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  • Testing a scientific theory.

    From israel socratus@21:1/5 to All on Sat Dec 31 04:55:29 2022
    Testing a scientific theory.
    Mathematics is needed to test a scientific experimental theory.
    For exact accounting (so that the result would be convincing)
    is used the "law of conservation of energy, momentum ... symmetry".
    Problem:
    Strict bookkeeping account of income and expense is not related to nature. Nature uses ""the law of conservation and transformation of energy"
    and life on earth is associated with asymmetry.
    One example is when a caterpillar becomes a butterfly.
    -----

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From israel socratus@21:1/5 to All on Sat Dec 31 05:00:22 2022
    Testing a scientific theory.
    Mathematics is needed to test a scientific experimental theory.
    For exact accounting (so that the result would be convincing)
    is used the "law of conservation of energy, momentum ... symmetry".
    Problem:
    Strict bookkeeping account of income and expense is not related to nature. Nature uses ""the law of conservation and transformation of energy"
    and life on earth is associated with asymmetry.
    One example - a caterpillar becomes a butterfly.
    -----

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jillery@21:1/5 to socratus1944@gmail.com on Sat Dec 31 11:46:52 2022
    On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 04:55:29 -0800 (PST), israel socratus <socratus1944@gmail.com> wrote:

    Testing a scientific theory.
    Mathematics is needed to test a scientific experimental theory.
    For exact accounting (so that the result would be convincing)
    is used the "law of conservation of energy, momentum ... symmetry".


    Did you read the cited paper's "statistical analysis" section?


    Problem:
    Strict bookkeeping account of income and expense is not related to nature. Nature uses ""the law of conservation and transformation of energy"
    and life on earth is associated with asymmetry.
    One example is when a caterpillar becomes a butterfly.


    Life on Earth is also associated with a star that reliably provides
    160-340 watts per day per square meter to most of Earth's surface aka
    an open system.

    --
    You're entitled to your own opinions.
    You're not entitled to your own facts.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From israel socratus@21:1/5 to All on Sat Dec 31 10:27:49 2022
    On Saturday, December 31, 2022 at 6:50:35 PM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    -----------
    Does a caterpillar become a butterfly for a "statistical" reason? ----------------------

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. J. Lodder@21:1/5 to israel socratus on Sat Dec 31 20:42:59 2022
    israel socratus <socratus1944@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, December 31, 2022 at 6:50:35 PM UTC+2, jillery wrote: -----------
    Does a caterpillar become a butterfly for a "statistical" reason? ----------------------

    Certainly.
    Caterpillar becoming butterfly is by far the most likely outcome
    of zillions of microscopic processes inside,

    Jan

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jillery@21:1/5 to socratus1944@gmail.com on Sat Dec 31 20:46:24 2022
    On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 10:27:49 -0800 (PST), israel socratus <socratus1944@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, December 31, 2022 at 6:50:35 PM UTC+2, jillery wrote:

    -----------
    Does a caterpillar become a butterfly for a "statistical" reason? >----------------------


    How many butterflies and caterpillars do mathematics?

    --
    You're entitled to your own opinions.
    You're not entitled to your own facts.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From israel socratus@21:1/5 to jillery on Sun Jan 1 04:17:27 2023
    On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 3:50:36 AM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 10:27:49 -0800 (PST), israel socratus <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, December 31, 2022 at 6:50:35 PM UTC+2, jillery wrote:

    -----------
    Does a caterpillar become a butterfly for a "statistical" reason? >----------------------
    How many butterflies and caterpillars do mathematics?
    -------------
    What math do you use when you're hungry?
    ---------------

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jillery@21:1/5 to socratus1944@gmail.com on Sun Jan 1 07:41:20 2023
    On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 04:17:27 -0800 (PST), israel socratus <socratus1944@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 3:50:36 AM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 10:27:49 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, December 31, 2022 at 6:50:35 PM UTC+2, jillery wrote:

    -----------
    Does a caterpillar become a butterfly for a "statistical" reason?
    ----------------------
    How many butterflies and caterpillars do mathematics?
    -------------
    What math do you use when you're hungry?
    ---------------


    What math do you use?

