Here is an incredible connection extending back over 300 years that I found on the night of 16 February at https://twitter.com/Robinson_IP/status/1381010447709650957?t=iVnCYSwqJ1z7bfYz6uaB4g&s=19. Here is the source,1784, the young Henry had, for obscure reasons, married an 82 year old woman. Her first marriage had been in 1720 and was to an 80 year old who had served Cromwell before his death in 1658!"
https://www.charlesholloway.co.uk/2010/09/a-theory-of-relativity/: A man alive in 1999 heard a woman say in 1923 that her husband's first wife's first husband served Oliver Cromwell.
Here is the explanation from the article: "The setting for the article was 1999 but the remark was made in 1923 by a 91 year old who had been born in 1832. At the age of 16 she had married an 80 year old man named Henry. Sixty four years earlier, in
What do you think of this?
On Friday, November 25, 2022 at 10:50:51 PM UTC-5, Paulo Ricardo Canedo wrote:1784, the young Henry had, for obscure reasons, married an 82 year old woman. Her first marriage had been in 1720 and was to an 80 year old who had served Cromwell before his death in 1658!"
Here is an incredible connection extending back over 300 years that I found on the night of 16 February at https://twitter.com/Robinson_IP/status/1381010447709650957?t=iVnCYSwqJ1z7bfYz6uaB4g&s=19. Here is the source,
https://www.charlesholloway.co.uk/2010/09/a-theory-of-relativity/: A man alive in 1999 heard a woman say in 1923 that her husband's first wife's first husband served Oliver Cromwell.
Here is the explanation from the article: "The setting for the article was 1999 but the remark was made in 1923 by a 91 year old who had been born in 1832. At the age of 16 she had married an 80 year old man named Henry. Sixty four years earlier, in
widow of an American Civil War veteran died less than two years ago (https://www.military.com/military-life/last-widow-of-civil-war-soldier-just-died-101.html). One of the grandsons of 10th U.S. President John Tyler (b.1790) is still alive (another diedWhat do you think of this?It's a remarkable claim, not impossible but certainly unlikely to have been undocumented, so one wonders what the actual marriage records say. But it doesn't seem much less plausible than the stories of other notable last survivors. Notably, the last
-Elizabeth A
Certainly always good to see something which reminds us to be careful about using probabilities (or averages) to positively assert anything at all.anti war demonstrations in the 1960s, was brought up by his grandfather, who met Napoleon.
There is no such thing (strictly speaking about actual "things") as the average person, or the average anything else.
For what it is worth I shall add the example which recently came to me courtesy of bots and algorithms which knew what I would be interested in. The 20th century philosopher Bertrand Russell, who was young enough to have participated (as an old man) in
Here is an incredible connection extending back over 300 years that I found on the night of 16 February at https://twitter.com/Robinson_IP/status/1381010447709650957?t=iVnCYSwqJ1z7bfYz6uaB4g&s=19. Here is the source,1784, the young Henry had, for obscure reasons, married an 82 year old woman. Her first marriage had been in 1720 and was to an 80 year old who had served Cromwell before his death in 1658!"
https://www.charlesholloway.co.uk/2010/09/a-theory-of-relativity/: A man alive in 1999 heard a woman say in 1923 that her husband's first wife's first husband served Oliver Cromwell.
Here is the explanation from the article: "The setting for the article was 1999 but the remark was made in 1923 by a 91 year old who had been born in 1832. At the age of 16 she had married an 80 year old man named Henry. Sixty four years earlier, in
What do you think of this?Oops, a correction, I meant 16 November, not 16 February.
On Friday, November 25, 2022 at 10:50:51 PM UTC-5, Paulo Ricardo Canedo wrote:1784, the young Henry had, for obscure reasons, married an 82 year old woman. Her first marriage had been in 1720 and was to an 80 year old who had served Cromwell before his death in 1658!"
Here is an incredible connection extending back over 300 years that I found on the night of 16 February at https://twitter.com/Robinson_IP/status/1381010447709650957?t=iVnCYSwqJ1z7bfYz6uaB4g&s=19. Here is the source,
https://www.charlesholloway.co.uk/2010/09/a-theory-of-relativity/: A man alive in 1999 heard a woman say in 1923 that her husband's first wife's first husband served Oliver Cromwell.
Here is the explanation from the article: "The setting for the article was 1999 but the remark was made in 1923 by a 91 year old who had been born in 1832. At the age of 16 she had married an 80 year old man named Henry. Sixty four years earlier, in
widow of an American Civil War veteran died less than two years ago (https://www.military.com/military-life/last-widow-of-civil-war-soldier-just-died-101.html).What do you think of this?
It's a remarkable claim, not impossible but certainly unlikely to have been undocumented, so one wonders what the actual marriage records say. But it doesn't seem much less plausible than the stories of other notable last survivors. Notably, the last
On 27-Nov-22 1:58 AM, Elizabeth A wrote:1784, the young Henry had, for obscure reasons, married an 82 year old woman. Her first marriage had been in 1720 and was to an 80 year old who had served Cromwell before his death in 1658!"
On Friday, November 25, 2022 at 10:50:51 PM UTC-5, Paulo Ricardo Canedo wrote:
Here is an incredible connection extending back over 300 years that I found on the night of 16 February at https://twitter.com/Robinson_IP/status/1381010447709650957?t=iVnCYSwqJ1z7bfYz6uaB4g&s=19. Here is the source,
https://www.charlesholloway.co.uk/2010/09/a-theory-of-relativity/: A man alive in 1999 heard a woman say in 1923 that her husband's first wife's first husband served Oliver Cromwell.
Here is the explanation from the article: "The setting for the article was 1999 but the remark was made in 1923 by a 91 year old who had been born in 1832. At the age of 16 she had married an 80 year old man named Henry. Sixty four years earlier, in
widow of an American Civil War veteran died less than two years ago (https://www.military.com/military-life/last-widow-of-civil-war-soldier-just-died-101.html).What do you think of this?
It's a remarkable claim, not impossible but certainly unlikely to have been undocumented, so one wonders what the actual marriage records say. But it doesn't seem much less plausible than the stories of other notable last survivors. Notably, the last
Apparently four widows of Civil War veterans lived into the 21st
century, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War_widows_who_survived_into_the_21st_century.
Leaving aside the marital connections, which are not all equally
plausible and in any event not genealogical, the Cromwell story (with suspicious detail of ages/dates considering the "obscure reasons"
disclaimer for the unlikeliest link) represents 5 degrees of separation
over 400 years, between someone living in 1999 and someone born in 1599.
I wonder if this is especially rare. I can trace from myself (with some
time left to go yet) through 5 degrees over 362 years, to someone born
in 1660. Any advances on that?
Peter Stewart
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software. www.avg.com
On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 4:11:29 PM UTC-5, pss...@optusnet.com.au wrote:1784, the young Henry had, for obscure reasons, married an 82 year old woman. Her first marriage had been in 1720 and was to an 80 year old who had served Cromwell before his death in 1658!"
On 27-Nov-22 1:58 AM, Elizabeth A wrote:
On Friday, November 25, 2022 at 10:50:51 PM UTC-5, Paulo Ricardo Canedo wrote:
Here is an incredible connection extending back over 300 years that I found on the night of 16 February at https://twitter.com/Robinson_IP/status/1381010447709650957?t=iVnCYSwqJ1z7bfYz6uaB4g&s=19. Here is the source,
https://www.charlesholloway.co.uk/2010/09/a-theory-of-relativity/: A man alive in 1999 heard a woman say in 1923 that her husband's first wife's first husband served Oliver Cromwell.
