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    From a425couple@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jun 7 11:19:38 2023
    XPost: soc.history.war.misc

    from https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/cambridge-universitys-anglo-saxon-history-department-decides-anglo-saxons-never-actually-existed/

    Cambridge University’s Anglo-Saxon History Department Decides
    Anglo-Saxons Never Actually Existed

    Statue of King Alfred The Great in Winchester, Hampshire, England(TonyBaggett/iStock/Getty Images)
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    By JEFFREY BLEHAR
    June 6, 2023 9:30 PM
    Listen to article

    Hwæt! News has just come down from the U.K. Telegraph that the venerable
    dons of the Cambridge University (est. 1209) Department of Anglo-Saxon,
    Norse and Celtic History — apparently suffering from a profound crisis
    of identity — will now be instructing their students that “Anglo-Saxons aren’t real.” Apparently, anti-racists at Cambridge have determined that the phrase smacks too much of “the myth of nationalism.”

    Britain being the multicultural melting pot it is, emphasizing its
    Anglo-Saxon roots now apparently seems as churlish as emphasizing its
    Norman French ones during the Napoleonic Wars. (The Welsh, Scots, and
    Irish are also purportedly not supposed to have ever “existed” as
    coherent ethnic groups under Cambridge’s new rubric, which will be news
    to my colleague Michael Brendan Dougherty at the very least.)

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    This alone suggests why the entire exercise is such insultingly
    ahistorical nonsense. First of all, nationalism is not a myth. While in
    its modern form — as a politically unifying force giving coherence to an internationally recognized state — it is certainly a creation of the
    19th century, the idea of ethnically or culturally coherent identity
    groups goes back, transparently, to the dawn of humanity. (The German
    word Deutsch literally descends from a proto-Indo-European root that functionally means “us people as distinct from them.”)

    It must be understood that the complexities of British identity are
    various and ongoing, and the idea of a “national identity” as one that binds together different races, native languages, or ethnicities is as
    old as . . . well, as old as the British Isles themselves. Once upon a
    time these islands were occupied by dark-skinned, blue-eyed
    hunter-gatherers. Then those were wiped out by neolithic Anatolian
    farmers. Then those were almost entirely genetically replaced by
    Indo-European horse-warriors, first presumably Celtic-speaking and then
    later (this time documented historically) by Germanic-speaking Anglo-Saxons.

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    Believe me, the cold recitation there doesn’t come close to
    approximating the human strife involved in these population movements. (Bloodshed? Human sacrifice? Let me suggest politely to you how an
    entire preexisting genetic substrate gets replaced wholesale: The answer
    is violent murder, systematic extinguishing of male bloodlines, and
    massive polygamy among male warrior tribal leaders. There’s a 99.9
    percent chance you’d have existed on the sharp-speared end of
    pre-civilized life, my friend.) And nobody cared back then, because
    nobody had time to care about anything except the material world in
    front of them — until the introduction of Christianity suggested another
    way.

    Nobody in Britain circa a.d. 630 understood racial or ethnic politics
    the way such things are understood now, or with the same moral valence.
    It was “my team” — usually defined as “my family, tribe, or war leader”
    — and while a shared language and culture weren’t fully required
    overlaps (e.g., any number of conglomerate Asian steppe-origin hordes
    like the Huns or Scythians), they were, for reasons obvious to human
    common sense, the most easily binding ones. It is fair to say that seventh-century Anglo Saxons and British Celts did not consider
    themselves fellow countrymen. The term “Welsh” is literally descended
    from the Anglo-Saxon name for the Romano-Brits they subjugated; Wælisc
    is a Germanic word for “foreigner” (one inherited from a Latin term for
    a continental Gaulish Celtic tribe, to give you some sense of how words traveled in this age). Relations between them were . . . harsh at first,
    and took centuries to improve, and are still iffy nowadays (any Brit understands exactly how much history has been elided here for American sensibilities). In the meantime, incidentally, those invading
    Anglo-Saxons were themselves pressed to near political extinction by Scandinavian invasions so vast that they ended up carving out an entire
    chunk of the island as a temporary sub-kingdom, contributed a few
    members to the English throne, and left an indelible mark upon the
    language (every time you use your skill to make an egg, tip a cap to a
    Viking). And I haven’t even mentioned the Norman French yet — 1066 and
    all that.

