• Shirt #10 in World Cups

    From =?UTF-8?B?TGzDqW8=?=@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 10 18:59:39 2022
    Continuing the countdown, 10 days to the Cup we examine some of the most interesting #10's to play in the tournament! #10 is quite loaded, so let's
    try to do this more or less geographically.

    The players who wore it for most World Cups are the very obvious ones to
    start today's list: Pelé and Maradona, both holding the number for their countries in four World Cups (Pelé from 1958 to 1970, and Maradona from
    1982 to 1994). Lionel Messi will join this company now in 2022, having been Argentina's #10 from 2010 to 2018.

    Uruguay's Pedro Rocha could have been in too, having worn the Celeste #10
    in 1962, 1966 and... 1974. But although he captained Uruguay on their way
    to the semifinals in 1970, he wore #8 that time. The same could be said
    about Peru's Teofilo Cubillas, who was his country's #10 in 1970, 1978 and 1982, and would have been in 1974 too had Peru not failed to qualify.

    Pelé is also the number's top goalscorer, with 12 goals, though Cubillas
    (10 goals) and Maradona (8) are not far behind.

    South American countries also boast names such as Rivaldo (1998 and 2002), Zico (1982 and 1986), Rivelino (1974 and 1978), Ronaldinho (2006) and Kaká (2010) for Brasil; Argentina brings on Mario Kempes (1978), Ariel Ortega
    (1998 and 2002) and Juan Roman Riquelme (2006); Uruguay's Juan Schiaffino (1950 and 1954), Diego Forlán (2010 and 2014), Enzo Francescoli (1986) and Ruben Paz (1990); Colombia's Carlos Valderrama (1990 to 1998) and James Rodriguez (2014 and 2018); and an honourable mention to Ecuador's Alex
    Aguinaga (2002), who was already nearing the end of his career when he
    played a WC, but was one of my favorite players.

    Crossing the Atlantic towards Europe, let's begin mentioning Hungary's Galloping Major, Ferenc Puskas (1954), an all time great who led one of
    the world's finest teams at his time.

    Then our next pit stop is in France, which brings Zinedine Zidane (1998
    to 2006), Michel Platini (1982 and 1986) and Kylian Mbappé (2018 and, I guess, 2022 too?). This trio boasts three World Cup finals (two won and
    one lost) and two semifinals. There's also Italy's Gianni Rivera (1974), Roberto Baggio (1994), Alessandro del Piero (1998) and Francesco Totti
    (2002 and 2006). England brings on Gary Lineker's 10 World Cup goals with number #10 (1986 and 1990), Geoff Hurst (scorer of a hat-trick in a WC
    final, 1966) and Michael Owen (2002 and 2006). With Germany's #10 there's Felix Magath (1986) and Lothar Matthaus (1990 and 1994). Maybe one should mention Günter Netzer (1974) too, since even though he didn't play much in that WC, he was the first World Cup winner to be playing, at the time of winning, for a club outside his country.

    Elsewhere in Europe we could mention Spain's Raul (1998) and Cesc Fábregas (2010 and 2014); Portugal's Mario Coluna (1966) and Rui Costa (2002); Belgium's Eden Hazard (2014 and 2018); the Netherlands' Ruud Gullit (1990), Dennis Begkamp (1994), Clarence Seedorf (1998) and Wesley Sneijder (1998); Croatia's Luka Modric (2014 and 2018); Yugoslavia's Dragan Stojkovic (1990 and 1998);
    and Romania's Gheorghe Hagi (1990 to 1998).

    Going into Africa, the biggest names are probably the most recent ones, Egypt's Mohamed Salah (2018) and Senegal's Sadio Mane (2018). But there are also others,
    such as Nigeria's Jay Jay Okocha (1994 to 2002); Algeria's Lakhdar Belloumi (1982 and 1986); and Ghana's Stephen Appiah (2006 and 2010).

    Since the numbers in the 1-11 range are rather loaded generally, I'm certain
    to have missed someone important or obvious. If you see it, do point it out,
    or make any corrections you see fit. And tomorrow, #9!


