Plate tectonics: Indian approaching S-Asia first formed island archipels, plenty of coastal forests: the Catarrhini that reached these islands, the earliest Hominoidea, were/became aquarboreal (aqua=water, arbor=tree): climbing + surface-swimming + bipedal wading between trees (mangroves?) + climbing
Op zaterdag 5 november 2022 om 13:16:03 UTC+1 schreef littor...@gmail.com:and tests for a statistically appropriate model of molecular evolution.
(sorry, wrong button, sent too early)
Genomic data support the hominoid slowdown and an Early Oligocene estimate for the hominoid-cercopithecoid divergence
Michael E Steiper cs 2005 PNAS 101:17021-6 doi 10.1073/pnas.0407270101 Several lines of indirect evidence suggest: hominoids & cercopithecoids diverged c 23–25 Ma (h/c).
This range of dates has ... not been critically assessed on its own merits. Here we test the robusticity of this estimate with ≈150,000 base-pairs of orthologous DNA sequence data from 2 cercopiths & 2 hominoids (quartet analysis). This method incorporates 2 calibration points (one each within cercopithecoids & hominoids)
Most comparisons reject rate constancy, in favor of a model with 2 rates of evolution, supporting the “hominoid slowdown” hypothesis.like + surface-swimming + bipedal wading between trees (mangroves?) + climbing arms overhead. This explains the typical ape (vs monkey) body-form, e.g.
This model estimates the h/c divergence to range from 29.2 to 34.5 Ma, significantly older than most previous analyses:
h/c divergence dates of 23–25 Ma fall outside of the confidence intervals estimated:
as much as 1/3 of ape evolution has not been paleontologically sampled. Identifying stem cercopithecoids or hominoids from this period will be difficult:
derived features that define crown-catarrhines need not be present in early members of these lineages.
More sites that sample primate habitats from the Oligocene of Africa are needed to better understand early ape & OWM evolution.
IMO 34-29 Ma (Oligocene) is OK, but not the place: hylobatids & pongids live in SE.Asia.
Plate tectonics, e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr-yjSwQ4E4
India approaching S-Asia (c 40 Ma?) in the Tethys Ocean first formed island archipels, plenty of coastal forests: the Catarrhini that reached these islands, the earliest Hominoidea IMO, were/became aquarboreal (aqua=water, arbor=tree): climbing monkey-
- larger size (gibbon gestation period is still longer than expected for its size),sides of the closing seaway (Malta outcrop sampling & the Maldives IODP Site U1468) to constrain the evolution of past water-mass exchange between the present-day Med.Sea & Indian Ocean via the Mesopotamian Seaway. These data + box modeling results
- Hominoidea = Latisternalia ("broad sternum=breast-bone"): very broad thorax, esp.ventrally (sternum): this turns the scapulas from lateral to dorsal = arms (>legs) from ventral to lateral,
- centrally-placed lumbar & cervical spine (vs dorsally- in monkeys & most mammals, A.Schultz) suggests more vertical body-posture (BP wading + climbing),
- tail loss (very unexpected for arboreal mammals, but not for wading).
When India went further under S-Asia, this split lesser (E) & great (W) apes (c 25 Ma?): hylobatids along SE-Asia, great apes along the Tethys Sea-coasts.
Two-step closure of the Miocene Indian Ocean Gateway to the Mediterranean
Or M Bialik cs 2019 Scient.Rep.9,8842
The Tethys Ocean was compartmentalized into the Med.Sea & Indian Ocean early-Miocene, yet the exact nature & timing of this disconnection are not well understood. Here we present 2 new Neodymium*isotope records from isolated carbonate platforms on both
This hypothesis (incl. the importance of Plate Tectonics) is published in my new book "De Evolutie van de Mens - waarom wij rechtop lopen en kunnen spreken" ("Human Evolution - why we walk upright and can speak") Acad.Uitg. Utrecht NL 2021.-
Gibbons never wade(d) or sw(i/a/u)m or d(i/o)ve. Oops.
DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
Gibbons never wade(d) or sw(i/a/u)m or d(i/o)ve. Oops.Okay so if we pretend that you're not retarded, that means you are "Arguing" that gibbons are
THE basal ape... which, yeah, kind of means that you are retarded.
-- --
https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/700122004150517760
statistically appropriate model of molecular evolution)."Genomic data support the hominoid slowdown and an Early Oligocene estimate for the hominoid-cercopithecoid divergence"
Michael E Steiper cs 2005 PNAS 101:17021-6 doi 10.1073/pnas.0407270101 Several lines of indirect evidence suggest: hominoids & cercopithecoids diverged c 23–25 Ma (h/c).
This range of dates has ... not been critically assessed on its own merits.
Here we test the robusticity of this estimate with ≈150,000 base-pairs of orthologous DNA sequence data from 2 cercopiths & 2 hominoids (quartet analysis: 2 calibration points, one each within cercopithecoids & hominoids, and tests for a
monkey-like + surface-swimming + BP wading between trees (mangroves?) + climbing arms overhead. This explains the typical ape (vs monkey) body-form:Most comparisons reject rate constancy, in favor of a model with 2 rates of evolution, supporting “hominoid slowdown”.
This model estimates the h/c divergence to range from 29.2 to 34.5 Ma, significantly older than most previous analyses:
h/c divergence dates of 23–25 Ma fall outside of the confidence intervals estimated:
1/3 of ape evolution has not been paleontologically sampled.
Identifying stem-cercopithecoids or hominoids from this period will be difficult:
derived features that define crown-catarrhines need not be present in early members of these lineages.
More sites that sample primate habitats from Oligocene Africa are needed to better understand early ape & OWM evolution.
IMO 34-29 Ma (Oligocene) is OK, but not the place: hylobatids & pongids live in SE.Asia.
Plate tectonics, e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr-yjSwQ4E4
India approaching S-Asia (c 40 Ma?) in the Tethys Ocean first formed island archipels, plenty of coastal forests: the Catarrhini that reached these islands (the earliest Hominoidea IMO) were/became aquarboreal (aqua=water, arbor=tree): climbing
both sides of the closing seaway (Malta outcrop sampling & the Maldives IODP Site U1468) to constrain the evolution of past water-mass exchange between the present-day Med.Sea & Indian Ocean via the Mesopotamian Seaway. These data + box modeling results- larger size (gibbon gestation period is still longer than expected for its size),
- Hominoidea = Latisternalia ("broad sternum=breast-bone"): very broad thorax, esp.ventrally (sternum): this turns the scapulas from lateral to dorsal = arms (>legs) from ventral to lateral,
- centrally-placed lumbar & cervical spine (vs dorsally- in monkeys & most mammals, A.Schultz) suggests more vertical body-posture (BP wading + climbing),
- tail loss (very unexpected for arboreal mammals, but not for wading). When India went further under S-Asia, this split lesser (E) & great (W) apes (c 25 Ma?): hylobatids along SE-Asia, great apes along the Tethys Sea-coasts.
"Two-step closure of the Miocene Indian Ocean Gateway to the Mediterranean" Or M Bialik cs 2019 Scient.Rep.9,8842
The Tethys Ocean was compartmentalized into the Med.Sea & Indian Ocean early-Miocene, yet the exact nature & timing of this disconnection are not well understood. Here we present 2 new Neodymium*isotope records from isolated carbonate platforms on
This hypothesis (incl. the importance of Plate Tectonics) is published in my new book "De Evolutie van de Mens - waarom wij rechtop lopen en kunnen spreken" ("Human Evolution - why we walk upright and can speak") Acad.Uitg. Utrecht NL 2021.
Gibbons never wade(d) or sw(i/a/u)m or d(i/o)ve.
Op zondag 6 november 2022 om 01:49:02 UTC+1 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:statistically appropriate model of molecular evolution).