    At all points this nation was still a single cognizable thing, with a
    sense of itself. Later, with the incorporation of Wales and Scotland
    (and, temporarily at least, Ireland) it became British. The Anglo-Saxon component of it was no myth; it was a legally, culturally, and
    politically unified world imported from a foreign land but fused to the
    native soil, and thus particular in its own way. It was not Welsh, nor
    Irish, nor Scottish, nor Danish. When William the Conqueror invaded, his primary claim to legitimacy for the people he sought to rule was as an
    upholder of all Anglo-Saxon laws of King Edward the Confessor. On this fundamental basis, with Norman French imports, was English common law
    born. Of English common law was born American jurisprudence, and if
    you’re wondering why National Review is devoting this many words to an attempted revision of British history, well . . . we are conservatives.
    We properly understand our roots.

    What this points out most of all is the silliness of importing American politics, academic obsessions, and social-historical frameworks into the European context. The United States is as close to a “blank slate”
    nation as exists, only possible as a miraculous creation during a
    circumscribed historical era: founded explicitly on political principles
    rather than ethnic identities. The way in which those principles have
    failed to match our practice (from the treatment of Amerindians to the
    stain of African slavery to our half-hearted attempts at
    early-20th-century empire) are a uniquely American story, and those
    obsessions map incredibly poorly onto a land as old and ridden with
    history and blood as Europe. As the Telegraph article points out, most
    older British scholars of the era consider “the furore over the term ‘Anglo-Saxon’ [to be] an American import,” one which makes no sense on
    an island where none of the current inhabitants have anything whatsoever
    to do with ancient populations they not only subjugated but genetically exterminated almost outright during prehistory. (As I said, just ask
    Cheddar Man, or the guys who actually built Stonehenge.)

    The construction of national identity itself is remarkably historically contingent and often retrospective; the greatest literary work of the
    Old English/Anglo-Saxon period is Beowulf, an oral heroic poem whose
    survival (in one burnt copy) is pure happenstance and whose regional associations locate its origins far away in the Jutland that divides
    modern-day Denmark rather than the eastern coast of England, among whose descendants the poem was performed and preserved. Sir Gawain and the
    Green Knight, perhaps the finest and most quixotic piece of medieval
    English poetry, is itself a one-off fusion of northwestern Midlands
    Anglo Saxon poetics with Norman French chivalric traditions: The result
    is quintessentially English, just as Beowulf is English yet in a
    different, earlier way, and just as in later eras the works of
    Shakespeare and his successors become something more, something British.

    So while I can never object to the introduction of nuance into our
    discussions of national identity, cultural formation, and the fluidity
    of “ethnic groupings” — such details are the warp and woof of historical study, what makes it such a joy — the effort to graft immature American
    novo homus prejudices onto the complexities of European history and life-and-death struggles between uncivilized ancient populations is
    comically inapposite. Bluntly put, things were different back then. Say
    what you will about the French (and I have more to say than most; I’m
    still irked about the war in the Vendée), but they do not lack for
    equivalent self-confidence in their historical traditions. France is
    every bit the dog’s breakfast of ethnicities and languages and
    territorial disputes warred out over time as Great Britain is (or the
    United States, for that matter, and dear Lord do not inquire into
    Germany), but they at least are willing to admit it in a way Americans
    have always shied away from and the English — our elder siblings,
    enfeebled and taking their political cues as spoon-fed mush from us as
    Yank eldercare nurses — are now increasingly afraid to acknowledge as
    their founding strength.

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    JEFFREY BLEHAR is a National Review contributor living in Chicago. He is
    also the co-host of National Review’s POLITICAL BEATS podcast, which
    explores the great music of the modern era with guests from the
    political world happy to find something non-political to talk about. @esotericcd

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  • From The Horny Goat@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 13 01:07:54 2023
    On Wed, 7 Jun 2023 11:19:38 -0700, a425couple <a425couple@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    Hwt! News has just come down from the U.K. Telegraph that the venerable
    dons of the Cambridge University (est. 1209) Department of Anglo-Saxon,
    Norse and Celtic History apparently suffering from a profound crisis
    of identity will now be instructing their students that Anglo-Saxons >arent real. Apparently, anti-racists at Cambridge have determined that
    the phrase smacks too much of the myth of nationalism.

    Britain being the multicultural melting pot it is, emphasizing its >Anglo-Saxon roots now apparently seems as churlish as emphasizing its
    Norman French ones during the Napoleonic Wars. (The Welsh, Scots, and
    Irish are also purportedly not supposed to have ever existed as
    coherent ethnic groups under Cambridges new rubric, which will be news
    to my colleague Michael Brendan Dougherty at the very least.)

    It will be interesting to see how they 'spin' Kings Alfred, William of
    Normandy and Robert the Bruce!

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