• MT VOID, 05/12/23 -- Vol. 41, No. 46, Whole Number 2275

    From evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com@21:1/5 to All on Sun May 14 07:53:03 2023
    THE MT VOID
    05/12/23 -- Vol. 41, No. 46, Whole Number 2275

    Co-Editor: Mark Leeper, mleeper@optonline.net
    Co-Editor: Evelyn Leeper, eleeper@optonline.net
    Sending Address: evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com
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    Topics:
    NORTH BY NORTHWEST (comments by Mark R. Leeper)
    Mini Reviews, Part 22 (PK, MIDSOMMAR, WE HAVE A GHOST)
    (film reviews by Mark R. Leeper
    and Evelyn C. Leeper)
    Roddenberry Archives Project and Otoy (comments
    by Greg Frederick)
    A.I. Designs 3D Printed Rocket Engine (comments
    by Greg Frederick)
    Re-Reading, Banshees, Mary Robinette Kowal
    (letter of comment by John Hertz)
    This Week's Reading (ONCE UPON A TOME) (book comments
    by Evelyn C. Leeper)

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: NORTH BY NORTHWEST (comments by Mark R. Leeper)

    I am 72 years old and I have earned the right to speak my mind now.

    There is no way Cary Grant could have pulled Eva Marie Saint up to
    the ledge in NORTH BY NORTHWEST. She's dead. [-mrl]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: Mini Reviews, Part 22 (film reviews by Mark R. Leeper and
    Evelyn C. Leeper)

    This is the twenty-second batch of mini-reviews, all films of the
    fantastic:

    PK (2014): PK is a 2014 Indian science fiction film about an alien
    who is visiting Earth. Within the first five minutes of his
    arrival, someone steals the device for recalling his spaceship.
    But unlike E.T., PK looks entirely human, even if he acts a little
    weird, and talks a little strange. And the weirdness is how PK
    gets his name: people keep calling him "peekay", which is Hindi for
    "drunk"--or "tipsy", as the subtitles would have it. (The latter
    makes him sound like an alien Topper or Thin Man.)

    PK does have the same problem as E.T., but instead of hiding in
    closets or within Halloween costumes, he interacts with society,
    which he does not entirely understand. (Example: he sees someone
    hand a vendor a 20-rupee note with Gandhi on it, and get some food
    in return. So he collects all the pictures of Gandhi he can
    finds--postcards, flyers, posters--and tries to exchange them for
    food.)

    So this is much more a "first contact" story, with the convenience
    of PK able to acquire language skills fairly early on through
    telepathy. But the real focus of PK (the movie) is religion, as PK
    tries to petition God--some God, any God--to help him get his
    "remote" back after seeing everyone around him asking God for
    favors. Needless to say, it doesn't work, and PK develops a
    philosophy that deals with this.

    There is also a love story that serves more as bookends than as a through-thread, and a few songs, but no major production numbers.
    Its main virtue is as a science fiction film. [-mrl/ecl]

    Released 18 December 2014; US release date unknown; currently on
    Netflix streaming. Rating: +2 (-4 to +4), or 7/10

    Film Credits: <https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2338151/reference>

    What others are saying: <https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/pk>

    MIDSOMMAR (2019): In MIDSOMMAR, three friends travel to Sweden to
    observe the midsummer festival at the farm/commune of another of
    their friends. It is probably not much of a spoiler at this point
    to say that this film bears more than a slight resemblance to THE
    WICKER MAN, although the "outsiders" here are not quite as clueless
    as Sergeant Howie. For starters, one of them is doing his thesis
    on midsummer festivals.

    This is a 2019 movie, so not surprisingly, there is more sex (and
    gore) than in the 1972 WICKER MAN. (FWIW, Britt Ekland's dance in
    THE WICKER MAN is far more erotic than the more explicit sex of
    MIDSOMMAR.) There are also more special effects, though they are
    primarily in the service of either the gore, or various
    hallucinations, rather than any possible supernatural elements.

