From Dubious Theory to Science Fiction Staple: Five Hollow-Earth Stories
Derided by Martin Gardner, Hollow Earths are both manifestly ludicrous
and the stuff of adventure!
https://www.tor.com/2023/10/23/from-dubious-theory-to-science-fiction-staple-five-hollow-earth-stories/
jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
From Dubious Theory to Science Fiction Staple: Five Hollow-Earth Stories
Derided by Martin Gardner, Hollow Earths are both manifestly ludicrous
and the stuff of adventure!
https://www.tor.com/2023/10/23/from-dubious-theory-to-science-fiction-staple-five-hollow-earth-stories/The first "hollow earth" story I read was _Hidden World_, by Stanton A. Coblentz.
I think I picked that up from a rack at K-Mart sometime in the early 70's.
On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 11:30:56 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:A. Coblentz.
The first "hollow earth" story I read was _Hidden World_, by Stanton
From Dubious Theory to Science Fiction Staple: Five Hollow-Earth Stories
Derided by Martin Gardner, Hollow Earths are both manifestly ludicrous
and the stuff of adventure!
https://www.tor.com/2023/10/23/from-dubious-theory-to-science-fiction-staple-five-hollow-earth-stories/
I think I picked that up from a rack at K-Mart sometime in the early 70's.
I think 'hollow earth' stories can be divided into two catagories:
1. The Earth is a literal hollow sphere, and you can walk around on the inside.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HollowWorld
2. There are Really Big Caves down there, big enough to contain civilizations. >https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BeneathTheEarth
Type 1 is pretty rare; aside from anything else, there would be no
gravity on the inside, and
things will float around in the void. ERB's Pellucidar is an example,
along with Rudy
Rucker's 'The Hollow Earth'.
Type 2 is more common. The earliest example I can think of is 'The
Coming Race' by
Edward Bulwer-Lytton (of 'It was a dark and stormy night...' fame).
Verne's 'Journey to the
Center of the Earth' is another, and I think I've probably read at
least half a dozen books
using the trope.
From Dubious Theory to Science Fiction Staple: Five Hollow-Earth Stories
Derided by Martin Gardner, Hollow Earths are both manifestly ludicrous
and the stuff of adventure!
https://www.tor.com/2023/10/23/from-dubious-theory-to-science-fiction-staple-five-hollow-earth-stories/
James Nicoll wrote:
From Dubious Theory to Science Fiction Staple: Five Hollow-Earth Stories
Derided by Martin Gardner, Hollow Earths are both manifestly ludicrous
and the stuff of adventure!
https://www.tor.com/2023/10/23/from-dubious-theory-to-science-fiction-staple-five-hollow-earth-stories/
My first, and still one of my favorites, was Verne's
Journey to the Centre of the Earth.
One of Banks' Culture novels -- Hang on...<google>...ah yes,
it's Matter -- features a Shellworld, which is an artificial world
that is constructed as several layers of concentric shells, and
some of the book is spent going ever deeper toward the center.
On Monday, 23 October 2023 at 20:59:49 UTC+1, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 11:30:56 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:Stanton A. Coblentz.
jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
The first "hollow earth" story I read was _Hidden World_, by
From Dubious Theory to Science Fiction Staple: Five Hollow-Earth Stories >> > >
Derided by Martin Gardner, Hollow Earths are both manifestly ludicrous
and the stuff of adventure!
https://www.tor.com/2023/10/23/from-dubious-theory-to-science-fiction-staple-five-hollow-earth-stories/
the inside.
I think I picked that up from a rack at K-Mart sometime in the early 70's. >> I think 'hollow earth' stories can be divided into two catagories:
1. The Earth is a literal hollow sphere, and you can walk around on
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HollowWorldgravity on the inside, and
2. There are Really Big Caves down there, big enough to contain >civilizations.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BeneathTheEarth
Type 1 is pretty rare; aside from anything else, there would be no
things will float around in the void. ERB's Pellucidar is an example,along with Rudy
Rucker's 'The Hollow Earth'.Coming Race' by
Type 2 is more common. The earliest example I can think of is 'The
Edward Bulwer-Lytton (of 'It was a dark and stormy night...' fame).Verne's 'Journey to the
Center of the Earth' is another, and I think I've probably read atleast half a dozen books
using the trope.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth> covers both
types, including fiction.
Not included there, there's ><:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom_Empire>
in which " a singing cowboy stumbles upon an ancient
subterranean civilization living beneath his 'Radio Ranch'."
Do we count <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraggle_Rock>?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trap_Door> ?
