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  • YASID -- Giant washed up on beach

    From Michael F. Stemper@21:1/5 to All on Fri Oct 27 08:34:41 2023
    Yesterday, I referred to a short story in which a giant's corpse washes
    up on a beach. For a day or two, the residents of the nearby community
    a reticent about approaching it. Then, they start posing for pictures
    next to it; then climbing on top of it.

    Somebody cuts off a part of its body for a museum. Scavenging increases,
    until finally all that's left is a skeleton.

    Can anybody identify this? Given its depressing nature, I'd guess that
    it was by some New Wave author, but even that is less than sure.

    A second thing, if somebody else has read it -- what was the point
    of this story?

    --
    Michael F. Stemper
    Outside of a dog, a book is man's best friend.
    Inside of a dog, it's too dark to read.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jaimie Vandenbergh@21:1/5 to michael.stemper@gmail.com on Fri Oct 27 13:59:57 2023
    On 27 Oct 2023 at 14:34:41 BST, ""Michael F. Stemper"" <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:

    Yesterday, I referred to a short story in which a giant's corpse washes
    up on a beach. For a day or two, the residents of the nearby community
    a reticent about approaching it. Then, they start posing for pictures
    next to it; then climbing on top of it.

    Somebody cuts off a part of its body for a museum. Scavenging increases, until finally all that's left is a skeleton.

    Can anybody identify this? Given its depressing nature, I'd guess that
    it was by some New Wave author, but even that is less than sure.

    A second thing, if somebody else has read it -- what was the point
    of this story?

    The Drowned Giant, J G Ballard. Recently animated as part of Love, Death
    and Robots tv series.

    I couldn't discern any intentional point to it.

    Cheers - Jaimie
    --
    IIS is still popular in the public sector, where the two
    highest priorities in IT are unfitness for purpose
    and high cost.
    -- Tony Houghton

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Michael F. Stemper@21:1/5 to Jaimie Vandenbergh on Fri Oct 27 11:58:25 2023
    On 27/10/2023 08.59, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
    On 27 Oct 2023 at 14:34:41 BST, ""Michael F. Stemper"" <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:

    Yesterday, I referred to a short story in which a giant's corpse washes
    up on a beach.

    Can anybody identify this? Given its depressing nature, I'd guess that
    it was by some New Wave author, but even that is less than sure.

    A second thing, if somebody else has read it -- what was the point
    of this story?

    The Drowned Giant, J G Ballard.

    Yeah, that's it. Thank you. I knew it was one of those depressing
    New Wave authors.

    According to its ISFDB listing, I have it in one anthology and one
    collection. The most recently I read either of them was in 2004,
    but it seems much more recent than that.

    I couldn't discern any intentional point to it.

    Okay, I thought that maybe I'd missed something.

    --
    Michael F. Stemper
    Indians scattered on dawn's highway bleeding;
    Ghosts crowd the young child's fragile eggshell mind.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From James Nicoll@21:1/5 to Michael F. Stemper on Fri Oct 27 19:17:56 2023
    In article <uhgq7h$2c6be$1@dont-email.me>,
    Michael F. Stemper <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 27/10/2023 08.59, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
    On 27 Oct 2023 at 14:34:41 BST, ""Michael F. Stemper""
    <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:

    Yesterday, I referred to a short story in which a giant's corpse washes
    up on a beach.

    Can anybody identify this? Given its depressing nature, I'd guess that
    it was by some New Wave author, but even that is less than sure.

    A second thing, if somebody else has read it -- what was the point
    of this story?

    The Drowned Giant, J G Ballard.

    Yeah, that's it. Thank you. I knew it was one of those depressing
    New Wave authors.

    That implies the existance of non-depressing NW authors.
    --
    My reviews can be found at http://jamesdavisnicoll.com/
    My tor pieces at https://www.tor.com/author/james-davis-nicoll/
    My Dreamwidth at https://james-davis-nicoll.dreamwidth.org/
    My patreon is at https://www.patreon.com/jamesdnicoll

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From BCFD36@21:1/5 to Jaimie Vandenbergh on Fri Oct 27 14:08:27 2023
    On 10/27/23 06:59, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
    On 27 Oct 2023 at 14:34:41 BST, ""Michael F. Stemper"" <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:

    Yesterday, I referred to a short story in which a giant's corpse washes
    up on a beach. For a day or two, the residents of the nearby community
    a reticent about approaching it. Then, they start posing for pictures
    next to it; then climbing on top of it.

