RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:

On 12/14/2023 5:26 PM, *Hemidactylus* wrote:

RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:

On 12/14/2023 4:17 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:

RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:

On 12/12/2023 8:45 PM, *Hemidactylus* wrote:

[-]

So I should give up on you then? Maybe I don't want to. I agree the >>>>> collective dogpile has been a bit much but I'd hope you could be more >>>>> self-reflective.

You should just give up on what you are currently doing until you
understand what the situation actually is. Going forward with the same >>>> misconceptions is just stupid. Get Mark Isaac to explain it to you. My >>>> guess is that you should have realized by now that you should be more >>>> self reflective.

Ron Okimoto

Just curious.
Have you ever considered taking your own advice?

Jan

Have you considered getting together with the others in order to figure
out if you want to keep doing the stupid things that are currently
occurring?

Have you considered reading your more repetitive posts from an outsider perspective? What if you weren't you? You've already gotten enough feedback recently to see what others feel about those types of posts so you don't have to ask. Saying all these people are doing stupid things is coming from your somewhat blinkered perspective.

As an alternative your "Artifact of Baysian analysis" post has gotten positive responses.

I guess that you guys are hopeless.

Ron Okimoto

No doubt.
But I have another and less pleasant perspective for you to consider. Unpleasant, but I think at this stage it needs to be said.
Have you considered the possibility that you may be slowly dementing?

One of the distinctive symptoms is that talk and writing
become more and more repetitive and stereotyped.
New writing becomes a rehash of old writings.
Individual sentences by themselves still make sense,
but a overal sense of purpose gradually goes missing.
Pieces of boilerplate text become established,
and get inserted to hide a lack of ideas about what to say next.
The -new information- content of the writing may drop to near zero.

I have seen a study that demonstrated just this.
It could even detect the first symptoms of the onset
before the persons themselves and their close relatives
noticed much.

A well-known case was that of Iris Murdoch.
In retrospect, the onset of her Alzheimer was already evident
in het last novel. See for example: <https://hdtoday.human.cornell.edu/2017/02/21/alzheimers-early-tell-the-language-of-authors-who-suffered-from-dementia-has-a-story-for-the-rest-of-us/>
for a description of what happened.

I happen to know about a similar case of another author
who was diagnosed (after a brain scan) with advanced dementia,
while apparently still functioning more or less normally.

After the necessary unpleasantness,
there is also a positive message from the experts on this.
One of the proposed remedies is to keep the brain busy.
Drop old fixations, take up new subjects, read new books,
stop talking in always the same ways to always the same people.

It is no cure of course, but it may delay the inevitable.
And yes, this is an unpleasant message for all of us.
Many, I guess most of the posters here are at an age
where they may profit from watching themselves.
Self-reflection is part of symptom-avoidance too.

Best,

Jan
(worried)

PS If you look at our sister crackpot group s.p.r. you may see
some advanced cases still posting there.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:

RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:

On 12/14/2023 5:26 PM, *Hemidactylus* wrote:

RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:

On 12/14/2023 4:17 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:

RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:

On 12/12/2023 8:45 PM, *Hemidactylus* wrote:

[-]

So I should give up on you then? Maybe I don't want to. I agree the >>>>>>> collective dogpile has been a bit much but I'd hope you could be more >>>>>>> self-reflective.

You should just give up on what you are currently doing until you
understand what the situation actually is. Going forward with the same >>>>>> misconceptions is just stupid. Get Mark Isaac to explain it to you. My >>>>>> guess is that you should have realized by now that you should be more >>>>>> self reflective.

Ron Okimoto

Just curious.
Have you ever considered taking your own advice?

Jan

Have you considered getting together with the others in order to figure >>>> out if you want to keep doing the stupid things that are currently
occurring?

Have you considered reading your more repetitive posts from an outsider
perspective? What if you weren't you? You've already gotten enough feedback >>> recently to see what others feel about those types of posts so you don't >>> have to ask. Saying all these people are doing stupid things is coming from >>> your somewhat blinkered perspective.

