• Cause and effect.

    From israel socratus@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 29 04:37:10 2023
    Cause and effect.
    Cause and effect are omnipresent in our everyday lives, as well as in quantum mechanics.
    And if in modern philosophy this concept (cause and effect) causes controversy, then this is due to a misunderstanding of the essence of quantum mechanics.
    #
    "Cause and effect" in quantum physics is subject to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle
    "Facts and probability" in quantum physics is subject to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle
    The past is fixed and clear. It is impossible to revive the time that has gone into the past. The future obeys Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.
    Heisenberg's uncertainty principle establishes the barrier of laws, below which
    these laws transform according to “The law of conservation and transformation of energy/mass".
    ------.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dale@21:1/5 to israel socratus on Sun Jan 29 15:01:08 2023
    On 1/29/2023 7:37 AM, israel socratus wrote:
    Cause and effect.
    Cause and effect are omnipresent in our everyday lives, as well as in quantum mechanics.
    And if in modern philosophy this concept (cause and effect) causes controversy, then this is due to a misunderstanding of the essence of quantum mechanics.
    #
    "Cause and effect" in quantum physics is subject to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle
    "Facts and probability" in quantum physics is subject to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle
    The past is fixed and clear. It is impossible to revive the time that has gone into the past. The future obeys Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.
    Heisenberg's uncertainty principle establishes the barrier of laws, below which
    these laws transform according to “The law of conservation and transformation of energy/mass".
    ------.



    set theory adds consciousness to cause and effect

    --
    Mystery? -> https://www.dalekelly.org/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 29 15:43:35 2023
    On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:01:08 -0500, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by Dale <dale@dalekelly.org>:

    On 1/29/2023 7:37 AM, israel socratus wrote:
    Cause and effect.
    Cause and effect are omnipresent in our everyday lives, as well as in quantum mechanics.
    And if in modern philosophy this concept (cause and effect) causes controversy, then this is due to a misunderstanding of the essence of quantum mechanics.
    #
    "Cause and effect" in quantum physics is subject to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle
    "Facts and probability" in quantum physics is subject to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle
    The past is fixed and clear. It is impossible to revive the time that has gone into the past. The future obeys Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.
    Heisenberg's uncertainty principle establishes the barrier of laws, below which
    these laws transform according to “The law of conservation and transformation of energy/mass".
    ------.



    set theory...

    You keep using that term. I do not think it means what you
    think it means.

    ... adds consciousness to cause and effect
    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dale@21:1/5 to Dale on Sun Jan 29 20:09:33 2023
    On 1/29/2023 7:54 PM, Dale wrote:
    On 1/29/2023 5:43 PM, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:01:08 -0500, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by Dale <dale@dalekelly.org>:

    On 1/29/2023 7:37 AM, israel socratus wrote:
    Cause and effect.
    Cause and effect are omnipresent in our everyday lives, as well as
    in quantum mechanics.
    And if in modern philosophy this concept (cause and effect) causes
    controversy, then this is due to a misunderstanding of the essence
    of quantum mechanics.
    #
    "Cause and effect" in quantum physics is subject to Heisenberg's
    uncertainty principle
    "Facts and probability" in quantum physics is subject to
    Heisenberg's uncertainty principle
    The past is fixed and clear. It is impossible to revive the time
    that has gone into the past. The future obeys Heisenberg Uncertainty
    Principle.
    Heisenberg's uncertainty principle establishes the barrier of laws,
    below which
       these laws transform according to “The law of conservation and
    transformation of energy/mass".
    ------.



    set theory...

    You keep using that term. I do not think it means what you
    think it means.

