https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37695319/
The pdf of this article labels it as a point of view article. It is an
open access article where the authors claim that the greater depth of
the estimated phylogenetic node than an estimate based on the existing
fossil record is due to an artifact of the Baysian inference of clade origin. It is common knowledge that molecular clock estimates of
lineage separation is usually older than the first fossils of a new
branching lineage.
It sounds like it should be true if you have priors that include the
oldest known fossils, but I really do not know if the people looking at
the Cambrian diversification of bilateral animals do that. I haven't
looked into it for decades, but they used to calibrate the clock using related lineages that had a better fossil record that was dated more accurately. You didn't use the nodes that you were trying to estimate,
but Baysian methods do, do a reiteration from some original estimate.
Ron Okimoto
On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 7:22:08 PM UTC-8, erik simpson wrote:
On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 6:02:08 PM UTC-8, RonO wrote:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37695319/Bilaterian divergence took place deep in the Ediacaran, but the record is
The pdf of this article labels it as a point of view article. It is an
open access article where the authors claim that the greater depth of
the estimated phylogenetic node than an estimate based on the existing
fossil record is due to an artifact of the Baysian inference of clade
origin. It is common knowledge that molecular clock estimates of
lineage separation is usually older than the first fossils of a new
branching lineage.
It sounds like it should be true if you have priors that include the
oldest known fossils, but I really do not know if the people looking at
the Cambrian diversification of bilateral animals do that. I haven't
looked into it for decades, but they used to calibrate the clock using
related lineages that had a better fossil record that was dated more
accurately. You didn't use the nodes that you were trying to estimate,
but Baysian methods do, do a reiteration from some original estimate.
Ron Okimoto
pretty sparse. As you say, the best molecular clock estimates should beAfter looking some detail at Budd & Mann's paper, I notice that the putative
older unless you happened to find a fossil immediately after the divergence.
discovery of Ediacaran tunicates (https://doi.org/10.1007/s12542-021-00596-1) isn't mentioned. If it is indeed a tunicate, it would indicate the presence of chordates
557 Mya.
On 12/13/2023 9:33 PM, erik simpson wrote:
On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 7:22:08?PM UTC-8, erik simpson wrote:
On Wednesday, December 13, 2023 at 6:02:08?PM UTC-8, RonO wrote:After looking some detail at Budd & Mann's paper, I notice that the putative
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37695319/Bilaterian divergence took place deep in the Ediacaran, but the record is >>
The pdf of this article labels it as a point of view article. It is an >>>> open access article where the authors claim that the greater depth of
the estimated phylogenetic node than an estimate based on the existing >>>> fossil record is due to an artifact of the Baysian inference of clade
origin. It is common knowledge that molecular clock estimates of
lineage separation is usually older than the first fossils of a new
branching lineage.
It sounds like it should be true if you have priors that include the
oldest known fossils, but I really do not know if the people looking at >>>> the Cambrian diversification of bilateral animals do that. I haven't
looked into it for decades, but they used to calibrate the clock using >>>> related lineages that had a better fossil record that was dated more
accurately. You didn't use the nodes that you were trying to estimate, >>>> but Baysian methods do, do a reiteration from some original estimate.
Ron Okimoto
pretty sparse. As you say, the best molecular clock estimates should be
older unless you happened to find a fossil immediately after the divergence.
discovery of Ediacaran tunicates (https://doi.org/10.1007/s12542-021-00596-1)
isn't mentioned. If it is indeed a tunicate, it would indicate the presence of chordates
557 Mya.
It is what happened with the Human estimate. We knew that we didn't
have the fossils closer to the divergence between chimps and humans.
When we obtained more fossils the divergence started to creep towards
the older boundary. Now, it is pushing the 8 million year estimate.
The first clock with a reasonable amount of molecular data indicated 4.5
to 8 million years for the divergence between chimps and humans, and the
data favored somewhere around 5 million years, but with additional
fossils and the desire to claim them as part of our lineage there has
been a creep to older estimates. The molecular estimate is still within
the 4.5 to 8 million year range, but it looks like the fossils are
indicating that it is in the older part of the range. If we used those >fossils and their dates, you would probably be right in that the age
would extend further into the past.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37695319/
The pdf of this article labels it as a point of view article. It is an
open access article where the authors claim that the greater depth of
the estimated phylogenetic node than an estimate based on the existing
fossil record is due to an artifact of the Baysian inference of clade origin. It is common knowledge that molecular clock estimates of
lineage separation is usually older than the first fossils of a new
branching lineage.
It sounds like it should be true if you have priors that include the
oldest known fossils, but I really do not know if the people looking at
the Cambrian diversification of bilateral animals do that. I haven't
looked into it for decades, but they used to calibrate the clock using related lineages that had a better fossil record that was dated more accurately. You didn't use the nodes that you were trying to estimate,
but Baysian methods do, do a reiteration from some original estimate.
Ron Okimoto
Sysop: | Keyop |
---|---|
Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
Users: | 307 |
Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
Uptime: | 68:13:25 |
Calls: | 6,915 |
Files: | 12,379 |
Messages: | 5,431,882 |