This is bicycles.tech and yet if I ask a question about something, very often the response is "you must be stupid if you don't know that".problem I was having HE never offered one bit of advice that there was a screw for bracing the front derailleur that could be causing the problem. So he went from knowing nothing about it himself to I should have known everything about it.
This is normally from people that don't even know how to hold a wrench - like Slocomb or Flunky. Never once have they had an answer and only display absolute ignorance.
I have been surprised by Lou and Andrew who are knowledgeable often doing the same thing with Lou giving absolutely stupid answers like RTFM! (read the -- manual) This despite the fact that he has never read the manual. When I was describing the
Andrew who normally has good advice, had nothing to say which shouldn't have been surprising since I doubt that he has built up a Di2 rig himself to see the possible problems.
So, if you don't have any accurate advice to offer, either say nothing or say so. So far I have watched Mark Cleary offered total BS advice on several things and he has also been left to sort them out himself.
On 10/3/2023 9:50 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:problem I was having HE never offered one bit of advice that there was a screw for bracing the front derailleur that could be causing the problem. So he went from knowing nothing about it himself to I should have known everything about it.
This is bicycles.tech and yet if I ask a question about something, very often the response is "you must be stupid if you don't know that".
This is normally from people that don't even know how to hold a wrench - like Slocomb or Flunky. Never once have they had an answer and only display absolute ignorance.
I have been surprised by Lou and Andrew who are knowledgeable often doing the same thing with Lou giving absolutely stupid answers like RTFM! (read the -- manual) This despite the fact that he has never read the manual. When I was describing the
The one's that OTHER articles said did not work properly as well as my complaints? How much intelligence does it take to figure out that a 350 cm long Y cable will not run from a bar end terminal to the other end of a 40 cm bar when there are otherAndrew who normally has good advice, had nothing to say which shouldn't have been surprising since I doubt that he has built up a Di2 rig himself to see the possible problems.
So, if you don't have any accurate advice to offer, either say nothing or say so. So far I have watched Mark Cleary offered total BS advice on several things and he has also been left to sort them out himself.I linked the drawings and directions for system layout.
Shimano sites are chock full of useful resources.
--
Andrew Muzi
a...@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 8:08:43 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:problem I was having HE never offered one bit of advice that there was a screw for bracing the front derailleur that could be causing the problem. So he went from knowing nothing about it himself to I should have known everything about it.
On 10/3/2023 9:50 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
This is bicycles.tech and yet if I ask a question about something, very often the response is "you must be stupid if you don't know that".
This is normally from people that don't even know how to hold a wrench - like Slocomb or Flunky. Never once have they had an answer and only display absolute ignorance.
I have been surprised by Lou and Andrew who are knowledgeable often doing the same thing with Lou giving absolutely stupid answers like RTFM! (read the -- manual) This despite the fact that he has never read the manual. When I was describing the
things in the way like brake cables and such?Andrew who normally has good advice, had nothing to say which shouldn't have been surprising since I doubt that he has built up a Di2 rig himself to see the possible problems.
The one's that OTHER articles said did not work properly as well as my complaints? How much intelligence does it take to figure out that a 350 cm long Y cable will not run from a bar end terminal to the other end of a 40 cm bar when there are otherSo, if you don't have any accurate advice to offer, either say nothing or say so. So far I have watched Mark Cleary offered total BS advice on several things and he has also been left to sort them out himself.I linked the drawings and directions for system layout.
Shimano sites are chock full of useful resources.
--
Andrew Muzi
a...@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 8:08:43 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:problem I was having HE never offered one bit of advice that there was a screw for bracing the front derailleur that could be causing the problem. So he went from knowing nothing about it himself to I should have known everything about it.
On 10/3/2023 9:50 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
This is bicycles.tech and yet if I ask a question about something, very often the response is "you must be stupid if you don't know that".
This is normally from people that don't even know how to hold a wrench - like Slocomb or Flunky. Never once have they had an answer and only display absolute ignorance.
I have been surprised by Lou and Andrew who are knowledgeable often doing the same thing with Lou giving absolutely stupid answers like RTFM! (read the -- manual) This despite the fact that he has never read the manual. When I was describing the
I linked the drawings and directions for system layout.
Andrew who normally has good advice, had nothing to say which shouldn't have been surprising since I doubt that he has built up a Di2 rig himself to see the possible problems.
So, if you don't have any accurate advice to offer, either say nothing or say so. So far I have watched Mark Cleary offered total BS advice on several things and he has also been left to sort them out himself.
Shimano sites are chock full of useful resources.
The one's that OTHER articles said did not work properly as well as my complaints? How much intelligence does it take to figure out that a 350 cm long Y cable will not run from a bar end terminal to the other end of a 40 cm bar when there are otherthings in the way like brake cables and such? Telling me that Shimano engineers know what they're doing when they took several years to get the Di2 correct and spent 11 years with a known bad construction technique on the upper end cranks should be a
On 10/3/2023 10:26 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:problem I was having HE never offered one bit of advice that there was a screw for bracing the front derailleur that could be causing the problem. So he went from knowing nothing about it himself to I should have known everything about it.
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 8:08:43 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/3/2023 9:50 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
This is bicycles.tech and yet if I ask a question about something, very often the response is "you must be stupid if you don't know that".
This is normally from people that don't even know how to hold a wrench - like Slocomb or Flunky. Never once have they had an answer and only display absolute ignorance.
I have been surprised by Lou and Andrew who are knowledgeable often doing the same thing with Lou giving absolutely stupid answers like RTFM! (read the -- manual) This despite the fact that he has never read the manual. When I was describing the
things in the way like brake cables and such? Telling me that Shimano engineers know what they're doing when they took several years to get the Di2 correct and spent 11 years with a known bad construction technique on the upper end cranks should be aThe one's that OTHER articles said did not work properly as well as my complaints? How much intelligence does it take to figure out that a 350 cm long Y cable will not run from a bar end terminal to the other end of a 40 cm bar when there are otherI linked the drawings and directions for system layout.
Andrew who normally has good advice, had nothing to say which shouldn't have been surprising since I doubt that he has built up a Di2 rig himself to see the possible problems.
So, if you don't have any accurate advice to offer, either say nothing or say so. So far I have watched Mark Cleary offered total BS advice on several things and he has also been left to sort them out himself.
Shimano sites are chock full of useful resources.
Which proves the adage that assholes are like opinions;
everyone has one.
--
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 5:26:49 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:problem I was having HE never offered one bit of advice that there was a screw for bracing the front derailleur that could be causing the problem. So he went from knowing nothing about it himself to I should have known everything about it.
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 8:08:43 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/3/2023 9:50 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
This is bicycles.tech and yet if I ask a question about something, very often the response is "you must be stupid if you don't know that".
This is normally from people that don't even know how to hold a wrench - like Slocomb or Flunky. Never once have they had an answer and only display absolute ignorance.
I have been surprised by Lou and Andrew who are knowledgeable often doing the same thing with Lou giving absolutely stupid answers like RTFM! (read the -- manual) This despite the fact that he has never read the manual. When I was describing the
things in the way like brake cables and such?Andrew who normally has good advice, had nothing to say which shouldn't have been surprising since I doubt that he has built up a Di2 rig himself to see the possible problems.
The one's that OTHER articles said did not work properly as well as my complaints? How much intelligence does it take to figure out that a 350 cm long Y cable will not run from a bar end terminal to the other end of a 40 cm bar when there are otherSo, if you don't have any accurate advice to offer, either say nothing or say so. So far I have watched Mark Cleary offered total BS advice on several things and he has also been left to sort them out himself.I linked the drawings and directions for system layout.
Shimano sites are chock full of useful resources.
--
Andrew Muzi
a...@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
The 350 mm end of the Y cable doesn't have to run from the bar end terminal to the other end of the handlebar you stubborn old fool. It is not designed for that. Of course I didn't know that that screw was the cause because you said that the FD mountwas riveted crocket on the seat tube and that was probably why the frame was so cheap. Next time post photo's because we can't trust your evaluation of a problem. You can't stand even in the shadow of Andrew concerning knowledge of building bikes. You
LouI started saying out saying that the front derailleur was twisting off center on the bracket. What I'm saying is that before you say RTFM at least do so yourself. This was hardly an obvious problem and you have no more chance of detecting it yourself
On 10/3/2023 10:26 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:problem I was having HE never offered one bit of advice that there was a screw for bracing the front derailleur that could be causing the problem. So he went from knowing nothing about it himself to I should have known everything about it.
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 8:08:43 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/3/2023 9:50 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
This is bicycles.tech and yet if I ask a question about something, very often the response is "you must be stupid if you don't know that".
This is normally from people that don't even know how to hold a wrench - like Slocomb or Flunky. Never once have they had an answer and only display absolute ignorance.
I have been surprised by Lou and Andrew who are knowledgeable often doing the same thing with Lou giving absolutely stupid answers like RTFM! (read the -- manual) This despite the fact that he has never read the manual. When I was describing the
things in the way like brake cables and such? Telling me that Shimano engineers know what they're doing when they took several years to get the Di2 correct and spent 11 years with a known bad construction technique on the upper end cranks should be aThe one's that OTHER articles said did not work properly as well as my complaints? How much intelligence does it take to figure out that a 350 cm long Y cable will not run from a bar end terminal to the other end of a 40 cm bar when there are otherI linked the drawings and directions for system layout.
Andrew who normally has good advice, had nothing to say which shouldn't have been surprising since I doubt that he has built up a Di2 rig himself to see the possible problems.
So, if you don't have any accurate advice to offer, either say nothing or say so. So far I have watched Mark Cleary offered total BS advice on several things and he has also been left to sort them out himself.
Shimano sites are chock full of useful resources.
Which proves the adage that assholes are like opinions;
everyone has one.
--
Andrew Muzi
a...@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 8:57:13 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:the problem I was having HE never offered one bit of advice that there was a screw for bracing the front derailleur that could be causing the problem. So he went from knowing nothing about it himself to I should have known everything about it.
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 5:26:49 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 8:08:43 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/3/2023 9:50 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
This is bicycles.tech and yet if I ask a question about something, very often the response is "you must be stupid if you don't know that".
This is normally from people that don't even know how to hold a wrench - like Slocomb or Flunky. Never once have they had an answer and only display absolute ignorance.
I have been surprised by Lou and Andrew who are knowledgeable often doing the same thing with Lou giving absolutely stupid answers like RTFM! (read the -- manual) This despite the fact that he has never read the manual. When I was describing
things in the way like brake cables and such?Andrew who normally has good advice, had nothing to say which shouldn't have been surprising since I doubt that he has built up a Di2 rig himself to see the possible problems.
The one's that OTHER articles said did not work properly as well as my complaints? How much intelligence does it take to figure out that a 350 cm long Y cable will not run from a bar end terminal to the other end of a 40 cm bar when there are otherSo, if you don't have any accurate advice to offer, either say nothing or say so. So far I have watched Mark Cleary offered total BS advice on several things and he has also been left to sort them out himself.I linked the drawings and directions for system layout.
Shimano sites are chock full of useful resources.
--
Andrew Muzi
a...@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
was riveted crocket on the seat tube and that was probably why the frame was so cheap. Next time post photo's because we can't trust your evaluation of a problem. You can't stand even in the shadow of Andrew concerning knowledge of building bikes. YouThe 350 mm end of the Y cable doesn't have to run from the bar end terminal to the other end of the handlebar you stubborn old fool. It is not designed for that. Of course I didn't know that that screw was the cause because you said that the FD mount
unless you'd had such a problem previously.LouI started saying out saying that the front derailleur was twisting off center on the bracket. What I'm saying is that before you say RTFM at least do so yourself. This was hardly an obvious problem and you have no more chance of detecting it yourself
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 8:57:13 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:problem I was having HE never offered one bit of advice that there was a screw for bracing the front derailleur that could be causing the problem. So he went from knowing nothing about it himself to I should have known everything about it.
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 5:26:49 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 8:08:43 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/3/2023 9:50 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
This is bicycles.tech and yet if I ask a question about something, very often the response is "you must be stupid if you don't know that".