    Best regards,

    Lléo

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Werner Pichler@21:1/5 to All on Fri Nov 11 00:23:17 2022
    On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 3:59:41 AM UTC+1, Lléo wrote:
    Continuing the countdown, 10 days to the Cup we examine some of the most interesting #10's to play in the tournament! #10 is quite loaded, so let's try to do this more or less geographically.

    The players who wore it for most World Cups are the very obvious ones to start today's list: Pelé and Maradona, both holding the number for their countries in four World Cups (Pelé from 1958 to 1970, and Maradona from 1982 to 1994). Lionel Messi will join this company now in 2022, having been Argentina's #10 from 2010 to 2018.

    Uruguay's Pedro Rocha could have been in too, having worn the Celeste #10
    in 1962, 1966 and... 1974. But although he captained Uruguay on their way
    to the semifinals in 1970, he wore #8 that time. The same could be said about Peru's Teofilo Cubillas, who was his country's #10 in 1970, 1978 and 1982, and would have been in 1974 too had Peru not failed to qualify.

    Pelé is also the number's top goalscorer, with 12 goals, though Cubillas (10 goals) and Maradona (8) are not far behind.

    South American countries also boast names such as Rivaldo (1998 and 2002), Zico (1982 and 1986), Rivelino (1974 and 1978), Ronaldinho (2006) and Kaká (2010) for Brasil; Argentina brings on Mario Kempes (1978), Ariel Ortega (1998 and 2002) and Juan Roman Riquelme (2006); Uruguay's Juan Schiaffino (1950 and 1954), Diego Forlán (2010 and 2014), Enzo Francescoli (1986) and Ruben Paz (1990); Colombia's Carlos Valderrama (1990 to 1998) and James Rodriguez (2014 and 2018); and an honourable mention to Ecuador's Alex Aguinaga (2002), who was already nearing the end of his career when he played a WC, but was one of my favorite players.

    Crossing the Atlantic towards Europe, let's begin mentioning Hungary's Galloping Major, Ferenc Puskas (1954), an all time great who led one of
    the world's finest teams at his time.

    Then our next pit stop is in France, which brings Zinedine Zidane (1998
    to 2006), Michel Platini (1982 and 1986) and Kylian Mbappé (2018 and, I guess, 2022 too?). This trio boasts three World Cup finals (two won and
    one lost) and two semifinals. There's also Italy's Gianni Rivera (1974), Roberto Baggio (1994), Alessandro del Piero (1998) and Francesco Totti
    (2002 and 2006). England brings on Gary Lineker's 10 World Cup goals with number #10 (1986 and 1990), Geoff Hurst (scorer of a hat-trick in a WC final, 1966) and Michael Owen (2002 and 2006). With Germany's #10 there's Felix Magath (1986) and Lothar Matthaus (1990 and 1994). Maybe one should mention Günter Netzer (1974) too, since even though he didn't play much in that WC, he was the first World Cup winner to be playing, at the time of winning, for a club outside his country.

    I'd never realised that. So Kempes was the first winner playing abroad that actually
    was on the pitch in the final. (And I guess Schnellinger in 1966 was the first one
    if you include runners-up?)

    BTW Netzer, idiosyncratic as he is, has always maintained that he doesn't see himself
    as a World Cup Winner, as he only saw minutes in the lost game against the Other
    Germany.

    Ciao,
    Werner

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mark@21:1/5 to All on Fri Nov 11 03:12:20 2022
    On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 2:59:41 AM UTC, Lléo wrote:


    Elsewhere in Europe we could mention Spain's Raul (1998) and Cesc Fábregas (2010 and 2014); Portugal's Mario Coluna (1966) and Rui Costa (2002); Belgium's
    Eden Hazard (2014 and 2018); the Netherlands' Ruud Gullit (1990), Dennis Begkamp (1994), Clarence Seedorf (1998) and Wesley Sneijder (1998); Croatia's
    Luka Modric (2014 and 2018); Yugoslavia's Dragan Stojkovic (1990 and 1998); and Romania's Gheorghe Hagi (1990 to 1998).

