The Grinches described in the linked article specialize in decorations that have what they deem to be a religious motif.
I do believe, by the way, that Kwanzaa
decorations would pass muster for any school or school board that follows their example.
So would rainbow flags...
https://washingtonstand.com/news/bah-humbug-pa-school-districts-warns-bus-drivers-against-christmas-decorations
Excerpts:
On Friday, just over a week before Christmas, the Wallingford-Swarthmore school district in Delaware County,
Pennsylvania, issued a memo to school bus drivers saying, “If you have decorated your bus with anything specific
to the Christmas Holiday or any other decorations relating to a specific religion, please remove them immediately.”
The memo concludes, “In addition, employees are instructed not to wear clothing related to Christmas
or any other religious holiday.” According to the memo, school district leadership
“has been receiving complaints from parents concerning District employees displaying ‘Christmas’ themed decorations
and/or wearing clothing of the same nature.”
A note adds that the policy is not specific to school bus drivers but “APPLIES TO ALL DISTRICT EMPLOYEES.”
...
Joseph Backholm, FRC’s senior fellow for Biblical Worldview, told TWS that the ban on Christmas decorations
is “an issue of people in leadership who always follow rather than lead.” He said, “The school district apparently received a complaint from someone that a bus driver
was spreading too much Christmas cheer, and instead of telling that parent they encourage every bus driver to be as festive as possible,
they decided it was their job to protect the emotionally fragile.”
Although “Christmas” is named explicitly in the memo, Backholm noted that the inclusion
of “any other religious holiday” was “certainly done on the advice of their lawyers,
because it would be illegal to just ban Christmas displays and clothing.”
...
According to Fox 29 Philadelphia, the school district clarified Friday night that their intent was “not clear”
and reversed the ban on holiday decorations and clothing,
emphasizing instead a need for bus drivers to create “an inclusive environment.”
“The parents who want to remove the decorations should spend a week on the bus to see what kind of environment
their children and the bus drivers experience daily,” Kilgannon said. “Parents know that in many school districts bus discipline is nonexistent and enforcing any behavioral norm
is often punished — by just this kind of complaint. Taxpayers on the other hand
who have no kids in school have no idea that this kind of situation is funded by their generosity.”
[end of excerpts]
On Tuesday, December 19, 2023 at 8:37:14 PM UTC-5, Mark Isaak wrote:
On 12/19/23 1:50 PM, peter2...@gmail.com wrote:
The Grinches described in the linked article specialize in decorations that >>> have what they deem to be a religious motif.
I do believe, by the way, that Kwanzaa
decorations would pass muster for any school or school board that follows their example.
So would rainbow flags...
https://washingtonstand.com/news/bah-humbug-pa-school-districts-warns-bus-drivers-against-christmas-decorations
Excerpts:
On Friday, just over a week before Christmas, the Wallingford-Swarthmore school district in Delaware County,
Pennsylvania, issued a memo to school bus drivers saying, “If you have decorated your bus with anything specific
to the Christmas Holiday or any other decorations relating to a specific religion, please remove them immediately.”
The memo concludes, “In addition, employees are instructed not to wear clothing related to Christmas
or any other religious holiday.” According to the memo, school district leadership
“has been receiving complaints from parents concerning District employees displaying ‘Christmas’ themed decorations
and/or wearing clothing of the same nature.”
A note adds that the policy is not specific to school bus drivers but “APPLIES TO ALL DISTRICT EMPLOYEES.”
...
Joseph Backholm, FRC’s senior fellow for Biblical Worldview, told TWS that the ban on Christmas decorations
is “an issue of people in leadership who always follow rather than lead.”
He said, “The school district apparently received a complaint from someone that a bus driver
was spreading too much Christmas cheer, and instead of telling that parent >>> they encourage every bus driver to be as festive as possible,
they decided it was their job to protect the emotionally fragile.”
Although “Christmas” is named explicitly in the memo, Backholm noted that the inclusion
of “any other religious holiday” was “certainly done on the advice of their lawyers,
because it would be illegal to just ban Christmas displays and clothing.” >>>
...
According to Fox 29 Philadelphia, the school district clarified Friday night that their intent was “not clear”
and reversed the ban on holiday decorations and clothing,
emphasizing instead a need for bus drivers to create “an inclusive environment.”
“The parents who want to remove the decorations should spend a week on the bus to see what kind of environment
their children and the bus drivers experience daily,” Kilgannon said.
“Parents know that in many school districts bus discipline is nonexistent and enforcing any behavioral norm
is often punished — by just this kind of complaint. Taxpayers on the other hand
who have no kids in school have no idea that this kind of situation is funded by their generosity.”
[end of excerpts]
I'm a bit puzzled by your comment to all this, Mark.
Sounds like the War on Christmas waged by Republicans a few years ago to
make people angry enough to send them money.
For one thing, didn't you mean "claimed to exist" rather than "waged"?
For another, did you not notice how the school district rescinded their policy?
Or do you wish they had NOT rescinded their policy?
For yet another: you seem to be big on the 2-party system. Don't you think libertarians care about
freedom of religious expression?
I'm not happy about the 2-party system at all.
Just one reminder for now, because I want to get an early start tomorrow.
On the day after the 2016 election, I made the following "joke" in talk.origins:
"I have some good news and some bad news.
"The good news is that Clinton lost.
"The bad news is that Trump won."
On 12/21/23 7:40 PM, Mark Isaak wrote:
On 12/20/23 7:44 PM, peter2...@gmail.com wrote:The TRump-Russia connection has been pretty throughly discredited.
On Tuesday, December 19, 2023 at 8:37:14 PM UTC-5, Mark Isaak wrote:
On 12/19/23 1:50 PM, peter2...@gmail.com wrote:
The Grinches described in the linked article specialize in
decorations that
have what they deem to be a religious motif.
I do believe, by the way, that Kwanzaa
decorations would pass muster for any school or school board that
follows their example.
So would rainbow flags...
https://washingtonstand.com/news/bah-humbug-pa-school-districts-warns-bus-drivers-against-christmas-decorations
Excerpts:
On Friday, just over a week before Christmas, the
Wallingford-Swarthmore school district in Delaware County,
Pennsylvania, issued a memo to school bus drivers saying, “If you
have decorated your bus with anything specific
to the Christmas Holiday or any other decorations relating to a
specific religion, please remove them immediately.”
The memo concludes, “In addition, employees are instructed not to
wear clothing related to Christmas
or any other religious holiday.” According to the memo, school
district leadership
“has been receiving complaints from parents concerning District
employees displaying ‘Christmas’ themed decorations
and/or wearing clothing of the same nature.”
A note adds that the policy is not specific to school bus drivers
but “APPLIES TO ALL DISTRICT EMPLOYEES.”
...
Joseph Backholm, FRC’s senior fellow for Biblical Worldview, told
TWS that the ban on Christmas decorations
is “an issue of people in leadership who always follow rather than >>>>> lead.”
He said, “The school district apparently received a complaint from >>>>> someone that a bus driver
was spreading too much Christmas cheer, and instead of telling that
parent
they encourage every bus driver to be as festive as possible,
they decided it was their job to protect the emotionally fragile.” >>>>> Although “Christmas” is named explicitly in the memo, Backholm
noted that the inclusion
of “any other religious holiday” was “certainly done on the advice >>>>> of their lawyers,
because it would be illegal to just ban Christmas displays and
clothing.”
...
According to Fox 29 Philadelphia, the school district clarified
Friday night that their intent was “not clear”
and reversed the ban on holiday decorations and clothing,
emphasizing instead a need for bus drivers to create “an inclusive >>>>> environment.”
“The parents who want to remove the decorations should spend a week >>>>> on the bus to see what kind of environment
their children and the bus drivers experience daily,” Kilgannon said. >>>>> “Parents know that in many school districts bus discipline is
nonexistent and enforcing any behavioral norm
is often punished — by just this kind of complaint. Taxpayers on
the other hand
who have no kids in school have no idea that this kind of situation
is funded by their generosity.”
[end of excerpts]
I'm a bit puzzled by your comment to all this, Mark.
Sounds like the War on Christmas waged by Republicans a few years
ago to
make people angry enough to send them money.
For one thing, didn't you mean "claimed to exist" rather than "waged"?
