Since I don’t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw >at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the >transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges >connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make
them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as
how long is the cyber computers going to be able to run on auxiliary power, >since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.
On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:>>Since I don?t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the>transformers atlots of major power substations. Then mine bridges>connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>how long is the cyber computers going to be able to run
On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
Since I don’t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw
at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the
transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges
connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make
them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as
how long is the cyber computers going to be able to run on auxiliary power, >> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.
That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on
the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much
like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the
technology they can bring to bear.
<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
Since I don’t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw
at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the
transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges
connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make >>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as >>> how long is the cyber computers going to be able to run on auxiliary power, >>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.
That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on
the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much
like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the
technology they can bring to bear.
With the modern technology, I don’t think Russia would do well. They may >not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How >much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill ><califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
Since I don’t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw
at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the
transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges
connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make >>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as >>>> how long is the cyber computers going to be able to run on auxiliary power,
since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.
That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on
the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much
like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the
technology they can bring to bear.
With the modern technology, I don’t think Russia would do well. They may >>not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How >>much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?
I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and
underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived
the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way
of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling >invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They may
have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.
My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked, >Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.
The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the
Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be
allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the
likely outcome anyway.
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:><gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>> <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:>> >>> >>> Since I don?t think they can defeatthe amount of Russians Putin will throw>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
Since I don’t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw
at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the
transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges
connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make >>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as >>>> how long is the cyber computers going to be able to run on auxiliary power,
since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.
That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on
the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much
like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the
technology they can bring to bear.
With the modern technology, I don’t think Russia would do well. They may >> not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How
much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?
I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and
underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived
the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way
of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They may
have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.
My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked, Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.
The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the
Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be
allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the
likely outcome anyway.
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 10:47:42 -0500, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill >><califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
Since I don’t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw
at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the >>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges
connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make >>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as >>>>> how long is the cyber computers going to be able to run on auxiliary power,
since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.
That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on >>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much
like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the
technology they can bring to bear.
With the modern technology, I don’t think Russia would do well. They may >>>not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How >>>much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?
I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and
underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived
the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way
of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling >>invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They may
have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.
My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked, >>Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.
The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the
Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be
allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the
likely outcome anyway.
I wouldn't count on any 'likely outcomes' if Putin pops a nuke.
<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
Since I don’t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw
at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the >>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges
connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make >>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as >>>>> how long is the cyber computers going to be able to run on auxiliary power,
since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.
That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on >>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much
like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the
technology they can bring to bear.
With the modern technology, I don’t think Russia would do well. They may
not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How >>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?
I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and
underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived
the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way
of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling
invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They may
have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.
My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,
Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.
The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the
Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be
allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the
likely outcome anyway.
I don’t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA to a >halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many >spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges >taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the
Loma Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred >people with a couple semi’s worth of explosives.
gfretwell@aol.com Wrote in message:rthe amount of Russians Putin will throw>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:><gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>> <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:>> >>> >>> Since I don?t think they can defeat
the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?I think you are overestimating what Ukrainecould do andunderestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they livedthe USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a wayof life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repellinginvaders. Napoleon and Hitler found
I will take your speculative analysis under consideration. I
expect it will end up in the round file.
<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
Since I don’t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw
at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the >>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges
connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make >>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as >>>>> how long is the cyber computers going to be able to run on auxiliary power,
since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.
That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on >>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much
like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the
technology they can bring to bear.
With the modern technology, I don’t think Russia would do well. They may >>> not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How >>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?
I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and
underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived
the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way
of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling
invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They may
have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.
My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,
Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.
The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the
Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be
allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the
likely outcome anyway.
I don’t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA to a >halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many >spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges >taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the
Loma Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred >people with a couple semi’s worth of explosives.
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 11:19:02 -0500, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 10:47:42 -0500, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill >>><califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
Since I don’t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw
at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the >>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges >>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make >>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as
how long is the cyber computers going to be able to run on auxiliary power,
since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.
That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on >>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much
like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the
technology they can bring to bear.
With the modern technology, I don’t think Russia would do well. They may >>>>not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How >>>>much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?
I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and
underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived
the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way
of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling >>>invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They may
have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.
My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked, >>>Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.
The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the >>>Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be
allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the >>>likely outcome anyway.
I wouldn't count on any 'likely outcomes' if Putin pops a nuke.
The only reason he would do that is because morons like Macron
threaten him with nukes.
There is no reason to nuke Ukraine.
They have the conventional force to win there. If it costs them enough
they might get out tho. There are people in Russia against this war.
The only thing that would change that is if Putin could sell this war
as protecting Mother Russia. Then he would have all the support he
needs from the average Russian. That is the problem with Bill's idea.
We saw that here when Bush Jr attacked Iraq. We had no national
interest to do so but the administration lied and tied Saddam to 9-11.
Then he could sell a stupid war as protecting America.
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
Since I donÂ’t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw
at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the >>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges >>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make >>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as
how long is the cyber computers going to be able to run on auxiliary power,
since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.
That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on >>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much
like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the
technology they can bring to bear.
With the modern technology, I donÂ’t think Russia would do well. They may
not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How >>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?
I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and
underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived
the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way
of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling
invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They may
have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.
My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,
Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.
The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the
Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be
allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the
likely outcome anyway.
I donÂ’t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA to a >> halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many
spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges >> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the
Loma Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred
people with a couple semiÂ’s worth of explosives.
With the Russian checkpoints at the border crossings, getting a semi
(or anything else) into Russia would be a bitch.
John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
Since I don?t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw
at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the >>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges >>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make
them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as
how long is the cyber computers going to be able to run on auxiliary power,
since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.
That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on >>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much >>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the >>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.
With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may
not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How >>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?
I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and
underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived
the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way
of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling
invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They may
have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.
My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked, >>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.
The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the
Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be
allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the
likely outcome anyway.
I don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA to a >>> halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many >>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges >>> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the
Loma Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred >>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.
With the Russian checkpoints at the border crossings, getting a semi
(or anything else) into Russia would be a bitch.
Should have had stuff in place already, and I said a semi load, does not
have be in a semi.
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 18:54:59 -0000 (UTC), Bill <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
Since I don?t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw
at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the >>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges >>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make
them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as
how long is the cyber computers going to be able to run on auxiliary power,
since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.
That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on >>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much >>>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the >>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.
With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may
not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How
much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?
I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and
underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived
the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way >>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling >>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They may
have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.
My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked, >>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.
The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the
Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be
allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the
likely outcome anyway.
I don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA to a
halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many >>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges
taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the >>>> Loma Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred >>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.
With the Russian checkpoints at the border crossings, getting a semi
(or anything else) into Russia would be a bitch.
Should have had stuff in place already, and I said a semi load, does not
have be in a semi.
No, that would fall under 'anything else'!
Do you mean Ukraine should have had tons of explosives in place to
take out bridges and transformers?
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 12:40:47 -0500, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 11:19:02 -0500, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 10:47:42 -0500, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill >>>><califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
Since I don’t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw
at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the >>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges >>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make
them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as
how long is the cyber computers going to be able to run on auxiliary power,
since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.
That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on >>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much >>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the >>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.
With the modern technology, I don’t think Russia would do well. They may
not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How >>>>>much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?
I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and >>>>underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived
the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way >>>>of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling >>>>invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They may >>>>have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.
My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked, >>>>Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.
The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the >>>>Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be >>>>allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the >>>>likely outcome anyway.
I wouldn't count on any 'likely outcomes' if Putin pops a nuke.
The only reason he would do that is because morons like Macron
threaten him with nukes.
There is no reason to nuke Ukraine.
They have the conventional force to win there. If it costs them enough
they might get out tho. There are people in Russia against this war.
The only thing that would change that is if Putin could sell this war
as protecting Mother Russia. Then he would have all the support he
needs from the average Russian. That is the problem with Bill's idea.
We saw that here when Bush Jr attacked Iraq. We had no national
interest to do so but the administration lied and tied Saddam to 9-11.
Then he could sell a stupid war as protecting America.
Of course there's no 'rational' reason to nuke Ukraine! But just how
rational is that asshole? To the rest of the world, he is looking like
a fool right now. Even bringing his nuclear forces to high alert (if
that is true) is an irrational act.
John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 18:54:59 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on >>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much >>>>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the >>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.
Since I don?t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw
at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the >>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges >>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make
them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as
how long is the cyber computers going to be able to run on auxiliary power,
since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters. >>>>>>>>
With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may
not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How
much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?
I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and
underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived >>>>>> the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way >>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling >>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They may >>>>>> have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.
My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked, >>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.
The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the >>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be
allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the >>>>>> likely outcome anyway.
I don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA to a
halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many >>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges
taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the >>>>> Loma Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred >>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.
With the Russian checkpoints at the border crossings, getting a semi
(or anything else) into Russia would be a bitch.
Should have had stuff in place already, and I said a semi load, does not >>> have be in a semi.
No, that would fall under 'anything else'!
Do you mean Ukraine should have had tons of explosives in place to
take out bridges and transformers?
Yup, just like Putin had his military prepared.
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 22:40:56 -0000 (UTC), Bill <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 18:54:59 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on
Since I don?t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw
at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the
transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges >>>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make
them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as
how long is the cyber computers going to be able to run on auxiliary power,
since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters. >>>>>>>>>
the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much >>>>>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the >>>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.
With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may
not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How
much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?
I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and
underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived >>>>>>> the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way >>>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling >>>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They may >>>>>>> have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.
My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked, >>>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.
The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the >>>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be >>>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the >>>>>>> likely outcome anyway.
I don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA to a
halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many
spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges
taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the >>>>>> Loma Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred >>>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.
With the Russian checkpoints at the border crossings, getting a semi >>>>> (or anything else) into Russia would be a bitch.
Should have had stuff in place already, and I said a semi load, does not >>>> have be in a semi.
No, that would fall under 'anything else'!
Do you mean Ukraine should have had tons of explosives in place to
take out bridges and transformers?
Yup, just like Putin had his military prepared.
They may have tons of explosives in Ukraine but you haven't said how
they get to Russia and placed near enough to that critical
infrastructure to damage it.
I still say all it will take is a big firecracker going off in Moscow
to flip the Russian opposition to this war to a rabid desire for
revenge.
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 13:09:39 -0500, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 12:40:47 -0500, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 11:19:02 -0500, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 10:47:42 -0500, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill >>>>><califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
Since I don’t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw
at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the >>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges >>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make
them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as
how long is the cyber computers going to be able to run on auxiliary power,
since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.
That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on >>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much >>>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the >>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.
With the modern technology, I don’t think Russia would do well. They may
not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How >>>>>>much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?
I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and >>>>>underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived >>>>>the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way >>>>>of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling >>>>>invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They may >>>>>have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.
My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked, >>>>>Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.
The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the >>>>>Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be >>>>>allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the >>>>>likely outcome anyway.
I wouldn't count on any 'likely outcomes' if Putin pops a nuke.
The only reason he would do that is because morons like Macron
threaten him with nukes.
There is no reason to nuke Ukraine.
They have the conventional force to win there. If it costs them enough >>>they might get out tho. There are people in Russia against this war.
The only thing that would change that is if Putin could sell this war
as protecting Mother Russia. Then he would have all the support he
needs from the average Russian. That is the problem with Bill's idea.
We saw that here when Bush Jr attacked Iraq. We had no national
interest to do so but the administration lied and tied Saddam to 9-11. >>>Then he could sell a stupid war as protecting America.
Of course there's no 'rational' reason to nuke Ukraine! But just how >>rational is that asshole? To the rest of the world, he is looking like
a fool right now. Even bringing his nuclear forces to high alert (if
that is true) is an irrational act.
Not any more irrational than the feckless French rattling their saber
with nukes. That is how this shit starts.
John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 18:54:59 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on >>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much >>>>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the >>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.
Since I don?t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw
at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the >>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges >>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make
them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as
how long is the cyber computers going to be able to run on auxiliary power,
since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters. >>>>>>>>
With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may
not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How
much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?
I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and
underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived >>>>>> the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way >>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling >>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They may >>>>>> have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.
My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked, >>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.
The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the >>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be
allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the >>>>>> likely outcome anyway.
I don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA to a
halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many >>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges
taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the >>>>> Loma Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred >>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.
With the Russian checkpoints at the border crossings, getting a semi
(or anything else) into Russia would be a bitch.
Should have had stuff in place already, and I said a semi load, does not >>> have be in a semi.
No, that would fall under 'anything else'!
Do you mean Ukraine should have had tons of explosives in place to
take out bridges and transformers?
Yup, just like Putin had his military prepared.
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
Since I don’t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw
at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the >>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges >>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make >>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as
how long is the cyber computers going to be able to run on auxiliary power,
since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.
That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on >>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much
like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the
technology they can bring to bear.
With the modern technology, I don’t think Russia would do well. They may
not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How >>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?
I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and
underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived
the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way
of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling
invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They may
have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.
My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,
Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.
The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the
Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be
allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the
likely outcome anyway.
I don’t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA to a
halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many
spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges >> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the
Loma Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred
people with a couple semi’s worth of explosives.
You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful
military in the world by attacking their homeland. A small gang of
terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave
us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at
all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.
On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
Since I don’t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw
at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the >>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges >>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make
them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as
how long is the cyber computers going to be able to run on auxiliary power,
since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.
That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on >>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much >>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the >>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.
With the modern technology, I don’t think Russia would do well. They may
not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How >>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?
I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and
underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived
the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way
of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling
invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They may
have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.
My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked, >>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.
The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the
Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be
allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the
likely outcome anyway.
I don’t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA to a >>> halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many >>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges >>> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the
Loma Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred >>> people with a couple semi’s worth of explosives.
