Somewhat related to another current topic, the following is a link to
a 1 hour and 15 minute video which provides a reasonably comprehensive
and accurate narrative of the five mass extinctions life on Earth has endured and survived, along with speculation about a likely 6th mass extinction happening right now:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkOPahZM3qI>
My impression there are some inaccurate details. For example, it
makes no mention of the mass extinction resulting from the Great
Oxygenation Event:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxidation_Event>
but its broad strokes are substantially correct.
--
You're entitled to your own opinions.
You're not entitled to your own facts.
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 1:40:28?AM UTC-7, jillery wrote:
Somewhat related to another current topic, the following is a link toAt one time, oxygen would have been described as a poisonous gas, had there been creatures
a 1 hour and 15 minute video which provides a reasonably comprehensive
and accurate narrative of the five mass extinctions life on Earth has
endured and survived, along with speculation about a likely 6th mass
extinction happening right now:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkOPahZM3qI>
My impression there are some inaccurate details. For example, it
makes no mention of the mass extinction resulting from the Great
Oxygenation Event:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxidation_Event>
but its broad strokes are substantially correct.
capable of descriptions. But oxygen is painless, It brought us many changes.
See the Wiki entry on the Francevillian biota, an enigmatic and short-lived phenomenon that
may have been eukaryotic or even multi-cellular. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francevillian_biota
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 1:40:28 AM UTC-7, jillery wrote:
Somewhat related to another current topic, the following is a link to>
a 1 hour and 15 minute video which provides a reasonably comprehensive>
and accurate narrative of the five mass extinctions life on Earth has>
endured and survived, along with speculation about a likely 6th mass>
extinction happening right now:>>
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkOPahZM3qI>>> My impression there are
some inaccurate details. For example, it> makes no mention of the mass
extinction resulting from the Great> Oxygenation Event:>>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxidation_Event>>> but its broad
strokes are substantially correct.>> --> You're entitled to your own
opinions.> You're not entitled to your own facts.
At one time, oxygen would have been described as a poisonous gas,
had there been creatures
capable of descriptions. But oxygen is painless,
It brought us many changes.
See the Wiki entry on the Francevillian biota, an enigmatic and
short-lived phenomenon that
may have been eukaryotic or even multi-cellular. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francevillian_biota
On 2023-03-15 15:31:42 +0000, erik simpson said:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 1:40:28 AM UTC-7, jillery wrote:
Somewhat related to another current topic, the following is a link to>
a 1 hour and 15 minute video which provides a reasonably comprehensive> >> and accurate narrative of the five mass extinctions life on Earth has>
endured and survived, along with speculation about a likely 6th mass>
extinction happening right now:>>
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkOPahZM3qI>>> My impression there are >> some inaccurate details. For example, it> makes no mention of the mass
extinction resulting from the Great> Oxygenation Event:>>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxidation_Event>>> but its broad
strokes are substantially correct.>> --> You're entitled to your own
opinions.> You're not entitled to your own facts.
At one time, oxygen would have been described as a poisonous gas,It still is, for compulsory anaerobes.
had there been creaturesNot if you're a Clostridium it isn't. Actually the metabolism of
capable of descriptions. But oxygen is painless,
organisms like ourselves goes to great lengths to avoid oxygen
toxicity. Look up the Wikiparticle on "Oxygen toxicity."
It brought us many changes.
See the Wiki entry on the Francevillian biota, an enigmatic and short-lived phenomenon that--
may have been eukaryotic or even multi-cellular. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francevillian_biota
athel cb : Biochemical Evolution, Garland Science, 2016
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 08:31:42 -0700 (PDT), the following
appeared in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson
<eastside.erik@gmail.com>:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 1:40:28?AM UTC-7, jillery wrote:Ah, another MASH fan... :-)
Somewhat related to another current topic, the following is a link toAt one time, oxygen would have been described as a poisonous gas, had there been creatures
a 1 hour and 15 minute video which provides a reasonably comprehensive
and accurate narrative of the five mass extinctions life on Earth has
endured and survived, along with speculation about a likely 6th mass
extinction happening right now:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkOPahZM3qI>
My impression there are some inaccurate details. For example, it
makes no mention of the mass extinction resulting from the Great
Oxygenation Event:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxidation_Event>
but its broad strokes are substantially correct.
capable of descriptions. But oxygen is painless, It brought us many changes.
Interesting; thanks. That's the first time I'd heard of
See the Wiki entry on the Francevillian biota, an enigmatic and short-lived phenomenon that
may have been eukaryotic or even multi-cellular. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francevillian_biota
these, and I'd think that at 12cm diameter it probably *was*
multicellular, assuming that they were structured in a
similar fashion to what we know. The most interesting point
to me is that they are proposed as early (2.1 Bya) aerobic
biota, and died out when the oxygen level dropped. I assume
that the oxygen level increase and decrease were the result
of purely non-biological processes or it would have
continued, since the later one, which *did* continue, was
(IIRC) biological.
So I assume this would qualify as another "Great Extinction"
if such weren't, as jillery notes, apparently restricted to
"our sort of life".
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 6:30:29?PM UTC, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
On 2023-03-15 15:31:42 +0000, erik simpson said:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 1:40:28?AM UTC-7, jillery wrote:It still is, for compulsory anaerobes.
Somewhat related to another current topic, the following is a link to>
a 1 hour and 15 minute video which provides a reasonably comprehensive> >> >> and accurate narrative of the five mass extinctions life on Earth has>
endured and survived, along with speculation about a likely 6th mass>
extinction happening right now:>>
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkOPahZM3qI>>> My impression there are >> >> some inaccurate details. For example, it> makes no mention of the mass
extinction resulting from the Great> Oxygenation Event:>>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxidation_Event>>> but its broad
strokes are substantially correct.>> --> You're entitled to your own
opinions.> You're not entitled to your own facts.
At one time, oxygen would have been described as a poisonous gas,
had there been creaturesNot if you're a Clostridium it isn't. Actually the metabolism of
capable of descriptions. But oxygen is painless,
organisms like ourselves goes to great lengths to avoid oxygen
toxicity. Look up the Wikiparticle on "Oxygen toxicity."