No. The Republicans created the war out of nothing and were the only
significant actors in it.
For another, did you not notice how the school district rescinded
their policy?
Or do you wish they had NOT rescinded their policy?
Only after I made my (admittedly hasty) remark.
For yet another: you seem to be big on the 2-party system. Don't you
think libertarians care about
freedom of religious expression?
I'm not happy about the 2-party system at all.
Nor am I. But third parties with any significant power cannot survive
without major constitutional changes, so we are stuck with two.
Of course, third parties *can* exist by taking over one of the two
major ones. We have seen that happen as Trump mostly eliminated the
Republican Party and replaced it with a fascist party (and no doubt
will complete the job if elected).
Just one reminder for now, because I want to get an early start
tomorrow.
On the day after the 2016 election, I made the following "joke" in
talk.origins:
"I have some good news and some bad news.
"The good news is that Clinton lost.
"The bad news is that Trump won."
The ballot for the next election may say "Biden" and "Trump", but I
think it is really about whether American will be led by Harris or Putin.
IMO there won't be any good news coming out of the next election. Least bad is the best we can hope for.
On Thu, 21 Dec 2023 19:40:00 -0800, Mark Isaak <specimenNOSPAM@curioustaxon.omy.net> wrote:
[...]
The ballot for the next election may say "Biden" and "Trump", but I
think it is really about whether American will be led by Harris or Putin.
Like many other external onlookers, I find myself totally bewildered
as to why the Democrats seem willing to hand the next presidency back
to Trump. Are they really so feeble that nobody is willing to tell an 81-year-old guy whom the public has already judged too old, "Fair
play, Joe, you've done your bit, now it's time to let someone else
have a go "?
On Saturday, December 23, 2023 at 5:32:18 AM UTC-5, Martin Harran wrote:
On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 14:31:11 -0800, Mark Isaak
<specime...@curioustaxon.omy.net> wrote:
On 12/22/23 9:53 AM, Martin Harran wrote:In other words, they are too feeble.
On Thu, 21 Dec 2023 19:40:00 -0800, Mark Isaak
<specime...@curioustaxon.omy.net> wrote:
[...]
The ballot for the next election may say "Biden" and "Trump", but ILike many other external onlookers, I find myself totally bewildered
think it is really about whether American will be led by Harris or Putin. >>>>
as to why the Democrats seem willing to hand the next presidency back
to Trump. Are they really so feeble that nobody is willing to tell an
81-year-old guy whom the public has already judged too old, "Fair
play, Joe, you've done your bit, now it's time to let someone else
have a go "?
Other Democrats have their own problems, either being perceived as way
too liberal or not having any name recognition.
They seem a long way away from even *half* competent.
Besides, Biden is only two years older than Trump and is probably in
better physical shape. If the Biden campaign is halfway competent
big if), age will not be a deciding issue.I don't know what news outlets you follow but the ones I read are
showing Trump now ahead of Biden in opinion polls with Biden's age a
major factor, if not the most important one.
The biggest assets the Democrats have are (1) Trump and (2) the Dobbs decision ending the constitutional right to abortion. Whether they are
enough to outweigh the anti-majoritarian features of the US political
system and the White resentment of Trump's base remains to be seen. Polls right now don't tell you all that much.
On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 14:31:11 -0800, Mark Isaak <specimenNOSPAM@curioustaxon.omy.net> wrote:
On 12/22/23 9:53 AM, Martin Harran wrote:
On Thu, 21 Dec 2023 19:40:00 -0800, Mark Isaak
<specimenNOSPAM@curioustaxon.omy.net> wrote:
[...]
The ballot for the next election may say "Biden" and "Trump", but ILike many other external onlookers, I find myself totally bewildered
think it is really about whether American will be led by Harris or Putin. >>>
as to why the Democrats seem willing to hand the next presidency back
to Trump. Are they really so feeble that nobody is willing to tell an
81-year-old guy whom the public has already judged too old, "Fair
play, Joe, you've done your bit, now it's time to let someone else
have a go "?
Other Democrats have their own problems, either being perceived as way
too liberal or not having any name recognition.
In other words, they are too feeble.
Besides, Biden is only two years older than Trump and is probably in
better physical shape. If the Biden campaign is halfway competent
They seem a long way away from even *half* competent.
big if), age will not be a deciding issue.
I don't know what news outlets you follow but the ones I read are
showing Trump now ahead of Biden in opinion polls with Biden's age a
major factor, if not the most important one.
On Saturday, December 23, 2023 at 12:32:17 PM UTC-5, Martin Harran wrote:Trump's base remains to be seen. Polls right now don't tell you all that much. >> They tell you that Biden has gone from ahead to behind and no reason
On Sat, 23 Dec 2023 04:08:40 -0800 (PST), "broger...@gmail.com"
<broger...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, December 23, 2023 at 5:32:18?AM UTC-5, Martin Harran wrote: >>>> On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 14:31:11 -0800, Mark Isaak
<specime...@curioustaxon.omy.net> wrote:
On 12/22/23 9:53 AM, Martin Harran wrote:In other words, they are too feeble.
On Thu, 21 Dec 2023 19:40:00 -0800, Mark Isaak
<specime...@curioustaxon.omy.net> wrote:
[...]
The ballot for the next election may say "Biden" and "Trump", but I >>>>>>> think it is really about whether American will be led by Harris or Putin.
Like many other external onlookers, I find myself totally bewildered >>>>>> as to why the Democrats seem willing to hand the next presidency back >>>>>> to Trump. Are they really so feeble that nobody is willing to tell an >>>>>> 81-year-old guy whom the public has already judged too old, "Fair
play, Joe, you've done your bit, now it's time to let someone else >>>>>> have a go "?
Other Democrats have their own problems, either being perceived as way >>>>> too liberal or not having any name recognition.
They seem a long way away from even *half* competent.
Besides, Biden is only two years older than Trump and is probably in >>>>> better physical shape. If the Biden campaign is halfway competent
big if), age will not be a deciding issue.I don't know what news outlets you follow but the ones I read are
showing Trump now ahead of Biden in opinion polls with Biden's age a
major factor, if not the most important one.
The biggest assets the Democrats have are (1) Trump and (2) the Dobbs decision ending the constitutional right to abortion. Whether they are enough to outweigh the anti-majoritarian features of the US political system and the White resentment of
already wide awake to the dangers.to think it is going to get any better - those two factors have beenLiz Cheney is directing her remarks to fellow Republicans who privately think Trump is a disaster but are unwilling to buck him or his base and just think that somehow he'll just be a typical conservative president. She knows that the Democrats are
therefor a while. Liz Cheney reckons that the US is sleepwalking into
dictatorship - seems to me that the Democrats are the ones sleeping
most soundly.
On 12/23/23 2:45 PM, Ernest Major wrote:
On 23/12/2023 19:07, broger...@gmail.com wrote:Stalin, Mao and Hitler? Even calling Trump "dictatorial" is a reach
On Saturday, December 23, 2023 at 12:32:17 PM UTC-5, Martin Harran wrote: >>>> On Sat, 23 Dec 2023 04:08:40 -0800 (PST), "broger...@gmail.com"
<broger...@gmail.com> wrote:Liz Cheney is directing her remarks to fellow Republicans who
On Saturday, December 23, 2023 at 5:32:18?AM UTC-5, Martin HarranThey tell you that Biden has gone from ahead to behind and no reason
wrote:
On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 14:31:11 -0800, Mark Isaak
<specime...@curioustaxon.omy.net> wrote:
On 12/22/23 9:53 AM, Martin Harran wrote:In other words, they are too feeble.
On Thu, 21 Dec 2023 19:40:00 -0800, Mark Isaak
<specime...@curioustaxon.omy.net> wrote:
[...]
The ballot for the next election may say "Biden" and "Trump", but I >>>>>>>>> think it is really about whether American will be led by Harris >>>>>>>>> or Putin.
Like many other external onlookers, I find myself totally bewildered >>>>>>>> as to why the Democrats seem willing to hand the next presidency >>>>>>>> back
to Trump. Are they really so feeble that nobody is willing to
tell an
81-year-old guy whom the public has already judged too old, "Fair >>>>>>>> play, Joe, you've done your bit, now it's time to let someone else >>>>>>>> have a go "?
