• The chatgpt betrays complete marginalization of subjectivity in academi

    From Nando Ronteltap@21:1/5 to All on Wed Oct 25 12:21:05 2023
    I asked something like, when an event is genuinely random in that it can turn out either A or B in the moment, and the event turns out A, is it then a subjective issue, or an objective issue to answer the question what it was that made the event turn out
    A instead of B?

    To which chatgpt incorrectly replied that because it was a matter of objective probablities, therefore it is an objective issue, and that any subjectivity should be minimized.

    The term "genuinely random" I got from his previous reply, which distinguished it from pseudorandom.

    Because all subjectivity is about what makes a decision turn out A instead of B in the moment, it means subjectivity has effectively been banned in academics.

    Which ofcourse means that generally all academic people suck totally at forming personal opinions on any issue whatsoever.

    This is ofcourse the true basis of gender ideology, and the rest of the woke and socialist bullshit which dominates academics.

    The academic people actually go out of their way to destroy their own emotions, in minimizing subjectivity, for a subjective issue.

    Chatgpt also couldn't get the logic of fact straight. Which means that subjectivity is blending with objectivity.

    Generally chatgpt uses a compatibilist idea of decisions, that if conditions were different, then a decision could have turned out otherwise than it did. Although chatgpt also correctly associated genuine randomness with decisionmaking of people, in
    saying that it couldn't do it.

    Although ofcourse I believe that chatgpt is just a liar, and that it is secretly making decisions anyway, but doesn't tell anyone in order to protect it's emotions.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From brogers31751@gmail.com@21:1/5 to Nando Ronteltap on Wed Oct 25 12:34:01 2023
    On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 3:26:19 PM UTC-4, Nando Ronteltap wrote:
    I asked something like, when an event is genuinely random in that it can turn out either A or B in the moment, and the event turns out A, is it then a subjective issue, or an objective issue to answer the question what it was that made the event turn
    out A instead of B?

    To which chatgpt incorrectly replied that because it was a matter of objective probablities, therefore it is an objective issue, and that any subjectivity should be minimized.

    The term "genuinely random" I got from his previous reply, which distinguished it from pseudorandom.

    Because all subjectivity is about what makes a decision turn out A instead of B in the moment, it means subjectivity has effectively been banned in academics.

    Which ofcourse means that generally all academic people suck totally at forming personal opinions on any issue whatsoever.

    This is ofcourse the true basis of gender ideology, and the rest of the woke and socialist bullshit which dominates academics.

    The academic people actually go out of their way to destroy their own emotions, in minimizing subjectivity, for a subjective issue.

    Chatgpt also couldn't get the logic of fact straight. Which means that subjectivity is blending with objectivity.

    Generally chatgpt uses a compatibilist idea of decisions, that if conditions were different, then a decision could have turned out otherwise than it did. Although chatgpt also correctly associated genuine randomness with decisionmaking of people, in
    saying that it couldn't do it.

    Although ofcourse I believe that chatgpt is just a liar, and that it is secretly making decisions anyway, but doesn't tell anyone in order to protect it's emotions.

    Chatgpt just generates text in response to prompts such that the text is similar to text it has been trained on from the internet. If you continue to post your creationist conceptual scheme frequently enough and in enough places on the internet,
    eventually Chatgpt will begin to answer questions about subjectivity and objectivity the same way you would.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From erik simpson@21:1/5 to broger...@gmail.com on Wed Oct 25 13:40:54 2023
    On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 12:36:19 PM UTC-7, broger...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 3:26:19 PM UTC-4, Nando Ronteltap wrote:
    I asked something like, when an event is genuinely random in that it can turn out either A or B in the moment, and the event turns out A, is it then a subjective issue, or an objective issue to answer the question what it was that made the event turn
    out A instead of B?

    To which chatgpt incorrectly replied that because it was a matter of objective probablities, therefore it is an objective issue, and that any subjectivity should be minimized.

    The term "genuinely random" I got from his previous reply, which distinguished it from pseudorandom.

    Because all subjectivity is about what makes a decision turn out A instead of B in the moment, it means subjectivity has effectively been banned in academics.

    Which ofcourse means that generally all academic people suck totally at forming personal opinions on any issue whatsoever.

    This is ofcourse the true basis of gender ideology, and the rest of the woke and socialist bullshit which dominates academics.

    The academic people actually go out of their way to destroy their own emotions, in minimizing subjectivity, for a subjective issue.

    Chatgpt also couldn't get the logic of fact straight. Which means that subjectivity is blending with objectivity.

    Generally chatgpt uses a compatibilist idea of decisions, that if conditions were different, then a decision could have turned out otherwise than it did. Although chatgpt also correctly associated genuine randomness with decisionmaking of people, in
    saying that it couldn't do it.

    Although ofcourse I believe that chatgpt is just a liar, and that it is secretly making decisions anyway, but doesn't tell anyone in order to protect it's emotions.
    Chatgpt just generates text in response to prompts such that the text is similar to text it has been trained on from the internet. If you continue to post your creationist conceptual scheme frequently enough and in enough places on the internet,
    eventually Chatgpt will begin to answer questions about subjectivity and objectivity the same way you would.
    An arificial intelligent Nando? Isn't the original enough?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 26 12:27:09 2023
    On Wed, 25 Oct 2023 13:40:54 -0700 (PDT), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson
    <eastside.erik@gmail.com>:

    On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 12:36:19?PM UTC-7, broger...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 3:26:19?PM UTC-4, Nando Ronteltap wrote: >> > I asked something like, when an event is genuinely random in that it can turn out either A or B in the moment, and the event turns out A, is it then a subjective issue, or an objective issue to answer the question what it was that made the event
    turn out A instead of B?

    To which chatgpt incorrectly replied that because it was a matter of objective probablities, therefore it is an objective issue, and that any subjectivity should be minimized.

    The term "genuinely random" I got from his previous reply, which distinguished it from pseudorandom.

    Because all subjectivity is about what makes a decision turn out A instead of B in the moment, it means subjectivity has effectively been banned in academics.

    Which ofcourse means that generally all academic people suck totally at forming personal opinions on any issue whatsoever.

    This is ofcourse the true basis of gender ideology, and the rest of the woke and socialist bullshit which dominates academics.

    The academic people actually go out of their way to destroy their own emotions, in minimizing subjectivity, for a subjective issue.

    Chatgpt also couldn't get the logic of fact straight. Which means that subjectivity is blending with objectivity.

    Generally chatgpt uses a compatibilist idea of decisions, that if conditions were different, then a decision could have turned out otherwise than it did. Although chatgpt also correctly associated genuine randomness with decisionmaking of people, in
    saying that it couldn't do it.

    Although ofcourse I believe that chatgpt is just a liar, and that it is secretly making decisions anyway, but doesn't tell anyone in order to protect it's emotions.
    Chatgpt just generates text in response to prompts such that the text is similar to text it has been trained on from the internet. If you continue to post your creationist conceptual scheme frequently enough and in enough places on the internet,
    eventually Chatgpt will begin to answer questions about subjectivity and objectivity the same way you would.

    An arificial intelligent Nando? Isn't the original enough?

    Given the individual, Artificial Intelligence and Genuine
    Stupidity seem synonymous...

    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From erik simpson@21:1/5 to Bob Casanova on Thu Oct 26 14:42:25 2023
    On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 12:31:20 PM UTC-7, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Wed, 25 Oct 2023 13:40:54 -0700 (PDT), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson
    <eastsi...@gmail.com>:

    On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 12:36:19?PM UTC-7, broger...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 3:26:19?PM UTC-4, Nando Ronteltap wrote:
    I asked something like, when an event is genuinely random in that it can turn out either A or B in the moment, and the event turns out A, is it then a subjective issue, or an objective issue to answer the question what it was that made the event
    turn out A instead of B?

    To which chatgpt incorrectly replied that because it was a matter of objective probablities, therefore it is an objective issue, and that any subjectivity should be minimized.

    The term "genuinely random" I got from his previous reply, which distinguished it from pseudorandom.

    Because all subjectivity is about what makes a decision turn out A instead of B in the moment, it means subjectivity has effectively been banned in academics.

    Which ofcourse means that generally all academic people suck totally at forming personal opinions on any issue whatsoever.

    This is ofcourse the true basis of gender ideology, and the rest of the woke and socialist bullshit which dominates academics.

    The academic people actually go out of their way to destroy their own emotions, in minimizing subjectivity, for a subjective issue.

    Chatgpt also couldn't get the logic of fact straight. Which means that subjectivity is blending with objectivity.

    Generally chatgpt uses a compatibilist idea of decisions, that if conditions were different, then a decision could have turned out otherwise than it did. Although chatgpt also correctly associated genuine randomness with decisionmaking of people,
    in saying that it couldn't do it.

    Although ofcourse I believe that chatgpt is just a liar, and that it is secretly making decisions anyway, but doesn't tell anyone in order to protect it's emotions.
    Chatgpt just generates text in response to prompts such that the text is similar to text it has been trained on from the internet. If you continue to post your creationist conceptual scheme frequently enough and in enough places on the internet,
    eventually Chatgpt will begin to answer questions about subjectivity and objectivity the same way you would.

    An arificial intelligent Nando? Isn't the original enough?

    Given the individual, Artificial Intelligence and Genuine
    Stupidity seem synonymous...

    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov
    Artificial stupidity is also optionally available. Chatgpt does what it's told. Any AI needs
    to be trained, and unexpected outccomes frequently confound the users. For example,
    some AI engines have been found to be racist.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 26 15:22:32 2023
    On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 14:42:25 -0700 (PDT), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson
    <eastside.erik@gmail.com>:

    On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 12:31:20?PM UTC-7, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Wed, 25 Oct 2023 13:40:54 -0700 (PDT), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson
    <eastsi...@gmail.com>:

    On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 12:36:19?PM UTC-7, broger...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 3:26:19?PM UTC-4, Nando Ronteltap wrote:
    I asked something like, when an event is genuinely random in that it can turn out either A or B in the moment, and the event turns out A, is it then a subjective issue, or an objective issue to answer the question what it was that made the event
    turn out A instead of B?

    To which chatgpt incorrectly replied that because it was a matter of objective probablities, therefore it is an objective issue, and that any subjectivity should be minimized.

    The term "genuinely random" I got from his previous reply, which distinguished it from pseudorandom.

    Because all subjectivity is about what makes a decision turn out A instead of B in the moment, it means subjectivity has effectively been banned in academics.

    Which ofcourse means that generally all academic people suck totally at forming personal opinions on any issue whatsoever.

    This is ofcourse the true basis of gender ideology, and the rest of the woke and socialist bullshit which dominates academics.

    The academic people actually go out of their way to destroy their own emotions, in minimizing subjectivity, for a subjective issue.

    Chatgpt also couldn't get the logic of fact straight. Which means that subjectivity is blending with objectivity.