Perhaps just a variation on Type 1 is that this /is/
the inside of the Earth-sphere which is a vacant
bubble inside possibly an infinite volume of rock.
No story is listed for that model, but apparently
an actual extinct American cult from Victorian
times, The Koreshan Unity, went for it.
In article <e5f894df-f7c8-4fcc...@googlegroups.com>,
Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
On Monday, 23 October 2023 at 20:59:49 UTC+1, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 11:30:56 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote: >> > jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:Stanton A. Coblentz.
The first "hollow earth" story I read was _Hidden World_, by
From Dubious Theory to Science Fiction Staple: Five Hollow-Earth Stories
Derided by Martin Gardner, Hollow Earths are both manifestly ludicrous >> > >and the stuff of adventure!
https://www.tor.com/2023/10/23/from-dubious-theory-to-science-fiction-staple-five-hollow-earth-stories/
the inside.I think 'hollow earth' stories can be divided into two catagories:
I think I picked that up from a rack at K-Mart sometime in the early 70's.
1. The Earth is a literal hollow sphere, and you can walk around on
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HollowWorldleast half a dozen books
2. There are Really Big Caves down there, big enough to contain >civilizations.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BeneathTheEarth
Type 1 is pretty rare; aside from anything else, there would be no >gravity on the inside, and
things will float around in the void. ERB's Pellucidar is an example, >along with Rudy
Rucker's 'The Hollow Earth'.
Type 2 is more common. The earliest example I can think of is 'The >Coming Race' by
Edward Bulwer-Lytton (of 'It was a dark and stormy night...' fame). >Verne's 'Journey to the
Center of the Earth' is another, and I think I've probably read at
using the trope.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth> covers both
types, including fiction.
Not included there, there's ><:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom_Empire>
in which " a singing cowboy stumbles upon an ancient
subterranean civilization living beneath his 'Radio Ranch'."
Do we count <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraggle_Rock>?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trap_Door> ?
Perhaps just a variation on Type 1 is that this /is/That would be the work of Cyrus Reed Teed, mentioned in the
the inside of the Earth-sphere which is a vacant
bubble inside possibly an infinite volume of rock.
No story is listed for that model, but apparently
an actual extinct American cult from Victorian
times, The Koreshan Unity, went for it.
essay.
On Tuesday, 24 October 2023 at 20:29:11 UTC+1, James Nicoll wrote:
In article <e5f894df-f7c8-4fcc...@googlegroups.com>,Hollow-Earth Stories
Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
On Monday, 23 October 2023 at 20:59:49 UTC+1, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 11:30:56 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote: >> >> > jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
From Dubious Theory to Science Fiction Staple: Five
early 70's.Stanton A. Coblentz.
Derided by Martin Gardner, Hollow Earths are both manifestly ludicrous >> >> > >and the stuff of adventure!
https://www.tor.com/2023/10/23/from-dubious-theory-to-science-fiction-staple-five-hollow-earth-stories/
The first "hollow earth" story I read was _Hidden World_, by
I think I picked that up from a rack at K-Mart sometime in the
That would be the work of Cyrus Reed Teed, mentioned in theI think 'hollow earth' stories can be divided into two catagories:the inside.
1. The Earth is a literal hollow sphere, and you can walk around on
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HollowWorldcivilizations.
2. There are Really Big Caves down there, big enough to contain
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BeneathTheEarthgravity on the inside, and
Type 1 is pretty rare; aside from anything else, there would be no
things will float around in the void. ERB's Pellucidar is an example,along with Rudy
Rucker's 'The Hollow Earth'.Coming Race' by
Type 2 is more common. The earliest example I can think of is 'The
Edward Bulwer-Lytton (of 'It was a dark and stormy night...' fame).Verne's 'Journey to the
Center of the Earth' is another, and I think I've probably read atleast half a dozen books
using the trope.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hollow_Earth> covers both
types, including fiction.
Not included there, there's
<:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phantom_Empire>
in which " a singing cowboy stumbles upon an ancient
subterranean civilization living beneath his 'Radio Ranch'."
Do we count <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fraggle_Rock>?
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Trap_Door> ?
Perhaps just a variation on Type 1 is that this /is/
the inside of the Earth-sphere which is a vacant
bubble inside possibly an infinite volume of rock.
No story is listed for that model, but apparently
an actual extinct American cult from Victorian
times, The Koreshan Unity, went for it.
essay.
Teed indeed. But if you mentioned an Earth that
we're on the inside of, I missed it, although your
column illustration seems to represent one.
But I think you said that the column pictures
aren't yours - or have I got that wrong?
