Kalk and Bill should provide their opinion on why the ID creationist
scam still has a group of creationists pushing the scam and continuing
to run the bait and switch on creationist rubes. The ID perps are still claiming to have the ID science to teach in the public schools, but all
they have used ID for is as the bait in order to run in a switch scam
that they claim has nothing to do with the ID science.
Why are the ID perps tolerated, and who would support them when the bait
and switch has been going down for over 20 years? Kalkidas now claims
that the ID scam is no longer anything that he thinks is worth thinking about. He claims that the Top Six evidences for IDiocy just became
something that wasn't worth considering any longer. When the Top Six
were presented in their logical order of occurrence in this universe
Bill just claimed that he had never supported the ID scam. There is no
doubt that Bill had been a supporter of the creationist ID scam since he started posting. He had just never supported what it had actually been
all those years. Bill likely began to understand that he had never
wanted to support the ID creation science because he stopped putting up
the junk and had started his "reality doesn't exist" routine a couple
years before the Top Six were presented as a related group to the
IDiots. Science is just the best means we have developed to understand nature, and it turned out that for creationists that believed that
nature was the Biblical creation, nature just is not Biblical. Even if
the ID perps had been able to fill their gaps with a god, it would not
have been the god of the Bible. Kalkidas and Bill had never wanted the
ID perps to succeed in filling their god-of the-gaps denial junk with scientific evidence that some god existed. It all would have just been
more science for them to deny.
Bill likely realized this fact before the Top Six rubbed their faces in
the current scientific reality. Paul Nelson has been an ID perps from
the start of the Discovery Institute's ID scam unit, and he has likely understood that there was never any ID science that he wanted to see accomplished. Early on Behe and Denton had informed the creationist
rubes that they could not expect much to change about our understanding
of nature with any IDiotic successes. They were both theistic
evolutionists, and understood that any IDiotic science would just add to
the science that already existed. Nelson is always quoted for his
statement around the time of the Dover Fiasco that the ID science did
not exist, but that the ID perps were trying very hard to produce some viable ID science. I recall Nelson making similar statements much
earlier than that. He had already made similar claims when the first
bait and switch went down on the Ohio rubes in 2002. Nelson is a young
earth creationist Biblical ID perp. He likely would have never joined
up with the ID scam if they had had any real ID science because the ID
perps have always lied to the rubes about ID being a "Big Tent" where
all forms of creationism were welcomed. All of the ID "science" would
have just supported old earth creationism, and likely wouldn't even
support the old earth Biblical creationists like they have at Reason to Believe who claim to be IDiots. Nature just is not Biblical, and the
ancient "designed" creation events occur out of Biblical order. Nelson
has likely known this from the beginning, and would have quit the ID
scam if any ID science had ever been verified. He has just been willing
to go along with the scam, for as long as no ID science was ever
attempted and accomplished.
Pagano understood immediately what the Top Six meant, and claimed that
they were bogus and not the best evidence for the creationist ID scam.
The Top Six did not support Pagano's old earth geocentric creationist beliefs. Pagano quit posting. Kalkidas and Bill are no longer IDiotic creationist. Why do ID perps still exist to continue to run the bait
and switch on hapless creationist rubes?
Current IDiotic Propaganda about teaching the science of ID in the
public schools. They had updated this pdf in 2021, but have since
reformated the site and seem to have reverted to the 2018 version: https://www.discovery.org/f/1453/
Even the ID perps can't deal with their own Top Six: https://groups.google.com/g/talk.origins/c/a2K79skPGXI/m/uDwx0i-_BAAJ
Ron Okimoto
Kalk and Bill should provide their opinion on why the ID creationist
scam still has a group of creationists pushing the scam and continuing
to run the bait and switch on creationist rubes. The ID perps are still >claiming to have the ID science to teach in the public schools, but all
they have used ID for is as the bait in order to run in a switch scam
that they claim has nothing to do with the ID science.
Why are the ID perps tolerated, and who would support them when the bait
and switch has been going down for over 20 years? Kalkidas now claims
that the ID scam is no longer anything that he thinks is worth thinking >about. He claims that the Top Six evidences for IDiocy just became >something that wasn't worth considering any longer. When the Top Six
were presented in their logical order of occurrence in this universe
Bill just claimed that he had never supported the ID scam. There is no >doubt that Bill had been a supporter of the creationist ID scam since he >started posting. He had just never supported what it had actually been
all those years. Bill likely began to understand that he had never
wanted to support the ID creation science because he stopped putting up
the junk and had started his "reality doesn't exist" routine a couple
years before the Top Six were presented as a related group to the
IDiots. Science is just the best means we have developed to understand >nature, and it turned out that for creationists that believed that
nature was the Biblical creation, nature just is not Biblical. Even if
the ID perps had been able to fill their gaps with a god, it would not
have been the god of the Bible. Kalkidas and Bill had never wanted the
ID perps to succeed in filling their god-of the-gaps denial junk with >scientific evidence that some god existed. It all would have just been
more science for them to deny.
Bill likely realized this fact before the Top Six rubbed their faces in
the current scientific reality. Paul Nelson has been an ID perps from
the start of the Discovery Institute's ID scam unit, and he has likely >understood that there was never any ID science that he wanted to see >accomplished. Early on Behe and Denton had informed the creationist
rubes that they could not expect much to change about our understanding
of nature with any IDiotic successes. They were both theistic >evolutionists, and understood that any IDiotic science would just add to
the science that already existed. Nelson is always quoted for his
statement around the time of the Dover Fiasco that the ID science did
not exist, but that the ID perps were trying very hard to produce some >viable ID science. I recall Nelson making similar statements much
earlier than that. He had already made similar claims when the first
bait and switch went down on the Ohio rubes in 2002. Nelson is a young >earth creationist Biblical ID perp. He likely would have never joined
up with the ID scam if they had had any real ID science because the ID
perps have always lied to the rubes about ID being a "Big Tent" where
all forms of creationism were welcomed. All of the ID "science" would
have just supported old earth creationism, and likely wouldn't even
support the old earth Biblical creationists like they have at Reason to >Believe who claim to be IDiots. Nature just is not Biblical, and the >ancient "designed" creation events occur out of Biblical order. Nelson
has likely known this from the beginning, and would have quit the ID
scam if any ID science had ever been verified. He has just been willing
to go along with the scam, for as long as no ID science was ever
attempted and accomplished.
Pagano understood immediately what the Top Six meant, and claimed that
they were bogus and not the best evidence for the creationist ID scam.
The Top Six did not support Pagano's old earth geocentric creationist >beliefs. Pagano quit posting. Kalkidas and Bill are no longer IDiotic >creationist. Why do ID perps still exist to continue to run the bait
and switch on hapless creationist rubes?
Current IDiotic Propaganda about teaching the science of ID in the
public schools. They had updated this pdf in 2021, but have since >reformated the site and seem to have reverted to the 2018 version: >https://www.discovery.org/f/1453/
Even the ID perps can't deal with their own Top Six: >https://groups.google.com/g/talk.origins/c/a2K79skPGXI/m/uDwx0i-_BAAJ
Ron Okimoto
On Sat, 4 Nov 2023 09:06:18 -0500, RonO <roki...@cox.net> wrote:
Kalk and Bill should provide their opinion on why the ID creationist
scam still has a group of creationists pushing the scam and continuing
to run the bait and switch on creationist rubes. The ID perps are still >claiming to have the ID science to teach in the public schools, but all >they have used ID for is as the bait in order to run in a switch scam
that they claim has nothing to do with the ID science.
Why are the ID perps tolerated, and who would support them when the bait >and switch has been going down for over 20 years? Kalkidas now claims
that the ID scam is no longer anything that he thinks is worth thinking >about. He claims that the Top Six evidences for IDiocy just became >something that wasn't worth considering any longer. When the Top Six
were presented in their logical order of occurrence in this universe
Bill just claimed that he had never supported the ID scam. There is no >doubt that Bill had been a supporter of the creationist ID scam since he >started posting. He had just never supported what it had actually been
all those years. Bill likely began to understand that he had never
wanted to support the ID creation science because he stopped putting up >the junk and had started his "reality doesn't exist" routine a couple >years before the Top Six were presented as a related group to the
IDiots. Science is just the best means we have developed to understand >nature, and it turned out that for creationists that believed that
nature was the Biblical creation, nature just is not Biblical. Even if
the ID perps had been able to fill their gaps with a god, it would not >have been the god of the Bible. Kalkidas and Bill had never wanted the
ID perps to succeed in filling their god-of the-gaps denial junk with >scientific evidence that some god existed. It all would have just been >more science for them to deny.
Bill likely realized this fact before the Top Six rubbed their faces in >the current scientific reality. Paul Nelson has been an ID perps from
the start of the Discovery Institute's ID scam unit, and he has likely >understood that there was never any ID science that he wanted to see >accomplished. Early on Behe and Denton had informed the creationist
rubes that they could not expect much to change about our understanding
of nature with any IDiotic successes. They were both theistic >evolutionists, and understood that any IDiotic science would just add to >the science that already existed. Nelson is always quoted for his >statement around the time of the Dover Fiasco that the ID science did
not exist, but that the ID perps were trying very hard to produce some >viable ID science. I recall Nelson making similar statements much
earlier than that. He had already made similar claims when the first
bait and switch went down on the Ohio rubes in 2002. Nelson is a young >earth creationist Biblical ID perp. He likely would have never joined
up with the ID scam if they had had any real ID science because the ID >perps have always lied to the rubes about ID being a "Big Tent" where
all forms of creationism were welcomed. All of the ID "science" would
have just supported old earth creationism, and likely wouldn't even >support the old earth Biblical creationists like they have at Reason to >Believe who claim to be IDiots. Nature just is not Biblical, and the >ancient "designed" creation events occur out of Biblical order. Nelson
has likely known this from the beginning, and would have quit the ID
scam if any ID science had ever been verified. He has just been willing
to go along with the scam, for as long as no ID science was ever
attempted and accomplished.