I "think" it's a reference to a song in MASH:
Through early morning fog I see
Visions of the things to be
The pains that are withheld for me
I realize and I can see
That suicide is painless
It brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it
If I pleas
--It brought us many changes.--
See the Wiki entry on the Francevillian biota, an enigmatic and
short-lived phenomenon that
may have been eukaryotic or even multi-cellular.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francevillian_biota
athel cb : Biochemical Evolution, Garland Science, 2016
On 15/03/2023 16:27, Bob Casanova wrote:
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 08:31:42 -0700 (PDT), the following
appeared in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson
<eastside.erik@gmail.com>:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 1:40:28?AM UTC-7, jillery wrote:Ah, another MASH fan... :-)
Somewhat related to another current topic, the following is a link toAt one time, oxygen would have been described as a poisonous gas, had there been creatures
a 1 hour and 15 minute video which provides a reasonably comprehensive >>>> and accurate narrative of the five mass extinctions life on Earth has
endured and survived, along with speculation about a likely 6th mass
extinction happening right now:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkOPahZM3qI>
My impression there are some inaccurate details. For example, it
makes no mention of the mass extinction resulting from the Great
Oxygenation Event:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxidation_Event>
but its broad strokes are substantially correct.
capable of descriptions. But oxygen is painless, It brought us many changes.
Interesting; thanks. That's the first time I'd heard of
See the Wiki entry on the Francevillian biota, an enigmatic and short-lived phenomenon that
may have been eukaryotic or even multi-cellular. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francevillian_biota
these, and I'd think that at 12cm diameter it probably *was*
multicellular, assuming that they were structured in a
similar fashion to what we know. The most interesting point
to me is that they are proposed as early (2.1 Bya) aerobic
biota, and died out when the oxygen level dropped. I assume
that the oxygen level increase and decrease were the result
of purely non-biological processes or it would have
continued, since the later one, which *did* continue, was
(IIRC) biological.
Modern day xenophyophores, which are unicellular, but multinucleate, are >comparable in size. Caulerpa can be appreciably bigger.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenophyophorea >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caulerpa
Apart from coencytic organisms such as the above, there is also theYes, that was noted in the Wiki article, and I should have
possible alternative that they are colonial in nature.
--So I assume this would qualify as another "Great Extinction"
if such weren't, as jillery notes, apparently restricted to
"our sort of life".
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 08:31:42 -0700 (PDT), the followingJust so. The Francevillian biota is an oddity that has no obvious connection to the
appeared in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson
<eastsi...@gmail.com>:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 1:40:28?AM UTC-7, jillery wrote:
Somewhat related to another current topic, the following is a link toAt one time, oxygen would have been described as a poisonous gas, had there been creatures
a 1 hour and 15 minute video which provides a reasonably comprehensive
and accurate narrative of the five mass extinctions life on Earth has
endured and survived, along with speculation about a likely 6th mass
extinction happening right now:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkOPahZM3qI>
My impression there are some inaccurate details. For example, it
makes no mention of the mass extinction resulting from the Great
Oxygenation Event:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxidation_Event>
but its broad strokes are substantially correct.
capable of descriptions. But oxygen is painless, It brought us many changes.
Ah, another MASH fan... :-)
See the Wiki entry on the Francevillian biota, an enigmatic and short-lived phenomenon that
may have been eukaryotic or even multi-cellular. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francevillian_biota
Interesting; thanks. That's the first time I'd heard of
these, and I'd think that at 12cm diameter it probably *was*
multicellular, assuming that they were structured in a
similar fashion to what we know. The most interesting point
to me is that they are proposed as early (2.1 Bya) aerobic
biota, and died out when the oxygen level dropped. I assume
that the oxygen level increase and decrease were the result
of purely non-biological processes or it would have
continued, since the later one, which *did* continue, was
(IIRC) biological.
So I assume this would qualify as another "Great Extinction"
if such weren't, as jillery notes, apparently restricted to
"our sort of life".
--
Bob C.
"The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"
- Isaac Asimov
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 9:30:28?AM UTC-7, Bob Casanova wrote:
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 08:31:42 -0700 (PDT), the followingeukaryotic and multi-cellular life that came later. Note that ir precedes the "boring billion" (~1.8 - 0.8 GYA)
appeared in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson
<eastsi...@gmail.com>:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 1:40:28?AM UTC-7, jillery wrote:Ah, another MASH fan... :-)
Somewhat related to another current topic, the following is a link toAt one time, oxygen would have been described as a poisonous gas, had there been creatures
a 1 hour and 15 minute video which provides a reasonably comprehensive
and accurate narrative of the five mass extinctions life on Earth has
endured and survived, along with speculation about a likely 6th mass
extinction happening right now:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkOPahZM3qI>
My impression there are some inaccurate details. For example, it
makes no mention of the mass extinction resulting from the Great
Oxygenation Event:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxidation_Event>
but its broad strokes are substantially correct.
capable of descriptions. But oxygen is painless, It brought us many changes.
Interesting; thanks. That's the first time I'd heard of
See the Wiki entry on the Francevillian biota, an enigmatic and short-lived phenomenon that
may have been eukaryotic or even multi-cellular. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francevillian_biota
these, and I'd think that at 12cm diameter it probably *was*
multicellular, assuming that they were structured in a
similar fashion to what we know. The most interesting point
to me is that they are proposed as early (2.1 Bya) aerobic
biota, and died out when the oxygen level dropped. I assume
that the oxygen level increase and decrease were the result
of purely non-biological processes or it would have
continued, since the later one, which *did* continue, was
(IIRC) biological.
So I assume this would qualify as another "Great Extinction"
if such weren't, as jillery notes, apparently restricted to
"our sort of life".
Just so. The Francevillian biota is an oddity that has no obvious connection to the
where nothing much is preserved to see inthe fossil record.