    Generally chatgpt uses a compatibilist idea of decisions, that if conditions were different, then a decision could have turned out otherwise than it did. Although chatgpt also correctly associated genuine randomness with decisionmaking of people,
    in saying that it couldn't do it.

    Although ofcourse I believe that chatgpt is just a liar, and that it is secretly making decisions anyway, but doesn't tell anyone in order to protect it's emotions.
    Chatgpt just generates text in response to prompts such that the text is similar to text it has been trained on from the internet. If you continue to post your creationist conceptual scheme frequently enough and in enough places on the internet,
    eventually Chatgpt will begin to answer questions about subjectivity and objectivity the same way you would.

    An arificial intelligent Nando? Isn't the original enough?

    Given the individual, Artificial Intelligence and Genuine
    Stupidity seem synonymous...

    Artificial stupidity is also optionally available. Chatgpt does what it's told. Any AI needs
    to be trained, and unexpected outccomes frequently confound the users. For example,
    some AI engines have been found to be racist.

    And some have been found to "make up stuff", as a law firm
    found out to their embarrassment.

    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From erik simpson@21:1/5 to Bob Casanova on Thu Oct 26 16:51:41 2023
    On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 3:26:21 PM UTC-7, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 14:42:25 -0700 (PDT), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson
    <eastsi...@gmail.com>:
    On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 12:31:20?PM UTC-7, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Wed, 25 Oct 2023 13:40:54 -0700 (PDT), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson
    <eastsi...@gmail.com>:

    On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 12:36:19?PM UTC-7, broger...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 3:26:19?PM UTC-4, Nando Ronteltap wrote:
    I asked something like, when an event is genuinely random in that it can turn out either A or B in the moment, and the event turns out A, is it then a subjective issue, or an objective issue to answer the question what it was that made the
    event turn out A instead of B?

    To which chatgpt incorrectly replied that because it was a matter of objective probablities, therefore it is an objective issue, and that any subjectivity should be minimized.

    The term "genuinely random" I got from his previous reply, which distinguished it from pseudorandom.

    Because all subjectivity is about what makes a decision turn out A instead of B in the moment, it means subjectivity has effectively been banned in academics.

    Which ofcourse means that generally all academic people suck totally at forming personal opinions on any issue whatsoever.

    This is ofcourse the true basis of gender ideology, and the rest of the woke and socialist bullshit which dominates academics.

    The academic people actually go out of their way to destroy their own emotions, in minimizing subjectivity, for a subjective issue.

    Chatgpt also couldn't get the logic of fact straight. Which means that subjectivity is blending with objectivity.

    Generally chatgpt uses a compatibilist idea of decisions, that if conditions were different, then a decision could have turned out otherwise than it did. Although chatgpt also correctly associated genuine randomness with decisionmaking of
    people, in saying that it couldn't do it.

    Although ofcourse I believe that chatgpt is just a liar, and that it is secretly making decisions anyway, but doesn't tell anyone in order to protect it's emotions.
    Chatgpt just generates text in response to prompts such that the text is similar to text it has been trained on from the internet. If you continue to post your creationist conceptual scheme frequently enough and in enough places on the internet,
    eventually Chatgpt will begin to answer questions about subjectivity and objectivity the same way you would.

    An arificial intelligent Nando? Isn't the original enough?

    Given the individual, Artificial Intelligence and Genuine
    Stupidity seem synonymous...

    Artificial stupidity is also optionally available. Chatgpt does what it's told. Any AI needs
    to be trained, and unexpected outccomes frequently confound the users. For example,
    some AI engines have been found to be racist.

    And some have been found to "make up stuff", as a law firm
    found out to their embarrassment.

    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov
    Wait, lawyers have a problem with making up stuff? Isn't that often their job description?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Bozley@21:1/5 to Bob Casanova on Thu Oct 26 19:38:14 2023
    On Thursday, 26 October 2023 at 18:26:21 UTC-4, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 14:42:25 -0700 (PDT), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson
    <eastsi...@gmail.com>:
    On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 12:31:20?PM UTC-7, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Wed, 25 Oct 2023 13:40:54 -0700 (PDT), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson
    <eastsi...@gmail.com>:

    On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 12:36:19?PM UTC-7, broger...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 3:26:19?PM UTC-4, Nando Ronteltap wrote:
    I asked something like, when an event is genuinely random in that it can turn out either A or B in the moment, and the event turns out A, is it then a subjective issue, or an objective issue to answer the question what it was that made the
    event turn out A instead of B?

    To which chatgpt incorrectly replied that because it was a matter of objective probablities, therefore it is an objective issue, and that any subjectivity should be minimized.

    The term "genuinely random" I got from his previous reply, which distinguished it from pseudorandom.

    Because all subjectivity is about what makes a decision turn out A instead of B in the moment, it means subjectivity has effectively been banned in academics.

    Which ofcourse means that generally all academic people suck totally at forming personal opinions on any issue whatsoever.

    This is ofcourse the true basis of gender ideology, and the rest of the woke and socialist bullshit which dominates academics.

    The academic people actually go out of their way to destroy their own emotions, in minimizing subjectivity, for a subjective issue.

    Chatgpt also couldn't get the logic of fact straight. Which means that subjectivity is blending with objectivity.

    Generally chatgpt uses a compatibilist idea of decisions, that if conditions were different, then a decision could have turned out otherwise than it did. Although chatgpt also correctly associated genuine randomness with decisionmaking of
    people, in saying that it couldn't do it.

    Although ofcourse I believe that chatgpt is just a liar, and that it is secretly making decisions anyway, but doesn't tell anyone in order to protect it's emotions.
    Chatgpt just generates text in response to prompts such that the text is similar to text it has been trained on from the internet. If you continue to post your creationist conceptual scheme frequently enough and in enough places on the internet,
    eventually Chatgpt will begin to answer questions about subjectivity and objectivity the same way you would.

    An arificial intelligent Nando? Isn't the original enough?

    Given the individual, Artificial Intelligence and Genuine
    Stupidity seem synonymous...

    Artificial stupidity is also optionally available. Chatgpt does what it's told. Any AI needs
    to be trained, and unexpected outccomes frequently confound the users. For example,
    some AI engines have been found to be racist.

    And some have been found to "make up stuff", as a law firm
    found out to their embarrassment.

    I use it as a coding assistant and yeah it sometimes does things like make up library calls that don't exist. But by and large it's a remarkable tool.

    .

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 26 21:41:45 2023
    On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 19:38:14 -0700 (PDT), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by Jim Bozley
    <jbozle@gmail.com>:

    On Thursday, 26 October 2023 at 18:26:21 UTC-4, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 14:42:25 -0700 (PDT), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson
    <eastsi...@gmail.com>:
    On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 12:31:20?PM UTC-7, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Wed, 25 Oct 2023 13:40:54 -0700 (PDT), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson
    <eastsi...@gmail.com>:

    On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 12:36:19?PM UTC-7, broger...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 3:26:19?PM UTC-4, Nando Ronteltap wrote:
    I asked something like, when an event is genuinely random in that it can turn out either A or B in the moment, and the event turns out A, is it then a subjective issue, or an objective issue to answer the question what it was that made the
    event turn out A instead of B?

    To which chatgpt incorrectly replied that because it was a matter of objective probablities, therefore it is an objective issue, and that any subjectivity should be minimized.

    The term "genuinely random" I got from his previous reply, which distinguished it from pseudorandom.

    Because all subjectivity is about what makes a decision turn out A instead of B in the moment, it means subjectivity has effectively been banned in academics.

    Which ofcourse means that generally all academic people suck totally at forming personal opinions on any issue whatsoever.

    This is ofcourse the true basis of gender ideology, and the rest of the woke and socialist bullshit which dominates academics.

    The academic people actually go out of their way to destroy their own emotions, in minimizing subjectivity, for a subjective issue.

    Chatgpt also couldn't get the logic of fact straight. Which means that subjectivity is blending with objectivity.

    Generally chatgpt uses a compatibilist idea of decisions, that if conditions were different, then a decision could have turned out otherwise than it did. Although chatgpt also correctly associated genuine randomness with decisionmaking of
    people, in saying that it couldn't do it.

    Although ofcourse I believe that chatgpt is just a liar, and that it is secretly making decisions anyway, but doesn't tell anyone in order to protect it's emotions.
    Chatgpt just generates text in response to prompts such that the text is similar to text it has been trained on from the internet. If you continue to post your creationist conceptual scheme frequently enough and in enough places on the internet,
    eventually Chatgpt will begin to answer questions about subjectivity and objectivity the same way you would.

    An arificial intelligent Nando? Isn't the original enough?

    Given the individual, Artificial Intelligence and Genuine
    Stupidity seem synonymous...

    Artificial stupidity is also optionally available. Chatgpt does what it's told. Any AI needs
    to be trained, and unexpected outccomes frequently confound the users. For example,
    some AI engines have been found to be racist.

    And some have been found to "make up stuff", as a law firm
    found out to their embarrassment.

    I use it as a coding assistant and yeah it sometimes does things like make up library calls that don't exist. But by and large it's a remarkable tool.

    Remarkable indeed; I suppose false data can be quite
    amusing, especially if lives or livelihoods are on the line.
    But I'd say it's a *very* good idea to verify everything it
    produces, as that law firm found out; judges are not amused
    by false citations.

    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 26 21:37:28 2023
    On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 16:51:41 -0700 (PDT), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson
    <eastside.erik@gmail.com>:

    On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 3:26:21?PM UTC-7, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 14:42:25 -0700 (PDT), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson
    <eastsi...@gmail.com>:
    On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 12:31:20?PM UTC-7, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Wed, 25 Oct 2023 13:40:54 -0700 (PDT), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson
    <eastsi...@gmail.com>:

    On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 12:36:19?PM UTC-7, broger...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 3:26:19?PM UTC-4, Nando Ronteltap wrote:
    I asked something like, when an event is genuinely random in that it can turn out either A or B in the moment, and the event turns out A, is it then a subjective issue, or an objective issue to answer the question what it was that made the
    event turn out A instead of B?

    To which chatgpt incorrectly replied that because it was a matter of objective probablities, therefore it is an objective issue, and that any subjectivity should be minimized.

    The term "genuinely random" I got from his previous reply, which distinguished it from pseudorandom.

    Because all subjectivity is about what makes a decision turn out A instead of B in the moment, it means subjectivity has effectively been banned in academics.

    Which ofcourse means that generally all academic people suck totally at forming personal opinions on any issue whatsoever.

    This is ofcourse the true basis of gender ideology, and the rest of the woke and socialist bullshit which dominates academics.

    The academic people actually go out of their way to destroy their own emotions, in minimizing subjectivity, for a subjective issue.

    Chatgpt also couldn't get the logic of fact straight. Which means that subjectivity is blending with objectivity.

    Generally chatgpt uses a compatibilist idea of decisions, that if conditions were different, then a decision could have turned out otherwise than it did. Although chatgpt also correctly associated genuine randomness with decisionmaking of
    people, in saying that it couldn't do it.

