Pearls Before Swine: The Sun Always Rises in the East https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2023/05/02
On Wed, 03 May 2023 23:13:40 GMT, sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal)
wrote:
Lynn McGuire <lynnmc...@gmail.com> writes:
On 5/3/2023 5:16 PM, John W Kennedy wrote:
On 5/2/23 10:25 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
On 5/2/2023 5:13 PM, John W Kennedy wrote:
On 5/2/23 4:50 PM, Lynn McGuire wrote:
Pearls Before Swine: The Sun Always Rises in the East
   https://www.gocomics.com/pearlsbeforeswine/2023/05/02
Pigs going to have tough day if we ever have to move the Earth (see >>>>>> The Wandering Earth documentary,
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7605074/ ).
Lynn
Why spend bazillions on altering Earth’s angular momentum?
Watch the documentary. It is free on Netflix.
   https://www.netflix.com/title/81067760
Cool, the documentary has gotten a sequel ! Hopefully it will appear >>>> on Netflix soon.
   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yf3VreXwVpI
Lynn
Even from IMDB I can see how the science would be an embarrassment to
“Lost In Space�.
Such as ?
Have you calculated the energy required to make a drastic[*] change
in the earths orbit around the sun?
[*] Slowing the orbital velocity of the earth around the sun will
decrease the distance from the sun, increasing the orbital velocity
will increase the distance from the sun - yet the earth will still
orbit the sun. Leaving solar orbit completely (either attempting a solar slingshot[**]
by slowing and irregularizing orbit or using unimaginably vast thrust to leave
orbit) will require vast amounts of energy and will result in devastating seismic consequences on a dynamic planet like the earth. Simply changing the TSI (Total Solar Insolation) will likely result in an unhabitable planet as the planet would not be able to respond rapidly to a change
in the solar radiation balance.
[**] which likely will heat the planet beyond habitability during the flyby. Which is why it is considered "Science Fiction".
On Wednesday, May 10, 2023 at 11:03:20?AM UTC-4, Gerald Kelleher wrote:main fact for a round and rotating planet.
On Wednesday, May 10, 2023 at 1:57:34?PM UTC+1, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, May 10, 2023 at 3:01:38?AM UTC-4, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
On Wednesday, May 10, 2023 at 4:44:15?AM UTC+1, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, May 9, 2023 at 5:33:04?PM UTC-4, Gerald Kelleher wrote: >> > > > > .A necessary qualification
* The North and South poles don't rotate as a function of daily rotation as the rotational velocity at either pole is zero whereas it is 1037.5 mph at the Equator. We live in an era where they can't even get that value right thereby losing the
science fantasy but they don't want to live there, yet unfortunately, the education system supports a lot of fiction.Science fantasy only works when people are under no pretence that it is anything other than fantasy, however, science fiction is an extension of the scientific method as a subculture. For the slow learner, people like to go to the movies and enjoySo, you are unable to articulate your objections, and seem to be resorting to theThe north and south poles rotate at a rotational velocity of 15 degrees/hour. Linear velocityLet the nuisance who constantly interrupts genuine discussions in sci.astro.amateur explain to you on both counts why your statement is science fiction.
isn't the correct unit to use.
Pt
Appeal to Authority fallacy.
Fail.
pt
The rotational velocity at the North Pole is zero as velocity diminishes across latitude from a maximum velocity of 1037.5 mph at the Equator.
In any case, a few days ago you all believed the Sun tracks in one direction and now you know it tracks in opposite directions depending on what polar latitude the observer is standing on.
I think we're arguing with a person who will recast terminology to suit his argument.
There's simply no reason to continue.
I didn't come here to humiliate anyone yet know all too well that intellectual pretence is its own genre when it comes to enjoying science fiction while also enjoying the solar system and Earth science research. Isaac Newton blurred the distinctionthrough contrived manipulations of the antecedent works of the first Sun-centred astronomers hence the scramble to maintain the fiction that he saw further than those great astronomers.
In any case, the science here is that observers at the North and South polar locations watch the Sun track in opposite directions with one sunrise ( and sunset) on opposite Equinox, March at the North Pole and September at the South Pole-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okw6Mu3mxdM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okw6Mu3mxdM
When faced with that observation, the first question for reasonable readers is why when all observers at lower latitudes see the Sun come into view from one horizon and disappear from view on the opposite horizon?.
The science fact, as opposed to the science fiction of a tilting Earth, is that the Earth has two separate rotations to the Sun with the slower surface rotation parallel to the orbital plane as a function of the Earth's orbital motion.
Science fantasy is more enjoyable when appreciated along with reliable science facts.
I didn't come here to humiliate anyone yet know all too well that intellectual pretence is its own genre when it comes to enjoying science fiction while also enjoying the solar system and Earth science research. Isaac Newton blurred the distinctionthrough contrived manipulations of the antecedent works of the first Sun-centred astronomers hence the scramble to maintain the fiction that he saw further than those great astronomers.
In any case, the science here is that observers at the North and South polar locations watch the Sun track in opposite directions with one sunrise ( and sunset) on opposite Equinox, March at the North Pole and September at the South Pole-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okw6Mu3mxdM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okw6Mu3mxdM
When faced with that observation, the first question for reasonable readers is why when all observers at lower latitudes see the Sun come into view from one horizon and disappear from view on the opposite horizon?.
The science fact, as opposed to the science fiction of a tilting Earth, is that the Earth has two separate rotations to the Sun with the slower surface rotation parallel to the orbital plane as a function of the Earth's orbital motion.
Science fantasy is more enjoyable when appreciated along with reliable science facts.
On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 2:13:30 PM UTC-4, Gerald Kelleher wrote:through contrived manipulations of the antecedent works of the first Sun-centred astronomers hence the scramble to maintain the fiction that he saw further than those great astronomers.
I didn't come here to humiliate anyone yet know all too well that intellectual pretence is its own genre when it comes to enjoying science fiction while also enjoying the solar system and Earth science research. Isaac Newton blurred the distinction
Don't worry, you certainly haven't come close to humiliating anyone here. However, since this
is a writing-oriented group, I *will* point out that the above sentence should be taken out and
shot.
In any case, the science here is that observers at the North and South polar locations watch the Sun track in opposite directions with one sunrise ( and sunset) on opposite Equinox, March at the North Pole and September at the South Pole-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okw6Mu3mxdM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okw6Mu3mxdM
When faced with that observation, the first question for reasonable readers is why when all observers at lower latitudes see the Sun come into view from one horizon and disappear from view on the opposite horizon?.
The science fact, as opposed to the science fiction of a tilting Earth, is that the Earth has two separate rotations to the Sun with the slower surface rotation parallel to the orbital plane as a function of the Earth's orbital motion.Ahhh - now we see why you're posting here. You're getting laughed at by actual scientists,
for not understanding how polar inclination works.
Science fantasy is more enjoyable when appreciated along with reliable science facts.Its weird. I recall another poster, I think at least 15 years ago, who had a similar obsession.
with the Earth's rotation vis-a-vis its travel around the sun. He had a blindness to the
issue of frame of reference, counting rotations as passages of the sun overhead, vs counting as
passages of a distant star overhead.
Anyone else remember that guy?
We also had, much more recently, an Eastern European "astrophysicist" who tried to sell us
demonstrably incorrect interpretations of data from the DART mission. He didn't understand
the kinetics of impacts.
pt
This is why, in terms of human understanding and perception, the best I can do for you is that you are boring and mediocre as a group rather than creative individuals in literature. It has always been that way.sentence structure and spelling as that is the level I would expect from contributors here.
The blindness belongs to people who can't manage to associate one sunrise/noon/sunset cycle every 24 hours with one rotation of the Earth because they follow the dictates of a late 17th-century subculture.
" It is a fact not generally known that, owing to the difference between solar and sidereal time, the Earth rotates upon its axis once more often than there are 24-hour days in the year" NASA /Harvard
The fun goes out of science fantasy as the science fiction above has no basis in scientific fact even though it is the basis of the clockwork solar system or RA/Dec modelling as it is called.
If it is any help, there would be no enjoyment of science fantasy coming from an author who believed in a flat Earth so likewise you and your colleagues in terms of a solar/sidereal contrivance. Keep up the good work complaining about my grammar,
On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 2:13:30?PM UTC-4, Gerald Kelleher wrote:through contrived manipulations of the antecedent works of the first Sun-centred astronomers hence the scramble to maintain the fiction that he saw further than those great astronomers.
I didn't come here to humiliate anyone yet know all too well that intellectual pretence is its own genre when it comes to enjoying science fiction while also enjoying the solar system and Earth science research. Isaac Newton blurred the distinction
Don't worry, you certainly haven't come close to humiliating anyone here. However, since this
is a writing-oriented group, I *will* point out that the above sentence should be taken out and
shot.
In any case, the science here is that observers at the North and South polar locations watch the Sun track in opposite directions with one sunrise ( and sunset) on opposite Equinox, March at the North Pole and September at the South Pole-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okw6Mu3mxdM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okw6Mu3mxdM
When faced with that observation, the first question for reasonable readers is why when all observers at lower latitudes see the Sun come into view from one horizon and disappear from view on the opposite horizon?.
The science fact, as opposed to the science fiction of a tilting Earth, is that the Earth has two separate rotations to the Sun with the slower surface rotation parallel to the orbital plane as a function of the Earth's orbital motion.
Ahhh - now we see why you're posting here. You're getting laughed at by actual scientists,
for not understanding how polar inclination works.
Science fantasy is more enjoyable when appreciated along with reliable science facts.
Its weird. I recall another poster, I think at least 15 years ago, who had a similar obsession.
with the Earth's rotation vis-a-vis its travel around the sun. He had a blindness to the
issue of frame of reference, counting rotations as passages of the sun overhead, vs counting as
passages of a distant star overhead.
Anyone else remember that guy?
