How more difficult would it be to drill through 4-5km of ice at -160 deg. C.
https://phys.org/news/2022-04-jupiter-moon-closer-surface-thought.html
On 24/04/2022 02:22, RichA wrote:
How more difficult would it be to drill through 4-5km of ice at -160 deg. C. >>
https://phys.org/news/2022-04-jupiter-moon-closer-surface-thought.html
If you don't care about being able to transmit a signal back out again
then being able to maintain a temperature above 1C and wait would
probably be good enough. The warmer it is the better rate of progress
but not too hot. Sort of thing a radioisotope thermal generator might be
good at - you could use the waste heat to soften the ice a bit and
counter rotating blades to cut into it.
Ice has considerable strength at cryogenic temperatures.
Relying on acoustic transducers for the probe to talk back to a surface >lander would be one way of doing it cheaply. Sterilising the probe is >essential just in case there really is something novel alive deep in the >Europan oceans.
Shades of ACC's 2010...
On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 14:02:56 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 24/04/2022 02:22, RichA wrote:
How more difficult would it be to drill through 4-5km of ice at -160 deg. C.
https://phys.org/news/2022-04-jupiter-moon-closer-surface-thought.html
If you don't care about being able to transmit a signal back out again
then being able to maintain a temperature above 1C and wait would
probably be good enough. The warmer it is the better rate of progress
but not too hot. Sort of thing a radioisotope thermal generator might be
good at - you could use the waste heat to soften the ice a bit and
counter rotating blades to cut into it.
Ice has considerable strength at cryogenic temperatures.
Relying on acoustic transducers for the probe to talk back to a surface
lander would be one way of doing it cheaply. Sterilising the probe is
essential just in case there really is something novel alive deep in the
Europan oceans.
Shades of ACC's 2010...
You'd also need to pump the meltwater back up to the surface, and keep
it from freezing on that trip... which might take quite a lot of
energy. Assuming you want to keep the channel open.
Or... maybe your probe carries a spool with a few kilometers of fiber
optic, and unrolls it as you go down, and just lets it freeze back in
behind it. That essentially gives you another instrument, as well,
since a fiber in the ice like this produces loads of seismic data.
How more difficult would it be to drill through 4-5km of ice at -160 deg. C.
https://phys.org/news/2022-04-jupiter-moon-closer-surface-thought.html
On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 14:02:56 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 24/04/2022 02:22, RichA wrote:
How more difficult would it be to drill through 4-5km of ice
at -160 deg. C.
https://phys.org/news/2022-04-jupiter-moon-closer-surface-thoug
ht.html
If you don't care about being able to transmit a signal back out
again then being able to maintain a temperature above 1C and
wait would probably be good enough. The warmer it is the better
rate of progress but not too hot. Sort of thing a radioisotope
thermal generator might be good at - you could use the waste
heat to soften the ice a bit and counter rotating blades to cut
into it.
Ice has considerable strength at cryogenic temperatures.
Relying on acoustic transducers for the probe to talk back to a
surface lander would be one way of doing it cheaply. Sterilising
the probe is essential just in case there really is something
novel alive deep in the Europan oceans.
Shades of ACC's 2010...
You'd also need to pump the meltwater back up to the surface,
and keep it from freezing on that trip... which might take quite
a lot of energy.
On 24/04/2022 15:10, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Sun, 24 Apr 2022 14:02:56 +0100, Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 24/04/2022 02:22, RichA wrote:
How more difficult would it be to drill through 4-5km of ice at -160 deg. C.
https://phys.org/news/2022-04-jupiter-moon-closer-surface-thought.html >>>
If you don't care about being able to transmit a signal back out again
then being able to maintain a temperature above 1C and wait would
probably be good enough. The warmer it is the better rate of progress
but not too hot. Sort of thing a radioisotope thermal generator might be >> good at - you could use the waste heat to soften the ice a bit and
counter rotating blades to cut into it.
Ice has considerable strength at cryogenic temperatures.
Relying on acoustic transducers for the probe to talk back to a surface
lander would be one way of doing it cheaply. Sterilising the probe is
essential just in case there really is something novel alive deep in the >> Europan oceans.
Shades of ACC's 2010...
You'd also need to pump the meltwater back up to the surface, and keepI was envisaging minimum energy solution which is allow the melt water
it from freezing on that trip... which might take quite a lot of
energy. Assuming you want to keep the channel open.
slush to freeze behind the probe.