Here is the explanation from the article: "The setting for the article was 1999 but the remark was made in 1923 by a 91 year old who had been born in 1832. At the age of 16 she had married an 80 year old man named Henry. Sixty four years earlier, in
widow of an American Civil War veteran died less than two years ago (https://www.military.com/military-life/last-widow-of-civil-war-soldier-just-died-101.html).What do you think of this?
It's a remarkable claim, not impossible but certainly unlikely to have been undocumented, so one wonders what the actual marriage records say. But it doesn't seem much less plausible than the stories of other notable last survivors. Notably, the last
Harris appeared on "I've Got a Secret" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDfQLKIMGHY), their secret being that they were the granddaughters of Revolutionary War veteran Simon Harris (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/8742482/simon-harris). Simon's widow'Apparently four widows of Civil War veterans lived into the 21st
century, see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War_widows_who_survived_into_the_21st_century.
Leaving aside the marital connections, which are not all equally
plausible and in any event not genealogical, the Cromwell story (with
suspicious detail of ages/dates considering the "obscure reasons"
disclaimer for the unlikeliest link) represents 5 degrees of separation
over 400 years, between someone living in 1999 and someone born in 1599.
I wonder if this is especially rare. I can trace from myself (with some
time left to go yet) through 5 degrees over 362 years, to someone born
in 1660. Any advances on that?
Peter Stewart
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com
I'm not aware of any specific 5-degree relationship with this great a timespan, but individual smaller connections suggest that a similar timespan is plausible, and even as you suggest not unheard of. For instance, in 1961 sisters Delia and Bertie
On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 4:11:29 PM UTC-5, pss...@optusnet.com.au wrote:in 1784, the young Henry had, for obscure reasons, married an 82 year old woman. Her first marriage had been in 1720 and was to an 80 year old who had served Cromwell before his death in 1658!"
On 27-Nov-22 1:58 AM, Elizabeth A wrote:
On Friday, November 25, 2022 at 10:50:51 PM UTC-5, Paulo Ricardo Canedo wrote:
Here is an incredible connection extending back over 300 years that I found on the night of 16 February at https://twitter.com/Robinson_IP/status/1381010447709650957?t=iVnCYSwqJ1z7bfYz6uaB4g&s=19. Here is the source,
https://www.charlesholloway.co.uk/2010/09/a-theory-of-relativity/: A man alive in 1999 heard a woman say in 1923 that her husband's first wife's first husband served Oliver Cromwell.
Here is the explanation from the article: "The setting for the article was 1999 but the remark was made in 1923 by a 91 year old who had been born in 1832. At the age of 16 she had married an 80 year old man named Henry. Sixty four years earlier,
What do you think of this?
It's a remarkable claim, not impossible but certainly unlikely to have been undocumented, so one wonders what the actual marriage records say.
But it doesn't seem much less plausible than the stories of other notable last survivors. Notably, the last widow of an American Civil War veteran died less than two years ago (https://www.military.com/military-life/last-widow-of-civil-war-soldier-just-died-101.html).
Harris appeared on "I've Got a Secret" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDfQLKIMGHY), their secret being that they were the granddaughters of Revolutionary War veteran Simon Harris (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/8742482/simon-harris). Simon's widow'Apparently four widows of Civil War veterans lived into the 21st
century, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War_widows_who_survived_into_the_21st_century.
Leaving aside the marital connections, which are not all equally
plausible and in any event not genealogical, the Cromwell story (with suspicious detail of ages/dates considering the "obscure reasons" disclaimer for the unlikeliest link) represents 5 degrees of separation over 400 years, between someone living in 1999 and someone born in 1599.
I wonder if this is especially rare. I can trace from myself (with some time left to go yet) through 5 degrees over 362 years, to someone born
in 1660. Any advances on that?
Peter Stewart
--I'm not aware of any specific 5-degree relationship with this great a timespan, but individual smaller connections suggest that a similar timespan is plausible, and even as you suggest not unheard of. For instance, in 1961 sisters Delia and Bertie
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software. www.avg.com
On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 12:12:55 PM UTC, Elizabeth A wrote:in 1784, the young Henry had, for obscure reasons, married an 82 year old woman. Her first marriage had been in 1720 and was to an 80 year old who had served Cromwell before his death in 1658!"
On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 4:11:29 PM UTC-5, pss...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
On 27-Nov-22 1:58 AM, Elizabeth A wrote:
On Friday, November 25, 2022 at 10:50:51 PM UTC-5, Paulo Ricardo Canedo wrote:
Here is an incredible connection extending back over 300 years that I found on the night of 16 February at https://twitter.com/Robinson_IP/status/1381010447709650957?t=iVnCYSwqJ1z7bfYz6uaB4g&s=19. Here is the source,
https://www.charlesholloway.co.uk/2010/09/a-theory-of-relativity/: A man alive in 1999 heard a woman say in 1923 that her husband's first wife's first husband served Oliver Cromwell.
Here is the explanation from the article: "The setting for the article was 1999 but the remark was made in 1923 by a 91 year old who had been born in 1832. At the age of 16 she had married an 80 year old man named Henry. Sixty four years earlier,
just-died-101.html).What do you think of this?
It's a remarkable claim, not impossible but certainly unlikely to have been undocumented, so one wonders what the actual marriage records say.
i guess that if they were documented the links would have been listed
But it doesn't seem much less plausible than the stories of other notable last survivors. Notably, the last widow of an American Civil War veteran died less than two years ago (https://www.military.com/military-life/last-widow-of-civil-war-soldier-
Harris appeared on "I've Got a Secret" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDfQLKIMGHY), their secret being that they were the granddaughters of Revolutionary War veteran Simon Harris (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/8742482/simon-harris). Simon's widow'Apparently four widows of Civil War veterans lived into the 21stI'm not aware of any specific 5-degree relationship with this great a timespan, but individual smaller connections suggest that a similar timespan is plausible, and even as you suggest not unheard of. For instance, in 1961 sisters Delia and Bertie
century, see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War_widows_who_survived_into_the_21st_century.
Leaving aside the marital connections, which are not all equally
plausible and in any event not genealogical, the Cromwell story (with
suspicious detail of ages/dates considering the "obscure reasons"
disclaimer for the unlikeliest link) represents 5 degrees of separation
over 400 years, between someone living in 1999 and someone born in 1599. >>>
I wonder if this is especially rare. I can trace from myself (with some
time left to go yet) through 5 degrees over 362 years, to someone born
in 1660. Any advances on that?
Peter Stewart
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com
thats pretty amazing, but in my own family I have a great great grandfather born 1816 whose youngest
daughter died in 1973 when my oldest sister was 4. i expect that sort of generation overlap is not so
uncommon but if say we take 1000 years away and found such a family relationship in 10th century
european aristocracies, I would probably wonder if it could be relied on. Sometimes if 1 family
member has a very extended lifespan [for the time] it can lead to unusual generational relationships.
I think Ramesses II lived so long that he outlived about 50 of his own sons and many grandchildren.
I dont think any of his descendants lived half as long.
On 28-Nov-22 11:03 AM, mike davis wrote:in 1784, the young Henry had, for obscure reasons, married an 82 year old woman. Her first marriage had been in 1720 and was to an 80 year old who had served Cromwell before his death in 1658!"
On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 12:12:55 PM UTC, Elizabeth A wrote:
On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 4:11:29 PM UTC-5, pss...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
On 27-Nov-22 1:58 AM, Elizabeth A wrote:
On Friday, November 25, 2022 at 10:50:51 PM UTC-5, Paulo Ricardo Canedo wrote:
Here is an incredible connection extending back over 300 years that I found on the night of 16 February at https://twitter.com/Robinson_IP/status/1381010447709650957?t=iVnCYSwqJ1z7bfYz6uaB4g&s=19. Here is the source,
https://www.charlesholloway.co.uk/2010/09/a-theory-of-relativity/: A man alive in 1999 heard a woman say in 1923 that her husband's first wife's first husband served Oliver Cromwell.