You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful
military in the world by attacking their homeland. A small gang of
terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave
us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at
all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.
I realize your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military
's performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the
same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the
various cable networks all agree. Russia's invasion has been a
clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems
and a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were
there.
It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US and NATO forces >could make mincemeat of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile >launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast
for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.
On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
Since I don’t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw
at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the >>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges >>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make
them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as
how long is the cyber computers going to be able to run on auxiliary power,
since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.
That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on >>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much >>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the >>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.
With the modern technology, I don’t think Russia would do well. They may
not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How >>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?
I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and
underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived
the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way
of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling
invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They may
have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.
My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked, >>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.
The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the
Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be
allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the
likely outcome anyway.
I don’t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA to a
halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many >>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges >>> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the
Loma Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred >>> people with a couple semi’s worth of explosives.
You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful
military in the world by attacking their homeland. A small gang of
terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave
us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at
all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.
I realize your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military
's performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the
same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the
various cable networks all agree. Russia's invasion has been a
clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems
and a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were
there.
It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US and NATO forces >could make mincemeat of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile >launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast
for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.
On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>
wrote:
On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
Since I don’t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw
at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the >>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges >>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make
them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as
how long is the cyber computers going to be able to run on auxiliary power,
since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.
That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on >>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much >>>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the >>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.
With the modern technology, I don’t think Russia would do well. They may
not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How
much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?
I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and
underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived
the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way >>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling >>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They may
have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.
My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked, >>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.
The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the
Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be
allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the
likely outcome anyway.
I don’t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA to a
halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many >>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges
taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the >>>> Loma Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred >>>> people with a couple semi’s worth of explosives.
You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful
military in the world by attacking their homeland. A small gang of
terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave
us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at
all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.
I realize your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military
's performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the
same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the
various cable networks all agree. Russia's invasion has been a
clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems
and a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were
there.
It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US and NATO forces >>could make mincemeat of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile >>launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast
for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.
I wonder if his nuclear threat would work if he attacks Poland.
On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 12:35:09 -0500, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:>On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>>wrote:>>>On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:>>> >>>> <gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (
Russians. Bear in mind they lived>>>>> the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. Theynot depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the resilience of
kind of agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t think it would take too many assetshave a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some
On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>
wrote:
On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
<gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:
On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill
<califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
Since I don’t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw
at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the >>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges >>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make
them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as
how long is the cyber computers going to be able to run on auxiliary power,
since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.
That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on >>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much >>>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the >>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.
With the modern technology, I don’t think Russia would do well. They may
not depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How
much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?
I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and
underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived
the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way >>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling >>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They may
have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.
My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked, >>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.
The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the
Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be
allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the
likely outcome anyway.
I don’t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA to a
halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many >>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges
taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the >>>> Loma Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred >>>> people with a couple semi’s worth of explosives.
You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful
military in the world by attacking their homeland. A small gang of
terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave
us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at
all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.
I realize your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military
's performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the
same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the
various cable networks all agree. Russia's invasion has been a
clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems
and a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were
there.
It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US and NATO forces
could make mincemeat of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile
launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast
for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.
No doubt they are fighting a "3d world" style war, assuming there is
no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.
It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is
why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective
attack on Russian soil. That might be what it takes to turn them into
an army out for revenge. Right now I doubt Putin is doing a very good
job in selling this war to his citizens. On the bright side, the big
money in Russia may be the ones to stop this and knock a little shine
off of Putin. I still bet he keeps the Donbass area.
.
On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> <gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <
40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are fighting a "3d world" style war, assuming there is>clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems>> and a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were>> there.>>>> It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US and NATO forces>> could make mincemeat of the
gfretwell@aol.com Wrote in message:rcalifbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:>>> >>>> <gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (
On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 12:35:09 -0500, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:>On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>>wrote:>>>On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <
the cyber computers going to be able to run on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians takeattacks on their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>
Russians. Bear in mind they lived>>>>> the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out thenot depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the resilience of
hard way. They may>>>>> have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they hadjust made some kind of agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t think it would take
military in the world by attacking their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a goodcount of how many people died.>>>>>>I realize your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>>'s performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>>same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>>various
his nuclear threat would work if he attacks Poland. The US has troops in Poland. I doubt he wants that confrontation forthe same reason we don't.
Russians are destroying their own equipment. And there is a seven
figure pricetag on Putin's head courtesy of a Russian
billionaire. There is a 550 foot Russian yacht that the Germans
confiscated. Russian soldiers are refusing to go on missions.
There aren't too many countrys that Putin can fly over. Biden
ought to jump on the bandwagon and get our oil production back on
line. Or, we could enlist SealTeam B to solve the
problem
On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 13:28:11 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>> >>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <
gfre...@aol.com Wrote in message:r
On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 12:35:09 -0500, John H <jher...@cox.net> wrote:>On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>>wrote:>>>On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <
attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>>the cyber computers going to be able to run on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take
just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t think it would takehard way. They may>>>>> have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had
count of how many people died.>>>>>>I realize your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>>'s performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>>same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>>variousmilitary in the world by attacking their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good
if
his nuclear threat would work if he attacks Poland. The US has troops in Poland. I doubt he wants that confrontation forthe same reason we don't.
Russians are destroying their own equipment. And there is a sevenIn the meantime much of Ukraine is getting flattened. Damn shame. I
figure pricetag on Putin's head courtesy of a Russian
billionaire. There is a 550 foot Russian yacht that the Germans confiscated. Russian soldiers are refusing to go on missions.
There aren't too many countrys that Putin can fly over. Biden
ought to jump on the bandwagon and get our oil production back on
line. Or, we could enlist SealTeam B to solve the
problem
wish we could do something. Can't believe Biden is still buying oil
from the fucker.
On Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 4:55:30 PM UTC-5, John H wrote:califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>> >>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <
On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 13:28:11 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:
gfre...@aol.com Wrote in message:r
On Thu, 03 Mar 2022 12:35:09 -0500, John H <jher...@cox.net> wrote:>On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>>wrote:>>>On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <
take attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>the cyber computers going to be able to run on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians
Russians. Bear in mind they lived>>>>> the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out thenot depend on the internet as much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the resilience of
had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t think it wouldhard way. They may>>>>> have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they
count of how many people died.>>>>>>I realize your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>>'s performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>>same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>>variousmilitary in the world by attacking their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good
if
his nuclear threat would work if he attacks Poland. The US has troops in Poland. I doubt he wants that confrontation forthe same reason we don't.In the meantime much of Ukraine is getting flattened. Damn shame. I
Russians are destroying their own equipment. And there is a seven
figure pricetag on Putin's head courtesy of a Russian
billionaire. There is a 550 foot Russian yacht that the Germans
confiscated. Russian soldiers are refusing to go on missions.
There aren't too many countrys that Putin can fly over. Biden
ought to jump on the bandwagon and get our oil production back on
line. Or, we could enlist SealTeam B to solve the
problem
wish we could do something. Can't believe Biden is still buying oil
from the fucker.
===
We don't need Russian oil in this country. It must be going somewhere else.
On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> <gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <
40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are fighting a "3d world" style war, assuming there is>clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems>> and a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were>> there.>>>> It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US and NATO forces>> could make mincemeat of the
"Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com> Wrote in message:rcalifbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> <gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC)
On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <
going to be able to run on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on theirhomeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on
agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t think it would take too many assets tohave a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of
attacking their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.Russia's invasion has been a>> clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems>> and a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were>> there.>>>> It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US and NATO forces>>
I realize your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>> 's performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>> same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>> various cable networks all agree.
fighting a "3d world" style war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective>attack on Russian soil. That might be what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right now I doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia may be the ones to stop
borders.Putin is a hold over from the Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with awealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not living in the worldof 2022.Ultimately I think the Russian people will be the cause ofhis downfall. I also think that eventually the same may betrue in China.If you keep your citizens like mushrooms ...
Someone should start a go fund me to finance Putins removal
On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber
"Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:rwrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.
On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@gmail.
wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine
computershomeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on
going to be able to run on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their
agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t think it would take too many assets tohave a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of
died.>>>>>> I realize your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>> 's performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>> same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>> various cable networks allLoma Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by
attacking their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people
could make mincemeat of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they areattack on Russian soil. That might be what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right now I doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia may be the ones to stop
fighting a "3d world" style war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective>
wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not living in the worldof 2022.Ultimately I think the Russian people will be the cause ofhis downfall. I also think that eventually the same may betrue in China.If you keep your citizens like mushrooms ...borders.Putin is a hold over from the Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a
Someone should start a go fund me to finance Putins removalSome oligarch in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.
On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber
On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:
wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail."Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@gmail.
wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine
homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend oncomputers
going to be able to run on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their
of agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t think it would take too many assets tohave a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind
died.>>>>>> I realize your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>> 's performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>> same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>> various cable networks allLoma Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by
attacking their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people
could make mincemeat of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they areeffective> attack on Russian soil. That might be what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right now I doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia may be the
fighting a "3d world" style war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an
wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not living in the worldof 2022.Ultimately I think the Russian people will be the cause ofhis downfall. I also think that eventually the same may betrue in China.If you keep your citizens like mushrooms ...borders.Putin is a hold over from the Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a
===Someone should start a go fund me to finance Putins removalSome oligarch in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.
Based on recent photos of Putin's very long conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social distancing.
On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote: > > >"Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r > >> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb
"Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022
10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On
2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022
16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com>
wrote:>>>>>>> <gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022
05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com>
wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfretwell@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022
20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com>
wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t think they can defeat the
amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> at them, they should take
the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the>>>>>>>> transformers at lots
of major power substations. Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major
areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them
stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks,
auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet >> repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukrainehow long is the cyber computers going to be able to run on
ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on
their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send in
a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to
bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think
Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as
much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when
they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are
overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the
resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived>>>>> the USSR for most
of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They
also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders.
Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They may>>>>> have a
generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if
Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine
would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if
they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions,
that would willingly go back to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this
whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome
anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t think it would take too many assets to
bring Russia or the USA to a>>>> halt. Destroy the transformers at a
few major power stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how
long to build replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how
much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma Prieta
earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people
with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test
the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by
attacking their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2
buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy
three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not
have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize your post is
a few days old but based on the Russian military>> 's performance so far
in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>> same caliber it was
years ago. Several former US generals on the>> various cable networks
all agree. Russia's invasion has been a>> clusterfuck so far. Munition
malfunctions, logistical problems>> and a bunch of young conscripts who
didn't even know why they were>> there.>>>> It's too bad the nuke issue
hangs over this. I think US and NATO forces>> could make mincemeat of
the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop
transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A
few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are
fighting a "3d world" style war, assuming there is> no real opposition
other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian
soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we
really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That
might be what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right
now I doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his
citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia may be the ones
to stop this and knock a little shine> off of Putin. I still bet he
keeps the Donbass area.> .I think the Russian civilian population is
experiencing a similarenlightenment that the US civilian population
experienced startingin the mid 60's with the war in Vietnam.Post Soviet
Russia is not the same as it was prior to 1991.Capitalism has
flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new
generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world
beyond their borders.Putin is a hold over from the Soviet days. He
doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and
hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a
very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally.
He's out of touch and not living in the worldof 2022.Ultimately I think
the Russian people will be the cause ofhis downfall. I also think that
eventually the same may betrue in China.If you keep your citizens like
mushrooms ... living in darkcaves and feeding them bullshit you can
maintain power. Butonce the sunlight starts to illuminate what is
around them,the revolts begin.-- This email has been checked for viruses by >> AVG.https://www.avg.com
Someone should start a go fund me to finance Putins removal
On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber
On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.
"Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@gmail.
wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine
homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend oncomputers
going to be able to run on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their
agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t think it would take too many assets tohave a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of
died.>>>>>> I realize your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>> 's performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>> same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>> various cable networks allLoma Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by
attacking their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people
could make mincemeat of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they areeffective> attack on Russian soil. That might be what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right now I doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia may be the
fighting a "3d world" style war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an
wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not living in the worldof 2022.Ultimately I think the Russian people will be the cause ofhis downfall. I also think that eventually the same may betrue in China.If you keep your citizens like mushrooms ...borders.Putin is a hold over from the Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a
Some oligarch in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.
Someone should start a go fund me to finance Putins removal
===
Based on recent photos of Putin's very long conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social distancing.
On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r>wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com>
On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com>
willingly go back to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA to a>>>> halt. Destroy theMy bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would
"Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:rOn 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com>
On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r>>>>
willingly go back to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA to a>>>> halt. Destroy theMy bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would
I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
"Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com> Wrote in message:r> On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:
"Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022
kind of agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t think it would take too many assetshave a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some
homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realizeLoma Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking their
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote:> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r> > On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/
<gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> at them, they should takethe war to Russia. Start by blowing up the>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop
Hitler found that out the hard way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>>underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived>>>>> the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and
effective> attack on Russian soil. That might be what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right now I doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia may be thefighting a "3d world" style war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an
On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com>
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r>>>>
willingly go back to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA to a>>>> halt. Destroy theMy bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would
I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
===
if only 5% of Russian nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin will have to be removed from within.We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces and failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a declaration of war, a war with no winners. Even
Wayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin
out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops
who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the
Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway,
like a cornered snake.
I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight
this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking
that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens.
I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands
what it means.
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 11:27:45 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday,
March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 >>>>> 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" >>>>> <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM,
gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" >>>>> <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM,
gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>
<califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> >>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>
<califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com>
wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>>
<califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t >>>>> think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> >>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up
mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against thetransformers at lots of major power substations. Then
people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies.
Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the
cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to run on auxiliary
power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet
repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine >>>>> ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on >>>>> their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send >>>>> in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to >>>>> bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think
Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as
much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when >>>>> they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are
overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the
resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived>>>>> the USSR for
most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of
life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of
repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard >>>>> way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt
attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viableMy bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being
country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of >>>>> agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back >>>>> to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been >>>>> unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA >>>>> to a>>>> halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power
stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build >>>>> replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the
San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma Prieta earthquake caused >>>>> and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple
semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve >>>>> of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking >>>>> their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2
buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to
destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still >>>>> do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize
your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>> 's
performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>>
same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>>
various cable networks all agree. Russia's invasion has been a>>
clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems>> and >>>>> a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were>>
there.>>>> It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US
and NATO forces>> could make mincemeat of the 40 mile long line of
Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, >>>>> all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would
probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world" >>>>> style war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small
arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are
not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really
don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That might be >>>>> what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right now I >>>>> doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his
citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia may be the
ones to stop this and knock a little shine> off of Putin. I still bet >>>>> he keeps the Donbass area.> .I think the Russian civilian population >>>>> is experiencing a similarenlightenment that the US civilian
population experienced startingin the mid 60's with the war in
Vietnam.Post Soviet Russia is not the same as it was prior to
1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais
available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto
information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold
over from the Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't
even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a
"palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" >>>>> arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not
living in the worldof 2022.Ultimately I think the Russian people will >>>>> be the cause ofhis downfall. I also think that eventually the same
may betrue in China.If you keep your citizens like mushrooms ...
living in darkcaves and feeding them bullshit you can maintain power. >>>>> Butonce the sunlight starts to illuminate what is around them,the
revolts begin.-- This email has been checked for viruses by
AVG.https://www.avg.com>>>>>> Someone should start a go fund me to
finance Putins removal>> Some oligarch in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd
contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long
conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social
distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he
lives in and is pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.
I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
===
We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces andWayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin
failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see
an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a
declaration of war, a war with no winners. Even if only 5% of Russian
nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin
will have to be removed from within.
out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange
anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with
overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops
who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't
going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the
Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway,
like a cornered snake.
I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight
this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking
that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens.
I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands
what it means.
==
It's likely that we are already engaged in covert actions in Ukraine.
Trying to take Putin out on his home turf would be extremely difficult however and might very well energize Russian sentiment against us, just
as a similar attempt would energize US citizens. Any attempts at
targeted assassination would surely invite reciprocal actions and that
would go downhill quickly.
waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 11:27:45 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday,
March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 >>>>>> 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" >>>>>> <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM,
gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" >>>>>> <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM,
gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>
<califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>
<califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com>
wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> >>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t >>>>>> think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> >>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up
mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the >>>>>> people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. >>>>>> Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is thetransformers at lots of major power substations. Then
cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to run on auxiliary
power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet
repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine >>>>>> ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on >>>>>> their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send >>>>>> in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to >>>>>> bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think >>>>>> Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as >>>>>> much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when >>>>>> they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are >>>>>> overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the
resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived>>>>> the USSR for
most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of
life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of
repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard >>>>>> way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt
attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viableMy bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being
country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of >>>>>> agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back >>>>>> to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been >>>>>> unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA >>>>>> to a>>>> halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power
stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build >>>>>> replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the >>>>>> San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma Prieta earthquake caused >>>>>> and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple >>>>>> semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve >>>>>> of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking >>>>>> their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2
buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to
destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still >>>>>> do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize
your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>> 's >>>>>> performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>> >>>>>> same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>> >>>>>> various cable networks all agree. Russia's invasion has been a>>
clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems>> and >>>>>> a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were>>
there.>>>> It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US >>>>>> and NATO forces>> could make mincemeat of the 40 mile long line of >>>>>> Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, >>>>>> all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would
probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world" >>>>>> style war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small
arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are >>>>>> not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really
don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That might be >>>>>> what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right now I >>>>>> doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his
citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia may be the >>>>>> ones to stop this and knock a little shine> off of Putin. I still bet >>>>>> he keeps the Donbass area.> .I think the Russian civilian population >>>>>> is experiencing a similarenlightenment that the US civilian
population experienced startingin the mid 60's with the war in
Vietnam.Post Soviet Russia is not the same as it was prior to
1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais >>>>>> available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto
information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold >>>>>> over from the Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't
even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a
"palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" >>>>>> arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not
living in the worldof 2022.Ultimately I think the Russian people will >>>>>> be the cause ofhis downfall. I also think that eventually the same >>>>>> may betrue in China.If you keep your citizens like mushrooms ...
living in darkcaves and feeding them bullshit you can maintain power. >>>>>> Butonce the sunlight starts to illuminate what is around them,the
revolts begin.-- This email has been checked for viruses by
AVG.https://www.avg.com>>>>>> Someone should start a go fund me to >>>>>> finance Putins removal>> Some oligarch in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd >>>>>> contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long
conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social >>>>>> distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he
lives in and is pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.
I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
===
We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces andWayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin
failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see >>>> an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a
declaration of war, a war with no winners. Even if only 5% of Russian
nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin
will have to be removed from within.
out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange >>> anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with
overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops >>> who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't
going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the
Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway,
like a cornered snake.
I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight
this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking
that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens.
I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands
what it means.
==
It's likely that we are already engaged in covert actions in Ukraine.
Trying to take Putin out on his home turf would be extremely difficult
however and might very well energize Russian sentiment against us, just
as a similar attempt would energize US citizens. Any attempts at
targeted assassination would surely invite reciprocal actions and that
would go downhill quickly.
Since the ruble has lost 30% and is in free fall, I think the Russian
People, who really don’t like Putin, would be happy he was gone. In the last 20 years, he has consolidated immense power in a very small group.
On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com>
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r>>>>
Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to run onauxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>>
the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation or twoof snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>>
small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize your postPrieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking their homeland. Ahalt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma
of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world" style war, assumingthere is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That might be what
not the same as it was prior to 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold over from the Soviet days.He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not living in the
in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he lives in and is prettymuch isolated from contact with anyone.
I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
===
Even if only 5% of Russian nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin will have to be removed from within.We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces and failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a declaration of war, a war with no winners.
Wayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin
out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange >anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with >overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops
who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't
going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the
Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway,
like a cornered snake.
I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight
this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking
that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens.
I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands
what it means.
On 3/5/2022 7:11 PM, Bill wrote:
waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 11:27:45 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, >>>>>>> March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 >>>>>>> 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" >>>>>>> <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, >>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
<not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM,
gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>
<califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>
<califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com>
wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> >>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t >>>>>>> think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up >>>>>>> the>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then >>>>>>> mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the >>>>>>> people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. >>>>>>> Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the
cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to run on auxiliary
power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet >>>>>>> repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine >>>>>>> ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on >>>>>>> their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send >>>>>>> in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to >>>>>>> bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think >>>>>>> Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as >>>>>>> much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when >>>>>>> they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are >>>>>>> overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the >>>>>>> resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived>>>>> the USSR for >>>>>>> most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of >>>>>>> life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of
repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard >>>>>>> way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt
attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viableMy bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being
country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of >>>>>>> agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back >>>>>>> to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been >>>>>>> unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>> don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA >>>>>>> to a>>>> halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power
stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build >>>>>>> replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the >>>>>>> San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma Prieta earthquake caused >>>>>>> and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple >>>>>>> semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve >>>>>>> of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking >>>>>>> their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2
buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to
destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still >>>>>>> do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize >>>>>>> your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>> 's >>>>>>> performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>> >>>>>>> same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>> >>>>>>> various cable networks all agree. Russia's invasion has been a>> >>>>>>> clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems>> and >>>>>>> a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were>> >>>>>>> there.>>>> It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US >>>>>>> and NATO forces>> could make mincemeat of the 40 mile long line of >>>>>>> Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, >>>>>>> all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would >>>>>>> probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world" >>>>>>> style war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small >>>>>>> arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are >>>>>>> not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really >>>>>>> don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That might be >>>>>>> what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right now I >>>>>>> doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his >>>>>>> citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia may be the >>>>>>> ones to stop this and knock a little shine> off of Putin. I still bet >>>>>>> he keeps the Donbass area.> .I think the Russian civilian population >>>>>>> is experiencing a similarenlightenment that the US civilian
population experienced startingin the mid 60's with the war in
Vietnam.Post Soviet Russia is not the same as it was prior to
1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais >>>>>>> available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto
information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold >>>>>>> over from the Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't >>>>>>> even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a
"palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" >>>>>>> arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not >>>>>>> living in the worldof 2022.Ultimately I think the Russian people will >>>>>>> be the cause ofhis downfall. I also think that eventually the same >>>>>>> may betrue in China.If you keep your citizens like mushrooms ... >>>>>>> living in darkcaves and feeding them bullshit you can maintain power. >>>>>>> Butonce the sunlight starts to illuminate what is around them,the >>>>>>> revolts begin.-- This email has been checked for viruses by
AVG.https://www.avg.com>>>>>> Someone should start a go fund me to >>>>>>> finance Putins removal>> Some oligarch in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd >>>>>>> contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long >>>>>>> conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social >>>>>>> distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he >>>>>>> lives in and is pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.
I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
===
We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces andWayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin >>>> out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange >>>> anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with
failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see >>>>> an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a
declaration of war, a war with no winners. Even if only 5% of Russian >>>>> nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin >>>>> will have to be removed from within.
overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops >>>> who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't >>>> going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the
Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway,
like a cornered snake.
I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight
this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking
that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens.
I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands
what it means.
==
It's likely that we are already engaged in covert actions in Ukraine.
Trying to take Putin out on his home turf would be extremely difficult
however and might very well energize Russian sentiment against us, just
as a similar attempt would energize US citizens. Any attempts at
targeted assassination would surely invite reciprocal actions and that
would go downhill quickly.
Since the ruble has lost 30% and is in free fall, I think the Russian
People, who really don’t like Putin, would be happy he was gone. In the >> last 20 years, he has consolidated immense power in a very small group.
He rules by terrorizing or eliminating anyone who doesn't agree or
support him. The similarities to Hitler in the late 30's are striking.
On Sun, 6 Mar 2022 07:37:40 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>
wrote:
On 3/5/2022 7:11 PM, Bill wrote:
waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 11:27:45 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, >>>>>>>> March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 >>>>>>>> 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" >>>>>>>> <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, >>>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
<not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM,
gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>
<califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>
<califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com>
wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t >>>>>>>> think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then
mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the >>>>>>>> people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. >>>>>>>> Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the >>>>>>>> cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to run on auxiliary
power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet >>>>>>>> repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine >>>>>>>> ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on >>>>>>>> their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send >>>>>>>> in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to >>>>>>>> bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think >>>>>>>> Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as >>>>>>>> much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when >>>>>>>> they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are >>>>>>>> overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the >>>>>>>> resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived>>>>> the USSR for >>>>>>>> most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of >>>>>>>> life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of
repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard >>>>>>>> way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt
attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viableMy bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being
country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of >>>>>>>> agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back >>>>>>>> to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been >>>>>>>> unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>>> don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA >>>>>>>> to a>>>> halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power
stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build >>>>>>>> replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the >>>>>>>> San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma Prieta earthquake caused >>>>>>>> and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple >>>>>>>> semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve >>>>>>>> of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking >>>>>>>> their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2
buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to >>>>>>>> destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still >>>>>>>> do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize >>>>>>>> your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>> 's >>>>>>>> performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>> >>>>>>>> same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>> >>>>>>>> various cable networks all agree. Russia's invasion has been a>> >>>>>>>> clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems>> and >>>>>>>> a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were>> >>>>>>>> there.>>>> It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US >>>>>>>> and NATO forces>> could make mincemeat of the 40 mile long line of >>>>>>>> Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, >>>>>>>> all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would >>>>>>>> probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world" >>>>>>>> style war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small >>>>>>>> arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are >>>>>>>> not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really >>>>>>>> don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That might be >>>>>>>> what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right now I >>>>>>>> doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his >>>>>>>> citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia may be the >>>>>>>> ones to stop this and knock a little shine> off of Putin. I still bet >>>>>>>> he keeps the Donbass area.> .I think the Russian civilian population >>>>>>>> is experiencing a similarenlightenment that the US civilian
population experienced startingin the mid 60's with the war in >>>>>>>> Vietnam.Post Soviet Russia is not the same as it was prior to
1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais >>>>>>>> available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto
information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold >>>>>>>> over from the Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't >>>>>>>> even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a >>>>>>>> "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" >>>>>>>> arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not >>>>>>>> living in the worldof 2022.Ultimately I think the Russian people will >>>>>>>> be the cause ofhis downfall. I also think that eventually the same >>>>>>>> may betrue in China.If you keep your citizens like mushrooms ... >>>>>>>> living in darkcaves and feeding them bullshit you can maintain power. >>>>>>>> Butonce the sunlight starts to illuminate what is around them,the >>>>>>>> revolts begin.-- This email has been checked for viruses by
AVG.https://www.avg.com>>>>>> Someone should start a go fund me to >>>>>>>> finance Putins removal>> Some oligarch in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd >>>>>>>> contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long >>>>>>>> conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social >>>>>>>> distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he >>>>>>>> lives in and is pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.
I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
===
We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces and >>>>>> failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see >>>>>> an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be aWayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin >>>>> out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange >>>>> anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with
declaration of war, a war with no winners. Even if only 5% of Russian >>>>>> nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin >>>>>> will have to be removed from within.
overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops >>>>> who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't >>>>> going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the
Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway, >>>>> like a cornered snake.