    Of interest to those who follow folk horror (see our review of
    WOODLANDS DARK AND DAYS BEWITCHED in the 01/06/23 issue), but
    obviously THE WICKER MAN (the original from 1973, not the 2006
    remake) should be seen before this. [-mrl/ecl]

    Released 03 July 2019. Rating: high +1 (-4 to +4) or 6/10

    Film Credits: <https://www.imdb.com/title/tt8772262/reference>

    What others are saying: <https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/midsommar>

    WE HAVE A GHOST (2023): WE HAVE A GHOST is a family-friendly
    (PG-13) horror comedy about a family that moves into a house with a
    ghost who tries to be scary, but is actually totally lost. He has
    no memory, can't talk (but can groan), and doesn't even seem to
    have come from the house. (He apparently can interact with the
    real world, but no one ever thinks to have him write answers to
    questions that might help solve his mystery. For that matter, his
    interactions with the real world seem inconsistent, or as one
    character describes it, "We can't touch you, but you can touch us?"
    [-ecl]

    Released on Netflix streaming 24 February 2023. Rating: low +1 (-4
    to +4) or 5/10

    Film Credits: <https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7798604/reference>

    What others are saying:
    <https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/we_have_a_ghost>

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: Roddenberry Archives Project and Otoy (comments by Greg
    Frederick)

    Here is a link for the Roddenberry Archives Project and Otoy below <https://home.otoy.com/roddenberryarchiveaug22/>

    And here is a link for a two-minute film called "Regeneration"
    which has an old CGI Spock in a hooded outfit and then a younger
    Spock (real actor) in a blue uniform: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KXU2Ob8gYY>

    The blue uniform Spock is an actor heavily made up to look like
    Spock (the likeness is amazing). Nimoy died in 2015 but look at
    the actor they got recently to be part of the Roddenberry Archives
    project to recreate old Star Trek episodes like "The Cage".

    [-gf]

    Mark commented:

    Hard to believe. [-mrl]

    Greg responded:

    Yes, hard to believe. Wait till you see what AI (artificial
    intelligence) and CGI has done to de-age Harrison Ford for the new
    "Indiana Jones" film coming this summer. They are using AI to mine
    thousands of old Ford video images from his early films to
    re-create a thirty-something Ford for part of that film and then
    blended and animated his early face with CGI. [-gf]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: A.I. Designs 3D Printed Rocket Engine (comments by Greg
    Frederick)

    Looks like AI is already designing a 3D printed rocket engine.
    It's a design no human designer ever created.

    Five-minute video here:
    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cms_v_OUXco>

    [-gf]

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: Re-Reading, Banshees, Mary Robinette Kowal (letter of
    comment by John Hertz)

    In response to comments in various issues of the MT VOID, John
    Hertz writes:

    I agree with E (VOID 2266, v. 41 n. 37 10 Mar) that CORIOLANUS
    (Shakespeare), THE HOBBIT (Tolkien), KIM (Kipling), MOBY-DICK
    (Melville), and Jane Austen are worth re-reading; and I have. I
    re-read the 1969 Penguin rev. of Harbage's 1967 ed'n of the
    COMPLETE WORKS (each play with its own editor; what H calls the
    "non-dramatic poetry" e.g. VENUS AND ADONIS, sonnets; introductory
    essays). I often quote Nabokov's "You never appreciate a good book
    until you read it at least a second time", see his wonderful
    LECTURES ON LITERATURE (F. Bowers ed. 1980), which incidentally has
    the best treatment of JYKYLL & HYDE I know (S pronounced the
    doctor's name jeek'l, it's Scots, as S was; to help pronounce N's
    name there's a book in it, na-*book*-off; he'd probably welcome
    [wherever he may be, 1899-1977] jokes on "Na book off", he used to
    point out that the difference between a thing's cosmic
    significance, and its comic significance, was a single sibilant).

    My Irish friend insists there is only one banshee (VOID 2267, v. 41
    n. 38, 17 Mar). I dunno.

