I recently had to install new axles on a trailer in order to get
working brakes on the trailer... Don't lecture me about how you could
have done this or that and not replaced them. They were oddballs and I
wasted a couple weeks looking for other solutions.
The u-bolts that came with the new axles came with the destructive
style lock nuts. I don't mind to much. I hoped to never have to deal
with this again on this trailer anyway. On my second run to go pick up
a truck and haul it halfway across the state over some mountains and
some modestly substantial grades and weave through the Salt River
Canyon two nuts came off.
When the nuts came off I don't know, but when I went over a bump the
axle popped off the springs and the tire slammed into the tire behind.
I had just hit 65 mph and it suddenly felt wrong. I was running empty
and all of a sudden it felt like I was running with a load. I glanced
at the mirror and smoke was pouring off those tires so bad I thought a
hub was on fire. Fortunately, there was on old stock yard just ahead
with a lot of flat ground out front where I was able to safely pull
out somewhere west of Coolidge. The axle coming loose turned out to be
an easy fix. Since I was still running empty I just jacked the side of
the trailer up, rolled the axle back in place, and ratchet strapped it
tight. Then I whipped out my cell phone and entered NEAREST HARDWARE
STORE into the search window.
The U-bolt that had fallen off was just barely hanging onto the axle
still by the extra friction of the threads. The other U-bolt was still attached to the cross plate by the nuts. At least I wasn't wondering
where in small town Arizona I was going to find U-bolts.
There was a Tractor Supply store in Coolidge that had TWO (2) (just
two) 9/16 fine nuts. They were in the wrong bin, but I found them.
With that, a couple fresh lock washers, and copious amounts of red
high strength Permatex thread locker I crawled under the trailer in
the parking lot to fix it.
Coming back I stopped and checked the trailer and my load at every
brake check lane and pullout. With a 3/4 ton Dodge w/ Cummins on the
back I made it back through the mountains and across the Salt River
Canyon almost with out incident. Somewhere on a long flat Southwest of Globe/Miami I glanced in the mirror to see one of the hooks for a
front strap laying on the trailer deck. The strap broke where it went
over the frame. Fortunately I had left the winch cable tight or I
might have lost the truck.
I'm too old for this sort of adventure. I prepared for everything I
could think of. Brought tools, and materials for emergencies, and did everything I could think of to prevent problems before setting out.
Yes, the nuts were torqued down properly both times. LOL.
Yeah, I know... there are plenty among you who can tell me everything
they think I did wrong, but at the end I made it home. Now I have to
get that truck back off the trailer.
On 12/04/2024 21:14, Bob La Londe wrote:
I recently had to install new axles on a trailer in order to getGood to hear no serious damage or injury. What do you mean by a
working brakes on the trailer... Don't lecture me about how you could
have done this or that and not replaced them. They were oddballs and I
wasted a couple weeks looking for other solutions.
The u-bolts that came with the new axles came with the destructive
style lock nuts. I don't mind to much. I hoped to never have to deal
with this again on this trailer anyway. On my second run to go pick up
a truck and haul it halfway across the state over some mountains and
some modestly substantial grades and weave through the Salt River
Canyon two nuts came off.
When the nuts came off I don't know, but when I went over a bump the
axle popped off the springs and the tire slammed into the tire behind.
I had just hit 65 mph and it suddenly felt wrong. I was running empty
and all of a sudden it felt like I was running with a load. I glanced
at the mirror and smoke was pouring off those tires so bad I thought a
hub was on fire. Fortunately, there was on old stock yard just ahead
with a lot of flat ground out front where I was able to safely pull
out somewhere west of Coolidge. The axle coming loose turned out to be
an easy fix. Since I was still running empty I just jacked the side of
the trailer up, rolled the axle back in place, and ratchet strapped it
tight. Then I whipped out my cell phone and entered NEAREST HARDWARE
STORE into the search window.
The U-bolt that had fallen off was just barely hanging onto the axle
still by the extra friction of the threads. The other U-bolt was still
attached to the cross plate by the nuts. At least I wasn't wondering
where in small town Arizona I was going to find U-bolts.
There was a Tractor Supply store in Coolidge that had TWO (2) (just
two) 9/16 fine nuts. They were in the wrong bin, but I found them.
With that, a couple fresh lock washers, and copious amounts of red
high strength Permatex thread locker I crawled under the trailer in
the parking lot to fix it.
Coming back I stopped and checked the trailer and my load at every
brake check lane and pullout. With a 3/4 ton Dodge w/ Cummins on the
back I made it back through the mountains and across the Salt River
Canyon almost with out incident. Somewhere on a long flat Southwest of
Globe/Miami I glanced in the mirror to see one of the hooks for a
front strap laying on the trailer deck. The strap broke where it went
over the frame. Fortunately I had left the winch cable tight or I
might have lost the truck.
I'm too old for this sort of adventure. I prepared for everything I
could think of. Brought tools, and materials for emergencies, and did
everything I could think of to prevent problems before setting out.
Yes, the nuts were torqued down properly both times. LOL.
Yeah, I know... there are plenty among you who can tell me everything
they think I did wrong, but at the end I made it home. Now I have to
get that truck back off the trailer.
destructive locknut, It's not something I've heard of before. I wonder
if it was poor quality hardware. I was reading recently about a guy that
was rebuilding the diff and final drive in his car and decided to use
new bolts for the CW fixing but they failed when tightened before he
reach the correct torque, apparently made in Asia, he re-used the
original ones in the end and no problems.
"Bob La Londe"Â wrote in message news:uvc4o3$2hrcg$1@dont-email.me...
The u-bolts that came with the new axles came with the destructive style
lock nuts.
-------------------------
Google isn't telling me what a "destructive" lock nut is.
On 4/12/2024 1:26 PM, David Billington wrote:
On 12/04/2024 21:14, Bob La Londe wrote:
I recently had to install new axles on a trailer in order to getGood to hear no serious damage or injury. What do you mean by a
working brakes on the trailer... Don't lecture me about how you
could have done this or that and not replaced them. They were
oddballs and I wasted a couple weeks looking for other solutions.
The u-bolts that came with the new axles came with the destructive
style lock nuts. I don't mind to much. I hoped to never have to deal
with this again on this trailer anyway. On my second run to go pick
up a truck and haul it halfway across the state over some mountains
and some modestly substantial grades and weave through the Salt
River Canyon two nuts came off.
When the nuts came off I don't know, but when I went over a bump the
axle popped off the springs and the tire slammed into the tire
behind. I had just hit 65 mph and it suddenly felt wrong. I was
running empty and all of a sudden it felt like I was running with a
load. I glanced at the mirror and smoke was pouring off those tires
so bad I thought a hub was on fire. Fortunately, there was on old
stock yard just ahead with a lot of flat ground out front where I
was able to safely pull out somewhere west of Coolidge. The axle
coming loose turned out to be an easy fix. Since I was still running
empty I just jacked the side of the trailer up, rolled the axle back
in place, and ratchet strapped it tight. Then I whipped out my cell
phone and entered NEAREST HARDWARE STORE into the search window.
The U-bolt that had fallen off was just barely hanging onto the axle
still by the extra friction of the threads. The other U-bolt was
still attached to the cross plate by the nuts. At least I wasn't
wondering where in small town Arizona I was going to find U-bolts.
There was a Tractor Supply store in Coolidge that had TWO (2) (just
two) 9/16 fine nuts. They were in the wrong bin, but I found them.
With that, a couple fresh lock washers, and copious amounts of red
high strength Permatex thread locker I crawled under the trailer in
the parking lot to fix it.
Coming back I stopped and checked the trailer and my load at every
brake check lane and pullout. With a 3/4 ton Dodge w/ Cummins on the
back I made it back through the mountains and across the Salt River
Canyon almost with out incident. Somewhere on a long flat Southwest
of Globe/Miami I glanced in the mirror to see one of the hooks for a
front strap laying on the trailer deck. The strap broke where it
went over the frame. Fortunately I had left the winch cable tight
or I might have lost the truck.
I'm too old for this sort of adventure. I prepared for everything I
could think of. Brought tools, and materials for emergencies, and
did everything I could think of to prevent problems before setting out.
Yes, the nuts were torqued down properly both times. LOL.
Yeah, I know... there are plenty among you who can tell me
everything they think I did wrong, but at the end I made it home.
Now I have to get that truck back off the trailer.
destructive locknut, It's not something I've heard of before. I
wonder if it was poor quality hardware. I was reading recently about
a guy that was rebuilding the diff and final drive in his car and
decided to use new bolts for the CW fixing but they failed when
tightened before he reach the correct torque, apparently made in
Asia, he re-used the original ones in the end and no problems.
I know you guys have to know what I am talking about. There is a type
of lock nut that is dimpled or punched that partially mangles the
threads when installed to lock it in place. These have square punch
marks on the flat.
On 4/12/2024 1:26 PM, David Billington wrote:
On 12/04/2024 21:14, Bob La Londe wrote:
I recently had to install new axles on a trailer in order to getGood to hear no serious damage or injury. What do you mean by a
working brakes on the trailer... Don't lecture me about how you could
have done this or that and not replaced them. They were oddballs and
I wasted a couple weeks looking for other solutions.
The u-bolts that came with the new axles came with the destructive
style lock nuts. I don't mind to much. I hoped to never have to deal
with this again on this trailer anyway. On my second run to go pick
up a truck and haul it halfway across the state over some mountains
and some modestly substantial grades and weave through the Salt River
Canyon two nuts came off.
When the nuts came off I don't know, but when I went over a bump the
axle popped off the springs and the tire slammed into the tire
behind. I had just hit 65 mph and it suddenly felt wrong. I was
running empty and all of a sudden it felt like I was running with a
load. I glanced at the mirror and smoke was pouring off those tires
so bad I thought a hub was on fire. Fortunately, there was on old
stock yard just ahead with a lot of flat ground out front where I was
able to safely pull out somewhere west of Coolidge. The axle coming
loose turned out to be an easy fix. Since I was still running empty I
just jacked the side of the trailer up, rolled the axle back in
place, and ratchet strapped it tight. Then I whipped out my cell
phone and entered NEAREST HARDWARE STORE into the search window.
The U-bolt that had fallen off was just barely hanging onto the axle
still by the extra friction of the threads. The other U-bolt was
still attached to the cross plate by the nuts. At least I wasn't
wondering where in small town Arizona I was going to find U-bolts.
There was a Tractor Supply store in Coolidge that had TWO (2) (just
two) 9/16 fine nuts. They were in the wrong bin, but I found them.
With that, a couple fresh lock washers, and copious amounts of red
high strength Permatex thread locker I crawled under the trailer in
the parking lot to fix it.
Coming back I stopped and checked the trailer and my load at every
brake check lane and pullout. With a 3/4 ton Dodge w/ Cummins on the
back I made it back through the mountains and across the Salt River
Canyon almost with out incident. Somewhere on a long flat Southwest
of Globe/Miami I glanced in the mirror to see one of the hooks for a
front strap laying on the trailer deck. The strap broke where it went
over the frame. Fortunately I had left the winch cable tight or I
might have lost the truck.
I'm too old for this sort of adventure. I prepared for everything I
could think of. Brought tools, and materials for emergencies, and did
everything I could think of to prevent problems before setting out.
Yes, the nuts were torqued down properly both times. LOL.
Yeah, I know... there are plenty among you who can tell me everything
they think I did wrong, but at the end I made it home. Now I have to
get that truck back off the trailer.
destructive locknut, It's not something I've heard of before. I wonder
if it was poor quality hardware. I was reading recently about a guy
that was rebuilding the diff and final drive in his car and decided to
use new bolts for the CW fixing but they failed when tightened before
he reach the correct torque, apparently made in Asia, he re-used the
original ones in the end and no problems.
I know you guys have to know what I am talking about. There is a type
of lock nut that is dimpled or punched that partially mangles the
threads when installed to lock it in place. These have square punch
marks on the flat.
On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
wrote:
On 4/12/2024 1:26 PM, David Billington wrote:
On 12/04/2024 21:14, Bob La Londe wrote:
I recently had to install new axles on a trailer in order to getGood to hear no serious damage or injury. What do you mean by a
working brakes on the trailer... Don't lecture me about how you could
have done this or that and not replaced them. They were oddballs and I >>>> wasted a couple weeks looking for other solutions.