I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight >>>>> this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking
that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens. >>>>>
I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands >>>>> what it means.
==
It's likely that we are already engaged in covert actions in Ukraine.
Trying to take Putin out on his home turf would be extremely difficult >>>> however and might very well energize Russian sentiment against us, just >>>> as a similar attempt would energize US citizens. Any attempts at
targeted assassination would surely invite reciprocal actions and that >>>> would go downhill quickly.
Since the ruble has lost 30% and is in free fall, I think the Russian
People, who really don’t like Putin, would be happy he was gone. In the >>> last 20 years, he has consolidated immense power in a very small group.
He rules by terrorizing or eliminating anyone who doesn't agree or
support him. The similarities to Hitler in the late 30's are striking.
Not even close. I doubt Putin could get a thousand people to a rally
and Hitler had the majority of his country behind him. Putin doesn't
have the issues Hitler had either.
waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 11:27:45 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday,
March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 >>>>>> 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" >>>>>> <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM,
gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" >>>>>> <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM,
gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>
<califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> >>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>
<califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com>
wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> >>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t >>>>>> think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> >>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up
mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the >>>>>> people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. >>>>>> Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is thetransformers at lots of major power substations. Then
cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to run on auxiliary
power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet
repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine >>>>>> ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on >>>>>> their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send >>>>>> in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to >>>>>> bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think >>>>>> Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as >>>>>> much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when >>>>>> they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are >>>>>> overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the
resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived>>>>> the USSR for
most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of
life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of
repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard >>>>>> way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt
attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viableMy bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being
country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of >>>>>> agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back >>>>>> to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been >>>>>> unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I
don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA >>>>>> to a>>>> halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power
stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build >>>>>> replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the >>>>>> San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma Prieta earthquake caused >>>>>> and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple >>>>>> semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve >>>>>> of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking >>>>>> their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2
buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to
destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still >>>>>> do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize
your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>> 's >>>>>> performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>> >>>>>> same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>> >>>>>> various cable networks all agree. Russia's invasion has been a>>
clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems>> and >>>>>> a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were>>
there.>>>> It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US >>>>>> and NATO forces>> could make mincemeat of the 40 mile long line of >>>>>> Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, >>>>>> all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would
probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world" >>>>>> style war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small
arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are >>>>>> not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really
don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That might be >>>>>> what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right now I >>>>>> doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his
citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia may be the >>>>>> ones to stop this and knock a little shine> off of Putin. I still bet >>>>>> he keeps the Donbass area.> .I think the Russian civilian population >>>>>> is experiencing a similarenlightenment that the US civilian
population experienced startingin the mid 60's with the war in
Vietnam.Post Soviet Russia is not the same as it was prior to
1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais >>>>>> available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto
information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold >>>>>> over from the Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't
even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a
"palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" >>>>>> arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not
living in the worldof 2022.Ultimately I think the Russian people will >>>>>> be the cause ofhis downfall. I also think that eventually the same >>>>>> may betrue in China.If you keep your citizens like mushrooms ...
living in darkcaves and feeding them bullshit you can maintain power. >>>>>> Butonce the sunlight starts to illuminate what is around them,the
revolts begin.-- This email has been checked for viruses by
AVG.https://www.avg.com>>>>>> Someone should start a go fund me to >>>>>> finance Putins removal>> Some oligarch in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd >>>>>> contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long
conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social >>>>>> distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he
lives in and is pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.
I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
===
We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces andWayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin
failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see >>>> an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a
declaration of war, a war with no winners. Even if only 5% of Russian
nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin
will have to be removed from within.
out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange >>> anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with
overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops >>> who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't
going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the
Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway,
like a cornered snake.
I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight
this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking
that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens.
I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands
what it means.
==
It's likely that we are already engaged in covert actions in Ukraine.
Trying to take Putin out on his home turf would be extremely difficult
however and might very well energize Russian sentiment against us, just
as a similar attempt would energize US citizens. Any attempts at
targeted assassination would surely invite reciprocal actions and that
would go downhill quickly.
Since the ruble has lost 30% and is in free fall, I think the Russian
People, who really don’t like Putin, would be happy he was gone. In the
last 20 years, he has consolidated immense power in a very small group.
On Sun, 6 Mar 2022 00:11:46 -0000 (UTC), Bill <califbill9998remove8@gmail.com> wrote:
waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com <wayne.beardsley@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 11:27:45 AM UTC-5, Mr. Luddite wrote:
On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, >>>>>>> March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 >>>>>>> 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" >>>>>>> <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, >>>>>>> gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite"
<not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM,
gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>
<califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>
<califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com>
wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> >>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t >>>>>>> think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power substations. Then
mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the >>>>>>> people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. >>>>>>> Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the
cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to run on auxiliary
power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet >>>>>>> repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine >>>>>>> ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on >>>>>>> their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>> like the US and they might send >>>>>>> in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to >>>>>>> bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think >>>>>>> Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as >>>>>>> much as we do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when >>>>>>> they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are >>>>>>> overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the >>>>>>> resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they lived>>>>> the USSR for >>>>>>> most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of >>>>>>> life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of
repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard >>>>>>> way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt
attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viableMy bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being
country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of >>>>>>> agrement that the>>>>> Eastern regions, that would willingly go back >>>>>>> to being Russia, be>>>>> allowed to, this whole thing might have been >>>>>>> unnecessary. It is the>>>>> likely outcome anyway.>>>>>>>>>>>>> I >>>>>>> don?t think it would take too many assets to bring Russia or the USA >>>>>>> to a>>>> halt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power
stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build >>>>>>> replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the >>>>>>> San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma Prieta earthquake caused >>>>>>> and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple >>>>>>> semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve >>>>>>> of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking >>>>>>> their homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2
buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to
destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still >>>>>>> do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize >>>>>>> your post is a few days old but based on the Russian military>> 's >>>>>>> performance so far in Ukraine, it sure doesn't seem to be of the>> >>>>>>> same caliber it was years ago. Several former US generals on the>> >>>>>>> various cable networks all agree. Russia's invasion has been a>> >>>>>>> clusterfuck so far. Munition malfunctions, logistical problems>> and >>>>>>> a bunch of young conscripts who didn't even know why they were>> >>>>>>> there.>>>> It's too bad the nuke issue hangs over this. I think US >>>>>>> and NATO forces>> could make mincemeat of the 40 mile long line of >>>>>>> Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, >>>>>>> all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would >>>>>>> probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world" >>>>>>> style war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small >>>>>>> arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are >>>>>>> not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really >>>>>>> don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That might be >>>>>>> what it takes to turn them into> an army out for revenge. Right now I >>>>>>> doubt Putin is doing a very good> job in selling this war to his >>>>>>> citizens. On the bright side, the big > money in Russia may be the >>>>>>> ones to stop this and knock a little shine> off of Putin. I still bet >>>>>>> he keeps the Donbass area.> .I think the Russian civilian population >>>>>>> is experiencing a similarenlightenment that the US civilian
population experienced startingin the mid 60's with the war in
Vietnam.Post Soviet Russia is not the same as it was prior to
1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais >>>>>>> available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto
information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold >>>>>>> over from the Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't >>>>>>> even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a
"palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" >>>>>>> arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not >>>>>>> living in the worldof 2022.Ultimately I think the Russian people will >>>>>>> be the cause ofhis downfall. I also think that eventually the same >>>>>>> may betrue in China.If you keep your citizens like mushrooms ... >>>>>>> living in darkcaves and feeding them bullshit you can maintain power. >>>>>>> Butonce the sunlight starts to illuminate what is around them,the >>>>>>> revolts begin.-- This email has been checked for viruses by
AVG.https://www.avg.com>>>>>> Someone should start a go fund me to >>>>>>> finance Putins removal>> Some oligarch in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd >>>>>>> contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long >>>>>>> conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social >>>>>>> distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he >>>>>>> lives in and is pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.
I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
===
We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces andWayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin >>>> out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange >>>> anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with
failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see >>>>> an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a
declaration of war, a war with no winners. Even if only 5% of Russian >>>>> nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin >>>>> will have to be removed from within.
overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops >>>> who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't >>>> going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the
Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway,
like a cornered snake.
I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight
this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking
that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens.
I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands
what it means.
==
It's likely that we are already engaged in covert actions in Ukraine.
Trying to take Putin out on his home turf would be extremely difficult
however and might very well energize Russian sentiment against us, just
as a similar attempt would energize US citizens. Any attempts at
targeted assassination would surely invite reciprocal actions and that
would go downhill quickly.
Since the ruble has lost 30% and is in free fall, I think the Russian
People, who really donÂ’t like Putin, would be happy he was gone. In the
last 20 years, he has consolidated immense power in a very small group.
But you won't. You love him. You're a little commie shit.
On 3/6/2022 6:52 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com>
On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 11:27:33 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r>>>
substations.auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>>
Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to run on
two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>>the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation or
small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize your posthalt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma
Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking their homeland. A
mincemeatassuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That might
of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world" style war,
isdays. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not living in
not the same as it was prior to 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold over from the Soviet
oligarchmuch isolated from contact with anyone.
in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he lives in and is pretty
Even if only 5% of Russian nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin will have to be removed from within.
I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
===
We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces and failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a declaration of war, a war with no winners.
Wayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin
out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange >>> anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with
overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops >>> who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't
going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the
Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway,
like a cornered snake.
I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight
this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking
that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens.
I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands
what it means.
I think we should publicly stay back. We can support Ukraine quietly
and that makes the Russians look worse as the rag tag Ukraine army
hurts them. It was a losing war in Afghanistan that lead to toppling
Gorbachev. That was supposed to be easy too.
Putin isn't Gorbachev. Gorbachev was an enlightened leader who
genuinely wanted to change the Soviet Union culture and global
relations. It wasn't just due to Afghanistan.
Putin is more like Stalin. And Hitler.
On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 08:58:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 3/6/2022 6:52 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 11:27:33 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r>>
auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>>substations.
Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to run on
lived>>>>>two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>>
the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation or
small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize your posthalt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma
Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking their homeland. A
assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That mightmincemeat
of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world" style war,
days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not living inis
not the same as it was prior to 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold over from the Soviet
pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.oligarch
in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he lives in and is
Even if only 5% of Russian nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin will have to be removed from within.
I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
===
We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces and failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a declaration of war, a war with no winners.
Wayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin >>>> out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange >>>> anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with
overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops >>>> who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't >>>> going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the
Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway,
like a cornered snake.
I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight
this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking
that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens.
I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands
what it means.
I think we should publicly stay back. We can support Ukraine quietly
and that makes the Russians look worse as the rag tag Ukraine army
hurts them. It was a losing war in Afghanistan that lead to toppling
Gorbachev. That was supposed to be easy too.
Putin isn't Gorbachev. Gorbachev was an enlightened leader who
genuinely wanted to change the Soviet Union culture and global
relations. It wasn't just due to Afghanistan.
Putin is more like Stalin. And Hitler.
Nobody is like Stalin and Hitler. That is hyperbole.
Putin is just the color of the month and this stupid war of his might
lead to the big money in Russia pushing him out, maybe even whacking
him.
He even seems to be figuring out taking all of Ukraine isn't going to
happen without a bigger war than he planned.
It looks like he is giving the west a bail out option, pretty much
what I predicted. If we let him keep Crimea, that he already has, let
Donbass be independent and keep Ukraine out of NATO he will pull back.
It might be as good as we will get without direct intervention and
that will most likely turn out worse anyway.
On Tue, 08 Mar 2022 20:37:36 -0500, gfre...@aol.com wrote:on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>
On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 08:58:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> >wrote:
On 3/6/2022 6:52 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 11:27:33 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
wrote:
On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:
wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@gmail.
wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power
substations.
Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to run
like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as much as we do,but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they
two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>>lived>>>>>
the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation or
A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize your posthalt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma
Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking their homeland.
assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That mightmincemeat
of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world" style war,
Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and notis
not the same as it was prior to 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold over from the
pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.oligarch
in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he lives in and is
Even if only 5% of Russian nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin will have to be removed from within.
I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
===
We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces and failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a declaration of war, a war with no winners.
Wayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin >>>> out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange
anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with
overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops
who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't >>>> going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the
Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway, >>>> like a cornered snake.
I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight >>>> this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking >>>> that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens. >>>>
I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands >>>> what it means.
I think we should publicly stay back. We can support Ukraine quietly
and that makes the Russians look worse as the rag tag Ukraine army
hurts them. It was a losing war in Afghanistan that lead to toppling
Gorbachev. That was supposed to be easy too.
Putin isn't Gorbachev. Gorbachev was an enlightened leader who
genuinely wanted to change the Soviet Union culture and global >>relations. It wasn't just due to Afghanistan.
Putin is more like Stalin. And Hitler.
Nobody is like Stalin and Hitler. That is hyperbole.I honestly don't remember your prediction. This would be the most
Putin is just the color of the month and this stupid war of his might
lead to the big money in Russia pushing him out, maybe even whacking
him.
He even seems to be figuring out taking all of Ukraine isn't going to >happen without a bigger war than he planned.
It looks like he is giving the west a bail out option, pretty much
what I predicted. If we let him keep Crimea, that he already has, let >Donbass be independent and keep Ukraine out of NATO he will pull back.
It might be as good as we will get without direct intervention and
that will most likely turn out worse anyway.
recent in a long line of predictions you say you've made, but I sure
don't recall it.
Perhaps I'm just getting old!
On 3/8/2022 8:37 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com>
On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 08:58:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>
wrote:
On 3/6/2022 6:52 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 11:27:33 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r>
on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>substations.
Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to run
like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as much as we do,but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they
two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>>lived>>>>>
the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation or
small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize your posthalt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma
Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking their homeland. A
assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That mightmincemeat
of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world" style war,
days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not living inis
not the same as it was prior to 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold over from the Soviet
pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.oligarch
in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he lives in and is
Even if only 5% of Russian nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin will have to be removed from within.
I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
===
We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces and failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a declaration of war, a war with no winners.
Don't understand how you think comparing Putin to be more
Wayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin >>>>> out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange >>>>> anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with
overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops >>>>> who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't >>>>> going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the
Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway, >>>>> like a cornered snake.
I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight >>>>> this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking
that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens. >>>>>
I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands >>>>> what it means.
I think we should publicly stay back. We can support Ukraine quietly
and that makes the Russians look worse as the rag tag Ukraine army
hurts them. It was a losing war in Afghanistan that lead to toppling
Gorbachev. That was supposed to be easy too.
Putin isn't Gorbachev. Gorbachev was an enlightened leader who
genuinely wanted to change the Soviet Union culture and global
relations. It wasn't just due to Afghanistan.
Putin is more like Stalin. And Hitler.
Nobody is like Stalin and Hitler. That is hyperbole.
Putin is just the color of the month and this stupid war of his might
lead to the big money in Russia pushing him out, maybe even whacking
him.
He even seems to be figuring out taking all of Ukraine isn't going to
happen without a bigger war than he planned.
It looks like he is giving the west a bail out option, pretty much
what I predicted. If we let him keep Crimea, that he already has, let
Donbass be independent and keep Ukraine out of NATO he will pull back.
It might be as good as we will get without direct intervention and
that will most likely turn out worse anyway.
like Stalin or Hitler as compared to Gorbachev is "hyperbole".
I am sure you are aware of all of their backgrounds and ambitions.
On Tue, 08 Mar 2022 20:37:36 -0500, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com>
On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 08:58:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com> >>wrote:
On 3/6/2022 6:52 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 11:27:33 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r>
on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>substations.
Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to run
like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as much as we do,but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they
two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>>lived>>>>>
the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation or
small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize your posthalt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma
Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking their homeland. A
assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That mightmincemeat
of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world" style war,
days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not living inis
not the same as it was prior to 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold over from the Soviet
pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.oligarch
in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he lives in and is
Even if only 5% of Russian nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin will have to be removed from within.
I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
===
We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces and failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a declaration of war, a war with no winners.
Wayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin >>>>> out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange >>>>> anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with
overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops >>>>> who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't >>>>> going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the
Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway, >>>>> like a cornered snake.
I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight >>>>> this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking
that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens. >>>>>
I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands >>>>> what it means.
I think we should publicly stay back. We can support Ukraine quietly
and that makes the Russians look worse as the rag tag Ukraine army
hurts them. It was a losing war in Afghanistan that lead to toppling
Gorbachev. That was supposed to be easy too.
Putin isn't Gorbachev. Gorbachev was an enlightened leader who
genuinely wanted to change the Soviet Union culture and global
relations. It wasn't just due to Afghanistan.
Putin is more like Stalin. And Hitler.
Nobody is like Stalin and Hitler. That is hyperbole.
Putin is just the color of the month and this stupid war of his might
lead to the big money in Russia pushing him out, maybe even whacking
him.
He even seems to be figuring out taking all of Ukraine isn't going to >>happen without a bigger war than he planned.
It looks like he is giving the west a bail out option, pretty much
what I predicted. If we let him keep Crimea, that he already has, let >>Donbass be independent and keep Ukraine out of NATO he will pull back.
It might be as good as we will get without direct intervention and
that will most likely turn out worse anyway.
I honestly don't remember your prediction. This would be the most
recent in a long line of predictions you say you've made, but I sure
don't recall it.
Perhaps I'm just getting old!
On Wed, 09 Mar 2022 15:22:02 -0500, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>
On Tue, 08 Mar 2022 20:37:36 -0500, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 08:58:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com> >>>wrote:
On 3/6/2022 6:52 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 11:27:33 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com> >>>>> wrote:
On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:
wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@gmail.
wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power
substations.
Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to run
like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as much as we do,but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they
two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>>lived>>>>>
the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation or
Lomahalt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>>
A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize your postPrieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking their homeland.
assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That mightmincemeat
of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world" style war,
RussiaSoviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and not
is
not the same as it was prior to 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold over from the
pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.oligarch
in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he lives in and is
Even if only 5% of Russian nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin will have to be removed from within.
I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
===
We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces and failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a declaration of war, a war with no winners.
Wayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin >>>>>> out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange >>>>>> anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with >>>>>> overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops >>>>>> who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't >>>>>> going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the
Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway, >>>>>> like a cornered snake.
I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight >>>>>> this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking >>>>>> that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens. >>>>>>
I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands >>>>>> what it means.
I think we should publicly stay back. We can support Ukraine quietly >>>>> and that makes the Russians look worse as the rag tag Ukraine army
hurts them. It was a losing war in Afghanistan that lead to toppling >>>>> Gorbachev. That was supposed to be easy too.
Putin isn't Gorbachev. Gorbachev was an enlightened leader who >>>>genuinely wanted to change the Soviet Union culture and global >>>>relations. It wasn't just due to Afghanistan.
Putin is more like Stalin. And Hitler.
Nobody is like Stalin and Hitler. That is hyperbole.
Putin is just the color of the month and this stupid war of his might >>>lead to the big money in Russia pushing him out, maybe even whacking
him.
He even seems to be figuring out taking all of Ukraine isn't going to >>>happen without a bigger war than he planned.
It looks like he is giving the west a bail out option, pretty much
what I predicted. If we let him keep Crimea, that he already has, let >>>Donbass be independent and keep Ukraine out of NATO he will pull back.
It might be as good as we will get without direct intervention and
that will most likely turn out worse anyway.
I honestly don't remember your prediction. This would be the most
recent in a long line of predictions you say you've made, but I sure
don't recall it.
Perhaps I'm just getting old!
On 2/27 in this thread I said
"Time will tell but my guess is the Russians will pull back to the
Dombass and that will be the end of it, unless somebody does something >stupid".
There were other similar things going all the way back to when this
was just a threat.
On Wednesday, 9 March 2022 at 16:22:05 UTC-4, John H wrote:on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>
On Tue, 08 Mar 2022 20:37:36 -0500, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 08:58:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
wrote:
On 3/6/2022 6:52 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 11:27:33 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> >>>>> wrote:
On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote:
"Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:
wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@gmail.
wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power
substations.
Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to run
like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as much as we do,but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they
two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>>lived>>>>>
the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation or
A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize your posthalt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma
Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking their homeland.
assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That mightmincemeat
of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world" style war,
Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and notis
not the same as it was prior to 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold over from the
pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.oligarch
in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he lives in and is
Even if only 5% of Russian nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin will have to be removed from within.I wonder what air defenses his palace has?===
We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces and failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a declaration of war, a war with no winners.
I honestly don't remember your prediction. This would be the mostNobody is like Stalin and Hitler. That is hyperbole.Putin isn't Gorbachev. Gorbachev was an enlightened leader whoWayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin >>>>>> out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange >>>>>> anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with >>>>>> overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops >>>>>> who are there ... seemingly ill -led.I think we should publicly stay back. We can support Ukraine quietly >>>>> and that makes the Russians look worse as the rag tag Ukraine army
If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't >>>>>> going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the
Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway, >>>>>> like a cornered snake.
I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight >>>>>> this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking >>>>>> that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens. >>>>>>
I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands >>>>>> what it means.
hurts them. It was a losing war in Afghanistan that lead to toppling >>>>> Gorbachev. That was supposed to be easy too.
genuinely wanted to change the Soviet Union culture and global
relations. It wasn't just due to Afghanistan.
Putin is more like Stalin. And Hitler.
Putin is just the color of the month and this stupid war of his might
lead to the big money in Russia pushing him out, maybe even whacking
him.
He even seems to be figuring out taking all of Ukraine isn't going to
happen without a bigger war than he planned.
It looks like he is giving the west a bail out option, pretty much
what I predicted. If we let him keep Crimea, that he already has, let
Donbass be independent and keep Ukraine out of NATO he will pull back.
It might be as good as we will get without direct intervention and
that will most likely turn out worse anyway.
recent in a long line of predictions you say you've made, but I sure
don't recall it.
Perhaps I'm just getting old!
....or stupid!
True North wrote:message:r>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@
On Wednesday, 9 March 2022 at 16:22:05 UTC-4, John H wrote:
On Tue, 08 Mar 2022 20:37:36 -0500, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 08:58:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
wrote:
On 3/6/2022 6:52 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 11:27:33 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> >>>>> wrote:
On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote: >>>>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in
run on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>substations.
Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to
do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind theylike the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as much as we
or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>>lived>>>>>
the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation
A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize yourhalt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>> Loma
Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking their homeland.
assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That mightmincemeat
of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world" style war,
Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and notis
not the same as it was prior to 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold over from the
pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.oligarch
in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he lives in and is
Even if only 5% of Russian nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin will have to be removed from within.I wonder what air defenses his palace has?===
We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces and failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a declaration of war, a war with no winners.
I honestly don't remember your prediction. This would be the mostNobody is like Stalin and Hitler. That is hyperbole.Putin isn't Gorbachev. Gorbachev was an enlightened leader whoWayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take PutinI think we should publicly stay back. We can support Ukraine quietly >>>>> and that makes the Russians look worse as the rag tag Ukraine army >>>>> hurts them. It was a losing war in Afghanistan that lead to toppling >>>>> Gorbachev. That was supposed to be easy too.
out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange
anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with >>>>>> overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops
who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't
going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the
Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway, >>>>>> like a cornered snake.
I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight >>>>>> this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking >>>>>> that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens. >>>>>>
I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands >>>>>> what it means.
genuinely wanted to change the Soviet Union culture and global
relations. It wasn't just due to Afghanistan.
Putin is more like Stalin. And Hitler.
Putin is just the color of the month and this stupid war of his might >>> lead to the big money in Russia pushing him out, maybe even whacking
him.
He even seems to be figuring out taking all of Ukraine isn't going to >>> happen without a bigger war than he planned.
It looks like he is giving the west a bail out option, pretty much
what I predicted. If we let him keep Crimea, that he already has, let >>> Donbass be independent and keep Ukraine out of NATO he will pull back. >>> It might be as good as we will get without direct intervention and
that will most likely turn out worse anyway.
recent in a long line of predictions you say you've made, but I sure
don't recall it.
Perhaps I'm just getting old!
....or stupid!Dipshit.
On Wed, 09 Mar 2022 18:35:44 -0500, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>
On Wed, 09 Mar 2022 15:22:02 -0500, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
On Tue, 08 Mar 2022 20:37:36 -0500, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 08:58:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com> >>>>wrote:
On 3/6/2022 6:52 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 11:27:33 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com> >>>>>> wrote:
On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote: >>>>>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:
wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@gmail.
wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power
substations.
Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to run
like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as much as we do,but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they
or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>>lived>>>>>
the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation
A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize your postLomahalt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>>
Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking their homeland.
assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That mightmincemeat
of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world" style war,
Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and notRussia
is
not the same as it was prior to 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold over from the
pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.oligarch
in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he lives in and is
Even if only 5% of Russian nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin will have to be removed from within.
I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
===
We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces and failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a declaration of war, a war with no winners.
Wayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin >>>>>>> out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange
anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with >>>>>>> overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops
who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't >>>>>>> going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the
Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway, >>>>>>> like a cornered snake.
I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight >>>>>>> this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking >>>>>>> that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens. >>>>>>>
I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands >>>>>>> what it means.
I think we should publicly stay back. We can support Ukraine quietly >>>>>> and that makes the Russians look worse as the rag tag Ukraine army >>>>>> hurts them. It was a losing war in Afghanistan that lead to toppling >>>>>> Gorbachev. That was supposed to be easy too.
Putin isn't Gorbachev. Gorbachev was an enlightened leader who >>>>>genuinely wanted to change the Soviet Union culture and global >>>>>relations. It wasn't just due to Afghanistan.
Putin is more like Stalin. And Hitler.
Nobody is like Stalin and Hitler. That is hyperbole.
Putin is just the color of the month and this stupid war of his might >>>>lead to the big money in Russia pushing him out, maybe even whacking >>>>him.
He even seems to be figuring out taking all of Ukraine isn't going to >>>>happen without a bigger war than he planned.
It looks like he is giving the west a bail out option, pretty much
what I predicted. If we let him keep Crimea, that he already has, let >>>>Donbass be independent and keep Ukraine out of NATO he will pull back. >>>>It might be as good as we will get without direct intervention and
that will most likely turn out worse anyway.
I honestly don't remember your prediction. This would be the most
recent in a long line of predictions you say you've made, but I sure >>>don't recall it.
Perhaps I'm just getting old!
On 2/27 in this thread I said
"Time will tell but my guess is the Russians will pull back to the
Dombass and that will be the end of it, unless somebody does something >>stupid".
There were other similar things going all the way back to when this
was just a threat.
Well, partially!
On 3/9/2022 6:27 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>>>>>
On Wed, 9 Mar 2022 06:50:12 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>
wrote:
On 3/8/2022 8:37 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 08:58:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>
wrote:
On 3/6/2022 6:52 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 11:27:33 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com> >>>>>> wrote:
On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote: >>>>>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:
wrote:>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 05:34:09 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.com> wrote:>>>>>>>>>>> <gfre...@aol.com> wrote:>>>>>>> On Sat, 26 Feb 2022 20:03:35 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>>>>>> <califbill9...@gmail.On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@gmail.
wrote:>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Since I don?t think they can defeat the amount of Russians Putin will throw>>>>>>>> at them, they should take the war to Russia. Start by blowing up the>>>>>>>> transformers at lots of major power
substations.
Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to run
like the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as much as we do,but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind they
or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>>lived>>>>>
the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation
A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize your postLomahalt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>>
Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking their homeland.
assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That mightmincemeat
of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world" style war,
Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and notRussia
is
not the same as it was prior to 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold over from the
pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.oligarch
in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he lives in and is
Even if only 5% of Russian nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin will have to be removed from within.
I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
===
We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces and failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a declaration of war, a war with no winners.
Don't understand how you think comparing Putin to be more
Wayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin >>>>>>> out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange
anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with >>>>>>> overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops
who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't >>>>>>> going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the
Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway, >>>>>>> like a cornered snake.
I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight >>>>>>> this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking >>>>>>> that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens. >>>>>>>
I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands >>>>>>> what it means.
I think we should publicly stay back. We can support Ukraine quietly >>>>>> and that makes the Russians look worse as the rag tag Ukraine army >>>>>> hurts them. It was a losing war in Afghanistan that lead to toppling >>>>>> Gorbachev. That was supposed to be easy too.
Putin isn't Gorbachev. Gorbachev was an enlightened leader who
genuinely wanted to change the Soviet Union culture and global
relations. It wasn't just due to Afghanistan.
Putin is more like Stalin. And Hitler.
Nobody is like Stalin and Hitler. That is hyperbole.
Putin is just the color of the month and this stupid war of his might
lead to the big money in Russia pushing him out, maybe even whacking
him.
He even seems to be figuring out taking all of Ukraine isn't going to
happen without a bigger war than he planned.
It looks like he is giving the west a bail out option, pretty much
what I predicted. If we let him keep Crimea, that he already has, let
Donbass be independent and keep Ukraine out of NATO he will pull back. >>>> It might be as good as we will get without direct intervention and
that will most likely turn out worse anyway.
like Stalin or Hitler as compared to Gorbachev is "hyperbole".
I am sure you are aware of all of their backgrounds and ambitions.
Hitler and to some extent Stalin are in a class of evil all to
themselves. Putin is just another Russian politician who is using
nationalism to protect his phony baloney job.
To start with Putin has nowhere near the rabid following Hitler had. I
know he is suppressing dissent as much as he can but Russia isn't
China and there may be a limit to how much he can actually control
public opinion. If he loses his big money men, he might find himself
relegated to a dacha on the black sea or in an unmarked grave.
I still say he is going to settle for the Eastern Russian speaking
region and keeping Ukraine out of NATO in the near future. The rest of
the invasion was an overreach or maybe just a negotiating tactic. He
has already made that offer.
Hitler had fewer rabid followers than you might think. The power he
had was the fear of being eliminated if you didn't obey.
Putin is much the same.
On Wed, 09 Mar 2022 19:29:10 -0500, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:message:r>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@
On Wed, 09 Mar 2022 18:35:44 -0500, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
On Wed, 09 Mar 2022 15:22:02 -0500, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
On Tue, 08 Mar 2022 20:37:36 -0500, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 08:58:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com> >>>>>wrote:
On 3/6/2022 6:52 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 11:27:33 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com> >>>>>>> wrote:
On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote: >>>>>>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in
run on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>substations.
Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to
do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind theylike the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as much as we
or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>>lived>>>>>
the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation
A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize yourhalt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>>
Loma
Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking their homeland.
assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That mightmincemeat
of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world" style war,
Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and notRussia
is
not the same as it was prior to 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold over from the
pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.oligarch
in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he lives in and is
winners. Even if only 5% of Russian nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin will have to be removed from within.
I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
===
We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces and failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a declaration of war, a war with no
Wayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin >>>>>>>> out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange
anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with >>>>>>>> overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops
who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't
going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the >>>>>>>> Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway, >>>>>>>> like a cornered snake.
I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight >>>>>>>> this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking >>>>>>>> that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens. >>>>>>>>
I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands >>>>>>>> what it means.
I think we should publicly stay back. We can support Ukraine quietly >>>>>>> and that makes the Russians look worse as the rag tag Ukraine army >>>>>>> hurts them. It was a losing war in Afghanistan that lead to toppling >>>>>>> Gorbachev. That was supposed to be easy too.
Putin isn't Gorbachev. Gorbachev was an enlightened leader who >>>>>>genuinely wanted to change the Soviet Union culture and global >>>>>>relations. It wasn't just due to Afghanistan.
Putin is more like Stalin. And Hitler.
Nobody is like Stalin and Hitler. That is hyperbole.
Putin is just the color of the month and this stupid war of his might >>>>>lead to the big money in Russia pushing him out, maybe even whacking >>>>>him.
He even seems to be figuring out taking all of Ukraine isn't going to >>>>>happen without a bigger war than he planned.
It looks like he is giving the west a bail out option, pretty much >>>>>what I predicted. If we let him keep Crimea, that he already has, let >>>>>Donbass be independent and keep Ukraine out of NATO he will pull back. >>>>>It might be as good as we will get without direct intervention and >>>>>that will most likely turn out worse anyway.
I honestly don't remember your prediction. This would be the most >>>>recent in a long line of predictions you say you've made, but I sure >>>>don't recall it.
Perhaps I'm just getting old!
On 2/27 in this thread I said
"Time will tell but my guess is the Russians will pull back to the >>>Dombass and that will be the end of it, unless somebody does something >>>stupid".
There were other similar things going all the way back to when this
was just a threat.
Well, partially!
Putin laid out 4 conditions.
1. Let Donbass be independent of Ukraine,
2. Let him keep Crimea as if that was ever even a question,
3. Ukraine can't be in NATO
4. Everyone stop shooting.
The only real issue in all of that was Donbass and I predict if he
gets that, the war is over.
I don't think NATO even wanted Ukraine before this and they sure won't
kick that tar baby now. Crimea was a done deal during the Obama >administration.
It is just sad so many people had to die for something this stupid.
Five years ago in a poll, the east wanted to be separate from Ukraine
and more closely aligned with Russia ... but still independent.
They speak Russian, they are mostly of the Russian Orthodox religion
and they are culturally of Russian heritage.
On Thu, 10 Mar 2022 00:55:20 -0500, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:message:r>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@
On Wed, 09 Mar 2022 19:29:10 -0500, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
On Wed, 09 Mar 2022 18:35:44 -0500, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
On Wed, 09 Mar 2022 15:22:02 -0500, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
On Tue, 08 Mar 2022 20:37:36 -0500, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 08:58:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com> >>>>>>wrote:
On 3/6/2022 6:52 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 11:27:33 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com> >>>>>>>> wrote:
On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in
run on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>substations.
Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to
do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind theylike the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as much as we
or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrement that the>>>>>lived>>>>>
the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a generation
homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realizehalt. Destroy the transformers at a few major power stations. How many>>>> spares are a available, and how long to build replacements? A few bridges>>>> taken out. Look how much havoc the San Francisco Bay taken out in the>>>>
Loma
Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking their
assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That mightmincemeat
of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world" style war,
Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and notRussia
is
not the same as it was prior to 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold over from the
pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.oligarch
in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he lives in and is
winners. Even if only 5% of Russian nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin will have to be removed from within.
I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
===
We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces and failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a declaration of war, a war with no
Wayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin
out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange
anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with >>>>>>>>> overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops
who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't
going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the >>>>>>>>> Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway, >>>>>>>>> like a cornered snake.
I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight >>>>>>>>> this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking >>>>>>>>> that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens. >>>>>>>>>
I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands >>>>>>>>> what it means.
I think we should publicly stay back. We can support Ukraine quietly >>>>>>>> and that makes the Russians look worse as the rag tag Ukraine army >>>>>>>> hurts them. It was a losing war in Afghanistan that lead to toppling >>>>>>>> Gorbachev. That was supposed to be easy too.
Putin isn't Gorbachev. Gorbachev was an enlightened leader who >>>>>>>genuinely wanted to change the Soviet Union culture and global >>>>>>>relations. It wasn't just due to Afghanistan.
Putin is more like Stalin. And Hitler.
Nobody is like Stalin and Hitler. That is hyperbole.
Putin is just the color of the month and this stupid war of his might >>>>>>lead to the big money in Russia pushing him out, maybe even whacking >>>>>>him.
He even seems to be figuring out taking all of Ukraine isn't going to >>>>>>happen without a bigger war than he planned.
It looks like he is giving the west a bail out option, pretty much >>>>>>what I predicted. If we let him keep Crimea, that he already has, let >>>>>>Donbass be independent and keep Ukraine out of NATO he will pull back. >>>>>>It might be as good as we will get without direct intervention and >>>>>>that will most likely turn out worse anyway.
I honestly don't remember your prediction. This would be the most >>>>>recent in a long line of predictions you say you've made, but I sure >>>>>don't recall it.
Perhaps I'm just getting old!
On 2/27 in this thread I said
"Time will tell but my guess is the Russians will pull back to the >>>>Dombass and that will be the end of it, unless somebody does something >>>>stupid".
There were other similar things going all the way back to when this
was just a threat.
Well, partially!
Putin laid out 4 conditions.
1. Let Donbass be independent of Ukraine,
2. Let him keep Crimea as if that was ever even a question,
3. Ukraine can't be in NATO
4. Everyone stop shooting.
The only real issue in all of that was Donbass and I predict if he
gets that, the war is over.
I don't think NATO even wanted Ukraine before this and they sure won't
kick that tar baby now. Crimea was a done deal during the Obama >>administration.
It is just sad so many people had to die for something this stupid.
Five years ago in a poll, the east wanted to be separate from Ukraine
and more closely aligned with Russia ... but still independent.
They speak Russian, they are mostly of the Russian Orthodox religion
and they are culturally of Russian heritage.
You forgot 'demilitarization and neutral status', or did I miss it in
your predictions?
On Fri, 11 Mar 2022 12:59:53 -0500, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:message:r>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@
On Thu, 10 Mar 2022 00:55:20 -0500, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
On Wed, 09 Mar 2022 19:29:10 -0500, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
On Wed, 09 Mar 2022 18:35:44 -0500, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
On Wed, 09 Mar 2022 15:22:02 -0500, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
On Tue, 08 Mar 2022 20:37:36 -0500, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 08:58:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com> >>>>>>>wrote:
On 3/6/2022 6:52 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 11:27:33 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in
run on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>substations.
Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to
do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind theylike the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as much as we
generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrementlived>>>>>
the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a
homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realizeLoma
Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking their
assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. Thatmincemeat
of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world" style war,
Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and notRussia
is
not the same as it was prior to 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold over from the
pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.oligarch
in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he lives in and is
winners. Even if only 5% of Russian nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin will have to be removed from within.
I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
===
We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces and failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a declaration of war, a war with no
Wayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin
out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange
anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with >>>>>>>>>> overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops
who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't
going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the >>>>>>>>>> Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway,
like a cornered snake.
I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight
this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking >>>>>>>>>> that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens. >>>>>>>>>>
I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands >>>>>>>>>> what it means.
I think we should publicly stay back. We can support Ukraine quietly >>>>>>>>> and that makes the Russians look worse as the rag tag Ukraine army >>>>>>>>> hurts them. It was a losing war in Afghanistan that lead to toppling >>>>>>>>> Gorbachev. That was supposed to be easy too.
Putin isn't Gorbachev. Gorbachev was an enlightened leader who >>>>>>>>genuinely wanted to change the Soviet Union culture and global >>>>>>>>relations. It wasn't just due to Afghanistan.
Putin is more like Stalin. And Hitler.
Nobody is like Stalin and Hitler. That is hyperbole.
Putin is just the color of the month and this stupid war of his might >>>>>>>lead to the big money in Russia pushing him out, maybe even whacking >>>>>>>him.
He even seems to be figuring out taking all of Ukraine isn't going to >>>>>>>happen without a bigger war than he planned.
It looks like he is giving the west a bail out option, pretty much >>>>>>>what I predicted. If we let him keep Crimea, that he already has, let >>>>>>>Donbass be independent and keep Ukraine out of NATO he will pull back. >>>>>>>It might be as good as we will get without direct intervention and >>>>>>>that will most likely turn out worse anyway.
I honestly don't remember your prediction. This would be the most >>>>>>recent in a long line of predictions you say you've made, but I sure >>>>>>don't recall it.
Perhaps I'm just getting old!
On 2/27 in this thread I said
"Time will tell but my guess is the Russians will pull back to the >>>>>Dombass and that will be the end of it, unless somebody does something >>>>>stupid".
There were other similar things going all the way back to when this >>>>>was just a threat.
Well, partially!
Putin laid out 4 conditions.
1. Let Donbass be independent of Ukraine,
2. Let him keep Crimea as if that was ever even a question,
3. Ukraine can't be in NATO
4. Everyone stop shooting.
The only real issue in all of that was Donbass and I predict if he
gets that, the war is over.
I don't think NATO even wanted Ukraine before this and they sure won't >>>kick that tar baby now. Crimea was a done deal during the Obama >>>administration.
It is just sad so many people had to die for something this stupid.
Five years ago in a poll, the east wanted to be separate from Ukraine
and more closely aligned with Russia ... but still independent.
They speak Russian, they are mostly of the Russian Orthodox religion
and they are culturally of Russian heritage.
You forgot 'demilitarization and neutral status', or did I miss it in
your predictions?
I thought demilitarization and neutral status was a plus. It would be
an effective buffer between Russia and Ukraine and that is good for
everyone.
On Fri, 11 Mar 2022 23:37:57 -0500, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:message:r>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@
On Fri, 11 Mar 2022 12:59:53 -0500, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
On Thu, 10 Mar 2022 00:55:20 -0500, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
On Wed, 09 Mar 2022 19:29:10 -0500, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
On Wed, 09 Mar 2022 18:35:44 -0500, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
On Wed, 09 Mar 2022 15:22:02 -0500, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote: >>>>>>
On Tue, 08 Mar 2022 20:37:36 -0500, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 08:58:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com> >>>>>>>>wrote:
On 3/6/2022 6:52 PM, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 11:27:33 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <nothere@noland.com>
wrote:
On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatrecdotboats@hotmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in
run on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously, much>>substations.
Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber>> computers>>> going to be able to
do, but I bet it is a lot. How>>>>>> much starvation when they can not get orders to deliver food?>>>>>>>>>> I think you are overestimating what Ukraine could do and>>>>> underestimating the resilience of Russians. Bear in mind theylike the US and they might send in a million soldiers with all the>>>>>>> technology they can bring to bear.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> With the modern technology, I don?t think Russia would do well. They may>>>>>> not depend on the internet as much as we
generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrementlived>>>>>
the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a
homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize
Loma
Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking their
war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. Thatmincemeat
of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world" style
Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and notRussia
is
not the same as it was prior to 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold over from the
Someis pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.
oligarch
in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he lives in and
winners. Even if only 5% of Russian nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin will have to be removed from within.
I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
===
We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces and failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a declaration of war, a war with no
Wayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin
out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange
anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with >>>>>>>>>>> overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops
who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't
going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the >>>>>>>>>>> Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway,
like a cornered snake.
I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight
this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking >>>>>>>>>>> that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens.
I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands
what it means.
I think we should publicly stay back. We can support Ukraine quietly >>>>>>>>>> and that makes the Russians look worse as the rag tag Ukraine army >>>>>>>>>> hurts them. It was a losing war in Afghanistan that lead to toppling >>>>>>>>>> Gorbachev. That was supposed to be easy too.
Putin isn't Gorbachev. Gorbachev was an enlightened leader who >>>>>>>>>genuinely wanted to change the Soviet Union culture and global >>>>>>>>>relations. It wasn't just due to Afghanistan.
Putin is more like Stalin. And Hitler.
Nobody is like Stalin and Hitler. That is hyperbole.
Putin is just the color of the month and this stupid war of his might >>>>>>>>lead to the big money in Russia pushing him out, maybe even whacking >>>>>>>>him.
He even seems to be figuring out taking all of Ukraine isn't going to >>>>>>>>happen without a bigger war than he planned.
It looks like he is giving the west a bail out option, pretty much >>>>>>>>what I predicted. If we let him keep Crimea, that he already has, let >>>>>>>>Donbass be independent and keep Ukraine out of NATO he will pull back. >>>>>>>>It might be as good as we will get without direct intervention and >>>>>>>>that will most likely turn out worse anyway.
I honestly don't remember your prediction. This would be the most >>>>>>>recent in a long line of predictions you say you've made, but I sure >>>>>>>don't recall it.
Perhaps I'm just getting old!
On 2/27 in this thread I said
"Time will tell but my guess is the Russians will pull back to the >>>>>>Dombass and that will be the end of it, unless somebody does something >>>>>>stupid".
There were other similar things going all the way back to when this >>>>>>was just a threat.
Well, partially!
Putin laid out 4 conditions.
1. Let Donbass be independent of Ukraine,
2. Let him keep Crimea as if that was ever even a question,
3. Ukraine can't be in NATO
4. Everyone stop shooting.
The only real issue in all of that was Donbass and I predict if he
gets that, the war is over.
I don't think NATO even wanted Ukraine before this and they sure won't >>>>kick that tar baby now. Crimea was a done deal during the Obama >>>>administration.
It is just sad so many people had to die for something this stupid. >>>>Five years ago in a poll, the east wanted to be separate from Ukraine >>>>and more closely aligned with Russia ... but still independent.
They speak Russian, they are mostly of the Russian Orthodox religion >>>>and they are culturally of Russian heritage.
You forgot 'demilitarization and neutral status', or did I miss it in >>>your predictions?
I thought demilitarization and neutral status was a plus. It would be
an effective buffer between Russia and Ukraine and that is good for >>everyone.
Especially the Ukrainians who become Putins vassels, eh?
On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 17:04:02 -0500, John H <jher...@cox.net> wrote:message:r>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@
On Fri, 11 Mar 2022 23:37:57 -0500, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
On Fri, 11 Mar 2022 12:59:53 -0500, John H <jher...@cox.net> wrote:
On Thu, 10 Mar 2022 00:55:20 -0500, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
On Wed, 09 Mar 2022 19:29:10 -0500, John H <jher...@cox.net> wrote:
On Wed, 09 Mar 2022 18:35:44 -0500, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
On Wed, 09 Mar 2022 15:22:02 -0500, John H <jher...@cox.net> wrote: >>>>>>
On Tue, 08 Mar 2022 20:37:36 -0500, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 08:58:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> >>>>>>>>wrote:
On 3/6/2022 6:52 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 11:27:33 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
wrote:
On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in
to run on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously,substations.
Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber>> computers>>> going to be able
generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrementlived>>>>>
the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a
homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize
Loma
Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking their
makewar, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. That
mincemeat
of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world" style
the Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch andRussia
is
not the same as it was prior to 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold over from
is pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.Some
oligarch
in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he lives in and
winners. Even if only 5% of Russian nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin will have to be removed from within.
I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
===
We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces and failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a declaration of war, a war with no
Wayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin
out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange
anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with
overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops
who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't
going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the >>>>>>>>>>> Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway,
like a cornered snake.
I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight
this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking
that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens.
I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands
what it means.
I think we should publicly stay back. We can support Ukraine quietly
and that makes the Russians look worse as the rag tag Ukraine army
hurts them. It was a losing war in Afghanistan that lead to toppling
Gorbachev. That was supposed to be easy too.
Putin isn't Gorbachev. Gorbachev was an enlightened leader who >>>>>>>>>genuinely wanted to change the Soviet Union culture and global >>>>>>>>>relations. It wasn't just due to Afghanistan.
Putin is more like Stalin. And Hitler.
Nobody is like Stalin and Hitler. That is hyperbole.
Putin is just the color of the month and this stupid war of his might
lead to the big money in Russia pushing him out, maybe even whacking >>>>>>>>him.
He even seems to be figuring out taking all of Ukraine isn't going to
happen without a bigger war than he planned.
It looks like he is giving the west a bail out option, pretty much >>>>>>>>what I predicted. If we let him keep Crimea, that he already has, let
Donbass be independent and keep Ukraine out of NATO he will pull back.
It might be as good as we will get without direct intervention and >>>>>>>>that will most likely turn out worse anyway.
I honestly don't remember your prediction. This would be the most >>>>>>>recent in a long line of predictions you say you've made, but I sure >>>>>>>don't recall it.
Perhaps I'm just getting old!
On 2/27 in this thread I said
"Time will tell but my guess is the Russians will pull back to the >>>>>>Dombass and that will be the end of it, unless somebody does something >>>>>>stupid".
There were other similar things going all the way back to when this >>>>>>was just a threat.
Well, partially!
Putin laid out 4 conditions.
1. Let Donbass be independent of Ukraine,
2. Let him keep Crimea as if that was ever even a question,
3. Ukraine can't be in NATO
4. Everyone stop shooting.
The only real issue in all of that was Donbass and I predict if he >>>>gets that, the war is over.
I don't think NATO even wanted Ukraine before this and they sure won't >>>>kick that tar baby now. Crimea was a done deal during the Obama >>>>administration.
It is just sad so many people had to die for something this stupid. >>>>Five years ago in a poll, the east wanted to be separate from Ukraine >>>>and more closely aligned with Russia ... but still independent.
They speak Russian, they are mostly of the Russian Orthodox religion >>>>and they are culturally of Russian heritage.
You forgot 'demilitarization and neutral status', or did I miss it in >>>your predictions?
I thought demilitarization and neutral status was a plus. It would be
an effective buffer between Russia and Ukraine and that is good for >>everyone.
Especially the Ukrainians who become Putins vassels, eh?Those people were polled and over 70% said they wanted to be more
aligned to the Russians. They are Russian Orthodox, speak Russian and
have a cultural connection with Russia. Why is that any of our
business?
If we don't watch what we do, this could be WWIII and that won't be
good for anyone. It will be nuclear.
On Monday, 14 March 2022 at 03:12:11 UTC-3, gfre...@aol.com wrote:message:r>>>> On 3/3/2022 12:53 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:> On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 10:27:38 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>> wrote:> >> On 2/27/2022 12:46 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:>>> On Sun, 27 Feb 2022 16:25:34 -0000 (UTC), Bill>>> <califbill9...@
On Sat, 12 Mar 2022 17:04:02 -0500, John H <jher...@cox.net> wrote:
On Fri, 11 Mar 2022 23:37:57 -0500, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
On Fri, 11 Mar 2022 12:59:53 -0500, John H <jher...@cox.net> wrote:
On Thu, 10 Mar 2022 00:55:20 -0500, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
On Wed, 09 Mar 2022 19:29:10 -0500, John H <jher...@cox.net> wrote:
On Wed, 09 Mar 2022 18:35:44 -0500, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
On Wed, 09 Mar 2022 15:22:02 -0500, John H <jher...@cox.net> wrote:
On Tue, 08 Mar 2022 20:37:36 -0500, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
On Mon, 7 Mar 2022 08:58:03 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> >> >>>>>>>>wrote:
On 3/6/2022 6:52 PM, gfre...@aol.com wrote:
On Sat, 5 Mar 2022 11:27:33 -0500, "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com>
wrote:
On 3/5/2022 10:56 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:
On Saturday, March 5, 2022 at 10:40:21 AM UTC-5, justan wrote: >> >>>>>>>>>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in message:r
On 3/4/2022 11:02 AM, waynebatr...@hotmail.com wrote:> On Friday, March 4, 2022 at 8:41:21 AM UTC-5, John H wrote:>> On Fri, 4 Mar 2022 08:02:12 -0500 (EST), justan <m...@here.com> wrote:>>>>> "Mr. Luddite" <not...@noland.com> Wrote in
to run on auxiliary power,>>>>>>>> since the lack of power may take down the internet repeaters.>>>>>>>>>>>>>> That would be the best way to insure Ukraine ends up a smoking hole on>>>>>>> the ground. Russians take attacks on their homeland seriously,substations.
Then mine bridges>>>>>>>> connecting major areas. Run a war against the people of Russia and make>>>>>>>> them stop Putin and his cronies. Would also stop most cyber attacks, as>>>>>>>> how long is the cyber>> computers>>> going to be able
generation or two of snowflakes but I doubt it.>>>>>>>>>> My bet is if Putin could sell the idea that Russia was being attacked,>>>>> Ukraine would cease to exist as a viable country.>>>>>>>>>> The reality is if they had just made some kind of agrementlived>>>>>
the USSR for most of the 20th century where shortages were just a way>>>>> of life. They also have a couple hundred year tradition of repelling>>>>> invaders. Napoleon and Hitler found that out the hard way. They>> may>>>>>>>> have a
homeland. A small gang of>>> terrorists brought down 2 buildings here and damaged a third. It gave>>> us the excuse to destroy three countries that were not responsible at>>> all. We still do not have a good count of how many people died.>>>>>> I realize
Loma
Prieta earthquake caused and how long to replace? A couple hundred>>>> people with a couple semi?s worth of explosives.>>>>>> You do not want to test the resolve of the second most powerful>>> military in the world by>>> attacking their
war, assuming there is> no real opposition other than small arms fire on the ground.> It also appears the Russian soldiers are not that motivated. That is> why I pointed out to Bill, we really don't want to see an effective> attack on Russian soil. Thatmake
mincemeat
of the 40 mile long line of Russian tanks, missile>> launchers, troop transports and fuel trucks, all lined up three abreast>> for miles. A few A-10 Warthogs would probably due the trick.> > No doubt they are>>> fighting a "3d world" style
Sovietthe Soviet days. He doesn't use theInternet. He doesn't even live in the Kremlin ... and hasn'tfor years. He lives in a "palace" built for him back in 2005in a very controversial "business" arrangement with a wealthyRussian ally. He's out of touch and
Russia
is
not the same as it was prior to 1991.Capitalism has flourished. The Internet exists. Social Mediais available. A new generation of Russians exist with accessto information about the world beyond their>>> borders.Putin is a hold over from
and is pretty much isolated from contact with anyone.Some
oligarch
in CA offered $1M. Hell, I'd contribute.> > ===> > Based on recent photos of Putin's very long conference room table, I'd say that he is practicing extreme social distancing.I've heard that he rarely leaves the "palace" that he lives in
winners. Even if only 5% of Russian nukes actually made it, the devastation would be unimaginable. Putin will have to be removed from within.
I wonder what air defenses his palace has?
===
We repeatedly tried to bomb Saddam Hussein's so called palaces and failed to get him. 5 minutes after any attempt to bomb Putin would see an armada of nuclear warheads heading for the US. It would be a declaration of war, a war with no
Those people were polled and over 70% said they wanted to be more
Wayne, unless the Russian people (or a covert action by us) take Putin
out, I have a sinking feeling that we are heading for a nuclear exchange
anyway. It might be the best option to counter invade Ukraine with
overwhelming USA and NATO forces *now* and demoralize the Russian troops
who are there ... seemingly ill -led.
If Putin's objective to reestablish the Russian Empire sanctions aren't
going to stop him. If the sanctions become too onerous to the
Russian economy he could very well resort to a nuclear strike anyway,
like a cornered snake.
I am starting to get the feeling that the West is attempting to fight
this action by Putin based on Western principled idealism, thinking
that any sane person would recognize the hurt it brings on citizens.
I don't think Putin shares "principled idealism" or even understands
what it means.
I think we should publicly stay back. We can support Ukraine quietly
and that makes the Russians look worse as the rag tag Ukraine army
hurts them. It was a losing war in Afghanistan that lead to toppling
Gorbachev. That was supposed to be easy too.