We also had, much more recently, an Eastern European "astrophysicist" who tried to sell us
demonstrably incorrect interpretations of data from the DART mission. He didn't understand
the kinetics of impacts.
On Thu, 11 May 2023 13:45:28 -0700 (PDT), "pete...@gmail.com" <pete...@gmail.com> wrote:through contrived manipulations of the antecedent works of the first Sun-centred astronomers hence the scramble to maintain the fiction that he saw further than those great astronomers.
On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 2:13:30?PM UTC-4, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
I didn't come here to humiliate anyone yet know all too well that intellectual pretence is its own genre when it comes to enjoying science fiction while also enjoying the solar system and Earth science research. Isaac Newton blurred the distinction
Don't worry, you certainly haven't come close to humiliating anyone here. However, since thisBoth sentences, I presume.
is a writing-oriented group, I *will* point out that the above sentence should be taken out and
shot.
I have /no/ idea what the second one is going on about. It sounds
similar to my occasionally-felt need to point out that Copernicus did
/not/ invent heliocentrism, as many appear to believe, but that the
Ancient Greeks were well aware that theory. Indeed, I once read an
essay (I suppose that is the term) relating Ptolemy to Copernicus that pointed out that Plato's demiurge appears to have created a
helicentric system whose planets had orbits whose ratios were not that
far off from the first five (or six, if they were aware of Saturn) of
ours.
On Friday, 12 May 2023 at 18:11:55 UTC+1, Paul S Person wrote:through contrived manipulations of the antecedent works of the first Sun-centred astronomers hence the scramble to maintain the fiction that he saw further than those great astronomers.
On Thu, 11 May 2023 13:45:28 -0700 (PDT), "pete...@gmail.com"
<pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 2:13:30?PM UTC-4, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
I didn't come here to humiliate anyone yet know all too well that intellectual pretence is its own genre when it comes to enjoying science fiction while also enjoying the solar system and Earth science research. Isaac Newton blurred the distinction
Both sentences, I presume.
Don't worry, you certainly haven't come close to humiliating anyone here. However, since this
is a writing-oriented group, I *will* point out that the above sentence should be taken out and
shot.
I have /no/ idea what the second one is going on about. It sounds
similar to my occasionally-felt need to point out that Copernicus did
/not/ invent heliocentrism, as many appear to believe, but that the
Ancient Greeks were well aware that theory. Indeed, I once read an
essay (I suppose that is the term) relating Ptolemy to Copernicus that
pointed out that Plato's demiurge appears to have created a
helicentric system whose planets had orbits whose ratios were not that
far off from the first five (or six, if they were aware of Saturn) of
ours.
You can see Saturn.
I'm currently having a couple of arguments with someone
on Quora in this area. One of his thoughts is that the
Earth's orbit can't be an ellipse because the tropics
don't have seasons as we understand them. Another is
that heliocentrism was really invented by Muslim astronomer
Ibn al-Shatir.
Oddly, I can't type "Ibn al-Shatir" correctly, so maybe my
computer is in the conspiracy if I'm not. What I think he
and Copernicus achieved, separately or not, is a revision
of Ptolemy's universe with epicycles on epicycles, to
something that mathematically corresponds with the
Earth and other planets moving in circles or ellipses
around the Sun. I say "mathematically" because most
commentaries, who may be quoting from each other,
insist that Ibn al-Shatir never claimed that Earth really
moves in that way. The actual work is beyond me,
but I think the position is that both Ibn al-Shatir and
Copernicus produced a "better" geocentric mathematical
model, but only Copernicus went further and substituted
a heliocentric model, although IIRC he still used circular
orbits.
I give less credit to the ancient Greeks because you can
find an ancient Greek philosopher who believed anything
at all or was alleged to, because they probably didn't do
the math, and because heliocentrists didn't win the argument
at the time. Ibn al-Shatir's system was overlooked too.
Huh, he just turned in front of my eyes into "Ibn al-Shakir".
On Sat, 13 May 2023 03:15:48 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie ><rja.carnegie@excite.com> wrote:distinction through contrived manipulations of the antecedent works of the first Sun-centred astronomers hence the scramble to maintain the fiction that he saw further than those great astronomers.
On Friday, 12 May 2023 at 18:11:55 UTC+1, Paul S Person wrote:
On Thu, 11 May 2023 13:45:28 -0700 (PDT), "pete...@gmail.com"
<pete...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, May 11, 2023 at 2:13:30?PM UTC-4, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
I didn't come here to humiliate anyone yet know all too well that intellectual pretence is its own genre when it comes to enjoying science fiction while also enjoying the solar system and Earth science research. Isaac Newton blurred the
Both sentences, I presume.
Don't worry, you certainly haven't come close to humiliating anyone here. However, since this
is a writing-oriented group, I *will* point out that the above sentence should be taken out and
shot.
I have /no/ idea what the second one is going on about. It sounds
similar to my occasionally-felt need to point out that Copernicus did
/not/ invent heliocentrism, as many appear to believe, but that the
Ancient Greeks were well aware that theory. Indeed, I once read an
essay (I suppose that is the term) relating Ptolemy to Copernicus that
pointed out that Plato's demiurge appears to have created a
helicentric system whose planets had orbits whose ratios were not that
far off from the first five (or six, if they were aware of Saturn) of
ours.
You can see Saturn.
I'm currently having a couple of arguments with someone
on Quora in this area. One of his thoughts is that the
Earth's orbit can't be an ellipse because the tropics
don't have seasons as we understand them. Another is
that heliocentrism was really invented by Muslim astronomer
Ibn al-Shatir.
Well, here's an article on him: >[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_al-Shatir]. And >[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ibn_al-Shatir#Possible_influence_on_Nicolaus_Copernicus]
discusses similarities to Copernicus.
Oddly, I can't type "Ibn al-Shatir" correctly, so maybe my
computer is in the conspiracy if I'm not. What I think he
and Copernicus achieved, separately or not, is a revision
of Ptolemy's universe with epicycles on epicycles, to
something that mathematically corresponds with the
Earth and other planets moving in circles or ellipses
around the Sun. I say "mathematically" because most
commentaries, who may be quoting from each other,
insist that Ibn al-Shatir never claimed that Earth really
moves in that way. The actual work is beyond me,
but I think the position is that both Ibn al-Shatir and
Copernicus produced a "better" geocentric mathematical
model, but only Copernicus went further and substituted
a heliocentric model, although IIRC he still used circular
orbits.
This is very confused and, frankly, it has been quite some time since
I read Copernicus, and still longer since Ptolemy. There are a lot of
works in the set /Great Books of the Western World/ chronologically
between the two.
Ptolemy was attempting to reconcile Aristotle's insistence that the
planets moved in circles (because only linear and circular motion
could go on forever) with reality. The purpose off all those circles
was to show how the planets, while moving eternally on circles,
nonetheless appeared to be doing no such thing.
Kind of like phlogiston. Or, for that matter, dark matter/dark energy.
You /know/ a theory is in trouble when it is necessary to invent new
and unobservable phenomena to "save the appearances".
As to Copernicus, there was no "or ellipses", except, of course, in
the sense that a circle is a degenerate ellipse. (Note that this use
of "degenerate" is mathematical and not a comment on the morality of >circles.) By putting the Sun at the center, he eliminated /its/
circles, gifted the Earth with circles, and replaced one circle in
each of the other planets with the main circle of the Earth. The moon,
since it actually /does/ go around the Earth, stayed much the same,
although a moving Earth may have required a few adjustments.
I give less credit to the ancient Greeks because you can
find an ancient Greek philosopher who believed anything
at all or was alleged to, because they probably didn't do
the math, and because heliocentrists didn't win the argument
at the time. Ibn al-Shatir's system was overlooked too.
Huh, he just turned in front of my eyes into "Ibn al-Shakir".
The only "Ancient Greek" that mattered for a long long time to
many/most people was Aristotle. And /he/ insisted that the Earth was
the center of the World. And that no other Worlds could exist, as the >elements that moved (by nature) to the center of the Earth would move
to the center of /our/ Earth, preventing the formation of any other
World.
Nonetheless, Plato's Demiurge can be portrayed as building a
heliocentric system of planets with orbits having ratios similar to
ours. Like atomism, heliocentrism was a part of Greek philosophy, but
not of Aristotle. Copernicus could have been familiar with these
alternates to Aristotle.
Bing is smart enough to match "ibn al-shakir" to "ibn al-shatir", BTW.
Goodness me, so much for creative and productive people here !.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_QKCpjNvh8
On cue, the Pleiades enter the range of the camera as the Earth continues its journey around the Sun-
https://sol24.net/data/html/SOHO/C3/96H/VIDEO/
The demonstration that the Earth orbits the Sun is dependent on the annual change in the position of the stars from an evening to morning appearance is so truly remarkable that all these visual narratives are ignored.
Mercury and Venus transition from both an evening to morning appearance as they move between the slower-moving Earth and the central Sun and from a morning appearance to an evening appearance as they pass behind the Sun. Jupiter and Saturn onlytransition from an evening to dawn appearance.
On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 3:56:30 AM UTC+10, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
Goodness me, so much for creative and productive people here !.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_QKCpjNvh8
On cue, the Pleiades enter the range of the camera as the Earth continues its journey around the Sun-
https://sol24.net/data/html/SOHO/C3/96H/VIDEO/
The demonstration that the Earth orbits the Sun is dependent on the annual change in the position of the stars from an evening to morning appearance is so truly remarkable that all these visual narratives are ignored.
WTF is denying that the earth orbits the sun?
transition from an evening to dawn appearance.