    "The Whole" exists



    ... adds consciousness to cause and effect



    apply full induction and all pieces exist

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_reasoning

    apply full deduction to all pieces and "The Whole" exists

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deductive_reasoning


    --
    Mystery? -> https://www.dalekelly.org/

    Facebook-> https://www.facebook.com/dalekellytoo/
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    GitHub -> https://github.com/dalekellytoo
    LinkedIn -> https://www.linkedin.com/in/dalekellytoo/
    Pinterest -> https://www.pinterest.com/dalekellytoo/

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  • From Dale@21:1/5 to Bob Casanova on Sun Jan 29 19:54:26 2023
    On 1/29/2023 5:43 PM, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:01:08 -0500, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by Dale <dale@dalekelly.org>:

    On 1/29/2023 7:37 AM, israel socratus wrote:
    Cause and effect.
    Cause and effect are omnipresent in our everyday lives, as well as in quantum mechanics.
    And if in modern philosophy this concept (cause and effect) causes controversy, then this is due to a misunderstanding of the essence of quantum mechanics.
    #
    "Cause and effect" in quantum physics is subject to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle
    "Facts and probability" in quantum physics is subject to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle
    The past is fixed and clear. It is impossible to revive the time that has gone into the past. The future obeys Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.
    Heisenberg's uncertainty principle establishes the barrier of laws, below which
    these laws transform according to “The law of conservation and transformation of energy/mass".
    ------.



    set theory...

    You keep using that term. I do not think it means what you
    think it means.

    "The Whole" exists



    ... adds consciousness to cause and effect

    --
    Mystery? -> https://www.dalekelly.org/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dale@21:1/5 to Dale on Sun Jan 29 20:44:27 2023
    On 1/29/2023 8:09 PM, Dale wrote:
    On 1/29/2023 7:54 PM, Dale wrote:
    On 1/29/2023 5:43 PM, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:01:08 -0500, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by Dale <dale@dalekelly.org>:

    On 1/29/2023 7:37 AM, israel socratus wrote:
    Cause and effect.
    Cause and effect are omnipresent in our everyday lives, as well as
    in quantum mechanics.
    And if in modern philosophy this concept (cause and effect) causes
    controversy, then this is due to a misunderstanding of the essence
    of quantum mechanics.
    #
    "Cause and effect" in quantum physics is subject to Heisenberg's
    uncertainty principle
    "Facts and probability" in quantum physics is subject to
    Heisenberg's uncertainty principle
    The past is fixed and clear. It is impossible to revive the time
    that has gone into the past. The future obeys Heisenberg
    Uncertainty Principle.
    Heisenberg's uncertainty principle establishes the barrier of laws,
    below which
       these laws transform according to “The law of conservation and >>>>> transformation of energy/mass".
    ------.



    set theory...

    You keep using that term. I do not think it means what you
    think it means.

    "The Whole" exists



    ... adds consciousness to cause and effect



    apply full induction and all pieces exist

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inductive_reasoning

    apply full deduction to all pieces and "The Whole" exists

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deductive_reasoning



    sorry ...

    got induction/deduction backward

    --
    Mystery? -> https://www.dalekelly.org/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 29 23:02:35 2023
    On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 19:54:26 -0500, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by Dale <dale@dalekelly.org>:

    On 1/29/2023 5:43 PM, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:01:08 -0500, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by Dale <dale@dalekelly.org>:

    On 1/29/2023 7:37 AM, israel socratus wrote:
    Cause and effect.
    Cause and effect are omnipresent in our everyday lives, as well as in quantum mechanics.
    And if in modern philosophy this concept (cause and effect) causes controversy, then this is due to a misunderstanding of the essence of quantum mechanics.
    #
    "Cause and effect" in quantum physics is subject to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle
    "Facts and probability" in quantum physics is subject to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle
    The past is fixed and clear. It is impossible to revive the time that has gone into the past. The future obeys Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.
    Heisenberg's uncertainty principle establishes the barrier of laws, below which
    these laws transform according to “The law of conservation and transformation of energy/mass".
    ------.



    set theory...

    You keep using that term. I do not think it means what you
    think it means.

    "The Whole" exists

    Sorry; do you imagine that math theories have anything to do
    with anything other than math? That would explain a lot.


    ... adds consciousness to cause and effect
    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From israel socratus@21:1/5 to Dale on Sun Jan 29 23:04:56 2023
    On Monday, January 30, 2023 at 3:15:08 AM UTC+2, Dale wrote:
    On 1/29/2023 7:54 PM, Dale wrote:
    On 1/29/2023 5:43 PM, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:01:08 -0500, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by Dale <da...@dalekelly.org>:

    On 1/29/2023 7:37 AM, israel socratus wrote:
    Cause and effect.
    ------.

    set theory...