Other Democrats have their own problems, either being perceived as >>>>>>> way
too liberal or not having any name recognition.
I don't know what news outlets you follow but the ones I read are
Besides, Biden is only two years older than Trump and is probably in >>>>>>> better physical shape. If the Biden campaign is halfway competent >>>>>> They seem a long way away from even *half* competent.
big if), age will not be a deciding issue.
showing Trump now ahead of Biden in opinion polls with Biden's age a >>>>>> major factor, if not the most important one.
The biggest assets the Democrats have are (1) Trump and (2) the
Dobbs decision ending the constitutional right to abortion. Whether
they are enough to outweigh the anti-majoritarian features of the US >>>>> political system and the White resentment of Trump's base remains to >>>>> be seen. Polls right now don't tell you all that much.
to think it is going to get any better - those two factors have been
therefor a while. Liz Cheney reckons that the US is sleepwalking into
dictatorship - seems to me that the Democrats are the ones sleeping
most soundly.
privately think Trump is a disaster but are unwilling to buck him or
his base and just think that somehow he'll just be a typical
conservative president. She knows that the Democrats are already wide
awake to the dangers.
I think it is more that they (the "fellow Republicans") think that the
leopard won't eat their faces. They ought to look at the targets of
Stalin's, Mao's and even Hitler's purges.
compared to many state governors from both parties who pushed "mandates"
on their populations over the last few years. "Guidance" indeed. I
don't like Trump either, but over-characterizing him plays into his story.
On Saturday, December 23, 2023 at 3:32:17 PM UTC-5, Martin Harran wrote:
On Sat, 23 Dec 2023 10:55:41 -0800 (PST), "broger...@gmail.com"Happy to hear suggestions for somebody fresher. All difficult problems
<broger...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, December 23, 2023 at 12:32:17?PM UTC-5, Martin Harran wrote: >>>> On Sat, 23 Dec 2023 04:08:40 -0800 (PST), "broger...@gmail.com"ISTM that the strategy is very simple - retire Biden and put forward
<broger...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, December 23, 2023 at 5:32:18?AM UTC-5, Martin Harran wrote: >>>>>> On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 14:31:11 -0800, Mark IsaakThey tell you that Biden has gone from ahead to behind and no reason
<specime...@curioustaxon.omy.net> wrote:
On 12/22/23 9:53 AM, Martin Harran wrote:In other words, they are too feeble.
On Thu, 21 Dec 2023 19:40:00 -0800, Mark Isaak
<specime...@curioustaxon.omy.net> wrote:
[...]
The ballot for the next election may say "Biden" and "Trump", but I >>>>>>>>> think it is really about whether American will be led by Harris or Putin.
Like many other external onlookers, I find myself totally bewildered >>>>>>>> as to why the Democrats seem willing to hand the next presidency back >>>>>>>> to Trump. Are they really so feeble that nobody is willing to tell an >>>>>>>> 81-year-old guy whom the public has already judged too old, "Fair >>>>>>>> play, Joe, you've done your bit, now it's time to let someone else >>>>>>>> have a go "?
Other Democrats have their own problems, either being perceived as way >>>>>>> too liberal or not having any name recognition.
I don't know what news outlets you follow but the ones I read are
Besides, Biden is only two years older than Trump and is probably in >>>>>>> better physical shape. If the Biden campaign is halfway competent >>>>>> They seem a long way away from even *half* competent.
big if), age will not be a deciding issue.
showing Trump now ahead of Biden in opinion polls with Biden's age a >>>>>> major factor, if not the most important one.
The biggest assets the Democrats have are (1) Trump and (2) the Dobbs >>>>> decision ending the constitutional right to abortion. Whether they
are enough to outweigh the anti-majoritarian features of the US
political system and the White resentment of Trump's base remains to >>>>> be seen. Polls right now don't tell you all that much.
to think it is going to get any better - those two factors have been
therefor a while. Liz Cheney reckons that the US is sleepwalking into
dictatorship - seems to me that the Democrats are the ones sleeping
most soundly.
The Democrats are full of too much angst to sleep soundly, at least the
ones I know, and the ones I hear on the radio. If you have a suggestion
for how to improve the odds of beating Trump, there's a ton of
Democratic strategists who'd love to hear from you.
somebody fresher. If they really don't have someone fresher, then they
might as well pack up their tents and go home.
have simple, obvious answers, the problem is how rarely the simple
obvious answer really works. Time will tell. Unfortunately, Trump-like authoritarianism seems to be having a day in Europe and Asia, too.
The Grinches described in the linked article specialize in decorations that have what they deem to be a religious motif.
I do believe, by the way, that Kwanzaa
decorations would pass muster for any school or school board that follows their example.
So would rainbow flags...
https://washingtonstand.com/news/bah-humbug-pa-school-districts-warns-bus-drivers-against-christmas-decorations
Excerpts:
On Friday, just over a week before Christmas, the Wallingford-Swarthmore school district in Delaware County,
Pennsylvania, issued a memo to school bus drivers saying, “If you have decorated your bus with anything specific
to the Christmas Holiday or any other decorations relating to a specific religion, please remove them immediately.”
The memo concludes, “In addition, employees are instructed not to wear clothing related to Christmas
or any other religious holiday.” According to the memo, school district leadership
“has been receiving complaints from parents concerning District employees displaying ‘Christmas’ themed decorations
and/or wearing clothing of the same nature.”
A note adds that the policy is not specific to school bus drivers but “APPLIES TO ALL DISTRICT EMPLOYEES.”
...
Joseph Backholm, FRC’s senior fellow for Biblical Worldview, told TWS
that the ban on Christmas decorations
is “an issue of people in leadership who always follow rather than lead.” He said, “The school district apparently received a complaint from
someone that a bus driver
was spreading too much Christmas cheer, and
instead of telling that parent
they encourage every bus driver to be as festive as possible,
they decided it was their job to protect the emotionally fragile.”
Although “Christmas” is named explicitly in the memo, Backholm noted that the inclusion
of “any other religious holiday” was “certainly done on the advice of their lawyers,
because it would be illegal to just ban Christmas displays and clothing.”
...
According to Fox 29 Philadelphia, the school district clarified Friday
night that their intent was “not clear”
and reversed the ban on holiday decorations and clothing,
emphasizing instead a need for bus drivers to create “an inclusive environment.”
“The parents who want to remove the decorations should spend a week on
the bus to see what kind of environment
their children and the bus drivers experience daily,” Kilgannon said. “Parents know that in many school districts bus discipline is nonexistent and enforcing any behavioral norm
is often punished — by just this kind of complaint. Taxpayers on the other hand
who have no kids in school have no idea that this kind of situation is
funded by their generosity.”
[end of excerpts]
On Sunday, December 24, 2023 at 4:47:18 AM UTC-5, Martin Harran wrote:
On Sat, 23 Dec 2023 13:09:38 -0800 (PST), "broger...@gmail.com"
<broger...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, December 23, 2023 at 3:32:17?PM UTC-5, Martin Harran wrote: >>>> On Sat, 23 Dec 2023 10:55:41 -0800 (PST), "broger...@gmail.com"If the Democrats need me to identify a better candidate than Biden
<broger...@gmail.com> wrote:Happy to hear suggestions for somebody fresher.
On Saturday, December 23, 2023 at 12:32:17?PM UTC-5, Martin Harran wrote: >>>>>> On Sat, 23 Dec 2023 04:08:40 -0800 (PST), "broger...@gmail.com"ISTM that the strategy is very simple - retire Biden and put forward
<broger...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, December 23, 2023 at 5:32:18?AM UTC-5, Martin Harran wrote:
On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 14:31:11 -0800, Mark Isaak
<specime...@curioustaxon.omy.net> wrote:
On 12/22/23 9:53 AM, Martin Harran wrote:In other words, they are too feeble.
On Thu, 21 Dec 2023 19:40:00 -0800, Mark Isaak
<specime...@curioustaxon.omy.net> wrote:
[...]
The ballot for the next election may say "Biden" and "Trump", but I >>>>>>>>>>> think it is really about whether American will be led by Harris or Putin.
Like many other external onlookers, I find myself totally bewildered >>>>>>>>>> as to why the Democrats seem willing to hand the next presidency back
to Trump. Are they really so feeble that nobody is willing to tell an
81-year-old guy whom the public has already judged too old, "Fair >>>>>>>>>> play, Joe, you've done your bit, now it's time to let someone else >>>>>>>>>> have a go "?