As an alternative your "Artifact of Baysian analysis" post has gotten
positive responses.

I guess that you guys are hopeless.

Ron Okimoto

No doubt.
But I have another and less pleasant perspective for you to consider. Unpleasant, but I think at this stage it needs to be said.
Have you considered the possibility that you may be slowly dementing?

One of the distinctive symptoms is that talk and writing
become more and more repetitive and stereotyped.
New writing becomes a rehash of old writings.
Individual sentences by themselves still make sense,
but a overal sense of purpose gradually goes missing.
Pieces of boilerplate text become established,
and get inserted to hide a lack of ideas about what to say next.
The -new information- content of the writing may drop to near zero.

I have seen a study that demonstrated just this.
It could even detect the first symptoms of the onset
before the persons themselves and their close relatives
noticed much.

A well-known case was that of Iris Murdoch.
In retrospect, the onset of her Alzheimer was already evident
in het last novel. See for example: <https://hdtoday.human.cornell.edu/2017/02/21/alzheimers-early-tell-the-language-of-authors-who-suffered-from-dementia-has-a-story-for-the-rest-of-us/>
for a description of what happened.

I happen to know about a similar case of another author
who was diagnosed (after a brain scan) with advanced dementia,
while apparently still functioning more or less normally.

After the necessary unpleasantness,
there is also a positive message from the experts on this.
One of the proposed remedies is to keep the brain busy.
Drop old fixations, take up new subjects, read new books,
stop talking in always the same ways to always the same people.

It is no cure of course, but it may delay the inevitable.
And yes, this is an unpleasant message for all of us.
Many, I guess most of the posters here are at an age
where they may profit from watching themselves.
Self-reflection is part of symptom-avoidance too.

Best,

Jan
(worried)

PS If you look at our sister crackpot group s.p.r. you may see
some advanced cases still posting there.

This speculative online diagnosis is a load of crap JJ.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 12/15/2023 4:14 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:

RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:

On 12/14/2023 5:26 PM, *Hemidactylus* wrote:

RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:

On 12/14/2023 4:17 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:

RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:

On 12/12/2023 8:45 PM, *Hemidactylus* wrote:

[-]

So I should give up on you then? Maybe I don't want to. I agree the >>>>>>> collective dogpile has been a bit much but I'd hope you could be more >>>>>>> self-reflective.

You should just give up on what you are currently doing until you
understand what the situation actually is. Going forward with the same >>>>>> misconceptions is just stupid. Get Mark Isaac to explain it to you. My >>>>>> guess is that you should have realized by now that you should be more >>>>>> self reflective.

Ron Okimoto

Just curious.
Have you ever considered taking your own advice?

Jan

Have you considered getting together with the others in order to figure >>>> out if you want to keep doing the stupid things that are currently
occurring?

Have you considered reading your more repetitive posts from an outsider
perspective? What if you weren't you? You've already gotten enough feedback >>> recently to see what others feel about those types of posts so you don't >>> have to ask. Saying all these people are doing stupid things is coming from >>> your somewhat blinkered perspective.

As an alternative your "Artifact of Baysian analysis" post has gotten
positive responses.

I guess that you guys are hopeless.

Ron Okimoto

No doubt.
But I have another and less pleasant perspective for you to consider. Unpleasant, but I think at this stage it needs to be said.
Have you considered the possibility that you may be slowly dementing?

