******************************
@7:24
These two guys were exploring for fossils. They were working with my
friend Lee Berger, who is a National Geographic Explorer-in-Residence
and also a professor at the University of Witwatersrand. Lee is famous
for having discovered Australopithecus sediba in 2008. And the story
of sediba goes that his son found the fossil. The story of naledi goes
that these cavers found the fossil. They were looking for fossils, and
in this cave, which is less than 800 meters away from one of the most
famous fossil sites in the world, Swartkrans, less than one-and-a-half kilometers from Sterkfontein, the largest fossil hominin assemblage in
Africa at the time. This area that within two kilometers are five
famous hominin fossil sites, no one had ever located any fossils in
this cave. They're there and these guys found, on that first trip, not
only the Dinaledi Chamber but also they went through a second chamber,
the Lesedi Chamber.
*************************************
jillery wrote:
******************************
@7:24
These two guys were exploring for fossils. They were working with my
friend Lee Berger, who is a National Geographic Explorer-in-Residence
and also a professor at the University of Witwatersrand. Lee is famous
for having discovered Australopithecus sediba in 2008. And the story
of sediba goes that his son found the fossil. The story of naledi goes
that these cavers found the fossil. They were looking for fossils, and
in this cave, which is less than 800 meters away from one of the most
famous fossil sites in the world, Swartkrans, less than one-and-a-half
kilometers from Sterkfontein, the largest fossil hominin assemblage in
Africa at the time. This area that within two kilometers are five
famous hominin fossil sites, no one had ever located any fossils in
this cave. They're there and these guys found, on that first trip, not
only the Dinaledi Chamber but also they went through a second chamber,
the Lesedi Chamber.
*************************************
The problem with the Naledi myth is that it's like New England weather:
If you don't like it, wait 15 minutes. It'll change.
According to Berger's latest, not only was evidence for fire found in all the >chambers, as well as found along the paths they took to explore these >caverns, but animal remains are found in all but the Naledi cavern. So, >according to the latest version of the myth, "Explorers" searched this cave >without searching at all, in fact they did a rather EXCELLENT job of not >searching, until they just happened to find the Naledi chamber and then >refused to so much as look up... for six or more years.
The story is bullshit. It's never made sense, it's never been consistent. This >isn't a matter for argument, look at what Berger is saying TODAY, look at >what they were saying up until today. The two do not match in the slightest.
The following link is to a one-hour video lecture by John Hawks about
the remarkable hominin fossil site located in the Rising Star cave
system in South Africa.
I don't recall if anybody posted this to T.O. before. Youtube recently
pushed the link to the top of my viewing list. The video was
originally produced way back in October 2017 by PBS Wisconsin
University, but apparently wasn't posted to Youtube until 2022.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLJVHgCZmzI>
From the transcript:
******************************
@7:24
These two guys were exploring for fossils. They were working with my
friend Lee Berger, who is a National Geographic Explorer-in-Residence
and also a professor at the University of Witwatersrand. Lee is famous
for having discovered Australopithecus sediba in 2008. And the story
of sediba goes that his son found the fossil. The story of naledi goes
that these cavers found the fossil. They were looking for fossils, and
in this cave, which is less than 800 meters away from one of the most
famous fossil sites in the world, Swartkrans, less than one-and-a-half kilometers from Sterkfontein, the largest fossil hominin assemblage in
Africa at the time. This area that within two kilometers are five
famous hominin fossil sites, no one had ever located any fossils in
this cave. They're there and these guys found, on that first trip, not
only the Dinaledi Chamber but also they went through a second chamber,
the Lesedi Chamber.
*************************************
On 2/10/2023 9:34 PM, jillery wrote:
The following link is to a one-hour video lecture by John Hawks about
the remarkable hominin fossil site located in the Rising Star cave
system in South Africa.
I don't recall if anybody posted this to T.O. before. Youtube recently
pushed the link to the top of my viewing list. The video was
originally produced way back in October 2017 by PBS Wisconsin
University, but apparently wasn't posted to Youtube until 2022.
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLJVHgCZmzI>
From the transcript:
******************************
@7:24
These two guys were exploring for fossils. They were working with my
friend Lee Berger, who is a National Geographic Explorer-in-Residence
and also a professor at the University of Witwatersrand. Lee is famous
for having discovered Australopithecus sediba in 2008. And the story
of sediba goes that his son found the fossil. The story of naledi goes
that these cavers found the fossil. They were looking for fossils, and
in this cave, which is less than 800 meters away from one of the most
famous fossil sites in the world, Swartkrans, less than one-and-a-half
kilometers from Sterkfontein, the largest fossil hominin assemblage in
Africa at the time. This area that within two kilometers are five
famous hominin fossil sites, no one had ever located any fossils in
this cave. They're there and these guys found, on that first trip, not
only the Dinaledi Chamber but also they went through a second chamber,
the Lesedi Chamber.
*************************************
https://www.homonaledi.org/dawn-of-humanity-nova-documentary/
This NOVA video is from 2015. At the time I posted it on TO and I said
that it was one of the best NOVA documentaries ever made. It overhyped
the fossils, but the human side of the documentary portrayed why I would >hope that most of us are involved in science. The women that were small >enough to wriggle into the cave had the drive and desire to be
participants in the scientific endeavor. They had the desire to unlock
some of nature's secrets.
Unlike IDiots they were not interested in the denial, but their goal was >discovery.