Other Democrats have their own problems, either being perceived as way
too liberal or not having any name recognition.
I don't know what news outlets you follow but the ones I read are >>>>>>>> showing Trump now ahead of Biden in opinion polls with Biden's age a >>>>>>>> major factor, if not the most important one.
Besides, Biden is only two years older than Trump and is probably in >>>>>>>>> better physical shape. If the Biden campaign is halfway competent >>>>>>>> They seem a long way away from even *half* competent.
big if), age will not be a deciding issue.
The biggest assets the Democrats have are (1) Trump and (2) the
Dobbs decision ending the constitutional right to abortion. Whether >>>>>>> they are enough to outweigh the anti-majoritarian features of the >>>>>>> US political system and the White resentment of Trump's base
remains to be seen. Polls right now don't tell you all that much. >>>>>> They tell you that Biden has gone from ahead to behind and no reason >>>>>> to think it is going to get any better - those two factors have been >>>>>> therefor a while. Liz Cheney reckons that the US is sleepwalking into >>>>>> dictatorship - seems to me that the Democrats are the ones sleeping >>>>>> most soundly.
The Democrats are full of too much angst to sleep soundly, at least
the ones I know, and the ones I hear on the radio. If you have a
suggestion for how to improve the odds of beating Trump, there's a
ton of Democratic strategists who'd love to hear from you.
somebody fresher. If they really don't have someone fresher, then they >>>> might as well pack up their tents and go home.
then they are in an even worse state than I thought.
Well, if I could install anyone I wanted for president, Biden wouldn't be
my choice, but here's the argument for not getting rid of Biden
1. Incumbency is a big advantage
2. Incumbent presidents who get a significant primary challenge are always weakened by it.
3. Biden has beat Trump once already - arguably several times if you
count all the intervening off-year elections where Trump's MAGA picks or propositions got beaten.
4. Of course nobody likes polls showing that their guy is behind, but you
may remember that even up to the 2022 election, the predictions were for
a massive red wave in Congress, and in fact the Republicans barely got control of the house and lost net one seat in the Senate.
5. Biden has made a career of being underestimated - in fact I think he's
got a lot done given divided control of Congress.
5. The Dobbs decision led to big turnouts in favor of reproductive rights even in very red states; the Democrats will clearly tap into that.
6. Changing candidates would do nothing to change the anti-majoritarian political system we unfortunately have (Electoral College and structure
of the Senate), nor would it do anything to damp down the nativist, White resentment and anger that Trump has whipped up and capitalized on. In
fact if the sort of more progressive candidate I would prefer got
nominated, it would be even harder to beat Trump.
Still, having the fate of the country rest on an 81 year old guy with a tendency to gaffe when he extemporizes (though not as readily as Trump)
and a limited amount of energy makes me nervous as hell.
After the election, if I'm wrong, you can tell me you told me so, but I
won't be here anymore once Google Groups throws in the towel in February.
erik simpson <eastside.erik@gmail.com> wrote:
On 12/23/23 2:45 PM, Ernest Major wrote:I try not to use the label fascist as that seems confined to a specific
On 23/12/2023 19:07, broger...@gmail.com wrote:Stalin, Mao and Hitler? Even calling Trump "dictatorial" is a reach
On Saturday, December 23, 2023 at 12:32:17 PM UTC-5, Martin Harran wrote:
On Sat, 23 Dec 2023 04:08:40 -0800 (PST), "broger...@gmail.com"Liz Cheney is directing her remarks to fellow Republicans who
<broger...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, December 23, 2023 at 5:32:18?AM UTC-5, Martin HarranThey tell you that Biden has gone from ahead to behind and no reason >>>>> to think it is going to get any better - those two factors have been >>>>> therefor a while. Liz Cheney reckons that the US is sleepwalking into >>>>> dictatorship - seems to me that the Democrats are the ones sleeping
wrote:
On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 14:31:11 -0800, Mark Isaak
<specime...@curioustaxon.omy.net> wrote:
On 12/22/23 9:53 AM, Martin Harran wrote:In other words, they are too feeble.
On Thu, 21 Dec 2023 19:40:00 -0800, Mark Isaak
<specime...@curioustaxon.omy.net> wrote:
[...]
The ballot for the next election may say "Biden" and "Trump", but I >>>>>>>>>> think it is really about whether American will be led by Harris >>>>>>>>>> or Putin.
Like many other external onlookers, I find myself totally bewildered >>>>>>>>> as to why the Democrats seem willing to hand the next presidency >>>>>>>>> back
to Trump. Are they really so feeble that nobody is willing to >>>>>>>>> tell an
81-year-old guy whom the public has already judged too old, "Fair >>>>>>>>> play, Joe, you've done your bit, now it's time to let someone else >>>>>>>>> have a go "?
Other Democrats have their own problems, either being perceived as >>>>>>>> way
too liberal or not having any name recognition.
I don't know what news outlets you follow but the ones I read are >>>>>>> showing Trump now ahead of Biden in opinion polls with Biden's age a >>>>>>> major factor, if not the most important one.
Besides, Biden is only two years older than Trump and is probably in >>>>>>>> better physical shape. If the Biden campaign is halfway competent >>>>>>> They seem a long way away from even *half* competent.
big if), age will not be a deciding issue.
The biggest assets the Democrats have are (1) Trump and (2) the
Dobbs decision ending the constitutional right to abortion. Whether >>>>>> they are enough to outweigh the anti-majoritarian features of the US >>>>>> political system and the White resentment of Trump's base remains to >>>>>> be seen. Polls right now don't tell you all that much.
most soundly.
privately think Trump is a disaster but are unwilling to buck him or
his base and just think that somehow he'll just be a typical
conservative president. She knows that the Democrats are already wide
awake to the dangers.
I think it is more that they (the "fellow Republicans") think that the
leopard won't eat their faces. They ought to look at the targets of
Stalin's, Mao's and even Hitler's purges.
compared to many state governors from both parties who pushed "mandates"
on their populations over the last few years. "Guidance" indeed. I
don't like Trump either, but over-characterizing him plays into his story. >>
time and place. But Trump is surely authoritarian in demeanor and pushes
the right buttons for those authoritarians who support him.
Mark Isaak wrote:
On 12/19/23 1:50 PM, peter2...@gmail.com wrote:Why would anyone send money to an organization which makes them angry?
The Grinches described in the linked article specialize in
decorations that
have what they deem to be a religious motif.
I do believe, by the way, that Kwanzaa
decorations would pass muster for any school or school board that
follows their example.
So would rainbow flags...
https://washingtonstand.com/news/bah-humbug-pa-school-districts-warns-bus-drivers-against-christmas-decorations
Excerpts:
On Friday, just over a week before Christmas, the
Wallingford-Swarthmore school district in Delaware County,
Pennsylvania, issued a memo to school bus drivers saying, “If you
have decorated your bus with anything specific
to the Christmas Holiday or any other decorations relating to a
specific religion, please remove them immediately.”
The memo concludes, “In addition, employees are instructed not to
wear clothing related to Christmas
or any other religious holiday.” According to the memo, school
district leadership
“has been receiving complaints from parents concerning District
employees displaying ‘Christmas’ themed decorations
and/or wearing clothing of the same nature.”
A note adds that the policy is not specific to school bus drivers
but “APPLIES TO ALL DISTRICT EMPLOYEES.”
...
Joseph Backholm, FRC’s senior fellow for Biblical Worldview, told TWS
that the ban on Christmas decorations
is “an issue of people in leadership who always follow rather than
lead.”
He said, “The school district apparently received a complaint from
someone that a bus driver
was spreading too much Christmas cheer, and instead of telling that
parent
they encourage every bus driver to be as festive as possible,
they decided it was their job to protect the emotionally fragile.”
Although “Christmas” is named explicitly in the memo, Backholm noted >>> that the inclusion
of “any other religious holiday” was “certainly done on the advice of >>> their lawyers,
because it would be illegal to just ban Christmas displays and
clothing.”
...
According to Fox 29 Philadelphia, the school district clarified
Friday night that their intent was “not clear”
and reversed the ban on holiday decorations and clothing,
emphasizing instead a need for bus drivers to create “an inclusive
environment.”