Mercury and Venus transition from both an evening to morning appearance as they move between the slower-moving Earth and the central Sun and from a morning appearance to an evening appearance as they pass behind the Sun. Jupiter and Saturn only
transition from an evening to dawn appearance.On Tuesday, May 16, 2023 at 3:56:30 AM UTC+10, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
Mercury and Venus transition from both an evening to morning appearance as they move between the slower-moving Earth and the central Sun and from a morning appearance to an evening appearance as they pass behind the Sun. Jupiter and Saturn only
I didn't bother going to those websites to passively watch videos
because I am too busy being creative and productive.
Goodness me, so much for creative and productive people here !.transition from an evening to dawn appearance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_QKCpjNvh8
On cue, the Pleiades enter the range of the camera as the Earth continues its journey around the Sun-
https://sol24.net/data/html/SOHO/C3/96H/VIDEO/
The demonstration that the Earth orbits the Sun is dependent on the annual change in the position of the stars from an evening to morning appearance is so truly remarkable that all these visual narratives are ignored.
Mercury and Venus transition from both an evening to morning appearance as they move between the slower-moving Earth and the central Sun and from a morning appearance to an evening appearance as they pass behind the Sun. Jupiter and Saturn only
On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 1:56:30 PM UTC-4, Gerald Kelleher wrote:transition from an evening to dawn appearance.
Goodness me, so much for creative and productive people here !.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_QKCpjNvh8
On cue, the Pleiades enter the range of the camera as the Earth continues its journey around the Sun-
https://sol24.net/data/html/SOHO/C3/96H/VIDEO/
The demonstration that the Earth orbits the Sun is dependent on the annual change in the position of the stars from an evening to morning appearance is so truly remarkable that all these visual narratives are ignored.
Mercury and Venus transition from both an evening to morning appearance as they move between the slower-moving Earth and the central Sun and from a morning appearance to an evening appearance as they pass behind the Sun. Jupiter and Saturn only
Gerald Kelleher Is the latest of a long series of crackpots we've seen in this newsgroup. He probably
won't be the last.
They suffer under the illusion that SF fans aren't aware of the difference between fiction and reality.
Pt
Goodness me, so much for creative and productive people here !.transition from an evening to dawn appearance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_QKCpjNvh8
On cue, the Pleiades enter the range of the camera as the Earth continues its journey around the Sun-
https://sol24.net/data/html/SOHO/C3/96H/VIDEO/
The demonstration that the Earth orbits the Sun is dependent on the annual change in the position of the stars from an evening to morning appearance is so truly remarkable that all these visual narratives are ignored.
Mercury and Venus transition from both an evening to morning appearance as they move between the slower-moving Earth and the central Sun and from a morning appearance to an evening appearance as they pass behind the Sun. Jupiter and Saturn only
Titus G wrote:
I didn't bother going to those websites to passively watch videos
because I am too busy being creative and productive.
Arguing on RASFW with an idiot is a pretty strong counter-argument to
that.
Brian (who doesn't even need to pretend to be productive these days)
On 5/16/2023 10:56 PM, pete...@gmail.com wrote:transition from an evening to dawn appearance.
On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 1:56:30 PM UTC-4, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
Goodness me, so much for creative and productive people here !.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_QKCpjNvh8
On cue, the Pleiades enter the range of the camera as the Earth continues its journey around the Sun-
https://sol24.net/data/html/SOHO/C3/96H/VIDEO/
The demonstration that the Earth orbits the Sun is dependent on the annual change in the position of the stars from an evening to morning appearance is so truly remarkable that all these visual narratives are ignored.
Mercury and Venus transition from both an evening to morning appearance as they move between the slower-moving Earth and the central Sun and from a morning appearance to an evening appearance as they pass behind the Sun. Jupiter and Saturn only
Gerald Kelleher Is the latest of a long series of crackpots we've seen in this newsgroup. He probably
won't be the last.
They suffer under the illusion that SF fans aren't aware of the difference between fiction and reality.
PtWait, the Earth is not flat ???
And doesn't the Sun revolve around the Earth ???
Lynn
On 16/05/23 17:31, Default User wrote:
Titus G wrote:
I didn't bother going to those websites to passively watch videos
because I am too busy being creative and productive.
Arguing on RASFW with an idiot is a pretty strong counter-argument
to that.
I deny arguing. I claim that I was creatively ridiculing.
On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 5:12:34 AM UTC+1, Lynn McGuire wrote:transition from an evening to dawn appearance.
On 5/16/2023 10:56 PM, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 1:56:30 PM UTC-4, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
Goodness me, so much for creative and productive people here !.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_QKCpjNvh8
On cue, the Pleiades enter the range of the camera as the Earth continues its journey around the Sun-
https://sol24.net/data/html/SOHO/C3/96H/VIDEO/
The demonstration that the Earth orbits the Sun is dependent on the annual change in the position of the stars from an evening to morning appearance is so truly remarkable that all these visual narratives are ignored.
Mercury and Venus transition from both an evening to morning appearance as they move between the slower-moving Earth and the central Sun and from a morning appearance to an evening appearance as they pass behind the Sun. Jupiter and Saturn only
people no more than I would flat Earth proponents? This is why I have kept the contributor to this forum who visits sci.astro.amateur at arm's length for many years so it is a subculture where the boundaries that divide science fact, science fiction andGerald Kelleher Is the latest of a long series of crackpots we've seen in this newsgroup. He probably
won't be the last.
They suffer under the illusion that SF fans aren't aware of the difference between fiction and reality.
PtWait, the Earth is not flat ???
And doesn't the Sun revolve around the Earth ???
LynnAh, if it isn't Miss Pearls to Swine.
The axiom for daily rotation was that the Sun appeared to move around the Earth by moving from horizon to horizon every 24 hours while the axiom for orbital motion is that the Sun took 365 days to move across the constellations-
" The 10th argument, taken from the periodic times, is as follows; the
the apparent movement of the Sun has 365 days which is the mean measure between Venus' period of 225 days and Mars' period of 687
days. Therefore does not the nature of things shout out loud that the circuits in which those 365 days are taken up have a mean position
between the circuits of Mars and Venus around the Sun and thus this is
not the circuit of the Sun around the Earth -for none of the primary
planets have their orbit arranged around the Earth, as Brahe admits, but the circuit of the Earth around the resting Sun, just as the other
planets, namely Mars and Venus, complete their own periods by running
around the Sun." Kepler
You unfortunate people, not that it matters to me, insist that one sunrise/noon/sunset cycle is not one rotation every 24 hours for historical reasons that are beyond your understanding. Who would get satisfaction from speaking with the solar/sidereal
In a word, mediocre.
On Wednesday, May 17, 2023 at 5:12:34 AM UTC+1, Lynn McGuire wrote:transition from an evening to dawn appearance.
On 5/16/2023 10:56 PM, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
On Monday, May 15, 2023 at 1:56:30 PM UTC-4, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
Goodness me, so much for creative and productive people here !.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m_QKCpjNvh8
On cue, the Pleiades enter the range of the camera as the Earth continues its journey around the Sun-
https://sol24.net/data/html/SOHO/C3/96H/VIDEO/
The demonstration that the Earth orbits the Sun is dependent on the annual change in the position of the stars from an evening to morning appearance is so truly remarkable that all these visual narratives are ignored.
Mercury and Venus transition from both an evening to morning appearance as they move between the slower-moving Earth and the central Sun and from a morning appearance to an evening appearance as they pass behind the Sun. Jupiter and Saturn only
Wait, the Earth is not flat ???
Gerald Kelleher Is the latest of a long series of crackpots we've seen in this newsgroup. He probably
won't be the last.
They suffer under the illusion that SF fans aren't aware of the difference between fiction and reality.
Pt
And doesn't the Sun revolve around the Earth ???
Lynn
Ah, if it isn't Miss Pearls to Swine.people no more than I would flat Earth proponents? This is why I have kept the contributor to this forum who visits sci.astro.amateur at arm's length for many years so it is a subculture where the boundaries that divide science fact, science fiction and
The axiom for daily rotation was that the Sun appeared to move around the Earth by moving from horizon to horizon every 24 hours while the axiom for orbital motion is that the Sun took 365 days to move across the constellations-
" The 10th argument, taken from the periodic times, is as follows; the
the apparent movement of the Sun has 365 days which is the mean measure between Venus' period of 225 days and Mars' period of 687
days. Therefore does not the nature of things shout out loud that the circuits in which those 365 days are taken up have a mean position
between the circuits of Mars and Venus around the Sun and thus this is
not the circuit of the Sun around the Earth -for none of the primary
planets have their orbit arranged around the Earth, as Brahe admits, but the circuit of the Earth around the resting Sun, just as the other
planets, namely Mars and Venus, complete their own periods by running
around the Sun." Kepler
You unfortunate people, not that it matters to me, insist that one sunrise/noon/sunset cycle is not one rotation every 24 hours for historical reasons that are beyond your understanding. Who would get satisfaction from speaking with the solar/sidereal
In a word, mediocre.
As 'average' and 'constant' represent roughly the same terms
On Thursday, May 18, 2023 at 12:56:38?AM UTC+10, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
As 'average' and 'constant' represent roughly the same terms
They really don't
The average income in the USA in 2019 was $33,133, that's very different from everybody in the USA earning $33,133.
On Thursday, May 18, 2023 at 12:56:38 AM UTC+10, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
As 'average' and 'constant' represent roughly the same termsThey really don't
The average income in the USA in 2019 was $33,133, that's very different from everybody in the USA earning $33,133.
The average 24-hour day is derived by taking samples for each individual noon cycle and discovering, through a sand or water clock, that varying amounts of material would result for each cycle. If 40 samples of different amounts are taken, combined andthen divided equally, an amount equal to not only the 24-hour day will result but also equal hours, minutes and seconds as subdivisions of that 24-hour day.
As 'average' and 'constant' represent roughly the same terms, the 24-hour clock noon can be anchored to the sunrise/noon/sunset cycle so one rotation every 24 hours expands linearly to a thousand rotations in a thousand 24-hour days. The Earth,therefore, rotates at a rate of 15 degrees per hour and once every 24 hours as per the Latitude/Longitude framework linked to the average 24-hour day.