    --
    You're entitled to your own opinions.
    You're not entitled to your own facts.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From israel socratus@21:1/5 to jillery on Sun Jan 1 10:44:01 2023
    On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 2:45:36 PM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 04:17:27 -0800 (PST), israel socratus <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 3:50:36 AM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 10:27:49 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, December 31, 2022 at 6:50:35 PM UTC+2, jillery wrote:

    -----------
    Does a caterpillar become a butterfly for a "statistical" reason?
    ----------------------
    How many butterflies and caterpillars do mathematics?
    -------------
    Mr, the butterfly/caterpillar does not use mathematics,
    its transformation is programmed initially by nature,
    because "transformation - assymetry" is the basic law of nature -----------------

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From jillery@21:1/5 to socratus1944@gmail.com on Sun Jan 1 14:04:39 2023
    On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 10:44:01 -0800 (PST), israel socratus <socratus1944@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 2:45:36 PM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 04:17:27 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 3:50:36 AM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 10:27:49 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, December 31, 2022 at 6:50:35 PM UTC+2, jillery wrote:

    -----------
    Does a caterpillar become a butterfly for a "statistical" reason?
    ----------------------
    How many butterflies and caterpillars do mathematics?
    -------------
    Mr, the butterfly/caterpillar does not use mathematics,
    its transformation is programmed initially by nature,
    because "transformation - assymetry" is the basic law of nature >-----------------

    I accept the above as your tacit agreement that your questions have no
    coherent point.

    --
    You're entitled to your own opinions.
    You're not entitled to your own facts.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jillery@21:1/5 to socratus1944@gmail.com on Sun Jan 1 15:37:31 2023
    On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 12:19:02 -0800 (PST), israel socratus <socratus1944@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 9:05:36 PM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 10:44:01 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 2:45:36 PM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 04:17:27 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 3:50:36 AM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 10:27:49 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, December 31, 2022 at 6:50:35 PM UTC+2, jillery wrote: >> >> >>
    -----------
    Does a caterpillar become a butterfly for a "statistical" reason?
    ----------------------
    How many butterflies and caterpillars do mathematics?
    -------------
    Mr, the butterfly/caterpillar does not use mathematics,
    its transformation is programmed initially by nature,
    because "transformation - assymetry" is the basic law of nature
    -----------------
    I accept the above as your tacit agreement that your questions have no
    coherent point.
    -----
    the coherent point - "transformation - asymmetry" is not bookkeeping account >----------

    I accept the above as your tacit agreement that your point has nothing
    to do with testing scientific hypotheses.

    --
    You're entitled to your own opinions.
    You're not entitled to your own facts.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From israel socratus@21:1/5 to jillery on Sun Jan 1 12:19:02 2023
    On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 9:05:36 PM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 10:44:01 -0800 (PST), israel socratus <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 2:45:36 PM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 04:17:27 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 3:50:36 AM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 10:27:49 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, December 31, 2022 at 6:50:35 PM UTC+2, jillery wrote:

    -----------
    Does a caterpillar become a butterfly for a "statistical" reason?
    ----------------------
    How many butterflies and caterpillars do mathematics?
    -------------
    Mr, the butterfly/caterpillar does not use mathematics,
    its transformation is programmed initially by nature,
    because "transformation - assymetry" is the basic law of nature >-----------------
    I accept the above as your tacit agreement that your questions have no coherent point.
    -----
    the coherent point - "transformation - asymmetry" is not bookkeeping account ----------

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From IDentity@21:1/5 to Lodder on Sat Jan 28 14:44:14 2023
    On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 20:42:59 +0100, nospam@de-ster.demon.nl (J. J.
    Lodder) wrote:

    israel socratus <socratus1944@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, December 31, 2022 at 6:50:35 PM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    -----------
    Does a caterpillar become a butterfly for a "statistical" reason?
    ----------------------