"Genomic data support the hominoid slowdown and an Early Oligocene estimate for the hominoid-cercopithecoid divergence"
Michael E Steiper cs 2005 PNAS 101:17021-6 doi 10.1073/pnas.0407270101 Several lines of indirect evidence suggest: hominoids & cercopithecoids diverged c 23–25 Ma (h/c).
This range of dates has ... not been critically assessed on its own merits.
Here we test the robusticity of this estimate with ≈150,000 base-pairs of orthologous DNA sequence data from 2 cercopiths & 2 hominoids (quartet analysis: 2 calibration points, one each within cercopithecoids & hominoids, and tests for a
monkey-like + surface-swimming + BP wading between trees (mangroves?) + climbing arms overhead. This explains the typical ape (vs monkey) body-form:Most comparisons reject rate constancy, in favor of a model with 2 rates of evolution, supporting “hominoid slowdown”.
This model estimates the h/c divergence to range from 29.2 to 34.5 Ma, significantly older than most previous analyses:
h/c divergence dates of 23–25 Ma fall outside of the confidence intervals estimated:
1/3 of ape evolution has not been paleontologically sampled.
Identifying stem-cercopithecoids or hominoids from this period will be difficult:
derived features that define crown-catarrhines need not be present in early members of these lineages.
More sites that sample primate habitats from Oligocene Africa are needed to better understand early ape & OWM evolution.
IMO 34-29 Ma (Oligocene) is OK, but not the place: hylobatids & pongids live in SE.Asia.
Plate tectonics, e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cr-yjSwQ4E4
India approaching S-Asia (c 40 Ma?) in the Tethys Ocean first formed island archipels, plenty of coastal forests: the Catarrhini that reached these islands (the earliest Hominoidea IMO) were/became aquarboreal (aqua=water, arbor=tree): climbing
both sides of the closing seaway (Malta outcrop sampling & the Maldives IODP Site U1468) to constrain the evolution of past water-mass exchange between the present-day Med.Sea & Indian Ocean via the Mesopotamian Seaway. These data + box modeling results- larger size (gibbon gestation period is still longer than expected for its size),
- Hominoidea = Latisternalia ("broad sternum=breast-bone"): very broad thorax, esp.ventrally (sternum): this turns the scapulas from lateral to dorsal = arms (>legs) from ventral to lateral,
- centrally-placed lumbar & cervical spine (vs dorsally- in monkeys & most mammals, A.Schultz) suggests more vertical body-posture (BP wading + climbing),
- tail loss (very unexpected for arboreal mammals, but not for wading). When India went further under S-Asia, this split lesser (E) & great (W) apes (c 25 Ma?): hylobatids along SE-Asia, great apes along the Tethys Sea-coasts.
"Two-step closure of the Miocene Indian Ocean Gateway to the Mediterranean" Or M Bialik cs 2019 Scient.Rep.9,8842
The Tethys Ocean was compartmentalized into the Med.Sea & Indian Ocean early-Miocene, yet the exact nature & timing of this disconnection are not well understood. Here we present 2 new Neodymium*isotope records from isolated carbonate platforms on
long gestation etc.: only ancestral aquarborealism can explain why this bauplan is unlike monkeys'. :-)Of course, thanks, my little boy, for confirming my view: as I said, hylobatids are not aquarboreal any more, forced higher into the trees by Miocene pongids, but they remained vertical (below-branch), no tail, broad thorax, centrally-placed spine,This hypothesis (incl. the importance of Plate Tectonics) is published in my new book "De Evolutie van de Mens - waarom wij rechtop lopen en kunnen spreken" ("Human Evolution - why we walk upright and can speak") Acad.Uitg. Utrecht NL 2021.Gibbons never wade(d) or sw(i/a/u)m or d(i/o)ve.
MV claims lowland gorillas wade extensively
some ridiculous liar:Insults, not answers, from MV, as always.
MV claims lowland gorillas wade extensivelydisgusting liar -
please keep running after your antelopes
On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 7:18:44 AM UTC-5, littor...@gmail.com wrote:
some ridiculous liar:Insults, not answers, from MV, as always.
MV claims lowland gorillas wade extensivelydisgusting liar -
please keep running after your antelopes
The truth dissolves the nonsense
Fact: Gibbons never
On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 5:08:45 PM UTC-5, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 7:18:44 AM UTC-5, littor...@gmail.com wrote:The bare chest of the gorilla is an inviting place for a thirsty mosquito. Gorillas are well known for slapping their chests.
some ridiculous liar:Insults, not answers, from MV, as always.
MV claims lowland gorillas wade extensivelydisgusting liar -
please keep running after your antelopes
But not while immersed, nor while wading, in bais.
Think about it. Thick leg fur, bare chest = not related to wading. Parsimony! Algis's hypothesis that humans evolved bare faces due to habitually sticking their faces in the water makes as much (non)sense as bare naked gorillas that wade and climb all day losing the fur coat.
On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 8:17:25 PM UTC-5, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:Here's MV's fiction: "Great apes lack underfur (vs hylobatids?): "
On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 5:08:45 PM UTC-5, DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:Waiting ...
On Monday, November 7, 2022 at 7:18:44 AM UTC-5, littor...@gmail.com wrote:The bare chest of the gorilla is an inviting place for a thirsty mosquito. Gorillas are well known for slapping their chests.
some ridiculous liar:Insults, not answers, from MV, as always.
MV claims lowland gorillas wade extensivelydisgusting liar -
please keep running after your antelopes
But not while immersed, nor while wading, in bais.
Think about it. Thick leg fur, bare chest = not related to wading. Parsimony!
Algis's hypothesis that humans evolved bare faces due to habitually sticking their faces in the water makes as much (non)sense as bare naked gorillas that wade and climb all day losing the fur coat.
As I've said before, primates never evolved underfur.
some idiot:No answer. MV lies more than a sea otter.
As I've said before, primates never evolved underfur.:-DDD
some idiot:
As I've said before, primates never evolved underfur.:-DDD
As I've said before, primates never evolved underfur.
:-DDD
"Chimps & gorillas are still born naked, they redevelop upperfur, but still have no underfur." MV
Still born naked??? Redevelop upperfur?? They still have no underfur? Primates never have underfur, but MV anticipates that chimps and gorillas will develop it?!! Why??
some idiot:
As I've said before, primates never evolved underfur.
the same idiot::-DDD
"Chimps & gorillas are still born naked, they redevelop upperfur, but still have no underfur." MVMy little little boy, you're becoming more & more childish.
Still born naked??? Redevelop upperfur?? They still have no underfur? Primates never have underfur, but MV anticipates that chimps and gorillas will develop it?!! Why??
Are you really so stupid that didn't understand??
English is not my mother tongue. https://www.zooborns.com/.a/6a010535647bf3970b019b00bb427b970d-popup
Chimps & gorillas are born naked, they soon grow upperfur, but no underfur. Okidoki, my little boy??
some ridiculous liar:
MV claims lowland gorillas wade extensively
disgusting liar -
please keep running after your antelopes
Insults, not answers, from MV, as always.
some ridiculous liar:
MV claims lowland gorillas wade extensively
disgusting liar -
please keep running after your antelopes
Insults, not answers, from MV, as always.2x disgusting liar.
Op dinsdag 15 november 2022 om 04:53:30 UTC+1 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
As a biologist, I ...
:-DDD
As a biologist, I ...
As a biologist, I ...
:-DDD
Graduated: '86 Bsc.
Employed: Phys lab UWisc.
Occupation: Naturalist, Forester (ret'd)
MV Biologist? Not on this planet?
MV Anthropologist? Not on this planet?
MV seems to prefer trolling more than researching?
On Tuesday, November 15, 2022 at 6:34:57 PM UTC-5, littor...@gmail.com wrote: >> Op dinsdag 15 november 2022 om 04:53:30 UTC+1 schreef DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves:
As a biologist, I ...