Intellectual pretence or basically eccentricity is really not acceptable and science fiction/science fantasy will do quite well so long as contributors don't diminish basic facts in astronomy and timekeeping and partition flights of the imaginationfrom enjoyable science facts.
On Wednesday, 17 May 2023 at 15:56:38 UTC+1, Gerald Kelleher wrote:and then divided equally, an amount equal to not only the 24-hour day will result but also equal hours, minutes and seconds as subdivisions of that 24-hour day.
The average 24-hour day is derived by taking samples for each individual noon cycle and discovering, through a sand or water clock, that varying amounts of material would result for each cycle. If 40 samples of different amounts are taken, combined
therefore, rotates at a rate of 15 degrees per hour and once every 24 hours as per the Latitude/Longitude framework linked to the average 24-hour day.As 'average' and 'constant' represent roughly the same terms, the 24-hour clock noon can be anchored to the sunrise/noon/sunset cycle so one rotation every 24 hours expands linearly to a thousand rotations in a thousand 24-hour days. The Earth,
from enjoyable science facts.Intellectual pretence or basically eccentricity is really not acceptable and science fiction/science fantasy will do quite well so long as contributors don't diminish basic facts in astronomy and timekeeping and partition flights of the imagination
I don't know to whom you're replying. If it's to me,
most of this is irrelevant nonsense. If your claim
is that the Earth rotates, on average, exactly once
between one sunset and the next, I do not agree.
If the basis of your statement is that the Earth is
stationary in space except for its rotation, I do not
agree. If you want to continue to debate that, I do
not agree. Are those points on which we disagree?
The average income in the USA in 2019 was $33,133, that's very different from
everybody in the USA earning $33,133.
And that is different from the median income (e.g., the income of the
50001 person if you sort 100001 people by income).
I like science fantasy, at least up to a point, however, people who can't handle basic planetary facts are and always will be boring. Although it isn't a crime, solar system and Earth science research should be far more exciting than things like timetravel which originated in a science fantasy novel in the 19th century based on the empirical misadventure with timekeeping-
"Now, it is very remarkable that this is so extensively overlooked,’ continued the Time Traveller, with a slight accession of cheerfulness. ‘Really this is what is meant by the Fourth Dimension, though some people who talk about the FourthDimension do not know they mean it. It is only another way of looking at Time. There is no difference between time and any of the three dimensions of space " H.G. Wells (1866–1946). The Time Machine. 1898.
I believe they conjured up a formal version of the science fantasy novel as early 20th-century relativity.
On 2023-05-11 04:13, Gerald Kelleher wrote:travel which originated in a science fantasy novel in the 19th century based on the empirical misadventure with timekeeping-
I like science fantasy, at least up to a point, however, people who can't handle basic planetary facts are and always will be boring. Although it isn't a crime, solar system and Earth science research should be far more exciting than things like time
Dimension do not know they mean it. It is only another way of looking at Time. There is no difference between time and any of the three dimensions of space " H.G. Wells (1866–1946). The Time Machine. 1898."Now, it is very remarkable that this is so extensively overlooked,’ continued the Time Traveller, with a slight accession of cheerfulness. ‘Really this is what is meant by the Fourth Dimension, though some people who talk about the Fourth
I believe they conjured up a formal version of the science fantasy novel as early 20th-century relativity.
<yawn>
Next you'll be telling us that airplanes don't displace air downward
when they're flying.
The North and South poles don't rotate as the rotational velocity at
either pole is zero whereas it is 1037.5 mph at the Equator.
Let the nuisance who constantly interrupts genuine discussions in sci.astro.amateur
" It is a fact not generally known that, owing to the difference between solar and sidereal time, the Earth rotates upon its axis once more often
than there are 24-hour days in the year" NASA /Harvard
The average 24-hour day is derived by taking samples for each individual
noon cycle and discovering, through a sand or water clock, that varying amounts of material would result for each cycle. If 40 samples of different amounts are taken, combined and then divided equally, an amount equal to
not only the 24-hour day will result but also equal hours, minutes and seconds as subdivisions of that 24-hour day.
Once again, I salute people here and carry on with your endeavours even if nobody enjoys the human astronomical and timekeeping heritage and thereby cannot distinguish science fact from science fantasy. That heritage is ancient and I so adore just howcareful these unknown people were and perhaps, how careless our present society is with the inheritance we have from ancient societies.
The creation and emergence of the average 24-hour day also serve the subdivision of average hours, minutes and seconds with clock noon anchored to the variations in natural noon. Daily rotation creates the sunrise/noon/sunset cycle every 24 hours withthe time between sunrise to noon symmetrical with noon to sunset.
No need to explain further in this area as once the average 24-hour day and accurate clocks emerged, people can make the antecedent predictive 365/366-day system more accurate.
Watching Gerald and Quaddie play dueling keyboards is like watching. PARRY vs ELIZA, or two modern
LLM chatbots having a debate.
You have all something to judge yourselves with, but then again,
you have your own thing going where the world doesn't make
sense for you.
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 11:03:12 AM UTC-6, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
Watching Gerald and Quaddie play dueling keyboards is like watching. PARRY vs ELIZA, or two modern
LLM chatbots having a debate.
What makes you think that I am like ELIZA?
John Savard
On 2023-05-21, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 11:03:12?AM UTC-6, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
Watching Gerald and Quaddie play dueling keyboards is like watching. PARRY vs ELIZA, or two modern
LLM chatbots having a debate.
What makes you think that I am like ELIZA?
John Savard
Very nice! Your posts often don't show true intelligence, but this one does.
On 21 May 2023 11:39:13 GMT, Chris Buckley <alan@sabir.com> wrote:
On 2023-05-21, Quadibloc <jsavard@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
On Saturday, May 20, 2023 at 11:03:12?AM UTC-6, pete...@gmail.com wrote: >>
Watching Gerald and Quaddie play dueling keyboards is like watching.
PARRY vs ELIZA, or two modern
LLM chatbots having a debate.
What makes you think that I am like ELIZA?
John Savard
Very nice! Your posts often don't show true intelligence, but this one >does.
Actually, several of his responses have shown a higher level of
intelligence than the other fellow has managed, so far.
I know, I know, it is hard to believe.
I like science fantasy when it is separate from solar system and Earth science research, however, science fantasy indistinguishable from science fiction more or less represents the experimental or scientific method.more accurate deducing of the celestial motions...The necessity of which equation, for determining the times of a phænomenon, is evinced as well from the experiments of the pendulum clock, as by eclipses of the satellites of Jupiter." Principia
" It is a fact not generally known that, owing to the difference between solar and sidereal time, the Earth rotates upon its axis once more often than there are 24-hour days in the year" NASA /Harvard
That is science fantasy and equivalent to a flat Earth notion or even surpasses it through contrived logic.
"Absolute time, in astronomy, is distinguished from relative, by the equation of time. For the natural days are truly unequal, though they are commonly considered as equal and used for a measure of time; astronomers correct this inequality for their
That is science fiction as it borrows from an actual timekeeping ( not 'time') facility which anchors the average 24-hour day to noon and the variations in that cycle.into.
It takes no effort to appreciate terrestrial and solar system surroundings along with the motions of the planet in a Sun-centred system while leaving room for creative literature and movies.
I come from the Christ and Christianity of the Johannine tradition and community so " pearls before swine" of a different tradition is contrary to the spirit/inspiration which does not isolate anyone but invites them to experience what they are born
That is science fiction as it borrows from an actual timekeeping ( not 'time') facility
which anchors the average 24-hour day to noon and the variations in that cycle.
" It is a fact not generally known that, owing to the difference between solar and sidereal time, the Earth rotates upon its axis once more often
than there are 24-hour days in the year" NASA /Harvard
That is science fantasy and equivalent to a flat Earth notion or even surpasses it through contrived logic.
On Sunday, May 21, 2023 at 11:21:24 AM UTC-6, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
That is science fiction as it borrows from an actual timekeeping ( not 'time') facilityIn your view, *time* comes from the Sun rising and setting, the stars visible in the
which anchors the average 24-hour day to noon and the variations in that cycle.
night sky changing, and so on. What clocks do is merely timekeeping.
This is no longer the view that most people hold. In their view, *time* doesn't depend
on external celestial phenomena. Instead, *time* is what answers questions like...
How long will it take for some food to spoil when I take it out of the refrigerator?
That's a very simple and prosaic example. But surely you can see, for example, that
food won't spoil faster or slower at different times of year because of the Equation
of Time! And so the kind of time that pendulum clocks indicate is what is applicable
to questions like that.
Or questions of how long it will take a capacitor, charged to a certain voltage, to
discharge through a certain resistance. So it's "timekeeping" time that gets to be
the variable "t" in the equations used to design... a radio reciever.
Cultivating a poetic spirit so as to appreciate the beauty of the Universe is not a bad
thing, but to place it in opposition to actually doing the math needed to build stuff
that works... accomplishes nothing but to get you laughed at. I'm sorry I have to be
so "dour" as to point this out, but you need to know it, to leave the destructive and
foolish path you are following.
On Sunday, May 21, 2023 at 11:34:50 PM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
On Sunday, May 21, 2023 at 11:21:24 AM UTC-6, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
That is science fiction as it borrows from an actual timekeeping ( not 'time') facilityIn your view, *time* comes from the Sun rising and setting, the stars visible in the
which anchors the average 24-hour day to noon and the variations in that cycle.
night sky changing, and so on. What clocks do is merely timekeeping.
This is no longer the view that most people hold. In their view, *time* doesn't depend
on external celestial phenomena. Instead, *time* is what answers questions like...
How long will it take for some food to spoil when I take it out of the refrigerator?
That's a very simple and prosaic example. But surely you can see, for example, that
food won't spoil faster or slower at different times of year because of the Equation
of Time! And so the kind of time that pendulum clocks indicate is what is applicable
to questions like that.