    Going into Africa, the biggest names are probably the most recent ones, Egypt's
    Mohamed Salah (2018) and Senegal's Sadio Mane (2018). But there are also others,
    such as Nigeria's Jay Jay Okocha (1994 to 2002); Algeria's Lakhdar Belloumi (1982 and 1986); and Ghana's Stephen Appiah (2006 and 2010).

    Since the numbers in the 1-11 range are rather loaded generally, I'm certain to have missed someone important or obvious. If you see it, do point it out, or make any corrections you see fit. And tomorrow, #9!


    Wow. I'd be surprised if you have missed any. I did notice a mistake though. Clarence Seedorf and Wesley Sneijder can't both have played number 10 in 1998.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Ion Saliu@21:1/5 to All on Fri Nov 11 04:46:07 2022
    On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 4:59:41 AM UTC+2, Lléo wrote:
    Continuing the countdown, 10 days to the Cup we examine some of the most interesting #10's to play in the tournament! #10 is quite loaded, so let's try to do this more or less geographically.

    The players who wore it for most World Cups are the very obvious ones to start today's list: Pelé and Maradona, both holding the number for their countries in four World Cups (Pelé from 1958 to 1970, and Maradona from 1982 to 1994). Lionel Messi will join this company now in 2022, having been Argentina's #10 from 2010 to 2018.

    Uruguay's Pedro Rocha could have been in too, having worn the Celeste #10
    in 1962, 1966 and... 1974. But although he captained Uruguay on their way
    to the semifinals in 1970, he wore #8 that time. The same could be said about Peru's Teofilo Cubillas, who was his country's #10 in 1970, 1978 and 1982, and would have been in 1974 too had Peru not failed to qualify.

    Pelé is also the number's top goalscorer, with 12 goals, though Cubillas (10 goals) and Maradona (8) are not far behind.

    South American countries also boast names such as Rivaldo (1998 and 2002), Zico (1982 and 1986), Rivelino (1974 and 1978), Ronaldinho (2006) and Kaká (2010) for Brasil; Argentina brings on Mario Kempes (1978), Ariel Ortega (1998 and 2002) and Juan Roman Riquelme (2006); Uruguay's Juan Schiaffino (1950 and 1954), Diego Forlán (2010 and 2014), Enzo Francescoli (1986) and Ruben Paz (1990); Colombia's Carlos Valderrama (1990 to 1998) and James Rodriguez (2014 and 2018); and an honourable mention to Ecuador's Alex Aguinaga (2002), who was already nearing the end of his career when he played a WC, but was one of my favorite players.

    Crossing the Atlantic towards Europe, let's begin mentioning Hungary's Galloping Major, Ferenc Puskas (1954), an all time great who led one of
    the world's finest teams at his time.

    Then our next pit stop is in France, which brings Zinedine Zidane (1998
    to 2006), Michel Platini (1982 and 1986) and Kylian Mbappé (2018 and, I guess, 2022 too?). This trio boasts three World Cup finals (two won and
    one lost) and two semifinals. There's also Italy's Gianni Rivera (1974), Roberto Baggio (1994), Alessandro del Piero (1998) and Francesco Totti
    (2002 and 2006). England brings on Gary Lineker's 10 World Cup goals with number #10 (1986 and 1990), Geoff Hurst (scorer of a hat-trick in a WC final, 1966) and Michael Owen (2002 and 2006). With Germany's #10 there's Felix Magath (1986) and Lothar Matthaus (1990 and 1994). Maybe one should mention Günter Netzer (1974) too, since even though he didn't play much in that WC, he was the first World Cup winner to be playing, at the time of winning, for a club outside his country.

    Elsewhere in Europe we could mention Spain's Raul (1998) and Cesc Fábregas (2010 and 2014); Portugal's Mario Coluna (1966) and Rui Costa (2002); Belgium's
    Eden Hazard (2014 and 2018); the Netherlands' Ruud Gullit (1990), Dennis Begkamp (1994), Clarence Seedorf (1998) and Wesley Sneijder (1998); Croatia's
    Luka Modric (2014 and 2018); Yugoslavia's Dragan Stojkovic (1990 and 1998); and Romania's Gheorghe Hagi (1990 to 1998).