    Certainly.
    Caterpillar becoming butterfly is by far the most likely outcome
    of zillions of microscopic processes inside,

    Yes, design when it's best.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From IDentity@21:1/5 to socratus1944@gmail.com on Sat Jan 28 14:46:58 2023
    On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 04:17:27 -0800 (PST), israel socratus <socratus1944@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 3:50:36 AM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 10:27:49 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, December 31, 2022 at 6:50:35 PM UTC+2, jillery wrote:

    -----------
    Does a caterpillar become a butterfly for a "statistical" reason?
    ----------------------
    How many butterflies and caterpillars do mathematics?
    -------------
    What math do you use when you're hungry?
    ---------------

    Some count calories.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From israel socratus@21:1/5 to IDentity on Mon Jan 30 06:47:03 2023
    On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 3:50:07 PM UTC+2, IDentity wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 04:17:27 -0800 (PST), israel socratus <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 3:50:36 AM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 10:27:49 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, December 31, 2022 at 6:50:35 PM UTC+2, jillery wrote:

    -----------
    Does a caterpillar become a butterfly for a "statistical" reason?
    ----------------------
    How many butterflies and caterpillars do mathematics?
    -------------
    What math do you use when you're hungry?
    ---------------
    Some count calories.
    How many calories do caterpillars burn to turn into butterflies?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From William Hyde@21:1/5 to socrat...@gmail.com on Mon Jan 30 19:59:09 2023
    On Monday, January 30, 2023 at 9:50:09 AM UTC-5, socrat...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 3:50:07 PM UTC+2, IDentity wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 04:17:27 -0800 (PST), israel socratus <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 3:50:36 AM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 10:27:49 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, December 31, 2022 at 6:50:35 PM UTC+2, jillery wrote:

    -----------
    Does a caterpillar become a butterfly for a "statistical" reason?
    ----------------------
    How many butterflies and caterpillars do mathematics?
    -------------
    What math do you use when you're hungry?
    ---------------
    Some count calories.
    How many calories do caterpillars burn to turn into butterflies?

    Start with two thousand caterpillars of the same species. Burn a thousand, see how much heat they
    give off. Wait for the next thousand to become butterflies, then burn them. Repeat.

    William Hyde

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 30 21:06:58 2023
    On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 19:59:09 -0800 (PST), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by William Hyde
    <wthyde1953@gmail.com>:

    On Monday, January 30, 2023 at 9:50:09 AM UTC-5, socrat...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 3:50:07 PM UTC+2, IDentity wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 04:17:27 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 3:50:36 AM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 10:27:49 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, December 31, 2022 at 6:50:35 PM UTC+2, jillery wrote:

    -----------
    Does a caterpillar become a butterfly for a "statistical" reason?
    ----------------------
    How many butterflies and caterpillars do mathematics?
    -------------
    What math do you use when you're hungry?
    ---------------
    Some count calories.
    How many calories do caterpillars burn to turn into butterflies?

    Start with two thousand caterpillars of the same species. Burn a thousand, see how much heat they
    give off. Wait for the next thousand to become butterflies, then burn them. Repeat.

    I think you *may* have neglected something in there... :-)

    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From israel socratus@21:1/5 to William Hyde on Tue Jan 31 00:33:08 2023
    On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 6:00:10 AM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
    On Monday, January 30, 2023 at 9:50:09 AM UTC-5, socrat...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 3:50:07 PM UTC+2, IDentity wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 04:17:27 -0800 (PST), israel socratus <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 3:50:36 AM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 10:27:49 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, December 31, 2022 at 6:50:35 PM UTC+2, jillery wrote:

    -----------
    Does a caterpillar become a butterfly for a "statistical" reason?
    ----------------------
    How many butterflies and caterpillars do mathematics?
    -------------
    What math do you use when you're hungry?
    ---------------
    Some count calories.
    How many calories do caterpillars burn to turn into butterflies?
    Start with two thousand caterpillars of the same species. Burn a thousand, see how much heat they
    give off. Wait for the next thousand to become butterflies, then burn them. Repeat.