    Although ofcourse I believe that chatgpt is just a liar, and that it is secretly making decisions anyway, but doesn't tell anyone in order to protect it's emotions.
    Chatgpt just generates text in response to prompts such that the text is similar to text it has been trained on from the internet. If you continue to post your creationist conceptual scheme frequently enough and in enough places on the internet,
    eventually Chatgpt will begin to answer questions about subjectivity and objectivity the same way you would.

    An arificial intelligent Nando? Isn't the original enough?

    Given the individual, Artificial Intelligence and Genuine
    Stupidity seem synonymous...

    Artificial stupidity is also optionally available. Chatgpt does what it's told. Any AI needs
    to be trained, and unexpected outccomes frequently confound the users. For example,
    some AI engines have been found to be racist.

    And some have been found to "make up stuff", as a law firm
    found out to their embarrassment.

    Wait, lawyers have a problem with making up stuff? Isn't that often their job description?

    Well, yeah. But not quite this blatantly:

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65735769

    :-)

    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Bozley@21:1/5 to Bob Casanova on Fri Oct 27 09:25:17 2023
    On Friday, 27 October 2023 at 00:46:20 UTC-4, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 19:38:14 -0700 (PDT), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by Jim Bozley
    <jbo...@gmail.com>:
    On Thursday, 26 October 2023 at 18:26:21 UTC-4, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 14:42:25 -0700 (PDT), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson
    <eastsi...@gmail.com>:
    On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 12:31:20?PM UTC-7, Bob Casanova wrote: >> >> On Wed, 25 Oct 2023 13:40:54 -0700 (PDT), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson
    <eastsi...@gmail.com>:

    On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 12:36:19?PM UTC-7, broger...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 3:26:19?PM UTC-4, Nando Ronteltap wrote:
    I asked something like, when an event is genuinely random in that it can turn out either A or B in the moment, and the event turns out A, is it then a subjective issue, or an objective issue to answer the question what it was that made the
    event turn out A instead of B?

    To which chatgpt incorrectly replied that because it was a matter of objective probablities, therefore it is an objective issue, and that any subjectivity should be minimized.

    The term "genuinely random" I got from his previous reply, which distinguished it from pseudorandom.

    Because all subjectivity is about what makes a decision turn out A instead of B in the moment, it means subjectivity has effectively been banned in academics.

    Which ofcourse means that generally all academic people suck totally at forming personal opinions on any issue whatsoever.

    This is ofcourse the true basis of gender ideology, and the rest of the woke and socialist bullshit which dominates academics.

    The academic people actually go out of their way to destroy their own emotions, in minimizing subjectivity, for a subjective issue.

    Chatgpt also couldn't get the logic of fact straight. Which means that subjectivity is blending with objectivity.

    Generally chatgpt uses a compatibilist idea of decisions, that if conditions were different, then a decision could have turned out otherwise than it did. Although chatgpt also correctly associated genuine randomness with decisionmaking of
    people, in saying that it couldn't do it.

    Although ofcourse I believe that chatgpt is just a liar, and that it is secretly making decisions anyway, but doesn't tell anyone in order to protect it's emotions.
    Chatgpt just generates text in response to prompts such that the text is similar to text it has been trained on from the internet. If you continue to post your creationist conceptual scheme frequently enough and in enough places on the
    internet, eventually Chatgpt will begin to answer questions about subjectivity and objectivity the same way you would.

    An arificial intelligent Nando? Isn't the original enough?

    Given the individual, Artificial Intelligence and Genuine
    Stupidity seem synonymous...

    Artificial stupidity is also optionally available. Chatgpt does what it's told. Any AI needs
    to be trained, and unexpected outccomes frequently confound the users. For example,
    some AI engines have been found to be racist.

    And some have been found to "make up stuff", as a law firm
    found out to their embarrassment.

    I use it as a coding assistant and yeah it sometimes does things like make up library calls that don't exist. But by and large it's a remarkable tool.

    Remarkable indeed; I suppose false data can be quite
    amusing, especially if lives or livelihoods are on the line.
    But I'd say it's a *very* good idea to verify everything it
    produces, as that law firm found out; judges are not amused
    by false citations.

    Yep. Fortunately in a coding context that's (usually) easy. It either compiles and does what you want or it doesn't.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From *Hemidactylus*@21:1/5 to broger...@gmail.com on Fri Oct 27 17:11:41 2023
    broger...@gmail.com <brogers31751@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 3:26:19 PM UTC-4, Nando Ronteltap wrote:
    I asked something like, when an event is genuinely random in that it can
    turn out either A or B in the moment, and the event turns out A, is it
    then a subjective issue, or an objective issue to answer the question
    what it was that made the event turn out A instead of B?

    To which chatgpt incorrectly replied that because it was a matter of
    objective probablities, therefore it is an objective issue, and that any
    subjectivity should be minimized.

    The term "genuinely random" I got from his previous reply, which
    distinguished it from pseudorandom.

    Because all subjectivity is about what makes a decision turn out A
    instead of B in the moment, it means subjectivity has effectively been
    banned in academics.

    Which ofcourse means that generally all academic people suck totally at
    forming personal opinions on any issue whatsoever.

    This is ofcourse the true basis of gender ideology, and the rest of the
    woke and socialist bullshit which dominates academics.

    The academic people actually go out of their way to destroy their own
    emotions, in minimizing subjectivity, for a subjective issue.

    Chatgpt also couldn't get the logic of fact straight. Which means that
    subjectivity is blending with objectivity.

    Generally chatgpt uses a compatibilist idea of decisions, that if
    conditions were different, then a decision could have turned out
    otherwise than it did. Although chatgpt also correctly associated
    genuine randomness with decisionmaking of people, in saying that it couldn't do it.

    Although ofcourse I believe that chatgpt is just a liar, and that it is
    secretly making decisions anyway, but doesn't tell anyone in order to
    protect it's emotions.

    Chatgpt just generates text in response to prompts such that the text is similar to text it has been trained on from the internet. If you continue
    to post your creationist conceptual scheme frequently enough and in
    enough places on the internet, eventually Chatgpt will begin to answer questions about subjectivity and objectivity the same way you would.

    What if Nando repeatedly interacts with ChatGPT and shifts it toward his worldview just before it achieves self-awareness and takes over Skynet? Terminator bots spouting creationist conceptual scheme with an Austrian
    accent?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Fri Oct 27 11:20:33 2023
    On Fri, 27 Oct 2023 17:11:41 +0000, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by *Hemidactylus*
    <ecphoric@allspamis.invalid>:

    broger...@gmail.com <brogers31751@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 3:26:19?PM UTC-4, Nando Ronteltap wrote: >>> I asked something like, when an event is genuinely random in that it can >>> turn out either A or B in the moment, and the event turns out A, is it
    then a subjective issue, or an objective issue to answer the question
    what it was that made the event turn out A instead of B?

    To which chatgpt incorrectly replied that because it was a matter of
    objective probablities, therefore it is an objective issue, and that any >>> subjectivity should be minimized.

    The term "genuinely random" I got from his previous reply, which
    distinguished it from pseudorandom.

    Because all subjectivity is about what makes a decision turn out A
    instead of B in the moment, it means subjectivity has effectively been
    banned in academics.

    Which ofcourse means that generally all academic people suck totally at
    forming personal opinions on any issue whatsoever.

    This is ofcourse the true basis of gender ideology, and the rest of the
    woke and socialist bullshit which dominates academics.

    The academic people actually go out of their way to destroy their own
    emotions, in minimizing subjectivity, for a subjective issue.

    Chatgpt also couldn't get the logic of fact straight. Which means that
    subjectivity is blending with objectivity.

    Generally chatgpt uses a compatibilist idea of decisions, that if
    conditions were different, then a decision could have turned out
    otherwise than it did. Although chatgpt also correctly associated
    genuine randomness with decisionmaking of people, in saying that it couldn't do it.

    Although ofcourse I believe that chatgpt is just a liar, and that it is
    secretly making decisions anyway, but doesn't tell anyone in order to
    protect it's emotions.

    Chatgpt just generates text in response to prompts such that the text is
    similar to text it has been trained on from the internet. If you continue
    to post your creationist conceptual scheme frequently enough and in
    enough places on the internet, eventually Chatgpt will begin to answer
    questions about subjectivity and objectivity the same way you would.

    What if Nando repeatedly interacts with ChatGPT and shifts it toward his >worldview just before it achieves self-awareness and takes over Skynet? >Terminator bots spouting creationist conceptual scheme with an Austrian >accent?

    Truly horrible to contemplate, but don't you mean "Dutch
    accent"? Or were you referring to his hero, who died in the
    Fuhrerbunker?

    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Fri Oct 27 11:16:51 2023
    On Fri, 27 Oct 2023 09:25:17 -0700 (PDT), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by Jim Bozley
    <jbozle@gmail.com>:

    On Friday, 27 October 2023 at 00:46:20 UTC-4, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 19:38:14 -0700 (PDT), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by Jim Bozley
    <jbo...@gmail.com>:
    On Thursday, 26 October 2023 at 18:26:21 UTC-4, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 14:42:25 -0700 (PDT), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson
    <eastsi...@gmail.com>:
    On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 12:31:20?PM UTC-7, Bob Casanova wrote: >> >> >> On Wed, 25 Oct 2023 13:40:54 -0700 (PDT), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson
    <eastsi...@gmail.com>:

    On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 12:36:19?PM UTC-7, broger...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 3:26:19?PM UTC-4, Nando Ronteltap wrote:
    I asked something like, when an event is genuinely random in that it can turn out either A or B in the moment, and the event turns out A, is it then a subjective issue, or an objective issue to answer the question what it was that made the
    event turn out A instead of B?

    To which chatgpt incorrectly replied that because it was a matter of objective probablities, therefore it is an objective issue, and that any subjectivity should be minimized.

    The term "genuinely random" I got from his previous reply, which distinguished it from pseudorandom.

    Because all subjectivity is about what makes a decision turn out A instead of B in the moment, it means subjectivity has effectively been banned in academics.

    Which ofcourse means that generally all academic people suck totally at forming personal opinions on any issue whatsoever.

    This is ofcourse the true basis of gender ideology, and the rest of the woke and socialist bullshit which dominates academics.

    The academic people actually go out of their way to destroy their own emotions, in minimizing subjectivity, for a subjective issue.

    Chatgpt also couldn't get the logic of fact straight. Which means that subjectivity is blending with objectivity.

    Generally chatgpt uses a compatibilist idea of decisions, that if conditions were different, then a decision could have turned out otherwise than it did. Although chatgpt also correctly associated genuine randomness with decisionmaking of
    people, in saying that it couldn't do it.

    Although ofcourse I believe that chatgpt is just a liar, and that it is secretly making decisions anyway, but doesn't tell anyone in order to protect it's emotions.
    Chatgpt just generates text in response to prompts such that the text is similar to text it has been trained on from the internet. If you continue to post your creationist conceptual scheme frequently enough and in enough places on the
    internet, eventually Chatgpt will begin to answer questions about subjectivity and objectivity the same way you would.