    You keep using that term. I do not think it means what you
    think it means.

    "The Whole" exists
    -------------------------------------------
    set theory (The Whole theory, that included everything:
    metaphysics, psychiatry, biology, religion . . . etc)
    adds consciousness to cause and effect

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From israel socratus@21:1/5 to Bob Casanova on Sun Jan 29 23:57:54 2023
    On Monday, January 30, 2023 at 8:05:09 AM UTC+2, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 19:54:26 -0500, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by Dale <da...@dalekelly.org>:

    On 1/29/2023 5:43 PM, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:01:08 -0500, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by Dale <da...@dalekelly.org>:

    On 1/29/2023 7:37 AM, israel socratus wrote:
    Cause and effect.
    Cause and effect are omnipresent in our everyday lives, as well as in quantum mechanics.
    And if in modern philosophy this concept (cause and effect) causes controversy, then this is due to a misunderstanding of the essence of quantum mechanics.
    #
    "Cause and effect" in quantum physics is subject to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle
    "Facts and probability" in quantum physics is subject to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle
    The past is fixed and clear. It is impossible to revive the time that has gone into the past. The future obeys Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.
    Heisenberg's uncertainty principle establishes the barrier of laws, below which
    these laws transform according to å…¸he law of conservation and transformation of energy/mass".
    ------.



    set theory...

    You keep using that term. I do not think it means what you
    think it means.

    "The Whole" exists

    Sorry; do you imagine that math theories have anything to do
    with anything other than math? That would explain a lot.


    ... adds consciousness to cause and effect
    --
    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov
    ==============
    set theory (The Whole theory, that included everything:
    induction/deduction, metaphysics, psychiatry, biology, religion . . . etc) adds consciousness to cause and effect

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dale@21:1/5 to Bob Casanova on Mon Jan 30 18:35:28 2023
    On 1/30/2023 1:02 AM, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 19:54:26 -0500, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by Dale <dale@dalekelly.org>:

    On 1/29/2023 5:43 PM, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:01:08 -0500, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by Dale <dale@dalekelly.org>:

    On 1/29/2023 7:37 AM, israel socratus wrote:
    Cause and effect.
    Cause and effect are omnipresent in our everyday lives, as well as in quantum mechanics.
    And if in modern philosophy this concept (cause and effect) causes controversy, then this is due to a misunderstanding of the essence of quantum mechanics.
    #
    "Cause and effect" in quantum physics is subject to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle
    "Facts and probability" in quantum physics is subject to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle
    The past is fixed and clear. It is impossible to revive the time that has gone into the past. The future obeys Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.
    Heisenberg's uncertainty principle establishes the barrier of laws, below which
    these laws transform according to “The law of conservation and transformation of energy/mass".
    ------.



    set theory...

    You keep using that term. I do not think it means what you
    think it means.

    "The Whole" exists

    Sorry; do you imagine that math theories have anything to do
    with anything other than math? That would explain a lot.


    where are you with carbon-14?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C14orf80



    ... adds consciousness to cause and effect

    --
    Mystery? -> https://www.dalekelly.org/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dale@21:1/5 to israel socratus on Mon Jan 30 18:39:01 2023
    On 1/30/2023 2:04 AM, israel socratus wrote:
    On Monday, January 30, 2023 at 3:15:08 AM UTC+2, Dale wrote:
    On 1/29/2023 7:54 PM, Dale wrote:
    On 1/29/2023 5:43 PM, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:01:08 -0500, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by Dale <da...@dalekelly.org>:

    On 1/29/2023 7:37 AM, israel socratus wrote:
    Cause and effect.
    ------.

    set theory...

    You keep using that term. I do not think it means what you
    think it means.

