• Sunnis And The 12th Imam

    From David Amicus@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jan 14 17:07:04 2016
    I had thought that only the Shi'ites and then only the Twelvers had an interest in the 12th Imam.

    Across the street from me several years ago there was a kebab shop. The owner was an Afghani. He said that he was a descendant of Ali from a wife not Fatima. He had a great interest in Sufism. I forget now who but a contemporary.

    This shop owner said that he was a Sunni but he had a belief in the 12th Imam.

    Why would a Sunni be interested in the 12th Imam?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Yusuf B Gursey@21:1/5 to David Amicus on Fri Jan 15 06:42:22 2016
    On Friday, January 15, 2016 at 1:10:03 AM UTC+2, David Amicus wrote:
    I had thought that only the Shi'ites and then only the Twelvers had an interest in the 12th Imam.

    Across the street from me several years ago there was a kebab shop. The owner was an Afghani. He said that he was a descendant of Ali from a wife not Fatima. He had a great interest in Sufism. I forget now who but a contemporary.

    This shop owner said that he was a Sunni but he had a belief in the 12th Imam.

    Why would a Sunni be interested in the 12th Imam?

    Sufi orders are sometimes syncretic.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Yusuf B Gursey@21:1/5 to Fariduddien on Sun Jan 17 04:45:17 2016
    On Saturday, January 16, 2016 at 1:40:05 PM UTC+2, Fariduddien wrote:
    On Friday, January 15, 2016 at 12:50:06 PM UTC, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
    On Friday, January 15, 2016 at 1:10:03 AM UTC+2, David Amicus wrote:
    I had thought that only the Shi'ites and then only the Twelvers had an interest in the 12th Imam.

    Across the street from me several years ago there was a kebab shop. The owner was an Afghani. He said that he was a descendant of Ali from a wife not Fatima. He had a great interest in Sufism. I forget now who but a contemporary.

    This shop owner said that he was a Sunni but he had a belief in the 12th Imam.

    Why would a Sunni be interested in the 12th Imam?

    Sufi orders are sometimes syncretic.

    Salam,

    There are both Sunnis and Shi`ah in Afghanistan. I
    think the Shi`ah in Afghanistan are mostly those
    of the Hazara ethnic group.

    It is important for Sunnis to respect the Prophet's
    (s.a.w.) family, and of course, the Imams of Twelver
    Shi`ism were all his descendents (through Fatima,
    who was Ali's wife until her death).

    Some Sunnis (particularly among some Sufi groups)
    may interpret this as respecting the Imams of
    Twelver Shi`ism as descendents of the Prophet
    (s.a.w.).

    For example, there is a recording of the Khalwati
    (Halveti) tariqa in Turkey, who are Sunni,
    performing dhikr (remembrance of Allah) on the
    anniversary of the battle of Kerbala, where Husain,
    the grandson of the Prophet (s.a.w.), was killed.
    Husain is also considered by Twelver Shi`ah as
    the 3rd Imam.


    The event is remembered throughout Turkey by eating
    of a certain gruel said to have associated with the
    event as well as with Noah. Mosques have the names
    of Hasan and Husayn, after Allah, Muhammad and the
    four caliphs.

    Jafar as-Sadiq is respected and praised by many
    Sunni sources, and he is also considered by Twelver
    Shi`ah as the 6th Imam.

    However, I am not aware of Sunnis believing in the
    12th Imam as the Twelver Shi`ah do. Sunni Islam
    does believe in the coming of the Mahdi, but while
    there are clues in the hadiths, the exact identity
    of who the Mahdi will be is not known.

    Without knowing more, I think it is impossible to
    really know how your friend came to his belief.
    Possibly he was influenced by Shi`ah family or
    friends, that could be one possibility.

    As for syncretic Sufi groups, the Bektashi are
    sometimes considered to be such a group, but to my
    knowledge they are not really known in Afghanistan.
    They are known, to my knowledge, mainly in Albania
    and Turkey.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fariduddien@21:1/5 to Yusuf B Gursey on Sat Jan 16 05:38:35 2016
    On Friday, January 15, 2016 at 12:50:06 PM UTC, Yusuf B Gursey wrote:
    On Friday, January 15, 2016 at 1:10:03 AM UTC+2, David Amicus wrote:
    I had thought that only the Shi'ites and then only the Twelvers had an interest in the 12th Imam.

    Across the street from me several years ago there was a kebab shop. The owner was an Afghani. He said that he was a descendant of Ali from a wife not Fatima. He had a great interest in Sufism. I forget now who but a contemporary.

    This shop owner said that he was a Sunni but he had a belief in the 12th Imam.

    Why would a Sunni be interested in the 12th Imam?

    Sufi orders are sometimes syncretic.

    Salam,

    There are both Sunnis and Shi`ah in Afghanistan. I
    think the Shi`ah in Afghanistan are mostly those
    of the Hazara ethnic group.

    It is important for Sunnis to respect the Prophet's
    (s.a.w.) family, and of course, the Imams of Twelver
    Shi`ism were all his descendents (through Fatima,
    who was Ali's wife until her death).

    Some Sunnis (particularly among some Sufi groups)
    may interpret this as respecting the Imams of
    Twelver Shi`ism as descendents of the Prophet
    (s.a.w.).

    For example, there is a recording of the Khalwati
    (Halveti) tariqa in Turkey, who are Sunni,
    performing dhikr (remembrance of Allah) on the
    anniversary of the battle of Kerbala, where Husain,
    the grandson of the Prophet (s.a.w.), was killed.
    Husain is also considered by Twelver Shi`ah as
    the 3rd Imam.

    Jafar as-Sadiq is respected and praised by many
    Sunni sources, and he is also considered by Twelver
    Shi`ah as the 6th Imam.

    However, I am not aware of Sunnis believing in the
    12th Imam as the Twelver Shi`ah do. Sunni Islam
    does believe in the coming of the Mahdi, but while
    there are clues in the hadiths, the exact identity
    of who the Mahdi will be is not known.

    Without knowing more, I think it is impossible to
    really know how your friend came to his belief.
    Possibly he was influenced by Shi`ah family or
    friends, that could be one possibility.

    As for syncretic Sufi groups, the Bektashi are
    sometimes considered to be such a group, but to my
    knowledge they are not really known in Afghanistan.
    They are known, to my knowledge, mainly in Albania
    and Turkey.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)