    William Hyde
    -------
    burning calories is an internal process, not an external one
    -------

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mark Isaak@21:1/5 to Bob Casanova on Tue Jan 31 14:24:54 2023
    On 1/30/23 8:06 PM, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 19:59:09 -0800 (PST), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by William Hyde
    <wthyde1953@gmail.com>:

    On Monday, January 30, 2023 at 9:50:09 AM UTC-5, socrat...@gmail.com wrote: >>> On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 3:50:07 PM UTC+2, IDentity wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 04:17:27 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 3:50:36 AM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 10:27:49 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, December 31, 2022 at 6:50:35 PM UTC+2, jillery wrote: >>>>>>
    -----------
    Does a caterpillar become a butterfly for a "statistical" reason? >>>>>>> ----------------------
    How many butterflies and caterpillars do mathematics?
    -------------
    What math do you use when you're hungry?
    ---------------
    Some count calories.
    How many calories do caterpillars burn to turn into butterflies?

    Start with two thousand caterpillars of the same species. Burn a thousand, see how much heat they
    give off. Wait for the next thousand to become butterflies, then burn them. Repeat.

    I think you *may* have neglected something in there... :-)

    That should work, provided you burn the first thousand just before they
    pupate. Of course, that measures the calories consumed only during
    pupation. If you want to measure calories over the whole lifespan of
    the caterpillar, you must also measure the heat in the food they consume
    and the frass they generate.

    As I recall, an adult silk moth is a quarter or less of the size of the caterpillar it came from. In that case, though, there have been
    centuries of domestic breeding to turn the calories into silk rather
    than into adult moths.

    --
    Mark Isaak
    "Wisdom begins when you discover the difference between 'That
    doesn't make sense' and 'I don't understand.'" - Mary Doria Russell

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From William Hyde@21:1/5 to socrat...@gmail.com on Tue Jan 31 15:34:49 2023
    On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 3:35:10 AM UTC-5, socrat...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 6:00:10 AM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
    On Monday, January 30, 2023 at 9:50:09 AM UTC-5, socrat...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 3:50:07 PM UTC+2, IDentity wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 04:17:27 -0800 (PST), israel socratus <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 3:50:36 AM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 10:27:49 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, December 31, 2022 at 6:50:35 PM UTC+2, jillery wrote: >>
    -----------
    Does a caterpillar become a butterfly for a "statistical" reason? >> >----------------------
    How many butterflies and caterpillars do mathematics?
    -------------
    What math do you use when you're hungry?
    ---------------
    Some count calories.
    How many calories do caterpillars burn to turn into butterflies?
    Start with two thousand caterpillars of the same species. Burn a thousand, see how much heat they
    give off. Wait for the next thousand to become butterflies, then burn them. Repeat.

    William Hyde
    -------
    burning calories is an internal process, not an external one

    Energy is conserved.

    But if you wish you can do other things, like keeping the pupae in a calorimeter and taking careful
    measurements.

    But don't let it be done in a university with a big football team.

    William Hyde

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bob Casanova@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jan 31 17:17:54 2023
    On Tue, 31 Jan 2023 14:24:54 -0800, the following appeared
    in talk.origins, posted by Mark Isaak
    <specimenNOSPAM@curioustaxon.omy.net>:

    On 1/30/23 8:06 PM, Bob Casanova wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Jan 2023 19:59:09 -0800 (PST), the following
    appeared in talk.origins, posted by William Hyde
    <wthyde1953@gmail.com>:

    On Monday, January 30, 2023 at 9:50:09 AM UTC-5, socrat...@gmail.com wrote: >>>> On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 3:50:07 PM UTC+2, IDentity wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 04:17:27 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 3:50:36 AM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 10:27:49 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, December 31, 2022 at 6:50:35 PM UTC+2, jillery wrote: >>>>>>>
    -----------
    Does a caterpillar become a butterfly for a "statistical" reason? >>>>>>>> ----------------------
    How many butterflies and caterpillars do mathematics?
    -------------
    What math do you use when you're hungry?
    ---------------
    Some count calories.
    How many calories do caterpillars burn to turn into butterflies?