Pagano understood immediately what the Top Six meant, and claimed that >they were bogus and not the best evidence for the creationist ID scam.
The Top Six did not support Pagano's old earth geocentric creationist >beliefs. Pagano quit posting. Kalkidas and Bill are no longer IDiotic >creationist. Why do ID perps still exist to continue to run the bait
and switch on hapless creationist rubes?
Current IDiotic Propaganda about teaching the science of ID in the
public schools. They had updated this pdf in 2021, but have since >reformated the site and seem to have reverted to the 2018 version: >https://www.discovery.org/f/1453/
Even the ID perps can't deal with their own Top Six: >https://groups.google.com/g/talk.origins/c/a2K79skPGXI/m/uDwx0i-_BAAJ
Ron OkimotoThe following is a point utterly orthogonal to the substance of all
that you say above, yet is important in its own way.
I assume no regular reader of T.O. would make such a mistake, but a
naive reader might confuse your "Bill" to refer to Bill Rogers, who is
a more prolific poster to T.O. than is the Freon Bill persona I assume
you refer above.
Just as you would likely distinguish "Ron Okimoto" from "Ron Dean", I
am here recommending that your future posts make a similar distinction between "Bill Rogers" and "Freon Bill".
That is all.
--
To know less than we don't know is the nature of most knowledge
On Saturday, November 4, 2023 at 11:56:29 AM UTC-4, jillery wrote:
On Sat, 4 Nov 2023 09:06:18 -0500, RonO <roki...@cox.net> wrote:
Kalk and Bill should provide their opinion on why the ID creationistThe following is a point utterly orthogonal to the substance of all
scam still has a group of creationists pushing the scam and continuing
to run the bait and switch on creationist rubes. The ID perps are still
claiming to have the ID science to teach in the public schools, but all
they have used ID for is as the bait in order to run in a switch scam
that they claim has nothing to do with the ID science.
Why are the ID perps tolerated, and who would support them when the bait >>> and switch has been going down for over 20 years? Kalkidas now claims
that the ID scam is no longer anything that he thinks is worth thinking
about. He claims that the Top Six evidences for IDiocy just became
something that wasn't worth considering any longer. When the Top Six
were presented in their logical order of occurrence in this universe
Bill just claimed that he had never supported the ID scam. There is no
doubt that Bill had been a supporter of the creationist ID scam since he >>> started posting. He had just never supported what it had actually been
all those years. Bill likely began to understand that he had never
wanted to support the ID creation science because he stopped putting up
the junk and had started his "reality doesn't exist" routine a couple
years before the Top Six were presented as a related group to the
IDiots. Science is just the best means we have developed to understand
nature, and it turned out that for creationists that believed that
nature was the Biblical creation, nature just is not Biblical. Even if
the ID perps had been able to fill their gaps with a god, it would not
have been the god of the Bible. Kalkidas and Bill had never wanted the
ID perps to succeed in filling their god-of the-gaps denial junk with
scientific evidence that some god existed. It all would have just been
more science for them to deny.
Bill likely realized this fact before the Top Six rubbed their faces in
the current scientific reality. Paul Nelson has been an ID perps from
the start of the Discovery Institute's ID scam unit, and he has likely
understood that there was never any ID science that he wanted to see
accomplished. Early on Behe and Denton had informed the creationist
rubes that they could not expect much to change about our understanding
of nature with any IDiotic successes. They were both theistic
evolutionists, and understood that any IDiotic science would just add to >>> the science that already existed. Nelson is always quoted for his
statement around the time of the Dover Fiasco that the ID science did
not exist, but that the ID perps were trying very hard to produce some
viable ID science. I recall Nelson making similar statements much
earlier than that. He had already made similar claims when the first
bait and switch went down on the Ohio rubes in 2002. Nelson is a young
earth creationist Biblical ID perp. He likely would have never joined
up with the ID scam if they had had any real ID science because the ID
perps have always lied to the rubes about ID being a "Big Tent" where
all forms of creationism were welcomed. All of the ID "science" would
have just supported old earth creationism, and likely wouldn't even
support the old earth Biblical creationists like they have at Reason to
Believe who claim to be IDiots. Nature just is not Biblical, and the
ancient "designed" creation events occur out of Biblical order. Nelson
has likely known this from the beginning, and would have quit the ID
scam if any ID science had ever been verified. He has just been willing
to go along with the scam, for as long as no ID science was ever
attempted and accomplished.
Pagano understood immediately what the Top Six meant, and claimed that
they were bogus and not the best evidence for the creationist ID scam.
The Top Six did not support Pagano's old earth geocentric creationist
beliefs. Pagano quit posting. Kalkidas and Bill are no longer IDiotic
creationist. Why do ID perps still exist to continue to run the bait
and switch on hapless creationist rubes?
Current IDiotic Propaganda about teaching the science of ID in the
public schools. They had updated this pdf in 2021, but have since
reformated the site and seem to have reverted to the 2018 version:
https://www.discovery.org/f/1453/
Even the ID perps can't deal with their own Top Six:
https://groups.google.com/g/talk.origins/c/a2K79skPGXI/m/uDwx0i-_BAAJ
Ron Okimoto
that you say above, yet is important in its own way.
I assume no regular reader of T.O. would make such a mistake, but a
naive reader might confuse your "Bill" to refer to Bill Rogers, who is
a more prolific poster to T.O. than is the Freon Bill persona I assume
you refer above.
Just as you would likely distinguish "Ron Okimoto" from "Ron Dean", I
am here recommending that your future posts make a similar distinction
between "Bill Rogers" and "Freon Bill".
That is all.
--
To know less than we don't know is the nature of most knowledge
One might, or one might decide to ignore Ron Okimoto for his obnoxious behavior. There is a nearly unanimous agreement that consistently invoking the names of other posters into threads they did not personally join is
a very rude thing to do. This is true whether one advertises that they are a professor or are more demur about it. Ron has some relevant knowledge
but his behavior makes me think of him as the least valuable player on t.o.
On Saturday, November 4, 2023 at 11:56:29 AM UTC-4, jillery wrote:
On Sat, 4 Nov 2023 09:06:18 -0500, RonO <roki...@cox.net> wrote:
Kalk and Bill should provide their opinion on why the ID creationist >scam still has a group of creationists pushing the scam and continuing >to run the bait and switch on creationist rubes. The ID perps are still >claiming to have the ID science to teach in the public schools, but all >they have used ID for is as the bait in order to run in a switch scam >that they claim has nothing to do with the ID science.
Why are the ID perps tolerated, and who would support them when the bait >and switch has been going down for over 20 years? Kalkidas now claims >that the ID scam is no longer anything that he thinks is worth thinking >about. He claims that the Top Six evidences for IDiocy just became >something that wasn't worth considering any longer. When the Top Six >were presented in their logical order of occurrence in this universe >Bill just claimed that he had never supported the ID scam. There is no >doubt that Bill had been a supporter of the creationist ID scam since he >started posting. He had just never supported what it had actually been >all those years. Bill likely began to understand that he had never >wanted to support the ID creation science because he stopped putting up >the junk and had started his "reality doesn't exist" routine a couple >years before the Top Six were presented as a related group to the >IDiots. Science is just the best means we have developed to understand >nature, and it turned out that for creationists that believed that >nature was the Biblical creation, nature just is not Biblical. Even if >the ID perps had been able to fill their gaps with a god, it would not >have been the god of the Bible. Kalkidas and Bill had never wanted the >ID perps to succeed in filling their god-of the-gaps denial junk with >scientific evidence that some god existed. It all would have just been >more science for them to deny.
Bill likely realized this fact before the Top Six rubbed their faces in >the current scientific reality. Paul Nelson has been an ID perps from >the start of the Discovery Institute's ID scam unit, and he has likely >understood that there was never any ID science that he wanted to see >accomplished. Early on Behe and Denton had informed the creationist >rubes that they could not expect much to change about our understanding >of nature with any IDiotic successes. They were both theistic >evolutionists, and understood that any IDiotic science would just add to >the science that already existed. Nelson is always quoted for his >statement around the time of the Dover Fiasco that the ID science did >not exist, but that the ID perps were trying very hard to produce some >viable ID science. I recall Nelson making similar statements much >earlier than that. He had already made similar claims when the first >bait and switch went down on the Ohio rubes in 2002. Nelson is a young >earth creationist Biblical ID perp. He likely would have never joined
up with the ID scam if they had had any real ID science because the ID >perps have always lied to the rubes about ID being a "Big Tent" where >all forms of creationism were welcomed. All of the ID "science" would >have just supported old earth creationism, and likely wouldn't even >support the old earth Biblical creationists like they have at Reason to >Believe who claim to be IDiots. Nature just is not Biblical, and the >ancient "designed" creation events occur out of Biblical order. Nelson >has likely known this from the beginning, and would have quit the ID >scam if any ID science had ever been verified. He has just been willing >to go along with the scam, for as long as no ID science was ever >attempted and accomplished.
Pagano understood immediately what the Top Six meant, and claimed that >they were bogus and not the best evidence for the creationist ID scam. >The Top Six did not support Pagano's old earth geocentric creationist >beliefs. Pagano quit posting. Kalkidas and Bill are no longer IDiotic >creationist. Why do ID perps still exist to continue to run the bait
and switch on hapless creationist rubes?
