XPost: alt.politics.libertarian, alt.activism
On Wed, 1 May 2024 11:56:15 -0400, "68hx.1806" <
68hx.1805@g5t8x.net>
wrote:
On 5/1/24 5:53 AM, D wrote:
On Tue, 30 Apr 2024, 68hx.1806 wrote:
On 4/30/24 7:23 PM, Jamie Michelle wrote:
On Tue, 30 Apr 2024 17:22:57 -0400, "68hx.1806" <68hx.1805@g5t8x.net>
wrote:
Poe was an under-respected polymath indeed.
However an "insightful" theory is just a theory,
like Democritus and "atoms". Neither had a shred
of PROOF, no evidence and logical steps that would
lead to a CONCLUSION. It was pure speculation in
a sea of speculation.
And no, math does not prove the existence of 'gods'.
As for the universe being open or closed - the jury
is still out on that. There have been recent worries
that the markers used to judge expansion might not
be as reliable as first believed - plus some info
that the "dark energy" input may be "variable".
In any case, I'd suggest you move to the "religious"
groups.
God's Existence Is Proven by Several Mathematical Theorems within
Standard Physics
Um ... no. Get over it.
Sigh... math cannot in itself, prove anything in the world. That is why
we have science. God is a claim about something in the world, and as
such, we currently have no proof, and by definition, any proof, would
just result in god being reduced to something in the world.
Now... therefore, most define god as beyond the world, but being defined
as such, by definition, god can never be proven, since we by nature are
being _in_ the world, and science is a tool and methodology to describe
the world. So if you start the argument by assuming god being "beyond"
the world, it is impossible to prove him.
That is why I am agnostic in saying I don't know. I do lean heavily
towards there being no god however.
Last, but not least, all proofs of god, tend to start out assuming god,
hence they are all useless except for people who are already believers
as a kind of "intellectual scaffolding" for their belief.
GIGO ... Garbage IN = Garbage OUT. Reason and math
require solid axioms, and theists often start
assuming some castle in the sky is a solid axiom.
Like any language, math can be used to help find
organize and confirm facts - or be used to spin
episodes of Harry Potter and Hobbit adventures.
As usual, alas, 'the faithful' are only interested
in a sub-set of facts, a sub-set of reason, only
that which seems to confirm their beliefs. I've
learned not to argue with them very much, just
give them hints to where they can find better info.
They will have to go there on their own.
As to what the OP said about Poe - he really IS
worth looking into ... a remarkably bright and
intellectually diverse guy and in some ways ahead
of his time. BUT, as said, his cyclic Big Bang
theory was nothing but a notion - there were no
hard facts at the time, he did not reason it out
from evidence ... it just "seemed reasonable".
The field of physics does involve mathematical proofs of physical
theories, i.e., physical theorems, such as the Penrose-Hawking-Geroch Singularity Theorems which proved that the Big Bang initial
singularity necessarily exists per General Relativity and given
attractive gravity. Likewise, the Omega Point/Feynman-DeWitt-Weinberg
quantum gravity theory is a mathematical theorem if General Relativity
and Quantum Mechanics are correct. General Relativity and Quantum
Mechanics have been confirmed by every experiment to date, and so the
only way to avoid the Omega Point quantum gravity theorem is to reject empirical science. As Prof. Stephen Hawking wrote, "one cannot really
argue with a mathematical theorem." (From p. 67 of Stephen Hawking,
*The Illustrated A Brief History of Time* [New York, NY: Bantam Books,
1996; 1st ed., 1988].)
Further, due to Liouville's Theorem in complex analysis, it doesn't
matter what form of physics one resorts to, as any
physically-realistic cosmology (e.g., one capable of incorporating
Quantum Mechanics, since the complex number field is intrinsic to the mathematical formulations of Quantum Mechanics) must begin at an
initial singularity and end at a final singularity. (As Barrow and
Tipler wrote, "Initial and final cosmological curvature singularities
are required to avoid a universal action singularity." See John D.
Barrow and Frank J. Tipler, "Action principles in nature", *Nature*,
Vol. 331, No. 6151 [Jan. 7, 1988], pp. 31-34; see also Frank J.
Tipler, "The Structure of the Classical Cosmological Singularity", in
*Origin and Early History of the Universe: Proceedings of the 26th
Ličge International Astrophyscial Colloquium, July 1-4, 1986*
[Cointe-Ougree, Belgium: Universite de Liege, Institut
d'Astrophysique, 1987], pp. 339-359; "Discussion", pp. 360-361.)