Or questions of how long it will take a capacitor, charged to a certain voltage, to
discharge through a certain resistance. So it's "timekeeping" time that gets to be
the variable "t" in the equations used to design... a radio reciever.
Cultivating a poetic spirit so as to appreciate the beauty of the Universe is not a badI looked back in his post history. Gerald's had this peculiar obsession for a very
thing, but to place it in opposition to actually doing the math needed to build stuff
that works... accomplishes nothing but to get you laughed at. I'm sorry I have to be
so "dour" as to point this out, but you need to know it, to leave the destructive and
foolish path you are following.
long time, and is unlikely to be persuaded that its trivial and unimportant any time
soon.
You folk curse yourselves but that is not my issue and why this flying visit lets me know how dull it is to live in a world completely dominated by science fiction/fantasy.
On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 3:21:24 AM UTC+10, Gerald Kelleher wrote:more accurate deducing of the celestial motions...The necessity of which equation, for determining the times of a phænomenon, is evinced as well from the experiments of the pendulum clock, as by eclipses of the satellites of Jupiter." Principia
I like science fantasy when it is separate from solar system and Earth science research, however, science fantasy indistinguishable from science fiction more or less represents the experimental or scientific method.
" It is a fact not generally known that, owing to the difference between solar and sidereal time, the Earth rotates upon its axis once more often than there are 24-hour days in the year" NASA /Harvard
That is science fantasy and equivalent to a flat Earth notion or even surpasses it through contrived logic.
"Absolute time, in astronomy, is distinguished from relative, by the equation of time. For the natural days are truly unequal, though they are commonly considered as equal and used for a measure of time; astronomers correct this inequality for their
into.
That is science fiction as it borrows from an actual timekeeping ( not 'time') facility which anchors the average 24-hour day to noon and the variations in that cycle.
It takes no effort to appreciate terrestrial and solar system surroundings along with the motions of the planet in a Sun-centred system while leaving room for creative literature and movies.
I come from the Christ and Christianity of the Johannine tradition and community so " pearls before swine" of a different tradition is contrary to the spirit/inspiration which does not isolate anyone but invites them to experience what they are born
you're a stupid kook who churns out word salad.
One day, a person wakes up and sees the Sun come into view as the planet turns once every 24 hours and realises they have been missing out on the connection between their bodies and their lives to the daily, annual and other motions of the planet.with science fiction like the solar/sidereal fiction above, it becomes unproductive, dull and all the negative influences on society.
Then there are those who cannot as they are attached to the clockwork solar system and the timekeeping misadventure captured by a single statement-
" It is a fact not generally known that, owing to the difference between solar and sidereal time, the Earth rotates upon its axis once more often than there are 24-hour days in the year" NASA /Harvard
The more society marvels at the body and all its working components, the more they appreciate the wider surroundings and all the motions they participate in. Science fantasy is harmless and a welcome distraction sometimes, however, when it is allied
Have a ball having a go at me, those who love creation and the Universe are loved in return.
One day, a person wakes up and sees the Sun come into view as the planet turns once every 24 hours and realises they have been missing out on the connection between their bodies and their lives to the daily, annual and other motions of the planet.
Then there are those who cannot as they are attached to the clockwork
solar system and the timekeeping misadventure captured by a single
statement-
" It is a fact not generally known that, owing to the difference between solar and sidereal time, the Earth rotates upon its axis once more often
than there are 24-hour days in the year" NASA /Harvard
On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 1:53:18 PM UTC-4, Gerald Kelleher wrote:with science fiction like the solar/sidereal fiction above, it becomes unproductive, dull and all the negative influences on society.
One day, a person wakes up and sees the Sun come into view as the planet turns once every 24 hours and realises they have been missing out on the connection between their bodies and their lives to the daily, annual and other motions of the planet.
Then there are those who cannot as they are attached to the clockwork solar system and the timekeeping misadventure captured by a single statement-
" It is a fact not generally known that, owing to the difference between solar and sidereal time, the Earth rotates upon its axis once more often than there are 24-hour days in the year" NASA /Harvard
The more society marvels at the body and all its working components, the more they appreciate the wider surroundings and all the motions they participate in. Science fantasy is harmless and a welcome distraction sometimes, however, when it is allied
Have a ball having a go at me, those who love creation and the Universe are loved in return.If you have such a distaste for SF, why don't you leave this group? No one finds your beliefs
concerning sidereal vs solar time interesting, inciteful, or useful. No one here cares.
Pt
On Monday, 22 May 2023 at 13:51:45 UTC+1, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sunday, May 21, 2023 at 11:34:50?PM UTC-4, Quadibloc wrote:
On Sunday, May 21, 2023 at 11:21:24?AM UTC-6, Gerald Kelleher wrote:I looked back in his post history. Gerald's had this peculiar obsession for a very
That is science fiction as it borrows from an actual timekeeping ( not 'time') facilityIn your view, *time* comes from the Sun rising and setting, the stars visible in the
which anchors the average 24-hour day to noon and the variations in that cycle.
night sky changing, and so on. What clocks do is merely timekeeping.
This is no longer the view that most people hold. In their view, *time* doesn't depend
on external celestial phenomena. Instead, *time* is what answers questions like...
How long will it take for some food to spoil when I take it out of the refrigerator?
That's a very simple and prosaic example. But surely you can see, for example, that
food won't spoil faster or slower at different times of year because of the Equation
of Time! And so the kind of time that pendulum clocks indicate is what is applicable
to questions like that.
Or questions of how long it will take a capacitor, charged to a certain voltage, to
discharge through a certain resistance. So it's "timekeeping" time that gets to be
the variable "t" in the equations used to design... a radio reciever.
Cultivating a poetic spirit so as to appreciate the beauty of the Universe is not a bad
thing, but to place it in opposition to actually doing the math needed to build stuff
that works... accomplishes nothing but to get you laughed at. I'm sorry I have to be
so "dour" as to point this out, but you need to know it, to leave the destructive and
foolish path you are following.
long time, and is unlikely to be persuaded that its trivial and unimportant any time
soon.
What if we take the Sun away for a while? Maybe he will
figure it out then?
I'm not saying that that wouldn't be inconvenient.
Probably not worth the doing.
I have that feeling of being in that zone where a
person that I'm arguing with is articulate, verbally
abusive not to an extraordinary extent, and I come
to suspect that we're using terms differently and
it may even be that I and others are on the wrong
side. Which I believe isn't the case, but, like
Terry Austin, it's somebody, who I still presume to
!be a human being, whose behaviour offends my
sense of what that means.
On Sun, 21 May 2023 10:21:21 -0700 (PDT), Gerald Kelleher ><kelleher.gerald@gmail.com> wrote:
IOW, you are promoting religion rather than science. That explains a
lot.
Nothing wrong with that
On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 11:53:18?AM UTC-6, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
One day, a person wakes up and sees the Sun come into view as the planet
turns once every 24 hours and realises they have been missing out on the
connection between their bodies and their lives to the daily, annual and
other motions of the planet.
Then there are those who cannot as they are attached to the clockwork
solar system and the timekeeping misadventure captured by a single
statement-
" It is a fact not generally known that, owing to the difference between
solar and sidereal time, the Earth rotates upon its axis once more often
than there are 24-hour days in the year" NASA /Harvard
A connection to the wider Universe is indeed something that people seek;
it is sought in religious faith, it is sought in the nonsense of astrology, and
Carl Sagan, by noting that the heavier elements in our bodies were formed
in distant stars long ago, in the statement "we are stardust", sought to
show that science could offer such a connection.
Our daily personal lives are certainly affected by the cycle of day and night.
And that cycle is indeed caused by the rotation of the Earth.
How a matter of definition - whether if the Earth _didn't_ rotate, one
side of the Earth would always face the Sun, as Mercury was once
believed to behave, or the Sun would rise and set once a year - would
make or break that connection, however, is not readily apparent to me.
And that the second definition, the one you reject, happens to be
useful for calculations - which use the physical laws set forth
by Newton - which *work*, and let us do useful things, so they're
confirmed in scientific and engineering practice. So they're not
going anywhere, and it's not because we're insensitive to higher
reality. It's because you don't know math and science, and you don't
care to change that.
I like science fantasy when it is separate from solar system and Earth science research, however, science fantasy indistinguishable from science fiction more or less represents the experimental or scientific method.more accurate deducing of the celestial motions...The necessity of which equation, for determining the times of a phænomenon, is evinced as well from the experiments of the pendulum clock, as by eclipses of the satellites of Jupiter." Principia
" It is a fact not generally known that, owing to the difference between solar and sidereal time, the Earth rotates upon its axis once more often than there are 24-hour days in the year" NASA /Harvard
That is science fantasy and equivalent to a flat Earth notion or even surpasses it through contrived logic.
"Absolute time, in astronomy, is distinguished from relative, by the equation of time. For the natural days are truly unequal, though they are commonly considered as equal and used for a measure of time; astronomers correct this inequality for their
That is science fiction as it borrows from an actual timekeeping ( not 'time') facility which anchors the average 24-hour day to noon and the variations in that cycle.into.
It takes no effort to appreciate terrestrial and solar system surroundings along with the motions of the planet in a Sun-centred system while leaving room for creative literature and movies.
I come from the Christ and Christianity of the Johannine tradition and community so " pearls before swine" of a different tradition is contrary to the spirit/inspiration which does not isolate anyone but invites them to experience what they are born
On Mon, 22 May 2023 09:25:12 -0700 (PDT), Robert Carnegie <rja.ca...@excite.com> wrote:
[Gerald Kelleher]Did you miss his reference to "the Christ and Christianity of the
I have that feeling of being in that zone where a
person that I'm arguing with is articulate, verbally
abusive not to an extraordinary extent, and I come
to suspect that we're using terms differently and
it may even be that I and others are on the wrong
side. Which I believe isn't the case, but, like
Terry Austin, it's somebody, who I still presume to
!be a human being, whose behaviour offends my
sense of what that means.