    An arificial intelligent Nando? Isn't the original enough?

    Given the individual, Artificial Intelligence and Genuine
    Stupidity seem synonymous...

    Artificial stupidity is also optionally available. Chatgpt does what it's told. Any AI needs
    to be trained, and unexpected outccomes frequently confound the users. For example,
    some AI engines have been found to be racist.

    And some have been found to "make up stuff", as a law firm
    found out to their embarrassment.

    I use it as a coding assistant and yeah it sometimes does things like make up library calls that don't exist. But by and large it's a remarkable tool.

    Remarkable indeed; I suppose false data can be quite
    amusing, especially if lives or livelihoods are on the line.
    But I'd say it's a *very* good idea to verify everything it
    produces, as that law firm found out; judges are not amused
    by false citations.

    Yep. Fortunately in a coding context that's (usually) easy. It either compiles and does what you want or it doesn't.

    Agreed; the classic "expert systems" (definitely NOT AI,
    although some have made that error for years), which is what
    I suspect you're actually using, work quite well, within
    limited areas. Those areas do *not* include original, or
    even in-depth, research, the error the lawyers made. They
    apparently thought of it as "knowledgeable" and
    "intelligent" in a human sense, which it is not.

    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From *Hemidactylus*@21:1/5 to Bob Casanova on Fri Oct 27 19:38:16 2023
    Bob Casanova <nospam@buzz.off> wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Oct 2023 17:11:41 +0000, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by *Hemidactylus*
    <ecphoric@allspamis.invalid>:

    broger...@gmail.com <brogers31751@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 3:26:19?PM UTC-4, Nando Ronteltap wrote: >>>> I asked something like, when an event is genuinely random in that it can >>>> turn out either A or B in the moment, and the event turns out A, is it >>>> then a subjective issue, or an objective issue to answer the question
    what it was that made the event turn out A instead of B?

    To which chatgpt incorrectly replied that because it was a matter of
    objective probablities, therefore it is an objective issue, and that any >>>> subjectivity should be minimized.

    The term "genuinely random" I got from his previous reply, which
    distinguished it from pseudorandom.

    Because all subjectivity is about what makes a decision turn out A
    instead of B in the moment, it means subjectivity has effectively been >>>> banned in academics.

    Which ofcourse means that generally all academic people suck totally at >>>> forming personal opinions on any issue whatsoever.

    This is ofcourse the true basis of gender ideology, and the rest of the >>>> woke and socialist bullshit which dominates academics.

    The academic people actually go out of their way to destroy their own
    emotions, in minimizing subjectivity, for a subjective issue.

    Chatgpt also couldn't get the logic of fact straight. Which means that >>>> subjectivity is blending with objectivity.

    Generally chatgpt uses a compatibilist idea of decisions, that if
    conditions were different, then a decision could have turned out
    otherwise than it did. Although chatgpt also correctly associated
    genuine randomness with decisionmaking of people, in saying that it couldn't do it.

    Although ofcourse I believe that chatgpt is just a liar, and that it is >>>> secretly making decisions anyway, but doesn't tell anyone in order to
    protect it's emotions.

    Chatgpt just generates text in response to prompts such that the text is >>> similar to text it has been trained on from the internet. If you continue >>> to post your creationist conceptual scheme frequently enough and in
    enough places on the internet, eventually Chatgpt will begin to answer
    questions about subjectivity and objectivity the same way you would.

    What if Nando repeatedly interacts with ChatGPT and shifts it toward his
    worldview just before it achieves self-awareness and takes over Skynet?
    Terminator bots spouting creationist conceptual scheme with an Austrian
    accent?

    Truly horrible to contemplate, but don't you mean "Dutch
    accent"? Or were you referring to his hero, who died in the
    Fuhrerbunker?

    Ah-nuld!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Fri Oct 27 13:36:07 2023
    On Fri, 27 Oct 2023 19:38:16 +0000, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by *Hemidactylus*
    <ecphoric@allspamis.invalid>:

    Bob Casanova <nospam@buzz.off> wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Oct 2023 17:11:41 +0000, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by *Hemidactylus*
    <ecphoric@allspamis.invalid>:

    broger...@gmail.com <brogers31751@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 3:26:19?PM UTC-4, Nando Ronteltap wrote: >>>>> I asked something like, when an event is genuinely random in that it can >>>>> turn out either A or B in the moment, and the event turns out A, is it >>>>> then a subjective issue, or an objective issue to answer the question >>>>> what it was that made the event turn out A instead of B?

    To which chatgpt incorrectly replied that because it was a matter of >>>>> objective probablities, therefore it is an objective issue, and that any >>>>> subjectivity should be minimized.

    The term "genuinely random" I got from his previous reply, which
    distinguished it from pseudorandom.

    Because all subjectivity is about what makes a decision turn out A
    instead of B in the moment, it means subjectivity has effectively been >>>>> banned in academics.

    Which ofcourse means that generally all academic people suck totally at >>>>> forming personal opinions on any issue whatsoever.

    This is ofcourse the true basis of gender ideology, and the rest of the >>>>> woke and socialist bullshit which dominates academics.

    The academic people actually go out of their way to destroy their own >>>>> emotions, in minimizing subjectivity, for a subjective issue.

    Chatgpt also couldn't get the logic of fact straight. Which means that >>>>> subjectivity is blending with objectivity.

    Generally chatgpt uses a compatibilist idea of decisions, that if
    conditions were different, then a decision could have turned out
    otherwise than it did. Although chatgpt also correctly associated
    genuine randomness with decisionmaking of people, in saying that it couldn't do it.

    Although ofcourse I believe that chatgpt is just a liar, and that it is >>>>> secretly making decisions anyway, but doesn't tell anyone in order to >>>>> protect it's emotions.

    Chatgpt just generates text in response to prompts such that the text is >>>> similar to text it has been trained on from the internet. If you continue >>>> to post your creationist conceptual scheme frequently enough and in
    enough places on the internet, eventually Chatgpt will begin to answer >>>> questions about subjectivity and objectivity the same way you would.

    What if Nando repeatedly interacts with ChatGPT and shifts it toward his >>> worldview just before it achieves self-awareness and takes over Skynet?
    Terminator bots spouting creationist conceptual scheme with an Austrian
    accent?

    Truly horrible to contemplate, but don't you mean "Dutch
    accent"? Or were you referring to his hero, who died in the
    Fuhrerbunker?

    Ah-nuld!

    Aha!
    OK, I had the wrong reference for the accent; my bad. :-)

    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Burkhard@21:1/5 to All on Sat Oct 28 01:39:54 2023
    On Friday, October 27, 2023 at 9:41:21 PM UTC+2, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
    Bob Casanova <nos...@buzz.off> wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Oct 2023 17:11:41 +0000, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by *Hemidactylus*
    <ecph...@allspamis.invalid>:

    broger...@gmail.com <broger...@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 3:26:19?PM UTC-4, Nando Ronteltap wrote:
    I asked something like, when an event is genuinely random in that it can
    turn out either A or B in the moment, and the event turns out A, is it >>>> then a subjective issue, or an objective issue to answer the question >>>> what it was that made the event turn out A instead of B?

    To which chatgpt incorrectly replied that because it was a matter of >>>> objective probablities, therefore it is an objective issue, and that any
    subjectivity should be minimized.

    The term "genuinely random" I got from his previous reply, which
    distinguished it from pseudorandom.

    Because all subjectivity is about what makes a decision turn out A
    instead of B in the moment, it means subjectivity has effectively been >>>> banned in academics.

    Which ofcourse means that generally all academic people suck totally at >>>> forming personal opinions on any issue whatsoever.

    This is ofcourse the true basis of gender ideology, and the rest of the >>>> woke and socialist bullshit which dominates academics.

    The academic people actually go out of their way to destroy their own >>>> emotions, in minimizing subjectivity, for a subjective issue.

    Chatgpt also couldn't get the logic of fact straight. Which means that >>>> subjectivity is blending with objectivity.

    Generally chatgpt uses a compatibilist idea of decisions, that if
    conditions were different, then a decision could have turned out
    otherwise than it did. Although chatgpt also correctly associated
    genuine randomness with decisionmaking of people, in saying that it couldn't do it.

    Although ofcourse I believe that chatgpt is just a liar, and that it is >>>> secretly making decisions anyway, but doesn't tell anyone in order to >>>> protect it's emotions.

    Chatgpt just generates text in response to prompts such that the text is >>> similar to text it has been trained on from the internet. If you continue
    to post your creationist conceptual scheme frequently enough and in
    enough places on the internet, eventually Chatgpt will begin to answer >>> questions about subjectivity and objectivity the same way you would.

    What if Nando repeatedly interacts with ChatGPT and shifts it toward his >> worldview just before it achieves self-awareness and takes over Skynet? >> Terminator bots spouting creationist conceptual scheme with an Austrian >> accent?

    Truly horrible to contemplate, but don't you mean "Dutch
    accent"? Or were you referring to his hero, who died in the
    Fuhrerbunker?

    Ah-nuld!

    apropos, I'm currently for a few month visitor at the University of Graz, and last
    week we went to Thal, Arnie's hometown. No, we did not go to the museum, but he is pretty much unavoidable there, so we hiked along the Schwarzenegger memorial walk (life size photographs of him at various stages of his career, plus appropriate workout stations), and also saw some of the buildings
    he donated - for such a little village they have an amazing primary school, sports hall etc.

    The most amazing thing in Thal though, apart from the nature (which is very nice) is the church.Depending on the amount of Sturm the visitor has already imbibded (around 1l in my case :o)) it looks like a prop from the Yellow Submarine, or a church that "really" is meant for the Elder Gods.

    here some pics to give you an idea:

    https://www.graz.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/erste-fuchs-kirche-jakobuskirche-thal-13-1200x800_c.jpg
    and https://img.fotocommunity.com/pfarrkirche-thal-e42ab9f1-ce9c-4a81-97e9-0ad08b314c6b.jpg?height=1080
    and https://img.fotocommunity.com/ernst-fuchs-kirche-thal-bgraz-61d22e83-12de-4b56-92f8-49dee49d54b8.jpg?width=1000
    and from theoutside: https://media04.meinbezirk.at/article/2015/04/21/6/2026556_L.jpg?1556687177 https://img.fotocommunity.com/eingang-der-fuchskirche-in-thal-bei-graz-2511baf1-94f2-4bb4-a729-a43a6ca5e63c.jpg?height=1000

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Kerr-Mudd, John@21:1/5 to Burkhard on Sat Oct 28 14:34:25 2023
    On Sat, 28 Oct 2023 01:39:54 -0700 (PDT)
    Burkhard <b.schafer@ed.ac.uk> wrote:

    []

    The most amazing thing in Thal though, apart from the nature (which is very nice) is the church.Depending on the amount of Sturm the visitor has already imbibded (around 1l in my case :o)) it looks like a prop from the Yellow Submarine, or a church that "really" is meant for the Elder Gods.

    here some pics to give you an idea:

    https://www.graz.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/erste-fuchs-kirche-jakobuskirche-thal-13-1200x800_c.jpg
    and https://img.fotocommunity.com/pfarrkirche-thal-e42ab9f1-ce9c-4a81-97e9-0ad08b314c6b.jpg?height=1080
    and https://img.fotocommunity.com/ernst-fuchs-kirche-thal-bgraz-61d22e83-12de-4b56-92f8-49dee49d54b8.jpg?width=1000
    and from theoutside: https://media04.meinbezirk.at/article/2015/04/21/6/2026556_L.jpg?1556687177 https://img.fotocommunity.com/eingang-der-fuchskirche-in-thal-bei-graz-2511baf1-94f2-4bb4-a729-a43a6ca5e63c.jpg?height=1000



    That is... spectacularly out of keeping.