Current IDiotic Propaganda about teaching the science of ID in the >public schools. They had updated this pdf in 2021, but have since >reformated the site and seem to have reverted to the 2018 version: >https://www.discovery.org/f/1453/
Even the ID perps can't deal with their own Top Six: >https://groups.google.com/g/talk.origins/c/a2K79skPGXI/m/uDwx0i-_BAAJ
Ron OkimotoThe following is a point utterly orthogonal to the substance of all
that you say above, yet is important in its own way.
I assume no regular reader of T.O. would make such a mistake, but a
naive reader might confuse your "Bill" to refer to Bill Rogers, who is
a more prolific poster to T.O. than is the Freon Bill persona I assume
you refer above.
Just as you would likely distinguish "Ron Okimoto" from "Ron Dean", I
am here recommending that your future posts make a similar distinction between "Bill Rogers" and "Freon Bill".
That is all.
One might, or one might decide to ignore Ron Okimoto for his obnoxious behavior. There is a nearly unanimous agreement that consistently invoking the names of other posters into threads they did not personally join is
a very rude thing to do. This is true whether one advertises that they are a professor or are more demur about it. Ron has some relevant knowledge
but his behavior makes me think of him as the least valuable player on t.o.
scam ...scam...
bait and switch...rubes. ...perps ...
...
.bait...switch scam
...
...perps...bait
...
...scam ...
...IDiocy...
...scam....
...scam...
...
...
...junk...
...
IDiots....
...
...perps...
...
...perps...denial junk...
...rubbed their faces...
...perps...
.scam unit...
...
rubes...
...IDiotic.
...IDiotic...
...
...perps...
...
bait and switch...rubes...
...perp....
...scam...
perps...rubes...
...
...IDiots....
...
scam ...
...scam,...
...
...scam.
...IDiotic
...perps...bait
and switch...rubes?
....IDiotic ...
...
...perps...
On Saturday, November 4, 2023 at 12:31:30 PM UTC-4, Lawyer Daggett wrote:
On Saturday, November 4, 2023 at 11:56:29 AM UTC-4, jillery wrote:
On Sat, 4 Nov 2023 09:06:18 -0500, RonO <roki...@cox.net> wrote:One might, or one might decide to ignore Ron Okimoto for his obnoxious
Kalk and Bill should provide their opinion on why the ID creationistThe following is a point utterly orthogonal to the substance of all
scam still has a group of creationists pushing the scam and continuing >>>> to run the bait and switch on creationist rubes. The ID perps are still >>>> claiming to have the ID science to teach in the public schools, but all >>>> they have used ID for is as the bait in order to run in a switch scam
that they claim has nothing to do with the ID science.
Why are the ID perps tolerated, and who would support them when the bait >>>> and switch has been going down for over 20 years? Kalkidas now claims
that the ID scam is no longer anything that he thinks is worth thinking >>>> about. He claims that the Top Six evidences for IDiocy just became
something that wasn't worth considering any longer. When the Top Six
were presented in their logical order of occurrence in this universe
Bill just claimed that he had never supported the ID scam. There is no >>>> doubt that Bill had been a supporter of the creationist ID scam since he >>>> started posting. He had just never supported what it had actually been >>>> all those years. Bill likely began to understand that he had never
wanted to support the ID creation science because he stopped putting up >>>> the junk and had started his "reality doesn't exist" routine a couple
years before the Top Six were presented as a related group to the
IDiots. Science is just the best means we have developed to understand >>>> nature, and it turned out that for creationists that believed that
nature was the Biblical creation, nature just is not Biblical. Even if >>>> the ID perps had been able to fill their gaps with a god, it would not >>>> have been the god of the Bible. Kalkidas and Bill had never wanted the >>>> ID perps to succeed in filling their god-of the-gaps denial junk with
scientific evidence that some god existed. It all would have just been >>>> more science for them to deny.
Bill likely realized this fact before the Top Six rubbed their faces in >>>> the current scientific reality. Paul Nelson has been an ID perps from
the start of the Discovery Institute's ID scam unit, and he has likely >>>> understood that there was never any ID science that he wanted to see
accomplished. Early on Behe and Denton had informed the creationist
rubes that they could not expect much to change about our understanding >>>> of nature with any IDiotic successes. They were both theistic
evolutionists, and understood that any IDiotic science would just add to >>>> the science that already existed. Nelson is always quoted for his
statement around the time of the Dover Fiasco that the ID science did
not exist, but that the ID perps were trying very hard to produce some >>>> viable ID science. I recall Nelson making similar statements much
earlier than that. He had already made similar claims when the first
bait and switch went down on the Ohio rubes in 2002. Nelson is a young >>>> earth creationist Biblical ID perp. He likely would have never joined
up with the ID scam if they had had any real ID science because the ID >>>> perps have always lied to the rubes about ID being a "Big Tent" where
all forms of creationism were welcomed. All of the ID "science" would
have just supported old earth creationism, and likely wouldn't even
support the old earth Biblical creationists like they have at Reason to >>>> Believe who claim to be IDiots. Nature just is not Biblical, and the
ancient "designed" creation events occur out of Biblical order. Nelson >>>> has likely known this from the beginning, and would have quit the ID
scam if any ID science had ever been verified. He has just been willing >>>> to go along with the scam, for as long as no ID science was ever
attempted and accomplished.
Pagano understood immediately what the Top Six meant, and claimed that >>>> they were bogus and not the best evidence for the creationist ID scam. >>>> The Top Six did not support Pagano's old earth geocentric creationist
beliefs. Pagano quit posting. Kalkidas and Bill are no longer IDiotic
creationist. Why do ID perps still exist to continue to run the bait
and switch on hapless creationist rubes?
Current IDiotic Propaganda about teaching the science of ID in the
public schools. They had updated this pdf in 2021, but have since
reformated the site and seem to have reverted to the 2018 version:
https://www.discovery.org/f/1453/
Even the ID perps can't deal with their own Top Six:
https://groups.google.com/g/talk.origins/c/a2K79skPGXI/m/uDwx0i-_BAAJ
Ron Okimoto
that you say above, yet is important in its own way.
I assume no regular reader of T.O. would make such a mistake, but a
naive reader might confuse your "Bill" to refer to Bill Rogers, who is
a more prolific poster to T.O. than is the Freon Bill persona I assume
you refer above.
Just as you would likely distinguish "Ron Okimoto" from "Ron Dean", I
am here recommending that your future posts make a similar distinction
between "Bill Rogers" and "Freon Bill".
That is all.
behavior. There is a nearly unanimous agreement that consistently invoking >> the names of other posters into threads they did not personally join is
a very rude thing to do. This is true whether one advertises that they are a >> professor or are more demur about it. Ron has some relevant knowledge
but his behavior makes me think of him as the least valuable player on t.o.
You illustrate above a good example of how different posters use different reasons for ignoring other posters. I agree invoking other posters' names usually is annoying, especially when it's used as a form of quotemining.
But it would be difficult to not mention other posters when the topic involves the history of T.O., and especially inside an original post to such topics. For these reasons, IMO this particular instance isn't obnoxious enough to consider ignoring him. Apparently your mileage varies.
On 11/4/2023 7:06 AM, RonO wrote:
scam ...scam...
bait and switch...rubes. ...perps ...
...
.bait...switch scam ...
...perps...bait ... ...scam ...
...IDiocy... ...scam....
...scam...
...
...
...junk...
...
IDiots....
...
...perps...
...
...perps...denial junk...
...rubbed their faces...
...perps...
.scam unit... ...
rubes... ...IDiotic.
...IDiotic...
...
...perps...
...
bait and switch...rubes...
...perp....
...scam...
perps...rubes...
...
...IDiots....
...
scam ...
...scam,...
...
...scam.
...IDiotic
...perps...bait and switch...rubes?
....IDiotic ... ...
...perps...
That's why.
On 11/5/2023 3:08 AM, jillery wrote:
On Saturday, November 4, 2023 at 12:31:30?PM UTC-4, Lawyer Daggett wrote: >>> On Saturday, November 4, 2023 at 11:56:29?AM UTC-4, jillery wrote:
You illustrate above a good example of how different posters use different >> reasons for ignoring other posters. I agree invoking other posters' names >> usually is annoying, especially when it's used as a form of quotemining.On Sat, 4 Nov 2023 09:06:18 -0500, RonO <roki...@cox.net> wrote:One might, or one might decide to ignore Ron Okimoto for his obnoxious
Kalk and Bill should provide their opinion on why the ID creationist >>>>> scam still has a group of creationists pushing the scam and continuing >>>>> to run the bait and switch on creationist rubes. The ID perps are still >>>>> claiming to have the ID science to teach in the public schools, but all >>>>> they have used ID for is as the bait in order to run in a switch scam >>>>> that they claim has nothing to do with the ID science.The following is a point utterly orthogonal to the substance of all
Why are the ID perps tolerated, and who would support them when the bait >>>>> and switch has been going down for over 20 years? Kalkidas now claims >>>>> that the ID scam is no longer anything that he thinks is worth thinking >>>>> about. He claims that the Top Six evidences for IDiocy just became
something that wasn't worth considering any longer. When the Top Six >>>>> were presented in their logical order of occurrence in this universe >>>>> Bill just claimed that he had never supported the ID scam. There is no >>>>> doubt that Bill had been a supporter of the creationist ID scam since he >>>>> started posting. He had just never supported what it had actually been >>>>> all those years. Bill likely began to understand that he had never
wanted to support the ID creation science because he stopped putting up >>>>> the junk and had started his "reality doesn't exist" routine a couple >>>>> years before the Top Six were presented as a related group to the
IDiots. Science is just the best means we have developed to understand >>>>> nature, and it turned out that for creationists that believed that
nature was the Biblical creation, nature just is not Biblical. Even if >>>>> the ID perps had been able to fill their gaps with a god, it would not >>>>> have been the god of the Bible. Kalkidas and Bill had never wanted the >>>>> ID perps to succeed in filling their god-of the-gaps denial junk with >>>>> scientific evidence that some god existed. It all would have just been >>>>> more science for them to deny.
