• One opinion - How long will it take for Russia to capture the Ukrainian

    From a425couple@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 24 10:35:13 2022
    XPost: soc.history.war.misc

    Well,,,, here is one opinion.

    Symon Jemčenko
    Lived in Ukraine Sun

    How long will it take for Russia to capture the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv?
    In 1999–2000, Russian military spent more than 2 months capturing
    Chechen capital Grozny, then a city with a population of less than 200 thousand, from Chechen paramilitary forces. In this battle, Russia lost
    more than a thousand soldiers[1]. Despite capturing the capital, the war
    in Chechnya lasted for the whole next decade, with Russian troops losing thousands more people. Even today, there is sporadic resistance of
    Chechen militants to Russian rule in Chechnya.


    Grozny after the battle in 2000

    Ukraine is dozens of times bigger, more populated and economically
    powerful than Chechnya. Kyiv, the capital of Ukraine, is a city of
    almost 3 million people, 20 times bigger than Grozny was during the war.
    It stands on the Dnieper river, and has a strategic hill location, which
    makes it very hard to conquer. If Russia invades Ukraine, its troops
    will first need to reach Kyiv and break the resistance of Ukrainian professional army and paramilitary forces. Even if they reach Kyiv, the
    Russian losses would be huge. To capture Kyiv, the would have to break
    the resistance of not only the regular army, but also civilians, who are
    likely to use the city’s topography to destroy Russian invaders. Even if
    the city falls, Russia is to get a ruined place with lots of partisan
    activity, which will be a drain on both the personnel and economy. So
    many troops would be needed just to control the city and its outskirts,
    which are mostly forests, suitable for guerrilla activities, that
    further invasion of Ukraine would hardly be possible. This is why even a
    top Russian general warned Putin, that an invasion of Ukraine would be a disaster for Russia in the first place.


    Ukrainians in Kyiv training to resist a possible Russian invasion in 2021[2]

    To sum up, conquering Kyiv would be a very hard task for a Russian army,
    much harder than the Chechen campaign in the 1990s, even though Russian
    army is currently in a better condition. Attacking the city would mean
    death for many thousands of Russian troops, it would destabilize the
    situation inside of Russia, and it would make Ukrainians even more
    devoted to protect their country and resist the Russian invasion.
    Invading Kyiv would likely be the last thing Putin would do in his
    political career.

    Footnotes

    [1] Battle of Grozny (1999–2000) - Wikipedia
    [2] Training Civilians, Ukraine Nurtures a Resistance in Waiting
    95.4K viewsView 917 upvotesView 8 shares

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    and others

    A.M. Wilkinson
    · Tue
    Its also important to remember that the Russian army only faced between 3000–6000 Chechen fighters in the second battle of Grozny in 1999. And
    these are Russian estimates.

    Brian Mead
    · 18h ago
    The First Chechen War was horribly run from the start.

    Insufficient supplies, barely trained conscripts, people who didn’t want
    to fight it, half of the general staff quit rather than prosecute it,
    and home field advantage for defenders who were overwhelmingly combat
    veterans against mostly green boys.

    The Russian military of 2022 is unimaginably different from the Russian military of 1996.

    Steve Cooper
    · 8h ago
    Their equipment might have improved but I doubt the conditions or the
    will of the soldiers has changed much. I read an interesting suggestion yesterday that Ukraine leaflet the Russian soldiers with an offer of
    100,000 euro's to surrender.

    Might cost Ukraine and the west a few bllion dollars but it's cheaper
    than war.

    Michael Burnet
    · Tue
    Not to mention the bloodbath in 1994–95….


    Jack Spektor
    · Sun
    Russian general's boasted they would take Grozny in 4 hours and with 1
    special ops battalion

    Dobromir Prigorski
    · Sun
    I find it comical how they say “Go to Donieck and you will see how cruel
    the Ukrainian army is randomly genociding civilians”. Meanwhile they
    made Dresden v2. in Groznyj in 2000.

    Yuri Khaizar
    · Sun
    But they took Crimea without turning it to Drezden v3.

    Ion Lazar
    · Sun
    Crimea had a considerably large Russian military bases complex operating
    there already, since kinda always. Under a rather lengthy lease contract
    with Ukraine. One can wonder why Russia really needed to seize that
    place. Routinely easy task, however it looked like shooting in the leg
    in the aftermath.

    Cem Cakim
    · Mon
    Ukraine will show big resistance that will end the war between the two countries with a stalemate. But this will signal the start of Putin’s downfall which should take place in late 2023.

    Joseph Admire
    · Tue
    As they say, from your mouth to God’s ear. There have been rumbles for a while of increasing discontent in Russia, I know that, though so far
    it’s all still subterranean.

    Cem Cakim
    Putin is ill; he has Parkinson and his left hand is shaking. Next year (probably), he will leave the office in the grounds of health.