Johannine tradition"? I did, until I noticed it quoted by someone
else.
This is an argument from religion, not science.
And, to the extent that it masquerades as science, is deceptive.
However, "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it,
doesn't go away." The movement of the Earth proceeds
without depending on your belief about it.
On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 7:52:29 PM UTC-6, Robert Carnegie wrote:
However, "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it,That is true.
doesn't go away." The movement of the Earth proceeds
without depending on your belief about it.
But for the most part, he does not claim that the Earth moves in
any way that is different from the way it actually does move.
All he does is claim that the way scientists today think about these
motions is wrong. For example, astronomers say the Earth rotates
once every 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 4 seconds.
Why not just once every 24 hours?
Well, because counting rotation relative to the fixed stars lets one calculate centrifugal force correctly. And if one used rotation relative
to the actual Sun instead of the mean sun, one would have to keep
adding and then subtracting the correction for the Equation of Time.
He doesn't know the math, and he doesn't do the math, so he
has no sympathy for how compound motions need to be decomposed
into their individual components to allow calculations to be manageable.
Instead of calculating, we should just look up and be inspired by the
awe and wonder of the Universe! Sorry, we only get to do that on our
days off.
On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 4:00:31?AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 7:52:29?PM UTC-6, Robert Carnegie wrote:
However, "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it,That is true.
doesn't go away." The movement of the Earth proceeds
without depending on your belief about it.
But for the most part, he does not claim that the Earth moves in
any way that is different from the way it actually does move.
All he does is claim that the way scientists today think about these
motions is wrong. For example, astronomers say the Earth rotates
once every 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 4 seconds.
Why not just once every 24 hours?
Well, because counting rotation relative to the fixed stars lets one
calculate centrifugal force correctly. And if one used rotation relative
to the actual Sun instead of the mean sun, one would have to keep
adding and then subtracting the correction for the Equation of Time.
He doesn't know the math, and he doesn't do the math, so he
has no sympathy for how compound motions need to be decomposed
into their individual components to allow calculations to be manageable.
Instead of calculating, we should just look up and be inspired by the
awe and wonder of the Universe! Sorry, we only get to do that on our
days off.
For an on-topic observation... this passage from Tolkien's _The Lord
of the Rings_ had been disturbing to me.
"Radagast the Brown! " laughed Saruman, and he no longer concealed his
scorn. "Radagast the Bird-tamer! Radagast the Simple! Radagast the Fool! Yet >he had just the wit to play the part that I set him. For you have come, and >that was all the purpose of my message. And here you will stay, Gandalf the >Grey, and rest from journeys. For I am Saruman the Wise, Saruman Ring-maker, >Saruman of Many Colours! "
'I looked then and saw that his robes, which had seemed white, were not
so, but were woven of all colours. and if he moved they shimmered and changed
hue so that the eye was bewildered.
"I liked white better," I said.
"White! " he sneered. "It serves as a beginning. White cloth may be
dyed. The white page can be overwritten; and the white light can be broken." >"In which case it is no longer white," said I. "And he that breaks a
thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom."
It seemed as though Tolkien were... taking a dig at Isaac Newton and
his experiments with light and prisms. And while Saruman is undoubtedly
evil, what Newton did was right and proper, and added greatly to our >understanding of light.
Paul S Person <psperson@old.netcom.invalid> writes:
On Sun, 21 May 2023 10:21:21 -0700 (PDT), Gerald Kelleher >><kelleher.gerald@gmail.com> wrote:
IOW, you are promoting religion rather than science. That explains a
lot.
Nothing wrong with that
Actually, that's debatable.
On Wed, 24 May 2023 03:27:20 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 4:00:31?AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 7:52:29?PM UTC-6, Robert Carnegie wrote:
However, "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it,That is true.
doesn't go away." The movement of the Earth proceeds
without depending on your belief about it.
But for the most part, he does not claim that the Earth moves in
any way that is different from the way it actually does move.
All he does is claim that the way scientists today think about these
motions is wrong. For example, astronomers say the Earth rotates
once every 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 4 seconds.
Why not just once every 24 hours?
Well, because counting rotation relative to the fixed stars lets one
calculate centrifugal force correctly. And if one used rotation relative >> to the actual Sun instead of the mean sun, one would have to keep
adding and then subtracting the correction for the Equation of Time.
He doesn't know the math, and he doesn't do the math, so he
has no sympathy for how compound motions need to be decomposed
into their individual components to allow calculations to be manageable. >>
Instead of calculating, we should just look up and be inspired by the
awe and wonder of the Universe! Sorry, we only get to do that on our
days off.
For an on-topic observation... this passage from Tolkien's _The Lord
of the Rings_ had been disturbing to me.
"Radagast the Brown! " laughed Saruman, and he no longer concealed his >scorn. "Radagast the Bird-tamer! Radagast the Simple! Radagast the Fool! Yet
he had just the wit to play the part that I set him. For you have come, and >that was all the purpose of my message. And here you will stay, Gandalf the >Grey, and rest from journeys. For I am Saruman the Wise, Saruman Ring-maker,
Saruman of Many Colours! "
'I looked then and saw that his robes, which had seemed white, were not
so, but were woven of all colours. and if he moved they shimmered and changed
hue so that the eye was bewildered.
"I liked white better," I said.
"White! " he sneered. "It serves as a beginning. White cloth may be
dyed. The white page can be overwritten; and the white light can be broken."
"In which case it is no longer white," said I. "And he that breaks a
thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom."
It seemed as though Tolkien were... taking a dig at Isaac Newton and
his experiments with light and prisms. And while Saruman is undoubtedly >evil, what Newton did was right and proper, and added greatly to our >understanding of light.
Some have pointed out that, until not so far back as all that, there
were people among us who went from horses being the main means of transportation to airplanes. JRRT was one of those people, and, like
many, longed for the Days of His Youth to return. Preferably without
WWI, of course.
On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 12:16:19 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
On Wed, 24 May 2023 03:27:20 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 4:00:31?AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 7:52:29?PM UTC-6, Robert Carnegie wrote:
However, "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it,That is true.
doesn't go away." The movement of the Earth proceeds
without depending on your belief about it.
But for the most part, he does not claim that the Earth moves in
any way that is different from the way it actually does move.
All he does is claim that the way scientists today think about these
motions is wrong. For example, astronomers say the Earth rotates
once every 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 4 seconds.
Why not just once every 24 hours?
Well, because counting rotation relative to the fixed stars lets one
calculate centrifugal force correctly. And if one used rotation relative
to the actual Sun instead of the mean sun, one would have to keep
adding and then subtracting the correction for the Equation of Time.
He doesn't know the math, and he doesn't do the math, so he
has no sympathy for how compound motions need to be decomposed
into their individual components to allow calculations to be manageable.
Instead of calculating, we should just look up and be inspired by the >> awe and wonder of the Universe! Sorry, we only get to do that on our
days off.
For an on-topic observation... this passage from Tolkien's _The Lord
of the Rings_ had been disturbing to me.
"Radagast the Brown! " laughed Saruman, and he no longer concealed his >scorn. "Radagast the Bird-tamer! Radagast the Simple! Radagast the Fool! Yet
he had just the wit to play the part that I set him. For you have come, and
that was all the purpose of my message. And here you will stay, Gandalf the
Grey, and rest from journeys. For I am Saruman the Wise, Saruman Ring-maker,
Saruman of Many Colours! "
'I looked then and saw that his robes, which had seemed white, were not
so, but were woven of all colours. and if he moved they shimmered and changed
hue so that the eye was bewildered.
"I liked white better," I said.
"White! " he sneered. "It serves as a beginning. White cloth may be >dyed. The white page can be overwritten; and the white light can be broken."
"In which case it is no longer white," said I. "And he that breaks a >thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom."
And for that matter, Newton also used prisms to create white light, showing thatIt seemed as though Tolkien were... taking a dig at Isaac Newton and
his experiments with light and prisms. And while Saruman is undoubtedly >evil, what Newton did was right and proper, and added greatly to our >understanding of light.
what he had disassembled he could put back together. One up on Saruman there.
[...]
Some have pointed out that, until not so far back as all that, thereI wonder how the WWI battlefields would have inspired JRRT had he gone on with sequels.
were people among us who went from horses being the main means of transportation to airplanes. JRRT was one of those people, and, like
many, longed for the Days of His Youth to return. Preferably without
WWI, of course.
Apparently there is a substantial "red zone" in Northern France where people are not allowed to
live or farm. Much of it is covered in woods of which he would at first approve, but a closer
look shows the areato be toxic, with orders of magnitude more arsenic and aluminum perchlorate
than people can tolerate. If any of those trees bear fruit, it is toxic. Reminds me of the unnatural
plants in Morgul vale.
Within the red zone is an area of about one hundred square kilometers where nothing
but lichen will grow. Remediation processes are slow enough that one estimate
was that this would take five hundred years to be habitable.
Outside the red zone is a far larger yellow zone where farming is allowed. But even here
all is not well, and there are hot spots as bad as the red zone.
And of course there's the unexploded ammunition problem. Vast amounts of this
are recovered each year, and people still die from it. Not a problem for Mordor,
I suppose.
William Hyde
On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 4:32:21 AM UTC+1, pete...@gmail.com wrote:with science fiction like the solar/sidereal fiction above, it becomes unproductive, dull and all the negative influences on society.
On Monday, May 22, 2023 at 1:53:18 PM UTC-4, Gerald Kelleher wrote:
One day, a person wakes up and sees the Sun come into view as the planet turns once every 24 hours and realises they have been missing out on the connection between their bodies and their lives to the daily, annual and other motions of the planet.