    Here's a further reminder of Mary Robinette Kowal's range (VOID
    2267). Whe Discon III in the midst of its hardships found itself
    with no one in the chair, she stepped up to that task--which few
    pros have done; perhaps few could, it's very unlike their ordinary
    (if I may use that word) work. I was one of the Masquerade judges,
    as I often am; another was Jill Eastlake, as she often is; the
    third was Kowal--while chairing that Worldcon!--at which she was
    jes' find (hello, fellow POGO fans).

    ===================================================================

    TOPIC: This Week's Reading (book comments by Evelyn C. Leeper)

    The title page reads:

    Once Upon a TOME
    The Misadventures of a
    RARE BOOKSELLER,
    wherein the theory of the profession
    is partially explained, with a variety
    of insufficient examples. by
    Oliver Darkshire
    Interspersed with several diverting FOOTNOTES
    of a comical nature, ably ILLUSTRATED by
    Rohan Eason, PUBLISHED by W. W. Norton,
    and humbly proposed by the consideration of the
    public in this YEAR 2023

    (And the details: W. W. Norton & Co., ISBN 978-1-324-09207-0).

    As you can tell, this book is written with a certain amount of
    tongue in cheek. However, while of interest to those deeply into
    books and bookselling, it is not as amusing as the books of Shaun
    Bythell (THE DIARY OF A BOOKSELLER, CONFESSIONS OF A BOOKSELLER,
    REMAINDERS OF THE DAY, and SEVEN KINDS OF PEOPLE YOU FIND IN
    BOOKSHOPS) that I recommended in the 02/10/23 issue of the MT VOID.

    (I am not surprised that a company such as Norton, known for its
    anthologies of various branches of literature and its critical
    editions of classic works, would publish a book about rare
    bookselling. It did surprise me to learn that it is an
    employee-owned company, as opposed to being part of some media
    conglomerate.)

    [-ecl]


    ===================================================================

    Mark Leeper
    mleeper@optonline.net


    Reading is to the mind what exercise is to the body.
    --Sir Richard Stede

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  • From Gary McGath@21:1/5 to eleeper@optonline.net on Sun May 14 11:51:44 2023
    On 5/14/23 10:53 AM, eleeper@optonline.net wrote:
    I agree with E (VOID 2266, v. 41 n. 37 10 Mar) that CORIOLANUS
    (Shakespeare), THE HOBBIT (Tolkien), KIM (Kipling), MOBY-DICK
    (Melville), and Jane Austen are worth re-reading; and I have. I
    re-read the 1969 Penguin rev. of Harbage's 1967 ed'n of the
    COMPLETE WORKS (each play with its own editor; what H calls the
    "non-dramatic poetry" e.g. VENUS AND ADONIS, sonnets; introductory
    essays). I often quote Nabokov's "You never appreciate a good book
    until you read it at least a second time", see his wonderful
    LECTURES ON LITERATURE (F. Bowers ed. 1980), which incidentally has
    the best treatment of JYKYLL & HYDE I know (S pronounced the
    doctor's name jeek'l, it's Scots, as S was; to help pronounce N's
    name there's a book in it, na-*book*-off; he'd probably welcome
    [wherever he may be, 1899-1977] jokes on "Na book off", he used to
    point out that the difference between a thing's cosmic
    significance, and its comic significance, was a single sibilant).

    Much like the difference between the Italian words for winter (inverno)
    and Hell (inferno).

    --
    Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

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  • From Paul Dormer@21:1/5 to evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com on Sun May 14 17:34:00 2023
    In article <013674b3-4d22-46ad-877f-1ae212e74bb8n@googlegroups.com>, evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com () wrote:

    (FWIW, Britt Ekland's dance in
    THE WICKER MAN is far more erotic than the more explicit sex of
    MIDSOMMAR.)