    Somebody cuts off a part of its body for a museum. Scavenging increases,
    until finally all that's left is a skeleton.

    Can anybody identify this? Given its depressing nature, I'd guess that
    it was by some New Wave author, but even that is less than sure.

    A second thing, if somebody else has read it -- what was the point
    of this story?

    The Drowned Giant, J G Ballard. Recently animated as part of Love, Death
    and Robots tv series.

    I couldn't discern any intentional point to it.

    Cheers - Jaimie

    I remember this from many years ago, maybe a class in college. It was
    written in 1964 I think. Anyway, I didn't like it then, and I am pretty
    sure I wouldn't like it now. Depressing, bleak, etc.

    If you google "The Drowned Giant", there is some discussion on what the
    themes are and what they mean. Have fun.

    --
    Dave Scruggs
    Captain, Boulder Creek Fire (Retired)
    Sr. Software Engineer (Retired, mostly)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From William Hyde@21:1/5 to Michael F. Stemper on Fri Oct 27 14:39:24 2023
    On Friday, October 27, 2023 at 12:58:31 PM UTC-4, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
    On 27/10/2023 08.59, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
    On 27 Oct 2023 at 14:34:41 BST, ""Michael F. Stemper"" <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:

    Yesterday, I referred to a short story in which a giant's corpse washes >> up on a beach.
    Can anybody identify this? Given its depressing nature, I'd guess that
    it was by some New Wave author, but even that is less than sure.

    A second thing, if somebody else has read it -- what was the point
    of this story?

    The Drowned Giant, J G Ballard.
    Yeah, that's it. Thank you. I knew it was one of those depressing
    New Wave authors.

    According to its ISFDB listing, I have it in one anthology and one collection. The most recently I read either of them was in 2004,
    but it seems much more recent than that.
    I couldn't discern any intentional point to it.
    Okay, I thought that maybe I'd missed something.

    In a later book, I think perhaps "The Kindness of Women" Ballard's character talks
    a lot about dissecting his first corpse in medical school. When I read
    that it definitely brought "The Drowned Giant" to mind.

    His dissection was being done for a better purpose, at lest initially, but as he
    didn't go on in medical school that became questionable.

    William Hyde

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From William Hyde@21:1/5 to James Nicoll on Fri Oct 27 14:45:52 2023
    On Friday, October 27, 2023 at 3:18:01 PM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
    In article <uhgq7h$2c6be$1...@dont-email.me>,
    Michael F. Stemper <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 27/10/2023 08.59, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
    On 27 Oct 2023 at 14:34:41 BST, ""Michael F. Stemper""
    <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:

    Yesterday, I referred to a short story in which a giant's corpse washes >>> up on a beach.

    Can anybody identify this? Given its depressing nature, I'd guess that >>> it was by some New Wave author, but even that is less than sure.

    A second thing, if somebody else has read it -- what was the point
    of this story?

    The Drowned Giant, J G Ballard.

    Yeah, that's it. Thank you. I knew it was one of those depressing
    New Wave authors.

    That implies the existance of non-depressing NW authors.

    That would be Barrington Bailey.

    Of course, as there is no actual definition of the New Wave, other authors could be mentioned, but I selected Bailey as he was a mainstay of
    New Worlds Quarterly, which made Orbit look like Analog (he said, with
    some exaggeration).

    William Hyde

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ted Nolan @21:1/5 to wthyde1953@gmail.com on Fri Oct 27 21:48:42 2023
    In article <b47f45c5-831c-4670-a3a8-74618ca49328n@googlegroups.com>,
    William Hyde <wthyde1953@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Friday, October 27, 2023 at 3:18:01 PM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
    In article <uhgq7h$2c6be$1...@dont-email.me>,
    Michael F. Stemper <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 27/10/2023 08.59, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
    On 27 Oct 2023 at 14:34:41 BST, ""Michael F. Stemper""
    <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:

    Yesterday, I referred to a short story in which a giant's corpse washes >> >>> up on a beach.

    Can anybody identify this? Given its depressing nature, I'd guess that >> >>> it was by some New Wave author, but even that is less than sure.

    A second thing, if somebody else has read it -- what was the point
    of this story?