“The parents who want to remove the decorations should spend a week
on the bus to see what kind of environment
their children and the bus drivers experience daily,” Kilgannon said.
“Parents know that in many school districts bus discipline is
nonexistent and enforcing any behavioral norm
is often punished — by just this kind of complaint. Taxpayers on the
other hand
who have no kids in school have no idea that this kind of situation
is funded by their generosity.”
[end of excerpts]
Sounds like the War on Christmas waged by Republicans a few years ago
to make people angry enough to send them money.
That comment makes absolute _no_ sense!
I didn't write that! I learned who wrote it on my computer. It got himAh, come on. You can't fire your kids.
fired.
On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 01:21:43 -0500, Ron Dean
<rondean...@gmail.com> wrote:
Mark Isaak wrote:Mark's remark wasn't particularly clear, he was talking about
On 12/19/23 1:50 PM, peter2...@gmail.com wrote:Why would anyone send money to an organization which makes them angry? >That comment makes absolute _no_ sense!
The Grinches described in the linked article specialize in decorations >>> that
have what they deem to be a religious motif.
I do believe, by the way, that Kwanzaa
decorations would pass muster for any school or school board that
follows their example.
So would rainbow flags...
https://washingtonstand.com/news/bah-humbug-pa-school-districts-warns-bus-drivers-against-christmas-decorations
Excerpts:
On Friday, just over a week before Christmas, the
Wallingford-Swarthmore school district in Delaware County,
Pennsylvania, issued a memo to school bus drivers saying, “If you have >>> decorated your bus with anything specific
to the Christmas Holiday or any other decorations relating to a
specific religion, please remove them immediately.”
The memo concludes, “In addition, employees are instructed not to wear >>> clothing related to Christmas
or any other religious holiday.” According to the memo, school
district leadership
“has been receiving complaints from parents concerning District
employees displaying ‘Christmas’ themed decorations
and/or wearing clothing of the same nature.”
A note adds that the policy is not specific to school bus drivers
but “APPLIES TO ALL DISTRICT EMPLOYEES.”
...
Joseph Backholm, FRC’s senior fellow for Biblical Worldview, told TWS >>> that the ban on Christmas decorations
is “an issue of people in leadership who always follow rather than lead.”
He said, “The school district apparently received a complaint from
someone that a bus driver
was spreading too much Christmas cheer, and instead of telling that
parent
they encourage every bus driver to be as festive as possible,
they decided it was their job to protect the emotionally fragile.”
Although “Christmas” is named explicitly in the memo, Backholm noted >>> that the inclusion
of “any other religious holiday” was “certainly done on the advice of
their lawyers,
because it would be illegal to just ban Christmas displays and clothing.”
...
According to Fox 29 Philadelphia, the school district clarified Friday >>> night that their intent was “not clear”
and reversed the ban on holiday decorations and clothing,
emphasizing instead a need for bus drivers to create “an inclusive
environment.”
“The parents who want to remove the decorations should spend a week on >>> the bus to see what kind of environment
their children and the bus drivers experience daily,” Kilgannon said. >>> “Parents know that in many school districts bus discipline is
nonexistent and enforcing any behavioral norm
is often punished — by just this kind of complaint. Taxpayers on the >>> other hand
who have no kids in school have no idea that this kind of situation is >>> funded by their generosity.”
[end of excerpts]
Sounds like the War on Christmas waged by Republicans a few years ago to >> make people angry enough to send them money.
Republicans fighting against what they saw as anti-religion people
waging "War on Christmas".
On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 1:32:22 PM UTC, Martin Harran wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 01:21:43 -0500, Ron Dean
<rondean...@gmail.com> wrote:
Mark Isaak wrote:Mark's remark wasn't particularly clear, he was talking about
On 12/19/23 1:50 PM, peter2...@gmail.com wrote:Why would anyone send money to an organization which makes them angry?
The Grinches described in the linked article specialize in decorations >>>>> that
have what they deem to be a religious motif.
I do believe, by the way, that Kwanzaa
decorations would pass muster for any school or school board that
follows their example.
So would rainbow flags...
https://washingtonstand.com/news/bah-humbug-pa-school-districts-warns-bus-drivers-against-christmas-decorations
Excerpts:
On Friday, just over a week before Christmas, the
Wallingford-Swarthmore school district in Delaware County,
Pennsylvania, issued a memo to school bus drivers saying, “If you have >>>>> decorated your bus with anything specific
to the Christmas Holiday or any other decorations relating to a
specific religion, please remove them immediately.”
The memo concludes, “In addition, employees are instructed not to wear >>>>> clothing related to Christmas
or any other religious holiday.” According to the memo, school
district leadership
“has been receiving complaints from parents concerning District
employees displaying ‘Christmas’ themed decorations
and/or wearing clothing of the same nature.”
A note adds that the policy is not specific to school bus drivers >>>>> but “APPLIES TO ALL DISTRICT EMPLOYEES.”
...
Joseph Backholm, FRC’s senior fellow for Biblical Worldview, told TWS >>>>> that the ban on Christmas decorations
is “an issue of people in leadership who always follow rather than lead.”
He said, “The school district apparently received a complaint from >>>>> someone that a bus driver
was spreading too much Christmas cheer, and instead of telling that
parent
they encourage every bus driver to be as festive as possible,
they decided it was their job to protect the emotionally fragile.” >>>>> Although “Christmas” is named explicitly in the memo, Backholm noted >>>>> that the inclusion
of “any other religious holiday” was “certainly done on the advice of
their lawyers,
because it would be illegal to just ban Christmas displays and clothing.”
...
According to Fox 29 Philadelphia, the school district clarified Friday >>>>> night that their intent was “not clear”
and reversed the ban on holiday decorations and clothing,
emphasizing instead a need for bus drivers to create “an inclusive >>>>> environment.”
“The parents who want to remove the decorations should spend a week on >>>>> the bus to see what kind of environment
their children and the bus drivers experience daily,” Kilgannon said. >>>>> “Parents know that in many school districts bus discipline is
nonexistent and enforcing any behavioral norm
is often punished — by just this kind of complaint. Taxpayers on the >>>>> other hand
who have no kids in school have no idea that this kind of situation is >>>>> funded by their generosity.”
[end of excerpts]
Sounds like the War on Christmas waged by Republicans a few years ago to >>>> make people angry enough to send them money.
That comment makes absolute _no_ sense!
Republicans fighting against what they saw as anti-religion people
waging "War on Christmas".
Christmas, what is that Christmas you are talking
about - do you mean Christ-tide by any chance?;o)
And we were so, so close winning the war against Christmas!
Back in 1640 that is, when Christmas celebrations were prohibited
in England by an Act of Parliament. And when this did not work,
closing your business on the 25th became a criminal offence in 1656.
Verily, isn't "luxurious disorderly Christmas-keeping a meere sinfull,
wicked unchristian pastimes, vanities, cultures and disguises’?
To ‘decke up Houses with Laurell, Yuie and green boughes should be
forbidden, as does any going out to entertainment, which is
‘a voluptuous and base servilitie to our filthie carnal lusts"
Indeed, should people of other faiths observe our Bacchanalian
Christmas extravagancies they would ‘thinke our Saviour to be a
glutton, an Epicure, a wine-bibber … a God of all dissolutenesse, drunkennesse and disorder’!!!!
In the Bible there is nothing about feasting, carousing, gambling or heathenish Christmas pastimes’; rather, ‘Glory be to God on high, on earth peace, good will towards men … is the Angels’, the Shepherds’ only
Christmas Caroll’, which the Virgin Mary ‘hath prefaced with this celestiall hymne of prayse, My soule doth magnifie the Lord…’
So I hope you abstained from all ‘riotous grand-Christmasses’
and instead to ‘cordially meditated on the Scriptures"
preferably alone and in an unheated home
On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 1:32:22 PM UTC, Martin Harran wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 01:21:43 -0500, Ron Dean
<rondean...@gmail.com> wrote:
Mark Isaak wrote:Mark's remark wasn't particularly clear, he was talking about
On 12/19/23 1:50 PM, peter2...@gmail.com wrote:Why would anyone send money to an organization which makes them angry?
The Grinches described in the linked article specialize in decorations >>>>> that
have what they deem to be a religious motif.
