On 11/16/2023 11:00 AM, John Harshman wrote:

I've deleted the previous post because this post isn't to Harshman, but
a general post to the rest of TO, and I want to keep this post in the
thread associated with the Nyikosian evidence that this is just what the reality of TO is.

I was hoping that Nyikos had stopped posting, but that looks like a
forlorn hope. I haven't seen evidence that any posts have been deleted
by the killfile for a while. He should have been banned. You likely
realize that Nyikos was responsible for likely over 70% of my post about
the Discovery Institute and the bait and switch since his return Dec
2010. The bait and switch was a topic under discussion because the
Louisiana rubes had had the bait and switch run on them for the second
time after they tried to use their switch scam legislation to teach ID
in their public schools in 2010. The Texas IDiots were also talking
about implementing the switch scam at that time (Texas had had the bait
and switch run on them before Dover, but had didle farted around with
respect to the switch scam unable to decide if they wanted to teach the
switch scam junk if they could not tell the kids why they had to deny
the science). The ID perps had to run the bait and switch on the
Louisiana IDiots and remind them that the switch scam had nothing to do
with ID.

It was Nyikos' incessant denial of reality, and perpetually lying about
the issue that resulted in most of the discussion about that topic since
he restarted posting. It was the first thing that he was wrong about
upon his return and he decided to lie about it forever after. Nyikos
would go on for months before he reached his limit for lying and
misdirecting the argument back and forth. Only after he had reached his
limit would he have to dodder off and recharge his lying meter. I
didn't come up with the holy water reposts until around 2014. The first
holy water repost cut his stupid harassment to 2 or 3 weeks before he
had to take a month or two off to regenerate his lying meter. All of TO
was subjected to that stupidity since his return. The holy water
reposts worked because Nyikos would have to lie about too many of the
usual things that he lied about, and he reached his limit for lying more quickly. He might jump to another thread, but I could just repost the
holy water repost.

Even the current series of posts is due to the Nykosian stupidity. It
is just that in defending the asshole it turned out that many of the TO regulars (except for the exIDiots) had missed the boat on what happened
to TO after the Top Six came out. This was likely due to the Nykosian
effect of dulling everyone's senses as to what reality actually is.
Nyikos was one of the first IDiotic creationist supporters on TO back
before most of us knew what ID was. He was about the only one that
supported Julie Thomas even though she never could tell anyone what the
ID science was supposed to be. Nyikos had to quit posting before the ID
scam became the predominant creationist ploy on TO, and probably more
than a year before the first bait and switch went down on Ohio. Nyikos
is one of the reasons that calling IDiots, IDiots is a badge of honor
for the ID perps and their IDiotic creationist support base. There may
have never been an honest creationist poster who supported the ID scam
on TO even before the bait and switch went down. It turned out that in
order to claim to be an IDiot you had to lie about your religious
motivations because that was part of the political ploy. All IDiots
were dishonest in that respect. Look at Kalkidas. He pretended to be
hindu all those years in order to make his support for the ID scam look
more legitimate than it actually was. The moniker IDiot isn't a
misnomer it is just a description that points in the correct direction
for what IDiots actually have always been, and most of them have been
much worse than idiots.

Dover demonstrated that even the creationists who supported the ID scam
knew that the bait and switch had been going down for years, and that
claiming that the ID scam artists were perps was accurate in what they
were doing, but lacking in describing just how morally bankrupt the
whole enterprise had been. These were scam artists claiming the moral
high ground while running a stupid bait and switch scam on the
creationist rubes who had believed them because they knew that they did
not have any science worth teaching. It remains a fact, to this day,
that ID has only been used as the bait by the ID perps at the Discovery Institute so that they could bend the creationists rubes over and give
them the switch scam. A switch scam that they tell the rubes has
nothing to do with the ID science. Nothing positive was ever created out
of the ID scam junk. When the ID perps were stupid enough to present
their best gap denial evidence as the Top Six in the order in which they
must have occurred in this universe the IDiots that were left on TO
could not deal with reality and most of them stopped being IDiots. It
wasn't just TO. I noted that uncommon descent could not deal with the
Top Six nor Luskin's subsequent junk about what ID was supposed to be
and how it should be supported. Uncommon descent died after the Top Six
came out. Just as the ID scam has pretty much died here on TO. Only
Nyikos and Glenn remain IDiotic supporters of the creationist ID scam.
I don't count Dean and MarkE because Dean isn't competent enough to
understand the situation, and MarkE likely never bought into the ID
scam, he just can't give up on the god-of-the-gaps denial stupidity even
though he doesn't want to believe in the god that fills the gaps. Like
TO the only IDiots left at uncommon descent were diehard willfully
ignorant Biblical creationists, but the Top Six was too much to deny.
The IDiots realized that they had never wanted the ID perps to ever
accomplish any ID science. Any ID science would just be more science to
deny.

