On 24/12/2023 04:38 pm, Simon Mason wrote:

ABOUT BLOODY TIME TOO!

======================
Drivers who leave their engines running when parked risk a £40 fine from next year.
Signs are now going up across the city ready for enforcement to start on Tuesday, 2 January.
Brighton and Hove councillors agreed to start issuing the fines last June to help tackle air pollution.
Drivers can be fined if their idling cars are in a parking bay, taxi rank and other parts of the road, but the new rule doesn’t apply to sitting in traffic.
The fine is reduced to £20 if paid within 10 days.
Councillor Tim Rowkins, chair of the City Environment, South Downs and The Sea Committee said: “Improving the city’s air quality is extremely important, especially for those who suffer from long term respiratory conditions like asthma and lung

disease.

“Enforcing engine idling is something we hope will deter motorists from releasing harmful emissions unnecessarily. We’re asking those parked up to switch off their engines and reduce air pollution.”
If an environmental enforcement officer witnesses a car idling, they’ll speak to the driver to let them know they’re committing an offence.
They’ll take the drivers details, including their registration number, and issue them with a fixed penalty notice.
If the driver refuses to give their details or drives off, the council will contact Sussex Police to collect the details and the FPN will be sent in the post.
An idling engine can produce up to twice as many exhaust emissions as an engine in motion. Exhaust emissions contain a range of air pollutants such as carbon monoxide, nitrogen dioxide, and particulate matter.
https://www.brightonandhovenews.org/2023/12/22/drivers-to-be-hit-with-40-fines-for-idling-engines/

Even in the depths of winter when drivers and other occupants need the
use of the vehicle's heating system?

Even in the height of summer when drivers and other occupants need the
use of the vehicle's air-conditioning system?

Has anyone on B&H Council got an ounce of common sense?

[That latter was rhetorical.]

Who, how and where was the chav on the chav-bike involved in this?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 27/12/2023 09:39 am, Simon Mason wrote:

On Sunday, December 24, 2023 at 4:38:26 PM UTC, Simon Mason wrote:

ABOUT BLOODY TIME TOO!

======================

David
5 days ago

Good point. It’s obviously going to take some intelligent enforcement.

I do regularly see vehicles with engines running and drivers having their lunch or having an extended chat on the phone, so I would like to see that change.
AND

martin J
4 days ago

PUBLIC HEALTH
Highway Code Rule 123: drivers must not leave a parked vehicle unattended with the engine running or leave a vehicle engine running unnecessarily while the vehicle is stationary on a public road.

See the RAC website under “Advice” on “why idling is so bad for the environment”

Note the operative word "unnecessarily".

It is perfectly legal to keep the engine running to keep the heater (in
winter) or air-conditioning (in summer) running for the comfort of the vehicle's occupants.

And who is/are the only judge/s of what is comfortable?

That's right: the vehicle's occupants.

No-one else. Certainly not a passing chav-cyclist.

[See what I did there? That's right: I got the thread back on-topic.]

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 27/12/2023 04:29 pm, Simon Mason, apparently talking to himself
again, said:

On Wednesday, December 27, 2023 at 9:39:44 AM UTC, Simon Mason, , apparently talking to himself again, said:

On Sunday, December 24, 2023 at 4:38:26 PM UTC, Simon Mason, apparently talking to himself again, said:

ABOUT BLOODY TIME TOO!

Ubiquitous
5 days ago

Yeah, pretty imbecilic of the council to think that you could do the tiniest thing for other road users. Instead of whinging about the fine, why not turn off your engine? Is that really too much to ask?

Yes, in many circumstances (see other posts nearby on the subjecyf cold
and hot weather - and also think about a vehicle which the driver only
*just* managed to get started because of a nearly-discharged battery),
it certainly IS too much to ask.

Only an eco-loony or a chav-on-a-bike could "think" otherwise.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 27/12/2023 05:32 pm, Simon Mason wrote:

Laura K
4 days ago

Aside from being bad for the environment, idling cars are an absolute nightmare for residents who live near taxi ranks and train stations. Will be great to see this enforced, not least to annoy the selfish commentators on here who think it’s

acceptable.