:-DDD
Graduated: '86 Bsc.
Employed: Phys lab UWisc.
Occupation: Naturalist, Forester (ret'd)
MV Biologist? Not on this planet?
MV Anthropologist? Not on this planet?
MV seems to prefer trolling more than researching?
somebody:
MV pretends to be an anthropologist (cultural or physical/biological
anthropology?), but doesn't have any degree in that field.
His so-called "Study Center for Anthropology" is a figment of the
imagination. It's not a research/scientific nor an
academic/educational institution in any formal sense.
MV is a fraud.
:-DDD
Pathetic: the *only* "agument" the kudu runners have...
My little little boy, grow up & think a *little* bit:
we have flat feet, no fur, thick SC fat, salty sweat, huge brains etc.etc. >Only complete idiots believe their Pleistocene ancestors ran after antelopes over African savannas!
Have you published >40 papers, in spite of boycotts by prejudiced (kudu running :-DDD) peer
reviewers, in Hum.Evol., New Scientist, Nature, Trends Ecol.Evol., Med.Hypoth. etc.??
MV pretends to be an anthropologist (cultural or physical/biological anthropology?), but doesn't have any degree in that field.
His so-called "Study Center for Anthropology" is a figment of the imagination. It's not a research/scientific nor an
academic/educational institution in any formal sense.
MV is a fraud.
MV pretends to be an anthropologist (cultural or physical/biological
anthropology?), but doesn't have any degree in that field.
His so-called "Study Center for Anthropology" is a figment of the
imagination. It's not a research/scientific nor an
academic/educational institution in any formal sense.
MV is a fraud.
:-DDD Pathetic: the *only* "agument" the kudu runners have...
My little little boy, grow up & think a *little* bit:
we have flat feet, no fur, thick SC fat, salty sweat, huge brains etc.etc. >Only complete idiots believe their Pleistocene ancestors ran after antelopes over African savannas!
Do you think Harvard University would give tenure to a complete idiot,
as a Professor of Biological Sciences?
https://scholar.harvard.edu/dlieberman/publications/endurance-running-and-evolution-homo
Have you published >40 papers, in spite of boycotts by prejudiced (kudu running :-DDD) peer
reviewers, in Hum.Evol., New Scientist, Nature, Trends Ecol.Evol., Med.Hypoth. etc.??
The only thing you ever published in Nature was a very short piece of scientific correspondence in response to a paper by Sinclair et al. in
1987, no original research.
https://sci-hub.se/10.1038/325305d0
The rest of your publications are marginal, with low impact/citation.
Plate tectonics: Indian approaching S-Asia first formed island archipels, plenty of coastal forests: the Catarrhini that reached these islands, the earliest Hominoidea, were/became aquarboreal (aqua=water, arbor=tree): climbing + surface-swimming + bipedal wading between trees (mangroves?) + climbing
Plate tectonics: Indian approaching S-Asia first formed island archipels, plenty of coastal forests: the Catarrhini that reached these islands, the earliest Hominoidea, were/became aquarboreal (aqua=water, arbor=tree): climbing + surface-swimming + bipedal wading between trees (mangroves?) + climbing
Such fantasies!!
Danuvius, Rudapithecus, Graecopithecus, Oranopithecus each had a unique trait shared with hominins. I think of them as a superspecies with local variations.
somebody:
MV pretends to be an anthropologist (cultural or physical/biological
anthropology?), but doesn't have any degree in that field.
His so-called "Study Center for Anthropology" is a figment of the
imagination. It's not a research/scientific nor an
academic/educational institution in any formal sense.
MV is a fraud.
:-DDD Pathetic: the *only* "agument" the kudu runners have...
My little little boy, grow up & think a *little* bit:
we have flat feet, no fur, thick SC fat, salty sweat, huge brains etc.etc. >> >Only complete idiots believe their Pleistocene ancestors ran after antelopes over African savannas!
Do you think Harvard University would give tenure to a complete idiot,
as a Professor of Biological Sciences?
Universities once thought the Earth was flat...
Some universities still believe their Pleist.ancestors ran after antelopes... :-DDD
https://scholar.harvard.edu/dlieberman/publications/endurance-running-and-evolution-homo
Ah, Lieberman?
somebody:Plate tectonics: Indian approaching S-Asia first formed island archipels,
plenty of coastal forests: the Catarrhini that reached these islands, the earliest Hominoidea, were/became aquarboreal (aqua=water, arbor=tree): climbing + surface-swimming + bipedal wading between trees (mangroves?) + climbing
Such fantasies!!
Yes,
- India is between hylobatids & pongids & early H.erectus in SE.Asia vs Pan & Gorilla in Africa,
- India was approaching Eurasia c 40 Ma = archipelagoes full of coastal forests,
- early Hominoida = aquarboreal (central spine = vertical body, tail loss, broad sternum & thorax, dorsal scapulae, long & lateral arms),
google our TREE paper "Aquarboreal Ancestors?".
Danuvius, Rudapithecus, Graecopithecus, Oranopithecus each had a unique trait shared with hominins. I think of them as a superspecies with local variations.:-DDD
Who cares what *you* think???
Of course these early great apes along the Tethys coasts were more humanlike e.g. vertical bipedally wading than later apes:
orthogrady, central spine, tail loss, broad sternum & thorax, dorsal scapulae, long & lateral arms.
Grow up. Your anthropocentrism is ridiculous.???
On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 09:06:04 -0800 (PST), "littor...@gmail.com" <littor...@gmail.com> wrote:
somebody:
MV pretends to be an anthropologist (cultural or physical/biological >> >> anthropology?), but doesn't have any degree in that field.
His so-called "Study Center for Anthropology" is a figment of the
imagination. It's not a research/scientific nor an
academic/educational institution in any formal sense.
MV is a fraud.
:-DDD Pathetic: the *only* "agument" the kudu runners have...
My little little boy, grow up & think a *little* bit:
we have flat feet, no fur, thick SC fat, salty sweat, huge brains etc.etc.
Only complete idiots believe their Pleistocene ancestors ran after antelopes over African savannas!
Do you think Harvard University would give tenure to a complete idiot,
as a Professor of Biological Sciences?
Universities once thought the Earth was flat...
Some universities still believe their Pleist.ancestors ran after antelopes... :-DDD
https://scholar.harvard.edu/dlieberman/publications/endurance-running-and-evolution-homo
Ah, Lieberman?You think I'm Lieberman?
I'm flattered.
So, which one of these do you think is the better walker/runner and
which one the better swimmer/diver?
https://ibb.co/ZcXHWjb
And of course we don't have flat feet, but uniquely double-arched
feet, with a medial longitudinal arch (MLA) and tranverse tarsal arch
(TTA) which provides stifness to the foot, so that it can function as
a lever during walking and running in both Australopithecus and Homo,
and unlike apes.
https://sci-hub.se/10.1038/s41586-020-2053-y
And then there's the elongated achilles tendon that stores elastic
energy.
https://anatomypubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ar.24387
All adaptations to walking/running rather than swimming/diving.
On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 10:42:15 AM UTC-5, Pandora wrote:
On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 09:06:04 -0800 (PST), "littor...@gmail.com"
<littor...@gmail.com> wrote:
somebody:You think I'm Lieberman?
MV pretends to be an anthropologist (cultural or physical/biological >> >> >> anthropology?), but doesn't have any degree in that field.
His so-called "Study Center for Anthropology" is a figment of the
imagination. It's not a research/scientific nor an
academic/educational institution in any formal sense.
MV is a fraud.
:-DDD Pathetic: the *only* "agument" the kudu runners have...
My little little boy, grow up & think a *little* bit:
we have flat feet, no fur, thick SC fat, salty sweat, huge brains etc.etc.