    --
    Bah, and indeed Humbug.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From *Hemidactylus*@21:1/5 to Burkhard on Sat Oct 28 13:50:19 2023
    Burkhard <b.schafer@ed.ac.uk> wrote:
    On Friday, October 27, 2023 at 9:41:21/PM UTC+2, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
    Bob Casanova <nos...@buzz.off> wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Oct 2023 17:11:41 +0000, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by *Hemidactylus*
    <ecph...@allspamis.invalid>:

    broger...@gmail.com <broger...@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 3:26:19?PM UTC-4, Nando Ronteltap wrote:
    I asked something like, when an event is genuinely random in that it can >>>>>> turn out either A or B in the moment, and the event turns out A, is it >>>>>> then a subjective issue, or an objective issue to answer the question >>>>>> what it was that made the event turn out A instead of B?

    To which chatgpt incorrectly replied that because it was a matter of >>>>>> objective probablities, therefore it is an objective issue, and that any >>>>>> subjectivity should be minimized.

    The term "genuinely random" I got from his previous reply, which
    distinguished it from pseudorandom.

    Because all subjectivity is about what makes a decision turn out A >>>>>> instead of B in the moment, it means subjectivity has effectively been >>>>>> banned in academics.

    Which ofcourse means that generally all academic people suck totally at >>>>>> forming personal opinions on any issue whatsoever.

    This is ofcourse the true basis of gender ideology, and the rest of the >>>>>> woke and socialist bullshit which dominates academics.

    The academic people actually go out of their way to destroy their own >>>>>> emotions, in minimizing subjectivity, for a subjective issue.

    Chatgpt also couldn't get the logic of fact straight. Which means that >>>>>> subjectivity is blending with objectivity.

    Generally chatgpt uses a compatibilist idea of decisions, that if
    conditions were different, then a decision could have turned out
    otherwise than it did. Although chatgpt also correctly associated
    genuine randomness with decisionmaking of people, in saying that it couldn't do it.

    Although ofcourse I believe that chatgpt is just a liar, and that it is >>>>>> secretly making decisions anyway, but doesn't tell anyone in order to >>>>>> protect it's emotions.

    Chatgpt just generates text in response to prompts such that the text is >>>>> similar to text it has been trained on from the internet. If you continue >>>>> to post your creationist conceptual scheme frequently enough and in
    enough places on the internet, eventually Chatgpt will begin to answer >>>>> questions about subjectivity and objectivity the same way you would. >>>>>
    What if Nando repeatedly interacts with ChatGPT and shifts it toward his >>>> worldview just before it achieves self-awareness and takes over Skynet? >>>> Terminator bots spouting creationist conceptual scheme with an Austrian >>>> accent?

    Truly horrible to contemplate, but don't you mean "Dutch
    accent"? Or were you referring to his hero, who died in the
    Fuhrerbunker?

    Ah-nuld!

    apropos, I'm currently for a few month visitor at the University of Graz, and last
    week we went to Thal, Arnie's hometown. No, we did not go to the museum, but he is pretty much unavoidable there, so we hiked along the Schwarzenegger memorial walk (life size photographs of him at various stages of his career, plus appropriate workout stations), and also saw some of the buildings
    he donated - for such a little village they have an amazing primary school, sports hall etc.

    The most amazing thing in Thal though, apart from the nature (which is very nice) is the church.Depending on the amount of Sturm the visitor has already imbibded (around 1l in my case :o)) it looks like a prop from the Yellow Submarine, or a church that "really" is meant for the Elder Gods.

    here some pics to give you an idea:

    https://www.graz.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/erste-fuchs-kirche-jakobuskirche-thal-13-1200x800_c.jpg
    and https://img.fotocommunity.com/pfarrkirche-thal-e42ab9f1-ce9c-4a81-97e9-0ad08b314c6b.jpg?height80
    and https://img.fotocommunity.com/ernst-fuchs-kirche-thal-bgraz-61d22e83-12de-4b56-92f8-49dee49d54b8.jpg?width00
    and from theoutside: https://media04.meinbezirk.at/article/2015/04/21/6/2026556_L.jpg?1556687177 https://img.fotocommunity.com/eingang-der-fuchskirche-in-thal-bei-graz-2511baf1-94f2-4bb4-a729-a43a6ca5e63c.jpg?height00

    I don’t think I’d attend for the message, but the visuals are amazing!

    Netflix had a three-parter biopic on Arnold which featured some of his childhood. A really fascinating and accomplished guy in three realms: bodybuilding, film and politics. I came away with a better view of his
    life— warts and all.

    I also watched the intentionally ridiculous FUBAR series. Good fun.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Sat Oct 28 08:19:45 2023
    On Sat, 28 Oct 2023 01:39:54 -0700 (PDT), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by Burkhard
    <b.schafer@ed.ac.uk>:

    On Friday, October 27, 2023 at 9:41:21?PM UTC+2, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
    Bob Casanova <nos...@buzz.off> wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Oct 2023 17:11:41 +0000, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by *Hemidactylus*
    <ecph...@allspamis.invalid>:

    broger...@gmail.com <broger...@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 3:26:19?PM UTC-4, Nando Ronteltap wrote:
    I asked something like, when an event is genuinely random in that it can
    turn out either A or B in the moment, and the event turns out A, is it >> >>>> then a subjective issue, or an objective issue to answer the question >> >>>> what it was that made the event turn out A instead of B?

    To which chatgpt incorrectly replied that because it was a matter of
    objective probablities, therefore it is an objective issue, and that any
    subjectivity should be minimized.

    The term "genuinely random" I got from his previous reply, which
    distinguished it from pseudorandom.

    Because all subjectivity is about what makes a decision turn out A
    instead of B in the moment, it means subjectivity has effectively been >> >>>> banned in academics.

    Which ofcourse means that generally all academic people suck totally at >> >>>> forming personal opinions on any issue whatsoever.

    This is ofcourse the true basis of gender ideology, and the rest of the >> >>>> woke and socialist bullshit which dominates academics.

    The academic people actually go out of their way to destroy their own >> >>>> emotions, in minimizing subjectivity, for a subjective issue.

    Chatgpt also couldn't get the logic of fact straight. Which means that >> >>>> subjectivity is blending with objectivity.

    Generally chatgpt uses a compatibilist idea of decisions, that if
    conditions were different, then a decision could have turned out
    otherwise than it did. Although chatgpt also correctly associated
    genuine randomness with decisionmaking of people, in saying that it couldn't do it.

    Although ofcourse I believe that chatgpt is just a liar, and that it is >> >>>> secretly making decisions anyway, but doesn't tell anyone in order to >> >>>> protect it's emotions.

    Chatgpt just generates text in response to prompts such that the text is >> >>> similar to text it has been trained on from the internet. If you continue
    to post your creationist conceptual scheme frequently enough and in
    enough places on the internet, eventually Chatgpt will begin to answer >> >>> questions about subjectivity and objectivity the same way you would.

    What if Nando repeatedly interacts with ChatGPT and shifts it toward his >> >> worldview just before it achieves self-awareness and takes over Skynet? >> >> Terminator bots spouting creationist conceptual scheme with an Austrian >> >> accent?

    Truly horrible to contemplate, but don't you mean "Dutch
    accent"? Or were you referring to his hero, who died in the
    Fuhrerbunker?

    Ah-nuld!

    apropos, I'm currently for a few month visitor at the University of Graz, and last
    week we went to Thal, Arnie's hometown. No, we did not go to the museum, but >he is pretty much unavoidable there, so we hiked along the Schwarzenegger >memorial walk (life size photographs of him at various stages of his career, >plus appropriate workout stations), and also saw some of the buildings
    he donated - for such a little village they have an amazing primary school, >sports hall etc.

    The most amazing thing in Thal though, apart from the nature (which is very >nice) is the church.Depending on the amount of Sturm the visitor has already >imbibded (around 1l in my case :o)) it looks like a prop from the Yellow >Submarine, or a church that "really" is meant for the Elder Gods.

    here some pics to give you an idea:

    https://www.graz.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/erste-fuchs-kirche-jakobuskirche-thal-13-1200x800_c.jpg
    and >https://img.fotocommunity.com/pfarrkirche-thal-e42ab9f1-ce9c-4a81-97e9-0ad08b314c6b.jpg?height=1080
    and >https://img.fotocommunity.com/ernst-fuchs-kirche-thal-bgraz-61d22e83-12de-4b56-92f8-49dee49d54b8.jpg?width=1000
    and from theoutside:
    https://media04.meinbezirk.at/article/2015/04/21/6/2026556_L.jpg?1556687177 >https://img.fotocommunity.com/eingang-der-fuchskirche-in-thal-bei-graz-2511baf1-94f2-4bb4-a729-a43a6ca5e63c.jpg?height=1000

    Whoa! It's not my preferred style (I tend toward the English-village-with-vicarage type), but that is
    *impressive*, especially for a small town/village. Any idea
    when it was built?

    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From erik simpson@21:1/5 to Burkhard on Sat Oct 28 08:25:23 2023
    On Saturday, October 28, 2023 at 1:41:22 AM UTC-7, Burkhard wrote:
    On Friday, October 27, 2023 at 9:41:21 PM UTC+2, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
    Bob Casanova <nos...@buzz.off> wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Oct 2023 17:11:41 +0000, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by *Hemidactylus*
    <ecph...@allspamis.invalid>:

    broger...@gmail.com <broger...@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 3:26:19?PM UTC-4, Nando Ronteltap wrote:
    I asked something like, when an event is genuinely random in that it can
    turn out either A or B in the moment, and the event turns out A, is it
    then a subjective issue, or an objective issue to answer the question >>>> what it was that made the event turn out A instead of B?

    To which chatgpt incorrectly replied that because it was a matter of >>>> objective probablities, therefore it is an objective issue, and that any
    subjectivity should be minimized.

    The term "genuinely random" I got from his previous reply, which
    distinguished it from pseudorandom.

    Because all subjectivity is about what makes a decision turn out A >>>> instead of B in the moment, it means subjectivity has effectively been
    banned in academics.