Here is the explanation from the article: "The setting for the article was 1999 but the remark was made in 1923 by a 91 year old who had been born in 1832. At the age of 16 she had married an 80 year old man named Henry. Sixty four years earlier,
just-died-101.html).What do you think of this?
It's a remarkable claim, not impossible but certainly unlikely to have been undocumented, so one wonders what the actual marriage records say.
i guess that if they were documented the links would have been listed
But it doesn't seem much less plausible than the stories of other notable last survivors. Notably, the last widow of an American Civil War veteran died less than two years ago (https://www.military.com/military-life/last-widow-of-civil-war-soldier-
Harris appeared on "I've Got a Secret" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDfQLKIMGHY), their secret being that they were the granddaughters of Revolutionary War veteran Simon Harris (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/8742482/simon-harris). Simon's widow'Apparently four widows of Civil War veterans lived into the 21stI'm not aware of any specific 5-degree relationship with this great a timespan, but individual smaller connections suggest that a similar timespan is plausible, and even as you suggest not unheard of. For instance, in 1961 sisters Delia and Bertie
century, see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War_widows_who_survived_into_the_21st_century.
Leaving aside the marital connections, which are not all equally
plausible and in any event not genealogical, the Cromwell story (with >>> suspicious detail of ages/dates considering the "obscure reasons"
disclaimer for the unlikeliest link) represents 5 degrees of separation >>> over 400 years, between someone living in 1999 and someone born in 1599. >>>
I wonder if this is especially rare. I can trace from myself (with some >>> time left to go yet) through 5 degrees over 362 years, to someone born >>> in 1660. Any advances on that?
Peter Stewart
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com
Supercentenarian Sarah Knauss, the third longest living person who died at 119, had one greatgreatgrandchild, read the last sentence at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Knauss#Personal_life.thats pretty amazing, but in my own family I have a great great grandfather born 1816 whose youngestBecoming a great-great-grandparent is fairly unusual even for
daughter died in 1973 when my oldest sister was 4. i expect that sort of generation overlap is not so
uncommon but if say we take 1000 years away and found such a family relationship in 10th century
european aristocracies, I would probably wonder if it could be relied on. Sometimes if 1 family
member has a very extended lifespan [for the time] it can lead to unusual generational relationships.
I think Ramesses II lived so long that he outlived about 50 of his own sons and many grandchildren.
I dont think any of his descendants lived half as long.
centenarians, I think - a great-uncle of mine who lived to a fortnight
short of 103 fell short on this score too, while others I recall from
recent knowledge also had only three generations in descent except for
one with a single 4th-generation infant.
The two most notable medieval examples that spring to mind are the
Guelph ancestor Adalberto Azzo II, who as far as is known at 100/101
years of age did not last long enough to see even a great-grandchild
born, and Oda the mother of Otto the Illustrious who reportedly survived
to 107 but overlapped by just a few years with great-grandchildren.
By the way, in my counting of separation degrees I did not mean to
exclude genealogical or marital links between people who knew each
other, as these are necessarily also social. The chain to the individual
I can trace personal connections to through 5 degrees, born in 1660,
goes through 2 genealogical and 3 non-genealogical links, with none by marriage.
Peter Stewart
Peter Stewart
On 27-Nov-22 1:58 AM, Elizabeth A wrote:1784, the young Henry had, for obscure reasons, married an 82 year old woman. Her first marriage had been in 1720 and was to an 80 year old who had served Cromwell before his death in 1658!"
On Friday, November 25, 2022 at 10:50:51 PM UTC-5, Paulo Ricardo Canedo wrote:
Here is an incredible connection extending back over 300 years that I found on the night of 16 February at https://twitter.com/Robinson_IP/status/1381010447709650957?t=iVnCYSwqJ1z7bfYz6uaB4g&s=19. Here is the source,
https://www.charlesholloway.co.uk/2010/09/a-theory-of-relativity/: A man alive in 1999 heard a woman say in 1923 that her husband's first wife's first husband served Oliver Cromwell.
Here is the explanation from the article: "The setting for the article was 1999 but the remark was made in 1923 by a 91 year old who had been born in 1832. At the age of 16 she had married an 80 year old man named Henry. Sixty four years earlier, in
widow of an American Civil War veteran died less than two years ago (https://www.military.com/military-life/last-widow-of-civil-war-soldier-just-died-101.html).What do you think of this?
It's a remarkable claim, not impossible but certainly unlikely to have been undocumented, so one wonders what the actual marriage records say. But it doesn't seem much less plausible than the stories of other notable last survivors. Notably, the last
Apparently four widows of Civil War veterans lived into the 21stI asked Todd about this off list on 17 November and he told me that a 16 year old boy marrying a 82 year old woman was indeed quite odd and had probably been an inheritance grab by his family. He said that it was too bad that we didn't have specific
century, see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War_widows_who_survived_into_the_21st_century.
Leaving aside the marital connections, which are not all equally
plausible and in any event not genealogical, the Cromwell story (with suspicious detail of ages/dates considering the "obscure reasons"
disclaimer for the unlikeliest link) represents 5 degrees of separation
over 400 years, between someone living in 1999 and someone born in 1599.
I wonder if this is especially rare. I can trace from myself (with some
time left to go yet) through 5 degrees over 362 years, to someone born
in 1660. Any advances on that?
Peter Stewart
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software. www.avg.com
A segunda-feira, 28 de novembro de 2022 à(s) 00:44:53 UTC, pss...@optusnet.com.au escreveu:in 1784, the young Henry had, for obscure reasons, married an 82 year old woman. Her first marriage had been in 1720 and was to an 80 year old who had served Cromwell before his death in 1658!"
On 28-Nov-22 11:03 AM, mike davis wrote:
On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 12:12:55 PM UTC, Elizabeth A wrote:
On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 4:11:29 PM UTC-5, pss...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
On 27-Nov-22 1:58 AM, Elizabeth A wrote:
On Friday, November 25, 2022 at 10:50:51 PM UTC-5, Paulo Ricardo Canedo wrote:
Here is an incredible connection extending back over 300 years that I found on the night of 16 February at https://twitter.com/Robinson_IP/status/1381010447709650957?t=iVnCYSwqJ1z7bfYz6uaB4g&s=19. Here is the source,
https://www.charlesholloway.co.uk/2010/09/a-theory-of-relativity/: A man alive in 1999 heard a woman say in 1923 that her husband's first wife's first husband served Oliver Cromwell.
Here is the explanation from the article: "The setting for the article was 1999 but the remark was made in 1923 by a 91 year old who had been born in 1832. At the age of 16 she had married an 80 year old man named Henry. Sixty four years earlier,
just-died-101.html).What do you think of this?
It's a remarkable claim, not impossible but certainly unlikely to have been undocumented, so one wonders what the actual marriage records say.
i guess that if they were documented the links would have been listed
But it doesn't seem much less plausible than the stories of other notable last survivors. Notably, the last widow of an American Civil War veteran died less than two years ago (https://www.military.com/military-life/last-widow-of-civil-war-soldier-
Harris appeared on "I've Got a Secret" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDfQLKIMGHY), their secret being that they were the granddaughters of Revolutionary War veteran Simon Harris (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/8742482/simon-harris). Simon's widow'Apparently four widows of Civil War veterans lived into the 21stI'm not aware of any specific 5-degree relationship with this great a timespan, but individual smaller connections suggest that a similar timespan is plausible, and even as you suggest not unheard of. For instance, in 1961 sisters Delia and Bertie
century, see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War_widows_who_survived_into_the_21st_century.