On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 9:03:01 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
Ice has considerable strength at cryogenic temperatures.Water ice at cryogenic temperatures is almost as hard and tough as granite.
Ice has considerable strength at cryogenic temperatures.
On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 9:45:56 PM UTC-7, Scott Kozel wrote:
On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 9:03:01 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
Ice has considerable strength at cryogenic temperatures.
Water ice at cryogenic temperatures is almost as hard and tough as granite.
Actually, granite is not that hard!
Diamond coring drill goes through it like butter.
Done that, when through holes had be drilled into precision granite surface plate, because measuring instruments were mounted to it!
Ok, goodnight folks. lock.gif
This topic has obviously run its course.
Ok, goodnight folks. lock.gif
This topic has obviously run its course.
On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 10:58:42 AM UTC-4, fred k. engels® wrote:
Ok, goodnight folks. lock.gif
This topic has obviously run its course.
The chemical characteristics of water ice at cryogenic temperatures
is definitely on-topic.
On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 12:54:24 AM UTC-4, StarDust wrote:
On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 9:45:56 PM UTC-7, Scott Kozel wrote:
On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 9:03:01 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
Ice has considerable strength at cryogenic temperatures.
Water ice at cryogenic temperatures is almost as hard and tough as granite.
Actually, granite is not that hard!Granite is hard enough that it can be used as aggregate in concrete and asphalt and
Diamond coring drill goes through it like butter.
Done that, when through holes had be drilled into precision granite surface plate, because measuring instruments were mounted to it!
used to build highway pavement that can carry thousands of large trucks per day.
On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 7:58:42 AM UTC-7, fred k. engels® wrote:
Ok, goodnight folks. lock.gif
This topic has obviously run its course.
Who died and made you King?
On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 7:40:34 AM UTC-7, Scott Kozel wrote:
On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 12:54:24 AM UTC-4, StarDust wrote:
On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 9:45:56 PM UTC-7, Scott Kozel wrote:
On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 9:03:01 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
Ice has considerable strength at cryogenic temperatures.
Water ice at cryogenic temperatures is almost as hard and tough as granite.
Da!Actually, granite is not that hard!Granite is hard enough that it can be used as aggregate in concrete and asphalt and
Diamond coring drill goes through it like butter.
Done that, when through holes had be drilled into precision granite surface plate, because measuring instruments were mounted to it!
used to build highway pavement that can carry thousands of large trucks per day.
Is asphalt hard?
On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 11:13:17 PM UTC-4, StarDust wrote:
On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 7:40:34 AM UTC-7, Scott Kozel wrote:
On Monday, April 25, 2022 at 12:54:24 AM UTC-4, StarDust wrote:Da!
On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 9:45:56 PM UTC-7, Scott Kozel wrote:Granite is hard enough that it can be used as aggregate in concrete and asphalt and
On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 9:03:01 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
Ice has considerable strength at cryogenic temperatures.
Water ice at cryogenic temperatures is almost as hard and tough as granite.
Actually, granite is not that hard!
Diamond coring drill goes through it like butter.
Done that, when through holes had be drilled into precision granite surface plate, because measuring instruments were mounted to it!
used to build highway pavement that can carry thousands of large trucks per day.
Is asphalt hard?
Asphalt concrete is hard.
On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 9:45:56 PM UTC-7, Scott Kozel wrote:
On Sunday, April 24, 2022 at 9:03:01 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
Water ice at cryogenic temperatures is almost as hard and tough as granite.
Ice has considerable strength at cryogenic temperatures.
Actually, granite is not that hard!
Diamond coring drill goes through it like butter.
Done that, when through holes had be drilled into precision granite surface plate, because measuring instruments were mounted to it!
On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 4:20:56 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
On 27/04/2022 04:13, Scott Kozel wrote:
Asphalt concrete is hard.
Concrete is lot harder than Asphalt at STP in a Young's modulus sense.
https://www.slowtwitch.com/Training/Running/Concrete_or_Asphalt__4793.html
Once the road surface gets to 60+C then asphalt is little different to crushed gravel in wet tar and it tears apart under shear forces.
Happens sometimes even in the UK on the hottest sunny days.
I presume that tropical countries use a different higher melting point formulation for their asphalt and/or cast concrete slab roads.Asphalt concrete mix designs are in the 280 - 330 F (536-636 C) range for
production at the plant to create a molten material that can be transported to the job site.