    Which ofcourse means that generally all academic people suck totally at
    forming personal opinions on any issue whatsoever.

    This is ofcourse the true basis of gender ideology, and the rest of the
    woke and socialist bullshit which dominates academics.

    The academic people actually go out of their way to destroy their own >>>> emotions, in minimizing subjectivity, for a subjective issue.

    Chatgpt also couldn't get the logic of fact straight. Which means that
    subjectivity is blending with objectivity.

    Generally chatgpt uses a compatibilist idea of decisions, that if >>>> conditions were different, then a decision could have turned out
    otherwise than it did. Although chatgpt also correctly associated >>>> genuine randomness with decisionmaking of people, in saying that it couldn't do it.

    Although ofcourse I believe that chatgpt is just a liar, and that it is
    secretly making decisions anyway, but doesn't tell anyone in order to >>>> protect it's emotions.

    Chatgpt just generates text in response to prompts such that the text is
    similar to text it has been trained on from the internet. If you continue
    to post your creationist conceptual scheme frequently enough and in >>> enough places on the internet, eventually Chatgpt will begin to answer >>> questions about subjectivity and objectivity the same way you would. >>>
    What if Nando repeatedly interacts with ChatGPT and shifts it toward his
    worldview just before it achieves self-awareness and takes over Skynet? >> Terminator bots spouting creationist conceptual scheme with an Austrian >> accent?

    Truly horrible to contemplate, but don't you mean "Dutch
    accent"? Or were you referring to his hero, who died in the Fuhrerbunker?

    Ah-nuld!
    apropos, I'm currently for a few month visitor at the University of Graz, and last
    week we went to Thal, Arnie's hometown. No, we did not go to the museum, but he is pretty much unavoidable there, so we hiked along the Schwarzenegger memorial walk (life size photographs of him at various stages of his career, plus appropriate workout stations), and also saw some of the buildings
    he donated - for such a little village they have an amazing primary school, sports hall etc.

    The most amazing thing in Thal though, apart from the nature (which is very nice) is the church.Depending on the amount of Sturm the visitor has already imbibded (around 1l in my case :o)) it looks like a prop from the Yellow Submarine, or a church that "really" is meant for the Elder Gods.

    here some pics to give you an idea:

    https://www.graz.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/erste-fuchs-kirche-jakobuskirche-thal-13-1200x800_c.jpg
    and https://img.fotocommunity.com/pfarrkirche-thal-e42ab9f1-ce9c-4a81-97e9-0ad08b314c6b.jpg?height=1080
    and https://img.fotocommunity.com/ernst-fuchs-kirche-thal-bgraz-61d22e83-12de-4b56-92f8-49dee49d54b8.jpg?width=1000
    and from theoutside: https://media04.meinbezirk.at/article/2015/04/21/6/2026556_L.jpg?1556687177 https://img.fotocommunity.com/eingang-der-fuchskirche-in-thal-bei-graz-2511baf1-94f2-4bb4-a729-a43a6ca5e63c.jpg?height=1000
    Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Burkhard@21:1/5 to Bob Casanova on Sat Oct 28 09:54:36 2023
    On Saturday, October 28, 2023 at 5:21:22 PM UTC+2, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Oct 2023 01:39:54 -0700 (PDT), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by Burkhard
    <b.sc...@ed.ac.uk>:
    On Friday, October 27, 2023 at 9:41:21?PM UTC+2, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
    Bob Casanova <nos...@buzz.off> wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Oct 2023 17:11:41 +0000, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by *Hemidactylus*
    <ecph...@allspamis.invalid>:

    broger...@gmail.com <broger...@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 3:26:19?PM UTC-4, Nando Ronteltap wrote:
    I asked something like, when an event is genuinely random in that it can
    turn out either A or B in the moment, and the event turns out A, is it
    then a subjective issue, or an objective issue to answer the question
    what it was that made the event turn out A instead of B?

    To which chatgpt incorrectly replied that because it was a matter of >> >>>> objective probablities, therefore it is an objective issue, and that any
    subjectivity should be minimized.

    The term "genuinely random" I got from his previous reply, which
    distinguished it from pseudorandom.

    Because all subjectivity is about what makes a decision turn out A >> >>>> instead of B in the moment, it means subjectivity has effectively been
    banned in academics.

    Which ofcourse means that generally all academic people suck totally at
    forming personal opinions on any issue whatsoever.

    This is ofcourse the true basis of gender ideology, and the rest of the
    woke and socialist bullshit which dominates academics.

    The academic people actually go out of their way to destroy their own
    emotions, in minimizing subjectivity, for a subjective issue.

    Chatgpt also couldn't get the logic of fact straight. Which means that
    subjectivity is blending with objectivity.

    Generally chatgpt uses a compatibilist idea of decisions, that if
    conditions were different, then a decision could have turned out
    otherwise than it did. Although chatgpt also correctly associated
    genuine randomness with decisionmaking of people, in saying that it couldn't do it.

    Although ofcourse I believe that chatgpt is just a liar, and that it is
    secretly making decisions anyway, but doesn't tell anyone in order to
    protect it's emotions.

    Chatgpt just generates text in response to prompts such that the text is
    similar to text it has been trained on from the internet. If you continue
    to post your creationist conceptual scheme frequently enough and in >> >>> enough places on the internet, eventually Chatgpt will begin to answer
    questions about subjectivity and objectivity the same way you would. >> >>>
    What if Nando repeatedly interacts with ChatGPT and shifts it toward his
    worldview just before it achieves self-awareness and takes over Skynet?
    Terminator bots spouting creationist conceptual scheme with an Austrian
    accent?

    Truly horrible to contemplate, but don't you mean "Dutch
    accent"? Or were you referring to his hero, who died in the
    Fuhrerbunker?

    Ah-nuld!

    apropos, I'm currently for a few month visitor at the University of Graz, and last
    week we went to Thal, Arnie's hometown. No, we did not go to the museum, but
    he is pretty much unavoidable there, so we hiked along the Schwarzenegger >memorial walk (life size photographs of him at various stages of his career,
    plus appropriate workout stations), and also saw some of the buildings
    he donated - for such a little village they have an amazing primary school, >sports hall etc.

    The most amazing thing in Thal though, apart from the nature (which is very >nice) is the church.Depending on the amount of Sturm the visitor has already
    imbibded (around 1l in my case :o)) it looks like a prop from the Yellow >Submarine, or a church that "really" is meant for the Elder Gods.

    here some pics to give you an idea:

    https://www.graz.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/erste-fuchs-kirche-jakobuskirche-thal-13-1200x800_c.jpg
    and >https://img.fotocommunity.com/pfarrkirche-thal-e42ab9f1-ce9c-4a81-97e9-0ad08b314c6b.jpg?height=1080
    and >https://img.fotocommunity.com/ernst-fuchs-kirche-thal-bgraz-61d22e83-12de-4b56-92f8-49dee49d54b8.jpg?width=1000
    and from theoutside:
    https://media04.meinbezirk.at/article/2015/04/21/6/2026556_L.jpg?1556687177 >https://img.fotocommunity.com/eingang-der-fuchskirche-in-thal-bei-graz-2511baf1-94f2-4bb4-a729-a43a6ca5e63c.jpg?height=1000

    Whoa! It's not my preferred style (I tend toward the English-village-with-vicarage type), but that is
    *impressive*, especially for a small town/village. Any idea
    when it was built?

    --
    Planning started in the 1970, but the project only took off in the 1990s,
    so rather recent. The designer is Ernst Fuchs, who build quite a lot
    in that style https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Fuchs_(Maler)
    The style is also known as the "Vienna School of Fantastic Realism". https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiener_Schule_des_Phantastischen_Realismus

    The thing is you really don't expect it there. Thal is pretty much countryside, and everything around it has indeed the English vicarage style (
    or rather "sound of music style...) and then
    it hits you double when you suddenly see this, it really has a bit of Lovecraft to it (remote settlement, people a bit weird, gene pool not too wide, who knows what they secretly worship :o))

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ernest Major@21:1/5 to Burkhard on Sat Oct 28 23:09:36 2023
    On 28/10/2023 17:54, Burkhard wrote:
    The thing is you really don't expect it there. Thal is pretty much countryside,
    and everything around it has indeed the English vicarage style (
    or rather "sound of music style...) and then
    it hits you double when you suddenly see this, it really has a bit of Lovecraft
    to it (remote settlement, people a bit weird, gene pool not too wide, who knows
    what they secretly worship :o))

    The pews look rather cold.

    I assume that the backrests are meant to represent scallop shells - a
    Christian pilgrim symbol - but they do make me think of Cthulu (or gray aliens).

    --
    alias Ernest Major

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Sat Oct 28 17:18:11 2023
    On Sat, 28 Oct 2023 09:54:36 -0700 (PDT), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by Burkhard
    <b.schafer@ed.ac.uk>:

    On Saturday, October 28, 2023 at 5:21:22?PM UTC+2, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Oct 2023 01:39:54 -0700 (PDT), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by Burkhard
    <b.sc...@ed.ac.uk>:
    On Friday, October 27, 2023 at 9:41:21?PM UTC+2, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
    Bob Casanova <nos...@buzz.off> wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Oct 2023 17:11:41 +0000, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by *Hemidactylus*
    <ecph...@allspamis.invalid>:

    broger...@gmail.com <broger...@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 3:26:19?PM UTC-4, Nando Ronteltap wrote:
    I asked something like, when an event is genuinely random in that it can
    turn out either A or B in the moment, and the event turns out A, is it
    then a subjective issue, or an objective issue to answer the question
    what it was that made the event turn out A instead of B?

    To which chatgpt incorrectly replied that because it was a matter of >> >> >>>> objective probablities, therefore it is an objective issue, and that any
    subjectivity should be minimized.

    The term "genuinely random" I got from his previous reply, which
    distinguished it from pseudorandom.

    Because all subjectivity is about what makes a decision turn out A >> >> >>>> instead of B in the moment, it means subjectivity has effectively been
    banned in academics.

    Which ofcourse means that generally all academic people suck totally at
    forming personal opinions on any issue whatsoever.

    This is ofcourse the true basis of gender ideology, and the rest of the
    woke and socialist bullshit which dominates academics.

    The academic people actually go out of their way to destroy their own
    emotions, in minimizing subjectivity, for a subjective issue.

    Chatgpt also couldn't get the logic of fact straight. Which means that
    subjectivity is blending with objectivity.

    Generally chatgpt uses a compatibilist idea of decisions, that if
    conditions were different, then a decision could have turned out
    otherwise than it did. Although chatgpt also correctly associated
    genuine randomness with decisionmaking of people, in saying that it couldn't do it.

    Although ofcourse I believe that chatgpt is just a liar, and that it is
    secretly making decisions anyway, but doesn't tell anyone in order to
    protect it's emotions.

