1 Gerberga Comtesse d'Arles Est 1058 - Abt 1118 https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120775&tree=LEOAs you may or may not be aware, we discussed the topic of long matrilines earlier this year. In the thread, I came up with one 33- and one 34-generation line, neither of which matched the 37-generation line for Virginia Angela Cayzer on Genealogics. In
2 Aldonza|Douce|Dulcia de Gevaudan Heiress of Provence Aft 1092 - 1127
3 Berenguela of Barcelona Abt 1116 - 1149
4 Constance of Castile Aft 1140 - 1160
5 Alix de France 1160 - Aft 1218
6 Marie Comtesse de Ponthieu Abt 1199 - 1250
7 Jeanne de Dammartin Abt 1220 - 1279
8 Eleanor of Castile Abt 1241 - 1290
9 Joan of Acre 1272 - 1307
10 Margaret de Clare Abt 1294 - 1342
11 Margaret de Audley Abt 1322 - 1349
12 Beatrice Stafford Aft 1342 - 1415
13 Margaret de Ros - Bef 1415
14 Margaret Grey Abt 1399 - 1426
15 Margaret Bonville - Abt 1487
16 Joan Courtenay 1468 -
17 Cecily Carew 1507 -
18 Thomasine Kirkham 1532 -
19 Mary Southcott - Bef 24 Feb 1618 https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Southcote-7 https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00473403&tree=LEO
Leo's database for this line ends here.
20 Elizabeth Strode Abt. 1580 - Bef 16 May 1628 https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Strode-681
21 Ursula Speccot Bap 1620 - May 1698 https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Speccot-4
22 Mary Walrond Bap 1638 -
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Walrond-198
23 Ann Verman 1664 -
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Verman-3
24 Ann Trevanion Bap 1697 - May 1776 https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Trevanion-52
25 Anne Pyle/Pyll Bap 1727 - Feb 1804
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Pyll-6
26 Jane Greet Bap 1750 - Aft. 1828
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Greet-87
27 Mary Greet Tiddy Bap 1778 -
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Tiddy-68
28 Mary Burgess Bap 1799 - Feb 1886 https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Burgess-11664
29 Selina Ann Cundy Bap 1830 - 1919
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Cundy-753
30 Mary Jane Greenfield 1857 - 1936 https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Greenfield-1807
31a Mary Sarah Jane Glynn 1879 - 1949
32a Hilda Gertrude Oates 1906 - 1998
33a Joan Bourke 1938 - 2014
34a Living children
31b Teresa Glynn 1885 - 1965
32b Lydia Margaret Oates 1926 - 2013
33b Living children
31c Sarah Glynn 1895 -
32c Marie Christina Reid 1931 - 2011
33c Living children
31d Matilda Glynn 1897 - 1960
32d Priscilla Mary Gannon 1923 - 2005
33d Living children
I would like to give credit to Elizabeth Viney for generations 22-26.
I have added documentation on Wikitree and would be grateful if some other SGM members could check this line.
I'm not sure if the mother of Gerberga is confirmed so I haven't included her here.
Thanks
Charlene
1 Gerberga Comtesse d'Arles Est 1058 - Abt 1118 https://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00120775&tree=LEO
2 Aldonza|Douce|Dulcia de Gevaudan Heiress of Provence Aft 1092 - 1127
I wasn't sure if her mother was confirmed or not that's why didn't start with her. On Wikitree her parents have been marked as speculative citing MedLands.
http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/PROVENCE.htm#_ftnref348
Thank you for the confirmation.
So, although Genealogics has this line, it's problematic.
If you look at the entry for "Cecily Carew" you will see that Leo has cited *no sources*
That's a red flag. It probably means this is a legendary connection which has no support
William Courtenay d. 1512 and Cicely Cheney are recorded with a daughter Joan in the visitation of Devon in 1564.
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.c2524477&view=1up&seq=87&skin=2021
In Vivian's visitations of Devon 1531, 1564, & 1620 with additions, their daughter Joan Courtenay is recorded as the wife of William Beaumont.