    The Drowned Giant, J G Ballard.

    Yeah, that's it. Thank you. I knew it was one of those depressing
    New Wave authors.

    That implies the existance of non-depressing NW authors.

    That would be Barrington Bailey.

    Of course, as there is no actual definition of the New Wave, other authors >could be mentioned, but I selected Bailey as he was a mainstay of
    New Worlds Quarterly, which made Orbit look like Analog (he said, with
    some exaggeration).

    William Hyde


    At one time _The Fall of Chronopolis_ was one of my favorite books.
    Probably time for a re-read.

    Some of the "Orbit" stuff got above slit-your-wrists-now grim. "Mother to
    the World" was nice, Lafferty of course, and the one about the space whale.
    --
    columbiaclosings.com
    What's not in Columbia anymore..

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Hamish Laws@21:1/5 to James Nicoll on Fri Oct 27 20:54:52 2023
    On Saturday, October 28, 2023 at 6:18:01 AM UTC+11, James Nicoll wrote:
    In article <uhgq7h$2c6be$1...@dont-email.me>,
    Michael F. Stemper <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 27/10/2023 08.59, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
    On 27 Oct 2023 at 14:34:41 BST, ""Michael F. Stemper""
    <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:

    Yesterday, I referred to a short story in which a giant's corpse washes >>> up on a beach.

    Can anybody identify this? Given its depressing nature, I'd guess that >>> it was by some New Wave author, but even that is less than sure.

    A second thing, if somebody else has read it -- what was the point
    of this story?

    The Drowned Giant, J G Ballard.

    Yeah, that's it. Thank you. I knew it was one of those depressing
    New Wave authors.

    That implies the existance of non-depressing NW authors.

    does Zelazny count?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ahasuerus@21:1/5 to William Hyde on Fri Oct 27 20:40:07 2023
    On Friday, October 27, 2023 at 5:45:55 PM UTC-4, William Hyde wrote:
    On Friday, October 27, 2023 at 3:18:01 PM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
    In article <uhgq7h$2c6be$1...@dont-email.me>,
    Michael F. Stemper <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 27/10/2023 08.59, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
    On 27 Oct 2023 at 14:34:41 BST, ""Michael F. Stemper""
    <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:

    Yesterday, I referred to a short story in which a giant's corpse washes
    up on a beach.

    Can anybody identify this? Given its depressing nature, I'd guess that >>> it was by some New Wave author, but even that is less than sure.

    A second thing, if somebody else has read it -- what was the point
    of this story?

    The Drowned Giant, J G Ballard.

    Yeah, that's it. Thank you. I knew it was one of those depressing
    New Wave authors.

    That implies the existance of non-depressing NW authors.
    That would be Barrington Bailey.

    The fact that Barrington J. Bayley's last name is misspelled so often
    suggests that Adrian Czajkowski's publishers may have been right to
    alter the spelling of his name.

    Of course, as there is no actual definition of the New Wave, other authors could be mentioned, but I selected Bailey as he was a mainstay of
    New Worlds Quarterly, which made Orbit look like Analog (he said, with
    some exaggeration).

    He was -- arguably -- to the British New Wave what van Vogt had been to
    the original Golden Age: odd and unlike other first tier authors, but still
    a significant part of the phenomenon.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Moriarty@21:1/5 to Hamish Laws on Sat Oct 28 00:24:40 2023
    On Saturday, October 28, 2023 at 2:54:55 PM UTC+11, Hamish Laws wrote:
    On Saturday, October 28, 2023 at 6:18:01 AM UTC+11, James Nicoll wrote:
    In article <uhgq7h$2c6be$1...@dont-email.me>,
    Michael F. Stemper <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 27/10/2023 08.59, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
    On 27 Oct 2023 at 14:34:41 BST, ""Michael F. Stemper""
    <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:

    Yesterday, I referred to a short story in which a giant's corpse washes
    up on a beach.

    Can anybody identify this? Given its depressing nature, I'd guess that >>> it was by some New Wave author, but even that is less than sure.

    A second thing, if somebody else has read it -- what was the point
    of this story?

    The Drowned Giant, J G Ballard.

    Yeah, that's it. Thank you. I knew it was one of those depressing
    New Wave authors.

    That implies the existance of non-depressing NW authors.
    does Zelazny count?