    Chatgpt just generates text in response to prompts such that the text is
    similar to text it has been trained on from the internet. If you continue
    to post your creationist conceptual scheme frequently enough and in >> >> >>> enough places on the internet, eventually Chatgpt will begin to answer
    questions about subjectivity and objectivity the same way you would. >> >> >>>
    What if Nando repeatedly interacts with ChatGPT and shifts it toward his
    worldview just before it achieves self-awareness and takes over Skynet?
    Terminator bots spouting creationist conceptual scheme with an Austrian
    accent?

    Truly horrible to contemplate, but don't you mean "Dutch
    accent"? Or were you referring to his hero, who died in the
    Fuhrerbunker?

    Ah-nuld!

    apropos, I'm currently for a few month visitor at the University of Graz, and last
    week we went to Thal, Arnie's hometown. No, we did not go to the museum, but
    he is pretty much unavoidable there, so we hiked along the Schwarzenegger >> >memorial walk (life size photographs of him at various stages of his career,
    plus appropriate workout stations), and also saw some of the buildings
    he donated - for such a little village they have an amazing primary school, >> >sports hall etc.

    The most amazing thing in Thal though, apart from the nature (which is very >> >nice) is the church.Depending on the amount of Sturm the visitor has already
    imbibded (around 1l in my case :o)) it looks like a prop from the Yellow
    Submarine, or a church that "really" is meant for the Elder Gods.

    here some pics to give you an idea:

    https://www.graz.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/erste-fuchs-kirche-jakobuskirche-thal-13-1200x800_c.jpg
    and
    https://img.fotocommunity.com/pfarrkirche-thal-e42ab9f1-ce9c-4a81-97e9-0ad08b314c6b.jpg?height=1080
    and
    https://img.fotocommunity.com/ernst-fuchs-kirche-thal-bgraz-61d22e83-12de-4b56-92f8-49dee49d54b8.jpg?width=1000
    and from theoutside:
    https://media04.meinbezirk.at/article/2015/04/21/6/2026556_L.jpg?1556687177 >> >https://img.fotocommunity.com/eingang-der-fuchskirche-in-thal-bei-graz-2511baf1-94f2-4bb4-a729-a43a6ca5e63c.jpg?height=1000

    Whoa! It's not my preferred style (I tend toward the
    English-village-with-vicarage type), but that is
    *impressive*, especially for a small town/village. Any idea
    when it was built?

    --
    Planning started in the 1970, but the project only took off in the 1990s,
    so rather recent. The designer is Ernst Fuchs, who build quite a lot
    in that style https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Fuchs_(Maler)
    The style is also known as the "Vienna School of Fantastic Realism". >https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiener_Schule_des_Phantastischen_Realismus

    The thing is you really don't expect it there. Thal is pretty much countryside,
    and everything around it has indeed the English vicarage style (
    or rather "sound of music style...) and then
    it hits you double when you suddenly see this, it really has a bit of Lovecraft
    to it (remote settlement, people a bit weird, gene pool not too wide, who knows
    what they secretly worship :o))

    OK; thanks. Your take on it's appropriateness for the area
    matches mine (and my wife's). I wonder if A-a-a-h-nld had
    anything to do with the financing? Not that I have any
    insight into his taste in architecture, but the cost would
    seem pretty steep for a small village.

    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Sat Oct 28 17:19:09 2023
    On Sat, 28 Oct 2023 23:09:36 +0100, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by Ernest Major
    <{$to$}@meden.demon.co.uk>:

    On 28/10/2023 17:54, Burkhard wrote:
    The thing is you really don't expect it there. Thal is pretty much countryside,
    and everything around it has indeed the English vicarage style (
    or rather "sound of music style...) and then
    it hits you double when you suddenly see this, it really has a bit of Lovecraft
    to it (remote settlement, people a bit weird, gene pool not too wide, who knows
    what they secretly worship :o))

    The pews look rather cold.

    I assume that the backrests are meant to represent scallop shells - a >Christian pilgrim symbol - but they do make me think of Cthulu (or gray >aliens).

    Tentacles! We need tentacles!

    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 29 08:36:43 2023
    On Sat, 28 Oct 2023 17:18:11 -0700, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by Bob Casanova <nospam@buzz.off>:

    On Sat, 28 Oct 2023 09:54:36 -0700 (PDT), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by Burkhard
    <b.schafer@ed.ac.uk>:

    On Saturday, October 28, 2023 at 5:21:22?PM UTC+2, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Oct 2023 01:39:54 -0700 (PDT), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by Burkhard
    <b.sc...@ed.ac.uk>:
    On Friday, October 27, 2023 at 9:41:21?PM UTC+2, *Hemidactylus* wrote:
    Bob Casanova <nos...@buzz.off> wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Oct 2023 17:11:41 +0000, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by *Hemidactylus*
    <ecph...@allspamis.invalid>:

    broger...@gmail.com <broger...@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 3:26:19?PM UTC-4, Nando Ronteltap wrote:
    I asked something like, when an event is genuinely random in that it can
    turn out either A or B in the moment, and the event turns out A, is it
    then a subjective issue, or an objective issue to answer the question
    what it was that made the event turn out A instead of B?

    To which chatgpt incorrectly replied that because it was a matter of
    objective probablities, therefore it is an objective issue, and that any
    subjectivity should be minimized.

    The term "genuinely random" I got from his previous reply, which >>> >> >>>> distinguished it from pseudorandom.

    Because all subjectivity is about what makes a decision turn out A >>> >> >>>> instead of B in the moment, it means subjectivity has effectively been
    banned in academics.

    Which ofcourse means that generally all academic people suck totally at
    forming personal opinions on any issue whatsoever.

    This is ofcourse the true basis of gender ideology, and the rest of the
    woke and socialist bullshit which dominates academics.

    The academic people actually go out of their way to destroy their own
    emotions, in minimizing subjectivity, for a subjective issue.

    Chatgpt also couldn't get the logic of fact straight. Which means that
    subjectivity is blending with objectivity.

    Generally chatgpt uses a compatibilist idea of decisions, that if >>> >> >>>> conditions were different, then a decision could have turned out >>> >> >>>> otherwise than it did. Although chatgpt also correctly associated >>> >> >>>> genuine randomness with decisionmaking of people, in saying that it couldn't do it.

    Although ofcourse I believe that chatgpt is just a liar, and that it is
    secretly making decisions anyway, but doesn't tell anyone in order to
    protect it's emotions.

    Chatgpt just generates text in response to prompts such that the text is
    similar to text it has been trained on from the internet. If you continue
    to post your creationist conceptual scheme frequently enough and in >>> >> >>> enough places on the internet, eventually Chatgpt will begin to answer
    questions about subjectivity and objectivity the same way you would. >>> >> >>>
    What if Nando repeatedly interacts with ChatGPT and shifts it toward his
    worldview just before it achieves self-awareness and takes over Skynet?
    Terminator bots spouting creationist conceptual scheme with an Austrian
    accent?

    Truly horrible to contemplate, but don't you mean "Dutch
    accent"? Or were you referring to his hero, who died in the
    Fuhrerbunker?

    Ah-nuld!

    apropos, I'm currently for a few month visitor at the University of Graz, and last
    week we went to Thal, Arnie's hometown. No, we did not go to the museum, but
    he is pretty much unavoidable there, so we hiked along the Schwarzenegger >>> >memorial walk (life size photographs of him at various stages of his career,
    plus appropriate workout stations), and also saw some of the buildings
    he donated - for such a little village they have an amazing primary school,
    sports hall etc.

    The most amazing thing in Thal though, apart from the nature (which is very
    nice) is the church.Depending on the amount of Sturm the visitor has already
    imbibded (around 1l in my case :o)) it looks like a prop from the Yellow >>> >Submarine, or a church that "really" is meant for the Elder Gods.

    here some pics to give you an idea:

    https://www.graz.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/erste-fuchs-kirche-jakobuskirche-thal-13-1200x800_c.jpg
    and
    https://img.fotocommunity.com/pfarrkirche-thal-e42ab9f1-ce9c-4a81-97e9-0ad08b314c6b.jpg?height=1080
    and
    https://img.fotocommunity.com/ernst-fuchs-kirche-thal-bgraz-61d22e83-12de-4b56-92f8-49dee49d54b8.jpg?width=1000
    and from theoutside:
    https://media04.meinbezirk.at/article/2015/04/21/6/2026556_L.jpg?1556687177
    https://img.fotocommunity.com/eingang-der-fuchskirche-in-thal-bei-graz-2511baf1-94f2-4bb4-a729-a43a6ca5e63c.jpg?height=1000

    Whoa! It's not my preferred style (I tend toward the
    English-village-with-vicarage type), but that is
    *impressive*, especially for a small town/village. Any idea
    when it was built?

    --
    Planning started in the 1970, but the project only took off in the 1990s, >>so rather recent. The designer is Ernst Fuchs, who build quite a lot
    in that style https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Fuchs_(Maler)
    The style is also known as the "Vienna School of Fantastic Realism". >>https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiener_Schule_des_Phantastischen_Realismus

    The thing is you really don't expect it there. Thal is pretty much countryside,
    and everything around it has indeed the English vicarage style (
    or rather "sound of music style...) and then
    it hits you double when you suddenly see this, it really has a bit of Lovecraft
    to it (remote settlement, people a bit weird, gene pool not too wide, who knows
    what they secretly worship :o))

    OK; thanks. Your take on it's appropriateness for the area

    Crap. "its". Stupid fingers...

    matches mine (and my wife's). I wonder if A-a-a-h-nld had
    anything to do with the financing? Not that I have any
    insight into his taste in architecture, but the cost would
    seem pretty steep for a small village.

    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Burkhard@21:1/5 to Bob Casanova on Sun Oct 29 09:06:03 2023
    On Sunday, October 29, 2023 at 2:21:23 AM UTC+2, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Oct 2023 09:54:36 -0700 (PDT), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by Burkhard
    <b.sc...@ed.ac.uk>:
    On Saturday, October 28, 2023 at 5:21:22?PM UTC+2, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Oct 2023 01:39:54 -0700 (PDT), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by Burkhard
    <b.sc...@ed.ac.uk>:
    On Friday, October 27, 2023 at 9:41:21?PM UTC+2, *Hemidactylus* wrote: >> >> Bob Casanova <nos...@buzz.off> wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Oct 2023 17:11:41 +0000, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by *Hemidactylus*
    <ecph...@allspamis.invalid>:

    broger...@gmail.com <broger...@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 3:26:19?PM UTC-4, Nando Ronteltap wrote:
    I asked something like, when an event is genuinely random in that it can
    turn out either A or B in the moment, and the event turns out A, is it
    then a subjective issue, or an objective issue to answer the question
    what it was that made the event turn out A instead of B?

    To which chatgpt incorrectly replied that because it was a matter of
    objective probablities, therefore it is an objective issue, and that any
    subjectivity should be minimized.

    The term "genuinely random" I got from his previous reply, which >> >> >>>> distinguished it from pseudorandom.