60 C is 140 F and that would be rare if ever that a pavement got that hot.
On 27/04/2022 04:13, Scott Kozel wrote:
Asphalt concrete is hard.
Concrete is lot harder than Asphalt at STP in a Young's modulus sense.
https://www.slowtwitch.com/Training/Running/Concrete_or_Asphalt__4793.html
Once the road surface gets to 60+C then asphalt is little different to crushed gravel in wet tar and it tears apart under shear forces.
Happens sometimes even in the UK on the hottest sunny days.
I presume that tropical countries use a different higher melting point formulation for their asphalt and/or cast concrete slab roads.
On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 4:20:56 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
On 27/04/2022 04:13, Scott Kozel wrote:
Asphalt concrete is hard.
Concrete is lot harder than Asphalt at STP in a Young's modulus sense.
https://www.slowtwitch.com/Training/Running/Concrete_or_Asphalt__4793.html >>
Once the road surface gets to 60+C then asphalt is little different to
crushed gravel in wet tar and it tears apart under shear forces.
Happens sometimes even in the UK on the hottest sunny days.
I presume that tropical countries use a different higher melting point
formulation for their asphalt and/or cast concrete slab roads.
Asphalt concrete mix designs are in the 280 - 330 F (536-636 C) range for >production at the plant to create a molten material that can be transported >to the job site.
60 C is 140 F and that would be rare if ever that a pavement got that hot.
On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 19:39:41 -0700 (PDT), Scott Kozel
<koz...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 4:20:56 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
On 27/04/2022 04:13, Scott Kozel wrote:
Asphalt concrete is hard.
Concrete is lot harder than Asphalt at STP in a Young's modulus sense.
https://www.slowtwitch.com/Training/Running/Concrete_or_Asphalt__4793.html >>
Once the road surface gets to 60+C then asphalt is little different to
crushed gravel in wet tar and it tears apart under shear forces.
Happens sometimes even in the UK on the hottest sunny days.
I presume that tropical countries use a different higher melting point
formulation for their asphalt and/or cast concrete slab roads.
Asphalt concrete mix designs are in the 280 - 330 F (536-636 C) range for >production at the plant to create a molten material that can be transported >to the job site.
60 C is 140 F and that would be rare if ever that a pavement got that hot.
Asphalt commonly gets well over 140F on hot, sunny days. Fresh asphalt
in places like Phoenix can reach 180F. It's a big part of the urban
heat island effect.
On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 12:43:56 AM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 19:39:41 -0700 (PDT), Scott Kozel
<koz...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 4:20:56 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:Asphalt commonly gets well over 140F on hot, sunny days. Fresh asphalt
On 27/04/2022 04:13, Scott Kozel wrote:
Asphalt concrete is hard.
Concrete is lot harder than Asphalt at STP in a Young's modulus sense.
https://www.slowtwitch.com/Training/Running/Concrete_or_Asphalt__4793.html
Once the road surface gets to 60+C then asphalt is little different to
crushed gravel in wet tar and it tears apart under shear forces.
Happens sometimes even in the UK on the hottest sunny days.
I presume that tropical countries use a different higher melting point
formulation for their asphalt and/or cast concrete slab roads.
Asphalt concrete mix designs are in the 280 - 330 F (536-636 C) range for >> >production at the plant to create a molten material that can be transported >> >to the job site.
60 C is 140 F and that would be rare if ever that a pavement got that hot. >>
in places like Phoenix can reach 180F. It's a big part of the urban
heat island effect.
Well if the atmospheric temp is 115-120 F, and the Sun is at high elevation on a
clear day, the radiant heat the Sun could boost the pavement temp over 140 F.
I live in an area that occasionally reaches 100 F, and I have not yet seen an >asphalt pavement liquify.
On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 11:50:06 -0700 (PDT), Scott Kozel
<koz...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 12:43:56 AM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 19:39:41 -0700 (PDT), Scott Kozel
<koz...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 4:20:56 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
On 27/04/2022 04:13, Scott Kozel wrote:
Asphalt concrete is hard.
Concrete is lot harder than Asphalt at STP in a Young's modulus sense. >> >>
https://www.slowtwitch.com/Training/Running/Concrete_or_Asphalt__4793.html
Once the road surface gets to 60+C then asphalt is little different to >> >> crushed gravel in wet tar and it tears apart under shear forces.