The only way to avoid physicist and mathematician Prof. Frank J.
Tipler's Omega Point cosmology is to reject the known laws of physics
(i.e., the Second Law of Thermodynamics, General Relativity, and
Quantum Mechanics), and hence to reject empirical science: as these
physical laws have been confirmed by every experiment to date. That
is, there exists no rational reason for thinking that the Omega Point
cosmology is incorrect, and indeed, one must engage in extreme
irrationality in order to argue against the Omega Point cosmology. As
Prof. Stephen Hawking wrote, "one cannot really argue with a
mathematical theorem." (From p. 67 of Stephen Hawking, The Illustrated
A Brief History of Time [New York, NY: Bantam Books, 1996; 1st ed.,
1988].)
Additionally, we now have the quantum gravity Theory of Everything
(TOE) required by the known laws of physics and that correctly
describes and unifies all the forces in physics: of which inherently
produces the Omega Point cosmology. So here we have an additional high
degree of assurance that the Omega Point cosmology is correct.
Prof. Tipler's Omega Point cosmology has been extensively
peer-reviewed and published in a number of the world's leading physics
and science journals.[1] Even NASA itself has peer-reviewed his Omega
Point Theorem and found it correct according to the known physical
laws (see below). No refutation of it exists within the peer-reviewed scientific literature, or anywhere else for that matter.
Below are some of the peer-reviewed papers in physics and science
journals and proceedings wherein Prof. Tipler has published his Omega
Point cosmology.
* Frank J. Tipler, "Cosmological Limits on Computation", International
Journal of Theoretical Physics, Vol. 25, No. 6 (June 1986), pp.
617-661, doi:10.1007/BF00670475, bibcode: 1986IJTP...25..617T,
https://web.archive.org/web/20120823230026/http://theophysics.host56.com/pdf/Tipler-Cosmological-Limits-on-Computation.pdf
. First paper on the Omega Point cosmology.
* Frank J. Tipler, "The Sensorium of God: Newton and Absolute Space",
bibcode: 1988nnds.conf..215T, in G[eorge]. V. Coyne, M[ichal]. Heller
and J[ozef]. Zycinski (Eds.), "Message" by Franciszek Macharski,
Newton and the New Direction in Science: Proceedings of the Cracow
Conference, 25 to 28 May 1987 (Vatican City: Specola Vaticana, 1988),
pp. 215-228, LCCN 88162460, bibcode: 1988nnds.conf.....C,
https://web.archive.org/web/20120823230043/http://theophysics.host56.com/pdf/Tipler-Sensorium-of-God.pdf
.
* Frank J. Tipler, "The Omega Point Theory: A Model of an Evolving
God", in Robert J. Russell, William R. Stoeger and George V. Coyne
(Eds.), message by John Paul II, Physics, Philosophy, and Theology: A
Common Quest for Understanding (Vatican City: Vatican Observatory, 2nd
ed., 2005; orig. pub. 1988), pp. 313-331, ISBN 0268015775, LCCN
89203331, bibcode: 1988pptc.book.....R,
https://web.archive.org/web/20120823230038/http://theophysics.host56.com/pdf/Tipler-Omega-Point-Theory.pdf
.
* Frank J. Tipler, "The Anthropic Principle: A Primer for
Philosophers", in Arthur Fine and Jarrett Leplin (Eds.), PSA 1988:
Proceedings of the 1988 Biennial Meeting of the Philosophy of Science Association, Volume Two: Symposia and Invited Papers (East Lansing,
Mich.: Philosophy of Science Association, 1989), pp. 27-48, ISBN
091758628X,
https://web.archive.org/web/20120823230020/http://theophysics.host56.com/pdf/Tipler-Anthropic-Principle.pdf
.
* Frank J. Tipler, "The Omega Point as Eschaton: Answers to
Pannenberg's Questions for Scientists", Zygon: Journal of Religion &
Science, Vol. 24, No. 2 (June 1989), pp. 217-253, doi:10.1111/j.1467-9744.1989.tb01112.x. Republished as Chapter 7: "The
Omega Point as Eschaton: Answers to Pannenberg's Questions to
Scientists" in Carol Rausch Albright and Joel Haugen (Eds.), Beginning
with the End: God, Science, and Wolfhart Pannenberg (Chicago, Ill.:
Open Court Publishing Company, 1997), pp. 156-194, ISBN 0812693256,
LCCN 97000114,
https://web.archive.org/web/20160804171818/http://theophysics.host56.com/pdf/tipler-omega-point-as-eschaton.pdf
.