Nyikos is an IDiot that has been lying about the ID scam since his
return to TO. Nyikos makes the whole case for why no one on TO should
have any profound misconceptions as to what happened after the ID perps presented the Top Six to the creationist rubes. How Nyikos dealt with
the Top Six with respect to his space alien ploy demonstrated that it
had all been a ruse to cover his creationist beliefs. Nyikos really did propose that his space alien designers could be god-like and come from
outside of our universe in order to account for the Top Six. Why would
anyone keep pretending that they were talking about space aliens after
that admission? All the IDiots remaining after the bait and switch
started to go down were willing rubes. I have put up the More lawyer's
own description, in this thread, of his understanding of what the ID
perps had been doing in places like Ohio, and he still wanted to use the
ID scam to get creationism taught in the public schools.

Ron Okimoto

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thursday, November 16, 2023 at 10:36:41 PM UTC-5, RonO wrote:

On 11/16/2023 11:00 AM, John Harshman wrote:

I've deleted the previous post because this post isn't to Harshman, but
a general post to the rest of TO, and I want to keep this post in the
thread associated with the Nyikosian evidence that this is just what the reality of TO is.

I was hoping that Nyikos had stopped posting, but that looks like a
forlorn hope. I haven't seen evidence that any posts have been deleted
by the killfile for a while. He should have been banned. You likely
realize that Nyikos was responsible for likely over 70% of my post about
the Discovery Institute and the bait and switch since his return Dec
2010. The bait and switch was a topic under discussion because the
Louisiana rubes had had the bait and switch run on them for the second
time after they tried to use their switch scam legislation to teach ID
in their public schools in 2010. The Texas IDiots were also talking
about implementing the switch scam at that time (Texas had had the bait
and switch run on them before Dover, but had didle farted around with respect to the switch scam unable to decide if they wanted to teach the switch scam junk if they could not tell the kids why they had to deny
the science). The ID perps had to run the bait and switch on the
Louisiana IDiots and remind them that the switch scam had nothing to do
with ID.

It was Nyikos' incessant denial of reality, and perpetually lying about
the issue that resulted in most of the discussion about that topic since
he restarted posting. It was the first thing that he was wrong about
upon his return and he decided to lie about it forever after. Nyikos
would go on for months before he reached his limit for lying and misdirecting the argument back and forth. Only after he had reached his limit would he have to dodder off and recharge his lying meter. I
didn't come up with the holy water reposts until around 2014. The first
holy water repost cut his stupid harassment to 2 or 3 weeks before he
had to take a month or two off to regenerate his lying meter. All of TO
was subjected to that stupidity since his return. The holy water
reposts worked because Nyikos would have to lie about too many of the
usual things that he lied about, and he reached his limit for lying more quickly. He might jump to another thread, but I could just repost the
holy water repost.

Even the current series of posts is due to the Nykosian stupidity. It
is just that in defending the asshole it turned out that many of the TO regulars (except for the exIDiots) had missed the boat on what happened
to TO after the Top Six came out. This was likely due to the Nykosian
effect of dulling everyone's senses as to what reality actually is.
Nyikos was one of the first IDiotic creationist supporters on TO back
before most of us knew what ID was. He was about the only one that
supported Julie Thomas even though she never could tell anyone what the
ID science was supposed to be. Nyikos had to quit posting before the ID
scam became the predominant creationist ploy on TO, and probably more
than a year before the first bait and switch went down on Ohio. Nyikos
is one of the reasons that calling IDiots, IDiots is a badge of honor
for the ID perps and their IDiotic creationist support base. There may
have never been an honest creationist poster who supported the ID scam
on TO even before the bait and switch went down. It turned out that in
order to claim to be an IDiot you had to lie about your religious motivations because that was part of the political ploy. All IDiots
were dishonest in that respect. Look at Kalkidas. He pretended to be
hindu all those years in order to make his support for the ID scam look
more legitimate than it actually was. The moniker IDiot isn't a
misnomer it is just a description that points in the correct direction
for what IDiots actually have always been, and most of them have been
much worse than idiots.