LOL!

For anyone living near a "train station" (you must mean a railway
station, this being the eastern side of the Atlantic) or an on-highway taxi-rank, the odd idling engine in very cold or very hot weather is the
LEAST of their worries.

Each to their own, but I would not dream of buying a house that near to
a *railway* station.

And for the avoidance of doubt, there is no traffic law which obliges
drivers to switch off their vehicle's engine while stationary. Not a
single one.

The law simply provides that the engine must be stopped if idling is not "necessary".

But as we have seen, there are PLENTY of circumstances where it IS
necessary.

If that were not the case, the law would have been worded differently.

But some idiots are so devoid of the ability to put themselves in the
shoes of others that they can't appreciate that. Apparently, even some highly-qualified lawyers such as yourself, M'Lud.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 27/12/2023 09:36 pm, Simon Mason wrote:

If you leave your car idling, you can be charged a £20 fixed penalty notice (FPN) by local authorities, for emission offences and stationary idling under The Road Traffic (Vehicle Emissions) (Fixed Penalty) (England) Regulations 2002. There is also

the potential for the fine to increase to £801.

TRANSLATION AND CORRECTION:

If you leave your car idling *unnecessarily*, you can be charged a £20
fixed penalty notice (FPN) by local authorities, for emission offences
and stationary idling under The Road Traffic (Vehicle Emissions) (Fixed Penalty) (England) Regulations 2002.

It is also important to note that fines would be imposed only if a motorist refuses to turn off their engine when asked by an authorised person to do so.

TRANSLATION AND CORRECTION:

It is also important to note that fines would be imposed only if a
motorist refuses to turn off their engine when asked by an authorised
person to do so *AND* if the engine is being run for an *unnecessary*
purpose. But obviously, keeping the vehicle occupants warm in winter or
cool in summer or for charging the battery of a vehicle whose battery is
not in an optimum state of charge are NOT unnecessary purposes.

Even if you are trying to defrost your windscreen, idling rules would still apply to you. If you leave your engine running and get out to scrape your windscreen, you can still be penalised for leaving your engine running.

So stay in the car and wait for the demisters to work.

It is always advisable to never leave your car idling in any situation, as it could result in your car being stolen away, which would affect your car insurance claim.

https://www.warrantydirect.co.uk/blog/engine-idling.html

Odd turn of phrase: "stolen away".

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 29/12/2023 06:59 pm, Simon Mason wrote:

QUOTE: Do you sit in your car with the engine running while you wait to collect your children after school?

Or, if your windscreen is covered in a thick layer of ice, you might be tempted to start your car, and then head back into the warmth of your house for a few minutes while it defrosts.

Whatever the weather, aside from the obvious risk of inviting an opportunist car thief*, leaving your car while it’s running could actually be breaking the law.

Not on my driveway.

Fines for idling
The problem isn’t just constrained to drivers idling to clear ice from their windscreens. Cars are often left idling for other reasons, such as waiting to pick someone up.
Leaving your car idling is looked upon dimly by the law. The Highway Code clearly states: "You must not leave a vehicle’s engine running unnecessarily while that vehicle is stationary on a public road."

Define "unnecessarily".

<.....long wait...>

Drivers can face a fine of upwards of £20 for leaving the engine on while in a stationary car; this can go up to £80 in some areas of London.
In fact, some councils have been pushing for tougher rules regarding idling, including instant on-the-spot fines. This was echoed by the government in June 2019, when the Transport Secretary at the time, Chris Grayling, announced a consultation

regarding tightening up the law in this area.