Then there are those who cannot as they are attached to the clockwork solar system and the timekeeping misadventure captured by a single statement-
" It is a fact not generally known that, owing to the difference between solar and sidereal time, the Earth rotates upon its axis once more often than there are 24-hour days in the year" NASA /Harvard
The more society marvels at the body and all its working components, the more they appreciate the wider surroundings and all the motions they participate in. Science fantasy is harmless and a welcome distraction sometimes, however, when it is allied
connection to your surroundings.If you have such a distaste for SF, why don't you leave this group? No one finds your beliefs
Have a ball having a go at me, those who love creation and the Universe are loved in return.
concerning sidereal vs solar time interesting, inciteful, or useful. No one here cares.
Pt
I don't have any distaste for people, however, students today have a chance to escape your zombie-like fate where you can't accept that one rotation creates one sunrise/noon/sunset cycle every 24 hours hence you live in a science fantasy world with no
It is more a human horror newsgroup here insofar as normally imaginative science fantasy has a role in society yet without an appreciation of basic planetary facts, it becomes one long boring attempt to figuratively bite someone demonstrating the joysof the Universe as it really exists.
The solar/sidereal fantasy is a signature of a lost soul otherwise it a stupid conclusion drawn from a timekeeping misadventure. If it is any consolation, in future, your subculture will represent a lesson of sorts for generations to come.
On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 12:16:19 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
On Wed, 24 May 2023 03:27:20 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 4:00:31?AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 7:52:29?PM UTC-6, Robert Carnegie wrote:
However, "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it,That is true.
doesn't go away." The movement of the Earth proceeds
without depending on your belief about it.
But for the most part, he does not claim that the Earth moves in
any way that is different from the way it actually does move.
All he does is claim that the way scientists today think about these
motions is wrong. For example, astronomers say the Earth rotates
once every 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 4 seconds.
Why not just once every 24 hours?
Well, because counting rotation relative to the fixed stars lets one
calculate centrifugal force correctly. And if one used rotation relative
to the actual Sun instead of the mean sun, one would have to keep
adding and then subtracting the correction for the Equation of Time.
He doesn't know the math, and he doesn't do the math, so he
has no sympathy for how compound motions need to be decomposed
into their individual components to allow calculations to be manageable.
Instead of calculating, we should just look up and be inspired by the >> awe and wonder of the Universe! Sorry, we only get to do that on our
days off.
For an on-topic observation... this passage from Tolkien's _The Lord
of the Rings_ had been disturbing to me.
"Radagast the Brown! " laughed Saruman, and he no longer concealed his >scorn. "Radagast the Bird-tamer! Radagast the Simple! Radagast the Fool! Yet
he had just the wit to play the part that I set him. For you have come, and
that was all the purpose of my message. And here you will stay, Gandalf the
Grey, and rest from journeys. For I am Saruman the Wise, Saruman Ring-maker,
Saruman of Many Colours! "
'I looked then and saw that his robes, which had seemed white, were not
so, but were woven of all colours. and if he moved they shimmered and changed
hue so that the eye was bewildered.
"I liked white better," I said.
"White! " he sneered. "It serves as a beginning. White cloth may be >dyed. The white page can be overwritten; and the white light can be broken."
"In which case it is no longer white," said I. "And he that breaks a >thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom."
And for that matter, Newton also used prisms to create white light, showing thatIt seemed as though Tolkien were... taking a dig at Isaac Newton and
his experiments with light and prisms. And while Saruman is undoubtedly >evil, what Newton did was right and proper, and added greatly to our >understanding of light.
what he had disassembled he could put back together. One up on Saruman there.
[...]
Some have pointed out that, until not so far back as all that, thereI wonder how the WWI battlefields would have inspired JRRT had he gone on with sequels.
were people among us who went from horses being the main means of transportation to airplanes. JRRT was one of those people, and, like
many, longed for the Days of His Youth to return. Preferably without
WWI, of course.
Apparently there is a substantial "red zone" in Northern France where people are not allowed to
live or farm. Much of it is covered in woods of which he would at first approve, but a closer
look shows the area to be toxic, with orders of magnitude more arsenic and aluminum perchlorate
than people can tolerate. If any of those trees bear fruit, it is toxic. Reminds me of the unnatural
plants in Morgul vale.
Within the red zone is an area of about one hundred square kilometers where nothing
but lichen will grow. Remediation processes are slow enough that one estimate
was that this would take five hundred years to be habitable.
Outside the red zone is a far larger yellow zone where farming is allowed. But even here
all is not well, and there are hot spots as bad as the red zone.
And of course there's the unexploded ammunition problem. Vast amounts of this
are recovered each year, and people still die from it. Not a problem for Mordor,
I suppose.
On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 2:32:56 PM UTC-4, William Hyde wrote:
On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 12:16:19 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote:
On Wed, 24 May 2023 03:27:20 -0700 (PDT), Quadibloc
<jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:
On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 4:00:31?AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 7:52:29?PM UTC-6, Robert Carnegie wrote: >>
However, "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it,That is true.
doesn't go away." The movement of the Earth proceeds
without depending on your belief about it.
But for the most part, he does not claim that the Earth moves in
any way that is different from the way it actually does move.
All he does is claim that the way scientists today think about these >> motions is wrong. For example, astronomers say the Earth rotates
once every 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 4 seconds.
Why not just once every 24 hours?
Well, because counting rotation relative to the fixed stars lets one >> calculate centrifugal force correctly. And if one used rotation relative
to the actual Sun instead of the mean sun, one would have to keep
adding and then subtracting the correction for the Equation of Time. >>
He doesn't know the math, and he doesn't do the math, so he
has no sympathy for how compound motions need to be decomposed
into their individual components to allow calculations to be manageable.
Instead of calculating, we should just look up and be inspired by the >> awe and wonder of the Universe! Sorry, we only get to do that on our >> days off.
For an on-topic observation... this passage from Tolkien's _The Lord >of the Rings_ had been disturbing to me.
"Radagast the Brown! " laughed Saruman, and he no longer concealed his >scorn. "Radagast the Bird-tamer! Radagast the Simple! Radagast the Fool! Yet
he had just the wit to play the part that I set him. For you have come, and
that was all the purpose of my message. And here you will stay, Gandalf the
Grey, and rest from journeys. For I am Saruman the Wise, Saruman Ring-maker,
Saruman of Many Colours! "
'I looked then and saw that his robes, which had seemed white, were not
so, but were woven of all colours. and if he moved they shimmered and changed
hue so that the eye was bewildered.
"I liked white better," I said.
"White! " he sneered. "It serves as a beginning. White cloth may be >dyed. The white page can be overwritten; and the white light can be broken."
"In which case it is no longer white," said I. "And he that breaks a >thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom."
And for that matter, Newton also used prisms to create white light, showing thatIt seemed as though Tolkien were... taking a dig at Isaac Newton and >his experiments with light and prisms. And while Saruman is undoubtedly >evil, what Newton did was right and proper, and added greatly to our >understanding of light.
what he had disassembled he could put back together. One up on Saruman there.
[...]
Some have pointed out that, until not so far back as all that, there were people among us who went from horses being the main means of transportation to airplanes. JRRT was one of those people, and, like many, longed for the Days of His Youth to return. Preferably without WWI, of course.I wonder how the WWI battlefields would have inspired JRRT had he gone on with sequels.
Apparently there is a substantial "red zone" in Northern France where people are not allowed to
live or farm. Much of it is covered in woods of which he would at first approve, but a closer
look shows the areato be toxic, with orders of magnitude more arsenic and aluminum perchlorate
than people can tolerate. If any of those trees bear fruit, it is toxic. Reminds me of the unnatural
plants in Morgul vale.
Within the red zone is an area of about one hundred square kilometers where nothing
but lichen will grow. Remediation processes are slow enough that one estimate
was that this would take five hundred years to be habitable.
Outside the red zone is a far larger yellow zone where farming is allowed. But even here
all is not well, and there are hot spots as bad as the red zone.
And of course there's the unexploded ammunition problem. Vast amounts of this
are recovered each year, and people still die from it. Not a problem for Mordor,
I suppose.
William HydeDetails here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqwkVS3VzpA
Most of the red zone looks pretty normal from a distance, but there is one area of a few dozen acres that's as bad as you say - it was used for some early remediation efforts and vast numbers of shells and other munitions were burned there, including poison gas shells.
On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 5:51:32 PM UTC-4, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 2:32:56 PM UTC-4, William Hyde wrote:
On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 12:16:19 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote: >>>> On Wed, 24 May 2023 03:27:20 -0700 (PDT), QuadiblocDetails here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqwkVS3VzpA
<jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:And for that matter, Newton also used prisms to create white light, showing that
On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 4:00:31?AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote:
On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 7:52:29?PM UTC-6, Robert Carnegie wrote: >>>>>>
However, "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it,That is true.
doesn't go away." The movement of the Earth proceeds
without depending on your belief about it.
But for the most part, he does not claim that the Earth moves in
any way that is different from the way it actually does move.
All he does is claim that the way scientists today think about these >>>>>> motions is wrong. For example, astronomers say the Earth rotates
once every 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 4 seconds.
Why not just once every 24 hours?
Well, because counting rotation relative to the fixed stars lets one >>>>>> calculate centrifugal force correctly. And if one used rotation relative >>>>>> to the actual Sun instead of the mean sun, one would have to keep
adding and then subtracting the correction for the Equation of Time. >>>>>>
He doesn't know the math, and he doesn't do the math, so he
has no sympathy for how compound motions need to be decomposed
into their individual components to allow calculations to be manageable. >>>>>>
Instead of calculating, we should just look up and be inspired by the >>>>>> awe and wonder of the Universe! Sorry, we only get to do that on our >>>>>> days off.
For an on-topic observation... this passage from Tolkien's _The Lord >>>>> of the Rings_ had been disturbing to me.