Only complete idiots believe their Pleistocene ancestors ran after antelopes over African savannas!
Do you think Harvard University would give tenure to a complete idiot,
as a Professor of Biological Sciences?
Universities once thought the Earth was flat...
Some universities still believe their Pleist.ancestors ran after antelopes... :-DDD
https://scholar.harvard.edu/dlieberman/publications/endurance-running-and-evolution-homo
Ah, Lieberman?
I'm flattered.
So, which one of these do you think is the better walker/runner and
which one the better swimmer/diver?
https://ibb.co/ZcXHWjb
And of course we don't have flat feet, but uniquely double-arched
feet, with a medial longitudinal arch (MLA) and tranverse tarsal arch
(TTA) which provides stifness to the foot, so that it can function as
a lever during walking and running in both Australopithecus and Homo,
and unlike apes.
https://sci-hub.se/10.1038/s41586-020-2053-y
And then there's the elongated achilles tendon that stores elastic
energy.
https://anatomypubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ar.24387
Gibbons & Homo indicate that great apes shortened their achilles, lower backs, legs
due to arboreal bowl nesting. Long achilles are plesiomorphic in hominoids. Chimps can
run faster than humans. Gibbons can walk bipedally and swing bimanually faster than chimps or gorillas.
All adaptations to walking/running rather than swimming/diving.
Waiting ...
MV pretends to be an anthropologist (cultural or physical/biological anthropology?), but doesn't have any degree in that field.
And of course we don't have flat feet, but uniquely double-arched
feet, with a medial longitudinal arch (MLA) and tranverse tarsal arch
(TTA) which provides stifness to the foot, so that it can function as
a lever during walking and running in both Australopithecus and Homo,
and unlike apes.
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 08:18:59 -0800 (PST), "DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves" <daud....@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 10:42:15 AM UTC-5, Pandora wrote:
On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 09:06:04 -0800 (PST), "littor...@gmail.com"
<littor...@gmail.com> wrote:
somebody:You think I'm Lieberman?
MV pretends to be an anthropologist (cultural or physical/biological
anthropology?), but doesn't have any degree in that field.
His so-called "Study Center for Anthropology" is a figment of the >> >> >> imagination. It's not a research/scientific nor an
academic/educational institution in any formal sense.
MV is a fraud.
:-DDD Pathetic: the *only* "agument" the kudu runners have...
My little little boy, grow up & think a *little* bit:
we have flat feet, no fur, thick SC fat, salty sweat, huge brains etc.etc.
Only complete idiots believe their Pleistocene ancestors ran after antelopes over African savannas!
Do you think Harvard University would give tenure to a complete idiot, >> >> as a Professor of Biological Sciences?
Universities once thought the Earth was flat...
Some universities still believe their Pleist.ancestors ran after antelopes... :-DDD
https://scholar.harvard.edu/dlieberman/publications/endurance-running-and-evolution-homo
Ah, Lieberman?
I'm flattered.
So, which one of these do you think is the better walker/runner and
which one the better swimmer/diver?
https://ibb.co/ZcXHWjb
And of course we don't have flat feet, but uniquely double-arched
feet, with a medial longitudinal arch (MLA) and tranverse tarsal arch
(TTA) which provides stifness to the foot, so that it can function as
a lever during walking and running in both Australopithecus and Homo,
and unlike apes.
https://sci-hub.se/10.1038/s41586-020-2053-y
And then there's the elongated achilles tendon that stores elastic
energy.
https://anatomypubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ar.24387
Gibbons & Homo indicate that great apes shortened their achilles, lower backs, legsSee:
due to arboreal bowl nesting. Long achilles are plesiomorphic in hominoids. Chimps can
run faster than humans. Gibbons can walk bipedally and swing bimanually faster than chimps or gorillas.
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspb.2018.0859
I disagree with the authors that a short-fibred gastrocnemius muscle
with a long Achilles tendon is ancestral for the Hominidae (great apes
+ Homo) and that "it seems most parsimonious that this ancestral
morphology was retained rather than re-acquired in the evolutionary
lineage leading to the habitually bipedal, terrestrial modern humans."
This hypothesis requires three independent convergent evolutionary
changes to a long-fibered gastrocnemius with a short Achilles tendon
in Pongo, Gorilla and Pan, whereas loss of the long Achilles tendon in
the common ancestor of Hominidae and subsequent re-acquirement in the lineage leading to Homo requires only two (one loss at the base of Hominidae, one re-acquirement after the split of Pan and Homo)
Two evolutionary character changes is more parsimonious than three.
All adaptations to walking/running rather than swimming/diving.
Pandora wrote:
MV pretends to be an anthropologist (cultural or physical/biological anthropology?), but doesn't have any degree in that field.So he doesn't have a degree in a fake science? He's not a pseudo intellectual? Wow. That's why he has more credibility than the ass
clowns with their savanna nonsense...
Oh! Almost forgot: Do the Google on "Fallacious Arguments." Try
to figure out which one(s) you just posted.
And don't be embarrassed. Sure you couldn't make the grade on a
high school debating team, not with a massive error like that, but
you're amongst friends. We won't think any less of you, and we
certainly won't admit it if we do.
Kisses.
-- --GIGO.
https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/701137037768753152
GIGO.
DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
GIGO.
I won't embarrass you by asking what you think you mean by
that, and what precisely you are referring to -- as if you know
-- so instead I'll just remind you to take you meds.
-- --GIGO.
https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/701137037768753152
DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves wrote:
GIGO.
GIGO.
Pandora wrote:
MV pretends to be an anthropologist (cultural or physical/biological
anthropology?), but doesn't have any degree in that field.
So he doesn't have a degree in a fake science? He's not a pseudo >intellectual?
On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 12:16:57 PM UTC-5, Pandora wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 08:18:59 -0800 (PST), "DD'eDeN aka
note/nickname/alas_my_loves" <daud....@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 10:42:15 AM UTC-5, Pandora wrote:See:
On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 09:06:04 -0800 (PST), "littor...@gmail.com"
<littor...@gmail.com> wrote:
somebody:You think I'm Lieberman?
MV pretends to be an anthropologist (cultural or physical/biological
anthropology?), but doesn't have any degree in that field.
His so-called "Study Center for Anthropology" is a figment of the >> >> >> >> imagination. It's not a research/scientific nor an
academic/educational institution in any formal sense.
MV is a fraud.
:-DDD Pathetic: the *only* "agument" the kudu runners have...
My little little boy, grow up & think a *little* bit:
we have flat feet, no fur, thick SC fat, salty sweat, huge brains etc.etc.
Only complete idiots believe their Pleistocene ancestors ran after antelopes over African savannas!
Do you think Harvard University would give tenure to a complete idiot, >> >> >> as a Professor of Biological Sciences?
Universities once thought the Earth was flat...
Some universities still believe their Pleist.ancestors ran after antelopes... :-DDD
https://scholar.harvard.edu/dlieberman/publications/endurance-running-and-evolution-homo
Ah, Lieberman?
I'm flattered.
So, which one of these do you think is the better walker/runner and
which one the better swimmer/diver?
https://ibb.co/ZcXHWjb
And of course we don't have flat feet, but uniquely double-arched
feet, with a medial longitudinal arch (MLA) and tranverse tarsal arch
(TTA) which provides stifness to the foot, so that it can function as
a lever during walking and running in both Australopithecus and Homo,
and unlike apes.
https://sci-hub.se/10.1038/s41586-020-2053-y
And then there's the elongated achilles tendon that stores elastic
energy.
https://anatomypubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ar.24387
Gibbons & Homo indicate that great apes shortened their achilles, lower backs, legs
due to arboreal bowl nesting. Long achilles are plesiomorphic in hominoids. Chimps can
run faster than humans. Gibbons can walk bipedally and swing bimanually faster than chimps or gorillas.