Dover demonstrated that even the creationists who supported the ID scam
knew that the bait and switch had been going down for years, and that claiming that the ID scam artists were perps was accurate in what they
were doing, but lacking in describing just how morally bankrupt the
whole enterprise had been. These were scam artists claiming the moral
high ground while running a stupid bait and switch scam on the
creationist rubes who had believed them because they knew that they did
not have any science worth teaching. It remains a fact, to this day,
that ID has only been used as the bait by the ID perps at the Discovery Institute so that they could bend the creationists rubes over and give
them the switch scam. A switch scam that they tell the rubes has
nothing to do with the ID science. Nothing positive was ever created out
of the ID scam junk. When the ID perps were stupid enough to present
their best gap denial evidence as the Top Six in the order in which they must have occurred in this universe the IDiots that were left on TO
could not deal with reality and most of them stopped being IDiots. It
wasn't just TO. I noted that uncommon descent could not deal with the
Top Six nor Luskin's subsequent junk about what ID was supposed to be
and how it should be supported. Uncommon descent died after the Top Six
came out. Just as the ID scam has pretty much died here on TO. Only
Nyikos and Glenn remain IDiotic supporters of the creationist ID scam.
I don't count Dean and MarkE because Dean isn't competent enough to understand the situation, and MarkE likely never bought into the ID
scam, he just can't give up on the god-of-the-gaps denial stupidity even though he doesn't want to believe in the god that fills the gaps. Like
TO the only IDiots left at uncommon descent were diehard willfully
ignorant Biblical creationists, but the Top Six was too much to deny.
The IDiots realized that they had never wanted the ID perps to ever accomplish any ID science. Any ID science would just be more science to deny.

Nyikos is an IDiot that has been lying about the ID scam since his
return to TO. Nyikos makes the whole case for why no one on TO should
have any profound misconceptions as to what happened after the ID perps presented the Top Six to the creationist rubes. How Nyikos dealt with
the Top Six with respect to his space alien ploy demonstrated that it
had all been a ruse to cover his creationist beliefs. Nyikos really did propose that his space alien designers could be god-like and come from outside of our universe in order to account for the Top Six. Why would anyone keep pretending that they were talking about space aliens after
that admission? All the IDiots remaining after the bait and switch
started to go down were willing rubes. I have put up the More lawyer's
own description, in this thread, of his understanding of what the ID
perps had been doing in places like Ohio, and he still wanted to use the
ID scam to get creationism taught in the public schools.

Ron Okimoto

You are the only one responsible for your posts.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 11/17/2023 4:25 AM, broger...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, November 16, 2023 at 10:36:41 PM UTC-5, RonO wrote:

On 11/16/2023 11:00 AM, John Harshman wrote:

I've deleted the previous post because this post isn't to Harshman, but
a general post to the rest of TO, and I want to keep this post in the
thread associated with the Nyikosian evidence that this is just what the
reality of TO is.

I was hoping that Nyikos had stopped posting, but that looks like a
forlorn hope. I haven't seen evidence that any posts have been deleted
by the killfile for a while. He should have been banned. You likely
realize that Nyikos was responsible for likely over 70% of my post about
the Discovery Institute and the bait and switch since his return Dec
2010. The bait and switch was a topic under discussion because the
Louisiana rubes had had the bait and switch run on them for the second
time after they tried to use their switch scam legislation to teach ID
in their public schools in 2010. The Texas IDiots were also talking
about implementing the switch scam at that time (Texas had had the bait
and switch run on them before Dover, but had didle farted around with
respect to the switch scam unable to decide if they wanted to teach the
switch scam junk if they could not tell the kids why they had to deny
the science). The ID perps had to run the bait and switch on the
Louisiana IDiots and remind them that the switch scam had nothing to do
with ID.

It was Nyikos' incessant denial of reality, and perpetually lying about
the issue that resulted in most of the discussion about that topic since
he restarted posting. It was the first thing that he was wrong about
upon his return and he decided to lie about it forever after. Nyikos
would go on for months before he reached his limit for lying and
misdirecting the argument back and forth. Only after he had reached his
limit would he have to dodder off and recharge his lying meter. I
didn't come up with the holy water reposts until around 2014. The first
holy water repost cut his stupid harassment to 2 or 3 weeks before he
had to take a month or two off to regenerate his lying meter. All of TO
was subjected to that stupidity since his return. The holy water
reposts worked because Nyikos would have to lie about too many of the
usual things that he lied about, and he reached his limit for lying more
quickly. He might jump to another thread, but I could just repost the
holy water repost.