Putin isn't Gorbachev. Gorbachev was an enlightened leader who
genuinely wanted to change the Soviet Union culture and global
relations. It wasn't just due to Afghanistan.
Putin is more like Stalin. And Hitler.
Nobody is like Stalin and Hitler. That is hyperbole.
Putin is just the color of the month and this stupid war of his might
lead to the big money in Russia pushing him out, maybe even whacking >> >>>>>>>>him.
He even seems to be figuring out taking all of Ukraine isn't going to
happen without a bigger war than he planned.
It looks like he is giving the west a bail out option, pretty much >> >>>>>>>>what I predicted. If we let him keep Crimea, that he already has, let
Donbass be independent and keep Ukraine out of NATO he will pull back.
It might be as good as we will get without direct intervention and >> >>>>>>>>that will most likely turn out worse anyway.
I honestly don't remember your prediction. This would be the most
recent in a long line of predictions you say you've made, but I sure >> >>>>>>>don't recall it.
Perhaps I'm just getting old!
On 2/27 in this thread I said
"Time will tell but my guess is the Russians will pull back to the
Dombass and that will be the end of it, unless somebody does something >> >>>>>>stupid".
There were other similar things going all the way back to when this
was just a threat.
Well, partially!
Putin laid out 4 conditions.
1. Let Donbass be independent of Ukraine,
2. Let him keep Crimea as if that was ever even a question,
3. Ukraine can't be in NATO
4. Everyone stop shooting.
The only real issue in all of that was Donbass and I predict if he
gets that, the war is over.
I don't think NATO even wanted Ukraine before this and they sure won't >> >>>>kick that tar baby now. Crimea was a done deal during the Obama
administration.
It is just sad so many people had to die for something this stupid.
Five years ago in a poll, the east wanted to be separate from Ukraine
and more closely aligned with Russia ... but still independent.
They speak Russian, they are mostly of the Russian Orthodox religion
and they are culturally of Russian heritage.
You forgot 'demilitarization and neutral status', or did I miss it in
your predictions?
I thought demilitarization and neutral status was a plus. It would be
an effective buffer between Russia and Ukraine and that is good for
everyone.
Especially the Ukrainians who become Putins vassels, eh?
aligned to the Russians. They are Russian Orthodox, speak Russian and
have a cultural connection with Russia. Why is that any of our
business?
If we don't watch what we do, this could be WWIII and that won't be
good for anyone. It will be nuclear.
Y'all have a short memory, Johnny.
What happened when your kinfolk tried to seperate from the rest of 'merica? No one let them go just because the majority of southerners wanted to.
Especially the Ukrainians who become Putins vassels, eh?
Those people were polled and over 70% said they wanted to be more
aligned to the Russians. They are Russian Orthodox, speak Russian and
have a cultural connection with Russia. Why is that any of our
business?
If we don't watch what we do, this could be WWIII and that won't be
good for anyone. It will be nuclear.
Those people were polled and over 70% said they wanted to be more
Especially the Ukrainians who become Putins vassels, eh?
aligned to the Russians. They are Russian Orthodox, speak Russian and
have a cultural connection with Russia. Why is that any of our
business?
If we don't watch what we do, this could be WWIII and that won't be
good for anyone. It will be nuclear.
Y'all have a short memory, Johnny.
What happened when your kinfolk tried to seperate from the rest of 'merica? No one let them go just because the majority of southerners wanted to.
On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 06:10:02 -0700 (PDT), True North
<prince...@gmail.com> wrote:
Those people were polled and over 70% said they wanted to be more
Especially the Ukrainians who become Putins vassels, eh?
aligned to the Russians. They are Russian Orthodox, speak Russian and
have a cultural connection with Russia. Why is that any of our
business?
If we don't watch what we do, this could be WWIII and that won't be
good for anyone. It will be nuclear.
Y'all have a short memory, Johnny.Let's wait and see if he can come up with a poll which supports his statement.
What happened when your kinfolk tried to seperate from the rest of 'merica? No one let them go just because the majority of southerners wanted to.
Donnie, I grew up on a farm in Minnesota.
What a fucking dumbass you are.
On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 02:12:48 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
Especially the Ukrainians who become Putins vassels, eh?
Those people were polled and over 70% said they wanted to be more
aligned to the Russians. They are Russian Orthodox, speak Russian and
have a cultural connection with Russia. Why is that any of our
business?
If we don't watch what we do, this could be WWIII and that won't be
good for anyone. It will be nuclear.
I would surely like to see that poll.
This poll, for which I have a link, would tend to contradict your
statement:
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/02/18/ukrainians-support-for-joining-nato-hits-record-high-poll-a76442
On Wednesday, 16 March 2022 at 15:01:14 UTC-3, John H wrote:
On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 06:10:02 -0700 (PDT), True North
<prince...@gmail.com> wrote:
Let's wait and see if he can come up with a poll which supports hisThose people were polled and over 70% said they wanted to be more
Especially the Ukrainians who become Putins vassels, eh?
aligned to the Russians. They are Russian Orthodox, speak Russian and
have a cultural connection with Russia. Why is that any of our
business?
If we don't watch what we do, this could be WWIII and that won't be
good for anyone. It will be nuclear.
Y'all have a short memory, Johnny.
What happened when your kinfolk tried to seperate from the rest of 'merica? No one let them go just because the majority of southerners wanted to.
statement.
Donnie, I grew up on a farm in Minnesota.
What a fucking dumbass you are.
Speaking about "dumbass"
Anyone with a lick of common sense would know that Greg was talking about that far eastern Dombas region.
Don't y'all have a ladder laying around that you can climb?
On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 13:59:16 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 02:12:48 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
Especially the Ukrainians who become Putins vassels, eh?
Those people were polled and over 70% said they wanted to be more
aligned to the Russians. They are Russian Orthodox, speak Russian and >>>have a cultural connection with Russia. Why is that any of our
business?
If we don't watch what we do, this could be WWIII and that won't be
good for anyone. It will be nuclear.
I would surely like to see that poll.
This poll, for which I have a link, would tend to contradict your >>statement:
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/02/18/ukrainians-support-for-joining-nato-hits-record-high-poll-a76442
You are confusing Western, catholic Ukraine with Eastern Russian
Orthodox Ukraine. I have no doubt the Western Ukrainians have no
interest in being associated with Russia. The East really just wants
to be independent of Kiev and that is all Putin asked for.
There have been a few polls with mixed results but it is clear the
Donbass want to secede from Kiev. >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Donbas_status_referendums
2014 poll
"Do you support the declaration of state independence of the Luhansk
People's Republic?"?
Yes 96.2%
No 3.8%
"Are you for maintaining your territorial community within Ukraine and >reunification with the Dnipropetrovsk Oblast"? (unifying The Donbass)
Yes 69.1%
No Against reunification and against separatism 27.2%
No against separatism 3.7%
On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 12:07:04 -0700 (PDT), True North
<prince...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, 16 March 2022 at 15:01:14 UTC-3, John H wrote:
On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 06:10:02 -0700 (PDT), True North
<prince...@gmail.com> wrote:
Let's wait and see if he can come up with a poll which supports hisThose people were polled and over 70% said they wanted to be more
Especially the Ukrainians who become Putins vassels, eh?
aligned to the Russians. They are Russian Orthodox, speak Russian and >> >> have a cultural connection with Russia. Why is that any of our
business?
If we don't watch what we do, this could be WWIII and that won't be
good for anyone. It will be nuclear.
Y'all have a short memory, Johnny.
What happened when your kinfolk tried to seperate from the rest of 'merica? No one let them go just because the majority of southerners wanted to.
statement.
Donnie, I grew up on a farm in Minnesota.
What a fucking dumbass you are.
Speaking about "dumbass"He said 'Ukranians', not 'eastern Ukranians', dumb ass!
Anyone with a lick of common sense would know that Greg was talking about that far eastern Dombas region.
Don't y'all have a ladder laying around that you can climb?
Any more comments on my 'southern heritage', dumb shit?
On Thu, 17 Mar 2022 16:34:04 -0700 (PDT), True North
<prince...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, 17 March 2022 at 19:55:05 UTC-3, John H wrote:
On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 12:07:04 -0700 (PDT), True North
<prince...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, 16 March 2022 at 15:01:14 UTC-3, John H wrote:He said 'Ukranians', not 'eastern Ukranians', dumb ass!
On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 06:10:02 -0700 (PDT), True North
<prince...@gmail.com> wrote:
Let's wait and see if he can come up with a poll which supports hisThose people were polled and over 70% said they wanted to be more
Especially the Ukrainians who become Putins vassels, eh?
aligned to the Russians. They are Russian Orthodox, speak Russian and
have a cultural connection with Russia. Why is that any of our
business?
If we don't watch what we do, this could be WWIII and that won't be >> >> >> good for anyone. It will be nuclear.
Y'all have a short memory, Johnny.
What happened when your kinfolk tried to seperate from the rest of 'merica? No one let them go just because the majority of southerners wanted to.
statement.
Donnie, I grew up on a farm in Minnesota.
What a fucking dumbass you are.
Speaking about "dumbass"
Anyone with a lick of common sense would know that Greg was talking about that far eastern Dombas region.
Don't y'all have a ladder laying around that you can climb?
Any more comments on my 'southern heritage', dumb shit?
Wow!Punctuate much, dummy?
For a supposed senior officer in the US Army y'all sure are a "dumb shit". >As I stated before anyone with a lick of sense knew he was talking about that Dombass region.
Try reading between the lines if y'all can, or get your head up out of your ass and smell the coffee.
On Thursday, 17 March 2022 at 19:55:05 UTC-3, John H wrote:
On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 12:07:04 -0700 (PDT), True North
<prince...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, 16 March 2022 at 15:01:14 UTC-3, John H wrote:He said 'Ukranians', not 'eastern Ukranians', dumb ass!
On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 06:10:02 -0700 (PDT), True North
<prince...@gmail.com> wrote:
Let's wait and see if he can come up with a poll which supports hisThose people were polled and over 70% said they wanted to be more
Especially the Ukrainians who become Putins vassels, eh?
aligned to the Russians. They are Russian Orthodox, speak Russian and >> >> >> have a cultural connection with Russia. Why is that any of our
business?
If we don't watch what we do, this could be WWIII and that won't be
good for anyone. It will be nuclear.
Y'all have a short memory, Johnny.
What happened when your kinfolk tried to seperate from the rest of 'merica? No one let them go just because the majority of southerners wanted to.
statement.
Donnie, I grew up on a farm in Minnesota.
What a fucking dumbass you are.
Speaking about "dumbass"
Anyone with a lick of common sense would know that Greg was talking about that far eastern Dombas region.
Don't y'all have a ladder laying around that you can climb?
Any more comments on my 'southern heritage', dumb shit?
Wow!
For a supposed senior officer in the US Army y'all sure are a "dumb shit". >As I stated before anyone with a lick of sense knew he was talking about that Dombass region.
Try reading between the lines if y'all can, or get your head up out of your ass and smell the coffee.
On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 12:07:04 -0700 (PDT), True North ><princecraft49@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, 16 March 2022 at 15:01:14 UTC-3, John H wrote:
On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 06:10:02 -0700 (PDT), True North
<prince...@gmail.com> wrote:
Let's wait and see if he can come up with a poll which supports hisThose people were polled and over 70% said they wanted to be more
Especially the Ukrainians who become Putins vassels, eh?
aligned to the Russians. They are Russian Orthodox, speak Russian and >>> >> have a cultural connection with Russia. Why is that any of our
business?
If we don't watch what we do, this could be WWIII and that won't be
good for anyone. It will be nuclear.
Y'all have a short memory, Johnny.
What happened when your kinfolk tried to seperate from the rest of 'merica? No one let them go just because the majority of southerners wanted to.
statement.
Donnie, I grew up on a farm in Minnesota.
What a fucking dumbass you are.
Speaking about "dumbass"
Anyone with a lick of common sense would know that Greg was talking about that far eastern Dombas region.
Don't y'all have a ladder laying around that you can climb?
He said 'Ukranians', not 'eastern Ukranians', dumb ass!
Any more comments on my 'southern heritage', dumb shit?
On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 18:55:26 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 13:59:16 -0400, John H <jherring@cox.net> wrote:
On Mon, 14 Mar 2022 02:12:48 -0400, gfretwell@aol.com wrote:
Especially the Ukrainians who become Putins vassels, eh?
Those people were polled and over 70% said they wanted to be more >>>>aligned to the Russians. They are Russian Orthodox, speak Russian and >>>>have a cultural connection with Russia. Why is that any of our >>>>business?
If we don't watch what we do, this could be WWIII and that won't be >>>>good for anyone. It will be nuclear.
I would surely like to see that poll.
This poll, for which I have a link, would tend to contradict your >>>statement:
https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/02/18/ukrainians-support-for-joining-nato-hits-record-high-poll-a76442
You are confusing Western, catholic Ukraine with Eastern Russian
Orthodox Ukraine. I have no doubt the Western Ukrainians have no
interest in being associated with Russia. The East really just wants
to be independent of Kiev and that is all Putin asked for.
There have been a few polls with mixed results but it is clear the
Donbass want to secede from Kiev. >>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_Donbas_status_referendums
2014 poll
"Do you support the declaration of state independence of the Luhansk >>People's Republic?"?
Yes 96.2%
No 3.8%
"Are you for maintaining your territorial community within Ukraine and >>reunification with the Dnipropetrovsk Oblast"? (unifying The Donbass)
Yes 69.1%
No Against reunification and against separatism 27.2%
No against separatism 3.7%
I'm not confusing anyone. You didn't specify 'Luhansk People's
Republic' nor the 'Dnipropetrovsk Oblast'.
And, I guess it depends on which poll you prefer. From your link:
"According to a survey conducted by Pew Research Centre from 5–23
April, 18% of eastern Ukrainians were in favour of secession, while
70% wished to remain part of a united Ukraine.[20]."
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