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 08:31:42 -0700 (PDT), the following
appeared in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson
<eastside.erik@gmail.com>:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 1:40:28?AM UTC-7, jillery wrote:Interesting; thanks. That's the first time I'd heard of
Somewhat related to another current topic, the following is a link toAt one time, oxygen would have been described as a poisonous gas, had there been creatures
a 1 hour and 15 minute video which provides a reasonably comprehensive
and accurate narrative of the five mass extinctions life on Earth has
endured and survived, along with speculation about a likely 6th mass
extinction happening right now:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkOPahZM3qI>
My impression there are some inaccurate details. For example, it
makes no mention of the mass extinction resulting from the Great
Oxygenation Event:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxidation_Event>
but its broad strokes are substantially correct.
capable of descriptions. But oxygen is painless, It brought us many changes. >Ah, another MASH fan... :-)
See the Wiki entry on the Francevillian biota, an enigmatic and short-lived phenomenon that
may have been eukaryotic or even multi-cellular. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francevillian_biota
these, and I'd think that at 12cm diameter it probably *was*
multicellular, assuming that they were structured in a
similar fashion to what we know. The most interesting point
to me is that they are proposed as early (2.1 Bya) aerobic
biota, and died out when the oxygen level dropped. I assume
that the oxygen level increase and decrease were the result
of purely non-biological processes or it would have
continued, since the later one, which *did* continue, was
(IIRC) biological.
So I assume this would qualify as another "Great Extinction"
if such weren't, as jillery notes, apparently restricted to
"our sort of life".
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 1:40:28?AM UTC-7, jillery wrote:
Somewhat related to another current topic, the following is a link toAt one time, oxygen would have been described as a poisonous gas, had there been creatures
a 1 hour and 15 minute video which provides a reasonably comprehensive
and accurate narrative of the five mass extinctions life on Earth has
endured and survived, along with speculation about a likely 6th mass
extinction happening right now:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkOPahZM3qI>
My impression there are some inaccurate details. For example, it
makes no mention of the mass extinction resulting from the Great
Oxygenation Event:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxidation_Event>
but its broad strokes are substantially correct.
capable of descriptions. But oxygen is painless, It brought us many changes.
See the Wiki entry on the Francevillian biota, an enigmatic and short-lived phenomenon that
may have been eukaryotic or even multi-cellular. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francevillian_biota
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 09:27:58 -0700, Bob Casanova <nospam@buzz.off>
wrote:
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 08:31:42 -0700 (PDT), the following
appeared in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson
<eastside.erik@gmail.com>:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 1:40:28?AM UTC-7, jillery wrote:Ah, another MASH fan... :-)
Somewhat related to another current topic, the following is a link toAt one time, oxygen would have been described as a poisonous gas, had there been creatures
a 1 hour and 15 minute video which provides a reasonably comprehensive >>>> and accurate narrative of the five mass extinctions life on Earth has
endured and survived, along with speculation about a likely 6th mass
extinction happening right now:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkOPahZM3qI>
My impression there are some inaccurate details. For example, it
makes no mention of the mass extinction resulting from the Great
Oxygenation Event:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxidation_Event>
but its broad strokes are substantially correct.
capable of descriptions. But oxygen is painless, It brought us many changes.
Interesting; thanks. That's the first time I'd heard of
See the Wiki entry on the Francevillian biota, an enigmatic and short-lived phenomenon that
may have been eukaryotic or even multi-cellular. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francevillian_biota
these, and I'd think that at 12cm diameter it probably *was*
multicellular, assuming that they were structured in a
similar fashion to what we know. The most interesting point
to me is that they are proposed as early (2.1 Bya) aerobic
biota, and died out when the oxygen level dropped. I assume
that the oxygen level increase and decrease were the result
of purely non-biological processes or it would have
continued, since the later one, which *did* continue, was
(IIRC) biological.
So I assume this would qualify as another "Great Extinction"
if such weren't, as jillery notes, apparently restricted to
"our sort of life".
jillery noted no such thing. All life on Earth is "our sort of life",
in the sense that all follow a substantially similar nuclear code,
with the arguable exception of viruses being alive. If the Biblical
"in God's image" has any objective meaning, it would be that.
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 22:43:06 -0400, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by jillery <69jpil69@gmail.com>:
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 09:27:58 -0700, Bob Casanova <nospam@buzz.off>I was referring to your comment above, "it makes no mention
wrote:
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 08:31:42 -0700 (PDT), the following
appeared in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson >>><eastside.erik@gmail.com>:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 1:40:28?AM UTC-7, jillery wrote:Ah, another MASH fan... :-)
Somewhat related to another current topic, the following is a link to >>>>> a 1 hour and 15 minute video which provides a reasonably comprehensive >>>>> and accurate narrative of the five mass extinctions life on Earth has >>>>> endured and survived, along with speculation about a likely 6th mass >>>>> extinction happening right now:At one time, oxygen would have been described as a poisonous gas, had there been creatures
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkOPahZM3qI>
My impression there are some inaccurate details. For example, it
makes no mention of the mass extinction resulting from the Great
Oxygenation Event:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxidation_Event>
but its broad strokes are substantially correct.
capable of descriptions. But oxygen is painless, It brought us many changes.
Interesting; thanks. That's the first time I'd heard of
See the Wiki entry on the Francevillian biota, an enigmatic and short-lived phenomenon that
may have been eukaryotic or even multi-cellular. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francevillian_biota
these, and I'd think that at 12cm diameter it probably *was* >>>multicellular, assuming that they were structured in a
similar fashion to what we know. The most interesting point
to me is that they are proposed as early (2.1 Bya) aerobic
biota, and died out when the oxygen level dropped. I assume
that the oxygen level increase and decrease were the result
of purely non-biological processes or it would have
continued, since the later one, which *did* continue, was
(IIRC) biological.
So I assume this would qualify as another "Great Extinction"
if such weren't, as jillery notes, apparently restricted to
"our sort of life".
jillery noted no such thing. All life on Earth is "our sort of life",
in the sense that all follow a substantially similar nuclear code,
with the arguable exception of viruses being alive. If the Biblical
"in God's image" has any objective meaning, it would be that.
of the mass extinction" [of anaerobic life] "resulting from
the Great Oxygenation Event". If you didn't intend this to
imply that only current aerobic life ("our sort of life") is
included in listed mass extinctions my apologies.