This is normally from people that don't even know how to hold a wrench - like Slocomb or Flunky. Never once have they had an answer and only display absolute ignorance.
I have been surprised by Lou and Andrew who are knowledgeable often doing the same thing with Lou giving absolutely stupid answers like RTFM! (read the -- manual) This despite the fact that he has never read the manual. When I was describing the
things in the way like brake cables and such?The one's that OTHER articles said did not work properly as well as my complaints? How much intelligence does it take to figure out that a 350 cm long Y cable will not run from a bar end terminal to the other end of a 40 cm bar when there are otherI linked the drawings and directions for system layout.
Andrew who normally has good advice, had nothing to say which shouldn't have been surprising since I doubt that he has built up a Di2 rig himself to see the possible problems.
So, if you don't have any accurate advice to offer, either say nothing or say so. So far I have watched Mark Cleary offered total BS advice on several things and he has also been left to sort them out himself.
Shimano sites are chock full of useful resources.
--
Andrew Muzi
a...@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
was riveted crocket on the seat tube and that was probably why the frame was so cheap. Next time post photo's because we can't trust your evaluation of a problem. You can't stand even in the shadow of Andrew concerning knowledge of building bikes. YouThe 350 mm end of the Y cable doesn't have to run from the bar end terminal to the other end of the handlebar you stubborn old fool. It is not designed for that. Of course I didn't know that that screw was the cause because you said that the FD mount
unless you'd had such a problem previously. As I said, a very well rounded mechanic had to look at it while trying to connect it to the adapter before realizing that it was the silly bracing screw. There was no way of seeing behind the derailleur andI started saying out saying that the front derailleur was twisting off center on the bracket. What I'm saying is that before you say RTFM at least do so yourself. This was hardly an obvious problem and you have no more chance of detecting it yourself
Lou
On 10/3/2023 4:25 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:problem I was having HE never offered one bit of advice that there was a screw for bracing the front derailleur that could be causing the problem. So he went from knowing nothing about it himself to I should have known everything about it.
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 8:57:13 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 5:26:49 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 8:08:43 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/3/2023 9:50 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
This is bicycles.tech and yet if I ask a question about something, very often the response is "you must be stupid if you don't know that".
This is normally from people that don't even know how to hold a wrench - like Slocomb or Flunky. Never once have they had an answer and only display absolute ignorance.
I have been surprised by Lou and Andrew who are knowledgeable often doing the same thing with Lou giving absolutely stupid answers like RTFM! (read the -- manual) This despite the fact that he has never read the manual. When I was describing the
things in the way like brake cables and such?The one's that OTHER articles said did not work properly as well as my complaints? How much intelligence does it take to figure out that a 350 cm long Y cable will not run from a bar end terminal to the other end of a 40 cm bar when there are otherI linked the drawings and directions for system layout.
Andrew who normally has good advice, had nothing to say which shouldn't have been surprising since I doubt that he has built up a Di2 rig himself to see the possible problems.
So, if you don't have any accurate advice to offer, either say nothing or say so. So far I have watched Mark Cleary offered total BS advice on several things and he has also been left to sort them out himself.
Shimano sites are chock full of useful resources.
--
Andrew Muzi
a...@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
mount was riveted crocket on the seat tube and that was probably why the frame was so cheap. Next time post photo's because we can't trust your evaluation of a problem. You can't stand even in the shadow of Andrew concerning knowledge of building bikes.The 350 mm end of the Y cable doesn't have to run from the bar end terminal to the other end of the handlebar you stubborn old fool. It is not designed for that. Of course I didn't know that that screw was the cause because you said that the FD
unless you'd had such a problem previously. As I said, a very well rounded mechanic had to look at it while trying to connect it to the adapter before realizing that it was the silly bracing screw. There was no way of seeing behind the derailleur andI started saying out saying that the front derailleur was twisting off center on the bracket. What I'm saying is that before you say RTFM at least do so yourself. This was hardly an obvious problem and you have no more chance of detecting it yourself
Lou
-snip unrelated-I get "Page not Found" on that citation.
https://dassets.shimano.com/content/dam/global/cg1SHICCycling/final/ev/ev/EV-FD-R8150-4863.pd
--
Andrew Muzi
a...@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 11:25:13 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:the problem I was having HE never offered one bit of advice that there was a screw for bracing the front derailleur that could be causing the problem. So he went from knowing nothing about it himself to I should have known everything about it.
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 8:57:13 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 5:26:49 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 8:08:43 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/3/2023 9:50 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
This is bicycles.tech and yet if I ask a question about something, very often the response is "you must be stupid if you don't know that".
This is normally from people that don't even know how to hold a wrench - like Slocomb or Flunky. Never once have they had an answer and only display absolute ignorance.
I have been surprised by Lou and Andrew who are knowledgeable often doing the same thing with Lou giving absolutely stupid answers like RTFM! (read the -- manual) This despite the fact that he has never read the manual. When I was describing
other things in the way like brake cables and such?Andrew who normally has good advice, had nothing to say which shouldn't have been surprising since I doubt that he has built up a Di2 rig himself to see the possible problems.
The one's that OTHER articles said did not work properly as well as my complaints? How much intelligence does it take to figure out that a 350 cm long Y cable will not run from a bar end terminal to the other end of a 40 cm bar when there areSo, if you don't have any accurate advice to offer, either say nothing or say so. So far I have watched Mark Cleary offered total BS advice on several things and he has also been left to sort them out himself.I linked the drawings and directions for system layout.
Shimano sites are chock full of useful resources.
--
Andrew Muzi
a...@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
mount was riveted crocket on the seat tube and that was probably why the frame was so cheap. Next time post photo's because we can't trust your evaluation of a problem. You can't stand even in the shadow of Andrew concerning knowledge of building bikes.The 350 mm end of the Y cable doesn't have to run from the bar end terminal to the other end of the handlebar you stubborn old fool. It is not designed for that. Of course I didn't know that that screw was the cause because you said that the FD
unless you'd had such a problem previously.LouI started saying out saying that the front derailleur was twisting off center on the bracket. What I'm saying is that before you say RTFM at least do so yourself. This was hardly an obvious problem and you have no more chance of detecting it yourself
That screw is mentioned in the mounting instruction of the front derailleur. You didn’t read that obviously. I did and I thought WTF and looked."Mentioned"? In what regard? I built four or five Di2 bikes and started out reading all of the manuals that came with the components and I didn't have any trouble with any of them and I certainly don't remember a mention of that screw. I should note that
Lou
On 10/3/2023 10:26 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:problem I was having HE never offered one bit of advice that there was a screw for bracing the front derailleur that could be causing the problem. So he went from knowing nothing about it himself to I should have known everything about it.
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 8:08:43?AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/3/2023 9:50 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
This is bicycles.tech and yet if I ask a question about something, very often the response is "you must be stupid if you don't know that".
This is normally from people that don't even know how to hold a wrench - like Slocomb or Flunky. Never once have they had an answer and only display absolute ignorance.
I have been surprised by Lou and Andrew who are knowledgeable often doing the same thing with Lou giving absolutely stupid answers like RTFM! (read the -- manual) This despite the fact that he has never read the manual. When I was describing the
I linked the drawings and directions for system layout.
Andrew who normally has good advice, had nothing to say which shouldn't have been surprising since I doubt that he has built up a Di2 rig himself to see the possible problems.
So, if you don't have any accurate advice to offer, either say nothing or say so. So far I have watched Mark Cleary offered total BS advice on several things and he has also been left to sort them out himself.
Shimano sites are chock full of useful resources.
things in the way like brake cables and such? Telling me that Shimano engineers know what they're doing when they took several years to get the Di2 correct and spent 11 years with a known bad construction technique on the upper end cranks should be aThe one's that OTHER articles said did not work properly as well as my complaints? How much intelligence does it take to figure out that a 350 cm long Y cable will not run from a bar end terminal to the other end of a 40 cm bar when there are other
Which proves the adage that assholes are like opinions;
everyone has one.
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 3:18:48 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:problem I was having HE never offered one bit of advice that there was a screw for bracing the front derailleur that could be causing the problem. So he went from knowing nothing about it himself to I should have known everything about it.
On 10/3/2023 4:25 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 8:57:13 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 5:26:49 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 8:08:43 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/3/2023 9:50 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
This is bicycles.tech and yet if I ask a question about something, very often the response is "you must be stupid if you don't know that".
This is normally from people that don't even know how to hold a wrench - like Slocomb or Flunky. Never once have they had an answer and only display absolute ignorance.
I have been surprised by Lou and Andrew who are knowledgeable often doing the same thing with Lou giving absolutely stupid answers like RTFM! (read the -- manual) This despite the fact that he has never read the manual. When I was describing the
things in the way like brake cables and such?The one's that OTHER articles said did not work properly as well as my complaints? How much intelligence does it take to figure out that a 350 cm long Y cable will not run from a bar end terminal to the other end of a 40 cm bar when there are otherI linked the drawings and directions for system layout.
Andrew who normally has good advice, had nothing to say which shouldn't have been surprising since I doubt that he has built up a Di2 rig himself to see the possible problems.
So, if you don't have any accurate advice to offer, either say nothing or say so. So far I have watched Mark Cleary offered total BS advice on several things and he has also been left to sort them out himself.
Shimano sites are chock full of useful resources.
--
Andrew Muzi
a...@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
mount was riveted crocket on the seat tube and that was probably why the frame was so cheap. Next time post photo's because we can't trust your evaluation of a problem. You can't stand even in the shadow of Andrew concerning knowledge of building bikes.The 350 mm end of the Y cable doesn't have to run from the bar end terminal to the other end of the handlebar you stubborn old fool. It is not designed for that. Of course I didn't know that that screw was the cause because you said that the FD
unless you'd had such a problem previously. As I said, a very well rounded mechanic had to look at it while trying to connect it to the adapter before realizing that it was the silly bracing screw. There was no way of seeing behind the derailleur andI started saying out saying that the front derailleur was twisting off center on the bracket. What I'm saying is that before you say RTFM at least do so yourself. This was hardly an obvious problem and you have no more chance of detecting it yourself
Lou
-snip unrelated-I get "Page not Found" on that citation.
https://dassets.shimano.com/content/dam/global/cg1SHICCycling/final/ev/ev/EV-FD-R8150-4863.pd
On 10/3/2023 5:23 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:the problem I was having HE never offered one bit of advice that there was a screw for bracing the front derailleur that could be causing the problem. So he went from knowing nothing about it himself to I should have known everything about it.
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 3:18:48 PM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/3/2023 4:25 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 8:57:13 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote: >>>> On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 5:26:49 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote: >>>>> On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 8:08:43 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/3/2023 9:50 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
This is bicycles.tech and yet if I ask a question about something, very often the response is "you must be stupid if you don't know that".
This is normally from people that don't even know how to hold a wrench - like Slocomb or Flunky. Never once have they had an answer and only display absolute ignorance.
I have been surprised by Lou and Andrew who are knowledgeable often doing the same thing with Lou giving absolutely stupid answers like RTFM! (read the -- manual) This despite the fact that he has never read the manual. When I was describing
other things in the way like brake cables and such?The one's that OTHER articles said did not work properly as well as my complaints? How much intelligence does it take to figure out that a 350 cm long Y cable will not run from a bar end terminal to the other end of a 40 cm bar when there areI linked the drawings and directions for system layout.
Andrew who normally has good advice, had nothing to say which shouldn't have been surprising since I doubt that he has built up a Di2 rig himself to see the possible problems.
So, if you don't have any accurate advice to offer, either say nothing or say so. So far I have watched Mark Cleary offered total BS advice on several things and he has also been left to sort them out himself.
Shimano sites are chock full of useful resources.