    Start with two thousand caterpillars of the same species. Burn a thousand, see how much heat they
    give off. Wait for the next thousand to become butterflies, then burn them. Repeat.

    I think you *may* have neglected something in there... :-)

    That should work, provided you burn the first thousand just before they >pupate. Of course, that measures the calories consumed only during
    pupation. If you want to measure calories over the whole lifespan of
    the caterpillar, you must also measure the heat in the food they consume
    and the frass they generate.

    Pretty much my point about "something neglected"... :-)

    As I recall, an adult silk moth is a quarter or less of the size of the >caterpillar it came from. In that case, though, there have been
    centuries of domestic breeding to turn the calories into silk rather
    than into adult moths.
    --

    Bob C.

    "The most exciting phrase to hear in science,
    the one that heralds new discoveries, is not
    'Eureka!' but 'That's funny...'"

    - Isaac Asimov

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jillery@21:1/5 to socratus1944@gmail.com on Wed Feb 1 01:40:48 2023
    On Tue, 31 Jan 2023 00:33:08 -0800 (PST), israel socratus <socratus1944@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 6:00:10 AM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
    On Monday, January 30, 2023 at 9:50:09 AM UTC-5, socrat...@gmail.com wrote: >> > On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 3:50:07 PM UTC+2, IDentity wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 04:17:27 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 3:50:36 AM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 10:27:49 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, December 31, 2022 at 6:50:35 PM UTC+2, jillery wrote: >> > > >>
    -----------
    Does a caterpillar become a butterfly for a "statistical" reason? >> > > >> >----------------------
    How many butterflies and caterpillars do mathematics?
    -------------
    What math do you use when you're hungry?
    ---------------
    Some count calories.
    How many calories do caterpillars burn to turn into butterflies?
    Start with two thousand caterpillars of the same species. Burn a thousand, see how much heat they
    give off. Wait for the next thousand to become butterflies, then burn them. Repeat.

    William Hyde
    -------
    burning calories is an internal process, not an external one


    Do you understand that burning calories is a thermodynamic process,
    whether internal or external?

    --
    You're entitled to your own opinions.
    You're not entitled to your own facts.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lawyer Daggett@21:1/5 to William Hyde on Wed Feb 1 02:22:37 2023
    On Monday, January 30, 2023 at 11:00:10 PM UTC-5, William Hyde wrote:
    On Monday, January 30, 2023 at 9:50:09 AM UTC-5, socrat...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 3:50:07 PM UTC+2, IDentity wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 04:17:27 -0800 (PST), israel socratus <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 3:50:36 AM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 10:27:49 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, December 31, 2022 at 6:50:35 PM UTC+2, jillery wrote:

    -----------
    Does a caterpillar become a butterfly for a "statistical" reason?
    ----------------------
    How many butterflies and caterpillars do mathematics?
    -------------
    What math do you use when you're hungry?
    ---------------
    Some count calories.
    How many calories do caterpillars burn to turn into butterflies?
    Start with two thousand caterpillars of the same species. Burn a thousand, see how much heat they
    give off. Wait for the next thousand to become butterflies, then burn them. Repeat.

    William Hyde

    I was happy to see the correct answer.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From israel socratus@21:1/5 to jillery on Wed Feb 1 03:40:14 2023
    On Wednesday, February 1, 2023 at 8:45:10 AM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Tue, 31 Jan 2023 00:33:08 -0800 (PST), israel socratus <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 6:00:10 AM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
    On Monday, January 30, 2023 at 9:50:09 AM UTC-5, socrat...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 3:50:07 PM UTC+2, IDentity wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 04:17:27 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 3:50:36 AM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 10:27:49 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, December 31, 2022 at 6:50:35 PM UTC+2, jillery wrote: >> > > >>
    -----------
    Does a caterpillar become a butterfly for a "statistical" reason? >> > > >> >----------------------
    How many butterflies and caterpillars do mathematics?
    -------------
    What math do you use when you're hungry?
    ---------------
    Some count calories.
    How many calories do caterpillars burn to turn into butterflies?
    Start with two thousand caterpillars of the same species. Burn a thousand, see how much heat they
    give off. Wait for the next thousand to become butterflies, then burn them. Repeat.