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 22:37:40 -0700, Bob Casanova <nospam@buzz.off>
wrote:
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 22:43:06 -0400, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by jillery <69jpil69@gmail.com>:
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 09:27:58 -0700, Bob Casanova <nospam@buzz.off>I was referring to your comment above, "it makes no mention
wrote:
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 08:31:42 -0700 (PDT), the following
appeared in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson >>>><eastside.erik@gmail.com>:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 1:40:28?AM UTC-7, jillery wrote:Ah, another MASH fan... :-)
Somewhat related to another current topic, the following is a link to >>>>>> a 1 hour and 15 minute video which provides a reasonably comprehensive >>>>>> and accurate narrative of the five mass extinctions life on Earth has >>>>>> endured and survived, along with speculation about a likely 6th mass >>>>>> extinction happening right now:At one time, oxygen would have been described as a poisonous gas, had there been creatures
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkOPahZM3qI>
My impression there are some inaccurate details. For example, it
makes no mention of the mass extinction resulting from the Great
Oxygenation Event:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxidation_Event>
but its broad strokes are substantially correct.
capable of descriptions. But oxygen is painless, It brought us many changes.
Interesting; thanks. That's the first time I'd heard of
See the Wiki entry on the Francevillian biota, an enigmatic and short-lived phenomenon that
may have been eukaryotic or even multi-cellular. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francevillian_biota
these, and I'd think that at 12cm diameter it probably *was* >>>>multicellular, assuming that they were structured in a
similar fashion to what we know. The most interesting point
to me is that they are proposed as early (2.1 Bya) aerobic
biota, and died out when the oxygen level dropped. I assume
that the oxygen level increase and decrease were the result
of purely non-biological processes or it would have
continued, since the later one, which *did* continue, was
(IIRC) biological.
So I assume this would qualify as another "Great Extinction"
if such weren't, as jillery notes, apparently restricted to
"our sort of life".
jillery noted no such thing. All life on Earth is "our sort of life",
in the sense that all follow a substantially similar nuclear code,
with the arguable exception of viruses being alive. If the Biblical
"in God's image" has any objective meaning, it would be that.
of the mass extinction" [of anaerobic life] "resulting from
the Great Oxygenation Event". If you didn't intend this to
imply that only current aerobic life ("our sort of life") is
included in listed mass extinctions my apologies.
My intent to what you quoted is to show I noted some missing bits in
the narrative, as I noted in the OP, as shown in the quoted text
above. Not sure how you get from that to "our sort of life".
Instead of poorly paraphrasing my comments, how 'bout just letting
what I actually post speak for me? And please don't gaslight me by
claiming this as another "short fuse" thing.
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 08:31:42 -0700 (PDT), erik simpson
<eastsi...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 1:40:28?AM UTC-7, jillery wrote:
Somewhat related to another current topic, the following is a link toAt one time, oxygen would have been described as a poisonous gas, had there been creatures
a 1 hour and 15 minute video which provides a reasonably comprehensive
and accurate narrative of the five mass extinctions life on Earth has
endured and survived, along with speculation about a likely 6th mass
extinction happening right now:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkOPahZM3qI>
My impression there are some inaccurate details. For example, it
makes no mention of the mass extinction resulting from the Great
Oxygenation Event:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxidation_Event>
but its broad strokes are substantially correct.
capable of descriptions. But oxygen is painless, It brought us many changes.
See the Wiki entry on the Francevillian biota, an enigmatic and short-lived phenomenon that
may have been eukaryotic or even multi-cellular. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francevillian_biota
Molecular oxygen is a highly energetic free radical and oxidizes
almost all biochemicals, and in that sense is poisonous to all life.
Aerobic life builds many hoops to manage oxygen and capture its
greater chemical potential. Even so, there are conditions where
oxygen breaks those hoops and kills even aerobes:
<https://myhealth.ucsd.edu/RelatedItems/3,90904>
Anybody who has suffered hydrogen peroxide burns is intimately
familiar with that fact.
--
You're entitled to your own opinions.
You're not entitled to your own facts.
On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 03:31:03 -0400, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by jillery <69jpil69@gmail.com>:
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 22:37:40 -0700, Bob Casanova <nospam@buzz.off>Sorry I bothered to explain, and sorry I apologized.
wrote:
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 22:43:06 -0400, the following appeared
in talk.origins, posted by jillery <69jpil69@gmail.com>:
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 09:27:58 -0700, Bob Casanova <nospam@buzz.off> >>>>wrote:I was referring to your comment above, "it makes no mention
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 08:31:42 -0700 (PDT), the following
appeared in talk.origins, posted by erik simpson >>>>><eastside.erik@gmail.com>:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 1:40:28?AM UTC-7, jillery wrote:Ah, another MASH fan... :-)
Somewhat related to another current topic, the following is a link to >>>>>>> a 1 hour and 15 minute video which provides a reasonably comprehensive >>>>>>> and accurate narrative of the five mass extinctions life on Earth has >>>>>>> endured and survived, along with speculation about a likely 6th mass >>>>>>> extinction happening right now:At one time, oxygen would have been described as a poisonous gas, had there been creatures
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkOPahZM3qI>
My impression there are some inaccurate details. For example, it >>>>>>> makes no mention of the mass extinction resulting from the Great >>>>>>> Oxygenation Event:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxidation_Event>
but its broad strokes are substantially correct.
capable of descriptions. But oxygen is painless, It brought us many changes.
Interesting; thanks. That's the first time I'd heard of
See the Wiki entry on the Francevillian biota, an enigmatic and short-lived phenomenon that
may have been eukaryotic or even multi-cellular. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francevillian_biota
these, and I'd think that at 12cm diameter it probably *was* >>>>>multicellular, assuming that they were structured in a
similar fashion to what we know. The most interesting point
to me is that they are proposed as early (2.1 Bya) aerobic
biota, and died out when the oxygen level dropped. I assume
that the oxygen level increase and decrease were the result
of purely non-biological processes or it would have
continued, since the later one, which *did* continue, was
(IIRC) biological.