The u-bolts that came with the new axles came with the destructive
style lock nuts. I don't mind to much. I hoped to never have to deal
with this again on this trailer anyway. On my second run to go pick up >>>> a truck and haul it halfway across the state over some mountains and
some modestly substantial grades and weave through the Salt River
Canyon two nuts came off.
When the nuts came off I don't know, but when I went over a bump the
axle popped off the springs and the tire slammed into the tire behind. >>>> I had just hit 65 mph and it suddenly felt wrong. I was running empty
and all of a sudden it felt like I was running with a load. I glanced
at the mirror and smoke was pouring off those tires so bad I thought a >>>> hub was on fire. Fortunately, there was on old stock yard just ahead
with a lot of flat ground out front where I was able to safely pull
out somewhere west of Coolidge. The axle coming loose turned out to be >>>> an easy fix. Since I was still running empty I just jacked the side of >>>> the trailer up, rolled the axle back in place, and ratchet strapped it >>>> tight. Then I whipped out my cell phone and entered NEAREST HARDWARE
STORE into the search window.
The U-bolt that had fallen off was just barely hanging onto the axle
still by the extra friction of the threads. The other U-bolt was still >>>> attached to the cross plate by the nuts. At least I wasn't wondering
where in small town Arizona I was going to find U-bolts.
There was a Tractor Supply store in Coolidge that had TWO (2) (just
two) 9/16 fine nuts. They were in the wrong bin, but I found them.
With that, a couple fresh lock washers, and copious amounts of red
high strength Permatex thread locker I crawled under the trailer in
the parking lot to fix it.
Coming back I stopped and checked the trailer and my load at every
brake check lane and pullout. With a 3/4 ton Dodge w/ Cummins on the
back I made it back through the mountains and across the Salt River
Canyon almost with out incident. Somewhere on a long flat Southwest of >>>> Globe/Miami I glanced in the mirror to see one of the hooks for a
front strap laying on the trailer deck. The strap broke where it went
over the frame. Fortunately I had left the winch cable tight or I
might have lost the truck.
I'm too old for this sort of adventure. I prepared for everything I
could think of. Brought tools, and materials for emergencies, and did
everything I could think of to prevent problems before setting out.
Yes, the nuts were torqued down properly both times. LOL.
Yeah, I know... there are plenty among you who can tell me everything
they think I did wrong, but at the end I made it home. Now I have to
get that truck back off the trailer.
destructive locknut, It's not something I've heard of before. I wonder
if it was poor quality hardware. I was reading recently about a guy that >>> was rebuilding the diff and final drive in his car and decided to use
new bolts for the CW fixing but they failed when tightened before he
reach the correct torque, apparently made in Asia, he re-used the
original ones in the end and no problems.
I know you guys have to know what I am talking about. There is a type
of lock nut that is dimpled or punched that partially mangles the
threads when installed to lock it in place. These have square punch
marks on the flat.
You probably want a bronze or stainless steel Drake two-piece Lock
Nut:
.<https://www.lok-mor.com/products/free-spinning/drake/>
Joe Gwinn
On 4/12/2024 1:26 PM, David Billington wrote:
On 12/04/2024 21:14, Bob La Londe wrote:
I recently had to install new axles on a trailer in order to getGood to hear no serious damage or injury. What do you mean by a
working brakes on the trailer... Don't lecture me about how you could
have done this or that and not replaced them. They were oddballs and I
wasted a couple weeks looking for other solutions.
The u-bolts that came with the new axles came with the destructive
style lock nuts. I don't mind to much. I hoped to never have to deal
with this again on this trailer anyway. On my second run to go pick up
a truck and haul it halfway across the state over some mountains and
some modestly substantial grades and weave through the Salt River
Canyon two nuts came off.
When the nuts came off I don't know, but when I went over a bump the
axle popped off the springs and the tire slammed into the tire behind.
I had just hit 65 mph and it suddenly felt wrong. I was running empty
and all of a sudden it felt like I was running with a load. I glanced
at the mirror and smoke was pouring off those tires so bad I thought a
hub was on fire. Fortunately, there was on old stock yard just ahead
with a lot of flat ground out front where I was able to safely pull
out somewhere west of Coolidge. The axle coming loose turned out to be
an easy fix. Since I was still running empty I just jacked the side of
the trailer up, rolled the axle back in place, and ratchet strapped it
tight. Then I whipped out my cell phone and entered NEAREST HARDWARE
STORE into the search window.
The U-bolt that had fallen off was just barely hanging onto the axle
still by the extra friction of the threads. The other U-bolt was still
attached to the cross plate by the nuts. At least I wasn't wondering
where in small town Arizona I was going to find U-bolts.
There was a Tractor Supply store in Coolidge that had TWO (2) (just
two) 9/16 fine nuts. They were in the wrong bin, but I found them.
With that, a couple fresh lock washers, and copious amounts of red
high strength Permatex thread locker I crawled under the trailer in
the parking lot to fix it.
Coming back I stopped and checked the trailer and my load at every
brake check lane and pullout. With a 3/4 ton Dodge w/ Cummins on the
back I made it back through the mountains and across the Salt River
Canyon almost with out incident. Somewhere on a long flat Southwest of
Globe/Miami I glanced in the mirror to see one of the hooks for a
front strap laying on the trailer deck. The strap broke where it went
over the frame. Fortunately I had left the winch cable tight or I
might have lost the truck.
I'm too old for this sort of adventure. I prepared for everything I
could think of. Brought tools, and materials for emergencies, and did
everything I could think of to prevent problems before setting out.
Yes, the nuts were torqued down properly both times. LOL.
Yeah, I know... there are plenty among you who can tell me everything
they think I did wrong, but at the end I made it home. Now I have to
get that truck back off the trailer.
destructive locknut, It's not something I've heard of before. I wonder
if it was poor quality hardware. I was reading recently about a guy that
was rebuilding the diff and final drive in his car and decided to use
new bolts for the CW fixing but they failed when tightened before he
reach the correct torque, apparently made in Asia, he re-used the
original ones in the end and no problems.
I know you guys have to know what I am talking about. There is a type
of lock nut that is dimpled or punched that partially mangles the
threads when installed to lock it in place. These have square punch
marks on the flat.
On 4/12/2024 1:26 PM, David Billington wrote:They are called a "prevailing torque" "top distortion" nut -or a
On 12/04/2024 21:14, Bob La Londe wrote:
I recently had to install new axles on a trailer in order to getGood to hear no serious damage or injury. What do you mean by a
working brakes on the trailer... Don't lecture me about how you could
have done this or that and not replaced them. They were oddballs and I
wasted a couple weeks looking for other solutions.
The u-bolts that came with the new axles came with the destructive
style lock nuts. I don't mind to much. I hoped to never have to deal
with this again on this trailer anyway. On my second run to go pick up
a truck and haul it halfway across the state over some mountains and
some modestly substantial grades and weave through the Salt River
Canyon two nuts came off.
When the nuts came off I don't know, but when I went over a bump the
axle popped off the springs and the tire slammed into the tire behind.
I had just hit 65 mph and it suddenly felt wrong. I was running empty
and all of a sudden it felt like I was running with a load. I glanced
at the mirror and smoke was pouring off those tires so bad I thought a
hub was on fire. Fortunately, there was on old stock yard just ahead
with a lot of flat ground out front where I was able to safely pull
out somewhere west of Coolidge. The axle coming loose turned out to be
an easy fix. Since I was still running empty I just jacked the side of
the trailer up, rolled the axle back in place, and ratchet strapped it
tight. Then I whipped out my cell phone and entered NEAREST HARDWARE
STORE into the search window.
The U-bolt that had fallen off was just barely hanging onto the axle
still by the extra friction of the threads. The other U-bolt was still
attached to the cross plate by the nuts. At least I wasn't wondering
where in small town Arizona I was going to find U-bolts.
There was a Tractor Supply store in Coolidge that had TWO (2) (just
two) 9/16 fine nuts. They were in the wrong bin, but I found them.
With that, a couple fresh lock washers, and copious amounts of red
high strength Permatex thread locker I crawled under the trailer in
the parking lot to fix it.
Coming back I stopped and checked the trailer and my load at every
brake check lane and pullout. With a 3/4 ton Dodge w/ Cummins on the
back I made it back through the mountains and across the Salt River
Canyon almost with out incident. Somewhere on a long flat Southwest of
Globe/Miami I glanced in the mirror to see one of the hooks for a
front strap laying on the trailer deck. The strap broke where it went
over the frame. Fortunately I had left the winch cable tight or I
might have lost the truck.
I'm too old for this sort of adventure. I prepared for everything I
could think of. Brought tools, and materials for emergencies, and did
everything I could think of to prevent problems before setting out.
Yes, the nuts were torqued down properly both times. LOL.
Yeah, I know... there are plenty among you who can tell me everything
they think I did wrong, but at the end I made it home. Now I have to
get that truck back off the trailer.
destructive locknut, It's not something I've heard of before. I wonder
if it was poor quality hardware. I was reading recently about a guy that
was rebuilding the diff and final drive in his car and decided to use
new bolts for the CW fixing but they failed when tightened before he
reach the correct torque, apparently made in Asia, he re-used the
original ones in the end and no problems.
I know you guys have to know what I am talking about. There is a type
of lock nut that is dimpled or punched that partially mangles the
threads when installed to lock it in place. These have square punch
marks on the flat.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 08:05:57 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
<muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
"Snag" wrote in message news:uvcbh7$2jb8r$1@dont-email.me...
On 4/12/2024 5:01 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
wrote:
You probably want a bronze or stainless steel Drake two-piece Lock
Nut:
.<https://www.lok-mor.com/products/free-spinning/drake/>
Joe Gwinn
Looks a lot like a 40 dollar solution for a 2 dollar problem , Joe ...
Snag
------------------------------------
I look for reliable methods using easily available hardware or auto store
products, such as doubled nuts. If necessary they can be modified on the
lathe or drilled for safety wire.
The OP was complaining that nothing he tried really worked, causing
danger to man and beast, and not so much about the cost of the
hardware, and Drake Nuts are the gold standard. They simply don't
shake loose. Finger tight causes noticeable locking.
Failing that, I'd try a thick nut and a jam nut tightened hard against
one another. And Loctite don't hurt. I recall from a study I read
that one puts the jam nut under the thick nut for best shake
resistance. Lok-Mor may have the study I recall, or it was an old
NASA study.
Joe Gwinn
"Snag" wrote in message news:uvcbh7$2jb8r$1@dont-email.me...
On 4/12/2024 5:01 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
wrote:
You probably want a bronze or stainless steel Drake two-piece Lock
Nut:
.<https://www.lok-mor.com/products/free-spinning/drake/>
Joe Gwinn
Looks a lot like a 40 dollar solution for a 2 dollar problem , Joe ...
Snag
------------------------------------
I look for reliable methods using easily available hardware or auto store >products, such as doubled nuts. If necessary they can be modified on the >lathe or drilled for safety wire.
On 4/13/2024 11:25 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 08:05:57 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
<muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
"Snag" wrote in message news:uvcbh7$2jb8r$1@dont-email.me...
On 4/12/2024 5:01 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
wrote:
You probably want a bronze or stainless steel Drake two-piece Lock
Nut:
.<https://www.lok-mor.com/products/free-spinning/drake/>
Joe Gwinn
Looks a lot like a 40 dollar solution for a 2 dollar problem , Joe ...
Snag
------------------------------------
I look for reliable methods using easily available hardware or auto store >>> products, such as doubled nuts. If necessary they can be modified on the >>> lathe or drilled for safety wire.
The OP was complaining that nothing he tried really worked, causing
danger to man and beast, and not so much about the cost of the
hardware, and Drake Nuts are the gold standard. They simply don't
shake loose. Finger tight causes noticeable locking.
Failing that, I'd try a thick nut and a jam nut tightened hard against
one another. And Loctite don't hurt. I recall from a study I read
that one puts the jam nut under the thick nut for best shake
resistance. Lok-Mor may have the study I recall, or it was an old
NASA study.
Joe Gwinn
Well, I didn't actually say that.
.... Just that two of the nuts came off
for no good reason. I did install regular Gr-8 nuts and lock washers
with red Permatex thread locker to finish my adventure. Afterwards it
made the trip up up to Globe/Miami over the mountains, down and back up >through Salt River Canyon, and then on up and down the grades into Show
Low. There I loaded a full size 3/4 ton diesel pickup and made the
reverse trip braking and engine braking up and down some modestly steep >inclines. Enough so that there were brake check areas and emergency
runaway pullouts.