Leaving aside the marital connections, which are not all equally
plausible and in any event not genealogical, the Cromwell story (with >>>>> suspicious detail of ages/dates considering the "obscure reasons"
disclaimer for the unlikeliest link) represents 5 degrees of separation >>>>> over 400 years, between someone living in 1999 and someone born in 1599. >>>>>
I wonder if this is especially rare. I can trace from myself (with some >>>>> time left to go yet) through 5 degrees over 362 years, to someone born >>>>> in 1660. Any advances on that?
Peter Stewart
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com
Supercentenarian Sarah Knauss, the third longest living person who died at 119, had one greatgreatgrandchild, read the last sentence at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Knauss#Personal_life.Becoming a great-great-grandparent is fairly unusual even for
thats pretty amazing, but in my own family I have a great great grandfather born 1816 whose youngest
daughter died in 1973 when my oldest sister was 4. i expect that sort of generation overlap is not so
uncommon but if say we take 1000 years away and found such a family relationship in 10th century
european aristocracies, I would probably wonder if it could be relied on. Sometimes if 1 family
member has a very extended lifespan [for the time] it can lead to unusual generational relationships.
I think Ramesses II lived so long that he outlived about 50 of his own sons and many grandchildren.
I dont think any of his descendants lived half as long.
centenarians, I think - a great-uncle of mine who lived to a fortnight
short of 103 fell short on this score too, while others I recall from
recent knowledge also had only three generations in descent except for
one with a single 4th-generation infant.
The two most notable medieval examples that spring to mind are the
Guelph ancestor Adalberto Azzo II, who as far as is known at 100/101
years of age did not last long enough to see even a great-grandchild
born, and Oda the mother of Otto the Illustrious who reportedly survived
to 107 but overlapped by just a few years with great-grandchildren.
By the way, in my counting of separation degrees I did not mean to
exclude genealogical or marital links between people who knew each
other, as these are necessarily also social. The chain to the individual
I can trace personal connections to through 5 degrees, born in 1660,
goes through 2 genealogical and 3 non-genealogical links, with none by
marriage.
Peter Stewart
Peter Stewart
On 28-Nov-22 3:33 PM, Paulo Ricardo Canedo wrote:earlier, in 1784, the young Henry had, for obscure reasons, married an 82 year old woman. Her first marriage had been in 1720 and was to an 80 year old who had served Cromwell before his death in 1658!"
A segunda-feira, 28 de novembro de 2022 à(s) 00:44:53 UTC, pss...@optusnet.com.au escreveu:
On 28-Nov-22 11:03 AM, mike davis wrote:
On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 12:12:55 PM UTC, Elizabeth A wrote:
On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 4:11:29 PM UTC-5, pss...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
On 27-Nov-22 1:58 AM, Elizabeth A wrote:
On Friday, November 25, 2022 at 10:50:51 PM UTC-5, Paulo Ricardo Canedo wrote:
Here is an incredible connection extending back over 300 years that I found on the night of 16 February at https://twitter.com/Robinson_IP/status/1381010447709650957?t=iVnCYSwqJ1z7bfYz6uaB4g&s=19. Here is the source,
https://www.charlesholloway.co.uk/2010/09/a-theory-of-relativity/: A man alive in 1999 heard a woman say in 1923 that her husband's first wife's first husband served Oliver Cromwell.
Here is the explanation from the article: "The setting for the article was 1999 but the remark was made in 1923 by a 91 year old who had been born in 1832. At the age of 16 she had married an 80 year old man named Henry. Sixty four years
just-died-101.html).What do you think of this?
It's a remarkable claim, not impossible but certainly unlikely to have been undocumented, so one wonders what the actual marriage records say.
i guess that if they were documented the links would have been listed >>>
But it doesn't seem much less plausible than the stories of other notable last survivors. Notably, the last widow of an American Civil War veteran died less than two years ago (https://www.military.com/military-life/last-widow-of-civil-war-soldier-
Harris appeared on "I've Got a Secret" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDfQLKIMGHY), their secret being that they were the granddaughters of Revolutionary War veteran Simon Harris (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/8742482/simon-harris). Simon's widow'Apparently four widows of Civil War veterans lived into the 21stI'm not aware of any specific 5-degree relationship with this great a timespan, but individual smaller connections suggest that a similar timespan is plausible, and even as you suggest not unheard of. For instance, in 1961 sisters Delia and Bertie
century, see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War_widows_who_survived_into_the_21st_century.
Leaving aside the marital connections, which are not all equally
plausible and in any event not genealogical, the Cromwell story (with >>>>> suspicious detail of ages/dates considering the "obscure reasons" >>>>> disclaimer for the unlikeliest link) represents 5 degrees of separation
over 400 years, between someone living in 1999 and someone born in 1599.
I wonder if this is especially rare. I can trace from myself (with some
time left to go yet) through 5 degrees over 362 years, to someone born >>>>> in 1660. Any advances on that?
Peter Stewart
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software. >>>>> www.avg.com
You have omitted a generation from her descendants - according to the wikipedia page, 10 months before she died the lady was photographed withSupercentenarian Sarah Knauss, the third longest living person who died at 119, had one greatgreatgrandchild, read the last sentence at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Knauss#Personal_life.Becoming a great-great-grandparent is fairly unusual even for
thats pretty amazing, but in my own family I have a great great grandfather born 1816 whose youngest
daughter died in 1973 when my oldest sister was 4. i expect that sort of generation overlap is not so
uncommon but if say we take 1000 years away and found such a family relationship in 10th century
european aristocracies, I would probably wonder if it could be relied on. Sometimes if 1 family
member has a very extended lifespan [for the time] it can lead to unusual generational relationships.
I think Ramesses II lived so long that he outlived about 50 of his own sons and many grandchildren.
I dont think any of his descendants lived half as long.
centenarians, I think - a great-uncle of mine who lived to a fortnight
short of 103 fell short on this score too, while others I recall from
recent knowledge also had only three generations in descent except for
one with a single 4th-generation infant.
The two most notable medieval examples that spring to mind are the
Guelph ancestor Adalberto Azzo II, who as far as is known at 100/101
years of age did not last long enough to see even a great-grandchild
born, and Oda the mother of Otto the Illustrious who reportedly survived >> to 107 but overlapped by just a few years with great-grandchildren.
By the way, in my counting of separation degrees I did not mean to
exclude genealogical or marital links between people who knew each
other, as these are necessarily also social. The chain to the individual >> I can trace personal connections to through 5 degrees, born in 1660,
goes through 2 genealogical and 3 non-genealogical links, with none by
marriage.
Peter Stewart
Peter Stewart
a "newborn great-great-great grandchild".
Peter Stewart
On 28-Nov-22 11:03 AM, mike davis wrote:in 1784, the young Henry had, for obscure reasons, married an 82 year old woman. Her first marriage had been in 1720 and was to an 80 year old who had served Cromwell before his death in 1658!"
On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 12:12:55 PM UTC, Elizabeth A wrote:
On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 4:11:29 PM UTC-5, pss...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
On 27-Nov-22 1:58 AM, Elizabeth A wrote:
On Friday, November 25, 2022 at 10:50:51 PM UTC-5, Paulo Ricardo Canedo wrote:
Here is an incredible connection extending back over 300 years that I found on the night of 16 February at https://twitter.com/Robinson_IP/status/1381010447709650957?t=iVnCYSwqJ1z7bfYz6uaB4g&s=19. Here is the source,
https://www.charlesholloway.co.uk/2010/09/a-theory-of-relativity/: A man alive in 1999 heard a woman say in 1923 that her husband's first wife's first husband served Oliver Cromwell.