My guess is that Mark Isaac should be considering that. The issue
likely isn't dementia except for Dean. You, likely are just habituated
to not being able to deal with what has been going on. It is just lack
of any desire to be less ignorant because you don't want to change your opinion. That seems to be the issue with most TO regulars. This latest episode really is just making excuses for their own inability to
understand what has been going on with the IDiots on TO for over half a
decade. If you do not understand that, by now, why not? You could try
to ask Mark when it started and why it started. There is no noble cause
here, just a desire to remain willfully ignorant of reality.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using applicable terminology to
what the ID scam has been for over 2 decades. Nothing will ever change
what reality has already been. Everyone on TO just has to face the fact
that the ID scam has been just a senseless scam that the ID perps have
been running on their own creationist support base. The ID perps could
not give up on their Wedge strategy, but realized over 2 decades ago
that ID was not going to work as the Wedge. The Biblcial creationist
rubes do not like the obfuscation and denial switch scam because they
have to teach their kids too much science in order for them to
understand what to deny, and they can't tell them why they need to deny
it. The bait and switch strategy of selling the rubes the ID scam, and
then pushing off the obfuscation and denial stupidity onto them has a
dismal success rate over the last 2 decades. The ID perps might have a
notion of how many times they have run the bait and switch. There are
probably only 3 examples remaining of rubes that bent over and took the
switch scam from the ID perps. They are all currently doing nothing
with it because they do not want to implement it. Both Louisiana and
Texas have had to have had the bait and switch run on them after
accepting the switch scam because they tried to use it to teach ID, and
the ID perps had to come back and remind them that the switch scam was
supposed to have nothing to do with the ID scam. The bait and switch
has had well over a 90% failure rate for the ID perps in terms of rubes
taking the switch scam from them. They had one spectacular failure when
they ran into a group of rubes that were so stupid and dishonest that
they tried to teach the junk even after the ID perps had tried to run
the bait and switch on them. Everyone knows why the bait and switch
needed to go down because of Dover.

The Dover failure didn't matter to the ID perps. Their only way forward
with the Wedge strategy was to continue to use ID as bait, and they put
out their teach ID scam propaganda claiming that the Kitzmiller decision
was wrong, and that ID could still be taught as science in the public
schools, but the bait and switch continued to go down. Louisiana and
Texas did not bend over for the switch scam until 2008 for Louisiana and
I think around 2010 for Texas, but both states wanted to teach ID again
in 2013, and had to have the bait and switch rerun on them.

This has been the reality of the ID scam for over 2 decades. Denial
should not be an option. The ID perps perpetrate the bait and switch on
their own Biblical creationist supporters. They aren't running the scam
on the science side. They only use ID as bait, and they have never
progressed in developing any ID science, so they have continued to run
the bait and switch as their only means of pushing their Wedge goals
forward. This discussion has not been about any valid ID science since
the ID perps began running the bait and switch on their creationist
support base in March 2002. All ID has been for the ID scam is bait,
and the IDiots on TO finally realized that they never wanted to have any
valid ID science ever produced because nature just is not Biblical, and
science is just the best means we have for understanding nature.

Ron Okimoto

One of the distinctive symptoms is that talk and writing
become more and more repetitive and stereotyped.
New writing becomes a rehash of old writings.
Individual sentences by themselves still make sense,
but a overal sense of purpose gradually goes missing.
Pieces of boilerplate text become established,
and get inserted to hide a lack of ideas about what to say next.
The -new information- content of the writing may drop to near zero.

I have seen a study that demonstrated just this.
It could even detect the first symptoms of the onset
before the persons themselves and their close relatives
noticed much.

A well-known case was that of Iris Murdoch.
In retrospect, the onset of her Alzheimer was already evident
in het last novel. See for example: <https://hdtoday.human.cornell.edu/2017/02/21/alzheimers-early-tell-the-language-of-authors-who-suffered-from-dementia-has-a-story-for-the-rest-of-us/>
for a description of what happened.

I happen to know about a similar case of another author
who was diagnosed (after a brain scan) with advanced dementia,
while apparently still functioning more or less normally.

After the necessary unpleasantness,
there is also a positive message from the experts on this.
One of the proposed remedies is to keep the brain busy.
Drop old fixations, take up new subjects, read new books,
stop talking in always the same ways to always the same people.

It is no cure of course, but it may delay the inevitable.
And yes, this is an unpleasant message for all of us.
Many, I guess most of the posters here are at an age
where they may profit from watching themselves.
Self-reflection is part of symptom-avoidance too.