Even the current series of posts is due to the Nykosian stupidity. It
is just that in defending the asshole it turned out that many of the TO
regulars (except for the exIDiots) had missed the boat on what happened
to TO after the Top Six came out. This was likely due to the Nykosian
effect of dulling everyone's senses as to what reality actually is.
Nyikos was one of the first IDiotic creationist supporters on TO back
before most of us knew what ID was. He was about the only one that
supported Julie Thomas even though she never could tell anyone what the
ID science was supposed to be. Nyikos had to quit posting before the ID
scam became the predominant creationist ploy on TO, and probably more
than a year before the first bait and switch went down on Ohio. Nyikos
is one of the reasons that calling IDiots, IDiots is a badge of honor
for the ID perps and their IDiotic creationist support base. There may
have never been an honest creationist poster who supported the ID scam
on TO even before the bait and switch went down. It turned out that in
order to claim to be an IDiot you had to lie about your religious
motivations because that was part of the political ploy. All IDiots
were dishonest in that respect. Look at Kalkidas. He pretended to be
hindu all those years in order to make his support for the ID scam look
more legitimate than it actually was. The moniker IDiot isn't a
misnomer it is just a description that points in the correct direction
for what IDiots actually have always been, and most of them have been
much worse than idiots.

Dover demonstrated that even the creationists who supported the ID scam
knew that the bait and switch had been going down for years, and that
claiming that the ID scam artists were perps was accurate in what they
were doing, but lacking in describing just how morally bankrupt the
whole enterprise had been. These were scam artists claiming the moral
high ground while running a stupid bait and switch scam on the
creationist rubes who had believed them because they knew that they did
not have any science worth teaching. It remains a fact, to this day,
that ID has only been used as the bait by the ID perps at the Discovery
Institute so that they could bend the creationists rubes over and give
them the switch scam. A switch scam that they tell the rubes has
nothing to do with the ID science. Nothing positive was ever created out
of the ID scam junk. When the ID perps were stupid enough to present
their best gap denial evidence as the Top Six in the order in which they
must have occurred in this universe the IDiots that were left on TO
could not deal with reality and most of them stopped being IDiots. It
wasn't just TO. I noted that uncommon descent could not deal with the
Top Six nor Luskin's subsequent junk about what ID was supposed to be
and how it should be supported. Uncommon descent died after the Top Six
came out. Just as the ID scam has pretty much died here on TO. Only
Nyikos and Glenn remain IDiotic supporters of the creationist ID scam.
I don't count Dean and MarkE because Dean isn't competent enough to
understand the situation, and MarkE likely never bought into the ID
scam, he just can't give up on the god-of-the-gaps denial stupidity even
though he doesn't want to believe in the god that fills the gaps. Like
TO the only IDiots left at uncommon descent were diehard willfully
ignorant Biblical creationists, but the Top Six was too much to deny.
The IDiots realized that they had never wanted the ID perps to ever
accomplish any ID science. Any ID science would just be more science to
deny.

Nyikos is an IDiot that has been lying about the ID scam since his
return to TO. Nyikos makes the whole case for why no one on TO should
have any profound misconceptions as to what happened after the ID perps
presented the Top Six to the creationist rubes. How Nyikos dealt with
the Top Six with respect to his space alien ploy demonstrated that it
had all been a ruse to cover his creationist beliefs. Nyikos really did
propose that his space alien designers could be god-like and come from
outside of our universe in order to account for the Top Six. Why would
anyone keep pretending that they were talking about space aliens after
that admission? All the IDiots remaining after the bait and switch
started to go down were willing rubes. I have put up the More lawyer's
own description, in this thread, of his understanding of what the ID
perps had been doing in places like Ohio, and he still wanted to use the
ID scam to get creationism taught in the public schools.

Ron Okimoto

You are the only one responsible for your posts.

That is true, but Nyikos made those posts necessary, and kept the topic
going by his incessant harassment with his stupid lies about the past.
Just read what he is still writing about the subject. Nyikos has been
in denial of what the ID perps have been doing since he returned to TO.
He fully understood that he was wrong about the subject, but because he
had some weird idea that he had never lost an internet exchange and was
some type of internet superman, Nyikos had to start lying about the
topic and never stopped. His stupid lie about never losing an exchange
on the internet was an obvious lie by the time that he put it out a few
months after his return because in his first post back on TO he had been
wrong about something and had to run in denial. He told me to hop to
getting the evidence, and when I did he ran, and to this day has never addressed that post. That is the type of person that is responsible for
the ID perps stupid and dishonest behavior being a major issue discussed
on TO. Even as Nyikos witnessed multiple bait and switch incidences
going down he kept up his denial and kept lying about the subject at
every opportunity.