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspb.2018.0859
I disagree with the authors that a short-fibred gastrocnemius muscle
with a long Achilles tendon is ancestral for the Hominidae (great apes
+ Homo) and that "it seems most parsimonious that this ancestral
morphology was retained rather than re-acquired in the evolutionary
lineage leading to the habitually bipedal, terrestrial modern humans."
This hypothesis requires three independent convergent evolutionary
changes to a long-fibered gastrocnemius with a short Achilles tendon
in Pongo, Gorilla and Pan, whereas loss of the long Achilles tendon in
the common ancestor of Hominidae and subsequent re-acquirement in the
lineage leading to Homo requires only two (one loss at the base of
Hominidae, one re-acquirement after the split of Pan and Homo)
Two evolutionary character changes is more parsimonious than three.
All adaptations to walking/running rather than swimming/diving.
OWMonkeys, gibbons and Homo share a singular trait: none sleep in arboreal bowl nests.
That is why all retain the long achilles tendon. Modern great apes share a singular trait, all
sleep in constructed arboreal bowl nests. That is why all independently evolved shortened achilles tendon.
The article cited, and your claim, both ignore this reality, as blindly as the mermaids and marathoners
that never sleep but just keep going and going and going like Energizer bunnies.
somebody:
And of course we don't have flat feet, but uniquely double-arched
feet, with a medial longitudinal arch (MLA) and tranverse tarsal arch
(TTA) which provides stifness to the foot, so that it can function as
a lever during walking and running in both Australopithecus and Homo,
and unlike apes.
And such idiots call themselves "anthropologist"... :-DDD
Only incredible imbeciles believe human feet were originally made for running:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 15:11:48 -0800 (PST), "DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves" <daud....@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 12:16:57 PM UTC-5, Pandora wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 08:18:59 -0800 (PST), "DD'eDeN aka
note/nickname/alas_my_loves" <daud....@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 10:42:15 AM UTC-5, Pandora wrote:See:
On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 09:06:04 -0800 (PST), "littor...@gmail.com"
<littor...@gmail.com> wrote:
somebody:You think I'm Lieberman?
MV pretends to be an anthropologist (cultural or physical/biological
anthropology?), but doesn't have any degree in that field.
His so-called "Study Center for Anthropology" is a figment of the >> >> >> >> imagination. It's not a research/scientific nor an
academic/educational institution in any formal sense.
MV is a fraud.
:-DDD Pathetic: the *only* "agument" the kudu runners have...
My little little boy, grow up & think a *little* bit:
we have flat feet, no fur, thick SC fat, salty sweat, huge brains etc.etc.
Only complete idiots believe their Pleistocene ancestors ran after antelopes over African savannas!
Do you think Harvard University would give tenure to a complete idiot,
as a Professor of Biological Sciences?
Universities once thought the Earth was flat...
Some universities still believe their Pleist.ancestors ran after antelopes... :-DDD
https://scholar.harvard.edu/dlieberman/publications/endurance-running-and-evolution-homo
Ah, Lieberman?
I'm flattered.
So, which one of these do you think is the better walker/runner and
which one the better swimmer/diver?
https://ibb.co/ZcXHWjb
And of course we don't have flat feet, but uniquely double-arched
feet, with a medial longitudinal arch (MLA) and tranverse tarsal arch >> >> (TTA) which provides stifness to the foot, so that it can function as >> >> a lever during walking and running in both Australopithecus and Homo, >> >> and unlike apes.
https://sci-hub.se/10.1038/s41586-020-2053-y
And then there's the elongated achilles tendon that stores elastic
energy.
https://anatomypubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ar.24387
Gibbons & Homo indicate that great apes shortened their achilles, lower backs, legs
due to arboreal bowl nesting. Long achilles are plesiomorphic in hominoids. Chimps can
run faster than humans. Gibbons can walk bipedally and swing bimanually faster than chimps or gorillas.
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspb.2018.0859
I disagree with the authors that a short-fibred gastrocnemius muscle
with a long Achilles tendon is ancestral for the Hominidae (great apes
+ Homo) and that "it seems most parsimonious that this ancestral
morphology was retained rather than re-acquired in the evolutionary
lineage leading to the habitually bipedal, terrestrial modern humans."
This hypothesis requires three independent convergent evolutionary
changes to a long-fibered gastrocnemius with a short Achilles tendon
in Pongo, Gorilla and Pan, whereas loss of the long Achilles tendon in
the common ancestor of Hominidae and subsequent re-acquirement in the
lineage leading to Homo requires only two (one loss at the base of
Hominidae, one re-acquirement after the split of Pan and Homo)
Two evolutionary character changes is more parsimonious than three.
All adaptations to walking/running rather than swimming/diving.
OWMonkeys, gibbons and Homo share a singular trait: none sleep in arboreal bowl nests.Don't mistake a causal hypothesis for a phylogenetic one.
That is why all retain the long achilles tendon. Modern [*arboreal*] great apes share a singular trait, all
sleep in constructed arboreal bowl nests. That is why [*how*] all independently evolved shortened achilles tendon.
It could well be that arboreal nest construction was acquired once at
the base of Hominidae and later lost in Homo.
still more parsimonious than three times independent origin in Pongo, Gorilla, and Pan.
The article cited, and your claim, both ignore this reality, as blindly as the mermaids and marathonersYou're comparing me to the mermaids, while all I do is propose an alternative, more parsimonious, hypothesis based on a well-established phylogeny? Thanks.
that never sleep but just keep going and going and going like Energizer bunnies.
On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 6:33:39 AM UTC-5, Pandora wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 15:11:48 -0800 (PST), "DD'eDeN aka
note/nickname/alas_my_loves" <daud....@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 12:16:57 PM UTC-5, Pandora wrote:Don't mistake a causal hypothesis for a phylogenetic one.
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 08:18:59 -0800 (PST), "DD'eDeN aka
note/nickname/alas_my_loves" <daud....@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 10:42:15 AM UTC-5, Pandora wrote:See:
On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 09:06:04 -0800 (PST), "littor...@gmail.com"
<littor...@gmail.com> wrote:
somebody:You think I'm Lieberman?
MV pretends to be an anthropologist (cultural or physical/biological
anthropology?), but doesn't have any degree in that field.
His so-called "Study Center for Anthropology" is a figment of the
imagination. It's not a research/scientific nor an
academic/educational institution in any formal sense.
MV is a fraud.
:-DDD Pathetic: the *only* "agument" the kudu runners have...
My little little boy, grow up & think a *little* bit:
we have flat feet, no fur, thick SC fat, salty sweat, huge brains etc.etc.
Only complete idiots believe their Pleistocene ancestors ran after antelopes over African savannas!
Do you think Harvard University would give tenure to a complete idiot,
as a Professor of Biological Sciences?
Universities once thought the Earth was flat...
Some universities still believe their Pleist.ancestors ran after antelopes... :-DDD
https://scholar.harvard.edu/dlieberman/publications/endurance-running-and-evolution-homo
Ah, Lieberman?
I'm flattered.
So, which one of these do you think is the better walker/runner and
which one the better swimmer/diver?
https://ibb.co/ZcXHWjb
And of course we don't have flat feet, but uniquely double-arched
feet, with a medial longitudinal arch (MLA) and tranverse tarsal arch >> >> >> (TTA) which provides stifness to the foot, so that it can function as >> >> >> a lever during walking and running in both Australopithecus and Homo, >> >> >> and unlike apes.
https://sci-hub.se/10.1038/s41586-020-2053-y
And then there's the elongated achilles tendon that stores elastic
energy.
https://anatomypubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ar.24387
Gibbons & Homo indicate that great apes shortened their achilles, lower backs, legs
due to arboreal bowl nesting. Long achilles are plesiomorphic in hominoids. Chimps can
run faster than humans. Gibbons can walk bipedally and swing bimanually faster than chimps or gorillas.