Best,

Jan
(worried)

PS If you look at our sister crackpot group s.p.r. you may see
some advanced cases still posting there.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2023-12-15 10:14:31 +0000, J. J. Lodder said:

RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:

On 12/14/2023 5:26 PM, *Hemidactylus* wrote:

RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:

On 12/14/2023 4:17 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:

RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:

On 12/12/2023 8:45 PM, *Hemidactylus* wrote:

[-]

So I should give up on you then? Maybe I don't want to. I agree the >>>>>>> collective dogpile has been a bit much but I'd hope you could be more >>>>>>> self-reflective.

You should just give up on what you are currently doing until you
understand what the situation actually is. Going forward with the same >>>>>> misconceptions is just stupid. Get Mark Isaac to explain it to you. My >>>>>> guess is that you should have realized by now that you should be more >>>>>> self reflective.

Ron Okimoto

Just curious.
Have you ever considered taking your own advice?

Jan

Have you considered getting together with the others in order to figure >>>> out if you want to keep doing the stupid things that are currently
occurring?

Have you considered reading your more repetitive posts from an outsider
perspective? What if you weren't you? You've already gotten enough feedback >>> recently to see what others feel about those types of posts so you don't >>> have to ask. Saying all these people are doing stupid things is coming from >>> your somewhat blinkered perspective.

As an alternative your "Artifact of Baysian analysis" post has gotten
positive responses.

I guess that you guys are hopeless.

Ron Okimoto

No doubt.
But I have another and less pleasant perspective for you to consider. Unpleasant, but I think at this stage it needs to be said.
Have you considered the possibility that you may be slowly dementing?

One of the distinctive symptoms is that talk and writing
become more and more repetitive and stereotyped.
New writing becomes a rehash of old writings.
Individual sentences by themselves still make sense,
but a overal sense of purpose gradually goes missing.
Pieces of boilerplate text become established,
and get inserted to hide a lack of ideas about what to say next.
The -new information- content of the writing may drop to near zero.

I have seen a study that demonstrated just this.
It could even detect the first symptoms of the onset
before the persons themselves and their close relatives
noticed much.

A well-known case was that of Iris Murdoch.
In retrospect, the onset of her Alzheimer was already evident
in het last novel. See for example: <https://hdtoday.human.cornell.edu/2017/02/21/alzheimers-early-tell-the-language-of-authors-who-suffered-from-dementia-has-a-story-for-the-rest-of-us/>

for a description of what happened.

I happen to know about a similar case of another author
who was diagnosed (after a brain scan) with advanced dementia,
while apparently still functioning more or less normally.

After the necessary unpleasantness,
there is also a positive message from the experts on this.
One of the proposed remedies is to keep the brain busy.
Drop old fixations, take up new subjects, read new books,
stop talking in always the same ways to always the same people.

It is no cure of course, but it may delay the inevitable.
And yes, this is an unpleasant message for all of us.
Many, I guess most of the posters here are at an age
where they may profit from watching themselves.
Self-reflection is part of symptom-avoidance too.

Best,

Jan
(worried)

PS If you look at our sister crackpot group s.p.r. you may see
some advanced cases still posting there.

Without have done a serious count I would guess that
science.physics.relativity is populated about 50% by sane people with
about 50% nutters. Worse than here, therefore, because although there
are some annoying people here (JTEM springs to mind) I don't think they
are senile. They've probably been just as stupid all their lives as
they are now.

Anyway, years ago I read about something that is now called The Nun
Study of Aging and Alzheimer's Disease. Since then I had thought that
it might have been debunked by now as pop science. But no, it was (and
is) a perfectly serious study by qualified scientists (see Wikipedia:
"Nun Study"). If you don't feel like reading the whole article, the
take-home message is that as early as 18 years old there are
significant pointers to eventual Alzheimer.