So I assume this would qualify as another "Great Extinction"
if such weren't, as jillery notes, apparently restricted to
"our sort of life".
jillery noted no such thing. All life on Earth is "our sort of life", >>>>in the sense that all follow a substantially similar nuclear code,
with the arguable exception of viruses being alive. If the Biblical >>>>"in God's image" has any objective meaning, it would be that.
of the mass extinction" [of anaerobic life] "resulting from
the Great Oxygenation Event". If you didn't intend this to
imply that only current aerobic life ("our sort of life") is
included in listed mass extinctions my apologies.
My intent to what you quoted is to show I noted some missing bits in
the narrative, as I noted in the OP, as shown in the quoted text
above. Not sure how you get from that to "our sort of life".
Instead of poorly paraphrasing my comments, how 'bout just letting
what I actually post speak for me? And please don't gaslight me by >>claiming this as another "short fuse" thing.
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 10:45:28?PM UTC-4, jillery wrote:
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 08:31:42 -0700 (PDT), erik simpson
<eastsi...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 1:40:28?AM UTC-7, jillery wrote:
Somewhat related to another current topic, the following is a link toAt one time, oxygen would have been described as a poisonous gas, had there been creatures
a 1 hour and 15 minute video which provides a reasonably comprehensive >> >> and accurate narrative of the five mass extinctions life on Earth has
endured and survived, along with speculation about a likely 6th mass
extinction happening right now:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkOPahZM3qI>
My impression there are some inaccurate details. For example, it
makes no mention of the mass extinction resulting from the Great
Oxygenation Event:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxidation_Event>
but its broad strokes are substantially correct.
capable of descriptions. But oxygen is painless, It brought us many changes.
See the Wiki entry on the Francevillian biota, an enigmatic and short-lived phenomenon that
may have been eukaryotic or even multi-cellular. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francevillian_biota
Molecular oxygen is a highly energetic free radical and oxidizes
almost all biochemicals, and in that sense is poisonous to all life.
Aerobic life builds many hoops to manage oxygen and capture its
greater chemical potential. Even so, there are conditions where
oxygen breaks those hoops and kills even aerobes:
<https://myhealth.ucsd.edu/RelatedItems/3,90904>
Anybody who has suffered hydrogen peroxide burns is intimately
familiar with that fact.
Presumably you meant to write atomic oxygen and not molecular
oxygen as molecular oxygen is not a free radical.
Atomic oxygen is.
There are additional nits to pick but at the broadest level the thrust
is correct. Biochemically, oxygen is a dangerous partner. It does,
however, provide pathways for much more efficient extraction of
chemical energy, and for that matter more efficient pathways to
store chemical energy.
I confess to discomfort at your terminology of "hoops" as I can't
seem to map the implied metaphor to the antioxidation pathways
I'm most familiar with.
I would rather say that the dangers of
spontaneous oxidation of biomolecules increases with oxygen
concentration and spontaneous oxidation is indeed dangerous.
To guard against spontaneous oxidation that are multiple pathways
that have evolved to keep cells/organisms supplied with molecules
that act to be sacrificial acceptors of over-reactive species, and
pathways to reverse some of the damage that nevertheless occurs.
Such pathways can be, and are at time, overwhelmed by higher
than typical oxygen concentrations, or higher than typical concentrations
of other species with high oxidation potential.
And as a note of relevance to the Panda's Thumb, if you drink booze,
try to keep up your supply of glutathione and don't take acetaminophen
(watch out for meds that include it).
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 10:45:28 PM UTC-4, jillery wrote:
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 08:31:42 -0700 (PDT), erik simpson>
<eastsi...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 1:40:28?AM UTC-7, jillery wrote:> >>
Somewhat related to another current topic, the following is a link to>
comprehensive> >> and accurate narrative of the five mass extinctionsa 1 hour and 15 minute video which provides a reasonably
life on Earth has> >> endured and survived, along with speculation
about a likely 6th mass> >> extinction happening right now:> >>> >>
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkOPahZM3qI>> >>> >> My impression
there are some inaccurate details. For example, it> >> makes no mention
of the mass extinction resulting from the Great> >> Oxygenation Event:>
but its broad strokes are substantially correct.> >><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxidation_Event>> >>> >>
At one time, oxygen would have been described as a poisonous gas, had
there been creatures> >capable of descriptions. But oxygen is painless,
It brought us many changes.> >> >See the Wiki entry on the
Francevillian biota, an enigmatic and short-lived phenomenon that> >may
have been eukaryotic or even multi-cellular.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francevillian_biota
Molecular oxygen is a highly energetic free radical and oxidizes>
almost all biochemicals, and in that sense is poisonous to all life.>
Aerobic life builds many hoops to manage oxygen and capture its>
greater chemical potential. Even so, there are conditions where> oxygen
breaks those hoops and kills even aerobes:>>
<https://myhealth.ucsd.edu/RelatedItems/3,90904>>> Anybody who has
suffered hydrogen peroxide burns is intimately> familiar with that fact.
--
You're entitled to your own opinions.> You're not entitled to your own facts.
Presumably you meant to write atomic oxygen and not molecular
oxygen as molecular oxygen is not a free radical.
Atomic oxygen is.
There are additional nits to pick but at the broadest level the thrust
is correct. Biochemically, oxygen is a dangerous partner. It does,
however, provide pathways for much more efficient extraction of
chemical energy, and for that matter more efficient pathways tostore
chemical energy.
I confess to discomfort at your terminology of "hoops" as I can'tseem
to map the implied metaphor to the antioxidation pathwaysI'm most
familiar with. I would rather say that the dangers ofspontaneous
oxidation of biomolecules increases with oxygen
concentration and spontaneous oxidation is indeed dangerous.
To guard against spontaneous oxidation that are multiple pathways
that have evolved to keep cells/organisms supplied with molecules
that act to be sacrificial acceptors of over-reactive species, and
pathways to reverse some of the damage that nevertheless occurs.
Such pathways can be, and are at time, overwhelmed by higher
than typical oxygen concentrations, or higher than typical concentrations
of other species with high oxidation potential.