--
Andrew Muzi
a...@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
mount was riveted crocket on the seat tube and that was probably why the frame was so cheap. Next time post photo's because we can't trust your evaluation of a problem. You can't stand even in the shadow of Andrew concerning knowledge of building bikes.The 350 mm end of the Y cable doesn't have to run from the bar end terminal to the other end of the handlebar you stubborn old fool. It is not designed for that. Of course I didn't know that that screw was the cause because you said that the FD
yourself unless you'd had such a problem previously. As I said, a very well rounded mechanic had to look at it while trying to connect it to the adapter before realizing that it was the silly bracing screw. There was no way of seeing behind theI started saying out saying that the front derailleur was twisting off center on the bracket. What I'm saying is that before you say RTFM at least do so yourself. This was hardly an obvious problem and you have no more chance of detecting it
Lou
oops; truncated 'pdf' to 'pd'-snip unrelated-I get "Page not Found" on that citation.
https://dassets.shimano.com/content/dam/global/cg1SHICCycling/final/ev/ev/EV-FD-R8150-4863.pd
try this: https://dassets.shimano.com/content/dam/global/cg1SHICCycling/final/ev/ev/EV-FD-R8150-4863.pdf
--
Andrew Muzi
a...@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 2:51:21 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:describing the problem I was having HE never offered one bit of advice that there was a screw for bracing the front derailleur that could be causing the problem. So he went from knowing nothing about it himself to I should have known everything about it.
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 11:25:13 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 8:57:13 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 5:26:49 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 8:08:43 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/3/2023 9:50 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
This is bicycles.tech and yet if I ask a question about something, very often the response is "you must be stupid if you don't know that".
This is normally from people that don't even know how to hold a wrench - like Slocomb or Flunky. Never once have they had an answer and only display absolute ignorance.
I have been surprised by Lou and Andrew who are knowledgeable often doing the same thing with Lou giving absolutely stupid answers like RTFM! (read the -- manual) This despite the fact that he has never read the manual. When I was
other things in the way like brake cables and such?Andrew who normally has good advice, had nothing to say which shouldn't have been surprising since I doubt that he has built up a Di2 rig himself to see the possible problems.
The one's that OTHER articles said did not work properly as well as my complaints? How much intelligence does it take to figure out that a 350 cm long Y cable will not run from a bar end terminal to the other end of a 40 cm bar when there areSo, if you don't have any accurate advice to offer, either say nothing or say so. So far I have watched Mark Cleary offered total BS advice on several things and he has also been left to sort them out himself.I linked the drawings and directions for system layout.
Shimano sites are chock full of useful resources.
--
Andrew Muzi
a...@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
mount was riveted crocket on the seat tube and that was probably why the frame was so cheap. Next time post photo's because we can't trust your evaluation of a problem. You can't stand even in the shadow of Andrew concerning knowledge of building bikes.The 350 mm end of the Y cable doesn't have to run from the bar end terminal to the other end of the handlebar you stubborn old fool. It is not designed for that. Of course I didn't know that that screw was the cause because you said that the FD
yourself unless you'd had such a problem previously.LouI started saying out saying that the front derailleur was twisting off center on the bracket. What I'm saying is that before you say RTFM at least do so yourself. This was hardly an obvious problem and you have no more chance of detecting it
that the Colnagos had a nice clear braze-on and that screw even out all the way probably wouldn't have interfered with anything. And two of them were external aluminum bikes that also didn't have the sort of blocked braze-on that the Ridley did.That screw is mentioned in the mounting instruction of the front derailleur. You didn’t read that obviously. I did and I thought WTF and looked.
Lou"Mentioned"? In what regard? I built four or five Di2 bikes and started out reading all of the manuals that came with the components and I didn't have any trouble with any of them and I certainly don't remember a mention of that screw. I should note
Only the Ridley had a cast aluminum braze-on with a large platform in the way of that brace.
On Wednesday, October 4, 2023 at 12:31:10 AM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:describing the problem I was having HE never offered one bit of advice that there was a screw for bracing the front derailleur that could be causing the problem. So he went from knowing nothing about it himself to I should have known everything about it.
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 2:51:21 PM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 11:25:13 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 8:57:13 AM UTC-7, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 5:26:49 PM UTC+2, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 8:08:43 AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/3/2023 9:50 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
This is bicycles.tech and yet if I ask a question about something, very often the response is "you must be stupid if you don't know that".
This is normally from people that don't even know how to hold a wrench - like Slocomb or Flunky. Never once have they had an answer and only display absolute ignorance.
I have been surprised by Lou and Andrew who are knowledgeable often doing the same thing with Lou giving absolutely stupid answers like RTFM! (read the -- manual) This despite the fact that he has never read the manual. When I was
other things in the way like brake cables and such?Andrew who normally has good advice, had nothing to say which shouldn't have been surprising since I doubt that he has built up a Di2 rig himself to see the possible problems.
The one's that OTHER articles said did not work properly as well as my complaints? How much intelligence does it take to figure out that a 350 cm long Y cable will not run from a bar end terminal to the other end of a 40 cm bar when there areSo, if you don't have any accurate advice to offer, either say nothing or say so. So far I have watched Mark Cleary offered total BS advice on several things and he has also been left to sort them out himself.I linked the drawings and directions for system layout.
Shimano sites are chock full of useful resources.
--
Andrew Muzi
a...@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
mount was riveted crocket on the seat tube and that was probably why the frame was so cheap. Next time post photo's because we can't trust your evaluation of a problem. You can't stand even in the shadow of Andrew concerning knowledge of building bikes.The 350 mm end of the Y cable doesn't have to run from the bar end terminal to the other end of the handlebar you stubborn old fool. It is not designed for that. Of course I didn't know that that screw was the cause because you said that the FD
yourself unless you'd had such a problem previously.LouI started saying out saying that the front derailleur was twisting off center on the bracket. What I'm saying is that before you say RTFM at least do so yourself. This was hardly an obvious problem and you have no more chance of detecting it
that the Colnagos had a nice clear braze-on and that screw even out all the way probably wouldn't have interfered with anything. And two of them were external aluminum bikes that also didn't have the sort of blocked braze-on that the Ridley did.That screw is mentioned in the mounting instruction of the front derailleur. You didn’t read that obviously. I did and I thought WTF and looked.
Lou"Mentioned"? In what regard? I built four or five Di2 bikes and started out reading all of the manuals that came with the components and I didn't have any trouble with any of them and I certainly don't remember a mention of that screw. I should note
Only the Ridley had a cast aluminum braze-on with a large platform in the way of that brace.In addition to Andrews link to a Ultegra FD, here is a clip out of the dealers manual from my GRX Di2 group I installed:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ZBpHPAy52Kk7twMj6
You're welcome.
Lou
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 9:01:51?AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:problem I was having HE never offered one bit of advice that there was a screw for bracing the front derailleur that could be causing the problem. So he went from knowing nothing about it himself to I should have known everything about it.
On 10/3/2023 10:26 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 8:08:43?AM UTC-7, AMuzi wrote:
On 10/3/2023 9:50 AM, Tom Kunich wrote:
This is bicycles.tech and yet if I ask a question about something, very often the response is "you must be stupid if you don't know that".
This is normally from people that don't even know how to hold a wrench - like Slocomb or Flunky. Never once have they had an answer and only display absolute ignorance.
I have been surprised by Lou and Andrew who are knowledgeable often doing the same thing with Lou giving absolutely stupid answers like RTFM! (read the -- manual) This despite the fact that he has never read the manual. When I was describing the
things in the way like brake cables and such? Telling me that Shimano engineers know what they're doing when they took several years to get the Di2 correct and spent 11 years with a known bad construction technique on the upper end cranks should be aThe one's that OTHER articles said did not work properly as well as my complaints? How much intelligence does it take to figure out that a 350 cm long Y cable will not run from a bar end terminal to the other end of a 40 cm bar when there are otherI linked the drawings and directions for system layout.
Andrew who normally has good advice, had nothing to say which shouldn't have been surprising since I doubt that he has built up a Di2 rig himself to see the possible problems.
So, if you don't have any accurate advice to offer, either say nothing or say so. So far I have watched Mark Cleary offered total BS advice on several things and he has also been left to sort them out himself.
Shimano sites are chock full of useful resources.
the BB90 was an entirely inappropriate choice for a Di2 ONLY bike which the Helium is. Until you are actually faced with the problems it isn't an opinion - it is something you don't personally have any experience with and so cannot contradict.Which proves the adage that assholes are like opinions;
everyone has one.
--
Andrew Muzi
a...@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
Well Andrew, I can on suggest that you actually try using a Y wire connector and then get back to me how well they work. I THINK that you could probably get them to work using a round bar and stem and a stem mounted controller. And as I said before -
I built four or five Di2 bikes and ...
I don't think that I have ever owned a bike that would go in a perfectly straight line without at least a little wobble back and forth of the forks.
The Moser and the Ridley are both good though the Ridley goes in a perfectly straight line on smooth road. None of my other bikes do that.
On Tuesday, October 3, 2023 at 6:49:21 PM UTC-4, Tom Kunich wrote:one here has ever had a problem with it either that wasn't attibutable to some sort of defect in the fork or design.
The Moser and the Ridley are both good though the Ridley goes in a perfectly straight line on smooth road. None of my other bikes do that.
none of his other bikes go in a straight line on a smooth road......Let's ponder that for a minute and think if any one of of us have ever had that problem.......
I did once, a cheap carbon crit bike - A 'Tsunami' - that I couldn't ride with no hands without a severe front end wobble. In the last 40 years of racing (probably pushing 50 bikes in that time) I've never had another instance of that. I'm guessing no
Feel free to post any other anecdotes of a properly built bike not being able to go in a straight line on a smooth road.
On Wednesday, December 20, 2023 at 10:28:47?AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:he's at and isn't building any more.
On Wednesday, December 20, 2023 at 7:08:15?PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, December 18, 2023 at 11:42:27?AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
I came to this group a long time ago when people that were building their own bikes were looking for advice. Now it looks like no one save for me builds their own bikes. Except for Andrew of course and Andre but it looks like he is now happy where
retirement. Although my retirement would probably be better if my strength wasn't waning so rapidly. But winter is here and that is bike building season and I'm returning not only to steel but to 10 speeds as well. I'll no longer be shifting all day to
I find building bikes almost as enjoyable as riding them. Lou is correct that they are not a particularly good investment but so what? I have money to burn, as it were. I worked very hard my whole life in order to do anything I like in my
sure that the lower ratios are any better. While it is easier to climb in the 32 or 34, it takes a lot longer to get to the top so you're working just as much. You just aren't straining as much.
But if I crawl around the barrier on Redwood Rd and do the old climb, it is just as easy as I remember it though I am slower. But all of this might be because running the old Campagnolo 10 speed you had a limit of a 28 cog. I'm not in the least
farts are dropping me on the flats, they will no longer even attempt the climbs I do and they most certainly won't try the miles. This means that now 90% of my miles are alone. But no matter since most if them are on seldom used roads though they are
Were I going to Moraga, the hardest climbs are right near the top of Pinehurst right at the top and Valley road that leads into Moraga. The Pinehurst climb is only a couple of hundred feet but the Valley climb is a quarter mile. While the old
internal routing. It took two evenings, all went well without problems. Nowadays however most people buy complete bikes. Building your own wheels is an art that has gone out of fashion a long time ago.My last build for a friend was a couple of months ago. Acquire all parts, before building check if all the part are in and correct. If that is the case the actual build is just one evening. Last build was a bike with hydraulic disk brakes withI would have expected that on a bicycles.tech group that there would be people that build up their own bikes but aside from Andrew apparently not.
Time to work on a bike. I would like it to be assembling the Basso but that will start tomorrow.
Good wheels are so available and so cheap that it is foolish to build you own unless you have an oddball like Catrike.
Lou
On Monday, December 18, 2023 at 11:42:27?AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:s at and isn't building any more.
I came to this group a long time ago when people that were building their own bikes were looking for advice. Now it looks like no one save for me builds their own bikes. Except for Andrew of course and Andre but it looks like he is now happy where he'
Although my retirement would probably be better if my strength wasn't waning so rapidly. But winter is here and that is bike building season and I'm returning not only to steel but to 10 speeds as well. I'll no longer be shifting all day to find the gear
I find building bikes almost as enjoyable as riding them. Lou is correct that they are not a particularly good investment but so what? I have money to burn, as it were. I worked very hard my whole life in order to do anything I like in my retirement.
that the lower ratios are any better. While it is easier to climb in the 32 or 34, it takes a lot longer to get to the top so you're working just as much. You just aren't straining as much.