--
athel cb : Biochemical Evolution, Garland Science, 2016

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

*Hemidactylus* <ecphoric@allspamis.invalid> wrote:

J. J. Lodder <nospam@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:

RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:

On 12/14/2023 5:26 PM, *Hemidactylus* wrote:

RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:

On 12/14/2023 4:17 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:

RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:

On 12/12/2023 8:45 PM, *Hemidactylus* wrote:

[-]

So I should give up on you then? Maybe I don't want to. I agree the >>>>>>> collective dogpile has been a bit much but I'd hope you could be more >>>>>>> self-reflective.

You should just give up on what you are currently doing until you >>>>>> understand what the situation actually is. Going forward with the same
misconceptions is just stupid. Get Mark Isaac to explain it to
you. My guess is that you should have realized by now that you
should be more self reflective.

Ron Okimoto

Just curious.
Have you ever considered taking your own advice?

Jan

Have you considered getting together with the others in order to figure >>>> out if you want to keep doing the stupid things that are currently
occurring?

Have you considered reading your more repetitive posts from an
outsider perspective? What if you weren't you? You've already gotten
enough feedback recently to see what others feel about those types of
posts so you don't have to ask. Saying all these people are doing
stupid things is coming from your somewhat blinkered perspective.

As an alternative your "Artifact of Baysian analysis" post has gotten
positive responses.

I guess that you guys are hopeless.

Ron Okimoto

No doubt.
But I have another and less pleasant perspective for you to consider. Unpleasant, but I think at this stage it needs to be said.
Have you considered the possibility that you may be slowly dementing?

One of the distinctive symptoms is that talk and writing
become more and more repetitive and stereotyped.
New writing becomes a rehash of old writings.
Individual sentences by themselves still make sense,
but a overal sense of purpose gradually goes missing.
Pieces of boilerplate text become established,
and get inserted to hide a lack of ideas about what to say next.
The -new information- content of the writing may drop to near zero.

I have seen a study that demonstrated just this.
It could even detect the first symptoms of the onset
before the persons themselves and their close relatives
noticed much.

A well-known case was that of Iris Murdoch.
In retrospect, the onset of her Alzheimer was already evident
in het last novel. See for example: <https://hdtoday.human.cornell.edu/2017/02/21/alzheimers-early-tell-the-lang

uage-of-authors-who-suffered-from-dementia-has-a-story-for-the-rest-of-us/>

for a description of what happened.

I happen to know about a similar case of another author
who was diagnosed (after a brain scan) with advanced dementia,
while apparently still functioning more or less normally.

After the necessary unpleasantness,
there is also a positive message from the experts on this.
One of the proposed remedies is to keep the brain busy.
Drop old fixations, take up new subjects, read new books,
stop talking in always the same ways to always the same people.

It is no cure of course, but it may delay the inevitable.
And yes, this is an unpleasant message for all of us.
Many, I guess most of the posters here are at an age
where they may profit from watching themselves.
Self-reflection is part of symptom-avoidance too.

Best,

Jan
(worried)

PS If you look at our sister crackpot group s.p.r. you may see
some advanced cases still posting there.

This speculative online diagnosis is a load of crap JJ.

Let's hope so,

Jan
(but do look at the reply)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Athel Cornish-Bowden <me@yahoo.com> wrote:

On 2023-12-15 10:14:31 +0000, J. J. Lodder said:

RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:

On 12/14/2023 5:26 PM, *Hemidactylus* wrote:

RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:

On 12/14/2023 4:17 AM, J. J. Lodder wrote:

RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:

On 12/12/2023 8:45 PM, *Hemidactylus* wrote:

[-]

So I should give up on you then? Maybe I don't want to. I agree the >>>>>>> collective dogpile has been a bit much but I'd hope you could be more >>>>>>> self-reflective.

You should just give up on what you are currently doing until you >>>>>> understand what the situation actually is. Going forward with the same
misconceptions is just stupid. Get Mark Isaac to explain it to
you. My guess is that you should have realized by now that you
should be more self reflective.

Ron Okimoto

Just curious.
Have you ever considered taking your own advice?

Jan

Have you considered getting together with the others in order to figure >>>> out if you want to keep doing the stupid things that are currently
occurring?