* Frank J. Tipler, "The ultimate fate of life in universes which
undergo inflation", Physics Letters B, Vol. 286, Nos. 1-2 (July 23,
1992), pp. 36-43, doi:10.1016/0370-2693(92)90155-W, bibcode: 1992PhLB..286...36T,
https://web.archive.org/web/20120823230031/http://theophysics.host56.com/pdf/Tipler-Life-in-universes-which-undergo-inflation.pdf
.
* Frank J. Tipler, "A New Condition Implying the Existence of a
Constant Mean Curvature Foliation", bibcode: 1993dgr2.conf..306T, in
B[ei]. L. Hu and T[ed]. A. Jacobson (Eds.), Directions in General
Relativity: Proceedings of the 1993 International Symposium, Maryland,
Volume 2: Papers in Honor of Dieter Brill (Cambridge, UK: Cambridge
University Press, 1993), pp. 306-315, ISBN 0521452678, bibcode: 1993dgr2.conf.....H,
https://web.archive.org/web/20120823230050/http://theophysics.host56.com/pdf/tipler-constant-mean-curvature-foliation.pdf
.
* Frank J. Tipler, "Ultrarelativistic Rockets and the Ultimate Future
of the Universe", NASA Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Workshop
Proceedings, National Aeronautics and Space Administration, Jan. 1999,
pp. 111-119; an invited paper in the proceedings of a conference held
at and sponsored by NASA Lewis Research Center, Cleveland, Ohio, Aug.
12-14, 1997; doi:2060/19990023204, Document ID: 19990023204, Report
Number: E-11429; NAS 1.55:208694; NASA/CP-1999-208694,
https://web.archive.org/web/20120823230148/http://theophysics.host56.com/pdf/tipler-ultrarelativistic-rockets.pdf
. Full proceedings volume:
https://web.archive.org/web/20100525230359/http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19990023204_1999021520.pdf
.
* Frank J. Tipler, "There Are No Limits To The Open Society", Critical Rationalist, Vol. 3, No. 2 (Sept. 23, 1998),
https://web.archive.org/web/20150819193439/http://www.tkpw.net/tcr/volume-03/number-02/v03n02.pdf
.
* Frank J. Tipler, Jessica Graber, Matthew McGinley, Joshua
Nichols-Barrer and Christopher Staecker, "Closed Universes With Black
Holes But No Event Horizons As a Solution to the Black Hole
Information Problem", arXiv:gr-qc/0003082, Mar. 20, 2000,
http://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0003082 . Published in Monthly Notices of
the Royal Astronomical Society, Vol. 379, No. 2 (Aug. 2007), pp.
629-640, doi:10.1111/j.1365-2966.2007.11895.x, bibcode:
2007MNRAS.379..629T,
https://megalodon.jp/2019-0920-0621-46/academic.oup.com/mnras/article-pdf/379/2/629/3385142/mnras0379-0629.pdf
.
* Frank J. Tipler, "The Ultimate Future of the Universe, Black Hole
Event Horizon Topologies, Holography, and the Value of the
Cosmological Constant", arXiv:astro-ph/0104011, Apr. 1, 2001,
http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0104011 . Published in J. Craig Wheeler
and Hugo Martel (Eds.), Relativistic Astrophysics: 20th Texas
Symposium, Austin, Texas, 10-15 December 2000 (Melville, NY: American
Institute of Physics, 2001), pp. 769-772, ISBN 0735400261, LCCN
2001094694, which is AIP Conference Proceedings, Vol. 586 (Oct. 15,
2001), doi:10.1063/1.1419654, bibcode: 2001AIPC..586.....W.
* Frank J. Tipler, "Intelligent life in cosmology", International
Journal of Astrobiology, Vol. 2, No. 2 (Apr. 2003), pp. 141-148, doi:10.1017/S1473550403001526, bibcode: 2003IJAsB...2..141T,
https://web.archive.org/web/20110712221042/http://theophysics.host56.com/pdf/tipler-intelligent-life-in-cosmology.pdf
. Also at arXiv:0704.0058, Mar. 31, 2007,
http://arxiv.org/abs/0704.0058 .