Here is the explanation from the article: "The setting for the article was 1999 but the remark was made in 1923 by a 91 year old who had been born in 1832. At the age of 16 she had married an 80 year old man named Henry. Sixty four years earlier,
just-died-101.html).What do you think of this?
It's a remarkable claim, not impossible but certainly unlikely to have been undocumented, so one wonders what the actual marriage records say.
i guess that if they were documented the links would have been listed
But it doesn't seem much less plausible than the stories of other notable last survivors. Notably, the last widow of an American Civil War veteran died less than two years ago (https://www.military.com/military-life/last-widow-of-civil-war-soldier-
Harris appeared on "I've Got a Secret" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDfQLKIMGHY), their secret being that they were the granddaughters of Revolutionary War veteran Simon Harris (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/8742482/simon-harris). Simon's widow'Apparently four widows of Civil War veterans lived into the 21stI'm not aware of any specific 5-degree relationship with this great a timespan, but individual smaller connections suggest that a similar timespan is plausible, and even as you suggest not unheard of. For instance, in 1961 sisters Delia and Bertie
century, see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War_widows_who_survived_into_the_21st_century.
Leaving aside the marital connections, which are not all equally
plausible and in any event not genealogical, the Cromwell story (with >>> suspicious detail of ages/dates considering the "obscure reasons"
disclaimer for the unlikeliest link) represents 5 degrees of separation >>> over 400 years, between someone living in 1999 and someone born in 1599. >>>
I wonder if this is especially rare. I can trace from myself (with some >>> time left to go yet) through 5 degrees over 362 years, to someone born >>> in 1660. Any advances on that?
Peter Stewart
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com
This ia the Guiness World Record for number of generations alive at the same time:thats pretty amazing, but in my own family I have a great great grandfather born 1816 whose youngestBecoming a great-great-grandparent is fairly unusual even for
daughter died in 1973 when my oldest sister was 4. i expect that sort of generation overlap is not so
uncommon but if say we take 1000 years away and found such a family relationship in 10th century
european aristocracies, I would probably wonder if it could be relied on. Sometimes if 1 family
member has a very extended lifespan [for the time] it can lead to unusual generational relationships.
I think Ramesses II lived so long that he outlived about 50 of his own sons and many grandchildren.
I dont think any of his descendants lived half as long.
centenarians, I think - a great-uncle of mine who lived to a fortnight
short of 103 fell short on this score too, while others I recall from
recent knowledge also had only three generations in descent except for
one with a single 4th-generation infant.
The two most notable medieval examples that spring to mind are the
Guelph ancestor Adalberto Azzo II, who as far as is known at 100/101
years of age did not last long enough to see even a great-grandchild
born, and Oda the mother of Otto the Illustrious who reportedly survived
to 107 but overlapped by just a few years with great-grandchildren.
By the way, in my counting of separation degrees I did not mean to
exclude genealogical or marital links between people who knew each
other, as these are necessarily also social. The chain to the individual
I can trace personal connections to through 5 degrees, born in 1660,
goes through 2 genealogical and 3 non-genealogical links, with none by marriage.
Peter Stewart
Peter Stewart
On 28-Nov-22 3:33 PM, Paulo Ricardo Canedo wrote:earlier, in 1784, the young Henry had, for obscure reasons, married an 82 year old woman. Her first marriage had been in 1720 and was to an 80 year old who had served Cromwell before his death in 1658!"
A segunda-feira, 28 de novembro de 2022 à(s) 00:44:53 UTC, pss...@optusnet.com.au escreveu:
On 28-Nov-22 11:03 AM, mike davis wrote:
On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 12:12:55 PM UTC, Elizabeth A wrote:
On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 4:11:29 PM UTC-5, pss...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
On 27-Nov-22 1:58 AM, Elizabeth A wrote:
On Friday, November 25, 2022 at 10:50:51 PM UTC-5, Paulo Ricardo Canedo wrote:
Here is an incredible connection extending back over 300 years that I found on the night of 16 February at https://twitter.com/Robinson_IP/status/1381010447709650957?t=iVnCYSwqJ1z7bfYz6uaB4g&s=19. Here is the source,
https://www.charlesholloway.co.uk/2010/09/a-theory-of-relativity/: A man alive in 1999 heard a woman say in 1923 that her husband's first wife's first husband served Oliver Cromwell.
Here is the explanation from the article: "The setting for the article was 1999 but the remark was made in 1923 by a 91 year old who had been born in 1832. At the age of 16 she had married an 80 year old man named Henry. Sixty four years
just-died-101.html).What do you think of this?
It's a remarkable claim, not impossible but certainly unlikely to have been undocumented, so one wonders what the actual marriage records say.
i guess that if they were documented the links would have been listed >>>
But it doesn't seem much less plausible than the stories of other notable last survivors. Notably, the last widow of an American Civil War veteran died less than two years ago (https://www.military.com/military-life/last-widow-of-civil-war-soldier-
Harris appeared on "I've Got a Secret" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDfQLKIMGHY), their secret being that they were the granddaughters of Revolutionary War veteran Simon Harris (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/8742482/simon-harris). Simon's widow'Apparently four widows of Civil War veterans lived into the 21stI'm not aware of any specific 5-degree relationship with this great a timespan, but individual smaller connections suggest that a similar timespan is plausible, and even as you suggest not unheard of. For instance, in 1961 sisters Delia and Bertie
century, see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War_widows_who_survived_into_the_21st_century.
Leaving aside the marital connections, which are not all equally
plausible and in any event not genealogical, the Cromwell story (with >>>>> suspicious detail of ages/dates considering the "obscure reasons" >>>>> disclaimer for the unlikeliest link) represents 5 degrees of separation
over 400 years, between someone living in 1999 and someone born in 1599.
I wonder if this is especially rare. I can trace from myself (with some
time left to go yet) through 5 degrees over 362 years, to someone born >>>>> in 1660. Any advances on that?
Peter Stewart
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software. >>>>> www.avg.com
Thanks for the correction, Peter. It's better than I thought.You have omitted a generation from her descendants - according to the wikipedia page, 10 months before she died the lady was photographed withSupercentenarian Sarah Knauss, the third longest living person who died at 119, had one greatgreatgrandchild, read the last sentence at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarah_Knauss#Personal_life.Becoming a great-great-grandparent is fairly unusual even for
thats pretty amazing, but in my own family I have a great great grandfather born 1816 whose youngest
daughter died in 1973 when my oldest sister was 4. i expect that sort of generation overlap is not so
uncommon but if say we take 1000 years away and found such a family relationship in 10th century
european aristocracies, I would probably wonder if it could be relied on. Sometimes if 1 family
member has a very extended lifespan [for the time] it can lead to unusual generational relationships.
I think Ramesses II lived so long that he outlived about 50 of his own sons and many grandchildren.
I dont think any of his descendants lived half as long.
centenarians, I think - a great-uncle of mine who lived to a fortnight
short of 103 fell short on this score too, while others I recall from
recent knowledge also had only three generations in descent except for
one with a single 4th-generation infant.
The two most notable medieval examples that spring to mind are the
Guelph ancestor Adalberto Azzo II, who as far as is known at 100/101
years of age did not last long enough to see even a great-grandchild
born, and Oda the mother of Otto the Illustrious who reportedly survived >> to 107 but overlapped by just a few years with great-grandchildren.