But if I crawl around the barrier on Redwood Rd and do the old climb, it is just as easy as I remember it though I am slower. But all of this might be because running the old Campagnolo 10 speed you had a limit of a 28 cog. I'm not in the least sure
are dropping me on the flats, they will no longer even attempt the climbs I do and they most certainly won't try the miles. This means that now 90% of my miles are alone. But no matter since most if them are on seldom used roads though they are used a
Were I going to Moraga, the hardest climbs are right near the top of Pinehurst right at the top and Valley road that leads into Moraga. The Pinehurst climb is only a couple of hundred feet but the Valley climb is a quarter mile. While the old farts
Time to work on a bike. I would like it to be assembling the Basso but that will start tomorrow.
I would have expected that on a bicycles.tech group that there would be people that build up their own bikes but aside from Andrew apparently not.
On Wed, 20 Dec 2023 10:08:13 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, December 18, 2023 at 11:42:27?AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
I came to this group a long time ago when people that were building
their own bikes were looking for advice. Now it looks like no one save
for me builds their own bikes. Except for Andrew of course and Andre
but it looks like he is now happy where he's at and isn't building any more.
I find building bikes almost as enjoyable as riding them. Lou is
correct that they are not a particularly good investment but so what? I
have money to burn, as it were. I worked very hard my whole life in
order to do anything I like in my retirement. Although my retirement
would probably be better if my strength wasn't waning so rapidly. But
winter is here and that is bike building season and I'm returning not
only to steel but to 10 speeds as well. I'll no longer be shifting all
day to find the gear I want. I am doing Cull Canyon entirely in the 34
ring now and still have to skip gears because all of the one tooth
differences in the higher speed ranges. I am in the big ring all of the
way down of course but there are three spots where there is enough
climbing on the way down to slow me up quite a bit. I can tell that it
isn't my heart because the times I've used my heart rate monitor it has
always stayed in the acceptable range or even a bit better considering the lung damage.
But if I crawl around the barrier on Redwood Rd and do the old climb,
it is just as easy as I remember it though I am slower. But all of this
might be because running the old Campagnolo 10 speed you had a limit of
a 28 cog. I'm not in the least sure that the lower ratios are any
better. While it is easier to climb in the 32 or 34, it takes a lot
longer to get to the top so you're working just as much. You just
aren't straining as much.
Were I going to Moraga, the hardest climbs are right near the top of
Pinehurst right at the top and Valley road that leads into Moraga. The
Pinehurst climb is only a couple of hundred feet but the Valley climb
is a quarter mile. While the old farts are dropping me on the flats,
they will no longer even attempt the climbs I do and they most
certainly won't try the miles. This means that now 90% of my miles are
alone. But no matter since most if them are on seldom used roads though
they are used a lot more than they used to be and a lot more than I would prefer.
Time to work on a bike. I would like it to be assembling the Basso but
that will start tomorrow.
I would have expected that on a bicycles.tech group that there would be
people that build up their own bikes but aside from Andrew apparently not.
It might not be quite the same, but I had to take everything off a
damaged Catrike frame and put it all on the new one. Most of the parts
had already been replaced, anyway. And now I've even built a wheel. I haven't started relacing the two front wheels yet, but I'll be getting
to it before too long.
On Wed, 20 Dec 2023 11:47:15 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunichwhere he's at and isn't building any more.
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, December 20, 2023 at 10:28:47?AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:
On Wednesday, December 20, 2023 at 7:08:15?PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Monday, December 18, 2023 at 11:42:27?AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote:
I came to this group a long time ago when people that were building their own bikes were looking for advice. Now it looks like no one save for me builds their own bikes. Except for Andrew of course and Andre but it looks like he is now happy
retirement. Although my retirement would probably be better if my strength wasn't waning so rapidly. But winter is here and that is bike building season and I'm returning not only to steel but to 10 speeds as well. I'll no longer be shifting all day to
I find building bikes almost as enjoyable as riding them. Lou is correct that they are not a particularly good investment but so what? I have money to burn, as it were. I worked very hard my whole life in order to do anything I like in my
damage.sure that the lower ratios are any better. While it is easier to climb in the 32 or 34, it takes a lot longer to get to the top so you're working just as much. You just aren't straining as much.
But if I crawl around the barrier on Redwood Rd and do the old climb, it is just as easy as I remember it though I am slower. But all of this might be because running the old Campagnolo 10 speed you had a limit of a 28 cog. I'm not in the least
farts are dropping me on the flats, they will no longer even attempt the climbs I do and they most certainly won't try the miles. This means that now 90% of my miles are alone. But no matter since most if them are on seldom used roads though they are
Were I going to Moraga, the hardest climbs are right near the top of Pinehurst right at the top and Valley road that leads into Moraga. The Pinehurst climb is only a couple of hundred feet but the Valley climb is a quarter mile. While the old
internal routing. It took two evenings, all went well without problems. Nowadays however most people buy complete bikes. Building your own wheels is an art that has gone out of fashion a long time ago.My last build for a friend was a couple of months ago. Acquire all parts, before building check if all the part are in and correct. If that is the case the actual build is just one evening. Last build was a bike with hydraulic disk brakes withI would have expected that on a bicycles.tech group that there would be people that build up their own bikes but aside from Andrew apparently not.
Time to work on a bike. I would like it to be assembling the Basso but that will start tomorrow.
Good wheels are so available and so cheap that it is foolish to build you own unless you have an oddball like Catrike.
Lou
I did buy spare wheels, front and back, so I had something to use
while I was rebuilding the old ones. I might be the oddball one lacing wheels, but it was something I needed to teach myself how to do.
On 2023-12-20, Catrike Ryder <Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:where he's at and isn't building any more.
On Wed, 20 Dec 2023 11:47:15 -0800 (PST), Tom Kunich
<cyclintom@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, December 20, 2023 at 10:28:47?AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote: >>>> On Wednesday, December 20, 2023 at 7:08:15?PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote: >>>> > On Monday, December 18, 2023 at 11:42:27?AM UTC-8, Tom Kunich wrote: >>>> > > I came to this group a long time ago when people that were building their own bikes were looking for advice. Now it looks like no one save for me builds their own bikes. Except for Andrew of course and Andre but it looks like he is now happy
retirement. Although my retirement would probably be better if my strength wasn't waning so rapidly. But winter is here and that is bike building season and I'm returning not only to steel but to 10 speeds as well. I'll no longer be shifting all day to
I find building bikes almost as enjoyable as riding them. Lou is correct that they are not a particularly good investment but so what? I have money to burn, as it were. I worked very hard my whole life in order to do anything I like in my
sure that the lower ratios are any better. While it is easier to climb in the 32 or 34, it takes a lot longer to get to the top so you're working just as much. You just aren't straining as much.damage.
But if I crawl around the barrier on Redwood Rd and do the old climb, it is just as easy as I remember it though I am slower. But all of this might be because running the old Campagnolo 10 speed you had a limit of a 28 cog. I'm not in the least
farts are dropping me on the flats, they will no longer even attempt the climbs I do and they most certainly won't try the miles. This means that now 90% of my miles are alone. But no matter since most if them are on seldom used roads though they are
Were I going to Moraga, the hardest climbs are right near the top of Pinehurst right at the top and Valley road that leads into Moraga. The Pinehurst climb is only a couple of hundred feet but the Valley climb is a quarter mile. While the old
internal routing. It took two evenings, all went well without problems. Nowadays however most people buy complete bikes. Building your own wheels is an art that has gone out of fashion a long time ago.My last build for a friend was a couple of months ago. Acquire all parts, before building check if all the part are in and correct. If that is the case the actual build is just one evening. Last build was a bike with hydraulic disk brakes withI would have expected that on a bicycles.tech group that there would be people that build up their own bikes but aside from Andrew apparently not.
Time to work on a bike. I would like it to be assembling the Basso but that will start tomorrow.
Good wheels are so available and so cheap that it is foolish to build you own unless you have an oddball like Catrike.
Lou
I did buy spare wheels, front and back, so I had something to use
while I was rebuilding the old ones. I might be the oddball one lacing
wheels, but it was something I needed to teach myself how to do.
All the wheels on my bikes are homebuilts.
pH
I would have expected that on a bicycles.tech group that there
would be people that build up their own bikes but aside from
Andrew apparently not.
On Thu, 21 Dec 2023 07:22:17 -0500, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com>
wrote:
On Wednesday, December 20, 2023 at 1:08:15?PM UTC-5, Tom Kunich wrote:
I would have expected that on a bicycles.tech group that there
would be people that build up their own bikes but aside from
Andrew apparently not.
Gee, let's recap what happened the last time someone besides tommy
decided to post a message about their latest build.
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/h-RVKnBFnds/m/hKCQ4lNXAQAJ >>"Does that look like the bike of a guy who claimed to be a racer? Or a
guy that is over 5'4" tall? I don't care what size he is or what way he >>rides but misrepresenting himself is bullshit and gets tiresome. Compare >>that to my normal ride"
Let's just set aside the fact that I very clearly stated I set it up for
my wife who does not race, has never raced, and will never race.
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/h-RVKnBFnds/m/OamKR05aAQAJ >>" it has that damned unicrown fork on it that was always a POS."
Let's just set aside that it was actually a Steelman fork (From Brent >>Steelman of Steelman Cycles) - generally considered to be one of the >>higher-end steel forks available, and anyone familiar with the pre-trek
CX bikes made by Bontrager would know Bontrager didn't put POS unicrown >>forks on his bikes - the Steelman fork was OEM on the Bontrager CX.
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/h-RVKnBFnds/m/Pht5ZR3sAQAJ >>" What was with that crap that he was going to "return to racing CX"?
The bike was totally inadequate and physically he doesn't even have the >>proper body type."
Let's just set aside that the bike was marketed by Bontrager (pre-trek)
as a CX racing bike, and professional CX racers run just as wide a >>morphological range as road racers, with 2022 world champion Tom Pidcock
at 5'7" 130#, and current CX world cup leader Eli Iserbyt at 5'5" and
125# on the 'smaller' end of riders.
So tommy, why would anyone want to post anything about building their
own bikes when they see you being such a fucking asshole when someone does?
Granted it is much a matter of semantics but Tom doesn't "build"
bikes, he "assembles" bikes. i.e. gets the parts and puts them
together... with a multitude of problems :-)
On Wednesday, December 20, 2023 at 1:08:15 PM UTC-5, Tom Kunich wrote:
I would have expected that on a bicycles.tech group that there
would be people that build up their own bikes but aside from
Andrew apparently not.
Gee, let's recap what happened the last time someone besides tommy
decided to post a message about their latest build.
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/h-RVKnBFnds/m/hKCQ4lNXAQAJ "Does that look like the bike of a guy who claimed to be a racer? Or a
guy that is over 5'4" tall? I don't care what size he is or what way he
rides but misrepresenting himself is bullshit and gets tiresome. Compare
that to my normal ride"
Let's just set aside the fact that I very clearly stated I set it up for
my wife who does not race, has never raced, and will never race.
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/h-RVKnBFnds/m/OamKR05aAQAJ
" it has that damned unicrown fork on it that was always a POS."
Let's just set aside that it was actually a Steelman fork (From Brent Steelman of Steelman Cycles) - generally considered to be one of the higher-end steel forks available, and anyone familiar with the pre-trek
CX bikes made by Bontrager would know Bontrager didn't put POS unicrown
forks on his bikes - the Steelman fork was OEM on the Bontrager CX.
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/h-RVKnBFnds/m/Pht5ZR3sAQAJ
" What was with that crap that he was going to "return to racing CX"?
The bike was totally inadequate and physically he doesn't even have the proper body type."
Let's just set aside that the bike was marketed by Bontrager (pre-trek)
as a CX racing bike, and professional CX racers run just as wide a morphological range as road racers, with 2022 world champion Tom Pidcock
at 5'7" 130#, and current CX world cup leader Eli Iserbyt at 5'5" and
125# on the 'smaller' end of riders.