This morning I ordered a box of each of gr-8 lock washers and nuts. The
cost of which was about the same (a little less) as the couple items I
bought at the Tractor Supply store in Coolidge to make repairs. Before
I make another such trip I'll be replacing all the lock nuts with
regular GR-8 nuts and high strength thread locker. As near as I can
tell the threads on the u-bolts are fine and they do not appear to have >stretched, but of course I didn't clamp them up and measure them. Two
of the original nuts just failed to hold. The new nuts did spin easily
into place (which surprised me).
These are a pair of six ton axles and they were not cheap. They were
just the closest to the correct size for the application that I could
find.
I've got a fair amount of faith in liquid thread locker. I've used
Permatex, Vibratite, and of course Loc-Tite brands with good results
over the years.
I'm not opposed to more expensive solutions. I just don't think its >necessary here. I did look at your link and I can see places it would
be useful.
On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 11:45:50 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
wrote:
On 4/13/2024 11:25 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 08:05:57 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
<muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
"Snag" wrote in message news:uvcbh7$2jb8r$1@dont-email.me...
On 4/12/2024 5:01 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
wrote:
You probably want a bronze or stainless steel Drake two-piece Lock
Nut:
.<https://www.lok-mor.com/products/free-spinning/drake/>
Joe Gwinn
Looks a lot like a 40 dollar solution for a 2 dollar problem , Joe ... >>>> Snag
------------------------------------
I look for reliable methods using easily available hardware or auto store >>>> products, such as doubled nuts. If necessary they can be modified on the >>>> lathe or drilled for safety wire.
The OP was complaining that nothing he tried really worked, causing
danger to man and beast, and not so much about the cost of the
hardware, and Drake Nuts are the gold standard. They simply don't
shake loose. Finger tight causes noticeable locking.
Failing that, I'd try a thick nut and a jam nut tightened hard against
one another. And Loctite don't hurt. I recall from a study I read
that one puts the jam nut under the thick nut for best shake
resistance. Lok-Mor may have the study I recall, or it was an old
NASA study.
Joe Gwinn
Well, I didn't actually say that.
True, not those words, but this:
"Somewhere on a long flat Southwest of Globe/Miami I glanced in the
mirror to see one of the hooks for a front strap laying on the trailer
deck. The strap broke where it went over the frame. Fortunately I had
left the winch cable tight or I might have lost the truck."
Losing the truck on the highway is likely to cause a accident, and
maybe a double accident (the departing truck may go sidewise,
destabilizing the truck pulling or carrying everything). Free-range
rolling truck tires are bad enough. Bloodcurdling.
This would have terrified me for sure.
.... Just that two of the nuts came off
for no good reason. I did install regular Gr-8 nuts and lock washers
with red Permatex thread locker to finish my adventure. Afterwards it
made the trip up up to Globe/Miami over the mountains, down and back up
through Salt River Canyon, and then on up and down the grades into Show
Low. There I loaded a full size 3/4 ton diesel pickup and made the
reverse trip braking and engine braking up and down some modestly steep
inclines. Enough so that there were brake check areas and emergency
runaway pullouts.
This morning I ordered a box of each of gr-8 lock washers and nuts. The
cost of which was about the same (a little less) as the couple items I
bought at the Tractor Supply store in Coolidge to make repairs. Before
I make another such trip I'll be replacing all the lock nuts with
regular GR-8 nuts and high strength thread locker. As near as I can
tell the threads on the u-bolts are fine and they do not appear to have
stretched, but of course I didn't clamp them up and measure them. Two
of the original nuts just failed to hold. The new nuts did spin easily
into place (which surprised me).
These are a pair of six ton axles and they were not cheap. They were
just the closest to the correct size for the application that I could
find.
I've got a fair amount of faith in liquid thread locker. I've used
Permatex, Vibratite, and of course Loc-Tite brands with good results
over the years.
I'm not opposed to more expensive solutions. I just don't think its
necessary here. I did look at your link and I can see places it would
be useful.
I would submit that compared to the cost of an accident, a few Drake
Nuts are insignificant.
By the way, Drake Nuts were invented in the 1910s, US 1,271,449.
And the analysis I couldn't remember was published in July 1922, and
did compare the Drake Nut with the thin jam nut with regular nut (with
jam nut between the big nut and whatever is being clamped). Drake
Nuts worked regardless, but the big nut and jam nut assembly would
shake loose. But this was before Loctite; this ought to work. The
distorted nuts were also analyzed, and didn't win.
Joe
On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 11:45:50 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
wrote:
On 4/13/2024 11:25 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 08:05:57 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
<muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
"Snag" wrote in message news:uvcbh7$2jb8r$1@dont-email.me...
On 4/12/2024 5:01 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
wrote:
You probably want a bronze or stainless steel Drake two-piece Lock
Nut:
.<https://www.lok-mor.com/products/free-spinning/drake/>
Joe Gwinn
Looks a lot like a 40 dollar solution for a 2 dollar problem , Joe ... >>>> Snag
------------------------------------
I look for reliable methods using easily available hardware or auto store >>>> products, such as doubled nuts. If necessary they can be modified on the >>>> lathe or drilled for safety wire.
The OP was complaining that nothing he tried really worked, causing
danger to man and beast, and not so much about the cost of the
hardware, and Drake Nuts are the gold standard. They simply don't
shake loose. Finger tight causes noticeable locking.
Failing that, I'd try a thick nut and a jam nut tightened hard against
one another. And Loctite don't hurt. I recall from a study I read
that one puts the jam nut under the thick nut for best shake
resistance. Lok-Mor may have the study I recall, or it was an old
NASA study.
Joe Gwinn
Well, I didn't actually say that.
True, not those words, but this:
"Somewhere on a long flat Southwest of Globe/Miami I glanced in the
mirror to see one of the hooks for a front strap laying on the trailer
deck. The strap broke where it went over the frame. Fortunately I had
left the winch cable tight or I might have lost the truck."
Losing the truck on the highway is likely to cause a accident, and
maybe a double accident (the departing truck may go sidewise,
destabilizing the truck pulling or carrying everything). Free-range
rolling truck tires are bad enough. Bloodcurdling.
This would have terrified me for sure.
.... Just that two of the nuts came off
for no good reason. I did install regular Gr-8 nuts and lock washers
with red Permatex thread locker to finish my adventure. Afterwards it
made the trip up up to Globe/Miami over the mountains, down and back up >>through Salt River Canyon, and then on up and down the grades into Show >>Low. There I loaded a full size 3/4 ton diesel pickup and made the
reverse trip braking and engine braking up and down some modestly steep >>inclines. Enough so that there were brake check areas and emergency >>runaway pullouts.
This morning I ordered a box of each of gr-8 lock washers and nuts. The >>cost of which was about the same (a little less) as the couple items I >>bought at the Tractor Supply store in Coolidge to make repairs. Before
I make another such trip I'll be replacing all the lock nuts with
regular GR-8 nuts and high strength thread locker. As near as I can
tell the threads on the u-bolts are fine and they do not appear to have >>stretched, but of course I didn't clamp them up and measure them. Two
of the original nuts just failed to hold. The new nuts did spin easily
into place (which surprised me).
These are a pair of six ton axles and they were not cheap. They were
just the closest to the correct size for the application that I could
find.
I've got a fair amount of faith in liquid thread locker. I've used >>Permatex, Vibratite, and of course Loc-Tite brands with good results
over the years.
I'm not opposed to more expensive solutions. I just don't think its >>necessary here. I did look at your link and I can see places it would
be useful.
I would submit that compared to the cost of an accident, a few Drake
Nuts are insignificant.
By the way, Drake Nuts were invented in the 1910s, US 1,271,449.For suspension bolts I like flanged locknuts. NEVER split lock
And the analysis I couldn't remember was published in July 1922, and
did compare the Drake Nut with the thin jam nut with regular nut (with
jam nut between the big nut and whatever is being clamped). Drake
Nuts worked regardless, but the big nut and jam nut assembly would
shake loose. But this was before Loctite; this ought to work. The
distorted nuts were also analyzed, and didn't win.
Joe
On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 18:16:20 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 11:45:50 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>For suspension bolts I like flanged locknuts. NEVER split lock
wrote:
On 4/13/2024 11:25 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 08:05:57 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
<muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
"Snag" wrote in message news:uvcbh7$2jb8r$1@dont-email.me...
On 4/12/2024 5:01 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> >>>>>> wrote:
You probably want a bronze or stainless steel Drake two-piece Lock >>>>>> Nut:
.<https://www.lok-mor.com/products/free-spinning/drake/>
Joe Gwinn
Looks a lot like a 40 dollar solution for a 2 dollar problem , Joe ... >>>>> Snag
------------------------------------
I look for reliable methods using easily available hardware or auto store >>>>> products, such as doubled nuts. If necessary they can be modified on the >>>>> lathe or drilled for safety wire.
The OP was complaining that nothing he tried really worked, causing
danger to man and beast, and not so much about the cost of the
hardware, and Drake Nuts are the gold standard. They simply don't
shake loose. Finger tight causes noticeable locking.
Failing that, I'd try a thick nut and a jam nut tightened hard against >>>> one another. And Loctite don't hurt. I recall from a study I read
that one puts the jam nut under the thick nut for best shake
resistance. Lok-Mor may have the study I recall, or it was an old
NASA study.
Joe Gwinn
Well, I didn't actually say that.
True, not those words, but this:
"Somewhere on a long flat Southwest of Globe/Miami I glanced in the
mirror to see one of the hooks for a front strap laying on the trailer >>deck. The strap broke where it went over the frame. Fortunately I had
left the winch cable tight or I might have lost the truck."
Losing the truck on the highway is likely to cause a accident, and
maybe a double accident (the departing truck may go sidewise,
destabilizing the truck pulling or carrying everything). Free-range
rolling truck tires are bad enough. Bloodcurdling.
This would have terrified me for sure.
.... Just that two of the nuts came off
for no good reason. I did install regular Gr-8 nuts and lock washers >>>with red Permatex thread locker to finish my adventure. Afterwards it >>>made the trip up up to Globe/Miami over the mountains, down and back up >>>through Salt River Canyon, and then on up and down the grades into Show >>>Low. There I loaded a full size 3/4 ton diesel pickup and made the >>>reverse trip braking and engine braking up and down some modestly steep >>>inclines. Enough so that there were brake check areas and emergency >>>runaway pullouts.
This morning I ordered a box of each of gr-8 lock washers and nuts. The >>>cost of which was about the same (a little less) as the couple items I >>>bought at the Tractor Supply store in Coolidge to make repairs. Before
I make another such trip I'll be replacing all the lock nuts with
regular GR-8 nuts and high strength thread locker. As near as I can
tell the threads on the u-bolts are fine and they do not appear to have >>>stretched, but of course I didn't clamp them up and measure them. Two
of the original nuts just failed to hold. The new nuts did spin easily >>>into place (which surprised me).
These are a pair of six ton axles and they were not cheap. They were >>>just the closest to the correct size for the application that I could >>>find.
I've got a fair amount of faith in liquid thread locker. I've used >>>Permatex, Vibratite, and of course Loc-Tite brands with good results
over the years.
I'm not opposed to more expensive solutions. I just don't think its >>>necessary here. I did look at your link and I can see places it would
be useful.
I would submit that compared to the cost of an accident, a few Drake
Nuts are insignificant.
By the way, Drake Nuts were invented in the 1910s, US 1,271,449.
And the analysis I couldn't remember was published in July 1922, and
did compare the Drake Nut with the thin jam nut with regular nut (with
jam nut between the big nut and whatever is being clamped). Drake
Nuts worked regardless, but the big nut and jam nut assembly would
shake loose. But this was before Loctite; this ought to work. The >>distorted nuts were also analyzed, and didn't win.
Joe
washers!!.
A serated nut with attached serated washer (LoxNut) is the
cat's ass. WhizLock nuts are a close second - particularly when
installed with medium lock-tite.
Fijilok nuts work very well on adjustable threaded linkage - better
than NyLok
Flanged side distortion or top distortion nuts work well too -
particularly with medium lock-tite.
If you MUST use lock washers, Nord-Lock or Disk-Lock. Either one
requires 50% more torque to remove than the install torque (torque
stud to 100 lb/ft and it takes 150 to break it loose)
Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?