I do believe, by the way, that Kwanzaa
decorations would pass muster for any school or school board that
follows their example.
So would rainbow flags...
https://washingtonstand.com/news/bah-humbug-pa-school-districts-warns-bus-drivers-against-christmas-decorations
Excerpts:
On Friday, just over a week before Christmas, the
Wallingford-Swarthmore school district in Delaware County,
Pennsylvania, issued a memo to school bus drivers saying, “If you have >>>>> decorated your bus with anything specific
to the Christmas Holiday or any other decorations relating to a
specific religion, please remove them immediately.”
The memo concludes, “In addition, employees are instructed not to wear >>>>> clothing related to Christmas
or any other religious holiday.” According to the memo, school
district leadership
“has been receiving complaints from parents concerning District
employees displaying ‘Christmas’ themed decorations
and/or wearing clothing of the same nature.”
A note adds that the policy is not specific to school bus drivers >>>>> but “APPLIES TO ALL DISTRICT EMPLOYEES.”
...
Joseph Backholm, FRC’s senior fellow for Biblical Worldview, told TWS >>>>> that the ban on Christmas decorations
is “an issue of people in leadership who always follow rather than lead.”
He said, “The school district apparently received a complaint from >>>>> someone that a bus driver
was spreading too much Christmas cheer, and instead of telling that
parent
they encourage every bus driver to be as festive as possible,
they decided it was their job to protect the emotionally fragile.” >>>>> Although “Christmas” is named explicitly in the memo, Backholm noted >>>>> that the inclusion
of “any other religious holiday” was “certainly done on the advice of
their lawyers,
because it would be illegal to just ban Christmas displays and clothing.”
...
According to Fox 29 Philadelphia, the school district clarified Friday >>>>> night that their intent was “not clear”
and reversed the ban on holiday decorations and clothing,
emphasizing instead a need for bus drivers to create “an inclusive >>>>> environment.”
“The parents who want to remove the decorations should spend a week on >>>>> the bus to see what kind of environment
their children and the bus drivers experience daily,” Kilgannon said. >>>>> “Parents know that in many school districts bus discipline is
nonexistent and enforcing any behavioral norm
is often punished — by just this kind of complaint. Taxpayers on the >>>>> other hand
who have no kids in school have no idea that this kind of situation is >>>>> funded by their generosity.”
[end of excerpts]
Sounds like the War on Christmas waged by Republicans a few years ago to >>>> make people angry enough to send them money.
That comment makes absolute _no_ sense!
Republicans fighting against what they saw as anti-religion people
waging "War on Christmas".
Christmas, what is that Christmas you are talking
about - do you mean Christ-tide by any chance?;o)
And we were so, so close winning the war against Christmas!
Back in 1640 that is, when Christmas celebrations were prohibited
in England by an Act of Parliament. And when this did not work,
closing your business on the 25th became a criminal offence in 1656.
Verily, isn't "luxurious disorderly Christmas-keeping a meere sinfull,
wicked unchristian pastimes, vanities, cultures and disguises’?
To ‘decke up Houses with Laurell, Yuie and green boughes should be
forbidden, as does any going out to entertainment, which is
‘a voluptuous and base servilitie to our filthie carnal lusts"
Indeed, should people of other faiths observe our Bacchanalian
Christmas extravagancies they would ‘thinke our Saviour to be a
glutton, an Epicure, a wine-bibber … a God of all dissolutenesse, drunkennesse and disorder’!!!!
In the Bible there is nothing about feasting, carousing, gambling or heathenish Christmas pastimes’; rather, ‘Glory be to God on high, on earth peace, good will towards men … is the Angels’, the Shepherds’ only
Christmas Caroll’, which the Virgin Mary ‘hath prefaced with this celestiall hymne of prayse, My soule doth magnifie the Lord…’
So I hope you abstained from all ‘riotous grand-Christmasses’
and instead to ‘cordially meditated on the Scriptures"
preferably alone and in an unheated home
On 02/01/2024 17:22, Burkhard wrote:
On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 1:32:22 PM UTC, Martin Harran wrote:
On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 01:21:43 -0500, Ron Dean
<rondean...@gmail.com> wrote:
Mark Isaak wrote:Mark's remark wasn't particularly clear, he was talking about
On 12/19/23 1:50 PM, peter2...@gmail.com wrote:Why would anyone send money to an organization which makes them angry? >>> That comment makes absolute _no_ sense!
The Grinches described in the linked article specialize in decorations >>>>> that
have what they deem to be a religious motif.
I do believe, by the way, that Kwanzaa
decorations would pass muster for any school or school board that >>>>> follows their example.
So would rainbow flags...
https://washingtonstand.com/news/bah-humbug-pa-school-districts-warns-bus-drivers-against-christmas-decorations
Excerpts:
On Friday, just over a week before Christmas, the
Wallingford-Swarthmore school district in Delaware County,
Pennsylvania, issued a memo to school bus drivers saying, “If you have
decorated your bus with anything specific
to the Christmas Holiday or any other decorations relating to a
specific religion, please remove them immediately.”
The memo concludes, “In addition, employees are instructed not to wear
clothing related to Christmas
or any other religious holiday.” According to the memo, school
district leadership
“has been receiving complaints from parents concerning District >>>>> employees displaying ‘Christmas’ themed decorations
and/or wearing clothing of the same nature.”
A note adds that the policy is not specific to school bus drivers >>>>> but “APPLIES TO ALL DISTRICT EMPLOYEES.”
...
Joseph Backholm, FRC’s senior fellow for Biblical Worldview, told TWS
that the ban on Christmas decorations
is “an issue of people in leadership who always follow rather than lead.”
He said, “The school district apparently received a complaint from >>>>> someone that a bus driver
was spreading too much Christmas cheer, and instead of telling that >>>>> parent
they encourage every bus driver to be as festive as possible,
they decided it was their job to protect the emotionally fragile.” >>>>> Although “Christmas” is named explicitly in the memo, Backholm noted
that the inclusion
of “any other religious holiday” was “certainly done on the advice of
their lawyers,
because it would be illegal to just ban Christmas displays and clothing.”
...
According to Fox 29 Philadelphia, the school district clarified Friday >>>>> night that their intent was “not clear”
and reversed the ban on holiday decorations and clothing,
emphasizing instead a need for bus drivers to create “an inclusive >>>>> environment.”
“The parents who want to remove the decorations should spend a week on
the bus to see what kind of environment
their children and the bus drivers experience daily,” Kilgannon said.
“Parents know that in many school districts bus discipline is
nonexistent and enforcing any behavioral norm
is often punished — by just this kind of complaint. Taxpayers on the >>>>> other hand
who have no kids in school have no idea that this kind of situation is >>>>> funded by their generosity.”
[end of excerpts]
Sounds like the War on Christmas waged by Republicans a few years ago to
make people angry enough to send them money.
Republicans fighting against what they saw as anti-religion people
waging "War on Christmas".
Christmas, what is that Christmas you are talking
about - do you mean Christ-tide by any chance?;o)
And we were so, so close winning the war against Christmas!
Back in 1640 that is, when Christmas celebrations were prohibited
in England by an Act of Parliament. And when this did not work,
closing your business on the 25th became a criminal offence in 1656.
Verily, isn't "luxurious disorderly Christmas-keeping a meere sinfull, wicked unchristian pastimes, vanities, cultures and disguises’?
To ‘decke up Houses with Laurell, Yuie and green boughes should be forbidden, as does any going out to entertainment, which is
‘a voluptuous and base servilitie to our filthie carnal lusts"
Indeed, should people of other faiths observe our Bacchanalian
Christmas extravagancies they would ‘thinke our Saviour to be a
glutton, an Epicure, a wine-bibber … a God of all dissolutenesse, drunkennesse and disorder’!!!!
In the Bible there is nothing about feasting, carousing, gambling or heathenish Christmas pastimes’; rather, ‘Glory be to God on high, on earth peace, good will towards men … is the Angels’, the Shepherds’ only
Christmas Caroll’, which the Virgin Mary ‘hath prefaced with this celestiall hymne of prayse, My soule doth magnifie the Lord…’
So I hope you abstained from all ‘riotous grand-Christmasses’
and instead to ‘cordially meditated on the Scriptures"
preferably alone and in an unheated home
I looked to see if there was any informative press reporting on this
event, but all I found was the same outrage peddling. Unless something
more than Christmas decoration was involved, such as plastering the bus windows with nativity scenes or icons of the Virgin, crossing the line
into proselytisation, I would think the most likely complainant would be
a Christian from one of the sects that reject the Christmas festivities
as pagan.