So tommy, why would anyone want to post anything about building their
own bikes when they see you being such a fucking asshole when someone does?
On Saturday, February 25, 2023 at 11:40:24 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman wrote:wrote:
On Saturday, February 25, 2023 at 8:28:51 PM UTC+1, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, February 25, 2023 at 6:25:37 AM UTC-8, Lou Holtman
funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:On Saturday, February 25, 2023 at 3:02:03 PM UTC+1,
get back into racing after a short hiatus to build career and family.I bought this Pre-Trek Beauty in about 2000 when I decided to
response, it was a bit heavy, and as the years of CX racing in NewWhile the ride of this bike was a fantastic stable feel and
the Missus asked about getting a gravel bike. "I have just the thing forSo this hung in my basement for a while, until recently when
Bontrager CX wheels (post Trek), Vittoria Rubino 30 gravel tires, andThe new build is SRAM Force/Apex, with red TRP canti's and
rides as smooth, stable, comfortable, and responsive as I remember, andI took it out for a mostly paved jaunt to shake it out. It
Merlin build) with an Ultegra single 38 crank, SRP cantis, and RolfShe'll be taking it on some rail trails this year.
The first build was Campy Chorus (recently retired from a
Racing the rig ~2009
at Shedd Park in Lowell MA:
AppleCross in Hampton NH
Or a guy that is over 5'4" tall? I don't care what size he is or whatHave fun with it.Does that look like the bike of a guy who claimed to be a racer?
pictures also show him riding 50 or 52 cm bikes,It is set up for his wife.
LouYes, but he infers that it is an older bike of his own. The other
He's not the person he pretends to be in his postings.
As for comments elsewhere - I knew Keith Bontrager and when he wasclosing shop after selling out to Trek, he gave me a sack full of
And that fork on that bike is a unicrown fork. While I don't rememberBrent making any of those horrible things, perhaps he did.
On a hard bump the wheel can deform on rebound and cut the tire. Ihave seen it happen several times.
It is fine that Flunky raced. I'm sure he never did any good but thatis also what all but the top 3 of a field do, so that sort or racing is
On Thu, 21 Dec 2023 17:37:24 -0500, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 05:33:31 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 21 Dec 2023 07:22:17 -0500, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:
On Wednesday, December 20, 2023 at 1:08:15?PM UTC-5, Tom Kunich wrote:Granted it is much a matter of semantics but Tom doesn't "build"
I would have expected that on a bicycles.tech group that there
would be people that build up their own bikes but aside from
Andrew apparently not.
Gee, let's recap what happened the last time someone besides tommy >>>>decided to post a message about their latest build.
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/h-RVKnBFnds/m/hKCQ4lNXAQAJ >>>>"Does that look like the bike of a guy who claimed to be a racer? Or a >>>>guy that is over 5'4" tall? I don't care what size he is or what way he >>>>rides but misrepresenting himself is bullshit and gets tiresome. Compare >>>>that to my normal ride"
Let's just set aside the fact that I very clearly stated I set it up for >>>>my wife who does not race, has never raced, and will never race.
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/h-RVKnBFnds/m/OamKR05aAQAJ >>>>" it has that damned unicrown fork on it that was always a POS."
Let's just set aside that it was actually a Steelman fork (From Brent >>>>Steelman of Steelman Cycles) - generally considered to be one of the >>>>higher-end steel forks available, and anyone familiar with the pre-trek >>>>CX bikes made by Bontrager would know Bontrager didn't put POS unicrown >>>>forks on his bikes - the Steelman fork was OEM on the Bontrager CX.
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/h-RVKnBFnds/m/Pht5ZR3sAQAJ >>>>" What was with that crap that he was going to "return to racing CX"? >>>>The bike was totally inadequate and physically he doesn't even have the >>>>proper body type."
Let's just set aside that the bike was marketed by Bontrager (pre-trek) >>>>as a CX racing bike, and professional CX racers run just as wide a >>>>morphological range as road racers, with 2022 world champion Tom Pidcock >>>>at 5'7" 130#, and current CX world cup leader Eli Iserbyt at 5'5" and >>>>125# on the 'smaller' end of riders.
So tommy, why would anyone want to post anything about building their >>>>own bikes when they see you being such a fucking asshole when someone does? >>>
bikes, he "assembles" bikes. i.e. gets the parts and puts them >>>together... with a multitude of problems :-)
A guy who "assembles" houses out of parts he bought isn't building
houses?
One definition I came across was "The first little pig built his house
from straw, the second from sticks and the third from bricks" :-)
But does one order a bedroom, a living room and a kitchen and have
them delivered on a big truck? Or does one order a stack of 2 x 4's
and some boards?
Does on order a frame and two wheels? Or some tubes and lugs and a new
gas bottle for the acetylene torch?
On Thursday, December 21, 2023 at 6:37:16 PM UTC-5, Tom Kunich wrote:
Now that you've shown everyone that you are indeed Flunky signing on in yet another persona so that you can agree with yourself.
I've never claimed Zencycle wasn't Funkmaster, dumbass. You seem to be to only one too dense to figure it out.
People will begin to see why I hold you in such disgust.
newsflash, dumbass, no one here gives a flying fuck what you consider to be disgusting.
While that Steelman you're riding has a lot of clearance I do not believe that is a one of Brent's forks
Well, gee sparky, the internet is your friend!
https://web.archive.org/web/20030207230412/http://www.steelmancycles.com/cc.html
"The CC frame is equipped with our own exclusive straight blade unicrown fork."
I guess you could call that 'straight from the horses mouth' - ad copy on Steelmans website stating they make an exclusive straightblade unicrown fork.
He sold the forks separately to frame builders - like Keith Bontrager - for use as OEM options. Here's another:
Steelman CX set up as a singlespeed with a Steelman unicrown fork https://www.mtbr.com/threads/vintage-ss-fixed-steelman-eurocross-porn-now-functional-wall-art.1221872/?post_id=15979579&nested_view=1#post-15979579
and another:
Moot TI with a Steelman unicrown fork https://www.mtbr.com/threads/moots-psychlo-x-ybb-titanium-cyclocross-bike.1207320/#post-15690919
And another: https://www.retrobike.co.uk/threads/show-us-your-700c-atb-mtb-hybrid.459355/page-3
Unicrown forks are very poorly made.
only when someone doesn't know what they're doing - like you.
Bontrager, Dennis Ritchey and Steelman all built good custom bikes., If that came from Brent, he bought it to finish a cheap bike.
No, stupid, Brent Steelman made exceptionally high quality steel unicrown forks. He used them on his bikes, and sold them to other custom builders for use on their bikes. There's nothing wrong with unicrown forks.
As usual, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
Now that you've shown everyone that you are indeed Flunky signing onin yet another persona so that you can agree with yourself.
People will begin to see why I hold you in such disgust.
While that Steelman you're riding has a lot of clearance I do notbelieve that is a one of Brent's forks
Unicrown forks are very poorly made.
Bontrager, Dennis Ritchey and Steelman all built good custom bikes.,If that came from Brent, he bought it to finish a cheap bike.
On 12/21/2023 7:21 PM, funkma...@hotmail.com wrote:on in yet another persona so that you can agree with yourself.
On Thursday, December 21, 2023 at 6:37:16 PM UTC-5, Tom Kunich wrote:
Now that you've shown everyone that you are indeed Flunky signing
be to only one too dense to figure it out.I've never claimed Zencycle wasn't Funkmaster, dumbass. You seem to
consider to be disgusting.People will begin to see why I hold you in such disgust.
newsflash, dumbass, no one here gives a flying fuck what you
believe that is a one of Brent's forksWhile that Steelman you're riding has a lot of clearance I do not
Well, gee sparky, the internet is your friend!
unicrown fork.""The CC frame is equipped with our own exclusive straight blade
copy on Steelmans website stating they make an exclusive straightbladeI guess you could call that 'straight from the horses mouth' - ad
Bontrager - for use as OEM options. Here's another:He sold the forks separately to frame builders - like Keith
Steelman CX set up as a singlespeed with a Steelman unicrown fork
and another:
Moot TI with a Steelman unicrown fork
And another:
bikes., If that came from Brent, he bought it to finish a cheap bike.Unicrown forks are very poorly made.
only when someone doesn't know what they're doing - like you.
Bontrager, Dennis Ritchey and Steelman all built good custom
unicrown forks. He used them on his bikes, and sold them to other custom builders for use on their bikes. There's nothing wrong with unicrown forks.No, stupid, Brent Steelman made exceptionally high quality steel
As usual, you don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
--
On Thu, 21 Dec 2023 17:37:24 -0500, Catrike Ryder
<Soloman@old.bikers.org> wrote:
On Fri, 22 Dec 2023 05:33:31 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 21 Dec 2023 07:22:17 -0500, Zen Cycle <funkmaster@hotmail.com> >>>wrote:
On Wednesday, December 20, 2023 at 1:08:15?PM UTC-5, Tom Kunich wrote:Granted it is much a matter of semantics but Tom doesn't "build"
I would have expected that on a bicycles.tech group that there
would be people that build up their own bikes but aside from
Andrew apparently not.
Gee, let's recap what happened the last time someone besides tommy >>>>decided to post a message about their latest build.
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/h-RVKnBFnds/m/hKCQ4lNXAQAJ >>>>"Does that look like the bike of a guy who claimed to be a racer? Or a >>>>guy that is over 5'4" tall? I don't care what size he is or what way he >>>>rides but misrepresenting himself is bullshit and gets tiresome. Compare >>>>that to my normal ride"
Let's just set aside the fact that I very clearly stated I set it up for >>>>my wife who does not race, has never raced, and will never race.
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/h-RVKnBFnds/m/OamKR05aAQAJ >>>>" it has that damned unicrown fork on it that was always a POS."
Let's just set aside that it was actually a Steelman fork (From Brent >>>>Steelman of Steelman Cycles) - generally considered to be one of the >>>>higher-end steel forks available, and anyone familiar with the pre-trek >>>>CX bikes made by Bontrager would know Bontrager didn't put POS unicrown >>>>forks on his bikes - the Steelman fork was OEM on the Bontrager CX.
https://groups.google.com/g/rec.bicycles.tech/c/h-RVKnBFnds/m/Pht5ZR3sAQAJ >>>>" What was with that crap that he was going to "return to racing CX"? >>>>The bike was totally inadequate and physically he doesn't even have the >>>>proper body type."
Let's just set aside that the bike was marketed by Bontrager (pre-trek) >>>>as a CX racing bike, and professional CX racers run just as wide a >>>>morphological range as road racers, with 2022 world champion Tom Pidcock >>>>at 5'7" 130#, and current CX world cup leader Eli Iserbyt at 5'5" and >>>>125# on the 'smaller' end of riders.
So tommy, why would anyone want to post anything about building their >>>>own bikes when they see you being such a fucking asshole when someone does? >>>
bikes, he "assembles" bikes. i.e. gets the parts and puts them >>>together... with a multitude of problems :-)
A guy who "assembles" houses out of parts he bought isn't building
houses?
One definition I came across was "The first little pig built his house
from straw, the second from sticks and the third from bricks" :-)
But does one order a bedroom, a living room and a kitchen and have
them delivered on a big truck? Or does one order a stack of 2 x 4's
and some boards?
Does on order a frame and two wheels? Or some tubes and lugs and a new
gas bottle for the acetylene torch?
On 12/22/2023 11:20 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
One used to be able to order a house kit, to be assembledon site:
https://thecraftsmanblog.com/the-history-of-sears-kit-homes/
The house across the street from mine is one, built orassembled some time
in the thirties. It's an attractive house.
Today there are all manner of factory built "modular"houses that can be
installed on site, with a bit of finishing required.Some are really
nice buildings, not the stereotypical double-wide.
As I understand it, the Sears houses were kits composed of
individual 2x4s, etc. Unlike the modular houses, the Sears
kids had to be knocked together one nail at a time.
