Sawfish <sawfish666@gmail.com> Wrote in message:r

On 3/31/24 9:44 AM, *skriptis wrote:> https://youtube.com/watch?v=gZRF-ez59a4&si=8AaZoKWzb1TJM3QLI can recall when I was a kid I heard that the Catholic Church changed the liturgy & other formalized ritual communication from Latin to the popular

language of the regions. Do you favor that, or the way it is now?Me, I tend to see value in carrying on ritual tradition for religions and other cultural practices.--


It was decision made by Second Vatican Council in 1962-1965.

I only know the way it is now.

Of course, my local church was made of stone, you could feel antiquity and Mediterranean there and feel the remnants of the old age.

I would argue that the prayers and mass not being in Latin is not the biggest change nor it has such profound effect. Orthodox church had used native languages for much earlier.


It's this.


https://i.pinimg.com/736x/56/f7/18/56f7180df84dd4220e741fb4ab3ba20a.jpg



It's the protestantisation of Catholicism, so the (modern) decline has begun there.

Before Vatican II Council, there was altar, and priest(s) were facing the altar and people were behind the priest. Just as in orthodox church.

Then, after Vatican II, they played a "desk" between the altar and the people, and priest turned away from the altar and has desk in frontof him and is facing people now and talking to them.

He still turns away towards the real altar sometimes during the mass (I guess to satisfy certain criteria) but generally the whole area, including this "desk" is now considered an altar.


For old folks, bizarre and heretical.



Of course, there's a reason. Jews have taken over the West post ww2 and they forced philosemitism even on Catholic church, forcing them to "apologise" fox holocaust and blaming church for anti-Semitism any forcing them to implement all sorts of changes.


Of course, Orthodox will claim the decline of western church has begun way way back before since they've compromised on small details in the past (orthodox claim no pragmatism is allowed) and that all of this decline is a consequence of their past
actions.


But anyway whether you're Eastern Catholic (called orthodox) or you're Western Catholic, and you disagree on who deviated from whom, who betrayed whom, it's clear that after Vatican II Council it's difficult to claim Roman Church is the one which is
true.

That's like Djokovic's 23 to Nadal's 22 moment.



The only sovereign church today is the Russian orthodox one since it's protected by their state, so that truly makes the old prophesy true, Moscow being the Third Rome, and Putin the (only) Christian tsar/emperor.

It's also the most belligerent one, not embracing gay.

Of course, if we want to nitpick, the Russian orthodox church had sort of its own "mini Vatican II Council" in 16th century, when they changed some stuff in liturgy, e.g. started using 3 fingers making one point instead of 2 fingers.

Old paintings of Jesus support this thesis.

https://www.pinterest.ca/pin/library-booktrailer-ya--211880357442601631/


So you had those known as old believers splitting off from the Russian church, and tsars persecuted them and later soviets too.

Many claim last tsars and his family was martyred for those sins, both empires (tsarist and soviet) fell.


Putin is embracing the old believers.

https://www.asianews.it/news-en/Putin-and-the-anniversary-of-the-Old-Believers,-the-'true-Russians'-41492.html




--




----Android NewsGroup Reader---- https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)