Notably, idling could be banned outside schools and hospitals, and other areas where people are especially sensitive to air pollution.
Are there exceptions?
There are some exceptions and qualifications to the law regarding idling.
The law only applies on public roads, meaning that you can legally leave the engine on if you’re on a private driveway or supermarket car park, for instance.
What’s so bad about idling?
Running engines emit fumes. And in some cases, cars can pump out almost twice the emissions while stationary as they do while in motion.
Emissions such as nitrogen oxide, sulphur dioxide and fine particulate matter are major contributors to poor air quality.
And exposure to these emissions can have serious negative effects on health. It’s estimated that man-made air pollution causes between 28,000 and 36,000 deaths in the UK every year, contributing to asthma, lung cancer and heart disease.
Although it’s difficult to separate different types of pollutants for the purposes of these figures, traffic emissions are doubtless a huge factor. According to Transport for London, over half of the capital’s air pollution is caused by polluting

vehicles.

Stuck in traffic
If you have a modern car, there’s a good chance it’s already fitted with a ‘stop-start’ system. As the engine cuts out when the car’s at a standstill, you need not worry about idling. Although manufacturers allow drivers to switch off these

systems manually, it’s advisable not to.

It won’t run your battery flat either, even if you’re caught for a long time in stationary traffic. The system will automatically restart the engine before the battery runs out.
If you have an older car without this system, the RAC recommends that drivers switch off their engines if they think they’ll be waiting for two minutes or more.
It’s recommended that you don’t do this too often if you have an older vehicle, however, or a battery that’s five years old or more. Your car may struggle if you switch the engine off and on again too frequently, especially in cold weather. ENDS

https://www.ageas.co.uk/solved/your-car/car-idling-is-it-illegal-to-leave-my-engine-running-in-cold-weather/

Where's the bit about the chavs on their chav-bikes?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 29/12/2023 08:06 pm, Simon Mason wrote:

QUOTE:
Under Regulation 98 of The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986, it is an offence to leave a vehicle engine running *unnecessarily* while that vehicle is stationary on the roadside. [my emphasis]

Define "unnecessarily".

Since 2002, under Regulation 12 of The Road Traffic (Vehicle Emissions) (Fixed Penalty) (England) Regulations 2002, Local Authorities have been given the powers to enforce the switching off of engines when vehicles are stationary on the roadside. This

enables local authorities to issue a Fixed Penalty Notice of (FPN) £40 to a driver who is committing an offence by idling their vehicle’s engine... "unnecessarily"...

Aside from enforcing idling by issuing FPNs, a council may choose to create a Traffic Management Order, under the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, so that traffic enforcement officers within the local authority are able to issue Penalty Charge Notices

(PCNs) of £80 for idling vehicles.

Local Authorities can find a useful toolkit with templates related to enforcement on the Resources page. Please note, all local authorities using these templates should consult with their relevant legal teams first. ENDS

https://idlingaction.london/idling-enforcement

Define "unnecessary" and its derivatives.

Sorry for the four syllable words.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 30/12/2023 08:45 am, Simon Mason wrote:

Reducing Nitrogen dioxide and particulate emissions from road transport is one of the most effective ways to improve air quality in urban areas. Motorists who leave their engines running when parked cause unnecessary, harmful air pollution.

The Road Traffic Act 1988 and the Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 deal with how vehicles can be used on a road.

Under this national legislation, you must not leave a parked vehicle unattended with the engine running or leave a vehicle engine running unnecessarily while that vehicle is stationary on a public road.

The Act and Regulations are enforced by the police. However, under the Road Traffic (Vehicle Emissions) (Fixed Penalty) (England) Regulations 2002, local authorities may enforce the “stationary idling offence” (which is a contravention of

regulation 98 Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 as it relates to the prevention of exhaust emissions).

This means that in a designated air quality management area (Newcastle's city centre is one), local authority officers have a discretionary power to request a driver to switch of the engine of a vehicle which is unnecessarily left running, and would be

in breach of the above regulations.

It is an offence to fail to comply with the request and a £20 penalty notice may be issued by the officer.

A person issued a penalty notice for engine idling (by the police or local authority) can either pay it, or elect for a magistrates' court to deal with the matter. The maximum fine for this offence in a magistrates' court is £1,000.