It is just a fact that no creationist IDiotic rubes have ever gotten the
ID science to teach from the ID perps. Teaching ID in the public
schools was part of the Wedge strategy, and they doubled down on the
claim after Dover by putting up their teach ID scam advice to educators claiming that the judges decision was wrong and that ID could still be
taught in the public schools. Their lies didn't matter because every
time any group of rubes wants to teach the junk the ID perps have run
the bait and switch and only give the rubes an obfuscation and denial
switch scam that they claim has nothing to do with the ID science.
Nyikos was fully aware that this was happening, but what is he still
doing? This has been the reality that TO has had to deal with.

You should understand what was going on, and what happened with the Top
Six. Denial due to false blame isn't anyway forward. Most of you were
wrong about what was happening, and it only came out when you wanted to
defend an asshole like Nyikos. Nyikos was the primary reason TO had to constantly deal with the dishonest behavior of the ID perps.

Ron Okimoto

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thursday, November 16, 2023 at 10:36:41 PM UTC-5, RonO wrote:

On 11/16/2023 11:00 AM, John Harshman wrote:

I've deleted the previous post because this post isn't to Harshman,

Harshman hasn't mentioned a single thing Ron O has written
on this thread, and I doubt that he ever will.

but a general post to the rest of TO, and I want to keep this post in the thread associated with the Nyikosian evidence that this is just what the reality of TO is.

I was hoping that Nyikos had stopped posting, but that looks like a
forlorn hope.

Ron O is so self-centered, he has no clue as to what
keeps me posting to talk.origins. I search for the few bits of scientific, on-topic gold that come to the surface now and then, almost
accidentally, but there is more of it than on any other Usenet
group having to do with hard science.

Even Ron O contributes once in several blue moons, but his most
violent reactions to me have come when I made a few corrections to two of his most on-topic posts, once on turtle ancestry and once on woolly rhinoceroses. His reactions on what I've done at other times are mild in comparison.

I haven't seen evidence that any posts have been deleted
by the killfile for a while. He should have been banned. You likely
realize that Nyikos was responsible for likely over 70% of my post about
the Discovery Institute and the bait and switch since his return Dec
2010.

Ron O never posted anything credible about bait since 2002, and the 70% of which Ron O writes was pure overkill about what would
have been a "switch," had there been bait. I'm reminded of
the definition of "insanity" which is falsely attributed to Einstein:
"doing the same thing over and over in hopes of getting a different result."

The bait and switch was a topic under discussion because the
Louisiana rubes had had the bait and switch run on them for the second
time after they tried to use their switch scam

Ron is already getting tired of writing "bait and," perhaps because his subconscious mind has nothing to back it up with.

legislation to teach ID
in their public schools in 2010. The Texas IDiots were also talking
about implementing the switch scam

There it is again, sans "bait and".

at that time (Texas had had the bait
and switch run on them before Dover, but had didle farted around with respect to the switch scam unable to decide if they wanted to teach the switch scam junk if they could not tell the kids why they had to deny
the science). The ID perps had to run the bait and switch on the
Louisiana IDiots and remind them that the switch scam had nothing to do
with ID.

None of this is the least bit intelligible since no REAL description
of what went on has escaped Ron O's keyboard.

It was Nyikos' incessant denial of reality,

Nonexistent.

and perpetually lying about
the issue

Never began.

that resulted in most of the discussion about that topic since
he restarted posting. It was the first thing that he was wrong about
upon his return

No identification provided of what I was allegedly wrong about.

and he decided to lie about it forever after.

It appears that Ron O shares Martin Harran's private, self-serving
definition of "lie": unretracted statement after being told by Martin that
it is wrong -- told, not convincingly shown, mind you.

Nyikos would go on for months before he reached his limit for lying

Lying by Ron O, that is. Ron would keep trying to get the last word
in, and when he seemed to be just repeating himself or getting
completely irrelevant, I decided it best to move on.

misdirecting the argument back and forth. Only after he had reached his limit would he have to dodder off and recharge his lying meter. I
didn't come up with the holy water reposts until around 2014.

This near-blasphemous use of "holy water" is a reference
to Ron O reposting huge volumes of the same repetitious crap, and ignoring
what I wrote about some parts of it. This new tactic got me to decide
earlier than before that it was pointless to go on.

The first
holy water repost cut his stupid harassment to 2 or 3 weeks before he
had to take a month or two off to regenerate his lying meter.