    William Hyde
    -------
    burning calories is an internal process, not an external one
    Do you understand that burning calories is a thermodynamic process,
    whether internal or external?
    --
    ---------------
    thermodynamic process depends on physical state of system
    (internal- burning calories or external-burning two thousand caterpillars)
    and therefore has different result
    (depends on the function of pressure and temperature)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From =?UTF-8?B?w5bDtiBUaWli?=@21:1/5 to socrat...@gmail.com on Wed Feb 1 05:23:26 2023
    On Wednesday, 1 February 2023 at 13:45:10 UTC+2, socrat...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Wednesday, February 1, 2023 at 8:45:10 AM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Tue, 31 Jan 2023 00:33:08 -0800 (PST), israel socratus <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 6:00:10 AM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
    On Monday, January 30, 2023 at 9:50:09 AM UTC-5, socrat...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 3:50:07 PM UTC+2, IDentity wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 04:17:27 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 3:50:36 AM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 10:27:49 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, December 31, 2022 at 6:50:35 PM UTC+2, jillery wrote:

    -----------
    Does a caterpillar become a butterfly for a "statistical" reason?
    ----------------------
    How many butterflies and caterpillars do mathematics?
    -------------
    What math do you use when you're hungry?
    ---------------
    Some count calories.
    How many calories do caterpillars burn to turn into butterflies?
    Start with two thousand caterpillars of the same species. Burn a thousand, see how much heat they
    give off. Wait for the next thousand to become butterflies, then burn them. Repeat.

    William Hyde
    -------
    burning calories is an internal process, not an external one
    Do you understand that burning calories is a thermodynamic process,
    whether internal or external?
    --
    ---------------
    thermodynamic process depends on physical state of system
    (internal- burning calories or external-burning two thousand caterpillars) and therefore has different result
    (depends on the function of pressure and temperature)

    Energy that caterpillars use is mostly from burning blood sugar with clycolysis. The clycolysis can't get magically more chemical energy out
    of clucose than it contains so the experiment proposed was correct.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lawyer Daggett@21:1/5 to socrat...@gmail.com on Wed Feb 1 05:50:54 2023
    On Wednesday, February 1, 2023 at 6:45:10 AM UTC-5, socrat...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Wednesday, February 1, 2023 at 8:45:10 AM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Tue, 31 Jan 2023 00:33:08 -0800 (PST), israel socratus <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 6:00:10 AM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
    On Monday, January 30, 2023 at 9:50:09 AM UTC-5, socrat...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 3:50:07 PM UTC+2, IDentity wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 04:17:27 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 3:50:36 AM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 10:27:49 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, December 31, 2022 at 6:50:35 PM UTC+2, jillery wrote:

    -----------
    Does a caterpillar become a butterfly for a "statistical" reason?
    ----------------------
    How many butterflies and caterpillars do mathematics?
    -------------
    What math do you use when you're hungry?
    ---------------
    Some count calories.
    How many calories do caterpillars burn to turn into butterflies?
    Start with two thousand caterpillars of the same species. Burn a thousand, see how much heat they
    give off. Wait for the next thousand to become butterflies, then burn them. Repeat.