It is NOT generally illegal for a driver to keep a vehicle's engine
idling while the vehicle is stationary.

Anyone who claims that it is is either a liar or very stupid.

Or, in certain cases (no names, no pack-drill), both.

But what does any of it have to do with chavs who ride chav-bikes?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 30/12/2023 04:02 pm, Simon Mason wrote:

ANNOUNCEMENT FROM KHAN'S STASI:

**Unnecessary** engine idling is an offence under Section 42 of the Road Traffic Act (1988).

Hallelujah!

Now define "necessary" and "unnecessary".

If you're caught idling, you may receive a fixed penalty notice of £20. This is because engine idling is a significant source of air and noise pollution.
When you can idle

There are some exceptions when a driver is able to leave the engine running:

the vehicle is stationary in traffic
the engine needs to run to diagnose a fault
machinery on-board requires power from the engine to refrigerate fresh goods

That is not an inclusive of exhaustive list (hah! See what I did there?
:-) )

What we're doing

To combat unnecessary engine idling, we are carrying out an awareness raising campaign.

In high risk locations around the borough, we've installed:

anti-idling signs
anti-idling banners

We are also taking part in an anti-idling project, funded by the Mayor of London's Air Quality Fund.

Khan's STASI.

Report engine idling

In most cases, the best way to stop someone from idling their engine is by speaking to the person directly. They may not know that they are causing a disturbance.

If this doesn't work, you can report the issue to us by:

sending an email to our environmental health team
calling us on 0208 770 5000

You'll need to tell us:

about the problem
where the problem is (your address an the address of the problem)
your name
your contact details

We don't accept anonymous reports. This is because we need to be able to contact you to discuss the issue.

Your identity will be protected under data protection regulations. You should keep in mind that if your report goes to court your identity may need to be revealed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 30/12/2023 05:37 pm, Simon Mason wrote:

DRIVERS could land themselves with an £80 fine simply for waiting in their car with the engine running under a little-known Highway Code rule.
It is illegal to keep a car engine idling under Section 42 of the Road Traffic Act 1988.

It isn't. Guess what you're doing wrong?

The act enforces Rule 123 of the Highway Code, which says: "You must not leave a vehicle’s engine running unnecessarily while that vehicle is stationary on a public road."

The Highway Code is not law. Road Traffic Acts do not "enforce" the
Highway Code.

And you have (again) not defined "unnecessary" and its derivatives.

[Sorry for use of that four syllable word. Look it up.]

Breaking this law can result in a £20 fixed-penalty fine, rising to £40 if not paid within a timeframe, and local councils may add an additional fine on top of this.
In London, for example, emission measures will escalate this fine to £80. And you could get taken to court if the offence is deemed to be serious enough.
Car finance experts CarMoney has revealed the impact motorists reducing car idling could have on the environment and found that 10 seconds of idling wastes more fuel than restarting the engine.
Andrew Marshall of CarMoney said: “Now more than ever it is important to be aware of our impact on the environment.
"By minimising car idling on our daily commutes, school drop-offs and simply waiting in traffic, we can contribute less CO2 emissions.
“Aside from switching to electric vehicles or hybrid car models, motorists can be more mindful of their idling habits by switching off their engine if waiting for long periods of time."
RAC head of roads policy Nicholas Lyes said: "Councils already have the powers to deal with this problem, but few are currently doing so.
"Many of the drivers we questioned would like to see some firm action taken against offenders. This is no doubt needed to bring about a change in behaviour.
"You could liken the current situation with engine idling to that of taking your own carrier bags to the supermarket: everyone knew it was the right thing to do, but few of us did it until a compulsory charge was introduced.
"While the law is already in place for idling, enforcement is limited, if not non-existent.
"The presence of enforcement officers and ‘no engine idling’ signs, complete with penalties, must be the next step in making our urban environments better for everyone who lives, drives and works in them."

https://www.thesun.co.uk/motors/17898166/drivers-face-fine-engine-running/

You're an avid reader, then?

Thought so.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)