Ron O is so self-centered, it never occurs to him that there were
much more interesting things and people to whom to respond
for months at a time. If Ron O hadn't started abusing others,
I would have stopped much longer.

All of TO
was subjected to that stupidity since his return. The holy water
reposts worked because Nyikos would have to lie about too many of the
usual things that he lied about, and he reached his limit for lying more quickly. He might jump to another thread, but I could just repost the
holy water repost.

Ron O has already forgotten how this abruptly came to an end with
me responding to him many more than three times, and he panicked
at how his imaginary "holy water" wasn't having the same effect
as it was before.

[This happened several years ago, and is not to be confused
with this year's panic attack that had Ron O petitioning DIG to ban me.]

It was only because several adversaries of mine
tried to calm him down that he came over his panic. One example
sticks in my mind: Erik Simpson playing "good cop" to Ron O's "bad cop"
by telling Ron O that I "bore" him most of
the time and he hardly pays any attention to me any more.

This is something Simpson has repeated since then on other occasions, but
he cannot break himself of the habit of dishonestly attacking me,
many times a year. He may, of course, be bored with life in general,
and these personal attacks are a good way for him to break the boredom.

Even the current series of posts is due to the Nykosian stupidity. It
is just that in defending the asshole it turned out that many of the TO regulars (except for the exIDiots) had missed the boat on what happened
to TO after the Top Six came out. This was likely due to the Nykosian
effect of dulling everyone's senses as to what reality actually is.
Nyikos was one of the first IDiotic creationist supporters on TO

I never supported creationism in my life. Ron O is indulging in wishful thinking.
I was an adversary of Ray Martinez almost from the beginning, but Ron O
was so afraid to debate Ray that he announced that he would never
respond to Ray, on the grounds that Ray was "insane." But I think
any objective psychiatrist would say that Ron O's behavior on t.o.
was noticeably more disturbed mentally than Ray's.

I believe Ron O really avoided Ray because he knew Ray could
see through Ron O's claims to be a Christian or even a believer
in a creator. Ron O wouldn't have been able to stand up to a concerted
attack on his alleged religious beliefs from the two of us.

before most of us knew what ID was. He was about the only one that
supported Julie Thomas

This was back around 1997, when most current t.o. participants hadn't yet posted here.
Julie Thomas knew more biochemistry than anyone posting then, except
Laurence Moran, and so they had to indulge in dirty tactics against her.

Before she left after only a year or so of posting, Moran had developed a grudging respect for her,
and even advised her to ignore most of the people who were attacking her without showing real aptitude towards the complex issues involved.

If Ron O ever attacked Julie, I never saw it, but he would have fit that category.

Nyikos had to quit posting before the ID
scam became the predominant creationist ploy on TO,

I quit posting cold turkey about the middle of 2001,
because I wanted that sabbatical year to be a good one.
And it was so good that I decided to devote myself
to other matters.

Got to go now. Some of those other matters take precedence
over posting about this time each evening, as they
do every weekend. Back before the latter half of 2001 my weekends were
about as devoted to posting as on weekdays. Never again.


Peter Nyikos
Professor, Dept. of Mathematics -- standard disclaimer--
Univ. of South Carolina at Columbia
https://people.math.sc.edu/nyikos

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 19:32:51 -0800 (PST), "peter2...@gmail.com" <peter2nyikos@gmail.com> wrote:


[...]

It appears that Ron O shares Martin Harran's private, self-serving
definition of "lie": unretracted statement after being told by Martin that
it is wrong -- told, not convincingly shown, mind you.

And there you go again. You appear to be able to control your
obnoxiousness for a maximum of about 4 weeks and then it breaks out
again.

I'm sure you could get help with that if you really tried. Except, of
course, that you don't seem to want to try, you prefer wallowing in
your obnoxiousness.

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Martin Harran <martinharran@gmail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 19:32:51 -0800 (PST), "peter2...@gmail.com" <peter2nyikos@gmail.com> wrote:

[...]

It appears that Ron O shares Martin Harran's private, self-serving
definition of "lie": unretracted statement after being told by Martin that >> it is wrong -- told, not convincingly shown, mind you.

And there you go again. You appear to be able to control your
obnoxiousness for a maximum of about 4 weeks and then it breaks out
again.

I'm sure you could get help with that if you really tried. Except, of
course, that you don't seem to want to try, you prefer wallowing in
your obnoxiousness.

I hadn’t seen you as part of this thread until now so why he invoked you is
a matter of question. Does he crave conflict?