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspb.2018.0859
I disagree with the authors that a short-fibred gastrocnemius muscle
with a long Achilles tendon is ancestral for the Hominidae (great apes
+ Homo) and that "it seems most parsimonious that this ancestral
morphology was retained rather than re-acquired in the evolutionary
lineage leading to the habitually bipedal, terrestrial modern humans."
This hypothesis requires three independent convergent evolutionary
changes to a long-fibered gastrocnemius with a short Achilles tendon
in Pongo, Gorilla and Pan, whereas loss of the long Achilles tendon in
the common ancestor of Hominidae and subsequent re-acquirement in the
lineage leading to Homo requires only two (one loss at the base of
Hominidae, one re-acquirement after the split of Pan and Homo)
Two evolutionary character changes is more parsimonious than three.
All adaptations to walking/running rather than swimming/diving.
OWMonkeys, gibbons and Homo share a singular trait: none sleep in arboreal bowl nests.
That is why all retain the long achilles tendon. Modern [*arboreal*] great apes share a singular trait, all
sleep in constructed arboreal bowl nests. That is why [*how*] all independently evolved shortened achilles tendon.
Arboreal birds build arboreal bowl nests.
It could well be that arboreal nest construction was acquired once at
the base of Hominidae and later lost in Homo.
Not lost, but ground-adapted, portable & invertable. Homo never evolved the shortened lower back,
short achilles short-leg long-arm form of all extant arboreal bowl-constructing great apes, which * the LCA P/H could not have had *.
One gain and one loss is
still more parsimonious than three times independent origin in Pongo,
Gorilla, and Pan.
No, cf lower back shortening *independently* in each, while Homo, hylobatids & OWMonkeys retain long lower back.
Arboreal great apes preferentially inhabit swamp forests & murky river forests; hylobatids
& Homo preferentially inhabit uplands with moving and/or clear water.
The article cited, and your claim, both ignore this reality, as blindly as the mermaids and marathonersYou're comparing me to the mermaids, while all I do is propose an
that never sleep but just keep going and going and going like Energizer bunnies.
alternative, more parsimonious, hypothesis based on a well-established
phylogeny? Thanks.
Comparing strawman to strawman.
On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 04:33:43 -0800 (PST), "DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves" <daud....@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 6:33:39 AM UTC-5, Pandora wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 15:11:48 -0800 (PST), "DD'eDeN aka
note/nickname/alas_my_loves" <daud....@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 12:16:57 PM UTC-5, Pandora wrote:Don't mistake a causal hypothesis for a phylogenetic one.
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 08:18:59 -0800 (PST), "DD'eDeN aka
note/nickname/alas_my_loves" <daud....@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 10:42:15 AM UTC-5, Pandora wrote: >> >> >> On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 09:06:04 -0800 (PST), "littor...@gmail.com"See:
<littor...@gmail.com> wrote:
somebody:You think I'm Lieberman?
MV pretends to be an anthropologist (cultural or physical/biological
anthropology?), but doesn't have any degree in that field.
His so-called "Study Center for Anthropology" is a figment of the
imagination. It's not a research/scientific nor an
academic/educational institution in any formal sense.
MV is a fraud.
:-DDD Pathetic: the *only* "agument" the kudu runners have... >> >> >> >> >My little little boy, grow up & think a *little* bit:
we have flat feet, no fur, thick SC fat, salty sweat, huge brains etc.etc.
Only complete idiots believe their Pleistocene ancestors ran after antelopes over African savannas!
Do you think Harvard University would give tenure to a complete idiot,
as a Professor of Biological Sciences?
Universities once thought the Earth was flat...
Some universities still believe their Pleist.ancestors ran after antelopes... :-DDD
https://scholar.harvard.edu/dlieberman/publications/endurance-running-and-evolution-homo
Ah, Lieberman?
I'm flattered.
So, which one of these do you think is the better walker/runner and >> >> >> which one the better swimmer/diver?
https://ibb.co/ZcXHWjb
And of course we don't have flat feet, but uniquely double-arched >> >> >> feet, with a medial longitudinal arch (MLA) and tranverse tarsal arch
(TTA) which provides stifness to the foot, so that it can function as
a lever during walking and running in both Australopithecus and Homo,
and unlike apes.
https://sci-hub.se/10.1038/s41586-020-2053-y
And then there's the elongated achilles tendon that stores elastic >> >> >> energy.
https://anatomypubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ar.24387
Gibbons & Homo indicate that great apes shortened their achilles, lower backs, legs
due to arboreal bowl nesting. Long achilles are plesiomorphic in hominoids. Chimps can
run faster than humans. Gibbons can walk bipedally and swing bimanually faster than chimps or gorillas.
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspb.2018.0859
I disagree with the authors that a short-fibred gastrocnemius muscle >> >> with a long Achilles tendon is ancestral for the Hominidae (great apes >> >> + Homo) and that "it seems most parsimonious that this ancestral
morphology was retained rather than re-acquired in the evolutionary
lineage leading to the habitually bipedal, terrestrial modern humans." >> >> This hypothesis requires three independent convergent evolutionary
changes to a long-fibered gastrocnemius with a short Achilles tendon >> >> in Pongo, Gorilla and Pan, whereas loss of the long Achilles tendon in >> >> the common ancestor of Hominidae and subsequent re-acquirement in the >> >> lineage leading to Homo requires only two (one loss at the base of
Hominidae, one re-acquirement after the split of Pan and Homo)
Two evolutionary character changes is more parsimonious than three.
All adaptations to walking/running rather than swimming/diving.
OWMonkeys, gibbons and Homo share a singular trait: none sleep in arboreal bowl nests.
That is why all retain the long achilles tendon. Modern [*arboreal*] great apes share a singular trait, all
sleep in constructed arboreal bowl nests. That is why [*how*] all independently evolved shortened achilles tendon.
Arboreal birds build arboreal bowl nests.Irrelevant. Birds are not even primates and build nests in many forms. https://www.birdnote.org/sites/default/files/pileated_woodpecker_at_nest_hole_-_may_5_2016_1446-resize.jpg
It could well be that arboreal nest construction was acquired once at
the base of Hominidae and later lost in Homo.
Not lost, but ground-adapted, portable & invertable. Homo never evolved the shortened lower back,
short achilles short-leg long-arm form of all extant arboreal bowl-constructing great apes, which * the LCA P/H could not have had *.
One gain and one loss is
still more parsimonious than three times independent origin in Pongo,
Gorilla, and Pan.
No, cf lower back shortening *independently* in each, while Homo, hylobatids & OWMonkeys retain long lower back.Phylogenetically a shortened lower back could have been acquired once
at the base of Hominidae and later lost in Homo.
is still more parsimonious than three times independent origin.
Arboreal great apes preferentially inhabit swamp forests & murky river forests; hylobatidsRather sweeping generalizations. The 20 species of hylobatids range
& Homo preferentially inhabit uplands with moving and/or clear water.
from sea level to 2900 m a.s.l., including swamp forest.
See Family Hylobatidae in: https://www.lynxeds.com/product/handbook-of-the-mammals-of-the-world-volume-3/
And then there's mountain gorillas and savanna chimps. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/evan.21924
The article cited, and your claim, both ignore this reality, as blindly as the mermaids and marathonersYou're comparing me to the mermaids, while all I do is propose an
that never sleep but just keep going and going and going like Energizer bunnies.
alternative, more parsimonious, hypothesis based on a well-established
phylogeny? Thanks.
Comparing strawman to strawman.There's no straw in tracing the most parsimonious character
distribution on a phylogenetic tree.
