• 4 incredible mistakes in traditional PA

    From littoral.homo@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jan 13 09:08:16 2023
    - anthropocentrism: traditional PAs see everywhere human ("hominin") ancestors, never Afr.ape fossils: Plio-Pleist.Africa is full of human ancestors, but chimp & bonobo & gorilla ancestors came from the moon...
    - afrocentrism: these outdated PAs assume humans came from Africa, but Homo came from S-Asia, of course,
    - old PAs believe their ancestors ran over Afr.plains after antelopes: this is arguably the most stupid fantasy,
    - they even believe they became BP when they left the forest for the savanna, but google "aquarboreal",
    - they say only humans were BP - in fact, all Hominoidea had BP ancestors during the Mio-Pliocene (not for walking, but for wading, of coursse),
    - etc. (already >4...)

    That traditional PAs are wrong is forgivable, but what's much worse: they remain wrong + close their eyes for what is obvious.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JTEM is so reasonable@21:1/5 to littor...@gmail.com on Fri Jan 13 20:24:42 2023
    littor...@gmail.com wrote:

    - anthropocentrism: traditional PAs see everywhere human ("hominin") ancestors, never Afr.ape
    - fossils: Plio-Pleist.Africa is full of human ancestors, but chimp & bonobo & gorilla ancestors
    - came from the moon...

    Yeah. I've often argued that the safest bet is that we HAVE found them. They just don't look the
    way we want them to. If for no other reason, they are descended from bipedal ancestors.

    One of my favorite pet "Theories" is that humans created Chimps. I've said it often:

    The Chimp ancestor was wide spread, occupying more than one niche, but kept as one single
    species by the constant sharing of DNA -- enough to keep the selective pressure as much on
    the forest as any other environments. But as the Homo population grew & grew, as later
    Aquatic Ape groups pushed inland, they were not just out competed but became prey! So the
    only ancestral group to the Chimps to survive were in the forests, adapting to an arboreal
    lifestyle, escaping the Homo line...

    That's my favorite pet "Theory."




    -- --

    https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/706300143603007488

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From littoral.homo@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jan 14 07:34:15 2023
    - anthropocentrism: traditional PAs see everywhere human ("hominin") ancestors, never Afr.ape
    - fossils: Plio-Pleist.Africa is full of human ancestors, but chimp & bonobo & gorilla ancestors came from the moon...

    Yeah. I've often argued that the safest bet is that we HAVE found them. They just don't look the
    way we want them to. If for no other reason, they are descended from bipedal ancestors.

    Yes, all Hominoidea had bipedal ancestors (BP, not for running after kudus, but simply for wading in swamp forests, google e.g. "bonobo wading").

    Most fossils are not direct ancestors of living animals, but are shorter or longer extinct side-branches of the lines leading to extant animals.
    Anthropocentric PAs believe all apiths fossils ("BP") are closer relatives of Homo than of Pan of Gorilla: nonsense, of course, statistically & anatomically:
    1 Asian hominid species has all Pliocene hominid fossils in Africa?? and 4 African hominid spp have virtually 0?? :-DDD
    But indeed: which fossil hunter prefers to dig up an ape rather than a "human" fossil??
    In fact, Pliocene Homo was not even in Africa: retroviral data & comparative anatomy.


    One of my favorite pet "Theories" is that humans created Chimps. I've said it often:
    The Chimp ancestor was wide spread, occupying more than one niche, but kept as one single
    species by the constant sharing of DNA -- enough to keep the selective pressure as much on
    the forest as any other environments. But as the Homo population grew & grew, as later
    Aquatic Ape groups pushed inland, they were not just out competed but became prey! So the
    only ancestral group to the Chimps to survive were in the forests, adapting to an arboreal
    lifestyle, escaping the Homo line... That's my favorite pet "Theory."

    Not unlikely.
    In the same way, I'd think (mid-?late?-)Miocene aquarboreal pongids pushed hylobatids higher into the trees in SE.Asia:
    you know my view:
    Plate Tectonics & Hominoid Evolution (my 2022 book p.299-300):
    --25 Ma: India approaching S-Asia = island archipel fm + coastal forests: Catarrhini reaching these island became aquarboreal Hominoidea:
    vertical=bipedal waders in coastal forests, climbing arms overhead in the branches above the water:
    larger size, tail-loss, central spine, shorter lumbar spine (5), very broad thorax & sternum (Hominoidea=Latisternalia) & pelvis:
    = dorsal (rather than lateral scapulas) = lateral movements of arms+legs + arms overhead etc., google "aquarboreal" (term of Marcel Williams).
    --20 Ma: India further underneath Eurasia (Himalaya fm) split hylobatids (E) & other apes along N-Tethys coastal forests,
    --15 Ma: the Mesopotamian Seaway closure split sivapiths-pongids (E) & dryopiths-hominids (W),
    dryopiths (e.g. Trachilos BP footprints) died out <6 Ma (Messinian Salinity crisis 5.96–5.33 Ma, Zanclean mega-flood 5.33 Ma),
    only hominids s.s. in the (incipient) Red Sea survived: HPG:
    --8 Ma Gorilla followed the incipient N-Rift -> e.g. afarensis->boisei etc., HP at first remained in coastal forests of the Red Sea,
    --6–5 Ma, the Red Sea opened into the Gulf (Francesca Mansfield: caused by the Zanclean mega-flood 5.33 Ma?):
    - Pan went right -> E.Afr.coastal forests -> S-Rift -> africanus->robustus (//afarensis->boisei),
    - Homo went left -> S.Asian coasts -> diving (early-Pleist.?) = large brain, pachyosteosclerosis etc. = aq.ape s.s.

    Simple, no? :-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)