    Going into Africa, the biggest names are probably the most recent ones, Egypt's
    Mohamed Salah (2018) and Senegal's Sadio Mane (2018). But there are also others,
    such as Nigeria's Jay Jay Okocha (1994 to 2002); Algeria's Lakhdar Belloumi (1982 and 1986); and Ghana's Stephen Appiah (2006 and 2010).

    Since the numbers in the 1-11 range are rather loaded generally, I'm certain to have missed someone important or obvious. If you see it, do point it out, or make any corrections you see fit. And tomorrow, #9!


    Best regards,

    Lléo

    Llitser:

    Axiomático, 10 is the number of all numbers in football. For some reason, it is considered “the perfect number” in mathematics. In judgment sports, 10 is the perfect mark (e.g.; Olympic gymnastics and Nadia Comaneci at 1976 Montreal).

    In football, 10 is still royalty. Its magic is fading away, however. Too heavy a weight to wear… fewer Puskáses, Pelés, Maradonas…

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From MH@21:1/5 to Werner Pichler on Fri Nov 11 12:12:46 2022
    On 2022-11-11 01:23, Werner Pichler wrote:
    On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 3:59:41 AM UTC+1, Lléo wrote:
    Continuing the countdown, 10 days to the Cup we examine some of the most
    interesting #10's to play in the tournament! #10 is quite loaded, so let's >> try to do this more or less geographically.

    The players who wore it for most World Cups are the very obvious ones to
    start today's list: Pelé and Maradona, both holding the number for their
    countries in four World Cups (Pelé from 1958 to 1970, and Maradona from
    1982 to 1994). Lionel Messi will join this company now in 2022, having been >> Argentina's #10 from 2010 to 2018.

    Uruguay's Pedro Rocha could have been in too, having worn the Celeste #10
    in 1962, 1966 and... 1974. But although he captained Uruguay on their way
    to the semifinals in 1970, he wore #8 that time. The same could be said
    about Peru's Teofilo Cubillas, who was his country's #10 in 1970, 1978 and >> 1982, and would have been in 1974 too had Peru not failed to qualify.

    Pelé is also the number's top goalscorer, with 12 goals, though Cubillas
    (10 goals) and Maradona (8) are not far behind.

    South American countries also boast names such as Rivaldo (1998 and 2002), >> Zico (1982 and 1986), Rivelino (1974 and 1978), Ronaldinho (2006) and Kaká >> (2010) for Brasil; Argentina brings on Mario Kempes (1978), Ariel Ortega
    (1998 and 2002) and Juan Roman Riquelme (2006); Uruguay's Juan Schiaffino
    (1950 and 1954), Diego Forlán (2010 and 2014), Enzo Francescoli (1986) and >> Ruben Paz (1990); Colombia's Carlos Valderrama (1990 to 1998) and James
    Rodriguez (2014 and 2018); and an honourable mention to Ecuador's Alex
    Aguinaga (2002), who was already nearing the end of his career when he
    played a WC, but was one of my favorite players.

    Crossing the Atlantic towards Europe, let's begin mentioning Hungary's
    Galloping Major, Ferenc Puskas (1954), an all time great who led one of
    the world's finest teams at his time.

    Then our next pit stop is in France, which brings Zinedine Zidane (1998
    to 2006), Michel Platini (1982 and 1986) and Kylian Mbappé (2018 and, I
    guess, 2022 too?). This trio boasts three World Cup finals (two won and
    one lost) and two semifinals. There's also Italy's Gianni Rivera (1974),
    Roberto Baggio (1994), Alessandro del Piero (1998) and Francesco Totti
    (2002 and 2006). England brings on Gary Lineker's 10 World Cup goals with
    number #10 (1986 and 1990), Geoff Hurst (scorer of a hat-trick in a WC
    final, 1966) and Michael Owen (2002 and 2006). With Germany's #10 there's
    Felix Magath (1986) and Lothar Matthaus (1990 and 1994). Maybe one should
    mention Günter Netzer (1974) too, since even though he didn't play much in >> that WC, he was the first World Cup winner to be playing, at the time of
    winning, for a club outside his country.

    I'd never realised that. So Kempes was the first winner playing abroad that actually
    was on the pitch in the final. (And I guess Schnellinger in 1966 was the first one
    if you include runners-up?)