On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 21:39:58 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 18:16:20 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 11:45:50 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>For suspension bolts I like flanged locknuts. NEVER split lock
wrote:
On 4/13/2024 11:25 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 08:05:57 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
<muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
"Snag" wrote in message news:uvcbh7$2jb8r$1@dont-email.me...
On 4/12/2024 5:01 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> >>>>>>> wrote:
You probably want a bronze or stainless steel Drake two-piece Lock >>>>>>> Nut:
.<https://www.lok-mor.com/products/free-spinning/drake/>
Joe Gwinn
Looks a lot like a 40 dollar solution for a 2 dollar problem , Joe ... >>>>>> Snag
------------------------------------
I look for reliable methods using easily available hardware or auto store
products, such as doubled nuts. If necessary they can be modified on the >>>>>> lathe or drilled for safety wire.
The OP was complaining that nothing he tried really worked, causing
danger to man and beast, and not so much about the cost of the
hardware, and Drake Nuts are the gold standard. They simply don't
shake loose. Finger tight causes noticeable locking.
Failing that, I'd try a thick nut and a jam nut tightened hard against >>>>> one another. And Loctite don't hurt. I recall from a study I read
that one puts the jam nut under the thick nut for best shake
resistance. Lok-Mor may have the study I recall, or it was an old
NASA study.
Joe Gwinn
Well, I didn't actually say that.
True, not those words, but this:
"Somewhere on a long flat Southwest of Globe/Miami I glanced in the
mirror to see one of the hooks for a front strap laying on the trailer
deck. The strap broke where it went over the frame. Fortunately I had
left the winch cable tight or I might have lost the truck."
Losing the truck on the highway is likely to cause a accident, and
maybe a double accident (the departing truck may go sidewise,
destabilizing the truck pulling or carrying everything). Free-range
rolling truck tires are bad enough. Bloodcurdling.
This would have terrified me for sure.
.... Just that two of the nuts came off
for no good reason. I did install regular Gr-8 nuts and lock washers
with red Permatex thread locker to finish my adventure. Afterwards it >>>> made the trip up up to Globe/Miami over the mountains, down and back up >>>> through Salt River Canyon, and then on up and down the grades into Show >>>> Low. There I loaded a full size 3/4 ton diesel pickup and made the
reverse trip braking and engine braking up and down some modestly steep >>>> inclines. Enough so that there were brake check areas and emergency
runaway pullouts.
This morning I ordered a box of each of gr-8 lock washers and nuts. The >>>> cost of which was about the same (a little less) as the couple items I >>>> bought at the Tractor Supply store in Coolidge to make repairs. Before >>>> I make another such trip I'll be replacing all the lock nuts with
regular GR-8 nuts and high strength thread locker. As near as I can
tell the threads on the u-bolts are fine and they do not appear to have >>>> stretched, but of course I didn't clamp them up and measure them. Two >>>> of the original nuts just failed to hold. The new nuts did spin easily >>>> into place (which surprised me).
These are a pair of six ton axles and they were not cheap. They were
just the closest to the correct size for the application that I could
find.
I've got a fair amount of faith in liquid thread locker. I've used
Permatex, Vibratite, and of course Loc-Tite brands with good results
over the years.
I'm not opposed to more expensive solutions. I just don't think its
necessary here. I did look at your link and I can see places it would >>>> be useful.
I would submit that compared to the cost of an accident, a few Drake
Nuts are insignificant.
By the way, Drake Nuts were invented in the 1910s, US 1,271,449.
And the analysis I couldn't remember was published in July 1922, and
did compare the Drake Nut with the thin jam nut with regular nut (with
jam nut between the big nut and whatever is being clamped). Drake
Nuts worked regardless, but the big nut and jam nut assembly would
shake loose. But this was before Loctite; this ought to work. The
distorted nuts were also analyzed, and didn't win.
Joe
washers!!.
Agree - they are useless, as are the star lock washers.
A serated nut with attached serated washer (LoxNut) is the
cat's ass. WhizLock nuts are a close second - particularly when
installed with medium lock-tite.
Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?
WhizNut did work, and it's only for cases where the thing being
clamped is a good bit softer than the nut. <https://www.mcmaster.com/products/whiz-nuts/>
Fijilok nuts work very well on adjustable threaded linkage - better
than NyLok
Fijilok not found, buried under irrelevant stuff.
Flanged side distortion or top distortion nuts work well too -
particularly with medium lock-tite.
Do distorted nuts with loctite work better than plain nuts with
loctite?
If you MUST use lock washers, Nord-Lock or Disk-Lock. Either one
requires 50% more torque to remove than the install torque (torque
stud to 100 lb/ft and it takes 150 to break it loose)
Nord-Lock is very good. <https://www.nord-lock.com/en-us/>
I had to look Disk-Lock up. <https://www.sherex.com/>
It is the Nord-Lock system (whose patents must have expired by now),
cloned and maybe improved. I would assume that it is also very good.
But I do think that while expensive, Drake Nuts are a whole lot
better. But this is the right conversation to be having.
War story. A family member was towing a boat trailer, but had not
attached the safety chains properly. If that trailer came loose,
someone was going to die. Whereupon I put my foot down and made him
use beefy threaded quick links.
<https://www.mcmaster.com/products/quick-links/>
So, I'd also consider adding some safety chains.
Joe Gwinn
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
<snip>
Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?
Found this tidbit:
An-cor-lox nut has a ring of soft metal, such as soft steel or brass at the bottom of
the nut which turns on freely until the nut strikes the part.
I've also run into Spiralock, which looks quite interesting.
.<https://www.stanleyengineeredfastening.com/en/brands/Optia/Spiralock>
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 14:03:12 -0400, Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid>chrome&ie=UTF-8>
wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
<snip>
Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?
Found this tidbit:
An-cor-lox nut has a ring of soft metal, such as soft steel or brass at the bottom of
the nut which turns on freely until the nut strikes the part.
Found it: Page 74 of the following: >.<chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://delibra.bg.polsl.pl/Content/16769/P-779_1940_3_Vol107_WU_8.pdf>
.<https://www.google.com/search?q=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&oq=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIJCAEQIRgKGKABMgkIAhAhGAoYoAEyCQgDECEYChigATIJCAQQIRgKGKABMgkIBRAhGAoYoAHSAQk4Njc0ajBqMTWoAgCwAgA&sourceid=
No longer made. Company gone. Basically a soft copper washer that is >squished into contact with the bolt thread.Spiralock has gone out of fashion as they are a "single use" locknut
I've also run into Spiralock, which looks quite interesting.
.<https://www.stanleyengineeredfastening.com/en/brands/Optia/Spiralock>
Joe Gwinn
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400Different animal.
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
<snip>
Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?
Found this tidbit:
An-cor-lox nut has a ring of soft metal, such as soft steel or brass at the bottom of
the nut which turns on freely until the nut strikes the part.
On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 21:39:58 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 18:16:20 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 11:45:50 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>For suspension bolts I like flanged locknuts. NEVER split lock
wrote:
On 4/13/2024 11:25 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 08:05:57 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
<muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
"Snag" wrote in message news:uvcbh7$2jb8r$1@dont-email.me...
On 4/12/2024 5:01 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> >>>>>>> wrote:
You probably want a bronze or stainless steel Drake two-piece Lock >>>>>>> Nut:
.<https://www.lok-mor.com/products/free-spinning/drake/>
Joe Gwinn
Looks a lot like a 40 dollar solution for a 2 dollar problem , Joe ... >>>>>> Snag
------------------------------------
I look for reliable methods using easily available hardware or auto store
products, such as doubled nuts. If necessary they can be modified on the >>>>>> lathe or drilled for safety wire.
The OP was complaining that nothing he tried really worked, causing
danger to man and beast, and not so much about the cost of the
hardware, and Drake Nuts are the gold standard. They simply don't
shake loose. Finger tight causes noticeable locking.
Failing that, I'd try a thick nut and a jam nut tightened hard against >>>>> one another. And Loctite don't hurt. I recall from a study I read
that one puts the jam nut under the thick nut for best shake
resistance. Lok-Mor may have the study I recall, or it was an old
NASA study.
Joe Gwinn
Well, I didn't actually say that.
True, not those words, but this:
"Somewhere on a long flat Southwest of Globe/Miami I glanced in the >>>mirror to see one of the hooks for a front strap laying on the trailer >>>deck. The strap broke where it went over the frame. Fortunately I had >>>left the winch cable tight or I might have lost the truck."
Losing the truck on the highway is likely to cause a accident, and
maybe a double accident (the departing truck may go sidewise, >>>destabilizing the truck pulling or carrying everything). Free-range >>>rolling truck tires are bad enough. Bloodcurdling.
This would have terrified me for sure.
.... Just that two of the nuts came off
for no good reason. I did install regular Gr-8 nuts and lock washers >>>>with red Permatex thread locker to finish my adventure. Afterwards it >>>>made the trip up up to Globe/Miami over the mountains, down and back up >>>>through Salt River Canyon, and then on up and down the grades into Show >>>>Low. There I loaded a full size 3/4 ton diesel pickup and made the >>>>reverse trip braking and engine braking up and down some modestly steep >>>>inclines. Enough so that there were brake check areas and emergency >>>>runaway pullouts.
This morning I ordered a box of each of gr-8 lock washers and nuts. The >>>>cost of which was about the same (a little less) as the couple items I >>>>bought at the Tractor Supply store in Coolidge to make repairs. Before >>>>I make another such trip I'll be replacing all the lock nuts with >>>>regular GR-8 nuts and high strength thread locker. As near as I can >>>>tell the threads on the u-bolts are fine and they do not appear to have >>>>stretched, but of course I didn't clamp them up and measure them. Two >>>>of the original nuts just failed to hold. The new nuts did spin easily >>>>into place (which surprised me).
These are a pair of six ton axles and they were not cheap. They were >>>>just the closest to the correct size for the application that I could >>>>find.
I've got a fair amount of faith in liquid thread locker. I've used >>>>Permatex, Vibratite, and of course Loc-Tite brands with good results >>>>over the years.
I'm not opposed to more expensive solutions. I just don't think its >>>>necessary here. I did look at your link and I can see places it would >>>>be useful.
I would submit that compared to the cost of an accident, a few Drake
Nuts are insignificant.
By the way, Drake Nuts were invented in the 1910s, US 1,271,449.
And the analysis I couldn't remember was published in July 1922, and
did compare the Drake Nut with the thin jam nut with regular nut (with >>>jam nut between the big nut and whatever is being clamped). Drake
Nuts worked regardless, but the big nut and jam nut assembly would
shake loose. But this was before Loctite; this ought to work. The >>>distorted nuts were also analyzed, and didn't win.
Joe
washers!!.
Agree - they are useless, as are the star lock washers.
A serated nut with attached serated washer (LoxNut) is the
cat's ass. WhizLock nuts are a close second - particularly when
installed with medium lock-tite.
Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?
WhizNut did work, and it's only for cases where the thing being
clamped is a good bit softer than the nut. ><https://www.mcmaster.com/products/whiz-nuts/>
Fijilok nuts work very well on adjustable threaded linkage - better
than NyLok
Fijilok not found, buried under irrelevant stuff.
Flanged side distortion or top distortion nuts work well too - >>particularly with medium lock-tite.
Do distorted nuts with loctite work better than plain nuts with
loctite?
If you MUST use lock washers, Nord-Lock or Disk-Lock. Either one
requires 50% more torque to remove than the install torque (torque
stud to 100 lb/ft and it takes 150 to break it loose)
Nord-Lock is very good. <https://www.nord-lock.com/en-us/>
I had to look Disk-Lock up. <https://www.sherex.com/>
It is the Nord-Lock system (whose patents must have expired by now),
cloned and maybe improved. I would assume that it is also very good.
But I do think that while expensive, Drake Nuts are a whole lot
better. But this is the right conversation to be having.
War story. A family member was towing a boat trailer, but had not
attached the safety chains properly. If that trailer came loose,
someone was going to die. Whereupon I put my foot down and made him
use beefy threaded quick links.
<https://www.mcmaster.com/products/quick-links/>
So, I'd also consider adding some safety chains.