Happens sometimes even in the UK on the hottest sunny days.
I presume that tropical countries use a different higher melting point >> >> formulation for their asphalt and/or cast concrete slab roads.
Asphalt concrete mix designs are in the 280 - 330 F (536-636 C) range for >> >production at the plant to create a molten material that can be transported
to the job site.
60 C is 140 F and that would be rare if ever that a pavement got that hot.
Asphalt commonly gets well over 140F on hot, sunny days. Fresh asphalt
in places like Phoenix can reach 180F. It's a big part of the urban
heat island effect.
Well if the atmospheric temp is 115-120 F, and the Sun is at high elevation on a
clear day, the radiant heat the Sun could boost the pavement temp over 140 F.
I live in an area that occasionally reaches 100 F, and I have not yet seen an
asphalt pavement liquify.
When I lived in California, on hot days you could pick off blobs of
tar out of the asphalt and manipulate it like chewing gum.
On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 4:29:33 PM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 11:50:06 -0700 (PDT), Scott Kozel
<koz...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 12:43:56 AM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote: >> >> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 19:39:41 -0700 (PDT), Scott Kozel
<koz...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 4:20:56 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
On 27/04/2022 04:13, Scott Kozel wrote:
Asphalt concrete is hard.
Concrete is lot harder than Asphalt at STP in a Young's modulus sense. >> >> >>
https://www.slowtwitch.com/Training/Running/Concrete_or_Asphalt__4793.html
Once the road surface gets to 60+C then asphalt is little different to >> >> >> crushed gravel in wet tar and it tears apart under shear forces.
Happens sometimes even in the UK on the hottest sunny days.
I presume that tropical countries use a different higher melting point >> >> >> formulation for their asphalt and/or cast concrete slab roads.
Asphalt concrete mix designs are in the 280 - 330 F (536-636 C) range for
production at the plant to create a molten material that can be transported
to the job site.
60 C is 140 F and that would be rare if ever that a pavement got that hot.
Asphalt commonly gets well over 140F on hot, sunny days. Fresh asphalt
in places like Phoenix can reach 180F. It's a big part of the urban
heat island effect.
Well if the atmospheric temp is 115-120 F, and the Sun is at high elevation on a
clear day, the radiant heat the Sun could boost the pavement temp over 140 F.
I live in an area that occasionally reaches 100 F, and I have not yet seen an
asphalt pavement liquify.
When I lived in California, on hot days you could pick off blobs of
tar out of the asphalt and manipulate it like chewing gum.
You mean like atmospheric temp is 115-120 F, and the Sun is at high elevation on a clear day?
On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 21:13:59 -0700 (PDT), Scott Kozel
<koz...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 4:29:33 PM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 11:50:06 -0700 (PDT), Scott Kozel
<koz...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 12:43:56 AM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote: >> >> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 19:39:41 -0700 (PDT), Scott Kozel
<koz...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 4:20:56 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote: >> >> >> On 27/04/2022 04:13, Scott Kozel wrote:
Asphalt concrete is hard.
Concrete is lot harder than Asphalt at STP in a Young's modulus sense.
https://www.slowtwitch.com/Training/Running/Concrete_or_Asphalt__4793.html
Once the road surface gets to 60+C then asphalt is little different to
crushed gravel in wet tar and it tears apart under shear forces.
Happens sometimes even in the UK on the hottest sunny days.
I presume that tropical countries use a different higher melting point
formulation for their asphalt and/or cast concrete slab roads.
Asphalt concrete mix designs are in the 280 - 330 F (536-636 C) range for
production at the plant to create a molten material that can be transported
to the job site.
60 C is 140 F and that would be rare if ever that a pavement got that hot.
Asphalt commonly gets well over 140F on hot, sunny days. Fresh asphalt >> >> in places like Phoenix can reach 180F. It's a big part of the urban
heat island effect.
Well if the atmospheric temp is 115-120 F, and the Sun is at high elevation on a
clear day, the radiant heat the Sun could boost the pavement temp over 140 F.
I live in an area that occasionally reaches 100 F, and I have not yet seen an
asphalt pavement liquify.
When I lived in California, on hot days you could pick off blobs of
tar out of the asphalt and manipulate it like chewing gum.
You mean like atmospheric temp is 115-120 F, and the Sun is at high elevation on a clear day?