Ron Okimoto
This NOVA video is from 2015. At the time I posted it on TO and I said
that it was one of the best NOVA documentaries ever made. It overhyped
the fossils, but the human side of the documentary portrayed why I would
hope that most of us are involved in science. The women that were small enough to wriggle into the cave had the drive and desire to be
participants in the scientific endeavor. They had the desire to unlock
some of nature's secrets.
That's what happens whenever a trove of new evidence is introduced
into a topic previously with little evidence. Scientists consider
that a Good Thing(c). Apparently your mileage varies.
I am skeptical of your summary.
Cite your source for "Berger's
latest".
There have been several productions made using the same material. The Dinaledi chamber was originally discovered in 2013.
jillery wrote:
That's what happens whenever a trove of new evidence is introduced
into a topic previously with little evidence. Scientists consider
that a Good Thing(c). Apparently your mileage varies.
You're mischaracterizing everything.
The myth is that the cave was not explored. That, there was evidence of
fire everywhere, animal bones everywhere but nobody ever saw them.
Instead they dragged and squeezed their way through a very long path,
all the while ignoring their surroundings, until the reached the Naledi >cavern. Then they started looking. Everywhere but up. Then they left,
again ignoring their surroundings, told Berger and he sent people into
the cave systems that they themselves ignored entirely. Yup. They
went straight to the Naledi chamber before looking, and even then they >continued the strict tradition of refusing to look up. And this went on
for six freaking years... even exploring other caverns, even increasing
the brain volume estimates because of something they claim to have
found in another chamber... the fires and animal bones were all
invisible. Still. They remained oblivious to everything. These explorers.
For six years.
I am skeptical of your summary.
"I unconditionally accept & rudely believe the media!"
Cite your source for "Berger's
latest".
You posted it already. YOU posted it. YOU did.
https://groups.google.com/g/sci.bio.paleontology/c/rrTZOHjtQO8/m/2yU4b3_mEwAJ
There. The first indication of any fires was when he entered the cave and
he alone looked up. AND he also posts image after image of fire evidence, >details how the team had been dragging their bodies on top of it, claims
that the animal remains are everywhere EXCEPT the Naledi chamber...
Are you ignorant of how the brain size estimate were revised UPWARD
after a single "Find" in another chamber? If you are, then maybe you can
be excused for not knowing that they had been in other chambers, not
seeing any fires or animal remains...
But what's your excuse for being ignorant of the contents of your own
cite?
jillery wrote:
There have been several productions made using the same material. The
Dinaledi chamber was originally discovered in 2013.
They say that the caves have been explored since the 1960s, actually.
Hard to believe that these jokers can say with a straight face that sub >Saharan Africans are so dumb that they can't even stumble upon a
cave...
Easy enough to find a cave entrance. Much harder to crawl into cracks
that would trap untrained and/or stupid individuals.
And you *still* haven't even tried to identify what you claim I am "mischaracterizing". Why is that?
Thanks to Rising Star cave,
we have more data about H.naledi as a population than we do about H.neanderthalensis or H.erectus.
Either you believe the source material and the project leader
Barring evidence to the contrary
You posted it already. YOU posted it. YOU did.
https://groups.google.com/g/sci.bio.paleontology/c/rrTZOHjtQO8/m/2yU4b3_mEwAJ
Thank you for
For those who are interested in the actual topic, here's a link to the
video I cited:
Nothing Berger says in this video is remotely close to JTEM's mischaracterizations that Berger felt the previous 6 years "ignored"
and were "oblivious" to the evidence.
jillery wrote:
Easy enough to find a cave entrance. Much harder to crawl into cracks
that would trap untrained and/or stupid individuals.
The trained/brilliant individuals are the ones who never looked around, >except in Naledi chamber itself, and never even looked up there.
Easy enough to find a cave entrance. Much harder to crawl into cracks
that would trap untrained and/or stupid individuals.
The trained/brilliant individuals are the ones who discovered Naledi
chamber.
On this planet, in the video that YOU posted he states that the evidence >for fire was not discovered until HE PERSONALLY entered the cave and
looked up. SIX GODDAMN YEARS or more and he was the only person
to look up. According to him. Quite unambiguously... in the video you >posted... your own cite.
... which does NOT say Berger feels the previous 6 years "ignored"
Handicapped, jillery wrote:
The trained/brilliant individuals are the ones who discovered Naledi
chamber.
No. Wrong.
Prove it.
jillery wrote:
Prove it.
I did, mental case. I cited it. I even cited myself citing it.
Here's me citing me citing it:
https://groups.google.com/g/talk.origins/c/PGKkCMrYSwM/m/B1u9AEXcAQAJ
JTEM continued to Bestow Truth:
https://groups.google.com/g/talk.origins/c/PGKkCMrYSwM/m/B1u9AEXcAQAJ
That's you claiming
jillery wrote:
JTEM continued to troll:
https://groups.google.com/g/talk.origins/c/PGKkCMrYSwM/m/B1u9AEXcAQAJ
That's you claiming to prove it, when in fact your "proof" is based on
a personal and unique definition, a common tactic among willfully
stupid trolls.
No. That's your mental problems speaking. I cited the exact same video that you
did using your Ron O node. I pointed out what was wrong with it, what to look for.
Funny how you think this was wrong when I did it but you approved when your >Ron O node did it... real funny... hilarious.
You are a faker.
No. That's your mental problems speaking. I cited the exact same video that you
did using your Ron O node. I pointed out what was wrong with it, what to look for.
Funny how you think this was wrong when I did it but you approved when your >Ron O node did it... real funny... hilarious.
You are a faker.
Since you mention it
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