--
alias Ernest Major
On Tuesday, January 2, 2024 at 7:37:27 PM UTC, Ernest Major wrote:
On 02/01/2024 17:22, Burkhard wrote:
On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 1:32:22 PM UTC, Martin Harran wrote: >>>> On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 01:21:43 -0500, Ron DeanI looked to see if there was any informative press reporting on this
<rondean...@gmail.com> wrote:
Mark Isaak wrote:Mark's remark wasn't particularly clear, he was talking about
On 12/19/23 1:50 PM, peter2...@gmail.com wrote:Why would anyone send money to an organization which makes them angry? >>>>> That comment makes absolute _no_ sense!
The Grinches described in the linked article specialize in decorations >>>>>>> that
have what they deem to be a religious motif.
I do believe, by the way, that Kwanzaa
decorations would pass muster for any school or school board that >>>>>>> follows their example.
So would rainbow flags...
https://washingtonstand.com/news/bah-humbug-pa-school-districts-warns-bus-drivers-against-christmas-decorations
Excerpts:
On Friday, just over a week before Christmas, the
Wallingford-Swarthmore school district in Delaware County,
Pennsylvania, issued a memo to school bus drivers saying, “If you have
decorated your bus with anything specific
to the Christmas Holiday or any other decorations relating to a
specific religion, please remove them immediately.”
The memo concludes, “In addition, employees are instructed not to wear
clothing related to Christmas
or any other religious holiday.” According to the memo, school >>>>>>> district leadership
“has been receiving complaints from parents concerning District >>>>>>> employees displaying ‘Christmas’ themed decorations
and/or wearing clothing of the same nature.”
A note adds that the policy is not specific to school bus drivers >>>>>>> but “APPLIES TO ALL DISTRICT EMPLOYEES.”
...
Joseph Backholm, FRC’s senior fellow for Biblical Worldview, told TWS >>>>>>> that the ban on Christmas decorations
is “an issue of people in leadership who always follow rather than lead.”
He said, “The school district apparently received a complaint from >>>>>>> someone that a bus driver
was spreading too much Christmas cheer, and instead of telling that >>>>>>> parent
they encourage every bus driver to be as festive as possible,
they decided it was their job to protect the emotionally fragile.” >>>>>>> Although “Christmas” is named explicitly in the memo, Backholm noted
that the inclusion
of “any other religious holiday” was “certainly done on the advice of
their lawyers,
because it would be illegal to just ban Christmas displays and clothing.”
...
According to Fox 29 Philadelphia, the school district clarified Friday >>>>>>> night that their intent was “not clear”
and reversed the ban on holiday decorations and clothing,
emphasizing instead a need for bus drivers to create “an inclusive >>>>>>> environment.”
“The parents who want to remove the decorations should spend a week on
the bus to see what kind of environment
their children and the bus drivers experience daily,” Kilgannon said. >>>>>>> “Parents know that in many school districts bus discipline is
nonexistent and enforcing any behavioral norm
is often punished — by just this kind of complaint. Taxpayers on the >>>>>>> other hand
who have no kids in school have no idea that this kind of situation is >>>>>>> funded by their generosity.”
[end of excerpts]
Sounds like the War on Christmas waged by Republicans a few years ago to >>>>>> make people angry enough to send them money.
Republicans fighting against what they saw as anti-religion people
waging "War on Christmas".
Christmas, what is that Christmas you are talking
about - do you mean Christ-tide by any chance?;o)
And we were so, so close winning the war against Christmas!
Back in 1640 that is, when Christmas celebrations were prohibited
in England by an Act of Parliament. And when this did not work,
closing your business on the 25th became a criminal offence in 1656.
Verily, isn't "luxurious disorderly Christmas-keeping a meere sinfull,
wicked unchristian pastimes, vanities, cultures and disguises’?
To ‘decke up Houses with Laurell, Yuie and green boughes should be
forbidden, as does any going out to entertainment, which is
‘a voluptuous and base servilitie to our filthie carnal lusts"
Indeed, should people of other faiths observe our Bacchanalian
Christmas extravagancies they would ‘thinke our Saviour to be a
glutton, an Epicure, a wine-bibber … a God of all dissolutenesse,
drunkennesse and disorder’!!!!
In the Bible there is nothing about feasting, carousing, gambling or
heathenish Christmas pastimes’; rather, ‘Glory be to God on high, on >>> earth peace, good will towards men … is the Angels’, the Shepherds’ only
Christmas Caroll’, which the Virgin Mary ‘hath prefaced with this
celestiall hymne of prayse, My soule doth magnifie the Lord…’
So I hope you abstained from all ‘riotous grand-Christmasses’
and instead to ‘cordially meditated on the Scriptures"
preferably alone and in an unheated home
event, but all I found was the same outrage peddling. Unless something
more than Christmas decoration was involved, such as plastering the bus
windows with nativity scenes or icons of the Virgin, crossing the line
into proselytisation, I would think the most likely complainant would be
a Christian from one of the sects that reject the Christmas festivities
as pagan.
--
alias Ernest Major
Not at all implausible, I'd say. The really strange thing, from a
history of ideas perspective, is that the English parliament outlawed Christmas because it was seen as either "too papist" or "too pagan"
(without necessarily distinguishing too much between these).
But historically (and at that time, that meant less than a century ago)
it had been Martin Luther who had more or less invented the modern
idea of Christmas, at least in northern and Central Europe. Prior to that, the main day of Festivities had been December 6th, St Nicolaus day,
the 25th was pretty much irrelevant.
The early church didn't celebrate it either, indeed, there was widespread disagreement regarding the date - March 28, April 2, April 19,
May 20, November 17 all had some backing by early patristic writers,
and in some Christian denominations it's still today the 6.1. And
unlike the question of when to date Easter, where different dates lead to schisms and
persecution, nobody got their hackles up over the birthday. It was deemed theologically irrelevant.
Luther now was concerned over what he saw as "pagan" St.Nicolaus celebrations, the festivities and the gift giving in particular, so he promoted
the 25th as an alternative, to refocus from a Saint to the person of Christ.
Confused? You will be, because after that it gets really complicated: In Luther's admonitions, the focus on St Nicholas is replaced to
one on the "Heiliger Christ" (Holy Christ), but for him there was no link to Jesus
as a baby, and definitely no nativity plays etc. His "Heilige Christ"
however transmogrified quickly into two competing version,
the "Christkind" (Christmas child - not Christ, but a sort of gift
bringing angel) and the "Weihnachtsmann" (Christmas man) -
the latter dominating Northern and Eastern Germany.
And then finally in the 19th century, the Victorians merge back the
Weihnachtsman with the original St Nicolaus celebrations, giving
us Santa Claus etc
So when the English Parliament started its war against Christmas
out of anti-catholic sentiment, they really attacked a practice
that owed more to Luther than the Pope. As another historical
oddity, while in England these laws were soon revoked, their cultural
impact remained strongest outside England, in Scotland. As recent as
the 1980s and early 90s, Christmas was really not a "thing" up here,
people saved up their energy and money for Hogmany. It is mainly a
result of the pressures of global capitalism and its advertising budgets
that that has changed by now.
On Tue, 2 Jan 2024 19:36:38 +0000, Ernest Major
<{$to$}@meden.demon.co.uk> wrote:
On 02/01/2024 17:22, Burkhard wrote:
On Thursday, December 28, 2023 at 1:32:22?PM UTC, Martin Harran wrote: >>> On Thu, 28 Dec 2023 01:21:43 -0500, Ron Dean
<rondean...@gmail.com> wrote:
Mark Isaak wrote:Mark's remark wasn't particularly clear, he was talking about
On 12/19/23 1:50 PM, peter2...@gmail.com wrote:Why would anyone send money to an organization which makes them angry? >>>> That comment makes absolute _no_ sense!
The Grinches described in the linked article specialize in decorations
that
have what they deem to be a religious motif.