    Haller would have been the same as Schnellinger, no ?
    But surely the Swedes playing abroad in 1958 would have been the first legionnaires to play in a WC final, no ? That would have been Liedholm,
    Hamrin, Skoglund and Gustaffson.


    BTW Netzer, idiosyncratic as he is, has always maintained that he doesn't see himself
    as a World Cup Winner, as he only saw minutes in the lost game against the Other
    Germany.

    Ciao,
    Werner

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From =?UTF-8?B?TGzDqW8=?=@21:1/5 to All on Fri Nov 11 15:57:56 2022
    Ion Saliu escreveu:
    Axiomático, 10 is the number of all numbers in football. For some reason,
    it is considered “the perfect number” in mathematics. In judgment sports, 10 is the perfect mark (e.g.; Olympic gymnastics and Nadia Comaneci at 1976 Montreal).

    In football, 10 is still royalty. Its magic is fading away, however. Too heavy a weight to wear… fewer Puskáses, Pelés, Maradonas…


    So, when will Romania produce another Gheorghe Hagi, the "Maradona of the Carpathians"? I remember watching him in the WC's of the 1990's and he was
    a very fine player. Romania is long overdue for a return to the WC stage.


    Best regards,

    Lléo

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From =?UTF-8?B?TGzDqW8=?=@21:1/5 to All on Fri Nov 11 15:53:13 2022
    Mark escreveu:
    On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 2:59:41 AM UTC, Lléo wrote:


    Elsewhere in Europe we could mention Spain's Raul (1998) and Cesc Fábregas
    (2010 and 2014); Portugal's Mario Coluna (1966) and Rui Costa (2002); Belgium's
    Eden Hazard (2014 and 2018); the Netherlands' Ruud Gullit (1990), Dennis Begkamp (1994), Clarence Seedorf (1998) and Wesley Sneijder (1998); Croatia's
    Luka Modric (2014 and 2018); Yugoslavia's Dragan Stojkovic (1990 and 1998);
    and Romania's Gheorghe Hagi (1990 to 1998).

    Going into Africa, the biggest names are probably the most recent ones, Egypt's
    Mohamed Salah (2018) and Senegal's Sadio Mane (2018). But there are also others,
    such as Nigeria's Jay Jay Okocha (1994 to 2002); Algeria's Lakhdar Belloumi
    (1982 and 1986); and Ghana's Stephen Appiah (2006 and 2010).

    Since the numbers in the 1-11 range are rather loaded generally, I'm certain
    to have missed someone important or obvious. If you see it, do point it out,
    or make any corrections you see fit. And tomorrow, #9!

    Wow. I'd be surprised if you have missed any. I did notice a mistake though. Clarence
    Seedorf and Wesley Sneijder can't both have played number 10 in 1998.


    Oops, you're right, thanks for spotting that. Sneijder was Dutch #10 in 2010 and 2014.


    Best regards,

    Lléo

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ion Saliu@21:1/5 to All on Sat Nov 12 02:45:23 2022
    On Saturday, November 12, 2022 at 1:57:58 AM UTC+2, Lléo wrote:
    Ion Saliu escreveu:
    Axiomático, 10 is the number of all numbers in football. For some reason, it is considered “the perfect number” in mathematics. In judgment sports,
    10 is the perfect mark (e.g.; Olympic gymnastics and Nadia Comaneci at 1976
    Montreal).

    In football, 10 is still royalty. Its magic is fading away, however. Too heavy a weight to wear… fewer Puskáses, Pelés, Maradonas…
    So, when will Romania produce another Gheorghe Hagi, the "Maradona of the Carpathians"? I remember watching him in the WC's of the 1990's and he was
    a very fine player. Romania is long overdue for a return to the WC stage.


    Best regards,

    Lléo

    Llitser:

    Axiomático, that Number 10, Hagi, had the peak of his glory at World Cup 1994. He was informed that he would be the next ‘Ballon d'Or’ if winning the quarterfinal against Sweden. But disaster struck: Romania lost at penalty kicks!