    Robert Justinoff
    · 22h ago
    There are other views that Putin will carry on into the 2030s with his
    inner circle in a much changed world. He will carry on to Putinize
    eastern Europe.

    robably), he will leave the office in the grounds of health.
    Profile photo for Robert Justinoff
    Robert Justinoff
    · 22h ago
    There are other views that Putin will carry on into the 2030s with his
    inner circle in a much changed world. He will carry on to Putinize
    eastern Europe.

    Brian Mead
    · 18h ago
    Putin already knows conquering Ukraine is a self defeating move; it
    would give him a border with NATO instead of a buffer state. He lived
    the Chechen embarassment and would not repeat it. You overestimate the
    state of Ukraine’s military.


    I have a full answer on the subject, but, TL;DR: Russia has twice as
    many professional full time volunteer troops as Ukraine has troops.

    Besides, Ukraine’s economy is pathetic. It would be too expensive to
    develop.

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  • From SolomonW@21:1/5 to All on Fri Feb 25 15:59:55 2022
    XPost: soc.history.war.misc

    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 10:35:13 -0800, a425couple wrote:

    How long will it take for Russia to capture the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv?

    I have been wrong a lot about this conflict. I still think it would have
    been better off accepting Moscow's demands that Ukraine not join NATO for
    many years.

    I am also convinced that Russia does not want to take
    Ukraine, so Kyiv is not high. Currently, Russian units are attempting to encircle Kyiv and advance into Kharkiv.


    So I suspect that Russia will stop until it takes Ukraine's access to the
    sea in the South and expands the Donbas region. Then they will offer terms.
    As the Russians are in no rush in taking these territories it will be
    awhile.

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  • From Blueshirt@21:1/5 to SolomonW on Fri Feb 25 10:56:11 2022
    XPost: soc.history.war.misc

    On 25/02/2022 04:59, SolomonW wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 10:35:13 -0800, a425couple wrote:

    How long will it take for Russia to capture the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv?

    I have been wrong a lot about this conflict. I still think it would have
    been better off accepting Moscow's demands that Ukraine not join NATO for many years.

    NATO expansionist policies in to former Warsaw Pact territories have led Ukraine down the garden path... it's not like the Ukraine is anywhere
    near the North Atlantic.

    Now Ukraine are paying the price for their stupidity in believing the
    promises of the "west". I don't see anyone's armed forces rushing to
    defend Ukraine. All the "west" are doing is imposing sanctions and doing
    plenty of talking in press conferences. That's a bit like saying; "you
    are a naughty boy Vladimir, please stop" and then slapping him on the
    wrist. Putin doesn't give a fuck about sanctions.

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  • From a425couple@21:1/5 to SolomonW on Fri Feb 25 10:25:53 2022
    XPost: soc.history.war.misc

    On 2/24/2022 8:59 PM, SolomonW wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 10:35:13 -0800, a425couple wrote:

    How long will it take for Russia to capture the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv?

    I have been wrong a lot about this conflict.

    If I had offered any prediction, I'd have also
    been wrong a lot.
    From what the news is saying, I'm surprised.

    I still think it would have
    been better off accepting Moscow's demands that Ukraine not join NATO for many years.


    That would have made sense.
    Except, that then accepts that Russia has a right to
    force it's opinion and wishes on others.

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  • From SolomonW@21:1/5 to Blueshirt on Sun Feb 27 08:13:48 2022
    XPost: soc.history.war.misc

    On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 10:56:11 +0000, Blueshirt wrote:

    On 25/02/2022 04:59, SolomonW wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Feb 2022 10:35:13 -0800, a425couple wrote:

    How long will it take for Russia to capture the Ukrainian capital of Kyiv? >>
    I have been wrong a lot about this conflict. I still think it would have
    been better off accepting Moscow's demands that Ukraine not join NATO for
    many years.

    NATO expansionist policies in to former Warsaw Pact territories have led Ukraine down the garden path... it's not like the Ukraine is anywhere
    near the North Atlantic.

    Now Ukraine are paying the price for their stupidity in believing the promises of the "west". I don't see anyone's armed forces rushing to
    defend Ukraine. All the "west" are doing is imposing sanctions and doing plenty of talking in press conferences. That's a bit like saying; "you
    are a naughty boy Vladimir, please stop" and then slapping him on the
    wrist. Putin doesn't give a fuck about sanctions.


    The sad fact is that Ukraine would not have joined NATO for a long time
    anyway.

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  • From SolomonW@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 27 08:14:34 2022
    XPost: soc.history.war.misc

    On Fri, 25 Feb 2022 10:25:53 -0800, a425couple wrote:

    I still think it would have
    been better off accepting Moscow's demands that Ukraine not join NATO for
    many years.


    That would have made sense.
    Except, that then accepts that Russia has a right to
    force it's opinion and wishes on others.

    A superpower on a decline is very dangerous.

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