Have you considered reading your more repetitive posts from an
outsider perspective? What if you weren't you? You've already gotten
enough feedback recently to see what others feel about those types of
posts so you don't have to ask. Saying all these people are doing
stupid things is coming from your somewhat blinkered perspective.

As an alternative your "Artifact of Baysian analysis" post has gotten
positive responses.

I guess that you guys are hopeless.

Ron Okimoto

No doubt.
But I have another and less pleasant perspective for you to consider. Unpleasant, but I think at this stage it needs to be said.
Have you considered the possibility that you may be slowly dementing?

One of the distinctive symptoms is that talk and writing
become more and more repetitive and stereotyped.
New writing becomes a rehash of old writings.
Individual sentences by themselves still make sense,
but a overal sense of purpose gradually goes missing.
Pieces of boilerplate text become established,
and get inserted to hide a lack of ideas about what to say next.
The -new information- content of the writing may drop to near zero.

I have seen a study that demonstrated just this.
It could even detect the first symptoms of the onset
before the persons themselves and their close relatives
noticed much.

A well-known case was that of Iris Murdoch.
In retrospect, the onset of her Alzheimer was already evident
in het last novel. See for example: <https://hdtoday.human.cornell.edu/2017/02/21/alzheimers-early-tell-the-lang

uage-of-authors-who-suffered-from-dementia-has-a-story-for-the-rest-of-us/>

for a description of what happened.

I happen to know about a similar case of another author
who was diagnosed (after a brain scan) with advanced dementia,
while apparently still functioning more or less normally.

After the necessary unpleasantness,
there is also a positive message from the experts on this.
One of the proposed remedies is to keep the brain busy.
Drop old fixations, take up new subjects, read new books,
stop talking in always the same ways to always the same people.

It is no cure of course, but it may delay the inevitable.
And yes, this is an unpleasant message for all of us.
Many, I guess most of the posters here are at an age
where they may profit from watching themselves.
Self-reflection is part of symptom-avoidance too.

Best,

Jan
(worried)

PS If you look at our sister crackpot group s.p.r. you may see
some advanced cases still posting there.

Without have done a serious count I would guess that science.physics.relativity is populated about 50% by sane people with
about 50% nutters. Worse than here, therefore, because although there
are some annoying people here (JTEM springs to mind) I don't think they
are senile. They've probably been just as stupid all their lives as
they are now.

[For T.O.] There is the sad case there of the man
who invented the theory of everything,
and wrote a whole book about it.
Unfortunately, for all his 'genius', he is incapable
of posting a working weblink to it. (so no one has ever seen it)

Anyway, years ago I read about something that is now called The Nun
Study of Aging and Alzheimer's Disease. Since then I had thought that
it might have been debunked by now as pop science. But no, it was (and
is) a perfectly serious study by qualified scientists (see Wikipedia:
"Nun Study").

Explicitly:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nun_Study>

If you don't feel like reading the whole article, the
take-home message is that as early as 18 years old there are
significant pointers to eventual Alzheimer.

Early Alzheimer tends to be overlooked.
(if you are not prepared to see it)

And it seems to be getting worse.
There are good grounds for believing that increased pesticide exposure
is a risk factor for both Alzheimer's and Parkinson's.
(and all of us are getting too much of it)

Jan

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

peter2...@gmail.com <peter2nyikos@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, December 15, 2023 at 10:07:09?AM UTC-5, J. J. Lodder wrote:

*Hemidactylus* <ecph...@allspamis.invalid> wrote:

J. J. Lodder <nos...@de-ster.demon.nl> wrote:

[best forgotten stuff]

There is probably some truth to your diagnosis of a lesser flaw in Ron Okimoto's behavior, JJ, but even if it is completely on target, it misses what is the most serious flaw in his behavior: he is a pathological liar.

Dear Peter,
you realy shouldn't be posting to T.O. in this way.
Could you stop with it?

Back in 2011 [-]

Could you stop that to?

Jan

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)