And it is amazing to me that the biggest investment most
families ever make is assembled almost exactly as it was in
~1930. Roof trusses are often shipped assembled (to the
detriment of attic space) but the rest of a house is usually
stick built, with work halting for bad weather, etc.
I recently read an article about the repeated efforts to
improve that situation - to do sub-assemblies in factories
and ship them to site - but apparently it's a difficult
problem. Many attempts have failed.
But ideas are always cooking. This looks kind of interesting: https://youtu.be/vL2KoMNzGTo?t=1
On 12/22/2023 12:13 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/22/2023 11:00 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/22/2023 11:20 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
some time
One used to be able to order a house kit, to be assembled on site:
https://thecraftsmanblog.com/the-history-of-sears-kit-homes/
The house across the street from mine is one, built or assembled
in the thirties. It's an attractive house.can be
Today there are all manner of factory built "modular" houses that
installed on site, with a bit of finishing required. Some are really
nice buildings, not the stereotypical double-wide.
As I understand it, the Sears houses were kits composed of individual
2x4s, etc. Unlike the modular houses, the Sears kids had to be knocked
together one nail at a time.
And it is amazing to me that the biggest investment most families ever
make is assembled almost exactly as it was in ~1930. Roof trusses are
often shipped assembled (to the detriment of attic space) but the rest
of a house is usually stick built, with work halting for bad weather,
etc.
I recently read an article about the repeated efforts to improve that
situation - to do sub-assemblies in factories and ship them to site -
but apparently it's a difficult problem. Many attempts have failed.
But ideas are always cooking. This looks kind of interesting:
https://youtu.be/vL2KoMNzGTo?t=1
OK, interesting.
My (small) understanding of reinforced concrete construction from my
time laying and tying rebar is that they can save a lot of labor and
steel costs that way.
If it were my house, I'd prefer a CE and an architect rather than a
software designer.
Designing this system had to have been a huge effort. I'm sure multiple
CEs were involved.
As you know, I tend toward retro-grouchery. Regarding printed concrete,
I wonder what happens if they owners later want to remodel.
One engineer friend of mine built his own home on remote country
property, using a book's "innovative" construction techniques that were purportedly much better than standard methods.
When I visited him years later, he said he'd like to hang the author of
that book. By then he had done an addition to the original house, but he
used conventional construction.
On Fri, 12 Jan 2024 21:40:22 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 12/22/2023 12:13 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 12/22/2023 11:00 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 12/22/2023 11:20 AM, Radey Shouman wrote:
some time
One used to be able to order a house kit, to be assembled on site: >>>>>>
https://thecraftsmanblog.com/the-history-of-sears-kit-homes/
The house across the street from mine is one, built or assembled
in the thirties. It's an attractive house.can be
Today there are all manner of factory built "modular" houses that
installed on site, with a bit of finishing required. Some are really >>>>>> nice buildings, not the stereotypical double-wide.
As I understand it, the Sears houses were kits composed of individual >>>>> 2x4s, etc. Unlike the modular houses, the Sears kids had to be knocked >>>>> together one nail at a time.
And it is amazing to me that the biggest investment most families ever >>>>> make is assembled almost exactly as it was in ~1930. Roof trusses are >>>>> often shipped assembled (to the detriment of attic space) but the rest >>>>> of a house is usually stick built, with work halting for bad weather, >>>>> etc.
I recently read an article about the repeated efforts to improve that >>>>> situation - to do sub-assemblies in factories and ship them to site - >>>>> but apparently it's a difficult problem. Many attempts have failed.
But ideas are always cooking. This looks kind of interesting:
https://youtu.be/vL2KoMNzGTo?t=1
OK, interesting.
My (small) understanding of reinforced concrete construction from my
time laying and tying rebar is that they can save a lot of labor and
steel costs that way.
If it were my house, I'd prefer a CE and an architect rather than a
software designer.
Designing this system had to have been a huge effort. I'm sure multiple
CEs were involved.
As you know, I tend toward retro-grouchery. Regarding printed concrete,
I wonder what happens if they owners later want to remodel.
One engineer friend of mine built his own home on remote country
property, using a book's "innovative" construction techniques that were
purportedly much better than standard methods.
When I visited him years later, he said he'd like to hang the author of
that book. By then he had done an addition to the original house, but he >>> used conventional construction.
Certainly something to the if it isnÂ’t broke donÂ’t fix it with some method >> of construction, certainly some structures and infrastructure havenÂ’t
lasted as long as perhaps expected?
Roger Merriman
My maternal grandfather's house was built in 17-something, admittedly
up dated with inside plumbing, electricity and so on over the years
but still standing today.
On 1/13/2024 4:40 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:<roger@sarlet.com>
On Fri, 12 Jan 2024 21:40:22 GMT, Roger Merriman
it with some methodwrote:
Certainly something to the if it isnÂ’t broke donÂ’t fix
of construction...
I think the issue especially with typical U.S. home
construction is that it seems there ought to be a better
way. A house is the biggest expense most families take on.
It's weird that the way it's manufactured hasn't changed
much in 100+ years. Contrast that to the second biggest
expense, the automobile. A modern car factory and a car's
design is nothing like that of a 1923 Model T Ford.
17-something, admittedly... certainly some structures and infrastructure havenÂ’t
lasted as long as perhaps expected?
My maternal grandfather's house was built in
over the yearsup dated with inside plumbing, electricity and so on
in the few to manybut still standing today.Well indeed various buildings still standing local to me
hundreds of years old. Seems generally that the buildingstend not to
structurally fail but it’s often cheaper/fashionable tohave a newer
building and so on.
The suburban village I live in has some love for its
history. There are several historic mansions, many other
more modest houses have historic plaques, several newer
buildings were designed to blend with historic architecture,
etc.
And there are two historic school buildings still in use.
This past year, for the second time, the school board
proposed a tax levy to raise money to tear down those
buildings and build new schools, probably outside the
village. For only the second time ever (AFAIK) the school
levy was defeated.
Part of the school board's rationale was that maintenance
costs would be lower in a new building. But another part was
that it will be too hard to equip the existing buildings for
the latest internet technology - probably meaning running
fiber optic cables (or "light lines," chuckle!) to every
classroom. But to me that makes no more sense than saying,
in the 1990s, "We have to remodel so we can play cassette
tapes in every room!"
Of course, I'm an acknowledged retrogrouch. But I do greatly
prefer the look of good older architecture. I see no value
in applying "trendy" looks to something that's intended to
last for many decades, let alone hundreds of years. "Trendy"
becomes unfashionably ugly very quickly.
On 1/13/2024 12:17 PM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/13/2024 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/13/2024 4:40 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:<roger@sarlet.com>
On Fri, 12 Jan 2024 21:40:22 GMT, Roger Merriman
fix it with some methodwrote:
;
Certainly something to the if it isnÂ’t broke donÂ’t
of construction...
I think the issue especially with typical U.S. home
construction is that it seems there ought to be a better
way. A house is the biggest expense most families take
on. It's weird that the way it's manufactured hasn't
changed much in 100+ years. Contrast that to the second
biggest expense, the automobile. A modern car factory and
a car's design is nothing like that of a 1923 Model T Ford.
havenÂ’t... certainly some structures and infrastructure
17-something, admittedlylasted as long as perhaps expected?;
My maternal grandfather's house was built in
over the yearsup dated with inside plumbing, electricity and so on
me in the few to manybut still standing today.Well indeed various buildings still standing local to
;
hundreds of years old. Seems generally that thebuildings tend not to
structurally fail but it’s often cheaper/fashionableto have a newer
building and so on.
The suburban village I live in has some love for its
history. There are several historic mansions, many other
more modest houses have historic plaques, several newer
buildings were designed to blend with historic
architecture, etc.
And there are two historic school buildings still in use.
This past year, for the second time, the school board
proposed a tax levy to raise money to tear down those
buildings and build new schools, probably outside the
village. For only the second time ever (AFAIK) the school
levy was defeated.
Part of the school board's rationale was that maintenance
costs would be lower in a new building. But another part
was that it will be too hard to equip the existing
buildings for the latest internet technology - probably
meaning running fiber optic cables (or "light lines,"
chuckle!) to every classroom. But to me that makes no
more sense than saying, in the 1990s, "We have to remodel
so we can play cassette tapes in every room!"
Of course, I'm an acknowledged retrogrouch. But I do
greatly prefer the look of good older architecture. I see
no value in applying "trendy" looks to something that's
intended to last for many decades, let alone hundreds of
years. "Trendy" becomes unfashionably ugly very quickly.
I'm sure improvements may and will be made* (and are
ongoing; PVC plumbing, multiple layer glass, synthetic
insulation etc) but the uniquely US typical housing
construction format:
https://www.cotswold-homes.com/the-balloon-frame-a-new-way-of-home-construction-in-america/
is historically significant to our exceptional rates of
home ownership. To economists anyway if not to
architectural critics.
Yes, modern framing is better than post and beam, which
hasn't been used much for homes in the past 100 years. And
yes, the details are improved. But the fundamentals are
still at a 1920s level: Bring a bunch of sticks to the job
site and hammer them together until you've got a wall. Seems
like there should be better ways.
On Saturday, January 13, 2024 at 9:17:38 AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/13/2024 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:Around here they always use the excuse that buildings are not earthquake safe. So why do all of the replacements end up with walls of plain glass?
On 1/13/2024 4:40 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:I'm sure improvements may and will be made* (and are
John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:<ro...@sarlet.com>
On Fri, 12 Jan 2024 21:40:22 GMT, Roger Merriman
it with some methodwrote:
Certainly something to the if it isn’t broke don’t fix
of construction...
I think the issue especially with typical U.S. home
construction is that it seems there ought to be a better
way. A house is the biggest expense most families take on.
It's weird that the way it's manufactured hasn't changed
much in 100+ years. Contrast that to the second biggest
expense, the automobile. A modern car factory and a car's
design is nothing like that of a 1923 Model T Ford.
17-something, admittedly... certainly some structures and infrastructure haven’t
lasted as long as perhaps expected?
My maternal grandfather's house was built in
over the yearsup dated with inside plumbing, electricity and so on
in the few to manybut still standing today.Well indeed various buildings still standing local to me
hundreds of years old. Seems generally that the buildingstend not to
structurally fail but it’s often cheaper/fashionable tohave a newer
building and so on.
The suburban village I live in has some love for its
history. There are several historic mansions, many other
more modest houses have historic plaques, several newer
buildings were designed to blend with historic architecture,
etc.
And there are two historic school buildings still in use.
This past year, for the second time, the school board
proposed a tax levy to raise money to tear down those
buildings and build new schools, probably outside the
village. For only the second time ever (AFAIK) the school
levy was defeated.
Part of the school board's rationale was that maintenance
costs would be lower in a new building. But another part was
that it will be too hard to equip the existing buildings for
the latest internet technology - probably meaning running
fiber optic cables (or "light lines," chuckle!) to every
classroom. But to me that makes no more sense than saying,
in the 1990s, "We have to remodel so we can play cassette
tapes in every room!"
Of course, I'm an acknowledged retrogrouch. But I do greatly
prefer the look of good older architecture. I see no value
in applying "trendy" looks to something that's intended to
last for many decades, let alone hundreds of years. "Trendy"
becomes unfashionably ugly very quickly.
ongoing; PVC plumbing, multiple layer glass, synthetic
insulation etc) but the uniquely US typical housing
construction format:
https://www.cotswold-homes.com/the-balloon-frame-a-new-way-of-home-construction-in-america/
is historically significant to our exceptional rates of home
ownership. To economists anyway if not to architectural
critics.
* Fifty years ago, residential steel roofs were
prohibitively expensive and extremely rare. That's changed
and I can't praise them enough. At least in snow country.
--
Andrew Muzi
a...@yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971
On 1/13/2024 4:40 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:
John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:method
On Fri, 12 Jan 2024 21:40:22 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:
Certainly something to the if it isnÂ’t broke donÂ’t fix it with some
of construction...