"Radagast the Brown! " laughed Saruman, and he no longer concealed his >>>>> scorn. "Radagast the Bird-tamer! Radagast the Simple! Radagast the Fool! Yet
he had just the wit to play the part that I set him. For you have come, and
that was all the purpose of my message. And here you will stay, Gandalf the
Grey, and rest from journeys. For I am Saruman the Wise, Saruman Ring-maker,
Saruman of Many Colours! "
'I looked then and saw that his robes, which had seemed white, were not >>>>> so, but were woven of all colours. and if he moved they shimmered and changed
hue so that the eye was bewildered.
"I liked white better," I said.
"White! " he sneered. "It serves as a beginning. White cloth may be
dyed. The white page can be overwritten; and the white light can be broken."
"In which case it is no longer white," said I. "And he that breaks a >>>>> thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom."
It seemed as though Tolkien were... taking a dig at Isaac Newton and >>>>> his experiments with light and prisms. And while Saruman is undoubtedly >>>>> evil, what Newton did was right and proper, and added greatly to our >>>>> understanding of light.
what he had disassembled he could put back together. One up on Saruman there.
[...]
Some have pointed out that, until not so far back as all that, thereI wonder how the WWI battlefields would have inspired JRRT had he gone on with sequels.
were people among us who went from horses being the main means of
transportation to airplanes. JRRT was one of those people, and, like
many, longed for the Days of His Youth to return. Preferably without
WWI, of course.
Apparently there is a substantial "red zone" in Northern France where people are not allowed to
live or farm. Much of it is covered in woods of which he would at first approve, but a closer
look shows the areato be toxic, with orders of magnitude more arsenic and aluminum perchlorate
than people can tolerate. If any of those trees bear fruit, it is toxic. Reminds me of the unnatural
plants in Morgul vale.
Within the red zone is an area of about one hundred square kilometers where nothing
but lichen will grow. Remediation processes are slow enough that one estimate
was that this would take five hundred years to be habitable.
Outside the red zone is a far larger yellow zone where farming is allowed. But even here
all is not well, and there are hot spots as bad as the red zone.
And of course there's the unexploded ammunition problem. Vast amounts of this
are recovered each year, and people still die from it. Not a problem for Mordor,
I suppose.
William Hyde
Most of the red zone looks pretty normal from a distance, but there is one >> area of a few dozen acres that's as bad as you say - it was used for some
early remediation efforts and vast numbers of shells and other munitions
were burned there, including poison gas shells.
Thanks.
Smaller than I thought then, good. But in that case I don't see why remediation will take
700 years. But from the video I gather that the place a gaz, in particular, is far more
poisoned than I thought, and the yellow zone seems to contain more bad areas than
I knew.
William Hyde
On 5/25/2023 2:22 PM, William Hyde wrote:
On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 5:51:32 PM UTC-4, pete...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 2:32:56 PM UTC-4, William Hyde wrote:
On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 12:16:19 PM UTC-4, Paul S Person wrote: >>>> On Wed, 24 May 2023 03:27:20 -0700 (PDT), QuadiblocDetails here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqwkVS3VzpA
<jsa...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote:And for that matter, Newton also used prisms to create white light, showing that
On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 4:00:31?AM UTC-6, Quadibloc wrote: >>>>>> On Tuesday, May 23, 2023 at 7:52:29?PM UTC-6, Robert Carnegie wrote: >>>>>>
However, "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, >>>>>>> doesn't go away." The movement of the Earth proceedsThat is true.
without depending on your belief about it.
But for the most part, he does not claim that the Earth moves in >>>>>> any way that is different from the way it actually does move.
All he does is claim that the way scientists today think about these >>>>>> motions is wrong. For example, astronomers say the Earth rotates >>>>>> once every 23 hours, 56 minutes, and 4 seconds.
Why not just once every 24 hours?
Well, because counting rotation relative to the fixed stars lets one >>>>>> calculate centrifugal force correctly. And if one used rotation relative
to the actual Sun instead of the mean sun, one would have to keep >>>>>> adding and then subtracting the correction for the Equation of Time. >>>>>>
He doesn't know the math, and he doesn't do the math, so he
has no sympathy for how compound motions need to be decomposed
into their individual components to allow calculations to be manageable.
Instead of calculating, we should just look up and be inspired by the >>>>>> awe and wonder of the Universe! Sorry, we only get to do that on our >>>>>> days off.
For an on-topic observation... this passage from Tolkien's _The Lord >>>>> of the Rings_ had been disturbing to me.
"Radagast the Brown! " laughed Saruman, and he no longer concealed his >>>>> scorn. "Radagast the Bird-tamer! Radagast the Simple! Radagast the Fool! Yet
he had just the wit to play the part that I set him. For you have come, and
that was all the purpose of my message. And here you will stay, Gandalf the
Grey, and rest from journeys. For I am Saruman the Wise, Saruman Ring-maker,
Saruman of Many Colours! "
'I looked then and saw that his robes, which had seemed white, were not
so, but were woven of all colours. and if he moved they shimmered and changed
hue so that the eye was bewildered.
"I liked white better," I said.
"White! " he sneered. "It serves as a beginning. White cloth may be >>>>> dyed. The white page can be overwritten; and the white light can be broken."
"In which case it is no longer white," said I. "And he that breaks a >>>>> thing to find out what it is has left the path of wisdom."
It seemed as though Tolkien were... taking a dig at Isaac Newton and >>>>> his experiments with light and prisms. And while Saruman is undoubtedly
evil, what Newton did was right and proper, and added greatly to our >>>>> understanding of light.
what he had disassembled he could put back together. One up on Saruman there.
[...]
Some have pointed out that, until not so far back as all that, there >>>> were people among us who went from horses being the main means ofI wonder how the WWI battlefields would have inspired JRRT had he gone on with sequels.
transportation to airplanes. JRRT was one of those people, and, like >>>> many, longed for the Days of His Youth to return. Preferably without >>>> WWI, of course.
Apparently there is a substantial "red zone" in Northern France where people are not allowed to
live or farm. Much of it is covered in woods of which he would at first approve, but a closer
look shows the areato be toxic, with orders of magnitude more arsenic and aluminum perchlorate
than people can tolerate. If any of those trees bear fruit, it is toxic. Reminds me of the unnatural
plants in Morgul vale.
Within the red zone is an area of about one hundred square kilometers where nothing
but lichen will grow. Remediation processes are slow enough that one estimate
was that this would take five hundred years to be habitable.
Outside the red zone is a far larger yellow zone where farming is allowed. But even here
all is not well, and there are hot spots as bad as the red zone.
And of course there's the unexploded ammunition problem. Vast amounts of this
are recovered each year, and people still die from it. Not a problem for Mordor,
I suppose.
William Hyde
Most of the red zone looks pretty normal from a distance, but there is one
area of a few dozen acres that's as bad as you say - it was used for some >> early remediation efforts and vast numbers of shells and other munitions >> were burned there, including poison gas shells.
Thanks.
Smaller than I thought then, good. But in that case I don't see why remediation will take
700 years. But from the video I gather that the place a gaz, in particular, is far more
poisoned than I thought, and the yellow zone seems to contain more bad areas than
I knew.
William HydeSounds worse than Chernobyl.
Smaller than I thought then, good. But in that case I don't see why remediation will take
700 years. But from the video I gather that the place a gaz, in particular, is far more
poisoned than I thought, and the yellow zone seems to contain more bad areas than
I knew.
William Hyde
Sounds worse than Chernobyl.
On Thu, 25 May 2023 21:10:40 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmcguire5@gmail.com> wrote:
Smaller than I thought then, good. But in that case I don't see why remediation will take
700 years. But from the video I gather that the place a gaz, in particular, is far more
poisoned than I thought, and the yellow zone seems to contain more bad areas than
I knew.
William Hyde
Sounds worse than Chernobyl.
Worse than a nuclear plant just inside the Russia/Belarus - Ukrainian
border? Wow that's pretty bad...
The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> writes:
On Thu, 25 May 2023 21:10:40 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
Smaller than I thought then, good. But in that case I don't see why remediation will take
700 years. But from the video I gather that the place a gaz, in particular, is far more
poisoned than I thought, and the yellow zone seems to contain more bad areas than
I knew.
William Hyde
Sounds worse than Chernobyl.
Worse than a nuclear plant just inside the Russia/Belarus - Ukrainian >border? Wow that's pretty bad...As I understand it the biggest problem in Northern France is the
tens of thousands of unexploded shells (both chemical and explosive)
still buried. At the current rate of removal (100's per year), it
will take 700 years to completely clear them.
On Friday, May 26, 2023 at 12:31:12 PM UTC-4, Scott Lurndal wrote:
The Horny Goat <lcr...@home.ca> writes:
On Thu, 25 May 2023 21:10:40 -0500, Lynn McGuire
<lynnmc...@gmail.com> wrote:
Smaller than I thought then, good. But in that case I don't see why remediation will take
700 years. But from the video I gather that the place a gaz, in particular, is far more
poisoned than I thought, and the yellow zone seems to contain more bad areas than
I knew.
William Hyde
Sounds worse than Chernobyl.
The "Iron Harvest". Over a thousand tons per year in France and Belgium.Worse than a nuclear plant just inside the Russia/Belarus - Ukrainian >border? Wow that's pretty bad...As I understand it the biggest problem in Northern France is the
tens of thousands of unexploded shells (both chemical and explosive)
still buried. At the current rate of removal (100's per year), it
will take 700 years to completely clear them.
Apparently shells from WWI can still explode, and with detonators in a deteriorated state they
can be set off by a mild bump. Gas shells may well be a worse problem, though.
Apparently in Germany fifteen pieces of unexploded ordinance are found per day, on average.
It seems we humans can create quite a mess, even without nukes.
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| Calls: | 6,910 |
| Files: | 12,377 |
| Messages: | 5,429,452 |