Bill likely realized this fact before the Top Six rubbed their faces in >>>>> the current scientific reality. Paul Nelson has been an ID perps from >>>>> the start of the Discovery Institute's ID scam unit, and he has likely >>>>> understood that there was never any ID science that he wanted to see >>>>> accomplished. Early on Behe and Denton had informed the creationist
rubes that they could not expect much to change about our understanding >>>>> of nature with any IDiotic successes. They were both theistic
evolutionists, and understood that any IDiotic science would just add to >>>>> the science that already existed. Nelson is always quoted for his
statement around the time of the Dover Fiasco that the ID science did >>>>> not exist, but that the ID perps were trying very hard to produce some >>>>> viable ID science. I recall Nelson making similar statements much
earlier than that. He had already made similar claims when the first >>>>> bait and switch went down on the Ohio rubes in 2002. Nelson is a young >>>>> earth creationist Biblical ID perp. He likely would have never joined >>>>> up with the ID scam if they had had any real ID science because the ID >>>>> perps have always lied to the rubes about ID being a "Big Tent" where >>>>> all forms of creationism were welcomed. All of the ID "science" would >>>>> have just supported old earth creationism, and likely wouldn't even
support the old earth Biblical creationists like they have at Reason to >>>>> Believe who claim to be IDiots. Nature just is not Biblical, and the >>>>> ancient "designed" creation events occur out of Biblical order. Nelson >>>>> has likely known this from the beginning, and would have quit the ID >>>>> scam if any ID science had ever been verified. He has just been willing >>>>> to go along with the scam, for as long as no ID science was ever
attempted and accomplished.
Pagano understood immediately what the Top Six meant, and claimed that >>>>> they were bogus and not the best evidence for the creationist ID scam. >>>>> The Top Six did not support Pagano's old earth geocentric creationist >>>>> beliefs. Pagano quit posting. Kalkidas and Bill are no longer IDiotic >>>>> creationist. Why do ID perps still exist to continue to run the bait >>>>> and switch on hapless creationist rubes?
Current IDiotic Propaganda about teaching the science of ID in the
public schools. They had updated this pdf in 2021, but have since
reformated the site and seem to have reverted to the 2018 version:
https://www.discovery.org/f/1453/
Even the ID perps can't deal with their own Top Six:
https://groups.google.com/g/talk.origins/c/a2K79skPGXI/m/uDwx0i-_BAAJ >>>>>
Ron Okimoto
that you say above, yet is important in its own way.
I assume no regular reader of T.O. would make such a mistake, but a
naive reader might confuse your "Bill" to refer to Bill Rogers, who is >>>> a more prolific poster to T.O. than is the Freon Bill persona I assume >>>> you refer above.
Just as you would likely distinguish "Ron Okimoto" from "Ron Dean", I
am here recommending that your future posts make a similar distinction >>>> between "Bill Rogers" and "Freon Bill".
That is all.
behavior. There is a nearly unanimous agreement that consistently invoking >>> the names of other posters into threads they did not personally join is
a very rude thing to do. This is true whether one advertises that they are a
professor or are more demur about it. Ron has some relevant knowledge
but his behavior makes me think of him as the least valuable player on t.o. >>
But it would be difficult to not mention other posters when the topic
involves the history of T.O., and especially inside an original post to such >> topics. For these reasons, IMO this particular instance isn't obnoxious
enough to consider ignoring him. Apparently your mileage varies.
The ID perp debacle with the Top Six was likely the most significant
event in the history of TO in terms of a single issue changing TO >dramatically. Most of the existing IDiots quit being IDiots. Kalk and >Glenn initially tried to run from reality and tried to keep putting up
the second rate gap denial that wasn't good enough to include as the
best evidence that the ID perps had, but Kalkidas couldn't keep doing
that and eventually quit the ID scam. Kalk came out and claimed that he
had never claimed to be Hindu and he became a normal Biblical
creationist poster. Eventually Kalkidas claimed that the ID scam junk
(the Top Six) were no longer of interest to him, and were things that he
no longer considered. Bill made the claim that he had never supported
the ID scam, but as I had noted even though he had been an IDiot from
the time he started posting to TO, it had been some time since Bill had >tried to defend any of the IDiotic claptrap. Pagano claimed that the
Top Six were bogus, and were not the best evidence that the ID scam had.
He tried to put up Dembski's junk instead, but Dembski had "retired"
from the ID scam several years before as an abject failure and none of
his junk made it into the Top Six. The Top Six did not support Pagano's >geocentric old earth creationists beliefs, and Pagano quit posting.
Nyikos was MIA and wasn't posting at that time, so he missed the initial >event, and remained ignorant of what happened for years. He
demonstrated his ignorance after Glenn had mistakenly posted multiple
Top Six pertaining threads in a week. Glenn had been running from the
Top Six for over 4 years by that time, and had tried to avoid ever
posting the junk. He would screw up and post the subjects from time to
time and it was obvious that Glenn didn't really care what the subject
was, he was just wallowing in the denial. I pointed this out as
something stupid that Glenn had just done. Nyikos was running from the
last holy water repost that he had inspired with his incessant repeated
lies about a subject that was over a decade old by that time. Nyikos >couldn't deal with the holy water repost, so he took up Glenn's stupid >behavior. Nyikos claimed that I had not been refuting the Top Six, and
like Dean I had to tell Nyikos that I had never been refuting the Top
Six. All I had ever done was present them as the ID perps had presented >them, and pointed out how even the ID perps could not deal with them in
an honest and straightforward manner. Nyikos had to start lying about
the issue, and it was one of the reasons why I asked that Nyikos be
banned. He also had to start lying about the Ice age stupidity and
everyone should know by now that when Nyikos starts lying about
something he has to lie about it forever. He comes back with the same
lies over and over. It just had to end. The last holy water repost had >temporarily ended his repetitive lies about that topic. When I told him >that if he kept up the stupid harassment that I would ask for him to be >banned. Nyikos requested to be banned by not harassing me about
something new, but he started up with the lies that made the last holy
water repost necessary.
This is when I found out that most of the TO regulars had missed the Top
Six event and like Nyikos had the misconception that I was baggering the >IDiots with some lame refutation. Even Nyikos understands what the Top
Six did because it destroyed his directed panspermic IDiotic nonsense.
In order to justify the Top Six he had to envoke multiple space alien >designers, and tragically some of them had to be god-like space aliens
from another universe in order to account for the Big Bang and fine
tuning. It all just demonstrated how bankrupt directed panspermia had
been all these years as an IDiotic notion. Nearly all IDiots in
existence can do no better than the TO IDiots. You can go see how the >Reason to Believe IDiots (they claim to be intelligent design advocates,
but they do not support teaching the junk in the public schools) do not
deal with the Top Six in an honest and straightforward manner. You can
see them using the same Cambrian explosion god-of-the-gaps denial (#5 of
the Top Six) that Meyer has been putting up for the last 25 years. They >even cite the 25 million year period over half a billion years ago, but
then have to deny that the Cambrian explosion ever happened when it did >happen because they want land plants to be created before sea creatures.
They have to deny the 25 million year time period (that makes it
"impossible" for all the evolution to have occurred) over half a billion >years ago because land plants do not show up in the fossil record until
the Ordovician. The angiosperm plants mentioned in the Bible do not
evolve until after Dinos evolved, less than 200 million years ago. It >doesn't look like any of their recreation notions fit in with what
actually happened. All the related species are supposed to be
recreations of previously created kinds. They need whales to be created >with the other sea creatures before the ancestral mammals existed, so
the gaps in the whale fossil record that clearly indicates that there
were mammalian terrestrial ancestors of whales that existed long before >whales evolved, has to be denied.
The Reason to Believe IDiots do not seem to have very many followers
that want to agree with them. They claim to have created a Biblical >creation model using the ID scam evidence, but their Biblical model
isn't consistent with reality, and they have had to reinterpret the
Bible in order to try to make some things fit.
The Top Six exposed TO IDiots to this reality, and it killed the ID scam
on TO. About the only thing left to discuss is why it took so long, and
why is it that the ID scam still exists? The exIDiots are the only ones >that would be able to give us some relevant answers.