Joe GwinnI had a tent trailer jump off the ball once. Had good safety chains
On 4/14/2024 10:08 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 21:39:58 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 18:16:20 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 11:45:50 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>For suspension bolts I like flanged locknuts. NEVER split lock
wrote:
On 4/13/2024 11:25 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 08:05:57 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
<muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
"Snag" wrote in message news:uvcbh7$2jb8r$1@dont-email.me...
On 4/12/2024 5:01 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> >>>>>>>> wrote:
You probably want a bronze or stainless steel Drake two-piece Lock >>>>>>>> Nut:
.<https://www.lok-mor.com/products/free-spinning/drake/>
Joe Gwinn
Looks a lot like a 40 dollar solution for a 2 dollar problem , Joe ... >>>>>>> Snag
------------------------------------
I look for reliable methods using easily available hardware or auto store
products, such as doubled nuts. If necessary they can be modified on the
lathe or drilled for safety wire.
The OP was complaining that nothing he tried really worked, causing >>>>>> danger to man and beast, and not so much about the cost of the
hardware, and Drake Nuts are the gold standard. They simply don't >>>>>> shake loose. Finger tight causes noticeable locking.
Failing that, I'd try a thick nut and a jam nut tightened hard against >>>>>> one another. And Loctite don't hurt. I recall from a study I read >>>>>> that one puts the jam nut under the thick nut for best shake
resistance. Lok-Mor may have the study I recall, or it was an old >>>>>> NASA study.
Joe Gwinn
Well, I didn't actually say that.
True, not those words, but this:
"Somewhere on a long flat Southwest of Globe/Miami I glanced in the
mirror to see one of the hooks for a front strap laying on the trailer >>>> deck. The strap broke where it went over the frame. Fortunately I had >>>> left the winch cable tight or I might have lost the truck."
Losing the truck on the highway is likely to cause a accident, and
maybe a double accident (the departing truck may go sidewise,
destabilizing the truck pulling or carrying everything). Free-range
rolling truck tires are bad enough. Bloodcurdling.
This would have terrified me for sure.
.... Just that two of the nuts came off
for no good reason. I did install regular Gr-8 nuts and lock washers >>>>> with red Permatex thread locker to finish my adventure. Afterwards it >>>>> made the trip up up to Globe/Miami over the mountains, down and back up >>>>> through Salt River Canyon, and then on up and down the grades into Show >>>>> Low. There I loaded a full size 3/4 ton diesel pickup and made the
reverse trip braking and engine braking up and down some modestly steep >>>>> inclines. Enough so that there were brake check areas and emergency >>>>> runaway pullouts.
This morning I ordered a box of each of gr-8 lock washers and nuts. The >>>>> cost of which was about the same (a little less) as the couple items I >>>>> bought at the Tractor Supply store in Coolidge to make repairs. Before >>>>> I make another such trip I'll be replacing all the lock nuts with
regular GR-8 nuts and high strength thread locker. As near as I can >>>>> tell the threads on the u-bolts are fine and they do not appear to have >>>>> stretched, but of course I didn't clamp them up and measure them. Two >>>>> of the original nuts just failed to hold. The new nuts did spin easily >>>>> into place (which surprised me).
These are a pair of six ton axles and they were not cheap. They were >>>>> just the closest to the correct size for the application that I could >>>>> find.
I've got a fair amount of faith in liquid thread locker. I've used
Permatex, Vibratite, and of course Loc-Tite brands with good results >>>>> over the years.
I'm not opposed to more expensive solutions. I just don't think its >>>>> necessary here. I did look at your link and I can see places it would >>>>> be useful.
I would submit that compared to the cost of an accident, a few Drake
Nuts are insignificant.
By the way, Drake Nuts were invented in the 1910s, US 1,271,449.
And the analysis I couldn't remember was published in July 1922, and
did compare the Drake Nut with the thin jam nut with regular nut (with >>>> jam nut between the big nut and whatever is being clamped). Drake
Nuts worked regardless, but the big nut and jam nut assembly would
shake loose. But this was before Loctite; this ought to work. The
distorted nuts were also analyzed, and didn't win.
Joe
washers!!.
Agree - they are useless, as are the star lock washers.
A serated nut with attached serated washer (LoxNut) is the
cat's ass. WhizLock nuts are a close second - particularly when
installed with medium lock-tite.
Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?
WhizNut did work, and it's only for cases where the thing being
clamped is a good bit softer than the nut.
<https://www.mcmaster.com/products/whiz-nuts/>
Fijilok nuts work very well on adjustable threaded linkage - better
than NyLok
Fijilok not found, buried under irrelevant stuff.
Flanged side distortion or top distortion nuts work well too -
particularly with medium lock-tite.
Do distorted nuts with loctite work better than plain nuts with
loctite?
If you MUST use lock washers, Nord-Lock or Disk-Lock. Either one
requires 50% more torque to remove than the install torque (torque
stud to 100 lb/ft and it takes 150 to break it loose)
Nord-Lock is very good. <https://www.nord-lock.com/en-us/>
I had to look Disk-Lock up. <https://www.sherex.com/>
It is the Nord-Lock system (whose patents must have expired by now),
cloned and maybe improved. I would assume that it is also very good.
But I do think that while expensive, Drake Nuts are a whole lot
better. But this is the right conversation to be having.
War story. A family member was towing a boat trailer, but had not
attached the safety chains properly. If that trailer came loose,
someone was going to die. Whereupon I put my foot down and made him
use beefy threaded quick links.
<https://www.mcmaster.com/products/quick-links/>
So, I'd also consider adding some safety chains.
Joe Gwinn
Goose neck and straight pull trailers are required (DOT) to have safety >chains. This one has 3/8 chains and screw couplers. The chains are kind
of a pain and in the way in the bed of a truck on a goose neck. They
can even knock loose the electrical plug from the receptacle if one is
not careful. Interestingly a fifth wheel does not require safety
chains. More interestingly a clear definition of fifth wheel varies or
is unclear depending on where it is looked up. Even in legislative >definitions. Many are written in a manner that could include goose neck >hitches. Where it becomes even less clear as to what is and is not a
"fifth wheel" is when looking up the legality of towing RV doubles from
state to state.
--Isn't the difference the attatchment? Gooseneck uses a ball. (or
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 15:29:01 -0400
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
<snip>
I've also run into Spiralock, which looks quite interesting.
.<https://www.stanleyengineeredfastening.com/en/brands/Optia/Spiralock>
That is an interesting design.
IMO the biggest problem these items are trying to solve is for any
worker keeping a nut from coming loose.
Though I worked with guys who would keep that success rate very low?
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 15:29:01 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>chrome&ie=UTF-8>
wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 14:03:12 -0400, Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> >>wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
<snip>
Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?
Found this tidbit:
An-cor-lox nut has a ring of soft metal, such as soft steel or brass at the bottom of
the nut which turns on freely until the nut strikes the part.
Found it: Page 74 of the following: >>.<chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://delibra.bg.polsl.pl/Content/16769/P-779_1940_3_Vol107_WU_8.pdf>
.<https://www.google.com/search?q=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&oq=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIJCAEQIRgKGKABMgkIAhAhGAoYoAEyCQgDECEYChigATIJCAQQIRgKGKABMgkIBRAhGAoYoAHSAQk4Njc0ajBqMTWoAgCwAgA&sourceid=
Spiralock has gone out of fashion as they are a "single use" locknut
No longer made. Company gone. Basically a soft copper washer that is >>squished into contact with the bolt thread.
I've also run into Spiralock, which looks quite interesting.
.<https://www.stanleyengineeredfastening.com/en/brands/Optia/Spiralock>
Joe Gwinn
if I remember correctly from my Fiat Allis days - both nut and bolt to
be replaced at every use. Not an issue for NASA as NO bolt gets
re-used - - - but a pain when repairing a loader/backhoe in mud up to
your ankles- head first!!!
Their Key-Lock thread inserts work pretty good - never had one come
out with the bolt/stud unlike HeliCoil.
On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 00:12:31 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>chrome&ie=UTF-8>
wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 15:29:01 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 14:03:12 -0400, Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid>
wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400Found it: Page 74 of the following:
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
<snip>
Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?Found this tidbit:
An-cor-lox nut has a ring of soft metal, such as soft steel or brass at the bottom of
the nut which turns on freely until the nut strikes the part.
.<chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://delibra.bg.polsl.pl/Content/16769/P-779_1940_3_Vol107_WU_8.pdf>
.<https://www.google.com/search?q=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&oq=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIJCAEQIRgKGKABMgkIAhAhGAoYoAEyCQgDECEYChigATIJCAQQIRgKGKABMgkIBRAhGAoYoAHSAQk4Njc0ajBqMTWoAgCwAgA&sourceid=
I looked at the page and it reminded me of the Dardelet thread shown in Machinery's Handbook, the 21st edition at least which I have. I oftenGood point, although the nuts are pretty cheap, so one can afford toSpiralock has gone out of fashion as they are a "single use" locknut
No longer made. Company gone. Basically a soft copper washer that is
squished into contact with the bolt thread.
I've also run into Spiralock, which looks quite interesting.
.<https://www.stanleyengineeredfastening.com/en/brands/Optia/Spiralock>
Joe Gwinn
if I remember correctly from my Fiat Allis days - both nut and bolt to
be replaced at every use. Not an issue for NASA as NO bolt gets
re-used - - - but a pain when repairing a loader/backhoe in mud up to
your ankles- head first!!!
just replace them. The U-straps may also need to be replaced?
Their Key-Lock thread inserts work pretty good - never had one comeAnd you don't need to replace the thread insert after one use?
out with the bolt/stud unlike HeliCoil.
Joe Gwinn
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 21:39:58 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca> >>wrote:Can't beat "belt and suspenders" - but always MEDIUM thread lock - if
On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 18:16:20 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> >>>wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 11:45:50 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> >>>>wrote:For suspension bolts I like flanged locknuts. NEVER split lock >>>washers!!.
On 4/13/2024 11:25 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 08:05:57 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
<muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
"Snag" wrote in message news:uvcbh7$2jb8r$1@dont-email.me...
On 4/12/2024 5:01 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> >>>>>>>> wrote:
You probably want a bronze or stainless steel Drake two-piece Lock >>>>>>>> Nut:
.<https://www.lok-mor.com/products/free-spinning/drake/>
Joe Gwinn
Looks a lot like a 40 dollar solution for a 2 dollar problem , Joe ... >>>>>>> Snag
------------------------------------
I look for reliable methods using easily available hardware or auto store
products, such as doubled nuts. If necessary they can be modified on the
lathe or drilled for safety wire.
The OP was complaining that nothing he tried really worked, causing >>>>>> danger to man and beast, and not so much about the cost of the
hardware, and Drake Nuts are the gold standard. They simply don't >>>>>> shake loose. Finger tight causes noticeable locking.
Failing that, I'd try a thick nut and a jam nut tightened hard against >>>>>> one another. And Loctite don't hurt. I recall from a study I read >>>>>> that one puts the jam nut under the thick nut for best shake
resistance. Lok-Mor may have the study I recall, or it was an old >>>>>> NASA study.
Joe Gwinn
Well, I didn't actually say that.
True, not those words, but this:
"Somewhere on a long flat Southwest of Globe/Miami I glanced in the >>>>mirror to see one of the hooks for a front strap laying on the trailer >>>>deck. The strap broke where it went over the frame. Fortunately I had >>>>left the winch cable tight or I might have lost the truck."
Losing the truck on the highway is likely to cause a accident, and >>>>maybe a double accident (the departing truck may go sidewise, >>>>destabilizing the truck pulling or carrying everything). Free-range >>>>rolling truck tires are bad enough. Bloodcurdling.
This would have terrified me for sure.
.... Just that two of the nuts came off
for no good reason. I did install regular Gr-8 nuts and lock washers >>>>>with red Permatex thread locker to finish my adventure. Afterwards it >>>>>made the trip up up to Globe/Miami over the mountains, down and back up >>>>>through Salt River Canyon, and then on up and down the grades into Show >>>>>Low. There I loaded a full size 3/4 ton diesel pickup and made the >>>>>reverse trip braking and engine braking up and down some modestly steep >>>>>inclines. Enough so that there were brake check areas and emergency >>>>>runaway pullouts.