And as a note of relevance to the Panda's Thumb, if you drink booze,
try to keep up your supply of glutathione and don't take acetaminophen
(watch out for meds that include it).
On 2023-03-16 23:42:25 +0000, Lawyer Daggett said:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 10:45:28 PM UTC-4, jillery wrote:
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 08:31:42 -0700 (PDT), erik simpson>
<eastsi...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 1:40:28?AM UTC-7, jillery wrote:> >>
Somewhat related to another current topic, the following is a link to> >>> >> a 1 hour and 15 minute video which provides a reasonably
comprehensive> >> and accurate narrative of the five mass extinctions >>> life on Earth has> >> endured and survived, along with speculation
about a likely 6th mass> >> extinction happening right now:> >>> >>
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkOPahZM3qI>> >>> >> My impression
there are some inaccurate details. For example, it> >> makes no mention >>> of the mass extinction resulting from the Great> >> Oxygenation Event:> >>> >>> >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxidation_Event>> >>> >>
but its broad strokes are substantially correct.> >>
At one time, oxygen would have been described as a poisonous gas, had >>> there been creatures> >capable of descriptions. But oxygen is painless, >>> It brought us many changes.> >> >See the Wiki entry on the
Francevillian biota, an enigmatic and short-lived phenomenon that> >may >>> have been eukaryotic or even multi-cellular.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francevillian_biota
Molecular oxygen is a highly energetic free radical and oxidizes>
almost all biochemicals, and in that sense is poisonous to all life.>
Aerobic life builds many hoops to manage oxygen and capture its>
greater chemical potential. Even so, there are conditions where> oxygen >> breaks those hoops and kills even aerobes:>>
<https://myhealth.ucsd.edu/RelatedItems/3,90904>>> Anybody who has
suffered hydrogen peroxide burns is intimately> familiar with that fact. >> --
You're entitled to your own opinions.> You're not entitled to your own facts.
Presumably you meant to write atomic oxygen and not molecular
oxygen as molecular oxygen is not a free radical.
No. Molecular oxygen is a diradical. Two unpaired electrons. Naively
one might assume it to be O=O, but actually it has a triplet structure
and is is .O-O.
Atomic oxygen is.--
There are additional nits to pick but at the broadest level the thrust
is correct. Biochemically, oxygen is a dangerous partner. It does, however, provide pathways for much more efficient extraction of
chemical energy, and for that matter more efficient pathways tostore chemical energy.
I confess to discomfort at your terminology of "hoops" as I can'tseem
to map the implied metaphor to the antioxidation pathwaysI'm most
familiar with. I would rather say that the dangers ofspontaneous
oxidation of biomolecules increases with oxygen
concentration and spontaneous oxidation is indeed dangerous.
To guard against spontaneous oxidation that are multiple pathways
that have evolved to keep cells/organisms supplied with molecules
that act to be sacrificial acceptors of over-reactive species, and pathways to reverse some of the damage that nevertheless occurs.
Such pathways can be, and are at time, overwhelmed by higher
than typical oxygen concentrations, or higher than typical concentrations of other species with high oxidation potential.
And as a note of relevance to the Panda's Thumb, if you drink booze,
try to keep up your supply of glutathione and don't take acetaminophen (watch out for meds that include it).
athel cb : Biochemical Evolution, Garland Science, 2016
On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 16:42:25 -0700 (PDT), Lawyer Daggett <j.nobel...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 10:45:28?PM UTC-4, jillery wrote:
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 08:31:42 -0700 (PDT), erik simpson
<eastsi...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 1:40:28?AM UTC-7, jillery wrote:
Somewhat related to another current topic, the following is a link to >> >> a 1 hour and 15 minute video which provides a reasonably comprehensive >> >> and accurate narrative of the five mass extinctions life on Earth has >> >> endured and survived, along with speculation about a likely 6th mass >> >> extinction happening right now:At one time, oxygen would have been described as a poisonous gas, had there been creatures
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkOPahZM3qI>
My impression there are some inaccurate details. For example, it
makes no mention of the mass extinction resulting from the Great
Oxygenation Event:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxidation_Event>
but its broad strokes are substantially correct.
capable of descriptions. But oxygen is painless, It brought us many changes.
See the Wiki entry on the Francevillian biota, an enigmatic and short-lived phenomenon that
may have been eukaryotic or even multi-cellular. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francevillian_biota
Molecular oxygen is a highly energetic free radical and oxidizes
almost all biochemicals, and in that sense is poisonous to all life.
Aerobic life builds many hoops to manage oxygen and capture its
greater chemical potential. Even so, there are conditions where
oxygen breaks those hoops and kills even aerobes:
<https://myhealth.ucsd.edu/RelatedItems/3,90904>
Anybody who has suffered hydrogen peroxide burns is intimately
familiar with that fact.
Presumably you meant to write atomic oxygen and not molecular
oxygen as molecular oxygen is not a free radical.
Correct.
Atomic oxygen is.
There are additional nits to pick but at the broadest level the thrust
is correct. Biochemically, oxygen is a dangerous partner. It does, >however, provide pathways for much more efficient extraction of
chemical energy, and for that matter more efficient pathways to
store chemical energy.
I confess to discomfort at your terminology of "hoops" as I can't
seem to map the implied metaphor to the antioxidation pathways
I'm most familiar with.
I note you don't identify the "implication" you inferred.
I would rather say that the dangers of
spontaneous oxidation of biomolecules increases with oxygen
concentration and spontaneous oxidation is indeed dangerous.
To guard against spontaneous oxidation that are multiple pathways
that have evolved to keep cells/organisms supplied with molecules
that act to be sacrificial acceptors of over-reactive species, and >pathways to reverse some of the damage that nevertheless occurs.
Such pathways can be, and are at time, overwhelmed by higher
than typical oxygen concentrations, or higher than typical concentrations >of other species with high oxidation potential.
And as a note of relevance to the Panda's Thumb, if you drink booze,--
try to keep up your supply of glutathione and don't take acetaminophen >(watch out for meds that include it).
You're entitled to your own opinions.
You're not entitled to your own facts.