On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 8:41:16 AM UTC-5, Pandora wrote:Most songbirds nest in the twig zone, which is where they get much of their food. Apes tend to nest near fruiting/masting trees.
On Fri, 18 Nov 2022 04:33:43 -0800 (PST), "DD'eDeN aka note/nickname/alas_my_loves" <daud....@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 6:33:39 AM UTC-5, Pandora wrote:
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 15:11:48 -0800 (PST), "DD'eDeN aka
note/nickname/alas_my_loves" <daud....@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 12:16:57 PM UTC-5, Pandora wrote:Don't mistake a causal hypothesis for a phylogenetic one.
On Thu, 17 Nov 2022 08:18:59 -0800 (PST), "DD'eDeN akaOWMonkeys, gibbons and Homo share a singular trait: none sleep in arboreal bowl nests.
note/nickname/alas_my_loves" <daud....@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, November 17, 2022 at 10:42:15 AM UTC-5, Pandora wrote: >> >> >> On Wed, 16 Nov 2022 09:06:04 -0800 (PST), "littor...@gmail.com" >> >> >> <littor...@gmail.com> wrote:See:
Gibbons & Homo indicate that great apes shortened their achilles, lower backs, legs
somebody:You think I'm Lieberman?
MV pretends to be an anthropologist (cultural or physical/biological
anthropology?), but doesn't have any degree in that field. >> >> >> >> >> His so-called "Study Center for Anthropology" is a figment of the
imagination. It's not a research/scientific nor an
academic/educational institution in any formal sense.
MV is a fraud.
:-DDD Pathetic: the *only* "agument" the kudu runners have... >> >> >> >> >My little little boy, grow up & think a *little* bit:
we have flat feet, no fur, thick SC fat, salty sweat, huge brains etc.etc.
Only complete idiots believe their Pleistocene ancestors ran after antelopes over African savannas!
Do you think Harvard University would give tenure to a complete idiot,
as a Professor of Biological Sciences?
Universities once thought the Earth was flat...
Some universities still believe their Pleist.ancestors ran after antelopes... :-DDD
https://scholar.harvard.edu/dlieberman/publications/endurance-running-and-evolution-homo
Ah, Lieberman?
I'm flattered.
So, which one of these do you think is the better walker/runner and
which one the better swimmer/diver?
https://ibb.co/ZcXHWjb
And of course we don't have flat feet, but uniquely double-arched >> >> >> feet, with a medial longitudinal arch (MLA) and tranverse tarsal arch
(TTA) which provides stifness to the foot, so that it can function as
a lever during walking and running in both Australopithecus and Homo,
and unlike apes.
https://sci-hub.se/10.1038/s41586-020-2053-y
And then there's the elongated achilles tendon that stores elastic
energy.
https://anatomypubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ar.24387 >> >> >
due to arboreal bowl nesting. Long achilles are plesiomorphic in hominoids. Chimps can
run faster than humans. Gibbons can walk bipedally and swing bimanually faster than chimps or gorillas.
https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rspb.2018.0859
I disagree with the authors that a short-fibred gastrocnemius muscle >> >> with a long Achilles tendon is ancestral for the Hominidae (great apes
+ Homo) and that "it seems most parsimonious that this ancestral
morphology was retained rather than re-acquired in the evolutionary >> >> lineage leading to the habitually bipedal, terrestrial modern humans."
This hypothesis requires three independent convergent evolutionary >> >> changes to a long-fibered gastrocnemius with a short Achilles tendon >> >> in Pongo, Gorilla and Pan, whereas loss of the long Achilles tendon in
the common ancestor of Hominidae and subsequent re-acquirement in the
lineage leading to Homo requires only two (one loss at the base of >> >> Hominidae, one re-acquirement after the split of Pan and Homo)
Two evolutionary character changes is more parsimonious than three. >> >> >> All adaptations to walking/running rather than swimming/diving. >> >
That is why all retain the long achilles tendon. Modern [*arboreal*] great apes share a singular trait, all
sleep in constructed arboreal bowl nests. That is why [*how*] all independently evolved shortened achilles tendon.
There certainly are exceptions, as would be expected of such a vast group. However sapsuckers and woodpeckers are anomalous in that they get their food by boring holes into trees seeking woodboring grubs, so nesting in tree holes is not unexpected.Arboreal birds build arboreal bowl nests.Irrelevant. Birds are not even primates and build nests in many forms. https://www.birdnote.org/sites/default/files/pileated_woodpecker_at_nest_hole_-_may_5_2016_1446-resize.jpg
Likely the LCA H/P slept at treeforks with a few branches bent/broken for more support, sitting almost upright, head tilted forward, with infants on mother's laps, based on body hair tracts of chimps & humans. Hylobatids sleep at treeforks when family,and on far branches when single afaict. Female dominant bonobos sleep highest in the tree. Male great apes sleep lowest normally, some adjacent on the ground.
It could well be that arboreal nest construction was acquired once at >> the base of Hominidae and later lost in Homo.
Not lost, but ground-adapted, portable & invertable. Homo never evolved the shortened lower back,
short achilles short-leg long-arm form of all extant arboreal bowl-constructing great apes, which * the LCA P/H could not have had *.
One gain and one loss is
still more parsimonious than three times independent origin in Pongo, >> Gorilla, and Pan.
Each has a uniquely derived short back, no commonality. Google it, lots of pictures.No, cf lower back shortening *independently* in each, while Homo, hylobatids & OWMonkeys retain long lower back.Phylogenetically a shortened lower back could have been acquired once
at the base of Hominidae and later lost in Homo.
One gain and one loss
is still more parsimonious than three times independent origin.The incursion of H sapiens has devastated hylobatid ecology. They can be found where they can't be hunted or logged out.
Arboreal great apes preferentially inhabit swamp forests & murky river forests; hylobatidsfrom sea level to 2900 m a.s.l., including swamp forest.
& Homo preferentially inhabit uplands with moving and/or clear water. Rather sweeping generalizations. The 20 species of hylobatids range
Formerly orangs dominated swamp forests, macaque troops & proboscids dominated river forests, hylobatids dominated stream forests, now Hs has it all.
See Family Hylobatidae in: https://www.lynxeds.com/product/handbook-of-the-mammals-of-the-world-volume-3/
And then there's mountain gorillas and savanna chimps. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/evan.21924Very derived from original environments, due to climate drying and competition from Homo.
The article cited, and your claim, both ignore this reality, as blindly as the mermaids and marathonersYou're comparing me to the mermaids, while all I do is propose an
that never sleep but just keep going and going and going like Energizer bunnies.
alternative, more parsimonious, hypothesis based on a well-established >> phylogeny? Thanks.
That tree needs work, obviously.Comparing strawman to strawman.There's no straw in tracing the most parsimonious character
distribution on a phylogenetic tree.
Simple question: how many proponents of that phylogenetic tree have ever lived in a jungle? I have.
JTEM is so reasonable
So he doesn't have a degree in a fake science? He's not a pseudo >intellectual?
That too
And claiming an academic title
On Friday, November 18, 2022 at 11:27:16 PM UTC-5, JTEM is so reasonable wrote:
Pandora wrote:
JTEM is so reasonable
So he doesn't have a degree in a fake science? He's not a pseudo >intellectual?
That too"Out of Africa" purity is sheer nonsense. Savanna idiocy just multiplies the stupidity.
And claiming an academic titleLol! You're not talking about academics, child. You're talking politics,
a social program, not to mention a thickly stratified social class
system where the jackwads at the top dictate to the plebs at the
bottom...
I actually had a paleo anthropology student, over in Australia, bitching about multiregionalism "Because white supremacists!" Not because of
facts, not because of a logical interpretation of evidence, but because their superiors dictated them the fantasy that multiregionalism is associated with white supremacists.
Bitch, the Chinese have been preaching it for years -- decades!