This morning I ordered a box of each of gr-8 lock washers and nuts. The >>>>>cost of which was about the same (a little less) as the couple items I >>>>>bought at the Tractor Supply store in Coolidge to make repairs. Before >>>>>I make another such trip I'll be replacing all the lock nuts with >>>>>regular GR-8 nuts and high strength thread locker. As near as I can >>>>>tell the threads on the u-bolts are fine and they do not appear to have >>>>>stretched, but of course I didn't clamp them up and measure them. Two >>>>>of the original nuts just failed to hold. The new nuts did spin easily >>>>>into place (which surprised me).
These are a pair of six ton axles and they were not cheap. They were >>>>>just the closest to the correct size for the application that I could >>>>>find.
I've got a fair amount of faith in liquid thread locker. I've used >>>>>Permatex, Vibratite, and of course Loc-Tite brands with good results >>>>>over the years.
I'm not opposed to more expensive solutions. I just don't think its >>>>>necessary here. I did look at your link and I can see places it would >>>>>be useful.
I would submit that compared to the cost of an accident, a few Drake >>>>Nuts are insignificant.
By the way, Drake Nuts were invented in the 1910s, US 1,271,449.
And the analysis I couldn't remember was published in July 1922, and >>>>did compare the Drake Nut with the thin jam nut with regular nut (with >>>>jam nut between the big nut and whatever is being clamped). Drake
Nuts worked regardless, but the big nut and jam nut assembly would >>>>shake loose. But this was before Loctite; this ought to work. The >>>>distorted nuts were also analyzed, and didn't win.
Joe
Agree - they are useless, as are the star lock washers.
A serated nut with attached serated washer (LoxNut) is the
cat's ass. WhizLock nuts are a close second - particularly when
installed with medium lock-tite.
Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?
WhizNut did work, and it's only for cases where the thing being
clamped is a good bit softer than the nut. >><https://www.mcmaster.com/products/whiz-nuts/>
Fijilok nuts work very well on adjustable threaded linkage - better
than NyLok
Fijilok not found, buried under irrelevant stuff.
Flanged side distortion or top distortion nuts work well too - >>>particularly with medium lock-tite.
Do distorted nuts with loctite work better than plain nuts with
loctite?
I need to get out the torch to release the thread lock I mayas well
burn the sucker off!!!
If you MUST use lock washers, Nord-Lock or Disk-Lock. Either one
requires 50% more torque to remove than the install torque (torque
stud to 100 lb/ft and it takes 150 to break it loose)
Nord-Lock is very good. <https://www.nord-lock.com/en-us/>
I had to look Disk-Lock up. <https://www.sherex.com/>
It is the Nord-Lock system (whose patents must have expired by now),
cloned and maybe improved. I would assume that it is also very good.
But I do think that while expensive, Drake Nuts are a whole lot
better. But this is the right conversation to be having.
Never seen a Drake before - ompressive.
Ever run into a Key-Lok? Equivalent to hitting the top thread with an
arc welder. That sucker is NEVER coming off - even if you want it
to!!!
War story. A family member was towing a boat trailer, but had not
attached the safety chains properly. If that trailer came loose,
someone was going to die. Whereupon I put my foot down and made him
use beefy threaded quick links.
<https://www.mcmaster.com/products/quick-links/>
So, I'd also consider adding some safety chains.
Joe Gwinn
I had a tent trailer jump off the ball once. Had good safety chains
crossed under the hitch but the tounge jack took the abuse. It had a
rubber tire on it and by the time I got stopped it was worn to a cone
shape after attempting to drag the trailer off to the curb. From then
on I always BOLTED the hitch latch - using a nylock nut. Still don't
know how the clevis pin got out or why the latch released - I'm
CERTAIN I latched it - - - -
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 10:48:04 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>
wrote:
On 4/14/2024 10:08 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 21:39:58 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 18:16:20 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 11:45:50 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99>For suspension bolts I like flanged locknuts. NEVER split lock
wrote:
On 4/13/2024 11:25 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 08:05:57 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
<muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
"Snag" wrote in message news:uvcbh7$2jb8r$1@dont-email.me...
On 4/12/2024 5:01 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
You probably want a bronze or stainless steel Drake two-piece Lock >>>>>>>>> Nut:
.<https://www.lok-mor.com/products/free-spinning/drake/>
Joe Gwinn
Looks a lot like a 40 dollar solution for a 2 dollar problem , Joe ... >>>>>>>> Snag
------------------------------------
I look for reliable methods using easily available hardware or auto store
products, such as doubled nuts. If necessary they can be modified on the
lathe or drilled for safety wire.
The OP was complaining that nothing he tried really worked, causing >>>>>>> danger to man and beast, and not so much about the cost of the
hardware, and Drake Nuts are the gold standard. They simply don't >>>>>>> shake loose. Finger tight causes noticeable locking.
Failing that, I'd try a thick nut and a jam nut tightened hard against >>>>>>> one another. And Loctite don't hurt. I recall from a study I read >>>>>>> that one puts the jam nut under the thick nut for best shake
resistance. Lok-Mor may have the study I recall, or it was an old >>>>>>> NASA study.
Joe Gwinn
Well, I didn't actually say that.
True, not those words, but this:
"Somewhere on a long flat Southwest of Globe/Miami I glanced in the
mirror to see one of the hooks for a front strap laying on the trailer >>>>> deck. The strap broke where it went over the frame. Fortunately I had >>>>> left the winch cable tight or I might have lost the truck."
Losing the truck on the highway is likely to cause a accident, and
maybe a double accident (the departing truck may go sidewise,
destabilizing the truck pulling or carrying everything). Free-range
rolling truck tires are bad enough. Bloodcurdling.
This would have terrified me for sure.
.... Just that two of the nuts came off
for no good reason. I did install regular Gr-8 nuts and lock washers >>>>>> with red Permatex thread locker to finish my adventure. Afterwards it >>>>>> made the trip up up to Globe/Miami over the mountains, down and back up >>>>>> through Salt River Canyon, and then on up and down the grades into Show >>>>>> Low. There I loaded a full size 3/4 ton diesel pickup and made the >>>>>> reverse trip braking and engine braking up and down some modestly steep >>>>>> inclines. Enough so that there were brake check areas and emergency >>>>>> runaway pullouts.
This morning I ordered a box of each of gr-8 lock washers and nuts. The >>>>>> cost of which was about the same (a little less) as the couple items I >>>>>> bought at the Tractor Supply store in Coolidge to make repairs. Before >>>>>> I make another such trip I'll be replacing all the lock nuts with
regular GR-8 nuts and high strength thread locker. As near as I can >>>>>> tell the threads on the u-bolts are fine and they do not appear to have >>>>>> stretched, but of course I didn't clamp them up and measure them. Two >>>>>> of the original nuts just failed to hold. The new nuts did spin easily >>>>>> into place (which surprised me).
These are a pair of six ton axles and they were not cheap. They were >>>>>> just the closest to the correct size for the application that I could >>>>>> find.
I've got a fair amount of faith in liquid thread locker. I've used >>>>>> Permatex, Vibratite, and of course Loc-Tite brands with good results >>>>>> over the years.
I'm not opposed to more expensive solutions. I just don't think its >>>>>> necessary here. I did look at your link and I can see places it would >>>>>> be useful.
I would submit that compared to the cost of an accident, a few Drake >>>>> Nuts are insignificant.
By the way, Drake Nuts were invented in the 1910s, US 1,271,449.
And the analysis I couldn't remember was published in July 1922, and >>>>> did compare the Drake Nut with the thin jam nut with regular nut (with >>>>> jam nut between the big nut and whatever is being clamped). Drake
Nuts worked regardless, but the big nut and jam nut assembly would
shake loose. But this was before Loctite; this ought to work. The
distorted nuts were also analyzed, and didn't win.
Joe
washers!!.
Agree - they are useless, as are the star lock washers.
A serated nut with attached serated washer (LoxNut) is the
cat's ass. WhizLock nuts are a close second - particularly when
installed with medium lock-tite.
Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?
WhizNut did work, and it's only for cases where the thing being
clamped is a good bit softer than the nut.
<https://www.mcmaster.com/products/whiz-nuts/>
Fijilok nuts work very well on adjustable threaded linkage - better
than NyLok
Fijilok not found, buried under irrelevant stuff.
Flanged side distortion or top distortion nuts work well too -
particularly with medium lock-tite.
Do distorted nuts with loctite work better than plain nuts with
loctite?
If you MUST use lock washers, Nord-Lock or Disk-Lock. Either one
requires 50% more torque to remove than the install torque (torque
stud to 100 lb/ft and it takes 150 to break it loose)
Nord-Lock is very good. <https://www.nord-lock.com/en-us/>
I had to look Disk-Lock up. <https://www.sherex.com/>
It is the Nord-Lock system (whose patents must have expired by now),
cloned and maybe improved. I would assume that it is also very good.
But I do think that while expensive, Drake Nuts are a whole lot
better. But this is the right conversation to be having.
War story. A family member was towing a boat trailer, but had not
attached the safety chains properly. If that trailer came loose,
someone was going to die. Whereupon I put my foot down and made him
use beefy threaded quick links.
<https://www.mcmaster.com/products/quick-links/>
So, I'd also consider adding some safety chains.
Joe Gwinn
Goose neck and straight pull trailers are required (DOT) to have safety
chains. This one has 3/8 chains and screw couplers. The chains are kind
of a pain and in the way in the bed of a truck on a goose neck. They
can even knock loose the electrical plug from the receptacle if one is
not careful. Interestingly a fifth wheel does not require safety
chains. More interestingly a clear definition of fifth wheel varies or
is unclear depending on where it is looked up. Even in legislative
definitions. Many are written in a manner that could include goose neck
hitches. Where it becomes even less clear as to what is and is not a
"fifth wheel" is when looking up the legality of towing RV doubles from
state to state.
--
Bob La Londe
CNC Molds N Stuff
Isn't the difference the attatchment? Gooseneck uses a ball. (or
possibly a pintle) while a "fifth wheel" uses a pin and latch on a
"horseshoe plate"
On 15/04/2024 16:26, Joe Gwinn wrote:chrome&ie=UTF-8>
On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 00:12:31 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 15:29:01 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 14:03:12 -0400, Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid>
wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400Found it: Page 74 of the following:
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
<snip>
Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?Found this tidbit:
An-cor-lox nut has a ring of soft metal, such as soft steel or brass at the bottom of
the nut which turns on freely until the nut strikes the part.
.<chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://delibra.bg.polsl.pl/Content/16769/P-779_1940_3_Vol107_WU_8.pdf>
.<https://www.google.com/search?q=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&oq=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIJCAEQIRgKGKABMgkIAhAhGAoYoAEyCQgDECEYChigATIJCAQQIRgKGKABMgkIBRAhGAoYoAHSAQk4Njc0ajBqMTWoAgCwAgA&sourceid=
Good point, although the nuts are pretty cheap, so one can afford toSpiralock has gone out of fashion as they are a "single use" locknut
No longer made. Company gone. Basically a soft copper washer that is >>>> squished into contact with the bolt thread.
I've also run into Spiralock, which looks quite interesting.
.<https://www.stanleyengineeredfastening.com/en/brands/Optia/Spiralock> >>>>
Joe Gwinn
if I remember correctly from my Fiat Allis days - both nut and bolt to
be replaced at every use. Not an issue for NASA as NO bolt gets
re-used - - - but a pain when repairing a loader/backhoe in mud up to
your ankles- head first!!!
just replace them. The U-straps may also need to be replaced?
I looked at the page and it reminded me of the Dardelet thread shown in >Machinery's Handbook, the 21st edition at least which I have. I often
wonder if Ford used that or similar on the crossflow rocker arm
adjusters as the threads were self locking, no locknut.
On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 00:12:31 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>chrome&ie=UTF-8>
wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 15:29:01 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 14:03:12 -0400, Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> >>>wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
<snip>
Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?
Found this tidbit:
An-cor-lox nut has a ring of soft metal, such as soft steel or brass at the bottom of
the nut which turns on freely until the nut strikes the part.
Found it: Page 74 of the following: >>>.<chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://delibra.bg.polsl.pl/Content/16769/P-779_1940_3_Vol107_WU_8.pdf>
.<https://www.google.com/search?q=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&oq=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIJCAEQIRgKGKABMgkIAhAhGAoYoAEyCQgDECEYChigATIJCAQQIRgKGKABMgkIBRAhGAoYoAHSAQk4Njc0ajBqMTWoAgCwAgA&sourceid=
Spiralock has gone out of fashion as they are a "single use" locknut
No longer made. Company gone. Basically a soft copper washer that is >>>squished into contact with the bolt thread.