On Monday, October 23, 2023 at 11:30:56 AM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
jdni...@panix.com (James Nicoll) writes:
From Dubious Theory to Science Fiction Staple: Five Hollow-Earth Stories
Derided by Martin Gardner, Hollow Earths are both manifestly ludicrous >and the stuff of adventure!
https://www.tor.com/2023/10/23/from-dubious-theory-to-science-fiction-staple-five-hollow-earth-stories/The first "hollow earth" story I read was _Hidden World_, by Stanton A. Coblentz.
I think I picked that up from a rack at K-Mart sometime in the early 70's.I think 'hollow earth' stories can be divided into two catagories:
1. The Earth is a literal hollow sphere, and you can walk around on the inside.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HollowWorld
2. There are Really Big Caves down there, big enough to contain civilizations.
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BeneathTheEarth
Type 1 is pretty rare; aside from anything else, there would be no gravity on the inside, and
things will float around in the void. ERB's Pellucidar is an example, along with Rudy
Rucker's 'The Hollow Earth'.
Type 2 is more common. The earliest example I can think of is 'The Coming Race' by
Edward Bulwer-Lytton (of 'It was a dark and stormy night...' fame). Verne's 'Journey to the
Center of the Earth' is another, and I think I've probably read at least half a dozen books
using the trope.
Tony Nance wrote:
James Nicoll wrote:
From Dubious Theory to Science Fiction Staple: Five Hollow-Earth Stories >>>
Derided by Martin Gardner, Hollow Earths are both manifestly ludicrous
and the stuff of adventure!
https://www.tor.com/2023/10/23/from-dubious-theory-to-science-fiction-staple-five-hollow-earth-stories/
My first, and still one of my favorites, was Verne's
Journey to the Centre of the Earth.
One of Banks' Culture novels -- Hang on...<google>...ah yes,
it's Matter -- features a Shellworld, which is an artificial world
that is constructed as several layers of concentric shells, and
some of the book is spent going ever deeper toward the center.
Betwixt John Galt's gusty grandiloquent monologue in _Atlas Shrugged_
<https://amberandchaos.net/?page_id=73>
Don wrote:
Tony Nance wrote:
James Nicoll wrote:
From Dubious Theory to Science Fiction Staple: Five Hollow-Earth Stories >>>>
Derided by Martin Gardner, Hollow Earths are both manifestly ludicrous >>>> and the stuff of adventure!
https://www.tor.com/2023/10/23/from-dubious-theory-to-science-fiction-staple-five-hollow-earth-stories/
My first, and still one of my favorites, was Verne's
Journey to the Centre of the Earth.
One of Banks' Culture novels -- Hang on...<google>...ah yes,
it's Matter -- features a Shellworld, which is an artificial world
that is constructed as several layers of concentric shells, and
some of the book is spent going ever deeper toward the center.
Betwixt John Galt's gusty grandiloquent monologue in _Atlas Shrugged_
<https://amberandchaos.net/?page_id=73>
I'm sorry, but I don't see how that relates to "hollow Earth".
Michael F. Stemper wrote:
Don wrote:
Tony Nance wrote:
James Nicoll wrote:
From Dubious Theory to Science Fiction Staple: Five Hollow-Earth Stories
Derided by Martin Gardner, Hollow Earths are both manifestly ludicrous >>>> and the stuff of adventure!
https://www.tor.com/2023/10/23/from-dubious-theory-to-science-fiction-staple-five-hollow-earth-stories/
My first, and still one of my favorites, was Verne's
Journey to the Centre of the Earth.
One of Banks' Culture novels -- Hang on...<google>...ah yes,
it's Matter -- features a Shellworld, which is an artificial world
that is constructed as several layers of concentric shells, and
some of the book is spent going ever deeper toward the center.
Betwixt John Galt's gusty grandiloquent monologue in _Atlas Shrugged_
<https://amberandchaos.net/?page_id=73>
I'm sorry, but I don't see how that relates to "hollow Earth".John Galt's gusty grandiloquent monologe, the tedious Thomas Cardif ceaseless character arc, and the hellacious Horror heavenly body story
share similar symptoms of logorrhea. They're too windy. They go on and
on. All apparently aspire to become tl;dnr (too long; did not read).
It's understandable how words will spew forth from a hungry Perry
Rhodan author under the pressure of a weekly deadline. Conversely, Ayn
Rand seems to experience a cathartic moment when all of her bottled-up philosophy expresses itself as words on a page.