By the way, in my counting of separation degrees I did not mean to
exclude genealogical or marital links between people who knew each
other, as these are necessarily also social. The chain to the individual >> I can trace personal connections to through 5 degrees, born in 1660,
goes through 2 genealogical and 3 non-genealogical links, with none by
marriage.
Peter Stewart
Peter Stewart
a "newborn great-great-great grandchild".
Peter Stewart
A segunda-feira, 28 de novembro de 2022 à(s) 00:44:53 UTC, pss...@optusnet.com.au escreveu:in 1784, the young Henry had, for obscure reasons, married an 82 year old woman. Her first marriage had been in 1720 and was to an 80 year old who had served Cromwell before his death in 1658!"
On 28-Nov-22 11:03 AM, mike davis wrote:
On Sunday, November 27, 2022 at 12:12:55 PM UTC, Elizabeth A wrote:
On Saturday, November 26, 2022 at 4:11:29 PM UTC-5, pss...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
On 27-Nov-22 1:58 AM, Elizabeth A wrote:
On Friday, November 25, 2022 at 10:50:51 PM UTC-5, Paulo Ricardo Canedo wrote:
Here is an incredible connection extending back over 300 years that I found on the night of 16 February at https://twitter.com/Robinson_IP/status/1381010447709650957?t=iVnCYSwqJ1z7bfYz6uaB4g&s=19. Here is the source,
https://www.charlesholloway.co.uk/2010/09/a-theory-of-relativity/: A man alive in 1999 heard a woman say in 1923 that her husband's first wife's first husband served Oliver Cromwell.
Here is the explanation from the article: "The setting for the article was 1999 but the remark was made in 1923 by a 91 year old who had been born in 1832. At the age of 16 she had married an 80 year old man named Henry. Sixty four years earlier,
just-died-101.html).What do you think of this?
It's a remarkable claim, not impossible but certainly unlikely to have been undocumented, so one wonders what the actual marriage records say.
i guess that if they were documented the links would have been listed
But it doesn't seem much less plausible than the stories of other notable last survivors. Notably, the last widow of an American Civil War veteran died less than two years ago (https://www.military.com/military-life/last-widow-of-civil-war-soldier-
Harris appeared on "I've Got a Secret" (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDfQLKIMGHY), their secret being that they were the granddaughters of Revolutionary War veteran Simon Harris (https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/8742482/simon-harris). Simon's widow'Apparently four widows of Civil War veterans lived into the 21stI'm not aware of any specific 5-degree relationship with this great a timespan, but individual smaller connections suggest that a similar timespan is plausible, and even as you suggest not unheard of. For instance, in 1961 sisters Delia and Bertie
century, see
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War_widows_who_survived_into_the_21st_century.
Leaving aside the marital connections, which are not all equally
plausible and in any event not genealogical, the Cromwell story (with >>>>> suspicious detail of ages/dates considering the "obscure reasons"
disclaimer for the unlikeliest link) represents 5 degrees of separation >>>>> over 400 years, between someone living in 1999 and someone born in 1599. >>>>>
I wonder if this is especially rare. I can trace from myself (with some >>>>> time left to go yet) through 5 degrees over 362 years, to someone born >>>>> in 1660. Any advances on that?
Peter Stewart
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com
great-granddaughter Betty Wolter (aged 52), her great-great granddaughter Debra Bollig (aged 33) and her great-great-great-granddaughter Lori Bollig (aged 15) and her great-great-great-great-grandson Christopher (one month)."This ia the Guiness World Record for number of generations alive at the same time:Becoming a great-great-grandparent is fairly unusual even for
thats pretty amazing, but in my own family I have a great great grandfather born 1816 whose youngest
daughter died in 1973 when my oldest sister was 4. i expect that sort of generation overlap is not so
uncommon but if say we take 1000 years away and found such a family relationship in 10th century
european aristocracies, I would probably wonder if it could be relied on. Sometimes if 1 family
member has a very extended lifespan [for the time] it can lead to unusual generational relationships.
I think Ramesses II lived so long that he outlived about 50 of his own sons and many grandchildren.
I dont think any of his descendants lived half as long.
centenarians, I think - a great-uncle of mine who lived to a fortnight
short of 103 fell short on this score too, while others I recall from
recent knowledge also had only three generations in descent except for
one with a single 4th-generation infant.
The two most notable medieval examples that spring to mind are the
Guelph ancestor Adalberto Azzo II, who as far as is known at 100/101
years of age did not last long enough to see even a great-grandchild
born, and Oda the mother of Otto the Illustrious who reportedly survived
to 107 but overlapped by just a few years with great-grandchildren.
By the way, in my counting of separation degrees I did not mean to
exclude genealogical or marital links between people who knew each
other, as these are necessarily also social. The chain to the individual
I can trace personal connections to through 5 degrees, born in 1660,
goes through 2 genealogical and 3 non-genealogical links, with none by
marriage.
Peter Stewart
Peter Stewart
https://gerontology.fandom.com/wiki/Augusta_Bunge_Pagel
"In February 1989, Augusta and her family was featured in Guinness World Records as the most living generations ever in a family: Augusta Bunge (aged 109), followed by her daughter Ella Sabin (aged 89), her granddaughter Anna Wendlandt (aged 70), her
I don't know of a medieval Jeanne Calment
living to 125 - no-one does - but of course there is no natural bar to
the possibility that her record may have been outdone in any period of history.
On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 1:56:37 PM UTC-8, pss...@optusnet.com.au wrote:bearing the same name, confused by the antiquarians - that or a corrupt or misinterpreted primary document.)
I don't know of a medieval Jeanne CalmentI do recall there being a Cheshire gentry pedigree with someone who supposedly lived to 140, but my memory is failing me as to which family that was. (Not that this is an actual example of an extremely old medieval person. Likely successive generations
living to 125 - no-one does - but of course there is no natural bar to
the possibility that her record may have been outdone in any period of history.
taf
On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 1:56:37 PM UTC-8, pss...@optusnet.com.au wrote:bearing the same name, confused by the antiquarians - that or a corrupt or misinterpreted primary document.)
I don't know of a medieval Jeanne Calment
living to 125 - no-one does - but of course there is no natural bar to
the possibility that her record may have been outdone in any period of
history.
I do recall there being a Cheshire gentry pedigree with someone who supposedly lived to 140, but my memory is failing me as to which family that was. (Not that this is an actual example of an extremely old medieval person. Likely successive generations
On 30-Nov-22 9:10 PM, taf wrote:
On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 1:56:37 PM UTC-8, pss...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
I don't know of a medieval Jeanne Calment
living to 125 - no-one does - but of course there is no natural bar to
the possibility that her record may have been outdone in any period of
history.
On 30-Nov-22 9:10 PM, taf wrote:generations bearing the same name, confused by the antiquarians - that or a corrupt or misinterpreted primary document.)
On Monday, November 28, 2022 at 1:56:37 PM UTC-8, pss...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
I don't know of a medieval Jeanne Calment
living to 125 - no-one does - but of course there is no natural bar to
the possibility that her record may have been outdone in any period of
history.
I do recall there being a Cheshire gentry pedigree with someone who supposedly lived to 140, but my memory is failing me as to which family that was. (Not that this is an actual example of an extremely old medieval person. Likely successive
This raises an issue that I don't recall having been discussed here - perhaps because it seems unresolvable as a general question - that is:
when is a claim so highly implausible that it may be considered self-evidently false.
If no human can be proved to have lived for 140 years, is there any
basis to entertain an idea that something phenomenal has even the
remotest possibility in a specific case? This is an extreme instance, of course, but medieval genealogy throws up many others that fall under
shadow of doubt.