I've also run into Spiralock, which looks quite interesting.
.<https://www.stanleyengineeredfastening.com/en/brands/Optia/Spiralock>
Joe Gwinn
if I remember correctly from my Fiat Allis days - both nut and bolt to
be replaced at every use. Not an issue for NASA as NO bolt gets
re-used - - - but a pain when repairing a loader/backhoe in mud up to
your ankles- head first!!!
Good point, although the nuts are pretty cheap, so one can afford to
just replace them. The U-straps may also need to be replaced?
They have a bit of give to them - which might help - but generallyTheir Key-Lock thread inserts work pretty good - never had one come
out with the bolt/stud unlike HeliCoil.
And you don't need to replace the thread insert after one use?
Joe Gwinn
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 23:42:10 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>The hitch unlatched from the ball. For that to happen the dafety had
wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 21:39:58 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca> >>>wrote:Can't beat "belt and suspenders" - but always MEDIUM thread lock - if
On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 18:16:20 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> >>>>wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 11:45:50 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> >>>>>wrote:For suspension bolts I like flanged locknuts. NEVER split lock >>>>washers!!.
On 4/13/2024 11:25 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Sat, 13 Apr 2024 08:05:57 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
<muratlanne@gmail.com> wrote:
"Snag" wrote in message news:uvcbh7$2jb8r$1@dont-email.me...
On 4/12/2024 5:01 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Fri, 12 Apr 2024 13:36:58 -0700, Bob La Londe <none@none.com99> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
You probably want a bronze or stainless steel Drake two-piece Lock >>>>>>>>> Nut:
.<https://www.lok-mor.com/products/free-spinning/drake/>
Joe Gwinn
Looks a lot like a 40 dollar solution for a 2 dollar problem , Joe ... >>>>>>>> Snag
------------------------------------
I look for reliable methods using easily available hardware or auto store
products, such as doubled nuts. If necessary they can be modified on the
lathe or drilled for safety wire.
The OP was complaining that nothing he tried really worked, causing >>>>>>> danger to man and beast, and not so much about the cost of the
hardware, and Drake Nuts are the gold standard. They simply don't >>>>>>> shake loose. Finger tight causes noticeable locking.
Failing that, I'd try a thick nut and a jam nut tightened hard against >>>>>>> one another. And Loctite don't hurt. I recall from a study I read >>>>>>> that one puts the jam nut under the thick nut for best shake
resistance. Lok-Mor may have the study I recall, or it was an old >>>>>>> NASA study.
Joe Gwinn
Well, I didn't actually say that.
True, not those words, but this:
"Somewhere on a long flat Southwest of Globe/Miami I glanced in the >>>>>mirror to see one of the hooks for a front strap laying on the trailer >>>>>deck. The strap broke where it went over the frame. Fortunately I had >>>>>left the winch cable tight or I might have lost the truck."
Losing the truck on the highway is likely to cause a accident, and >>>>>maybe a double accident (the departing truck may go sidewise, >>>>>destabilizing the truck pulling or carrying everything). Free-range >>>>>rolling truck tires are bad enough. Bloodcurdling.
This would have terrified me for sure.
.... Just that two of the nuts came off
for no good reason. I did install regular Gr-8 nuts and lock washers >>>>>>with red Permatex thread locker to finish my adventure. Afterwards it >>>>>>made the trip up up to Globe/Miami over the mountains, down and back up >>>>>>through Salt River Canyon, and then on up and down the grades into Show >>>>>>Low. There I loaded a full size 3/4 ton diesel pickup and made the >>>>>>reverse trip braking and engine braking up and down some modestly steep >>>>>>inclines. Enough so that there were brake check areas and emergency >>>>>>runaway pullouts.
This morning I ordered a box of each of gr-8 lock washers and nuts. The >>>>>>cost of which was about the same (a little less) as the couple items I >>>>>>bought at the Tractor Supply store in Coolidge to make repairs. Before >>>>>>I make another such trip I'll be replacing all the lock nuts with >>>>>>regular GR-8 nuts and high strength thread locker. As near as I can >>>>>>tell the threads on the u-bolts are fine and they do not appear to have >>>>>>stretched, but of course I didn't clamp them up and measure them. Two >>>>>>of the original nuts just failed to hold. The new nuts did spin easily >>>>>>into place (which surprised me).
These are a pair of six ton axles and they were not cheap. They were >>>>>>just the closest to the correct size for the application that I could >>>>>>find.
I've got a fair amount of faith in liquid thread locker. I've used >>>>>>Permatex, Vibratite, and of course Loc-Tite brands with good results >>>>>>over the years.
I'm not opposed to more expensive solutions. I just don't think its >>>>>>necessary here. I did look at your link and I can see places it would >>>>>>be useful.
I would submit that compared to the cost of an accident, a few Drake >>>>>Nuts are insignificant.
By the way, Drake Nuts were invented in the 1910s, US 1,271,449.
And the analysis I couldn't remember was published in July 1922, and >>>>>did compare the Drake Nut with the thin jam nut with regular nut (with >>>>>jam nut between the big nut and whatever is being clamped). Drake >>>>>Nuts worked regardless, but the big nut and jam nut assembly would >>>>>shake loose. But this was before Loctite; this ought to work. The >>>>>distorted nuts were also analyzed, and didn't win.
Joe
Agree - they are useless, as are the star lock washers.
A serated nut with attached serated washer (LoxNut) is the
cat's ass. WhizLock nuts are a close second - particularly when >>>>installed with medium lock-tite.
Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?
WhizNut did work, and it's only for cases where the thing being
clamped is a good bit softer than the nut. >>><https://www.mcmaster.com/products/whiz-nuts/>
Fijilok nuts work very well on adjustable threaded linkage - better >>>>than NyLok
Fijilok not found, buried under irrelevant stuff.
Flanged side distortion or top distortion nuts work well too - >>>>particularly with medium lock-tite.
Do distorted nuts with loctite work better than plain nuts with
loctite?
I need to get out the torch to release the thread lock I mayas well
burn the sucker off!!!
If you MUST use lock washers, Nord-Lock or Disk-Lock. Either one >>>>requires 50% more torque to remove than the install torque (torque
stud to 100 lb/ft and it takes 150 to break it loose)
Nord-Lock is very good. <https://www.nord-lock.com/en-us/>
I had to look Disk-Lock up. <https://www.sherex.com/>
It is the Nord-Lock system (whose patents must have expired by now), >>>cloned and maybe improved. I would assume that it is also very good.
But I do think that while expensive, Drake Nuts are a whole lot
better. But this is the right conversation to be having.
Never seen a Drake before - ompressive.
Ever run into a Key-Lok? Equivalent to hitting the top thread with an
arc welder. That sucker is NEVER coming off - even if you want it
to!!!
War story. A family member was towing a boat trailer, but had not >>>attached the safety chains properly. If that trailer came loose,
someone was going to die. Whereupon I put my foot down and made him
use beefy threaded quick links.
<https://www.mcmaster.com/products/quick-links/>
So, I'd also consider adding some safety chains.
Joe Gwinn
I had a tent trailer jump off the ball once. Had good safety chains >>crossed under the hitch but the tounge jack took the abuse. It had a
rubber tire on it and by the time I got stopped it was worn to a cone
shape after attempting to drag the trailer off to the curb. From then
on I always BOLTED the hitch latch - using a nylock nut. Still don't
know how the clevis pin got out or why the latch released - I'm
CERTAIN I latched it - - - -
Heart stopping to be sure.
I'm unclear as to what exactly came loose and then happened.
Joe Gwinn
On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 17:13:07 +0100, David Billington <djb@invalid.com>chrome&ie=UTF-8>
wrote:
On 15/04/2024 16:26, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 00:12:31 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 15:29:01 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 14:03:12 -0400, Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> >>>>> wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400Found it: Page 74 of the following:
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
<snip>
Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?Found this tidbit:
An-cor-lox nut has a ring of soft metal, such as soft steel or brass at the bottom of
the nut which turns on freely until the nut strikes the part.
.<chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://delibra.bg.polsl.pl/Content/16769/P-779_1940_3_Vol107_WU_8.pdf>
.<https://www.google.com/search?q=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&oq=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIJCAEQIRgKGKABMgkIAhAhGAoYoAEyCQgDECEYChigATIJCAQQIRgKGKABMgkIBRAhGAoYoAHSAQk4Njc0ajBqMTWoAgCwAgA&sourceid=
Good point, although the nuts are pretty cheap, so one can afford toSpiralock has gone out of fashion as they are a "single use" locknut
No longer made. Company gone. Basically a soft copper washer that is >>>>> squished into contact with the bolt thread.
I've also run into Spiralock, which looks quite interesting.
.<https://www.stanleyengineeredfastening.com/en/brands/Optia/Spiralock> >>>>>
Joe Gwinn
if I remember correctly from my Fiat Allis days - both nut and bolt to >>>> be replaced at every use. Not an issue for NASA as NO bolt gets
re-used - - - but a pain when repairing a loader/backhoe in mud up to
your ankles- head first!!!
just replace them. The U-straps may also need to be replaced?
I looked at the page and it reminded me of the Dardelet thread shown in >>Machinery's Handbook, the 21st edition at least which I have. I often >>wonder if Ford used that or similar on the crossflow rocker arm
adjusters as the threads were self locking, no locknut.
I had not heard of the Dardelet thread, but it is the same idea as
Spiralock. Not made any more, it seems.
Dardelet's US patents are US 2,091,788 and US 1,657,244.
I ran into yet another locknut contender:Looks like a similar action as the FujiLok
Security Locknut, which originated in the railroad industry a century
ago, for use on such things are the assemblies that get the full >steel-on-steel impact loads. In this case, "security" means against >vibration, not thievery. There is just one supplier, but they are not >terribly expensive.
.<https://www.securitylocknut.com/>
The relevant patents are US 1,166,203 and US 1,400,154.
.<https://www.securitylocknut.com/post/how-does-the-security-locknut-work>
Joe Gwinn
On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 16:30:25 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>chrome&ie=UTF-8>
wrote:
On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 17:13:07 +0100, David Billington <djb@invalid.com> >>wrote:
On 15/04/2024 16:26, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 00:12:31 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>
wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 15:29:01 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> >>>>> wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 14:03:12 -0400, Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> >>>>>> wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400Found it: Page 74 of the following:
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
<snip>
Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?Found this tidbit:
An-cor-lox nut has a ring of soft metal, such as soft steel or brass at the bottom of
the nut which turns on freely until the nut strikes the part.
.<chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://delibra.bg.polsl.pl/Content/16769/P-779_1940_3_Vol107_WU_8.pdf>
.<https://www.google.com/search?q=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&oq=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIJCAEQIRgKGKABMgkIAhAhGAoYoAEyCQgDECEYChigATIJCAQQIRgKGKABMgkIBRAhGAoYoAHSAQk4Njc0ajBqMTWoAgCwAgA&sourceid=
Good point, although the nuts are pretty cheap, so one can afford toSpiralock has gone out of fashion as they are a "single use" locknut >>>>> if I remember correctly from my Fiat Allis days - both nut and bolt to >>>>> be replaced at every use. Not an issue for NASA as NO bolt gets
No longer made. Company gone. Basically a soft copper washer that is >>>>>> squished into contact with the bolt thread.
I've also run into Spiralock, which looks quite interesting.
.<https://www.stanleyengineeredfastening.com/en/brands/Optia/Spiralock> >>>>>>
Joe Gwinn
re-used - - - but a pain when repairing a loader/backhoe in mud up to >>>>> your ankles- head first!!!
just replace them. The U-straps may also need to be replaced?
I looked at the page and it reminded me of the Dardelet thread shown in >>>Machinery's Handbook, the 21st edition at least which I have. I often >>>wonder if Ford used that or similar on the crossflow rocker arm
adjusters as the threads were self locking, no locknut.
I had not heard of the Dardelet thread, but it is the same idea as >>Spiralock. Not made any more, it seems.
Dardelet's US patents are US 2,091,788 and US 1,657,244.
I ran into yet another locknut contender:
Security Locknut, which originated in the railroad industry a century
ago, for use on such things are the assemblies that get the full >>steel-on-steel impact loads. In this case, "security" means against >>vibration, not thievery. There is just one supplier, but they are not >>terribly expensive.
.<https://www.securitylocknut.com/>
The relevant patents are US 1,166,203 and US 1,400,154.