    In any event, it is far more plausible for Romania to have another Hagi, even a better one, possibly a ‘Ballon d'Or’. I compare the situation to that incredible David Popovici, the fastest swimmer in history. And he is Romanian, not American!!!

    Right now, kids in Romania have a lower interest in football, even sports, than during Communism. Most playgrounds I remember disappeared; they became expensive properties.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Werner Pichler@21:1/5 to All on Sat Nov 12 08:44:38 2022
    On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 8:12:49 PM UTC+1, MH wrote:
    On 2022-11-11 01:23, Werner Pichler wrote:
    On Friday, November 11, 2022 at 3:59:41 AM UTC+1, Lléo wrote:
    Continuing the countdown, 10 days to the Cup we examine some of the most >> interesting #10's to play in the tournament! #10 is quite loaded, so let's
    try to do this more or less geographically.

    The players who wore it for most World Cups are the very obvious ones to >> start today's list: Pelé and Maradona, both holding the number for their >> countries in four World Cups (Pelé from 1958 to 1970, and Maradona from >> 1982 to 1994). Lionel Messi will join this company now in 2022, having been
    Argentina's #10 from 2010 to 2018.

    Uruguay's Pedro Rocha could have been in too, having worn the Celeste #10 >> in 1962, 1966 and... 1974. But although he captained Uruguay on their way >> to the semifinals in 1970, he wore #8 that time. The same could be said >> about Peru's Teofilo Cubillas, who was his country's #10 in 1970, 1978 and
    1982, and would have been in 1974 too had Peru not failed to qualify.

    Pelé is also the number's top goalscorer, with 12 goals, though Cubillas >> (10 goals) and Maradona (8) are not far behind.

    South American countries also boast names such as Rivaldo (1998 and 2002),
    Zico (1982 and 1986), Rivelino (1974 and 1978), Ronaldinho (2006) and Kaká
    (2010) for Brasil; Argentina brings on Mario Kempes (1978), Ariel Ortega >> (1998 and 2002) and Juan Roman Riquelme (2006); Uruguay's Juan Schiaffino >> (1950 and 1954), Diego Forlán (2010 and 2014), Enzo Francescoli (1986) and
    Ruben Paz (1990); Colombia's Carlos Valderrama (1990 to 1998) and James >> Rodriguez (2014 and 2018); and an honourable mention to Ecuador's Alex
    Aguinaga (2002), who was already nearing the end of his career when he
    played a WC, but was one of my favorite players.

    Crossing the Atlantic towards Europe, let's begin mentioning Hungary's
    Galloping Major, Ferenc Puskas (1954), an all time great who led one of >> the world's finest teams at his time.

    Then our next pit stop is in France, which brings Zinedine Zidane (1998 >> to 2006), Michel Platini (1982 and 1986) and Kylian Mbappé (2018 and, I >> guess, 2022 too?). This trio boasts three World Cup finals (two won and >> one lost) and two semifinals. There's also Italy's Gianni Rivera (1974), >> Roberto Baggio (1994), Alessandro del Piero (1998) and Francesco Totti
    (2002 and 2006). England brings on Gary Lineker's 10 World Cup goals with >> number #10 (1986 and 1990), Geoff Hurst (scorer of a hat-trick in a WC
    final, 1966) and Michael Owen (2002 and 2006). With Germany's #10 there's >> Felix Magath (1986) and Lothar Matthaus (1990 and 1994). Maybe one should >> mention Günter Netzer (1974) too, since even though he didn't play much in
    that WC, he was the first World Cup winner to be playing, at the time of >> winning, for a club outside his country.

    I'd never realised that. So Kempes was the first winner playing abroad that actually
    was on the pitch in the final. (And I guess Schnellinger in 1966 was the first one
    if you include runners-up?)

    Haller would have been the same as Schnellinger, no ?
    But surely the Swedes playing abroad in 1958 would have been the first legionnaires to play in a WC final, no ? That would have been Liedholm, Hamrin, Skoglund and Gustaffson.

    There you have it, I've so internalized Anders's moaning about how Sweden's 50's stars
    couldn't feature for the NT because of their status as professionals that I didn't even
    check whether that was still the case in 58.


    Ciao,
    Werner

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)