I doubt it was that hot. But over 100 F, and mid-day, for sure.
On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 9:22:10 AM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 21:13:59 -0700 (PDT), Scott Kozel
<koz...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 4:29:33 PM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote: >> On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 11:50:06 -0700 (PDT), Scott Kozel
<koz...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 12:43:56 AM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 19:39:41 -0700 (PDT), Scott Kozel
<koz...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 4:20:56 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
On 27/04/2022 04:13, Scott Kozel wrote:
Asphalt concrete is hard.
Concrete is lot harder than Asphalt at STP in a Young's modulus sense.
https://www.slowtwitch.com/Training/Running/Concrete_or_Asphalt__4793.html
Once the road surface gets to 60+C then asphalt is little different to
crushed gravel in wet tar and it tears apart under shear forces. >> >> >> Happens sometimes even in the UK on the hottest sunny days.
I presume that tropical countries use a different higher melting point
formulation for their asphalt and/or cast concrete slab roads.
Asphalt concrete mix designs are in the 280 - 330 F (536-636 C) range for
production at the plant to create a molten material that can be transported
to the job site.
60 C is 140 F and that would be rare if ever that a pavement got that hot.
Asphalt commonly gets well over 140F on hot, sunny days. Fresh asphalt
in places like Phoenix can reach 180F. It's a big part of the urban >> >> heat island effect.
Well if the atmospheric temp is 115-120 F, and the Sun is at high elevation on a
clear day, the radiant heat the Sun could boost the pavement temp over 140 F.
I live in an area that occasionally reaches 100 F, and I have not yet seen an
asphalt pavement liquify.
When I lived in California, on hot days you could pick off blobs of
tar out of the asphalt and manipulate it like chewing gum.
You mean like atmospheric temp is 115-120 F, and the Sun is at high elevation on a clear day?
I doubt it was that hot. But over 100 F, and mid-day, for sure.It has been up to 105 F here, and I haven't seen any liquified asphalt pavement yet.
Concrete pavement has been known to expand and blow out.
On Saturday, April 30, 2022 at 9:22:10 AM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote:
On Fri, 29 Apr 2022 21:13:59 -0700 (PDT), Scott Kozel
<koz...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 4:29:33 PM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote: >>>> On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 11:50:06 -0700 (PDT), Scott Kozel
<koz...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Thursday, April 28, 2022 at 12:43:56 AM UTC-4, Chris L Peterson wrote: >>>>>> On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 19:39:41 -0700 (PDT), Scott Kozel
<koz...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, April 27, 2022 at 4:20:56 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote: >>>>>>>> On 27/04/2022 04:13, Scott Kozel wrote:
Asphalt concrete is hard.
Concrete is lot harder than Asphalt at STP in a Young's modulus sense. >>>>>>>>
https://www.slowtwitch.com/Training/Running/Concrete_or_Asphalt__4793.html
Once the road surface gets to 60+C then asphalt is little different to >>>>>>>> crushed gravel in wet tar and it tears apart under shear forces. >>>>>>>> Happens sometimes even in the UK on the hottest sunny days.
I presume that tropical countries use a different higher melting point >>>>>>>> formulation for their asphalt and/or cast concrete slab roads.
Asphalt concrete mix designs are in the 280 - 330 F (536-636 C) range for
production at the plant to create a molten material that can be transported
to the job site.
60 C is 140 F and that would be rare if ever that a pavement got that hot.
Asphalt commonly gets well over 140F on hot, sunny days. Fresh asphalt >>>>>> in places like Phoenix can reach 180F. It's a big part of the urban >>>>>> heat island effect.
Well if the atmospheric temp is 115-120 F, and the Sun is at high elevation on a
clear day, the radiant heat the Sun could boost the pavement temp over 140 F.
I live in an area that occasionally reaches 100 F, and I have not yet seen an
asphalt pavement liquify.
When I lived in California, on hot days you could pick off blobs of
tar out of the asphalt and manipulate it like chewing gum.
You mean like atmospheric temp is 115-120 F, and the Sun is at high elevation on a clear day?
I doubt it was that hot. But over 100 F, and mid-day, for sure.
It has been up to 105 F here, and I haven't seen any liquified asphalt pavement yet.
Concrete pavement has been known to expand and blow out.
On 01/05/2022 06:05, Scott Kozel wrote:
It has been up to 105 F here, and I haven't seen any liquified asphalt pavement yet.