Ron Okimoto
On Sun, 5 Nov 2023 11:59:36 -0600, RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:
On 11/5/2023 3:08 AM, jillery wrote:
On Saturday, November 4, 2023 at 12:31:30?PM UTC-4, Lawyer Daggett wrote: >>>> On Saturday, November 4, 2023 at 11:56:29?AM UTC-4, jillery wrote:
On Sat, 4 Nov 2023 09:06:18 -0500, RonO <roki...@cox.net> wrote:One might, or one might decide to ignore Ron Okimoto for his obnoxious >>>> behavior. There is a nearly unanimous agreement that consistently invoking >>>> the names of other posters into threads they did not personally join is >>>> a very rude thing to do. This is true whether one advertises that they are a
Kalk and Bill should provide their opinion on why the ID creationist >>>>>> scam still has a group of creationists pushing the scam and continuing >>>>>> to run the bait and switch on creationist rubes. The ID perps are still >>>>>> claiming to have the ID science to teach in the public schools, but all >>>>>> they have used ID for is as the bait in order to run in a switch scam >>>>>> that they claim has nothing to do with the ID science.The following is a point utterly orthogonal to the substance of all
Why are the ID perps tolerated, and who would support them when the bait >>>>>> and switch has been going down for over 20 years? Kalkidas now claims >>>>>> that the ID scam is no longer anything that he thinks is worth thinking >>>>>> about. He claims that the Top Six evidences for IDiocy just became >>>>>> something that wasn't worth considering any longer. When the Top Six >>>>>> were presented in their logical order of occurrence in this universe >>>>>> Bill just claimed that he had never supported the ID scam. There is no >>>>>> doubt that Bill had been a supporter of the creationist ID scam since he >>>>>> started posting. He had just never supported what it had actually been >>>>>> all those years. Bill likely began to understand that he had never >>>>>> wanted to support the ID creation science because he stopped putting up >>>>>> the junk and had started his "reality doesn't exist" routine a couple >>>>>> years before the Top Six were presented as a related group to the
IDiots. Science is just the best means we have developed to understand >>>>>> nature, and it turned out that for creationists that believed that >>>>>> nature was the Biblical creation, nature just is not Biblical. Even if >>>>>> the ID perps had been able to fill their gaps with a god, it would not >>>>>> have been the god of the Bible. Kalkidas and Bill had never wanted the >>>>>> ID perps to succeed in filling their god-of the-gaps denial junk with >>>>>> scientific evidence that some god existed. It all would have just been >>>>>> more science for them to deny.
Bill likely realized this fact before the Top Six rubbed their faces in >>>>>> the current scientific reality. Paul Nelson has been an ID perps from >>>>>> the start of the Discovery Institute's ID scam unit, and he has likely >>>>>> understood that there was never any ID science that he wanted to see >>>>>> accomplished. Early on Behe and Denton had informed the creationist >>>>>> rubes that they could not expect much to change about our understanding >>>>>> of nature with any IDiotic successes. They were both theistic
evolutionists, and understood that any IDiotic science would just add to >>>>>> the science that already existed. Nelson is always quoted for his
statement around the time of the Dover Fiasco that the ID science did >>>>>> not exist, but that the ID perps were trying very hard to produce some >>>>>> viable ID science. I recall Nelson making similar statements much
earlier than that. He had already made similar claims when the first >>>>>> bait and switch went down on the Ohio rubes in 2002. Nelson is a young >>>>>> earth creationist Biblical ID perp. He likely would have never joined >>>>>> up with the ID scam if they had had any real ID science because the ID >>>>>> perps have always lied to the rubes about ID being a "Big Tent" where >>>>>> all forms of creationism were welcomed. All of the ID "science" would >>>>>> have just supported old earth creationism, and likely wouldn't even >>>>>> support the old earth Biblical creationists like they have at Reason to >>>>>> Believe who claim to be IDiots. Nature just is not Biblical, and the >>>>>> ancient "designed" creation events occur out of Biblical order. Nelson >>>>>> has likely known this from the beginning, and would have quit the ID >>>>>> scam if any ID science had ever been verified. He has just been willing >>>>>> to go along with the scam, for as long as no ID science was ever
attempted and accomplished.
Pagano understood immediately what the Top Six meant, and claimed that >>>>>> they were bogus and not the best evidence for the creationist ID scam. >>>>>> The Top Six did not support Pagano's old earth geocentric creationist >>>>>> beliefs. Pagano quit posting. Kalkidas and Bill are no longer IDiotic >>>>>> creationist. Why do ID perps still exist to continue to run the bait >>>>>> and switch on hapless creationist rubes?
Current IDiotic Propaganda about teaching the science of ID in the >>>>>> public schools. They had updated this pdf in 2021, but have since
reformated the site and seem to have reverted to the 2018 version: >>>>>> https://www.discovery.org/f/1453/
Even the ID perps can't deal with their own Top Six:
https://groups.google.com/g/talk.origins/c/a2K79skPGXI/m/uDwx0i-_BAAJ >>>>>>
Ron Okimoto
that you say above, yet is important in its own way.
I assume no regular reader of T.O. would make such a mistake, but a
naive reader might confuse your "Bill" to refer to Bill Rogers, who is >>>>> a more prolific poster to T.O. than is the Freon Bill persona I assume >>>>> you refer above.
Just as you would likely distinguish "Ron Okimoto" from "Ron Dean", I >>>>> am here recommending that your future posts make a similar distinction >>>>> between "Bill Rogers" and "Freon Bill".
That is all.
professor or are more demur about it. Ron has some relevant knowledge
but his behavior makes me think of him as the least valuable player on t.o.
You illustrate above a good example of how different posters use different >>> reasons for ignoring other posters. I agree invoking other posters' names >>> usually is annoying, especially when it's used as a form of quotemining. >>> But it would be difficult to not mention other posters when the topic
involves the history of T.O., and especially inside an original post to such
topics. For these reasons, IMO this particular instance isn't obnoxious >>> enough to consider ignoring him. Apparently your mileage varies.
OTOH IMO the following spam is obnoxious enough to consider ignoring
you.
The ID perp debacle with the Top Six was likely the most significant
event in the history of TO in terms of a single issue changing TO
dramatically. Most of the existing IDiots quit being IDiots. Kalk and
Glenn initially tried to run from reality and tried to keep putting up
the second rate gap denial that wasn't good enough to include as the
best evidence that the ID perps had, but Kalkidas couldn't keep doing
that and eventually quit the ID scam. Kalk came out and claimed that he
had never claimed to be Hindu and he became a normal Biblical
creationist poster. Eventually Kalkidas claimed that the ID scam junk
(the Top Six) were no longer of interest to him, and were things that he
no longer considered. Bill made the claim that he had never supported
the ID scam, but as I had noted even though he had been an IDiot from
the time he started posting to TO, it had been some time since Bill had
tried to defend any of the IDiotic claptrap. Pagano claimed that the
Top Six were bogus, and were not the best evidence that the ID scam had.
He tried to put up Dembski's junk instead, but Dembski had "retired" >>from the ID scam several years before as an abject failure and none of
his junk made it into the Top Six. The Top Six did not support Pagano's
geocentric old earth creationists beliefs, and Pagano quit posting.
Nyikos was MIA and wasn't posting at that time, so he missed the initial
event, and remained ignorant of what happened for years. He
demonstrated his ignorance after Glenn had mistakenly posted multiple
Top Six pertaining threads in a week. Glenn had been running from the
Top Six for over 4 years by that time, and had tried to avoid ever
posting the junk. He would screw up and post the subjects from time to
time and it was obvious that Glenn didn't really care what the subject
was, he was just wallowing in the denial. I pointed this out as
something stupid that Glenn had just done. Nyikos was running from the
last holy water repost that he had inspired with his incessant repeated
lies about a subject that was over a decade old by that time. Nyikos
couldn't deal with the holy water repost, so he took up Glenn's stupid
behavior. Nyikos claimed that I had not been refuting the Top Six, and
like Dean I had to tell Nyikos that I had never been refuting the Top
Six. All I had ever done was present them as the ID perps had presented
them, and pointed out how even the ID perps could not deal with them in
an honest and straightforward manner. Nyikos had to start lying about
the issue, and it was one of the reasons why I asked that Nyikos be
banned. He also had to start lying about the Ice age stupidity and
everyone should know by now that when Nyikos starts lying about
something he has to lie about it forever. He comes back with the same
lies over and over. It just had to end. The last holy water repost had
temporarily ended his repetitive lies about that topic. When I told him
that if he kept up the stupid harassment that I would ask for him to be
banned. Nyikos requested to be banned by not harassing me about
something new, but he started up with the lies that made the last holy
water repost necessary.
This is when I found out that most of the TO regulars had missed the Top
Six event and like Nyikos had the misconception that I was baggering the
IDiots with some lame refutation. Even Nyikos understands what the Top
Six did because it destroyed his directed panspermic IDiotic nonsense.
In order to justify the Top Six he had to envoke multiple space alien
designers, and tragically some of them had to be god-like space aliens >>from another universe in order to account for the Big Bang and fine
tuning. It all just demonstrated how bankrupt directed panspermia had
been all these years as an IDiotic notion. Nearly all IDiots in
existence can do no better than the TO IDiots. You can go see how the
Reason to Believe IDiots (they claim to be intelligent design advocates,
but they do not support teaching the junk in the public schools) do not
deal with the Top Six in an honest and straightforward manner. You can
see them using the same Cambrian explosion god-of-the-gaps denial (#5 of
the Top Six) that Meyer has been putting up for the last 25 years. They
even cite the 25 million year period over half a billion years ago, but
then have to deny that the Cambrian explosion ever happened when it did
happen because they want land plants to be created before sea creatures.
They have to deny the 25 million year time period (that makes it
"impossible" for all the evolution to have occurred) over half a billion
years ago because land plants do not show up in the fossil record until
the Ordovician. The angiosperm plants mentioned in the Bible do not
evolve until after Dinos evolved, less than 200 million years ago. It
doesn't look like any of their recreation notions fit in with what
actually happened. All the related species are supposed to be
recreations of previously created kinds. They need whales to be created
with the other sea creatures before the ancestral mammals existed, so
the gaps in the whale fossil record that clearly indicates that there
were mammalian terrestrial ancestors of whales that existed long before
whales evolved, has to be denied.
The Reason to Believe IDiots do not seem to have very many followers
that want to agree with them. They claim to have created a Biblical
creation model using the ID scam evidence, but their Biblical model
isn't consistent with reality, and they have had to reinterpret the
Bible in order to try to make some things fit.
The Top Six exposed TO IDiots to this reality, and it killed the ID scam
on TO. About the only thing left to discuss is why it took so long, and
why is it that the ID scam still exists? The exIDiots are the only ones
that would be able to give us some relevant answers.