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On Wed, 22 Nov 2023 11:12:03 +0000, *Hemidactylus*
<ecphoric@allspamis.invalid> wrote:

Martin Harran <martinharran@gmail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 19:32:51 -0800 (PST), "peter2...@gmail.com"
<peter2nyikos@gmail.com> wrote:


[...]

It appears that Ron O shares Martin Harran's private, self-serving
definition of "lie": unretracted statement after being told by Martin that >>> it is wrong -- told, not convincingly shown, mind you.

And there you go again. You appear to be able to control your
obnoxiousness for a maximum of about 4 weeks and then it breaks out
again.

I'm sure you could get help with that if you really tried. Except, of
course, that you don't seem to want to try, you prefer wallowing in
your obnoxiousness.

I hadn’t seen you as part of this thread until now so why he invoked you is
a matter of question. Does he crave conflict?

No, I haven't took part at all in this thread and haven't posted here
at all for just over 3 weeks. When did that sort of thing ever stop
Peter from being a total prick?

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Martin Harran makes no attempt to deny the truth of what I wrote.
He just resents being reminded about it, and expresses his resentment
by calling my reminder "obnoxious."

Martin is a kindred spirit of Ron Okimoto. Telling unflattering truths, whether about Ron O or correcting mistakes by him, is me being "assoholic" in the World According to Ron O.


On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 4:16:47 AM UTC-5, Martin Harran wrote:

On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 19:32:51 -0800 (PST), "peter2...@gmail.com" <peter2...@gmail.com> wrote:

[...]

It appears that Ron O shares Martin Harran's private, self-serving >definition of "lie": unretracted statement after being told by Martin that >it is wrong -- told, not convincingly shown, mind you.

And there you go again. You appear to be able to control your
obnoxiousness for a maximum of about 4 weeks and then it breaks out
again.

This is very much like something Ron O wrote about me in the part
Martin deleted:

"The first holy water repost cut his stupid harassment to 2 or 3 weeks before he
had to take a month or two off to regenerate his lying meter."

One thing I'll say for RonO: even in the midst of committing libel,
he displays a modest sense of humor with this comment.
I haven't seen Martin display anything like it, except perhaps when he
was still calling himself AlwaysAskingQuestions.

I'm sure you could get help with that if you really tried. Except, of course, that you don't seem to want to try, you prefer wallowing in
your obnoxiousness.

Martin tops it all off with a self-righteous closing paragraph, with overtones of gaslighting.
No surprise there.


Peter Nyikos

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On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 6:16:46 AM UTC-5, *Hemidactylus* wrote:

Martin Harran <martin...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 19:32:51 -0800 (PST), "peter2...@gmail.com" <peter2...@gmail.com> wrote:

[...]

It appears that Ron O shares Martin Harran's private, self-serving
definition of "lie": unretracted statement after being told by Martin that
it is wrong -- told, not convincingly shown, mind you.

And there you go again.

<snip rest of Martin's spiel, preserved in a reply I did to him mere minutes ago>

I hadn’t seen you as part of this thread until now so why he invoked you is
a matter of question. Does he crave conflict?

Why do you ask Martin rather than me?

I invoked Martin because he has clearly spelled out the only way I can make sense of Ron O's pathological use of the word "lie" in the post to which I was replying. Without the example of Martin, my guess as to Ron O's usage
might have seemed like a bolt out of the blue, and not taken seriously by anyone.


Peter Nyikos

PS Why the loaded question at the end? I haven't been "craving conflict"
with you on the thread where we've had an on-topic conversation today.

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On Wed, 22 Nov 2023 14:58:55 -0800 (PST), "peter2...@gmail.com" <peter2nyikos@gmail.com> wrote:

Martin Harran makes no attempt to deny the truth of what I wrote.
He just resents being reminded about it, and expresses his resentment
by calling my reminder "obnoxious."

Martin is a kindred spirit of Ron Okimoto. Telling unflattering truths, whether
about Ron O or correcting mistakes by him, is me being "assoholic" in the World According to Ron O.

On Wednesday, November 22, 2023 at 4:16:47?AM UTC-5, Martin Harran wrote:

On Mon, 20 Nov 2023 19:32:51 -0800 (PST), "peter2...@gmail.com"
<peter2...@gmail.com> wrote:


[...]

It appears that Ron O shares Martin Harran's private, self-serving
definition of "lie": unretracted statement after being told by Martin that >> >it is wrong -- told, not convincingly shown, mind you.

And there you go again. You appear to be able to control your
obnoxiousness for a maximum of about 4 weeks and then it breaks out
again.