Obviously no rational person today believes that Noah skippered the ark
at the age of 950, but many medieval people did and the world still has perhaps in raw numbers around as many crazed religionists now who place indoctrinated faith in what they wish to believe ahead of common sense
based on lived experience.
Documented or circumstantial evidence still needs to be analysed in accordance with logical understanding, and since the education systems
of the developed world no longer aim as the first priority to stimulate unbiased critical thinking the productive study of medieval genealogy
may backslide in future.
Peter Stewart
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software. www.avg.com
Peter, Re: "...and since the education systems
of the developed world no longer aim as the first priority to stimulate unbiased critical thinking the productive study of medieval genealogy
may backslide in future."
This comment leapt out at me, the immediate genealogical issue aside. I'd never explicitly
connected today's state of runaway uncritical thinking with the study of medieval genealogy.
Thought provoking and sobering. I so value the discussions here not only for their
information but because of how carefully cases are made and conclusions are reached.
It's an education and a pleasure.
On 02-Dec-22 5:06 AM, Jinny Wallerstedt/Girl 57 wrote:My hope for medieval genealogy in the info age: may all influencers be educated.
Peter, Re: "...and since the education systems
of the developed world no longer aim as the first priority to stimulate unbiased critical thinking the productive study of medieval genealogy
may backslide in future."
This comment leapt out at me, the immediate genealogical issue aside. I'd never explicitlyRecent academic work that has a focus on medieval genealogy shows a
connected today's state of runaway uncritical thinking with the study of medieval genealogy.
Thought provoking and sobering. I so value the discussions here not only for their
information but because of how carefully cases are made and conclusions are reached.
It's an education and a pleasure.
tendency to the pursuit of novelty and possibility from the available
scraps of evidence over careful and thorough investigation of what is
and is not verifiable. This is hardly surprising, since the people doing
the increasingly silly research in this field tend to have been trained rather than educated - easier for teachers and examiners, more
impressive for heedless parents, so of course they take the line of
least resistance and over a couple of generations the bottom falls out
of scholastic standards.
It is no accident that the most successful con-artist in history - a
deeply ignorant, madly dishonest and extremely foolish but very crafty
man - reached the peak achievement of the US presidency in 2016 due to a population that had been largely infantilised and stupefied in schools
and colleges over 30 years. Troubled adjustment to change is a constant
in modern history: the beginning of the information age has reduced the
need for young heads to be crammed with knowledge, but educators failed
to realise this increased the need for critical thinking to assess data
or even to work out where to find reliable news. Hence Q-Anon, Brexit, celebrity worship and countless other idiocies and delinquencies in
current public life and culture.
Peter Stewart
--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software. www.avg.com
On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 4:22:29 PM UTC-5, pss...@optusnet.com.au wrote:...
On 02-Dec-22 5:06 AM, Jinny Wallerstedt/Girl 57 wrote:
...Thought provoking and sobering. I so value the discussions here not only for their
information but because of how carefully cases are made and conclusions are reached.
It's an education and a pleasure.
My hope for medieval genealogy in the info age: may all influencers be educated.I very much agree with both of your statements, Jinny!
On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 5:42:12 PM UTC-5, Jinny Wallerstedt/Girl 57 wrote:Look Up O World_ (Boston: Bruce Humphries, Inc. and Toronto: Ryerton Press, 1948), 133-149). The author, a descendant of John and Elizabeth, was born in 1866 in Milwaukee, WI, where his father had been a partner of P. D. Amour in a grain business. Mr.
On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 4:22:29 PM UTC-5, pss...@optusnet.com.au wrote:...
On 02-Dec-22 5:06 AM, Jinny Wallerstedt/Girl 57 wrote:
...Thought provoking and sobering. I so value the discussions here not only for their
information but because of how carefully cases are made and conclusions are reached.
It's an education and a pleasure.
My hope for medieval genealogy in the info age: may all influencers be educated.I very much agree with both of your statements, Jinny!
While it's not related to medieval genealogy, I thought I'd mention a published chain of genealogical connections (and a story passed down) with similar timing to Peter's, but extending back a little further in time.
In 1948 one of my great great uncles published a book of poems. One of the poems is a ballad telling a story about an event in the lives of John Howland and Elizabeth Tilley, Mayflower passengers, "The Ballad of Elizabeth" (Herbert Delahaye Miles, _
The prelude to the ballad explains how the tale was passed to Mr. Miles:
"Today, in nineteen-forty-four,
I tell this tale of Plymouth lore;
I keep a pledge—alas, quite late—
A pledge of eighteen-seventy-eight;
To tell, and prove four tellings brought it
From Mayflower’s child to me, who sought it.
To show how slight Time’s bridge can be
Between that child and you and me!
Between, just three John Chipmans,—straight
From us to sixteen-twenty-eight!
Elizabeth Tilley Howland, child of the Mayflower voyage, in 1683, when she was aging, told this tale of her 1628 adventure to her grandson the second John Chipman, thirteen years old.
That John Chipman, born in 1670, passed her tale to his grandson, the fourth John Chipman, then eleven years old, in 1755, in Newport.
In turn he, born 1744, in 1826 passed the tale to his grandson, the sixth John Chipman of the line, then fourteen years old. He, the third one of his name pledged to pass the tale, born 1812, in 1878 told it to me,—to the boy of twelve, that was I!"
On 04-Dec-22 4:13 PM, Jan Wolfe wrote:
On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 5:42:12 PM UTC-5, Jinny
Wallerstedt/Girl 57 wrote:
On Thursday, December 1, 2022 at 4:22:29 PM UTC-5,...
pss...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
On 02-Dec-22 5:06 AM, Jinny Wallerstedt/Girl 57 wrote:
...Thought provoking and sobering. I so value the discussions here not
only for their
information but because of how carefully cases are made and
conclusions are reached.
It's an education and a pleasure.
My hope for medieval genealogy in the info age: may all influencersI very much agree with both of your statements, Jinny!
be educated.
While it's not related to medieval genealogy, I thought I'd mention a
published chain of genealogical connections (and a story passed down)
with similar timing to Peter's, but extending back a little further in
time.
In 1948 one of my great great uncles published a book of poems. One of
the poems is a ballad telling a story about an event in the lives of
John Howland and Elizabeth Tilley, Mayflower passengers, "The Ballad
of Elizabeth" (Herbert Delahaye Miles, _Look Up O World_ (Boston:
Bruce Humphries, Inc. and Toronto: Ryerton Press, 1948), 133-149). The
author, a descendant of John and Elizabeth, was born in 1866 in
Milwaukee, WI, where his father had been a partner of P. D. Amour in a
grain business. Mr. Miles died in Ashville, NC, in 1958. My parents,
brother and I visited him there in 1955 while on a family vacation. My
mother had read the book of poems aloud to us as we drove from Ohio to
North Carolina.
The prelude to the ballad explains how the tale was passed to Mr. Miles:
"Today, in nineteen-forty-four,
I tell this tale of Plymouth lore;
I keep a pledge—alas, quite late—
A pledge of eighteen-seventy-eight;
To tell, and prove four tellings brought it
From Mayflower’s child to me, who sought it.
To show how slight Time’s bridge can be
Between that child and you and me!
Between, just three John Chipmans,—straight
From us to sixteen-twenty-eight!
Elizabeth Tilley Howland, child of the Mayflower voyage, in 1683,
when she was aging, told this tale of her 1628 adventure to her
grandson the second John Chipman, thirteen years old.
That John Chipman, born in 1670, passed her tale to his grandson,
the fourth John Chipman, then eleven years old, in 1755, in Newport.