    Or Moorcock?

    -Moriarty

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris Buckley@21:1/5 to Moriarty on Sat Oct 28 12:50:51 2023
    On 2023-10-28, Moriarty <blues95@ivillage.com> wrote:
    On Saturday, October 28, 2023 at 2:54:55 PM UTC+11, Hamish Laws wrote:
    On Saturday, October 28, 2023 at 6:18:01 AM UTC+11, James Nicoll wrote:
    In article <uhgq7h$2c6be$1...@dont-email.me>,
    Michael F. Stemper <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 27/10/2023 08.59, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
    On 27 Oct 2023 at 14:34:41 BST, ""Michael F. Stemper""
    <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:

    Yesterday, I referred to a short story in which a giant's corpse washes
    up on a beach.

    Can anybody identify this? Given its depressing nature, I'd guess that >> > >>> it was by some New Wave author, but even that is less than sure.

    A second thing, if somebody else has read it -- what was the point
    of this story?

    The Drowned Giant, J G Ballard.

    Yeah, that's it. Thank you. I knew it was one of those depressing
    New Wave authors.

    That implies the existance of non-depressing NW authors.
    does Zelazny count?

    Or Moorcock?

    Moorcock is definitely a NW author, though he has non-NW books. Pretty
    much everything of his I consider NW is depressing, though I'm not
    sure there's not a definitional problem there. I would say almost all
    of his books that showed experimentation and/or deeper intellectual thought were depressing and NW. The majority of his early Eternal Champions were standard fantasy and non-NW, but then later Eternal Champions like
    Cornelius were strongly NW.

    I tried to collect Moorcock's Eternal Champions in the early 1970's, but
    gave up, very thankfully, by the mid 70s! He kept on revising and reissuing
    all of his books multiple times in the next 3 decades, but I realized that apart from Elric, I really didn't want to re-read any of his books.
    --
    Chris

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul S Person@21:1/5 to michael.stemper@gmail.com on Sat Oct 28 09:05:07 2023
    On Fri, 27 Oct 2023 11:58:25 -0500, "Michael F. Stemper" <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:

    On 27/10/2023 08.59, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
    On 27 Oct 2023 at 14:34:41 BST, ""Michael F. Stemper""
    <michael.stemper@gmail.com> wrote:

    Yesterday, I referred to a short story in which a giant's corpse washes
    up on a beach.

    Can anybody identify this? Given its depressing nature, I'd guess that
    it was by some New Wave author, but even that is less than sure.

    A second thing, if somebody else has read it -- what was the point
    of this story?

    The Drowned Giant, J G Ballard.

    Yeah, that's it. Thank you. I knew it was one of those depressing
    New Wave authors.

    According to its ISFDB listing, I have it in one anthology and one >collection. The most recently I read either of them was in 2004,
    but it seems much more recent than that.

    I couldn't discern any intentional point to it.

    Okay, I thought that maybe I'd missed something.

    I don't think I've ever read it.

    I suspect that I haven't missed anything.
    --
    "Here lies the Tuscan poet Aretino,
    Who evil spoke of everyone but God,
    Giving as his excuse, 'I never knew him.'"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From William Hyde@21:1/5 to Chris Buckley on Sat Oct 28 12:53:05 2023
    On Saturday, October 28, 2023 at 8:50:56 AM UTC-4, Chris Buckley wrote:
    On 2023-10-28, Moriarty <blu...@ivillage.com> wrote:
    On Saturday, October 28, 2023 at 2:54:55 PM UTC+11, Hamish Laws wrote:
    On Saturday, October 28, 2023 at 6:18:01 AM UTC+11, James Nicoll wrote: >> > In article <uhgq7h$2c6be$1...@dont-email.me>,
    Michael F. Stemper <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 27/10/2023 08.59, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
    On 27 Oct 2023 at 14:34:41 BST, ""Michael F. Stemper""
    <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:

    Yesterday, I referred to a short story in which a giant's corpse washes
    up on a beach.

    Can anybody identify this? Given its depressing nature, I'd guess that
    it was by some New Wave author, but even that is less than sure.

    A second thing, if somebody else has read it -- what was the point >> > >>> of this story?

    The Drowned Giant, J G Ballard.

    Yeah, that's it. Thank you. I knew it was one of those depressing
    New Wave authors.