.<https://www.securitylocknut.com/post/how-does-the-security-locknut-work>
Joe GwinnLooks like a similar action as the FujiLok
On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 11:39:34 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>[snip]
wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 23:42:10 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca> >>wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> >>>wrote:
The hitch unlatched from the ball. For that to happen the safety had[CS]
I had a tent trailer jump off the ball once. Had good safety chains >>>crossed under the hitch but the tounge jack took the abuse. It had a >>>rubber tire on it and by the time I got stopped it was worn to a cone >>>shape after attempting to drag the trailer off to the curb. From then
on I always BOLTED the hitch latch - using a nylock nut. Still don't
know how the clevis pin got out or why the latch released - I'm
CERTAIN I latched it - - - -
Heart stopping to be sure.
I'm unclear as to what exactly came loose and then happened.
Joe Gwinn
to release - and it was SUPPOSED to be secured with a latch-pin. When
it jumped off the ball it was suspended on the crossed safety chains
but the tounge jack wheel, which was pointing slightly to the right,
touched the ground and tried to steer the trailer to the curb and the >pavement acted like a grinder and "machined" the tire into a cone.
After that I ALWAYS double check the hitch and make sure everything
is secured before starting out - and at every stop.
On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 11:26:44 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>chrome&ie=UTF-8>
wrote:
On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 00:12:31 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca> >>wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 15:29:01 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> >>>wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 14:03:12 -0400, Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> >>>>wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
<snip>
Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?
Found this tidbit:
An-cor-lox nut has a ring of soft metal, such as soft steel or brass at the bottom of
the nut which turns on freely until the nut strikes the part.
Found it: Page 74 of the following: >>>>.<chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://delibra.bg.polsl.pl/Content/16769/P-779_1940_3_Vol107_WU_8.pdf>
.<https://www.google.com/search?q=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&oq=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIJCAEQIRgKGKABMgkIAhAhGAoYoAEyCQgDECEYChigATIJCAQQIRgKGKABMgkIBRAhGAoYoAHSAQk4Njc0ajBqMTWoAgCwAgA&sourceid=
Spiralock has gone out of fashion as they are a "single use" locknut
No longer made. Company gone. Basically a soft copper washer that is >>>>squished into contact with the bolt thread.
I've also run into Spiralock, which looks quite interesting.
Joe Gwinn.<https://www.stanleyengineeredfastening.com/en/brands/Optia/Spiralock> >>>>
if I remember correctly from my Fiat Allis days - both nut and bolt to
be replaced at every use. Not an issue for NASA as NO bolt gets
re-used - - - but a pain when repairing a loader/backhoe in mud up to >>>your ankles- head first!!!
Good point, although the nuts are pretty cheap, so one can afford to
just replace them. The U-straps may also need to be replaced?
Their Key-Lock thread inserts work pretty good - never had one come
out with the bolt/stud unlike HeliCoil.
And you don't need to replace the thread insert after one use?
Joe Gwinn
They have a bit of give to them - which might help - but generally
you don't count on a thread insert to be a lock-nut - although they
are advertized and sold as such.
On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 20:16:53 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8>
wrote:
On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 16:30:25 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 17:13:07 +0100, David Billington <djb@invalid.com> >>>wrote:
On 15/04/2024 16:26, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 00:12:31 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca> >>>>> wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 15:29:01 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> >>>>>> wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 14:03:12 -0400, Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> >>>>>>> wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400Found it: Page 74 of the following:
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
<snip>
Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?Found this tidbit:
An-cor-lox nut has a ring of soft metal, such as soft steel or brass at the bottom of
the nut which turns on freely until the nut strikes the part.
.<chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://delibra.bg.polsl.pl/Content/16769/P-779_1940_3_Vol107_WU_8.pdf>
.<https://www.google.com/search?q=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&oq=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIJCAEQIRgKGKABMgkIAhAhGAoYoAEyCQgDECEYChigATIJCAQQIRgKGKABMgkIBRAhGAoYoAHSAQk4Njc0ajBqMTWoAgCwAgA&
Good point, although the nuts are pretty cheap, so one can afford to >>>>> just replace them. The U-straps may also need to be replaced?Spiralock has gone out of fashion as they are a "single use" locknut >>>>>> if I remember correctly from my Fiat Allis days - both nut and bolt to >>>>>> be replaced at every use. Not an issue for NASA as NO bolt gets
No longer made. Company gone. Basically a soft copper washer that is >>>>>>> squished into contact with the bolt thread.
I've also run into Spiralock, which looks quite interesting.
.<https://www.stanleyengineeredfastening.com/en/brands/Optia/Spiralock> >>>>>>>
Joe Gwinn
re-used - - - but a pain when repairing a loader/backhoe in mud up to >>>>>> your ankles- head first!!!
I looked at the page and it reminded me of the Dardelet thread shown in >>>>Machinery's Handbook, the 21st edition at least which I have. I often >>>>wonder if Ford used that or similar on the crossflow rocker arm >>>>adjusters as the threads were self locking, no locknut.
I had not heard of the Dardelet thread, but it is the same idea as >>>Spiralock. Not made any more, it seems.
Dardelet's US patents are US 2,091,788 and US 1,657,244.
I ran into yet another locknut contender:
Security Locknut, which originated in the railroad industry a century >>>ago, for use on such things are the assemblies that get the full >>>steel-on-steel impact loads. In this case, "security" means against >>>vibration, not thievery. There is just one supplier, but they are not >>>terribly expensive.
.<https://www.securitylocknut.com/>
The relevant patents are US 1,166,203 and US 1,400,154.
.<https://www.securitylocknut.com/post/how-does-the-security-locknut-work>
By the way, McMaster carries these. >.<https://www.mcmaster.com/products/nuts/locking-type~steel-insert/>
Joe GwinnLooks like a similar action as the FujiLok
Do you have any more information or URLs for FujiLok? Google didn't
help because I didn't know enough to pull this out of the irrelevant
hits.
On Tue, 16 Apr 2024 10:38:25 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8>
wrote:
On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 20:16:53 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca> >>wrote:
On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 16:30:25 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> >>>wrote:
On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 17:13:07 +0100, David Billington <djb@invalid.com> >>>>wrote:
On 15/04/2024 16:26, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 00:12:31 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca> >>>>>> wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 15:29:01 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> >>>>>>> wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 14:03:12 -0400, Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> >>>>>>>> wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400.<chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://delibra.bg.polsl.pl/Content/16769/P-779_1940_3_Vol107_WU_8.pdf>
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
<snip>
Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?Found this tidbit:
An-cor-lox nut has a ring of soft metal, such as soft steel or brass at the bottom of
the nut which turns on freely until the nut strikes the part. >>>>>>>> Found it: Page 74 of the following:
.<https://www.google.com/search?q=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&oq=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIJCAEQIRgKGKABMgkIAhAhGAoYoAEyCQgDECEYChigATIJCAQQIRgKGKABMgkIBRAhGAoYoAHSAQk4Njc0ajBqMTWoAgCwAgA&
By the way, McMaster carries these. >>.<https://www.mcmaster.com/products/nuts/locking-type~steel-insert/>Good point, although the nuts are pretty cheap, so one can afford to >>>>>> just replace them. The U-straps may also need to be replaced?Spiralock has gone out of fashion as they are a "single use" locknut >>>>>>> if I remember correctly from my Fiat Allis days - both nut and bolt to >>>>>>> be replaced at every use. Not an issue for NASA as NO bolt gets
No longer made. Company gone. Basically a soft copper washer that is >>>>>>>> squished into contact with the bolt thread.
I've also run into Spiralock, which looks quite interesting.
.<https://www.stanleyengineeredfastening.com/en/brands/Optia/Spiralock>
Joe Gwinn
re-used - - - but a pain when repairing a loader/backhoe in mud up to >>>>>>> your ankles- head first!!!
I looked at the page and it reminded me of the Dardelet thread shown in >>>>>Machinery's Handbook, the 21st edition at least which I have. I often >>>>>wonder if Ford used that or similar on the crossflow rocker arm >>>>>adjusters as the threads were self locking, no locknut.
I had not heard of the Dardelet thread, but it is the same idea as >>>>Spiralock. Not made any more, it seems.
Dardelet's US patents are US 2,091,788 and US 1,657,244.
I ran into yet another locknut contender:
Security Locknut, which originated in the railroad industry a century >>>>ago, for use on such things are the assemblies that get the full >>>>steel-on-steel impact loads. In this case, "security" means against >>>>vibration, not thievery. There is just one supplier, but they are not >>>>terribly expensive.
.<https://www.securitylocknut.com/>
The relevant patents are US 1,166,203 and US 1,400,154.
.<https://www.securitylocknut.com/post/how-does-the-security-locknut-work> >>
Joe GwinnLooks like a similar action as the FujiLok
Do you have any more information or URLs for FujiLok? Google didn't
help because I didn't know enough to pull this out of the irrelevant
hits.
I think I found them. The company is "Fuji Seimitsu Manufacturing Co
Ltd ".
.<https://www.fun.co.jp/en/u-town/company/history/>
The locknut is basically the same as the Security Locknut steel
insert. There is a US patent that I have not yet found, so there must
be some difference.
On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 20:16:53 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca>sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8>
wrote:
On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 16:30:25 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 17:13:07 +0100, David Billington <djb@invalid.com> >>>wrote:
On 15/04/2024 16:26, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Mon, 15 Apr 2024 00:12:31 -0400, Clare Snyder <clare@snyder.on.ca> >>>>> wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 15:29:01 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> >>>>>> wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 14:03:12 -0400, Leon Fisk <lfiskgr@gmail.invalid> >>>>>>> wrote:
On Sun, 14 Apr 2024 13:08:35 -0400Found it: Page 74 of the following:
Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
<snip>
Google didn't find LoxNut - buried under food stuff. URL?Found this tidbit:
An-cor-lox nut has a ring of soft metal, such as soft steel or brass at the bottom of
the nut which turns on freely until the nut strikes the part.
.<chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://delibra.bg.polsl.pl/Content/16769/P-779_1940_3_Vol107_WU_8.pdf>
.<https://www.google.com/search?q=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&oq=%22An-cor-lox%22+lock+nuts+lsminsyed&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIJCAEQIRgKGKABMgkIAhAhGAoYoAEyCQgDECEYChigATIJCAQQIRgKGKABMgkIBRAhGAoYoAHSAQk4Njc0ajBqMTWoAgCwAgA&
Good point, although the nuts are pretty cheap, so one can afford to >>>>> just replace them. The U-straps may also need to be replaced?Spiralock has gone out of fashion as they are a "single use" locknut >>>>>> if I remember correctly from my Fiat Allis days - both nut and bolt to >>>>>> be replaced at every use. Not an issue for NASA as NO bolt gets
No longer made. Company gone. Basically a soft copper washer that is >>>>>>> squished into contact with the bolt thread.
I've also run into Spiralock, which looks quite interesting.
.<https://www.stanleyengineeredfastening.com/en/brands/Optia/Spiralock> >>>>>>>
Joe Gwinn
re-used - - - but a pain when repairing a loader/backhoe in mud up to >>>>>> your ankles- head first!!!
I looked at the page and it reminded me of the Dardelet thread shown in >>>>Machinery's Handbook, the 21st edition at least which I have. I often >>>>wonder if Ford used that or similar on the crossflow rocker arm >>>>adjusters as the threads were self locking, no locknut.
I had not heard of the Dardelet thread, but it is the same idea as >>>Spiralock. Not made any more, it seems.
Dardelet's US patents are US 2,091,788 and US 1,657,244.
I ran into yet another locknut contender:
Security Locknut, which originated in the railroad industry a century >>>ago, for use on such things are the assemblies that get the full >>>steel-on-steel impact loads. In this case, "security" means against >>>vibration, not thievery. There is just one supplier, but they are not >>>terribly expensive.
.<https://www.securitylocknut.com/>
The relevant patents are US 1,166,203 and US 1,400,154.
.<https://www.securitylocknut.com/post/how-does-the-security-locknut-work>
By the way, McMaster carries these. >.<https://www.mcmaster.com/products/nuts/locking-type~steel-insert/>
Joe GwinnLooks like a similar action as the FujiLok
Do you have any more information or URLs for FujiLok? Google didn't
help because I didn't know enough to pull this out of the irrelevant
hits.
Joe Gwinn
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