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 6:30:29 PM UTC, Athel Cornish-Bowden wrote:
On 2023-03-15 15:31:42 +0000, erik simpson said:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 1:40:28 AM UTC-7, jillery wrote:
Somewhat related to another current topic, the following is a link to> >> a 1 hour and 15 minute video which provides a reasonably comprehensive> >> and accurate narrative of the five mass extinctions life on Earth has> >> endured and survived, along with speculation about a likely 6th mass> >> extinction happening right now:>>
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkOPahZM3qI>>> My impression there are >> some inaccurate details. For example, it> makes no mention of the mass >> extinction resulting from the Great> Oxygenation Event:>>
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxidation_Event>>> but its broad >> strokes are substantially correct.>> --> You're entitled to your own
opinions.> You're not entitled to your own facts.
At one time, oxygen would have been described as a poisonous gas,It still is, for compulsory anaerobes.
had there been creaturesNot if you're a Clostridium it isn't. Actually the metabolism of
capable of descriptions. But oxygen is painless,
organisms like ourselves goes to great lengths to avoid oxygen
toxicity. Look up the Wikiparticle on "Oxygen toxicity."
I "think" it's a reference to a song in MASH:
Through early morning fog I see
Visions of the things to be
The pains that are withheld for me
I realize and I can see
That suicide is painless
It brings on many changes
And I can take or leave it
If I pleas
It brought us many changes.
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 2:30:30?AM UTC-4, jillery wrote:
On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 16:42:25 -0700 (PDT), Lawyer Daggett
<j.nobel...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 10:45:28?PM UTC-4, jillery wrote:
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 08:31:42 -0700 (PDT), erik simpson
<eastsi...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 1:40:28?AM UTC-7, jillery wrote:
Somewhat related to another current topic, the following is a link to >> >> >> a 1 hour and 15 minute video which provides a reasonably comprehensiveAt one time, oxygen would have been described as a poisonous gas, had there been creatures
and accurate narrative of the five mass extinctions life on Earth has >> >> >> endured and survived, along with speculation about a likely 6th mass >> >> >> extinction happening right now:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkOPahZM3qI>
My impression there are some inaccurate details. For example, it
makes no mention of the mass extinction resulting from the Great
Oxygenation Event:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxidation_Event>
but its broad strokes are substantially correct.
capable of descriptions. But oxygen is painless, It brought us many changes.
See the Wiki entry on the Francevillian biota, an enigmatic and short-lived phenomenon that
may have been eukaryotic or even multi-cellular. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francevillian_biota
Molecular oxygen is a highly energetic free radical and oxidizes
almost all biochemicals, and in that sense is poisonous to all life.
Aerobic life builds many hoops to manage oxygen and capture its
greater chemical potential. Even so, there are conditions where
oxygen breaks those hoops and kills even aerobes:
<https://myhealth.ucsd.edu/RelatedItems/3,90904>
Anybody who has suffered hydrogen peroxide burns is intimately
familiar with that fact.
Presumably you meant to write atomic oxygen and not molecular
oxygen as molecular oxygen is not a free radical.
Correct.
Atomic oxygen is.
There are additional nits to pick but at the broadest level the thrust
is correct. Biochemically, oxygen is a dangerous partner. It does,
however, provide pathways for much more efficient extraction of
chemical energy, and for that matter more efficient pathways to
store chemical energy.
I confess to discomfort at your terminology of "hoops" as I can't
seem to map the implied metaphor to the antioxidation pathways
I'm most familiar with.
I note you don't identify the "implication" you inferred.
That would be because the best I could manage for "hoops" would
be "jump through hoops" yet that is such an odd turn of phrase
for biochemical pathways that I didn't want to assert that as your
meaning. Should you have had something to flesh it out I figured
you would simply expand on your intent.
It's just nitpicking though so didn't seem worth obsessing over.
Instead, I tried to compose something that might be more useful.
I would rather say that the dangers of
spontaneous oxidation of biomolecules increases with oxygen
concentration and spontaneous oxidation is indeed dangerous.
To guard against spontaneous oxidation that are multiple pathways
that have evolved to keep cells/organisms supplied with molecules
that act to be sacrificial acceptors of over-reactive species, and
pathways to reverse some of the damage that nevertheless occurs.
Such pathways can be, and are at time, overwhelmed by higher
than typical oxygen concentrations, or higher than typical concentrations >> >of other species with high oxidation potential.
And as a note of relevance to the Panda's Thumb, if you drink booze,
try to keep up your supply of glutathione and don't take acetaminophen
(watch out for meds that include it).
On Fri, 17 Mar 2023 00:36:46 -0700 (PDT), Lawyer Daggett <j.nobel...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 2:30:30?AM UTC-4, jillery wrote:
On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 16:42:25 -0700 (PDT), Lawyer Daggett
<j.nobel...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 10:45:28?PM UTC-4, jillery wrote:
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 08:31:42 -0700 (PDT), erik simpson
<eastsi...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 1:40:28?AM UTC-7, jillery wrote:
Somewhat related to another current topic, the following is a link toAt one time, oxygen would have been described as a poisonous gas, had there been creatures
a 1 hour and 15 minute video which provides a reasonably comprehensive
and accurate narrative of the five mass extinctions life on Earth has
endured and survived, along with speculation about a likely 6th mass
extinction happening right now:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkOPahZM3qI>
My impression there are some inaccurate details. For example, it
makes no mention of the mass extinction resulting from the Great
Oxygenation Event:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxidation_Event>
but its broad strokes are substantially correct.
capable of descriptions. But oxygen is painless, It brought us many changes.
See the Wiki entry on the Francevillian biota, an enigmatic and short-lived phenomenon that
may have been eukaryotic or even multi-cellular. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francevillian_biota
Molecular oxygen is a highly energetic free radical and oxidizes
almost all biochemicals, and in that sense is poisonous to all life. >> >> Aerobic life builds many hoops to manage oxygen and capture its
greater chemical potential. Even so, there are conditions where
oxygen breaks those hoops and kills even aerobes:
<https://myhealth.ucsd.edu/RelatedItems/3,90904>
Anybody who has suffered hydrogen peroxide burns is intimately
familiar with that fact.