    That implies the existance of non-depressing NW authors.
    does Zelazny count?

    Or Moorcock?
    Moorcock is definitely a NW author, though he has non-NW books. Pretty
    much everything of his I consider NW is depressing, though I'm not
    sure there's not a definitional problem there. I would say almost all
    of his books that showed experimentation and/or deeper intellectual thought were depressing and NW.

    I thought that his later works, in the 80s and after, had strong NW elements but
    I didn't think of them as depressing (OTOH I didn't find "Behold the Man" to be depressing either, and others probably differ there). But I've only read one or two of them.


    The majority of his early Eternal Champions were
    standard fantasy and non-NW,

    He did mention that much of this was Faustian, and certainly the Elric books are not particularly cheerful.


    but then later Eternal Champions like
    Cornelius were strongly NW.

    When a book has a title like "The Condition of Muzak", you know it's NW. And you
    know that the author has some background in Literature and a sense of humour.

    I tried to collect Moorcock's Eternal Champions in the early 1970's, but gave up, very thankfully, by the mid 70s!

    I went through a similar process. I got the impression that Tanelorn was somehow
    the climax of the series, but when Elric finally got there, it was clearly not the
    end. As this was, by my count at the time, the twenty-seventh EC book, I gave up.

    Decades later I picked up the Von Beck books, which I quite enjoyed.

    William Hyde

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From William Hyde@21:1/5 to Ahasuerus on Sat Oct 28 12:41:04 2023
    On Friday, October 27, 2023 at 11:40:10 PM UTC-4, Ahasuerus wrote:
    On Friday, October 27, 2023 at 5:45:55 PM UTC-4, William Hyde wrote:
    On Friday, October 27, 2023 at 3:18:01 PM UTC-4, James Nicoll wrote:
    In article <uhgq7h$2c6be$1...@dont-email.me>,
    Michael F. Stemper <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:
    On 27/10/2023 08.59, Jaimie Vandenbergh wrote:
    On 27 Oct 2023 at 14:34:41 BST, ""Michael F. Stemper""
    <michael...@gmail.com> wrote:

    Yesterday, I referred to a short story in which a giant's corpse washes
    up on a beach.

    Can anybody identify this? Given its depressing nature, I'd guess that
    it was by some New Wave author, but even that is less than sure.

    A second thing, if somebody else has read it -- what was the point >>> of this story?

    The Drowned Giant, J G Ballard.

    Yeah, that's it. Thank you. I knew it was one of those depressing
    New Wave authors.

    That implies the existance of non-depressing NW authors.
    That would be Barrington Bailey.
    The fact that Barrington J. Bayley's last name is misspelled so often suggests

    Arrgh!

    My excuse must be that I confused him with Hilary Bailey.

    Yeah, that's the ticket.

    that Adrian Czajkowski's publishers may have been right to
    alter the spelling of his name.

    I've seen Clarke misspelled.

    Of course, as there is no actual definition of the New Wave, other authors could be mentioned, but I selected Bailey as he was a mainstay of
    New Worlds Quarterly, which made Orbit look like Analog (he said, with some exaggeration).
    He was -- arguably -- to the British New Wave what van Vogt had been to
    the original Golden Age: odd and unlike other first tier authors, but still a significant part of the phenomenon.

    That is an apt description.

    William Hyde

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Robert Carnegie@21:1/5 to Michael F. Stemper on Sat Oct 28 15:17:48 2023
    On Friday, 27 October 2023 at 14:34:47 UTC+1, Michael F. Stemper wrote:
    Yesterday, I referred to a short story in which a giant's corpse washes
    up on a beach. For a day or two, the residents of the nearby community
    a reticent about approaching it. Then, they start posing for pictures
    next to it; then climbing on top of it.

    Somebody cuts off a part of its body for a museum. Scavenging increases, until finally all that's left is a skeleton.

    Can anybody identify this? Given its depressing nature, I'd guess that
    it was by some New Wave author, but even that is less than sure.

    A second thing, if somebody else has read it -- what was the point
    of this story?

    Familiarity breeds contempt - even with
    something extraordinary and terrifying?

    I may be misremembering a remark that
    my brain attributes to Clive James reviewing
    British television roughly between 1960-70.
    That it used to be a big deal as entertainment
    whenever a dead whale washed up on a beach -
    mostly not at that time, but earlier.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)