    William Hyde
    -------
    burning calories is an internal process, not an external one
    Do you understand that burning calories is a thermodynamic process,
    whether internal or external?
    --
    ---------------
    thermodynamic process depends on physical state of system
    (internal- burning calories or external-burning two thousand caterpillars) and therefore has different result
    (depends on the function of pressure and temperature)

    Look up thermodynamic cycle and pay attention to pathway independence.
    That's the way to understand why you are misunderstanding how to
    evaluate the state variables involved. The chemistry and/or physics involved
    is covered in a decent high school course in either discipline.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lawyer Daggett@21:1/5 to oot...@hot.ee on Wed Feb 1 06:02:50 2023
    On Wednesday, February 1, 2023 at 8:25:10 AM UTC-5, oot...@hot.ee wrote:
    On Wednesday, 1 February 2023 at 13:45:10 UTC+2, socrat...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Wednesday, February 1, 2023 at 8:45:10 AM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Tue, 31 Jan 2023 00:33:08 -0800 (PST), israel socratus <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 6:00:10 AM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
    On Monday, January 30, 2023 at 9:50:09 AM UTC-5, socrat...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 3:50:07 PM UTC+2, IDentity wrote: >> > > On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 04:17:27 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 3:50:36 AM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 10:27:49 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, December 31, 2022 at 6:50:35 PM UTC+2, jillery wrote:

    -----------
    Does a caterpillar become a butterfly for a "statistical" reason?
    ----------------------
    How many butterflies and caterpillars do mathematics?
    -------------
    What math do you use when you're hungry?
    ---------------
    Some count calories.
    How many calories do caterpillars burn to turn into butterflies?
    Start with two thousand caterpillars of the same species. Burn a thousand, see how much heat they
    give off. Wait for the next thousand to become butterflies, then burn them. Repeat.

    William Hyde
    -------
    burning calories is an internal process, not an external one
    Do you understand that burning calories is a thermodynamic process, whether internal or external?
    --
    ---------------
    thermodynamic process depends on physical state of system
    (internal- burning calories or external-burning two thousand caterpillars) and therefore has different result
    (depends on the function of pressure and temperature)

    Energy that caterpillars use is mostly from burning blood sugar with clycolysis. The clycolysis can't get magically more chemical energy out
    of clucose than it contains so the experiment proposed was correct.

    cylocose?

    By the way, a caterpillar preparing to pupate keeps most of its energy
    reserves as fat, not glucose or other sugars. Fat stores more energy
    per gram.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jillery@21:1/5 to All on Wed Feb 1 11:47:41 2023
    On Wed, 1 Feb 2023 05:23:26 -0800 (PST), Öö Tiib <ootiib@hot.ee>
    wrote:

    On Wednesday, 1 February 2023 at 13:45:10 UTC+2, socrat...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Wednesday, February 1, 2023 at 8:45:10 AM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Tue, 31 Jan 2023 00:33:08 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 6:00:10 AM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
    On Monday, January 30, 2023 at 9:50:09 AM UTC-5, socrat...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 3:50:07 PM UTC+2, IDentity wrote: >> > >> > > On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 04:17:27 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 3:50:36 AM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 10:27:49 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, December 31, 2022 at 6:50:35 PM UTC+2, jillery wrote:

    -----------
    Does a caterpillar become a butterfly for a "statistical" reason?
    ----------------------
    How many butterflies and caterpillars do mathematics?
    -------------
    What math do you use when you're hungry?
    ---------------
    Some count calories.
    How many calories do caterpillars burn to turn into butterflies?
    Start with two thousand caterpillars of the same species. Burn a thousand, see how much heat they
    give off. Wait for the next thousand to become butterflies, then burn them. Repeat.

    William Hyde
    -------
    burning calories is an internal process, not an external one
    Do you understand that burning calories is a thermodynamic process,
    whether internal or external?
    --
    ---------------
    thermodynamic process depends on physical state of system
    (internal- burning calories or external-burning two thousand caterpillars) >> and therefore has different result
    (depends on the function of pressure and temperature)

    Energy that caterpillars use is mostly from burning blood sugar with >clycolysis. The clycolysis can't get magically more chemical energy out
    of clucose than it contains so the experiment proposed was correct.