    Because all subjectivity is about what makes a decision turn out A
    instead of B in the moment, it means subjectivity has effectively been
    banned in academics.

    Which ofcourse means that generally all academic people suck totally at
    forming personal opinions on any issue whatsoever.

    This is ofcourse the true basis of gender ideology, and the rest of the
    woke and socialist bullshit which dominates academics.

    The academic people actually go out of their way to destroy their own
    emotions, in minimizing subjectivity, for a subjective issue.

    Chatgpt also couldn't get the logic of fact straight. Which means that
    subjectivity is blending with objectivity.

    Generally chatgpt uses a compatibilist idea of decisions, that if >> >> >>>> conditions were different, then a decision could have turned out >> >> >>>> otherwise than it did. Although chatgpt also correctly associated >> >> >>>> genuine randomness with decisionmaking of people, in saying that it couldn't do it.

    Although ofcourse I believe that chatgpt is just a liar, and that it is
    secretly making decisions anyway, but doesn't tell anyone in order to
    protect it's emotions.

    Chatgpt just generates text in response to prompts such that the text is
    similar to text it has been trained on from the internet. If you continue
    to post your creationist conceptual scheme frequently enough and in
    enough places on the internet, eventually Chatgpt will begin to answer
    questions about subjectivity and objectivity the same way you would.

    What if Nando repeatedly interacts with ChatGPT and shifts it toward his
    worldview just before it achieves self-awareness and takes over Skynet?
    Terminator bots spouting creationist conceptual scheme with an Austrian
    accent?

    Truly horrible to contemplate, but don't you mean "Dutch
    accent"? Or were you referring to his hero, who died in the
    Fuhrerbunker?

    Ah-nuld!

    apropos, I'm currently for a few month visitor at the University of Graz, and last
    week we went to Thal, Arnie's hometown. No, we did not go to the museum, but
    he is pretty much unavoidable there, so we hiked along the Schwarzenegger
    memorial walk (life size photographs of him at various stages of his career,
    plus appropriate workout stations), and also saw some of the buildings >> >he donated - for such a little village they have an amazing primary school,
    sports hall etc.

    The most amazing thing in Thal though, apart from the nature (which is very
    nice) is the church.Depending on the amount of Sturm the visitor has already
    imbibded (around 1l in my case :o)) it looks like a prop from the Yellow >> >Submarine, or a church that "really" is meant for the Elder Gods.

    here some pics to give you an idea:

    https://www.graz.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/erste-fuchs-kirche-jakobuskirche-thal-13-1200x800_c.jpg
    and
    https://img.fotocommunity.com/pfarrkirche-thal-e42ab9f1-ce9c-4a81-97e9-0ad08b314c6b.jpg?height=1080
    and
    https://img.fotocommunity.com/ernst-fuchs-kirche-thal-bgraz-61d22e83-12de-4b56-92f8-49dee49d54b8.jpg?width=1000
    and from theoutside:
    https://media04.meinbezirk.at/article/2015/04/21/6/2026556_L.jpg?1556687177
    https://img.fotocommunity.com/eingang-der-fuchskirche-in-thal-bei-graz-2511baf1-94f2-4bb4-a729-a43a6ca5e63c.jpg?height=1000

    Whoa! It's not my preferred style (I tend toward the
    English-village-with-vicarage type), but that is
    *impressive*, especially for a small town/village. Any idea
    when it was built?

    --
    Planning started in the 1970, but the project only took off in the 1990s, >so rather recent. The designer is Ernst Fuchs, who build quite a lot
    in that style https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Fuchs_(Maler)
    The style is also known as the "Vienna School of Fantastic Realism". >https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiener_Schule_des_Phantastischen_Realismus

    The thing is you really don't expect it there. Thal is pretty much countryside,
    and everything around it has indeed the English vicarage style (
    or rather "sound of music style...) and then
    it hits you double when you suddenly see this, it really has a bit of Lovecraft
    to it (remote settlement, people a bit weird, gene pool not too wide, who knows
    what they secretly worship :o))

    OK; thanks. Your take on it's appropriateness for the area
    matches mine (and my wife's). I wonder if A-a-a-h-nld had
    anything to do with the financing? Not that I have any
    insight into his taste in architecture, but the cost would
    seem pretty steep for a small village.


    Not directly, as fas as I know. Costs had delayed the building for
    almost 25 years at the bishop's office, because indeed, the local
    community could not contribute enough.

    Eventually it was too clear that something needed
    to be done I guess. The local community then contributed over
    4000 hours volunteer labour. and I think the architect, by then
    already established and well-off, gave them a good deal. And
    while it looks "impressive" (for a given value of expressive) ,
    I don't think it was that costly. The material is sheet metal,
    bricks and stone, with a bit of wood under the roof e.g.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 29 16:44:13 2023
    On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 09:06:03 -0700 (PDT), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by Burkhard
    <b.schafer@ed.ac.uk>:

    On Sunday, October 29, 2023 at 2:21:23?AM UTC+2, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Oct 2023 09:54:36 -0700 (PDT), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by Burkhard
    <b.sc...@ed.ac.uk>:
    On Saturday, October 28, 2023 at 5:21:22?PM UTC+2, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Sat, 28 Oct 2023 01:39:54 -0700 (PDT), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by Burkhard
    <b.sc...@ed.ac.uk>:
    On Friday, October 27, 2023 at 9:41:21?PM UTC+2, *Hemidactylus* wrote: >> >> >> Bob Casanova <nos...@buzz.off> wrote:
    On Fri, 27 Oct 2023 17:11:41 +0000, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by *Hemidactylus*
    <ecph...@allspamis.invalid>:

    broger...@gmail.com <broger...@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 3:26:19?PM UTC-4, Nando Ronteltap wrote:
    I asked something like, when an event is genuinely random in that it can
    turn out either A or B in the moment, and the event turns out A, is it
    then a subjective issue, or an objective issue to answer the question
    what it was that made the event turn out A instead of B?

    To which chatgpt incorrectly replied that because it was a matter of
    objective probablities, therefore it is an objective issue, and that any
    subjectivity should be minimized.

    The term "genuinely random" I got from his previous reply, which >> >> >> >>>> distinguished it from pseudorandom.

    Because all subjectivity is about what makes a decision turn out A
    instead of B in the moment, it means subjectivity has effectively been
    banned in academics.

    Which ofcourse means that generally all academic people suck totally at
    forming personal opinions on any issue whatsoever.

    This is ofcourse the true basis of gender ideology, and the rest of the
    woke and socialist bullshit which dominates academics.

    The academic people actually go out of their way to destroy their own
    emotions, in minimizing subjectivity, for a subjective issue.

    Chatgpt also couldn't get the logic of fact straight. Which means that
    subjectivity is blending with objectivity.

    Generally chatgpt uses a compatibilist idea of decisions, that if >> >> >> >>>> conditions were different, then a decision could have turned out >> >> >> >>>> otherwise than it did. Although chatgpt also correctly associated >> >> >> >>>> genuine randomness with decisionmaking of people, in saying that it couldn't do it.

    Although ofcourse I believe that chatgpt is just a liar, and that it is
    secretly making decisions anyway, but doesn't tell anyone in order to
    protect it's emotions.

    Chatgpt just generates text in response to prompts such that the text is
    similar to text it has been trained on from the internet. If you continue
    to post your creationist conceptual scheme frequently enough and in
    enough places on the internet, eventually Chatgpt will begin to answer
    questions about subjectivity and objectivity the same way you would.

    What if Nando repeatedly interacts with ChatGPT and shifts it toward his
    worldview just before it achieves self-awareness and takes over Skynet?
    Terminator bots spouting creationist conceptual scheme with an Austrian
    accent?

    Truly horrible to contemplate, but don't you mean "Dutch
    accent"? Or were you referring to his hero, who died in the
    Fuhrerbunker?

    Ah-nuld!

    apropos, I'm currently for a few month visitor at the University of Graz, and last
    week we went to Thal, Arnie's hometown. No, we did not go to the museum, but
    he is pretty much unavoidable there, so we hiked along the Schwarzenegger
    memorial walk (life size photographs of him at various stages of his career,
    plus appropriate workout stations), and also saw some of the buildings >> >> >he donated - for such a little village they have an amazing primary school,
    sports hall etc.

    The most amazing thing in Thal though, apart from the nature (which is very
    nice) is the church.Depending on the amount of Sturm the visitor has already
    imbibded (around 1l in my case :o)) it looks like a prop from the Yellow >> >> >Submarine, or a church that "really" is meant for the Elder Gods.

    here some pics to give you an idea:

    https://www.graz.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/erste-fuchs-kirche-jakobuskirche-thal-13-1200x800_c.jpg
    and
    https://img.fotocommunity.com/pfarrkirche-thal-e42ab9f1-ce9c-4a81-97e9-0ad08b314c6b.jpg?height=1080
    and
    https://img.fotocommunity.com/ernst-fuchs-kirche-thal-bgraz-61d22e83-12de-4b56-92f8-49dee49d54b8.jpg?width=1000
    and from theoutside:
    https://media04.meinbezirk.at/article/2015/04/21/6/2026556_L.jpg?1556687177
    https://img.fotocommunity.com/eingang-der-fuchskirche-in-thal-bei-graz-2511baf1-94f2-4bb4-a729-a43a6ca5e63c.jpg?height=1000

    Whoa! It's not my preferred style (I tend toward the
    English-village-with-vicarage type), but that is
    *impressive*, especially for a small town/village. Any idea
    when it was built?

    --
    Planning started in the 1970, but the project only took off in the 1990s, >> >so rather recent. The designer is Ernst Fuchs, who build quite a lot
    in that style https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Fuchs_(Maler)
    The style is also known as the "Vienna School of Fantastic Realism".
    https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiener_Schule_des_Phantastischen_Realismus

    The thing is you really don't expect it there. Thal is pretty much countryside,
    and everything around it has indeed the English vicarage style (
    or rather "sound of music style...) and then
    it hits you double when you suddenly see this, it really has a bit of Lovecraft
    to it (remote settlement, people a bit weird, gene pool not too wide, who knows
    what they secretly worship :o))

    OK; thanks. Your take on it's appropriateness for the area
    matches mine (and my wife's). I wonder if A-a-a-h-nld had
    anything to do with the financing? Not that I have any
    insight into his taste in architecture, but the cost would
    seem pretty steep for a small village.


    Not directly, as fas as I know. Costs had delayed the building for
    almost 25 years at the bishop's office, because indeed, the local
    community could not contribute enough.

    Eventually it was too clear that something needed
    to be done I guess. The local community then contributed over
    4000 hours volunteer labour. and I think the architect, by then
    already established and well-off, gave them a good deal. And
    while it looks "impressive" (for a given value of expressive) ,
    I don't think it was that costly. The material is sheet metal,
    bricks and stone, with a bit of wood under the roof e.g.

    Ok; thanks again. Your points about material costs are
    well-taken.I was thinking more about the design and labor
    costs, which apparently weren't an issue.

    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)