I think the issue especially with typical U.S. home construction is that
it seems there ought to be a better way. A house is the biggest expense
most families take on. It's weird that the way it's manufactured hasn't changed much in 100+ years. Contrast that to the second biggest expense,
the automobile. A modern car factory and a car's design is nothing like
that of a 1923 Model T Ford.
to manyWell indeed various buildings still standing local to me in the few... certainly some structures and infrastructure havenÂ’t
lasted as long as perhaps expected?
My maternal grandfather's house was built in 17-something, admittedly
up dated with inside plumbing, electricity and so on over the years
but still standing today.
hundreds of years old. Seems generally that the buildings tend not to
structurally fail but it’s often cheaper/fashionable to have a newer
building and so on.
The suburban village I live in has some love for its history. There are several historic mansions, many other more modest houses have historic plaques, several newer buildings were designed to blend with historic architecture, etc.
And there are two historic school buildings still in use. This past
year, for the second time, the school board proposed a tax levy to raise money to tear down those buildings and build new schools, probably
outside the village. For only the second time ever (AFAIK) the school
levy was defeated.
Part of the school board's rationale was that maintenance costs would be lower in a new building. But another part was that it will be too hard
to equip the existing buildings for the latest internet technology -
probably meaning running fiber optic cables (or "light lines," chuckle!)
to every classroom. But to me that makes no more sense than saying, in
the 1990s, "We have to remodel so we can play cassette tapes in every room!"
Of course, I'm an acknowledged retrogrouch. But I do greatly prefer the
look of good older architecture. I see no value in applying "trendy"
looks to something that's intended to last for many decades, let alone hundreds of years. "Trendy" becomes unfashionably ugly very quickly.
On Sat, 13 Jan 2024 13:42:34 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/13/2024 12:36 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2024 at 9:17:38?AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/13/2024 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/13/2024 4:40 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:I'm sure improvements may and will be made* (and are
John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:<ro...@sarlet.com>
On Fri, 12 Jan 2024 21:40:22 GMT, Roger Merriman
it with some methodwrote:
Certainly something to the if it isn’t broke don’t fix
of construction...
I think the issue especially with typical U.S. home
construction is that it seems there ought to be a better
way. A house is the biggest expense most families take on.
It's weird that the way it's manufactured hasn't changed
much in 100+ years. Contrast that to the second biggest
expense, the automobile. A modern car factory and a car's
design is nothing like that of a 1923 Model T Ford.
17-something, admittedly... certainly some structures and infrastructure haven’t
lasted as long as perhaps expected?
My maternal grandfather's house was built in
over the yearsup dated with inside plumbing, electricity and so on
in the few to manybut still standing today.Well indeed various buildings still standing local to me
hundreds of years old. Seems generally that the buildingstend not to
structurally fail but it’s often cheaper/fashionable tohave a newer
building and so on.
The suburban village I live in has some love for its
history. There are several historic mansions, many other
more modest houses have historic plaques, several newer
buildings were designed to blend with historic architecture,
etc.
And there are two historic school buildings still in use.
This past year, for the second time, the school board
proposed a tax levy to raise money to tear down those
buildings and build new schools, probably outside the
village. For only the second time ever (AFAIK) the school
levy was defeated.
Part of the school board's rationale was that maintenance
costs would be lower in a new building. But another part was
that it will be too hard to equip the existing buildings for
the latest internet technology - probably meaning running
fiber optic cables (or "light lines," chuckle!) to every
classroom. But to me that makes no more sense than saying,
in the 1990s, "We have to remodel so we can play cassette
tapes in every room!"
Of course, I'm an acknowledged retrogrouch. But I do greatly
prefer the look of good older architecture. I see no value
in applying "trendy" looks to something that's intended to
last for many decades, let alone hundreds of years. "Trendy"
becomes unfashionably ugly very quickly.
ongoing; PVC plumbing, multiple layer glass, synthetic
insulation etc) but the uniquely US typical housing
construction format:
https://www.cotswold-homes.com/the-balloon-frame-a-new-way-of-home-construction-in-america/
is historically significant to our exceptional rates of home
ownership. To economists anyway if not to architectural
critics.
* Fifty years ago, residential steel roofs were
prohibitively expensive and extremely rare. That's changed
and I can't praise them enough. At least in snow country.
--
Andrew Muzi
a...@yellowjersey.org
Steel roofs? Do you mean galvanized roofing? It's been around for
years and years :-)
On Sun, 14 Jan 2024 10:36:02 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/13/2024 4:40 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:I’m not a retrogrouch but brave new world with both materials/design and >> set up don’t seem to have worked generally or lasted, ie the concrete tower
John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:method
On Fri, 12 Jan 2024 21:40:22 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:
Certainly something to the if it isn?t broke don?t fix it with some
of construction...
I think the issue especially with typical U.S. home construction is that >>> it seems there ought to be a better way. A house is the biggest expense
most families take on. It's weird that the way it's manufactured hasn't
changed much in 100+ years. Contrast that to the second biggest expense, >>> the automobile. A modern car factory and a car's design is nothing like
that of a 1923 Model T Ford.
to manyWell indeed various buildings still standing local to me in the few... certainly some structures and infrastructure haven?t
lasted as long as perhaps expected?
My maternal grandfather's house was built in 17-something, admittedly >>>>> up dated with inside plumbing, electricity and so on over the years
but still standing today.
hundreds of years old. Seems generally that the buildings tend not to
structurally fail but it’s often cheaper/fashionable to have a newer >>>> building and so on.
The suburban village I live in has some love for its history. There are
several historic mansions, many other more modest houses have historic
plaques, several newer buildings were designed to blend with historic
architecture, etc.
And there are two historic school buildings still in use. This past
year, for the second time, the school board proposed a tax levy to raise >>> money to tear down those buildings and build new schools, probably
outside the village. For only the second time ever (AFAIK) the school
levy was defeated.
Part of the school board's rationale was that maintenance costs would be >>> lower in a new building. But another part was that it will be too hard
to equip the existing buildings for the latest internet technology -
probably meaning running fiber optic cables (or "light lines," chuckle!) >>> to every classroom. But to me that makes no more sense than saying, in
the 1990s, "We have to remodel so we can play cassette tapes in every room!"
Of course, I'm an acknowledged retrogrouch. But I do greatly prefer the
look of good older architecture. I see no value in applying "trendy"
looks to something that's intended to last for many decades, let alone
hundreds of years. "Trendy" becomes unfashionably ugly very quickly.
blocks/with handy mugging traps and so on, or simply get so run down.
Built huge flat roofed towers in the Welsh valleys not a area tight on
space, or with a growing population, the reverse in fact (coal/iron towns) >> they only lasted a few decades combination of being unloved and wet cold
weather.
How we use our homes have changed over the years, but some ideas just don’t
work and in general folks like homes that are fairly conservative in nature >> ie don’t fix what isn’t broke!
Roger Merriman
Not to argue but how have "the use of homes changed over the years"?
Not to argue but how have "the use of homes changed over the years"?
On Mon, 15 Jan 2024 07:53:52 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
Not to argue but how have "the use of homes changed over the years"?
The average kitchen is no longer a major food-preservation facility.
The average housewife no longer expects to prepare a hearty meal for a
large group several times a year.
Home manufacture of clothing is now a hobby.
On Sun, 14 Jan 2024 10:36:02 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:
Frank Krygowski <frkrygow@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
On 1/13/2024 4:40 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:I’m not a retrogrouch but brave new world with both materials/design and >> set up don’t seem to have worked generally or lasted, ie the concrete tower
John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com> wrote:method
On Fri, 12 Jan 2024 21:40:22 GMT, Roger Merriman <roger@sarlet.com>
wrote:
Certainly something to the if it isn?t broke don?t fix it with some
of construction...
I think the issue especially with typical U.S. home construction is that >>> it seems there ought to be a better way. A house is the biggest expense
most families take on. It's weird that the way it's manufactured hasn't
changed much in 100+ years. Contrast that to the second biggest expense, >>> the automobile. A modern car factory and a car's design is nothing like
that of a 1923 Model T Ford.
to manyWell indeed various buildings still standing local to me in the few... certainly some structures and infrastructure haven?t
lasted as long as perhaps expected?
My maternal grandfather's house was built in 17-something, admittedly >>>>> up dated with inside plumbing, electricity and so on over the years
but still standing today.
hundreds of years old. Seems generally that the buildings tend not to
structurally fail but it’s often cheaper/fashionable to have a newer >>>> building and so on.
The suburban village I live in has some love for its history. There are
several historic mansions, many other more modest houses have historic
plaques, several newer buildings were designed to blend with historic
architecture, etc.
And there are two historic school buildings still in use. This past
year, for the second time, the school board proposed a tax levy to raise >>> money to tear down those buildings and build new schools, probably
outside the village. For only the second time ever (AFAIK) the school
levy was defeated.
Part of the school board's rationale was that maintenance costs would be >>> lower in a new building. But another part was that it will be too hard
to equip the existing buildings for the latest internet technology -
probably meaning running fiber optic cables (or "light lines," chuckle!) >>> to every classroom. But to me that makes no more sense than saying, in
the 1990s, "We have to remodel so we can play cassette tapes in every room!"
Of course, I'm an acknowledged retrogrouch. But I do greatly prefer the
look of good older architecture. I see no value in applying "trendy"
looks to something that's intended to last for many decades, let alone
hundreds of years. "Trendy" becomes unfashionably ugly very quickly.
blocks/with handy mugging traps and so on, or simply get so run down.
Built huge flat roofed towers in the Welsh valleys not a area tight on
space, or with a growing population, the reverse in fact (coal/iron towns) >> they only lasted a few decades combination of being unloved and wet cold
weather.
How we use our homes have changed over the years, but some ideas just don’t
work and in general folks like homes that are fairly conservative in nature >> ie don’t fix what isn’t broke!
Not to argue but how have "the use of homes changed over the years"?
On 1/13/2024 4:10 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 13 Jan 2024 13:42:34 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/13/2024 12:36 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2024 at 9:17:38?AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/13/2024 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/13/2024 4:40 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:I'm sure improvements may and will be made* (and are
John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:<ro...@sarlet.com>
On Fri, 12 Jan 2024 21:40:22 GMT, Roger Merriman
it with some methodwrote:
Certainly something to the if it isn’t broke don’t fix
of construction...
I think the issue especially with typical U.S. home
construction is that it seems there ought to be a better
way. A house is the biggest expense most families take on.
It's weird that the way it's manufactured hasn't changed
much in 100+ years. Contrast that to the second biggest
expense, the automobile. A modern car factory and a car's
design is nothing like that of a 1923 Model T Ford.
17-something, admittedly... certainly some structures and infrastructure haven’t
lasted as long as perhaps expected?
My maternal grandfather's house was built in
over the yearsup dated with inside plumbing, electricity and so on
in the few to manybut still standing today.Well indeed various buildings still standing local to me
hundreds of years old. Seems generally that the buildingstend not to
structurally fail but it’s often cheaper/fashionable tohave a newer
building and so on.
The suburban village I live in has some love for its
history. There are several historic mansions, many other
more modest houses have historic plaques, several newer
buildings were designed to blend with historic architecture,
etc.
And there are two historic school buildings still in use.
This past year, for the second time, the school board
proposed a tax levy to raise money to tear down those
buildings and build new schools, probably outside the
village. For only the second time ever (AFAIK) the school
levy was defeated.
Part of the school board's rationale was that maintenance
costs would be lower in a new building. But another part was
that it will be too hard to equip the existing buildings for
the latest internet technology - probably meaning running
fiber optic cables (or "light lines," chuckle!) to every
classroom. But to me that makes no more sense than saying,
in the 1990s, "We have to remodel so we can play cassette
tapes in every room!"
Of course, I'm an acknowledged retrogrouch. But I do greatly
prefer the look of good older architecture. I see no value
in applying "trendy" looks to something that's intended to
last for many decades, let alone hundreds of years. "Trendy"
becomes unfashionably ugly very quickly.
ongoing; PVC plumbing, multiple layer glass, synthetic
insulation etc) but the uniquely US typical housing
construction format:
https://www.cotswold-homes.com/the-balloon-frame-a-new-way-of-home-construction-in-america/
is historically significant to our exceptional rates of home
ownership. To economists anyway if not to architectural
critics.