* F. J. Tipler, "The structure of the world from pure numbers",
Reports on Progress in Physics, Vol. 68, No. 4 (Apr. 2005), pp.
897-964, doi:10.1088/0034-4885/68/4/R04, bibcode: 2005RPPh...68..897T,
http://www.math.tulane.edu/~tipler/theoryofeverything.pdf . Also
released as "Feynman-Weinberg Quantum Gravity and the Extended
Standard Model as a Theory of Everything", arXiv:0704.3276, Apr. 24,
2007,
http://arxiv.org/abs/0704.3276 .
* Frank J. Tipler, "Inevitable Existence and Inevitable Goodness of
the Singularity", Journal of Consciousness Studies, Vol. 19, Nos. 1-2
(2012), pp. 183-193,
https://web.archive.org/web/20140812163252/http://www.pdf-archive.com/2013/09/29/tipler-existence-and-goodness-of-the-singularity/tipler-existence-and-goodness-of-the-singularity.pdf
.
Monthly Notices of the Royal Astronomical Society, in which the above
August 2007 paper was published, is one of the world's leading
peer-reviewed astrophysics journals.
Prof. Tipler's paper "Ultrarelativistic Rockets and the Ultimate
Future of the Universe" was an invited paper for a conference held at
and sponsored by NASA Lewis Research Center, so NASA itself has
peer-reviewed Tipler's Omega Point Theorem (peer-review is a standard
process for published proceedings papers; and again, Tipler's said
paper was an *invited* paper by NASA, as opposed to what are called
"poster papers").
Zygon is the world's leading peer-reviewed academic journal on science
and religion.
Out of 50 articles, Prof. Tipler's 2005 Reports on Progress in Physics paper--which presents the Omega Point/Feynman-DeWitt-Weinberg quantum gravity/Standard Model Theory of Everything (TOE)--was selected as one
of 12 for the "Highlights of 2005" accolade as "the very best articles published in Reports on Progress in Physics in 2005 [Vol. 68].
Articles were selected by the Editorial Board for their outstanding
reviews of the field. They all received the highest praise from our international referees and a high number of downloads from the journal Website." (See Richard Palmer [Publisher], "Highlights of 2005",
Reports on Progress in Physics website, ca. 2006,
https://archive.is/pKD3y ,
https://megalodon.jp/2013-1120-1334-44/archive.is/pKD3y .)
Reports on Progress in Physics is the leading journal of the Institute
of Physics, Britain's main professional body for physicists. Further,
Reports on Progress in Physics has a higher impact factor (according
to Journal Citation Reports) than Physical Review Letters, which is
the most prestigious American physics journal (one, incidently, which
Prof. Tipler has been published in more than once). A journal's impact
factor reflects the importance the science community places in that
journal in the sense of actually citing its papers in their own
papers.
-----
Note:
1. While there is a lot that gets published in physics journals that
is anti-reality and nonphysical (such as String Theory, which violates
the known laws of physics and has no experimental support whatsoever),
the reason such things are allowed to pass the peer-review process is
because the paradigm of assumptions which such papers are speaking to
has been made known, and within their operating paradigm none of the
referees could find anything crucially wrong with said papers. That
is, the paradigm itself may have nothing to do with reality, but the peer-reviewers could find nothing fundamentally wrong with such papers
within the operating assumptions of that paradigm. Whereas, e.g., the
operating paradigm of Prof. Tipler's 2005 Reports on Progress in
Physics paper and his other papers on the Omega Point Theorem is the
known laws of physics, i.e., our actual physical reality which has
been repeatedly confirmed by every experiment conducted to date. So
the professional physicists charged with refereeing these papers could
find nothing fundamentally wrong with them within their operating
paradigm, i.e., the known laws of physics.
----------------------------------------
Jamie Michelle
Author, under the nom de plume of James Redford, of The Physics of God
and the Quantum Gravity Theory of Everything: And Other Selected Works (Chisinau, Moldova: Eliva Press, 2021), 268 pp., ISBN-10: 1636482775,
ISBN-13: 9781636482774. See my curriculum vitę (ark:/13960/t6g19878v):
https://jamesredford.github.io/Redford-Curriculum-Vitae.pdf ,
https://archive.org/download/JamesRedford/Redford-Curriculum-Vitae.pdf
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