Look. It would be bad enough if the people you mistakenly identify as "Academics" limited themselves to colorful "Interpretations" of the evidence, but look at the wholesale idiocy they preach in examples
such as Naledi!
People are actually made MORE ignorant by listening to these so called "Academics." And you may be crazy, truly insane, or you don't have
room for MADE UP SHIT in academics.
NYU’s Center for the Study of Human Origins.-- --
https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/701231935675121664Chinese? Like SW China, far from any coast, the oldest known gibbon https://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publications/news/2022/september/earliest-gibbon-fossil-found-in-southwest-china.html
Silk Road, Babyertle!
scientists estimate that Yuanmoupithecus was similar in size to today’s gibbons, with a body weight of about 6 kilograms—or about 13 pounds.
“The teeth and the lower face of Yuanmoupithecus are very similar to those of modern-day gibbons, but in a few features the fossil species was more primitive and points to it being the ancestor of all the living species,” observes Harrison, part of
Pandora wrote:
JTEM is so reasonable
So he doesn't have a degree in a fake science? He's not a pseudo >intellectual?
That too"Out of Africa" purity is sheer nonsense. Savanna idiocy just multiplies
the stupidity.
And claiming an academic titleLol! You're not talking about academics, child. You're talking politics,
a social program, not to mention a thickly stratified social class
system where the jackwads at the top dictate to the plebs at the
bottom...
I actually had a paleo anthropology student, over in Australia, bitching about multiregionalism "Because white supremacists!" Not because of
facts, not because of a logical interpretation of evidence, but because their superiors dictated them the fantasy that multiregionalism is associated with white supremacists.
Bitch, the Chinese have been preaching it for years -- decades!
Look. It would be bad enough if the people you mistakenly identify as "Academics" limited themselves to colorful "Interpretations" of the evidence, but look at the wholesale idiocy they preach in examples
such as Naledi!
People are actually made MORE ignorant by listening to these so called "Academics." And you may be crazy, truly insane, or you don't have
room for MADE UP SHIT in academics.
-- --Chinese? Like SW China, far from any coast, the oldest known gibbon https://www.nyu.edu/about/news-publications/news/2022/september/earliest-gibbon-fossil-found-in-southwest-china.html
https://jtem.tumblr.com/post/701231935675121664
Chinese? Like SW China, far from any coast, the oldest known gibbon
Another Miocene ape from SW China, far from any coast.
Lufengpithecus lufengensis is from the Late Miocene found in China,[2] named after the Lufeng site[2] and dated around 6.2 Ma.[3] It is the latest Miocene fossil ape that has been discovered in the entire world.
somebody:
Another Miocene ape from SW China, far from any coast.:-)
Lufengpithecus lufengensis is from the Late Miocene found in China,[2] named after the Lufeng site[2] and dated around 6.2 Ma.[3] It is the latest Miocene fossil ape that has been discovered in the entire world.
Thanks for confirming my view:
Hominoid Evolution & Plate Tectonics hypothesis:
-India appraching Eurasia->archipelago fm in Tethys Ocean,
-first Catarrhini reaching these islands c?30 Ma + coastal forests became gradually aquarboreal:
Latisternalia=Hominoidea:
larger body, tail loss, central=upright spine, broad sternum->lateral arms, broad trx & pelvis etc.
Google "aquarboreal".
-India further underneath Eurasia split lesser (E) & great (W) apes c?25 Ma, still aquarboreal & vertically=bipedally wading-climbing:
-great apes colonizing Tethys Sea:
Mesopotamian Seaway closure c 15 Ma split pongids-sivapiths incl.Lufengpith.(E) & hominids-dryopiths (W), incl.
some hominids in Red Sea coastal forests, still aquarboreal: HPG,
-E.Afr.Rift fm after 8 Ma split HP (still Read Sea) & Gorilla->afarensis->boisei-gorillas (Rift)
-Zanclean flood c 5.3 Ma killed Med.Sea but not (all) Red Sea hominids, and also opened Red Sea into Gulf?:
--Homo went left along Ind.Ocean->Java, Flores etc.->google "coastal dispersal Pleistocene Homo",
--Pan went right along Ind.Ocean->S.Africa // Gorilla: africanus->robustus->bonobo/chimp,
schematically:
Gorilla//Pan: from late-Pliocene "gracile" afarensis//africanus -> early-Pleist."robust" boisei//robustus.
IOW,
- bipedalism is much much older than many PAs believe (ego=anthropocentrism) and
- only incredible idiots believe anthropocentrically that there are lots & lots of Plio-Pleist.relatives of us in Africa, but Pan or Gorilla had 0 fossil relatives.
Gestation period of Hominoidae gives no indication that Hylobatids shrank.
30 Ma:India appraching Eurasia->archipelago fm in Tethys Ocean.
early-Pleist."robust" boisei//robustus
today knuckle-walking gorillas//chimp+bonobo.
Hominoid Evolution & Plate Tectonics:
30 Ma:India appraching Eurasia->archipelago fm in Tethys Ocean.
The first Catarrhini reaching these islands (full of coastal forests) became gradually aquarboreal:
vertical=bipedal wading + climbing arms overhead in swamp-forests:
this eplains why apes differ from monkeys:
Latisternalia=Hominoidea: larger body, tail loss, central=upright spine, broad sternum->lateral arms, broad trx & pelvis etc.
Google "aquarboreal".
c.25 Ma:
India further underneath Eurasia split lesser (E) & great (W) apes, still aquarboreal & vertically=bipedally wading-climbing.
Miocene great apes colonized Tethys (= later Med.) Sea coastal forests.
15 Ma:
The Mesopotamian Seaway closure split pongids-sivapiths (E: Ind.Ocean) & hominids-dryopiths (W: Med+Red Sea).
Hominids s.s. (HPG) lived around the Red Sea.
c.8 Ma:
E.Afr.Rift fm after 8 Ma split HP (still Read Sea) & Gorilla->afarensis->boisei->gorillas (Rift).
5.3 Ma:
The Zanclean flood killed Med.Sea hominids, but not (all) Red Sea hominids, the Red Sea opened into the Gulf:
-- Homo went left along Ind.Ocean->Java, Flores etc.->google "coastal dispersal Pleistocene Homo",
-- Pan went right along Ind.Ocean->S.Africa // Gorilla: africanus->robustus->bonobo/chimp,
schematically: Gorilla//Pan:
-from late-Pliocene "gracile" afarensis//africanus
early-Pleist."robust" boisei//robustus
today knuckle-walking gorillas//chimp+bonobo.
IOW,
- bipedalism is much much older than many PAs anthropocentrically believe,
- it's incredibly stupid to assume that we had lots & lots of Plio-Pleist.relatives in Africa (australopiths = so-called "hominins"), and that Pan or Gorilla had 0 fossil relatives.
In fact, we know alreadysince 1976 that Pliocene Homo ancestors were *not* in Africa!!
Raoul Benveniste & George Todaro 1976
"Evolution of type C viral genes: evidence for an Asian origin of man"
Nature 261:101-8 doi org/10.1038/261101a0
Old World monkeys & apes incl.man possess (as a normal component of their cellular DNA) gene sequences (viro-genes) related to the RNA of a vims isolated from baboons.
A comparison of the viral gene sequences & the other cellular sequences distinguishes
- those OWMs & apes that have evolved in Africa
- from those that have evolved in Asia.
Among the apes,
- only gorilla & chimp seem by these criteria to be African,
- gibbon, orang-utan & man are identified as Asian:
most of man's evolution has occurred outside Africa.
Only incredible idiots believe we had African Pliocene ancestors running after antelopes!!
These misconceptions are due to
- afrocentrism (already since Darwin: P & G live in Africa) &
- anthropocentrism (e.g. believing that BPism is derived).
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