* Fifty years ago, residential steel roofs were
prohibitively expensive and extremely rare. That's changed
and I can't praise them enough. At least in snow country.
--
Andrew Muzi
a...@yellowjersey.org
Steel roofs? Do you mean galvanized roofing? It's been around for
years and years :-)
Not like the quonset hut material. These are more substantial and well coated:
http://www.utahmetalroofs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/cl1.jpg
Shed snow well, less degradation from winter/summer temperature changes,
much lighter than asphalt.
Am 14.01.2024 um 16:47 schrieb AMuzi:
On 1/13/2024 4:10 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 13 Jan 2024 13:42:34 -0600, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/13/2024 12:36 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2024 at 9:17:38?AM UTC-8,
AMuzi wrote:
On 1/13/2024 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/13/2024 4:40 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:I'm sure improvements may and will be made* (and are
John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:<ro...@sarlet.com>
On Fri, 12 Jan 2024 21:40:22 GMT, Roger Merriman
it with some methodwrote:
Certainly something to the if it isn’t broke don’t
fix
of construction...
I think the issue especially with typical U.S. home
construction is that it seems there ought to be a better
way. A house is the biggest expense most families
take on.
It's weird that the way it's manufactured hasn't changed
much in 100+ years. Contrast that to the second biggest
expense, the automobile. A modern car factory and a
car's
design is nothing like that of a 1923 Model T Ford.
17-something, admittedly... certainly some structures and infrastructure
haven’t
lasted as long as perhaps expected?
My maternal grandfather's house was built in
over the yearsup dated with inside plumbing, electricity and so on
in the few to manybut still standing today.Well indeed various buildings still standing local
to me
hundreds of years old. Seems generally that thetend not to
buildings
structurally fail but it’s often cheaper/fashionable tohave a newer
building and so on.
The suburban village I live in has some love for its
history. There are several historic mansions, many other
more modest houses have historic plaques, several newer
buildings were designed to blend with historic
architecture,
etc.
And there are two historic school buildings still in
use.
This past year, for the second time, the school board
proposed a tax levy to raise money to tear down those
buildings and build new schools, probably outside the
village. For only the second time ever (AFAIK) the
school
levy was defeated.
Part of the school board's rationale was that
maintenance
costs would be lower in a new building. But another
part was
that it will be too hard to equip the existing
buildings for
the latest internet technology - probably meaning
running
fiber optic cables (or "light lines," chuckle!) to every
classroom. But to me that makes no more sense than
saying,
in the 1990s, "We have to remodel so we can play
cassette
tapes in every room!"
Of course, I'm an acknowledged retrogrouch. But I do
greatly
prefer the look of good older architecture. I see no
value
in applying "trendy" looks to something that's
intended to
last for many decades, let alone hundreds of years.
"Trendy"
becomes unfashionably ugly very quickly.
ongoing; PVC plumbing, multiple layer glass, synthetic
insulation etc) but the uniquely US typical housing
construction format:
https://www.cotswold-homes.com/the-balloon-frame-a-new-way-of-home-construction-in-america/
is historically significant to our exceptional rates
of home
ownership. To economists anyway if not to architectural
critics.
* Fifty years ago, residential steel roofs were
prohibitively expensive and extremely rare. That's
changed
and I can't praise them enough. At least in snow country.
--
Andrew Muzi
a...@yellowjersey.org
Steel roofs? Do you mean galvanized roofing? It's been
around for
years and years :-)
Not like the quonset hut material. These are more
substantial and well coated:
http://www.utahmetalroofs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/cl1.jpg
Shed snow well, less degradation from winter/summer
temperature changes, much lighter than asphalt.
My brother-in-law last year replaced several old
asbestos-tile roofs on old sheds by those metal roofs (it's
easy to put solar collectors on top of those) and learned
afterwards that they did not comply to the town's zoning
regulations.
On 1/15/2024 5:28 AM, Rolf Mantel wrote:
Am 14.01.2024 um 16:47 schrieb AMuzi:
http://www.utahmetalroofs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/cl1.jpg
Shed snow well, less degradation from winter/summer
temperature changes, much lighter than asphalt.
My brother-in-law last year replaced several old
asbestos-tile roofs on old sheds by those metal roofs
(it's easy to put solar collectors on top of those) and
learned afterwards that they did not comply to the town's
zoning regulations.
Where does your brother-in-law live?
Here in the U.S., "Homeowners' Organizations" are a big pain
for many people. These organizations spring up when a
developer builds a housing complex or condominium complex,
especially if the intent is to make it a bit exclusive. HOs
are notorious for banning things like paint colors outside a
very limited palette; or unusual shrubbery; or boats on
their trailers parked on a person's driveway; or even
clotheslines.
And for Andrew's benefit: Homeowners' Organizations are not
government-run. They're an example of free enterprise
restricting freedom.
Back to the modern metal roofs: They do make a house look
conspicuously different. Some don't like their aesthetics,
but they seem to work very well.
one of the things taught farm girls was
how to sew, which sort of implies that their mothers couldn't sew.
On Mon, 15 Jan 2024 07:53:52 +0700, John B. <slocombjb@gmail.com>
wrote:
Not to argue but how have "the use of homes changed over the years"?
The average kitchen is no longer a major food-preservation facility.
The average housewife no longer expects to prepare a hearty meal for a
large group several times a year.
Home manufacture of clothing is now a hobby.
On 1/13/2024 4:10 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 13 Jan 2024 13:42:34 -0600, AMuzi <am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/13/2024 12:36 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2024 at 9:17:38?AM UTC-8, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/13/2024 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/13/2024 4:40 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:I'm sure improvements may and will be made* (and are
John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:<ro...@sarlet.com>
On Fri, 12 Jan 2024 21:40:22 GMT, Roger Merriman
it with some methodwrote:
Certainly something to the if it isn’t broke don’t fix
of construction...
I think the issue especially with typical U.S. home
construction is that it seems there ought to be a better
way. A house is the biggest expense most families take on.
It's weird that the way it's manufactured hasn't changed
much in 100+ years. Contrast that to the second biggest
expense, the automobile. A modern car factory and a car's
design is nothing like that of a 1923 Model T Ford.
17-something, admittedly... certainly some structures and infrastructure haven’t
lasted as long as perhaps expected?
My maternal grandfather's house was built in
over the yearsup dated with inside plumbing, electricity and so on
in the few to manybut still standing today.Well indeed various buildings still standing local to me
hundreds of years old. Seems generally that the buildingstend not to
structurally fail but it’s often cheaper/fashionable tohave a newer
building and so on.
The suburban village I live in has some love for its
history. There are several historic mansions, many other
more modest houses have historic plaques, several newer
buildings were designed to blend with historic architecture,
etc.
And there are two historic school buildings still in use.
This past year, for the second time, the school board
proposed a tax levy to raise money to tear down those
buildings and build new schools, probably outside the
village. For only the second time ever (AFAIK) the school
levy was defeated.
Part of the school board's rationale was that maintenance
costs would be lower in a new building. But another part was
that it will be too hard to equip the existing buildings for
the latest internet technology - probably meaning running
fiber optic cables (or "light lines," chuckle!) to every
classroom. But to me that makes no more sense than saying,
in the 1990s, "We have to remodel so we can play cassette
tapes in every room!"
Of course, I'm an acknowledged retrogrouch. But I do greatly
prefer the look of good older architecture. I see no value
in applying "trendy" looks to something that's intended to
last for many decades, let alone hundreds of years. "Trendy"
becomes unfashionably ugly very quickly.
ongoing; PVC plumbing, multiple layer glass, synthetic
insulation etc) but the uniquely US typical housing
construction format:
https://www.cotswold-homes.com/the-balloon-frame-a-new-way-of-home-construction-in-america/
is historically significant to our exceptional rates of home
ownership. To economists anyway if not to architectural
critics.
* Fifty years ago, residential steel roofs were
prohibitively expensive and extremely rare. That's changed
and I can't praise them enough. At least in snow country.
--
Andrew Muzi
a...@yellowjersey.org
Steel roofs? Do you mean galvanized roofing? It's been around for
years and years :-)
Not like the quonset hut material. These are more substantial and well coated:
http://www.utahmetalroofs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/cl1.jpg
Shed snow well, less degradation from winter/summer temperature changes,
much lighter than asphalt.
On 1/14/2024 10:47 AM, AMuzi wrote:
On 1/13/2024 4:10 PM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 13 Jan 2024 13:42:34 -0600, AMuzi
<am@yellowjersey.org> wrote:
On 1/13/2024 12:36 PM, Tom Kunich wrote:
On Saturday, January 13, 2024 at 9:17:38?AM UTC-8,
AMuzi wrote:
On 1/13/2024 10:59 AM, Frank Krygowski wrote:
On 1/13/2024 4:40 AM, Roger Merriman wrote:I'm sure improvements may and will be made* (and are
John B. <sloc...@gmail.com> wrote:<ro...@sarlet.com>
On Fri, 12 Jan 2024 21:40:22 GMT, Roger Merriman
it with some methodwrote:
Certainly something to the if it isn’t broke don’t
fix
of construction...
I think the issue especially with typical U.S. home
construction is that it seems there ought to be a better
way. A house is the biggest expense most families
take on.
It's weird that the way it's manufactured hasn't changed
much in 100+ years. Contrast that to the second biggest
expense, the automobile. A modern car factory and a
car's
design is nothing like that of a 1923 Model T Ford.
17-something, admittedly... certainly some structures and infrastructure
haven’t
lasted as long as perhaps expected?
My maternal grandfather's house was built in
over the yearsup dated with inside plumbing, electricity and so on
in the few to manybut still standing today.Well indeed various buildings still standing local
to me
hundreds of years old. Seems generally that thetend not to
buildings
structurally fail but it’s often cheaper/fashionable tohave a newer
building and so on.
The suburban village I live in has some love for its
history. There are several historic mansions, many other
more modest houses have historic plaques, several newer
buildings were designed to blend with historic
architecture,
etc.
And there are two historic school buildings still in
use.
This past year, for the second time, the school board
proposed a tax levy to raise money to tear down those
buildings and build new schools, probably outside the
village. For only the second time ever (AFAIK) the
school
levy was defeated.
Part of the school board's rationale was that
maintenance
costs would be lower in a new building. But another
part was
that it will be too hard to equip the existing
buildings for
the latest internet technology - probably meaning
running
fiber optic cables (or "light lines," chuckle!) to every
classroom. But to me that makes no more sense than
saying,
in the 1990s, "We have to remodel so we can play
cassette
tapes in every room!"
Of course, I'm an acknowledged retrogrouch. But I do
greatly
prefer the look of good older architecture. I see no
value
in applying "trendy" looks to something that's
intended to
last for many decades, let alone hundreds of years.
"Trendy"
becomes unfashionably ugly very quickly.
ongoing; PVC plumbing, multiple layer glass, synthetic
insulation etc) but the uniquely US typical housing
construction format:
https://www.cotswold-homes.com/the-balloon-frame-a-new-way-of-home-construction-in-america/
is historically significant to our exceptional rates
of home
ownership. To economists anyway if not to architectural
critics.
* Fifty years ago, residential steel roofs were
prohibitively expensive and extremely rare. That's
changed
and I can't praise them enough. At least in snow country.
--
Andrew Muzi
a...@yellowjersey.org
Steel roofs? Do you mean galvanized roofing? It's been
around for
years and years :-)
Not like the quonset hut material. These are more
substantial and well coated:
http://www.utahmetalroofs.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/cl1.jpg
Shed snow well, less degradation from winter/summer
temperature changes, much lighter than asphalt.
Modern metal roofs have the added benefit of letting heavy
snow slide off which reduces risk of a collapse by weight,
as well as reducing long-term damage if holding water
(causing rot). One drawback - the snow sliding off can great
a hazard for people and cars parked close enough to get a
large column of heavy went snow avalanching off the roof. We
have one business here that puts a barrier keeping people
and cars away from the 'crush' zone.
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