Ron Okimoto
--
To know less than we don't know is the nature of most knowledge
On 11/6/2023 12:50 AM, jillery wrote:
On Sun, 5 Nov 2023 11:59:36 -0600, RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:
On 11/5/2023 3:08 AM, jillery wrote:
On Saturday, November 4, 2023 at 12:31:30?PM UTC-4, Lawyer Daggett wrote: >>>>> On Saturday, November 4, 2023 at 11:56:29?AM UTC-4, jillery wrote:
On Sat, 4 Nov 2023 09:06:18 -0500, RonO <roki...@cox.net> wrote:One might, or one might decide to ignore Ron Okimoto for his obnoxious >>>>> behavior. There is a nearly unanimous agreement that consistently invoking
Kalk and Bill should provide their opinion on why the ID creationist >>>>>>> scam still has a group of creationists pushing the scam and continuing >>>>>>> to run the bait and switch on creationist rubes. The ID perps are still >>>>>>> claiming to have the ID science to teach in the public schools, but all >>>>>>> they have used ID for is as the bait in order to run in a switch scam >>>>>>> that they claim has nothing to do with the ID science.The following is a point utterly orthogonal to the substance of all >>>>>> that you say above, yet is important in its own way.
Why are the ID perps tolerated, and who would support them when the bait
and switch has been going down for over 20 years? Kalkidas now claims >>>>>>> that the ID scam is no longer anything that he thinks is worth thinking >>>>>>> about. He claims that the Top Six evidences for IDiocy just became >>>>>>> something that wasn't worth considering any longer. When the Top Six >>>>>>> were presented in their logical order of occurrence in this universe >>>>>>> Bill just claimed that he had never supported the ID scam. There is no >>>>>>> doubt that Bill had been a supporter of the creationist ID scam since he
started posting. He had just never supported what it had actually been >>>>>>> all those years. Bill likely began to understand that he had never >>>>>>> wanted to support the ID creation science because he stopped putting up >>>>>>> the junk and had started his "reality doesn't exist" routine a couple >>>>>>> years before the Top Six were presented as a related group to the >>>>>>> IDiots. Science is just the best means we have developed to understand >>>>>>> nature, and it turned out that for creationists that believed that >>>>>>> nature was the Biblical creation, nature just is not Biblical. Even if >>>>>>> the ID perps had been able to fill their gaps with a god, it would not >>>>>>> have been the god of the Bible. Kalkidas and Bill had never wanted the >>>>>>> ID perps to succeed in filling their god-of the-gaps denial junk with >>>>>>> scientific evidence that some god existed. It all would have just been >>>>>>> more science for them to deny.
Bill likely realized this fact before the Top Six rubbed their faces in >>>>>>> the current scientific reality. Paul Nelson has been an ID perps from >>>>>>> the start of the Discovery Institute's ID scam unit, and he has likely >>>>>>> understood that there was never any ID science that he wanted to see >>>>>>> accomplished. Early on Behe and Denton had informed the creationist >>>>>>> rubes that they could not expect much to change about our understanding >>>>>>> of nature with any IDiotic successes. They were both theistic
evolutionists, and understood that any IDiotic science would just add to
the science that already existed. Nelson is always quoted for his >>>>>>> statement around the time of the Dover Fiasco that the ID science did >>>>>>> not exist, but that the ID perps were trying very hard to produce some >>>>>>> viable ID science. I recall Nelson making similar statements much >>>>>>> earlier than that. He had already made similar claims when the first >>>>>>> bait and switch went down on the Ohio rubes in 2002. Nelson is a young >>>>>>> earth creationist Biblical ID perp. He likely would have never joined >>>>>>> up with the ID scam if they had had any real ID science because the ID >>>>>>> perps have always lied to the rubes about ID being a "Big Tent" where >>>>>>> all forms of creationism were welcomed. All of the ID "science" would >>>>>>> have just supported old earth creationism, and likely wouldn't even >>>>>>> support the old earth Biblical creationists like they have at Reason to >>>>>>> Believe who claim to be IDiots. Nature just is not Biblical, and the >>>>>>> ancient "designed" creation events occur out of Biblical order. Nelson >>>>>>> has likely known this from the beginning, and would have quit the ID >>>>>>> scam if any ID science had ever been verified. He has just been willing >>>>>>> to go along with the scam, for as long as no ID science was ever >>>>>>> attempted and accomplished.
Pagano understood immediately what the Top Six meant, and claimed that >>>>>>> they were bogus and not the best evidence for the creationist ID scam. >>>>>>> The Top Six did not support Pagano's old earth geocentric creationist >>>>>>> beliefs. Pagano quit posting. Kalkidas and Bill are no longer IDiotic >>>>>>> creationist. Why do ID perps still exist to continue to run the bait >>>>>>> and switch on hapless creationist rubes?
Current IDiotic Propaganda about teaching the science of ID in the >>>>>>> public schools. They had updated this pdf in 2021, but have since >>>>>>> reformated the site and seem to have reverted to the 2018 version: >>>>>>> https://www.discovery.org/f/1453/
Even the ID perps can't deal with their own Top Six:
https://groups.google.com/g/talk.origins/c/a2K79skPGXI/m/uDwx0i-_BAAJ >>>>>>>
Ron Okimoto
I assume no regular reader of T.O. would make such a mistake, but a >>>>>> naive reader might confuse your "Bill" to refer to Bill Rogers, who is >>>>>> a more prolific poster to T.O. than is the Freon Bill persona I assume >>>>>> you refer above.
Just as you would likely distinguish "Ron Okimoto" from "Ron Dean", I >>>>>> am here recommending that your future posts make a similar distinction >>>>>> between "Bill Rogers" and "Freon Bill".
That is all.
the names of other posters into threads they did not personally join is >>>>> a very rude thing to do. This is true whether one advertises that they are a
professor or are more demur about it. Ron has some relevant knowledge >>>>> but his behavior makes me think of him as the least valuable player on t.o.
You illustrate above a good example of how different posters use different >>>> reasons for ignoring other posters. I agree invoking other posters' names >>>> usually is annoying, especially when it's used as a form of quotemining. >>>> But it would be difficult to not mention other posters when the topic
involves the history of T.O., and especially inside an original post to such
topics. For these reasons, IMO this particular instance isn't obnoxious >>>> enough to consider ignoring him. Apparently your mileage varies.
OTOH IMO the following spam is obnoxious enough to consider ignoring
you.
Does this mean that you would stoop to calling reality spam because you >missed out on what actually happened when the Top Six was put out by the
ID perps? Can you put up any examples that you do not think are true?
It obviously isn't spam, it is the history and current reality that we
are dealing with.
On Mon, 6 Nov 2023 06:03:37 -0600, RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:
On 11/6/2023 12:50 AM, jillery wrote:
On Sun, 5 Nov 2023 11:59:36 -0600, RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:
On 11/5/2023 3:08 AM, jillery wrote:
On Saturday, November 4, 2023 at 12:31:30?PM UTC-4, Lawyer Daggett wrote: >>>>>> On Saturday, November 4, 2023 at 11:56:29?AM UTC-4, jillery wrote: >>>>>>> On Sat, 4 Nov 2023 09:06:18 -0500, RonO <roki...@cox.net> wrote: >>>>>>>
One might, or one might decide to ignore Ron Okimoto for his obnoxious >>>>>> behavior. There is a nearly unanimous agreement that consistently invokingKalk and Bill should provide their opinion on why the ID creationist >>>>>>>> scam still has a group of creationists pushing the scam and continuing >>>>>>>> to run the bait and switch on creationist rubes. The ID perps are stillThe following is a point utterly orthogonal to the substance of all >>>>>>> that you say above, yet is important in its own way.
claiming to have the ID science to teach in the public schools, but all
they have used ID for is as the bait in order to run in a switch scam >>>>>>>> that they claim has nothing to do with the ID science.
Why are the ID perps tolerated, and who would support them when the bait
and switch has been going down for over 20 years? Kalkidas now claims >>>>>>>> that the ID scam is no longer anything that he thinks is worth thinking
about. He claims that the Top Six evidences for IDiocy just became >>>>>>>> something that wasn't worth considering any longer. When the Top Six >>>>>>>> were presented in their logical order of occurrence in this universe >>>>>>>> Bill just claimed that he had never supported the ID scam. There is no >>>>>>>> doubt that Bill had been a supporter of the creationist ID scam since he
started posting. He had just never supported what it had actually been >>>>>>>> all those years. Bill likely began to understand that he had never >>>>>>>> wanted to support the ID creation science because he stopped putting up
the junk and had started his "reality doesn't exist" routine a couple >>>>>>>> years before the Top Six were presented as a related group to the >>>>>>>> IDiots. Science is just the best means we have developed to understand >>>>>>>> nature, and it turned out that for creationists that believed that >>>>>>>> nature was the Biblical creation, nature just is not Biblical. Even if >>>>>>>> the ID perps had been able to fill their gaps with a god, it would not >>>>>>>> have been the god of the Bible. Kalkidas and Bill had never wanted the >>>>>>>> ID perps to succeed in filling their god-of the-gaps denial junk with >>>>>>>> scientific evidence that some god existed. It all would have just been >>>>>>>> more science for them to deny.