Danke,
On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 11:10:56?AM UTC-4, Don wrote:
Michael F. Stemper wrote:
Don wrote:John Galt's gusty grandiloquent monologe, the tedious Thomas Cardif
Tony Nance wrote:
James Nicoll wrote:
From Dubious Theory to Science Fiction Staple: Five Hollow-Earth Stories
Derided by Martin Gardner, Hollow Earths are both manifestly ludicrous >> >>>> and the stuff of adventure!
https://www.tor.com/2023/10/23/from-dubious-theory-to-science-fiction-staple-five-hollow-earth-stories/
My first, and still one of my favorites, was Verne's
Journey to the Centre of the Earth.
One of Banks' Culture novels -- Hang on...<google>...ah yes,
it's Matter -- features a Shellworld, which is an artificial world
that is constructed as several layers of concentric shells, and
some of the book is spent going ever deeper toward the center.
Betwixt John Galt's gusty grandiloquent monologue in _Atlas Shrugged_
<https://amberandchaos.net/?page_id=73>
I'm sorry, but I don't see how that relates to "hollow Earth".
ceaseless character arc, and the hellacious Horror heavenly body story
share similar symptoms of logorrhea. They're too windy. They go on and
on. All apparently aspire to become tl;dnr (too long; did not read).
It's understandable how words will spew forth from a hungry Perry
Rhodan author under the pressure of a weekly deadline. Conversely, Ayn
Rand seems to experience a cathartic moment when all of her bottled-up
philosophy expresses itself as words on a page.
Danke,
Both of Rand's most popular books 'The Fountainhead' and 'Atlas Shrugged' >have the plot stop dead about 3/4 of the way through so the hero/protagonist >can lecture a large audience. The lecture in AS goes on for 10s of pages, the >one in TF a bit shorter.
These are so core to the author's estimation of the books that when TF was >made into a daily comic, the lecture was spread out over several weeks of >strips. Ayn Rand herself condensed it by about 90%, but it still took 25 strips
of 400-500 words each.
https://newideal.aynrand.org/the-illustrated-fountainhead-serializing-a-classic-novel/
On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 07:43:02 -0700 (PDT), "pete...@gmail.com" <petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 11:10:56?AM UTC-4, Don wrote:
I'm sorry, but I don't see how that relates to "hollow Earth".John Galt's gusty grandiloquent monologe, the tedious Thomas Cardif
ceaseless character arc, and the hellacious Horror heavenly body story
share similar symptoms of logorrhea. They're too windy. They go on and
on. All apparently aspire to become tl;dnr (too long; did not read).
It's understandable how words will spew forth from a hungry Perry
Rhodan author under the pressure of a weekly deadline. Conversely, Ayn
Rand seems to experience a cathartic moment when all of her bottled-up
philosophy expresses itself as words on a page.
Danke,
Both of Rand's most popular books 'The Fountainhead' and 'Atlas Shrugged'
have the plot stop dead about 3/4 of the way through so the hero/protagonist >> can lecture a large audience. The lecture in AS goes on for 10s of pages, the
one in TF a bit shorter.
The one in AS is, IIRC, a very complete exposition of Objectivism.
On 26/10/2023 10.43, Paul S Person wrote:
On Thu, 26 Oct 2023 07:43:02 -0700 (PDT), "pete...@gmail.com"
<petertrei@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, October 25, 2023 at 11:10:56?AM UTC-4, Don wrote:
I'm sorry, but I don't see how that relates to "hollow Earth".John Galt's gusty grandiloquent monologe, the tedious Thomas Cardif
ceaseless character arc, and the hellacious Horror heavenly body story >>>> share similar symptoms of logorrhea. They're too windy. They go on and >>>> on. All apparently aspire to become tl;dnr (too long; did not read).
It's understandable how words will spew forth from a hungry Perry
Rhodan author under the pressure of a weekly deadline. Conversely, Ayn >>>> Rand seems to experience a cathartic moment when all of her bottled-up >>>> philosophy expresses itself as words on a page.
Danke,
Both of Rand's most popular books 'The Fountainhead' and 'Atlas Shrugged' >>> have the plot stop dead about 3/4 of the way through so the hero/protagonist
can lecture a large audience. The lecture in AS goes on for 10s of pages, the
one in TF a bit shorter.
The one in AS is, IIRC, a very complete exposition of Objectivism.
I always assumed that Galt's speech was the reason for the book.
"Balph," "Tinky," "Kip," "Kip's Ma," "Chick," "Buzzy?" Such idiotic names, nick or not, make me laugh out loud. It also feels righteous for
Rand to give it to crony capitalism good and hard at every turn.