Presumably you meant to write atomic oxygen and not molecular
oxygen as molecular oxygen is not a free radical.
Correct.
Atomic oxygen is.
There are additional nits to pick but at the broadest level the thrust >> >is correct. Biochemically, oxygen is a dangerous partner. It does,
however, provide pathways for much more efficient extraction of
chemical energy, and for that matter more efficient pathways to
store chemical energy.
I confess to discomfort at your terminology of "hoops" as I can't
seem to map the implied metaphor to the antioxidation pathways
I'm most familiar with.
I note you don't identify the "implication" you inferred.
That would be because the best I could manage for "hoops" wouldSince you mention it, I do imagine electrons jumping through
be "jump through hoops" yet that is such an odd turn of phrase
for biochemical pathways that I didn't want to assert that as your >meaning. Should you have had something to flesh it out I figured
you would simply expand on your intent.
biochemical hoops as they incrementally parcel out their energy:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citric_acid_cycle>
ISTM odd you think my metaphor odd, but you're entitled to your
metaphorical opinions, as am I.
It's just nitpicking though so didn't seem worth obsessing over.
Instead, I tried to compose something that might be more useful.
So are you "discomforted" by your nitpicking? Or by confessing to it?
I would rather say that the dangers of
spontaneous oxidation of biomolecules increases with oxygen
concentration and spontaneous oxidation is indeed dangerous.
To guard against spontaneous oxidation that are multiple pathways
that have evolved to keep cells/organisms supplied with molecules
that act to be sacrificial acceptors of over-reactive species, and
pathways to reverse some of the damage that nevertheless occurs.
Such pathways can be, and are at time, overwhelmed by higher
than typical oxygen concentrations, or higher than typical concentrations
of other species with high oxidation potential.
And as a note of relevance to the Panda's Thumb, if you drink booze,
try to keep up your supply of glutathione and don't take acetaminophen >> >(watch out for meds that include it).
--
You're entitled to your own opinions.
You're not entitled to your own facts.
So are you "discomforted" by your nitpicking? Or by confessing to it?
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 9:35:31?PM UTC-4, jillery wrote:
On Fri, 17 Mar 2023 00:36:46 -0700 (PDT), Lawyer Daggett
<j.nobel...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, March 17, 2023 at 2:30:30?AM UTC-4, jillery wrote:Since you mention it, I do imagine electrons jumping through
On Thu, 16 Mar 2023 16:42:25 -0700 (PDT), Lawyer Daggett
<j.nobel...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 10:45:28?PM UTC-4, jillery wrote:
On Wed, 15 Mar 2023 08:31:42 -0700 (PDT), erik simpson
<eastsi...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, March 15, 2023 at 1:40:28?AM UTC-7, jillery wrote:
Somewhat related to another current topic, the following is a link toAt one time, oxygen would have been described as a poisonous gas, had there been creatures
a 1 hour and 15 minute video which provides a reasonably comprehensive
and accurate narrative of the five mass extinctions life on Earth has
endured and survived, along with speculation about a likely 6th mass
extinction happening right now:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkOPahZM3qI>
My impression there are some inaccurate details. For example, it >> >> >> >> makes no mention of the mass extinction resulting from the Great >> >> >> >> Oxygenation Event:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Oxidation_Event>
but its broad strokes are substantially correct.
capable of descriptions. But oxygen is painless, It brought us many changes.
See the Wiki entry on the Francevillian biota, an enigmatic and short-lived phenomenon that
may have been eukaryotic or even multi-cellular. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francevillian_biota
Molecular oxygen is a highly energetic free radical and oxidizes
almost all biochemicals, and in that sense is poisonous to all life. >> >> >> Aerobic life builds many hoops to manage oxygen and capture its
greater chemical potential. Even so, there are conditions where
oxygen breaks those hoops and kills even aerobes:
<https://myhealth.ucsd.edu/RelatedItems/3,90904>
Anybody who has suffered hydrogen peroxide burns is intimately
familiar with that fact.
Presumably you meant to write atomic oxygen and not molecular
oxygen as molecular oxygen is not a free radical.
Correct.
Atomic oxygen is.
There are additional nits to pick but at the broadest level the thrust >> >> >is correct. Biochemically, oxygen is a dangerous partner. It does,
however, provide pathways for much more efficient extraction of
chemical energy, and for that matter more efficient pathways to
store chemical energy.
I confess to discomfort at your terminology of "hoops" as I can't
seem to map the implied metaphor to the antioxidation pathways
I'm most familiar with.
I note you don't identify the "implication" you inferred.
That would be because the best I could manage for "hoops" would
be "jump through hoops" yet that is such an odd turn of phrase
for biochemical pathways that I didn't want to assert that as your
meaning. Should you have had something to flesh it out I figured
you would simply expand on your intent.
biochemical hoops as they incrementally parcel out their energy:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citric_acid_cycle>
ISTM odd you think my metaphor odd, but you're entitled to your
metaphorical opinions, as am I.
It's just nitpicking though so didn't seem worth obsessing over.
Instead, I tried to compose something that might be more useful.
So are you "discomforted" by your nitpicking? Or by confessing to it?
I would rather say that the dangers of
spontaneous oxidation of biomolecules increases with oxygen
concentration and spontaneous oxidation is indeed dangerous.
To guard against spontaneous oxidation that are multiple pathways
that have evolved to keep cells/organisms supplied with molecules
that act to be sacrificial acceptors of over-reactive species, and
pathways to reverse some of the damage that nevertheless occurs.
Such pathways can be, and are at time, overwhelmed by higher
than typical oxygen concentrations, or higher than typical concentrations
of other species with high oxidation potential.
And as a note of relevance to the Panda's Thumb, if you drink booze,
try to keep up your supply of glutathione and don't take acetaminophen >> >> >(watch out for meds that include it).
You ask,
So are you "discomforted" by your nitpicking? Or by confessing to it?
Neither, as should be obvious. Further, your expansion on your
context of "hoops" does nothing to make it seem more apropos to me.
It just doesn't mesh with my understanding of biochemistry.
As I don't think you value my perspective on biochemistry, that
should end this.
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