Bill likely realized this fact before the Top Six rubbed their faces in
the current scientific reality. Paul Nelson has been an ID perps from >>>>>>>> the start of the Discovery Institute's ID scam unit, and he has likely >>>>>>>> understood that there was never any ID science that he wanted to see >>>>>>>> accomplished. Early on Behe and Denton had informed the creationist >>>>>>>> rubes that they could not expect much to change about our understanding
of nature with any IDiotic successes. They were both theistic
evolutionists, and understood that any IDiotic science would just add to
the science that already existed. Nelson is always quoted for his >>>>>>>> statement around the time of the Dover Fiasco that the ID science did >>>>>>>> not exist, but that the ID perps were trying very hard to produce some >>>>>>>> viable ID science. I recall Nelson making similar statements much >>>>>>>> earlier than that. He had already made similar claims when the first >>>>>>>> bait and switch went down on the Ohio rubes in 2002. Nelson is a young >>>>>>>> earth creationist Biblical ID perp. He likely would have never joined >>>>>>>> up with the ID scam if they had had any real ID science because the ID >>>>>>>> perps have always lied to the rubes about ID being a "Big Tent" where >>>>>>>> all forms of creationism were welcomed. All of the ID "science" would >>>>>>>> have just supported old earth creationism, and likely wouldn't even >>>>>>>> support the old earth Biblical creationists like they have at Reason to
Believe who claim to be IDiots. Nature just is not Biblical, and the >>>>>>>> ancient "designed" creation events occur out of Biblical order. Nelson >>>>>>>> has likely known this from the beginning, and would have quit the ID >>>>>>>> scam if any ID science had ever been verified. He has just been willing
to go along with the scam, for as long as no ID science was ever >>>>>>>> attempted and accomplished.
Pagano understood immediately what the Top Six meant, and claimed that >>>>>>>> they were bogus and not the best evidence for the creationist ID scam. >>>>>>>> The Top Six did not support Pagano's old earth geocentric creationist >>>>>>>> beliefs. Pagano quit posting. Kalkidas and Bill are no longer IDiotic >>>>>>>> creationist. Why do ID perps still exist to continue to run the bait >>>>>>>> and switch on hapless creationist rubes?
Current IDiotic Propaganda about teaching the science of ID in the >>>>>>>> public schools. They had updated this pdf in 2021, but have since >>>>>>>> reformated the site and seem to have reverted to the 2018 version: >>>>>>>> https://www.discovery.org/f/1453/
Even the ID perps can't deal with their own Top Six:
https://groups.google.com/g/talk.origins/c/a2K79skPGXI/m/uDwx0i-_BAAJ >>>>>>>>
Ron Okimoto
I assume no regular reader of T.O. would make such a mistake, but a >>>>>>> naive reader might confuse your "Bill" to refer to Bill Rogers, who is >>>>>>> a more prolific poster to T.O. than is the Freon Bill persona I assume >>>>>>> you refer above.
Just as you would likely distinguish "Ron Okimoto" from "Ron Dean", I >>>>>>> am here recommending that your future posts make a similar distinction >>>>>>> between "Bill Rogers" and "Freon Bill".
That is all.
the names of other posters into threads they did not personally join is >>>>>> a very rude thing to do. This is true whether one advertises that they are a
professor or are more demur about it. Ron has some relevant knowledge >>>>>> but his behavior makes me think of him as the least valuable player on t.o.
You illustrate above a good example of how different posters use different
reasons for ignoring other posters. I agree invoking other posters' names
usually is annoying, especially when it's used as a form of quotemining. >>>>> But it would be difficult to not mention other posters when the topic >>>>> involves the history of T.O., and especially inside an original post to such
topics. For these reasons, IMO this particular instance isn't obnoxious >>>>> enough to consider ignoring him. Apparently your mileage varies.
OTOH IMO the following spam is obnoxious enough to consider ignoring
you.
Does this mean that you would stoop to calling reality spam because you
missed out on what actually happened when the Top Six was put out by the
ID perps? Can you put up any examples that you do not think are true?
It obviously isn't spam, it is the history and current reality that we
are dealing with.
Spam is repetitive comments which ignore comments raised in the posts
to which they are attached, whether or not the spam is true, whether
or not the spam is relevant to the OP. Spam turns nominal proponents
into nominal opponents. You would do as well or better to attach your
spam to your OP, to facilitate talking to yourself.
<snip spam>
--
To know less than we don't know is the nature of most knowledge
On 11/6/2023 8:59 AM, jillery wrote:
OTOH IMO the following spam is obnoxious enough to consider ignoring
you.
Does this mean that you would stoop to calling reality spam because you
missed out on what actually happened when the Top Six was put out by the >>> ID perps? Can you put up any examples that you do not think are true?
It obviously isn't spam, it is the history and current reality that we
are dealing with.
Spam is repetitive comments which ignore comments raised in the posts
to which they are attached, whether or not the spam is true, whether
or not the spam is relevant to the OP. Spam turns nominal proponents
into nominal opponents. You would do as well or better to attach your
spam to your OP, to facilitate talking to yourself.
<snip spam>
Then it wasn't spam because it was all relevant to the thread, and it
was supporting what you had just claimed in terms of invoking poster's >names.
On Mon, 6 Nov 2023 17:48:02 -0600, RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:
On 11/6/2023 8:59 AM, jillery wrote:
<snip-a-doodle>
OTOH IMO the following spam is obnoxious enough to consider ignoring >>>>> you.
Does this mean that you would stoop to calling reality spam because you >>>> missed out on what actually happened when the Top Six was put out by the >>>> ID perps? Can you put up any examples that you do not think are true? >>>> It obviously isn't spam, it is the history and current reality that we >>>> are dealing with.
Spam is repetitive comments which ignore comments raised in the posts
to which they are attached, whether or not the spam is true, whether
or not the spam is relevant to the OP. Spam turns nominal proponents
into nominal opponents. You would do as well or better to attach your
spam to your OP, to facilitate talking to yourself.
<snip spam>
Then it wasn't spam because it was all relevant to the thread, and it
was supporting what you had just claimed in terms of invoking poster's
names.
Incorrect. You completely ignored what I wrote and repeatedly
repeated MOTS from your OP. That makes it spam.
--
To know less than we don't know is the nature of most knowledge
Then it wasn't spam because it was all relevant to the thread, and it
was supporting what you had just claimed in terms of invoking poster's
names. It was the history and the basis for putting in the poster's
names in the first place, so it wasn't spam in terms of the topics
presented in this thread that you mentioned in your post. Kalk and Bill
are really the best candidates left to give their explanation for why
they supported the ID scam.
RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:
[snip]
You happen to be one of the more knowledgable posters here and provide >informative content from time to time, but these ID perps, scams, rubes
posts of yours are tedious and come across as obsessive. You could save the >reader some time by just shortening it to “ID perps, scams, rubes” instead >of a wall of text and wouldn’t lose any novel information.
On Wed, 08 Nov 2023 02:28:49 +0000, *Hemidactylus* <ecphoric@allspamis.invalid> wrote:
RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:
[snip]
You happen to be one of the more knowledgable posters here and provide
informative content from time to time, but these ID perps, scams, rubes
posts of yours are tedious and come across as obsessive. You could save the >> reader some time by just shortening it to “ID perps, scams, rubes” instead
of a wall of text and wouldn’t lose any novel information.
Kalkidas makes the same point you do above, only more graphically.
You illustrate above a good example of how different posters usedifferent
reasons for ignoring other posters. I agree invoking other posters'names
usually is annoying, especially when it's used as a form of quotemining.to such
But it would be difficult to not mention other posters when the topic involves the history of T.O., and especially inside an original post
topics. For these reasons, IMO this particular instance isn't obnoxious enough to consider ignoring him. Apparently your mileage varies.
--
To know less than we don't know is the nature of most knowledge
RonO <rokimoto@cox.net> wrote:
[snip]
Then it wasn't spam because it was all relevant to the thread, and it
was supporting what you had just claimed in terms of invoking poster's
names. It was the history and the basis for putting in the poster's
names in the first place, so it wasn't spam in terms of the topics
presented in this thread that you mentioned in your post. Kalk and Bill
are really the best candidates left to give their explanation for why
they supported the ID scam.
Why would Freon Bill be such a candidate? Does he even post here any more?
You happen to be one of the more knowledgable posters here and provide informative content from time to time, but these ID perps, scams, rubes
posts of yours are tedious and come across as obsessive. You could save the reader some time by just shortening it to “ID perps, scams, rubes” instead
of a wall of text and wouldn’t lose any novel information.
Kalk and Bill should provide their opinion on why the ID creationist
scam still has a group of creationists pushing the scam and continuing
to run the bait and switch on creationist rubes. The ID perps are still claiming to have the ID science to teach in the public schools, but all
they have used ID for is as the bait in order to run in a switch scam
that they claim has nothing to do with the ID science.
On Saturday, 4 November 2023 at 16:11:29 UTC+2, RonO wrote:
Kalk and Bill should provide their opinion on why the ID creationistFor me it has stopped to be scam and they are not perps and rubes
scam still has a group of creationists pushing the scam and continuing
to run the bait and switch on creationist rubes. The ID perps are still
claiming to have the ID science to teach in the public schools, but all
they have used ID for is as the bait in order to run in a switch scam
that they claim has nothing to do with the ID science.
quite some time ago.
Majority of people who bother to study it a bit agree that properties and abilities of living organisms can be altered through several of ways.
1) wild evolution (wast majority of species clearly evolved wildly from ancestors),
2) breeding (wast majority of agricultural crops and domestic animals
clearly were breed from wild species),
3) design (global market of genetic engineering was USD 3 billions in 2021), ... medicine, diet, crafting, surgeries, symbiotes, parasites, training, etc. Do you disagree? It is done and happening so it exists.
The whole issue with ID is that there are no theory who, when, where,
how, why designed something. They hoped that they will have such
theory but were mistaken. That does not mean that such theory is
impossible. ID clearly isn't when global market of it will perhaps reach
10 billions this decade. Just that the theory of someone but humans
doing it here does not exist. And I suspect it won't ever. But I am
mistaken several times per day. Aren't you? So all that perp-rube-scam
stuff is too excessive.