    "The Whole" exists
    -------------------------------------------
    set theory (The Whole theory, that included everything:
    metaphysics, psychiatry, biology, religion . . . etc)
    adds consciousness to cause and effect


    inference is empiricism of the brain?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inference

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empiricism

    --
    Mystery? -> https://www.dalekelly.org/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 30 20:46:14 2023
    On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 18:35:28 -0500, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by Dale <dale@dalekelly.org>:

    On 1/30/2023 1:02 AM, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 19:54:26 -0500, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by Dale <dale@dalekelly.org>:

    On 1/29/2023 5:43 PM, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:01:08 -0500, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by Dale <dale@dalekelly.org>:

    On 1/29/2023 7:37 AM, israel socratus wrote:
    Cause and effect.
    Cause and effect are omnipresent in our everyday lives, as well as in quantum mechanics.
    And if in modern philosophy this concept (cause and effect) causes controversy, then this is due to a misunderstanding of the essence of quantum mechanics.
    #
    "Cause and effect" in quantum physics is subject to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle
    "Facts and probability" in quantum physics is subject to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle
    The past is fixed and clear. It is impossible to revive the time that has gone into the past. The future obeys Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.
    Heisenberg's uncertainty principle establishes the barrier of laws, below which
    these laws transform according to “The law of conservation and transformation of energy/mass".
    ------.



    set theory...

    You keep using that term. I do not think it means what you
    think it means.

    "The Whole" exists

    Sorry; do you imagine that math theories have anything to do
    with anything other than math? That would explain a lot.


    where are you with carbon-14?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C14orf80

    Just curious...Are you familiar with the concept of "non
    sequitur"?

    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From israel socratus@21:1/5 to Dale on Tue Jan 31 00:41:11 2023
    On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 1:40:09 AM UTC+2, Dale wrote:
    On 1/30/2023 2:04 AM, israel socratus wrote:
    On Monday, January 30, 2023 at 3:15:08 AM UTC+2, Dale wrote:
    On 1/29/2023 7:54 PM, Dale wrote:
    On 1/29/2023 5:43 PM, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:01:08 -0500, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by Dale <da...@dalekelly.org>:

    On 1/29/2023 7:37 AM, israel socratus wrote:
    Cause and effect.
    ------.

    set theory...

    You keep using that term. I do not think it means what you
    think it means.

    "The Whole" exists
    -------------------------------------------
    set theory (The Whole theory, that included everything:
    metaphysics, psychiatry, biology, religion . . . etc)
    adds consciousness to cause and effect

    inference is empiricism of the brain?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inference

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Empiricism
    --
    Mystery? -> https://www.dalekelly.org/
    -----------------
    the brain's conclusion can be right or wrong, and it doesn't solve
    the "cause and effect" problem of consciousness

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Burkhard@21:1/5 to Dale on Tue Jan 31 03:14:05 2023
    On Monday, January 30, 2023 at 12:55:08 AM UTC, Dale wrote:
    On 1/29/2023 5:43 PM, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Sun, 29 Jan 2023 15:01:08 -0500, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by Dale <da...@dalekelly.org>:

    On 1/29/2023 7:37 AM, israel socratus wrote:
    Cause and effect.
    Cause and effect are omnipresent in our everyday lives, as well as in quantum mechanics.
    And if in modern philosophy this concept (cause and effect) causes controversy, then this is due to a misunderstanding of the essence of quantum mechanics.
    #
    "Cause and effect" in quantum physics is subject to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle
    "Facts and probability" in quantum physics is subject to Heisenberg's uncertainty principle
    The past is fixed and clear. It is impossible to revive the time that has gone into the past. The future obeys Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle.
    Heisenberg's uncertainty principle establishes the barrier of laws, below which
    these laws transform according to “The law of conservation and transformation of energy/mass".
    ------.



    set theory...

    You keep using that term. I do not think it means what you
    think it means.
    "The Whole" exists



    "whole" and "part" are not concepts from set theory, to start with.

    And to the extent that there is an equivalent to "the whole" in set theory, it would be V, the full Von Neumann universe - but while tacitly presumed, V does not exist with relation to any (consistent) set theory - one of the consequences of Goedel's
    theorems

    So no, you make as little sense as the first time you went down this route, and folks tried to explain to you why it makes no sense

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)