I do believe, by the way, that Kwanzaa
decorations would pass muster for any school or school board that >>>>>> follows their example.
So would rainbow flags...
https://washingtonstand.com/news/bah-humbug-pa-school-districts-warns-bus-drivers-against-christmas-decorations
Excerpts:
On Friday, just over a week before Christmas, the
Wallingford-Swarthmore school district in Delaware County,
Pennsylvania, issued a memo to school bus drivers saying, “If you have
decorated your bus with anything specific
to the Christmas Holiday or any other decorations relating to a >>>>>> specific religion, please remove them immediately.”
The memo concludes, “In addition, employees are instructed not to wear
clothing related to Christmas
or any other religious holiday.” According to the memo, school >>>>>> district leadership
“has been receiving complaints from parents concerning District >>>>>> employees displaying ‘Christmas’ themed decorations
and/or wearing clothing of the same nature.”
A note adds that the policy is not specific to school bus drivers >>>>>> but “APPLIES TO ALL DISTRICT EMPLOYEES.”
...
Joseph Backholm, FRC’s senior fellow for Biblical Worldview, told TWS
that the ban on Christmas decorations
is “an issue of people in leadership who always follow rather than lead.”
He said, “The school district apparently received a complaint from >>>>>> someone that a bus driver
was spreading too much Christmas cheer, and instead of telling that >>>>>> parent
they encourage every bus driver to be as festive as possible,
they decided it was their job to protect the emotionally fragile.” >>>>>> Although “Christmas” is named explicitly in the memo, Backholm noted
that the inclusion
of “any other religious holiday” was “certainly done on the advice of
their lawyers,
because it would be illegal to just ban Christmas displays and clothing.”
...
According to Fox 29 Philadelphia, the school district clarified Friday
night that their intent was “not clear”
and reversed the ban on holiday decorations and clothing,
emphasizing instead a need for bus drivers to create “an inclusive >>>>>> environment.”
“The parents who want to remove the decorations should spend a week on
the bus to see what kind of environment
their children and the bus drivers experience daily,” Kilgannon said.
“Parents know that in many school districts bus discipline is >>>>>> nonexistent and enforcing any behavioral norm
is often punished — by just this kind of complaint. Taxpayers on the
other hand
who have no kids in school have no idea that this kind of situation is
funded by their generosity.”
[end of excerpts]
Sounds like the War on Christmas waged by Republicans a few years ago to
make people angry enough to send them money.
Republicans fighting against what they saw as anti-religion people
waging "War on Christmas".
Christmas, what is that Christmas you are talking
about - do you mean Christ-tide by any chance?;o)
And we were so, so close winning the war against Christmas!
Back in 1640 that is, when Christmas celebrations were prohibited
in England by an Act of Parliament. And when this did not work,
closing your business on the 25th became a criminal offence in 1656.
Verily, isn't "luxurious disorderly Christmas-keeping a meere sinfull,
wicked unchristian pastimes, vanities, cultures and disguises’?
To ‘decke up Houses with Laurell, Yuie and green boughes should be
forbidden, as does any going out to entertainment, which is
‘a voluptuous and base servilitie to our filthie carnal lusts"
Indeed, should people of other faiths observe our Bacchanalian
Christmas extravagancies they would ‘thinke our Saviour to be a
glutton, an Epicure, a wine-bibber … a God of all dissolutenesse,
drunkennesse and disorder’!!!!
In the Bible there is nothing about feasting, carousing, gambling or
heathenish Christmas pastimes’; rather, ‘Glory be to God on high, on >> earth peace, good will towards men … is the Angels’, the Shepherds’ only
Christmas Caroll’, which the Virgin Mary ‘hath prefaced with this
celestiall hymne of prayse, My soule doth magnifie the Lord…’
So I hope you abstained from all ‘riotous grand-Christmasses’
and instead to ‘cordially meditated on the Scriptures"
preferably alone and in an unheated home
I looked to see if there was any informative press reporting on this >event, but all I found was the same outrage peddling. Unless something >more than Christmas decoration was involved, such as plastering the bus >windows with nativity scenes or icons of the Virgin, crossing the line >into proselytisation, I would think the most likely complainant would beIME, I have never seen any Muslim or Jewish or Hindu or other
a Christian from one of the sects that reject the Christmas festivities
as pagan.
religious leader complaining about Christmas celebrations being
offensive. What I have seen are people who take it upon themselves to
decide that followers of non-Christian religions *should* take
offence.
few are very happy about their
choices, except for the very worst of people who like the worst of Trump.
There was a time (1659) when Christmas was officially banned in the
American colonies, too, specifically in Massachusetts. By the Puritans.
But I promise to abstain from all Christmas celebrations for at least
the next ten months.
On 1/5/2024 8:35 AM, Lawyer Daggett wrote:
few are very happy about their
choices, except for the very worst of people who like the worst of Trump.
Trump gave raging assholes license to be raging assholes.
zen cycle <funkmasterxx@hotmail.com> wrote:
On 1/5/2024 8:35 AM, Lawyer Daggett wrote:
few are very happy about their
choices, except for the very worst of people who like the worst of
Trump.
Trump gave raging assholes license to be raging assholes.Isn’t the latest rage in how Trump shits himself regularly and
offends the nostrils of those around him? The alleged fart that
offended Feinstein: https://youtu.be/rjrfOcPDKfs?si=nLsHm2vGffCDeYBx
Farts are funny. Full stop.
On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 6:37:30 AM UTC-5, Martin Harran wrote:
On Sat, 23 Dec 2023 04:08:40 -0800 (PST), "broger...@gmail.com" <broger...@gmail.com> wrote:
. . .On Saturday, December 23, 2023 at 5:32:18?AM UTC-5, Martin Harran wrote:
https://www.economist.com/leaders/2024/01/04/the-man-supposed-to-stop-donald-trump-is-an-unpopular-81-year-old
<quote>
THE MAN SUPPOSED TO STOP DONALD TRUMP IS AN UNPOPULAR 81-YEAR-OLD
In failing to look past Joe Biden, Democrats have shown cowardice and complacency. ------------------------------------------------------------------------I do think much of the analysis is missing a key reason that the Dems have kept with Biden,
and indeed the reason they went with him in the first place. It's because he's milquetoast.
The reasoning goes this way. Trump seems to function politically by stirring up fear and anger,
in, shall we call them vulnerable subsets of the electorate. He harvests those who are perpetually
angry, those with oppositional defiant disorder, and I'll spare you the list from Blazing Saddles.
He points to his opponent and they get labeled with all sorts of nasties. Paradoxically, they get
labeled both as weak and a threat. This was quite effective against Hillary as it tagged unto many
decades of propaganda. But 'Uncle Joe' just can't seem to appear threatening.
This tends to take the steam out of Trump's sails for that final suite of voters he needs. For these
purposes, we'll call them swing voters but specifically the ones who don't actually like being afraid
and angry all the time. It isn't healthy.
He's tapped into those who are addicted to it, and those who are enjoying him giving them an excuse
to let their bigotry out, and those are a lost cause, even when they acknowledge he's a dangerous idiot.
So many within the Democratic Party feel that for the specific case of Trump, one needs a cooler.
Someone who takes down the temperature, extinguishes the fire. That was Biden.
But in the last 4 years, the GOP machine has been working hard to recast Biden as a horrible threat.
To some extent it's worked and you can hear people both talking about how weak and ineffective
he is while simultaneously being a threat. All through odd rumors of the Biden Crime Family and
strange inventions.
The problem is, if the Dems anointed some leader to replace him, and I frankly don't know who
that would be, it would in some sense need to be a charismatic person who would almost
certainly be a better target for the rage manufacturing machine of the GOP.
Of course there's not a hint of policy in this discussion, which ought to smell rotten to any
sensible thinking person, but policy doesn't win elections.
So the Dems are stuck, just like the GQP is stuck with Trump. And few are very happy about their
choices, except for the very worst of people who like the worst of Trump.
On 1/3/2024 10:40 AM, Mark Isaak wrote:
There was a time (1659) when Christmas was officially banned in the
American colonies, too, specifically in Massachusetts. By the Puritans.
But I promise to abstain from all Christmas celebrations for at least
the next ten months.
Which christian holiday would that be? There are at least a dozen +/- a couple of weeks of november 30 (depending on sectarian preference)
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