Then there's the Dagny "Ayn" Taggart "reverse harem" (Ted's words) romantic fantasy. Who knew _Atlas Shrugged_ was a romance with the three worthiest men on Earth all lusting for Dagny Ayn Mary Sue's hot,
"strictly business" body?
You'd think she'd fling a fork at little Eddie Willers, whose been
in love with her all of his life - as Dagny Ayn well knows. But no, Objectivism forbid she pity Eddie.
Rand minored in philosophy. Objectivism works well in Rand's
mostly childless fantasy world where everyone who matters is
relatively young and in good health.
Michael wrote:
Paul S Person wrote:
peter wrote:
Don wrote:
Michael wrote:
I'm sorry, but I don't see how that relates to "hollow Earth".John Galt's gusty grandiloquent monologe, the tedious Thomas Cardif
ceaseless character arc, and the hellacious Horror heavenly body story >>>>> share similar symptoms of logorrhea. They're too windy. They go on and >>>>> on. All apparently aspire to become tl;dnr (too long; did not read). >>>>> It's understandable how words will spew forth from a hungry Perry
Rhodan author under the pressure of a weekly deadline. Conversely, Ayn >>>>> Rand seems to experience a cathartic moment when all of her bottled-up >>>>> philosophy expresses itself as words on a page.
Danke,
Both of Rand's most popular books 'The Fountainhead' and 'Atlas Shrugged' >>>> have the plot stop dead about 3/4 of the way through so the hero/protagonist
can lecture a large audience. The lecture in AS goes on for 10s of pages, the
one in TF a bit shorter.
The one in AS is, IIRC, a very complete exposition of Objectivism.
I always assumed that Galt's speech was the reason for the book.
It would not surprise me if it was.
The AS films managed to avoid it as such, although a lot of the
philosphy appeared here and there or was directly illustrated. But
then, Ayn Rand wasn't around to supervise any more and the credits
clearly state that her Estate gave their permission but did not
participate.
Paul wrote:
Michael wrote:
Paul S Person wrote:
peter wrote:
Don wrote:
Michael wrote:
<snip>
I'm sorry, but I don't see how that relates to "hollow Earth".John Galt's gusty grandiloquent monologe, the tedious Thomas Cardif >>>>>> ceaseless character arc, and the hellacious Horror heavenly body story >>>>>> share similar symptoms of logorrhea. They're too windy. They go on and >>>>>> on. All apparently aspire to become tl;dnr (too long; did not read). >>>>>> It's understandable how words will spew forth from a hungry Perry
Rhodan author under the pressure of a weekly deadline. Conversely, Ayn >>>>>> Rand seems to experience a cathartic moment when all of her bottled-up >>>>>> philosophy expresses itself as words on a page.
Danke,
Both of Rand's most popular books 'The Fountainhead' and 'Atlas Shrugged' >>>>> have the plot stop dead about 3/4 of the way through so the hero/protagonist
can lecture a large audience. The lecture in AS goes on for 10s of pages, the
one in TF a bit shorter.
The one in AS is, IIRC, a very complete exposition of Objectivism.
I always assumed that Galt's speech was the reason for the book.
It would not surprise me if it was.
The AS films managed to avoid it as such, although a lot of the
philosphy appeared here and there or was directly illustrated. But
then, Ayn Rand wasn't around to supervise any more and the credits
clearly state that her Estate gave their permission but did not
participate.
Here's a canonical answer:
Because Atlas Shrugged is a long novel with a complex and abstract
theme, there is an ever-present danger of either focusing on the
speeches and abstract theme of the novel at the expense of the
story, or of focusing on the story's events while losing sight of
their abstract meaning. Both are errors.
<https://aynrand.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/11/Atlas-Shrugged-Teaching-Guide.pdf>
Regardless, it's my plebeian pleasure to focus on events at the expense
of exposition philosophic.
"Balph," "Tinky," "Kip," "Kip's Ma," "Chick," "Buzzy?" Such idiotic
names, nick or not, make me laugh out loud. It also feels righteous for
Rand to give it to crony capitalism good and hard at every turn.
Then there's the Dagny "Ayn" Taggart "reverse harem" (Ted's words)
romantic fantasy. Who knew _Atlas Shrugged_ was a romance with the three >worthiest men on Earth all lusting for Dagny Ayn Mary Sue's hot,
"strictly business" body?
You'd think she'd fling a fork at little Eddie Willers, whose been
in love with her all of his life - as Dagny Ayn well knows. But no, >Objectivism forbid she pity Eddie.
Rand minored in philosophy. Objectivism works well in Rand's--
mostly childless fantasy world where everyone who matters is
relatively young and in good health.
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