It doesn't liquify as such but it no longer has any shear strength and
is torn apart by HGVs and agricultural vehicles in the mid afternoon
when the air and road temperature is hottest. It doesn't help that the
silage and harvest periods coincide with the hottest weather.
Ordinary cars don't usually do much damage by comparison unless they
brake hard or turn abruptly.
Air temperature in the UK seldom gets above 30C but when it does older
tarmac roads can still get globs of molten tar on and soften badly. Last
year was particularly bad (as was 2018 when the rail lines buckled too).
Concrete pavement has been known to expand and blow out.
Never seen that in the UK. There are a few very old bypass/motorways of
that concrete slab construction dating from the 1950's. Very noisy to
drive on since each slab joint generates a sharp noise.
On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 5:37:59 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
On 01/05/2022 06:05, Scott Kozel wrote:
It has been up to 105 F here, and I haven't seen any liquified asphalt pavement yet.
It doesn't liquify as such but it no longer has any shear strength and
is torn apart by HGVs and agricultural vehicles in the mid afternoon
when the air and road temperature is hottest. It doesn't help that the
silage and harvest periods coincide with the hottest weather.
Ordinary cars don't usually do much damage by comparison unless they
brake hard or turn abruptly.
Air temperature in the UK seldom gets above 30C but when it does older
tarmac roads can still get globs of molten tar on and soften badly. Last
year was particularly bad (as was 2018 when the rail lines buckled too).
87 F, not hot at all. Something must be wrong with the mix designs.
Concrete pavement has been known to expand and blow out.
Never seen that in the UK. There are a few very old bypass/motorways of
that concrete slab construction dating from the 1950's. Very noisy to
drive on since each slab joint generates a sharp noise.
Pretty rare here but it has happened, usually on the older pavements (1970s, 1980s).
On 02/05/2022 05:08, Scott Kozel wrote:
On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 5:37:59 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
On 01/05/2022 06:05, Scott Kozel wrote:
It has been up to 105 F here, and I haven't seen any liquified asphalt pavement yet.
It doesn't liquify as such but it no longer has any shear strength and
is torn apart by HGVs and agricultural vehicles in the mid afternoon
when the air and road temperature is hottest. It doesn't help that the
silage and harvest periods coincide with the hottest weather.
Ordinary cars don't usually do much damage by comparison unless they
brake hard or turn abruptly.
Air temperature in the UK seldom gets above 30C but when it does older
tarmac roads can still get globs of molten tar on and soften badly. Last >> year was particularly bad (as was 2018 when the rail lines buckled too).
87 F, not hot at all. Something must be wrong with the mix designs.
It isn't the air temperature that matters. It is the surface temperature
of the black tarmac road which can get too hot to touch and melts. It
really only takes a nice still day and a clear blue sky in the summer
months and after two or three days some tarmac roads will fail.
I don't doubt that some of it is due to global warming making summer temperatures higher than they have ever been and taking older roads
beyond their design expectations for the older formulation.
On Monday, May 2, 2022 at 5:49:32 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
On 02/05/2022 05:08, Scott Kozel wrote:
On Sunday, May 1, 2022 at 5:37:59 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
On 01/05/2022 06:05, Scott Kozel wrote:87 F, not hot at all. Something must be wrong with the mix designs.
It has been up to 105 F here, and I haven't seen any liquified asphalt pavement yet.
It doesn't liquify as such but it no longer has any shear strength and
is torn apart by HGVs and agricultural vehicles in the mid afternoon
when the air and road temperature is hottest. It doesn't help that the
silage and harvest periods coincide with the hottest weather.
Ordinary cars don't usually do much damage by comparison unless they
brake hard or turn abruptly.
Air temperature in the UK seldom gets above 30C but when it does older
tarmac roads can still get globs of molten tar on and soften badly. Last >> >> year was particularly bad (as was 2018 when the rail lines buckled too). >> >
It isn't the air temperature that matters. It is the surface temperature
of the black tarmac road which can get too hot to touch and melts. It
really only takes a nice still day and a clear blue sky in the summer
months and after two or three days some tarmac roads will fail.
I don't doubt that some of it is due to global warming making summer
temperatures higher than they have ever been and taking older roads
beyond their design expectations for the older formulation.
You mentioned 30 C (87F). Even over 100F here it does not do that. Surface >temp is a product of air temp and atmospheric clarity.
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