This is very much like something Ron O wrote about me in the part
Martin deleted:

"The first holy water repost cut his stupid harassment to 2 or 3 weeks before he
had to take a month or two off to regenerate his lying meter."

One thing I'll say for RonO: even in the midst of committing libel,
he displays a modest sense of humor with this comment.
I haven't seen Martin display anything like it, except perhaps when he
was still calling himself AlwaysAskingQuestions.

I'm sure you could get help with that if you really tried. Except, of
course, that you don't seem to want to try, you prefer wallowing in
your obnoxiousness.

Martin tops it all off with a self-righteous closing paragraph, with overtones of gaslighting.
No surprise there.

Gosh, Peter, this really is a particularly bad outbreak, perhaps you
have kept pent up too long your instinctive disposition towards
obnoxiousness.

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On 11/17/2023 6:20 AM, RonO wrote:

On 11/17/2023 4:25 AM, broger...@gmail.com wrote:

On Thursday, November 16, 2023 at 10:36:41 PM UTC-5, RonO wrote:

On 11/16/2023 11:00 AM, John Harshman wrote:

Are there any others that want to maintain their ignorance of what has
been happening on TO for the last 20 years? It is apparent that most of
the TO regulars (except for the IDiots) had a profound misconception of
what happened when the ID perps were stupid enough to put out their Top
Six in "their order simply reflecting that in which they must logically
have occurred within our universe." back in Nov. 2017. Nyikos has had
to lie about the ID scam since his return to TO, and has been the major
reason that the bait and switch has been a persistent topic on TO since
his return. This seems to have dulled any rational perspective on this
issue, and everyone was primed to miss what was likely the most
significant event that has ever occurred on TO with respect to the creationist's ID scam. Even Nyikos understood that I had not been
refuting the Top Six, he was just willfully ignorant of why all the
other IDiots could not deal with them in an honest and straightforward
manner. The ID perps killed ID on TO with their own stupid presentation
of their best evidence for the ID scam. It turned out that none of the
IDiots posting on TO have ever wanted the ID perps to succeed in
developing any legitimate ID science because it would just be more
science to deny. You all have to take responsibility for your own misconceptions about what happened. Reality is never going to change.
Letting the misconceptions fester is stupid when you consider that ID is essentially dead on TO. Things have been what they are since the ID
perps started running the bait and switch scam on their own creationist
support base back in Ohio in 2002. Since that time the ID perps have
never used ID for anything except as bait so that they could continue
their Wedge goals by pushing off their obfuscation and science denial
switch scam onto the creationist rubes. The only purpose of the switch
scam is to keep the students as ignorant as possible about the
sciientific description of nature so that they can be enticed by the
bait and continue to support the ID perp's Wedge goals.

The IDiots understood that science is the best means we have developed
to understand nature, and IDiotic type Biblical creationists took up the
ID scam after the failure of scientific creationism. IDiots like
Kalkidas, and Bill quit the ID scam because it turned out that there
wasn't any ID science that they ever wanted to accomplish. Nature in
this reality isn't Biblical enough for the type of IDiots that took up
the ID scam because they were already in denial of the existing science.
Any science whether it was accomplished by the ID perps or real
scientists would have just been more science to deny.

That is why ID died on TO after the ID perps fed the rubes the Top Six,
but not as independent bits of fire and forget denial, but as a coherent
group that had to fit into what science has already been able to
understand about nature.

QUOTE:
So here they are, their order simply reflecting that in which they must logically have occurred within our universe.
END QUOTE:

https://evolutionnews.org/2017/11/ids-top-six-the-origin-of-the-universe/

The designer that fills the Top Six gaps in their logical order is not
the Biblical designer. I noted that it wasn't just the TO IDiots that
couldn't deal with the Top Six in an honest and straightforward manner.
The IDiots at Uncommon Descent could not deal with the Top Six, and
Uncommon Descent has been shut down. The ID perps do not allow comments
on their web pages, and continue to use ID as the bait, but everyone
should know that no one is ever going to get the ID science from them,
and if they have a clue the Top Six should have killed the ID scam for
pretty much every IDiot in existence. Now, more than ever the only
IDiots left are the ignorant, incompetent, and or dishonest. It has
been that way for decades.

Anyone that wants to maintain their misconceptions should put up their
evidence for what they think happened to kill ID on TO, and has happened
for over 20 years of the ID scam bait and switch going down on
creationist rubes that supported the ID scam. The ID perps do not run
the bait and switch on the science side of the issue. They have always
run the bait and switch on their own creationists support base.

Ron Okimoto

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