On 11/11/2023 6:30 AM, Öö Tiib wrote:
On Saturday, 4 November 2023 at 16:11:29 UTC+2, RonO wrote:The ID perps have never stopped running the bait and switch scam on the creationist rubes. They keep selling the teach ID creationist scam
Kalk and Bill should provide their opinion on why the ID creationistFor me it has stopped to be scam and they are not perps and rubes
scam still has a group of creationists pushing the scam and continuing
to run the bait and switch on creationist rubes. The ID perps are still >> claiming to have the ID science to teach in the public schools, but all >> they have used ID for is as the bait in order to run in a switch scam
that they claim has nothing to do with the ID science.
quite some time ago.
using ID as only the bait in order to run in the obfuscation and denial switch scam. It is the ID perps that tell the creationist rubes that
the switch scam has nothing to do with ID nor creationism.
They have not stopped using ID as only the bait since they started
running the bait and switch scam over 2 decades ago. Even the Dover
court decision demonstrating that no ID science had ever existed stopped
the bait and switch. It turned out that none of the IDiots wanted there
to be any ID science. It all would have just been more science for creationist to deny.
Majority of people who bother to study it a bit agree that properties and abilities of living organisms can be altered through several of ways.
1) wild evolution (wast majority of species clearly evolved wildly from ancestors),
2) breeding (wast majority of agricultural crops and domestic animals clearly were breed from wild species),
3) design (global market of genetic engineering was USD 3 billions in 2021),
... medicine, diet, crafting, surgeries, symbiotes, parasites, training, etc.
Do you disagree? It is done and happening so it exists.
The whole issue with ID is that there are no theory who, when, where,
how, why designed something. They hoped that they will have such
theory but were mistaken. That does not mean that such theory is impossible. ID clearly isn't when global market of it will perhaps reach 10 billions this decade. Just that the theory of someone but humans
doing it here does not exist. And I suspect it won't ever. But I am mistaken several times per day. Aren't you? So all that perp-rube-scam stuff is too excessive.
It turned out that the ID perps never wanted to produce any scientific theory, nor do any intelligent design science. Any valid scientific
theory of intelligent design science would have just been more science
for the IDiotic creationist rubes to deny. The TO IDiotic reaction to
the ID perp's Top Six should tell any sane and competent person that,
that has been the case forever. The ID perps had to run the bait and
switch as the only means they could think of to keep the creationist political efforts going. They all understood that ID was just a name
change, and that all they ever had was the same junk that had failed the scientific creationists that had tried to teach the junk before them.
The obfuscation and denial switch scam was all that they could think of
to keep doing to keep the political ploy running.
Just imagine if Meyer had ever been able to demonstrate scientifically,
that his designer had been responsible for the Cambrian explosion diversification of bilateria during a 25 million year time period over
half a billion years ago. Most of the IDiotic support still comes from
young earth creationists, and all Meyer would be giving to them would be more science that they had to deny. Even the old earth creationists at Reason To Believe wouldn't be able to deal with any Cambrian explosion creation science because they still claim that land plants were created before the sea creatures created during the Cambrian explosion. The
designer of the Cambrian explosion is not the designer of the Bible
because land plants do not show up until the Ordovician, and the
angiosperms mentioned in the Bible do not show up until after dinos had evolved among the terrestrial vertebrates.
This is why that when the Top Six evidences for intelligent design were given to the IDiots on TO, in their order in which they must have
occurred, the TO IDiots quit being IDiots. It was obvious that none of
them wanted to support any ID science that the ID perps claimed was possible.
Even other ID perps can't stand the Top Six as given to the creationist rubes. Sewell dropped out IC (#4) and the Cambrian explosion (#5) and
put the rest out of chronological order in order to deal with them, and Brian Miller dropped out the Big Bang (#1). The removal of the Big Bang
was expected because the IDiotic type creationist rubes have already
dropped the Big Bang from the state's science standards along with biological evolution in Kansas as science topics that they do not want
their kids to have to understand. There was always little chance that
the Big Bang IDiotic gap denial would have ever been taught in the
public schools.
It looks like there should be a review of history in order for TO
regulars to come to grips with the current reality, a reality that had always existed.
On Saturday, 11 November 2023 at 16:16:37 UTC+2, RonO wrote:
On 11/11/2023 6:30 AM, Öö Tiib wrote:Bait of what? How can ID science be bait if no "IDiot" wanted there be
On Saturday, 4 November 2023 at 16:11:29 UTC+2, RonO wrote:The ID perps have never stopped running the bait and switch scam on the
Kalk and Bill should provide their opinion on why the ID creationistFor me it has stopped to be scam and they are not perps and rubes
scam still has a group of creationists pushing the scam and continuing >>>> to run the bait and switch on creationist rubes. The ID perps are still >>>> claiming to have the ID science to teach in the public schools, but all >>>> they have used ID for is as the bait in order to run in a switch scam
that they claim has nothing to do with the ID science.
quite some time ago.
creationist rubes. They keep selling the teach ID creationist scam
using ID as only the bait in order to run in the obfuscation and denial
switch scam. It is the ID perps that tell the creationist rubes that
the switch scam has nothing to do with ID nor creationism.
They have not stopped using ID as only the bait since they started
running the bait and switch scam over 2 decades ago. Even the Dover
court decision demonstrating that no ID science had ever existed stopped
the bait and switch. It turned out that none of the IDiots wanted there
to be any ID science. It all would have just been more science for
creationist to deny.
any ID science? That is what it is ... creationists want the evolution not taught as it contradicts with what they believe. But ID is that lot of it indeed did evolve from (some undefined set of) common (designed)
decent for at least half billion of years and someone tinkered with
it at unclear times and to unclear extent. That is what Meyer and
Behe seem to say. Am I wrong? So they do not say what creationists
want to hear.
It is not same, creation science is YEC stuff, flood geology, catastrophism, relatively recent de novo creation of universe and species. It is bad theory as it contradict with all evidence hopelessly. Basically last thursdayism, everything was made very recently only to look like it had formed andIt turned out that the ID perps never wanted to produce any scientific
Majority of people who bother to study it a bit agree that properties and >>> abilities of living organisms can be altered through several of ways.
1) wild evolution (wast majority of species clearly evolved wildly from
ancestors),
2) breeding (wast majority of agricultural crops and domestic animals
clearly were breed from wild species),
3) design (global market of genetic engineering was USD 3 billions in 2021),
... medicine, diet, crafting, surgeries, symbiotes, parasites, training, etc.
Do you disagree? It is done and happening so it exists.
The whole issue with ID is that there are no theory who, when, where,
how, why designed something. They hoped that they will have such
theory but were mistaken. That does not mean that such theory is
impossible. ID clearly isn't when global market of it will perhaps reach >>> 10 billions this decade. Just that the theory of someone but humans
doing it here does not exist. And I suspect it won't ever. But I am
mistaken several times per day. Aren't you? So all that perp-rube-scam
stuff is too excessive.
theory, nor do any intelligent design science. Any valid scientific
theory of intelligent design science would have just been more science
for the IDiotic creationist rubes to deny. The TO IDiotic reaction to
the ID perp's Top Six should tell any sane and competent person that,
that has been the case forever. The ID perps had to run the bait and
switch as the only means they could think of to keep the creationist
political efforts going. They all understood that ID was just a name
change, and that all they ever had was the same junk that had failed the
scientific creationists that had tried to teach the junk before them.
evolved billions of years. Too hard to talk that seriously, or form any plausible claims there and so the ID split out of it.
The obfuscation and denial switch scam was all that they could think ofI agree that all YEC would disagree with that Cambrian creation/altering as well. Old earth creationist from RTB would probably also disagree with lot
to keep doing to keep the political ploy running.
Just imagine if Meyer had ever been able to demonstrate scientifically,
that his designer had been responsible for the Cambrian explosion
diversification of bilateria during a 25 million year time period over
half a billion years ago. Most of the IDiotic support still comes from
young earth creationists, and all Meyer would be giving to them would be
more science that they had to deny. Even the old earth creationists at
Reason To Believe wouldn't be able to deal with any Cambrian explosion
creation science because they still claim that land plants were created
before the sea creatures created during the Cambrian explosion. The
designer of the Cambrian explosion is not the designer of the Bible
because land plants do not show up until the Ordovician, and the
angiosperms mentioned in the Bible do not show up until after dinos had
evolved among the terrestrial vertebrates.
of it. So what? That difference is why ID split from creation science. That is not scam but difference of views.
This is why that when the Top Six evidences for intelligent design wereYes ... they disagree among themselves what they want the "ID
given to the IDiots on TO, in their order in which they must have
occurred, the TO IDiots quit being IDiots. It was obvious that none of
them wanted to support any ID science that the ID perps claimed was
possible.
Even other ID perps can't stand the Top Six as given to the creationist
rubes. Sewell dropped out IC (#4) and the Cambrian explosion (#5) and
put the rest out of chronological order in order to deal with them, and
Brian Miller dropped out the Big Bang (#1). The removal of the Big Bang
was expected because the IDiotic type creationist rubes have already
dropped the Big Bang from the state's science standards along with
biological evolution in Kansas as science topics that they do not want
their kids to have to understand. There was always little chance that
the Big Bang IDiotic gap denial would have ever been taught in the
public schools.
It looks like there should be a review of history in order for TO
regulars to come to grips with the current reality, a reality that had
always existed.
theory" to be. That is normal after these failing and fruitless
decades. Kids became adults, young people became old but they
still have nothing. Must feel frustrating. But I still don't see them as scammers, just unsuccessful and/or mistaken.
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