    Perhaps Socrates could use glucose to get a calorie, and clusose to
    get a clue 8-}

    --
    You're entitled to your own opinions.
    You're not entitled to your own facts.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jillery@21:1/5 to socratus1944@gmail.com on Wed Feb 1 12:04:22 2023
    On Wed, 1 Feb 2023 03:40:14 -0800 (PST), israel socratus <socratus1944@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Wednesday, February 1, 2023 at 8:45:10 AM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Tue, 31 Jan 2023 00:33:08 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 6:00:10 AM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote:
    On Monday, January 30, 2023 at 9:50:09 AM UTC-5, socrat...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 3:50:07 PM UTC+2, IDentity wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 04:17:27 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 3:50:36 AM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 10:27:49 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, December 31, 2022 at 6:50:35 PM UTC+2, jillery wrote:

    -----------
    Does a caterpillar become a butterfly for a "statistical" reason?
    ----------------------
    How many butterflies and caterpillars do mathematics?
    -------------
    What math do you use when you're hungry?
    ---------------
    Some count calories.
    How many calories do caterpillars burn to turn into butterflies?
    Start with two thousand caterpillars of the same species. Burn a thousand, see how much heat they
    give off. Wait for the next thousand to become butterflies, then burn them. Repeat.

    William Hyde
    -------
    burning calories is an internal process, not an external one
    Do you understand that burning calories is a thermodynamic process,
    whether internal or external?
    --
    ---------------
    thermodynamic process depends on physical state of system
    (internal- burning calories or external-burning two thousand caterpillars) >and therefore has different result
    (depends on the function of pressure and temperature)


    An internal combustion gasoline engine, an external combustion steam
    engine, a caterpillar burning glucose, a scientist burning 1000
    caterpillars, a scientist eating an apple, an apple turning brown on a
    shelf; all create heat by "burning" aka oxidation that can be counted
    in calories.

    --
    You're entitled to your own opinions.
    You're not entitled to your own facts.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Athel Cornish-Bowden@21:1/5 to All on Wed Feb 1 18:29:07 2023
    On 2023-02-01 13:23:26 +0000, Öö Tiib said:

    On Wednesday, 1 February 2023 at 13:45:10 UTC+2, socrat...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Wednesday, February 1, 2023 at 8:45:10 AM UTC+2, jillery wrote:
    On Tue, 31 Jan 2023 00:33:08 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Tuesday, January 31, 2023 at 6:00:10 AM UTC+2, William Hyde wrote: >>>>> On Monday, January 30, 2023 at 9:50:09 AM UTC-5, socrat...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Saturday, January 28, 2023 at 3:50:07 PM UTC+2, IDentity wrote: >>>>>>> On Sun, 1 Jan 2023 04:17:27 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, January 1, 2023 at 3:50:36 AM UTC+2, jillery wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Sat, 31 Dec 2022 10:27:49 -0800 (PST), israel socratus
    <socrat...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, December 31, 2022 at 6:50:35 PM UTC+2, jillery wrote: >>>>>>>>>
    -----------
    Does a caterpillar become a butterfly for a "statistical" reason? >>>>>>>>>> ----------------------
    How many butterflies and caterpillars do mathematics?
    -------------
    What math do you use when you're hungry?
    ---------------
    Some count calories.
    How many calories do caterpillars burn to turn into butterflies?
    Start with two thousand caterpillars of the same species. Burn a
    thousand, see how much heat they
    give off. Wait for the next thousand to become butterflies, then burn >>>>> them. Repeat.

    William Hyde
    -------
    burning calories is an internal process, not an external one
    Do you understand that burning calories is a thermodynamic process,
    whether internal or external?
    --
    ---------------
    thermodynamic process depends on physical state of system
    (internal- burning calories or external-burning two thousand caterpillars) >> and therefore has different result
    (depends on the function of pressure and temperature)

    Energy that caterpillars use is mostly from burning blood sugar with clycolysis.

    Not exactly. No oxygen is consumed in glycolysis. The burning comes
    later, in the tricarboxylate (Krebs) cycle.

    The clycolysis can't get magically more chemical energy out
    of clucose than it contains so the experiment proposed was correct.

    I was wondering if glucose was spelt with a c in Estonian, but
    according to Google Translate it isn't : glükoos

    --
    athel cb : Biochemical Evolution, Garland Science, 2016

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)