In turn he, born 1744, in 1826 passed the tale to his grandson,
the sixth John Chipman of the line, then fourteen years old. He, the
third one of his name pledged to pass the tale, born 1812, in 1878
told it to me,—to the boy of twelve, that was I!"
Splendid, Jan - to me the social connection through five degrees between
you today and Elizabeth Tilley born in 1607 is more interesting than a genealogical one through (I suppose) around 12 degrees, simply because
our personal interactions have more to so with our disposition and self-awareness than whatever we can know of our biological past.
Horace Walpole met all of the Hanoverian kings of England, a curiosity
that is probably unique and to me far more interesting than the
countless people in his time who were related to all of them.
On 05-Dec-22 8:42 AM, Peter Stewart wrote:
Splendid, Jan - to me the social connection through five degrees between you today and Elizabeth Tilley born in 1607 is more interesting than a genealogical one through (I suppose) around 12 degrees, simply because
our personal interactions have more to so with our disposition and self-awareness than whatever we can know of our biological past.
Horace Walpole met all of the Hanoverian kings of England, a curiosity that is probably unique and to me far more interesting than the
countless people in his time who were related to all of them.
I dare say your great-great-uncle the poet might have been as chuffed at
his connection through 4 social links to someone born a compatriot of
the living Shakespeare as at his more remote descent from Mayflower passengers.
Peter Stewart
On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 5:29:58 PM UTC-5, pss...@optusnet.com.au wrote:toto.lib.unca.edu/findingaids/mss/miles_herbert/miles_scrapbook_miles.htm).
On 05-Dec-22 8:42 AM, Peter Stewart wrote:
Splendid, Jan - to me the social connection through five degrees between you today and Elizabeth Tilley born in 1607 is more interesting than a genealogical one through (I suppose) around 12 degrees, simply because our personal interactions have more to so with our disposition and self-awareness than whatever we can know of our biological past.
Horace Walpole met all of the Hanoverian kings of England, a curiosity that is probably unique and to me far more interesting than the countless people in his time who were related to all of them.
I dare say your great-great-uncle the poet might have been as chuffed at his connection through 4 social links to someone born a compatriot ofThanks, Peter. I don't know which connections would have pleased Herbert Miles the most. His autobiographical scrapbook is preserved at the UNC Ashville library (http://toto.lib.unca.edu/findingaids/mss/miles_herbert/default_miles_herbert.htm, http://
the living Shakespeare as at his more remote descent from Mayflower passengers.
Peter Stewart
Mr. Miles met and interacted with many interesting people in his lifetime including U.S. presidents and titans of industry. He wrote _The science of currency and centralized banking; a study of publications recently issued by the National MonetaryCommission_ in 1911 (https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=coo1.ark:/13960/t0jt07p6s&view=1up&seq=5 and https://books.google.com/books?id=OEQuAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA1) and several thoughtful articles as well as poems.
On Monday, December 5, 2022 at 12:40:08 AM UTC-5, Jan Wolfe wrote:toto.lib.unca.edu/findingaids/mss/miles_herbert/miles_scrapbook_miles.htm).
On Sunday, December 4, 2022 at 5:29:58 PM UTC-5, pss...@optusnet.com.au wrote:
On 05-Dec-22 8:42 AM, Peter Stewart wrote:Thanks, Peter. I don't know which connections would have pleased Herbert Miles the most. His autobiographical scrapbook is preserved at the UNC Ashville library (http://toto.lib.unca.edu/findingaids/mss/miles_herbert/default_miles_herbert.htm, http://
Splendid, Jan - to me the social connection through five degrees between >>>> you today and Elizabeth Tilley born in 1607 is more interesting than a >>>> genealogical one through (I suppose) around 12 degrees, simply because >>>> our personal interactions have more to so with our disposition and
self-awareness than whatever we can know of our biological past.
Horace Walpole met all of the Hanoverian kings of England, a curiosity >>>> that is probably unique and to me far more interesting than the
countless people in his time who were related to all of them.
I dare say your great-great-uncle the poet might have been as chuffed at >>> his connection through 4 social links to someone born a compatriot of
the living Shakespeare as at his more remote descent from Mayflower
passengers.
Peter Stewart
Commission_ in 1911 (https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=coo1.ark:/13960/t0jt07p6s&view=1up&seq=5 and https://books.google.com/books?id=OEQuAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA1) and several thoughtful articles as well as poems.Mr. Miles met and interacted with many interesting people in his lifetime including U.S. presidents and titans of industry. He wrote _The science of currency and centralized banking; a study of publications recently issued by the National Monetary
Jan, thank you so much for sharing this. It's just wonderful. Mr. Miles sounds great...How many of us here would love to have such an uncle? And oh, the heaven of being read poetry on a car trip!
Jan, thank you so much for sharing this. It's just wonderful. Mr. Miles sounds great...How many of us here would love to have such an uncle? And oh, the heaven of being read poetry on a car trip!Thank you, Jinny. I'm happy that you enjoyed it. If you love poetry, you may be interested to know that one of Herbert Miles' nieces (daughter of his youngest brother) was UC Berkeley poet and professor Josephine Miles (https://www.poetryfoundation.org/
Here is an incredible connection extending back over 300 years that I found on the night of 16 February at https://twitter.com/Robinson_IP/status/1381010447709650957?t=iVnCYSwqJ1z7bfYz6uaB4g&s=19. Here is the source,1784, the young Henry had, for obscure reasons, married an 82 year old woman. Her first marriage had been in 1720 and was to an 80 year old who had served Cromwell before his death in 1658!"
https://www.charlesholloway.co.uk/2010/09/a-theory-of-relativity/: A man alive in 1999 heard a woman say in 1923 that her husband's first wife's first husband served Oliver Cromwell.
Here is the explanation from the article: "The setting for the article was 1999 but the remark was made in 1923 by a 91 year old who had been born in 1832. At the age of 16 she had married an 80 year old man named Henry. Sixty four years earlier, in
What do you think of this?Today, what I found searching for the quote "husband knew Oliver Cromwell" on Google Books has made me very skeptical of this story. https://www.google.com/search?q=%22husband+knew+Oliver+Cromwell%22&client=ms-android-xiaomi-rvo3&prmd=ivn&source=lnms&tbm=
A sábado, 26 de novembro de 2022 à(s) 03:50:51 UTC, Paulo Ricardo Canedo escreveu:1784, the young Henry had, for obscure reasons, married an 82 year old woman. Her first marriage had been in 1720 and was to an 80 year old who had served Cromwell before his death in 1658!"
Here is an incredible connection extending back over 300 years that I found on the night of 16 February at https://twitter.com/Robinson_IP/status/1381010447709650957?t=iVnCYSwqJ1z7bfYz6uaB4g&s=19. Here is the source,
https://www.charlesholloway.co.uk/2010/09/a-theory-of-relativity/: A man alive in 1999 heard a woman say in 1923 that her husband's first wife's first husband served Oliver Cromwell.
Here is the explanation from the article: "The setting for the article was 1999 but the remark was made in 1923 by a 91 year old who had been born in 1832. At the age of 16 she had married an 80 year old man named Henry. Sixty four years earlier, in
tbm=bks&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjftceYw-r7AhXAXaQEHdOWAgQQ_AUoBnoECAEQBg&biw=393&bih=736&dpr=2.75 shows two books by David Ovilgy, one from 1978 and the other from 1997. Both of them tell exactly the same story as the 1999 article by Simon Jenkins except that itWhat do you think of this?Today, what I found searching for the quote "husband knew Oliver Cromwell" on Google Books has made me very skeptical of this story. https://www.google.com/search?q=%22husband+knew+Oliver+Cromwell%22&client=ms-android-xiaomi-rvo3&prmd=ivn&source=lnms&
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