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=yale.39002002213917&view=1up&seq=260&skin=2021
There is a William Beaumont d. 1454 who married Joan Courtenay.
On 23-Nov-21 3:10 PM, Charlene wrote:
I wasn't sure if her mother was confirmed or not that's why didn't
start with her. On Wikitree her parents have been marked as
speculative citing MedLands.
http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/PROVENCE.htm#_ftnref348
Thank you for the confirmation.
The parentage of Gerberge is not directly stated in a contemporary
source, but there is virtually no room for doubt that she must have been
the sister (in order to have become the heiress) of Bertran II who died
in 1090/94. His entire patrimony was given by Gerberge to her daughter
Dulcia on 1 February 112 and then confirmed to Ramon Berenguer III of Barcelona to whom Dulcia was married two days later. Stephania aka
Dulcia was described as Bertran II's mother in 1095 and she is the only
known wife of his father Geoffroy I, count of Arles & marquis of
Provence. Bertran's only child was a daughter Cecilia whose husband (a Trencavel viscount) was not on the spot and evidently not able, or
considered suitable, to obtain a share of the inheritance.
This may not seem absolutely water-tight, but it is appreciably more
solid than the circumstantial evidence we have for many women in their timeframe. I don't think it has been in doubt since Georges de
Manteyer's /La Provence du premier au douzième siècle/ (1908), and his
view was accepted without qualification by Jean-Pierre Poly in /La
Provence et la société féodale (879-1166)/ (1976).
On Tuesday, November 23, 2021 at 4:12:57 PM UTC-8, Charlene wrote:the visitation int he COllege of Arms, as it is taken from a manuscript in the Bodlean, but nonetheless, it looks to me like Vivian's compilation volume has created a chimera of two different Joans.
William Courtenay d. 1512 and Cicely Cheney are recorded with a daughter Joan in the visitation of Devon in 1564.
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.c2524477&view=1up&seq=87&skin=2021
In Vivian's visitations of Devon 1531, 1564, & 1620 with additions, their daughter Joan Courtenay is recorded as the wife of William Beaumont.
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=yale.39002002213917&view=1up&seq=260&skin=2021
There is a William Beaumont d. 1454 who married Joan Courtenay.Vivian may well be confused here. The 1564 visitation of Devon volume includes a Beamont pedigree that shows William Beaumont marrying Joan, eldest daughter of Sir Philip Courtenay. The pedigree in question may not have been in the original version of
taf
Thank you. I knew that section of the line would be problematic. I did have doubts.Brad Verity noted the incorrect placement of Joan Courtenay (m. Sir William Carew), as well as that of Joan Courtenay (m. William Beaumont) in a post here on 7 May 2012.
William Courtenay d. 1512 and Cicely Cheney are recorded with a daughter Joan in the visitation of Devon in 1564.
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.c2524477&view=1up&seq=87&skin=2021
In Vivian's visitations of Devon 1531, 1564, & 1620 with additions, their daughter Joan Courtenay is recorded as the wife of William Beaumont.
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=yale.39002002213917&view=1up&seq=260&skin=2021
There is a William Beaumont d. 1454 who married Joan Courtenay.
See A Treatise on the Law of Adulterine Bastardy https://books.google.com.au/books?id=DkBfAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA57#v=onepage&q&f=false She cannot be the same Joan Courtenay who was born in 1468 (if that's her correct birth date). That leaves it open for her being the Joan Courtenay (daughter of William Courtenay of Powderham) who married William Carew as in the Carew pedigree.
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.c2524477&view=1up&seq=50&skin=2021
Cicely Cheyne/Cheney's matrilineal line can be traced another 3 generations back.
Brad Verity noted the incorrect placement of Joan Courtenay (m. Sir William Carew), as well as that of Joan Courtenay (m. William Beaumont) in a post here on 7 May 2012.
https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/q1-cpCLHTZk/m/ZMkYjY8DcDIJ
Vivian's editions of both Cornwall and Devon are in error in the placement of both Joan Courtenays.
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