    Apparently a body double was used for Ekland.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Dorothy J Heydt@21:1/5 to eleeper@optonline.net on Mon May 15 02:11:57 2023
    In article <013674b3-4d22-46ad-877f-1ae212e74bb8n@googlegroups.com>, eleeper@optonline.net <evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com> wrote:
    Here's a further reminder of Mary Robinette Kowal's range (VOID
    2267). Whe Discon III in the midst of its hardships found itself
    with no one in the chair, she stepped up to that task--which few
    pros have done; perhaps few could, it's very unlike their ordinary
    (if I may use that word) work. I was one of the Masquerade judges,
    as I often am; another was Jill Eastlake, as she often is; the
    third was Kowal--while chairing that Worldcon!--at which she was
    jes' find (hello, fellow POGO fans).

    (Hal Heydt)
    Small World Dept. My brother-in-law, George Mitchell, is an old
    friend of the Eastlakes.

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  • From Scott Dorsey@21:1/5 to Paul Dormer on Mon May 15 06:01:03 2023
    In article <memo.20230514173421.11852A@pauldormer.cix.co.uk>,
    Paul Dormer <prd@pauldormer.cix.co.uk> wrote:
    In article <013674b3-4d22-46ad-877f-1ae212e74bb8n@googlegroups.com>, >evelynchimelisleeper@gmail.com () wrote:

    (FWIW, Britt Ekland's dance in
    THE WICKER MAN is far more erotic than the more explicit sex of
    MIDSOMMAR.)

    Apparently a body double was used for Ekland.

    Whoever that body double is, they deserve an Oscar.
    --scott
    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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  • From Paul Dormer@21:1/5 to Dorsey on Mon May 15 11:47:00 2023
    In article <u3shqv$fap$1@panix2.panix.com>, kludge@panix.com (Scott
    Dorsey) wrote:

    Whoever that body double is, they deserve an Oscar.

    According to the IMDb, it was a stripper from Glasgow.

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  • From Keith F. Lynch@21:1/5 to Paul Dormer on Fri May 19 01:05:31 2023
    Paul Dormer <prd@pauldormer.cix.co.uk> wrote:
    . . .

    I'm glad to hear you're still here. I thought of you when I recently
    watched the Horrible Histories Prom on YouTube. Have you seen it,
    either in person or online?

    Horrible Histories also has a "Monarch Song," a really catchy tune
    that teaches the names of all the English/British kings and queens --
    including the latest one -- since 1066.

    Speaking of which, I also watched the coronation. It's interesting
    that they once again played Zadok the Priest for its intended purpose,
    for just the tenth time ever.

    It's interesting that Charles III is not a descendant of Charles I or
    Charles II, but his elsest son is descended from both -- and is also
    descended from someone who fought on the American side in the American Revolution.
    --
    Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
    Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

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  • From Paul Dormer@21:1/5 to Lynch on Fri May 19 12:56:00 2023
    In article <u46i0r$r35$1@reader2.panix.com>, kfl@KeithLynch.net (Keith F. Lynch) wrote:


    I'm glad to hear you're still here. I thought of you when I recently
    watched the Horrible Histories Prom on YouTube. Have you seen it,
    either in person or online?

    Horrible Histories was broadcast on the children's channel of the BBC and
    I never caught it. However, the team behind it did a comic fantasy
    series called Yonderland and went on to do the sitcom Ghosts. They also
    were involved in (but don't appear in) the US version of the sitcom.

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  • From Gary McGath@21:1/5 to Keith F. Lynch on Wed May 24 07:38:13 2023
    On 5/18/23 9:05 PM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:

    Speaking of which, I also watched the coronation. It's interesting
    that they once again played Zadok the Priest for its intended purpose,
    for just the tenth time ever.

    Do you mean the coronation of a king or something more specific?

    It expresses the wish each time that it will be the last time. ("May the
    king live forever.") So far that hasn't happened.

    Mozart wrote a Coronation Mass and a Coronation Concerto, neither of
    which was written specifically for a coronation.

    --
    Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

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  • From Gary McGath@21:1/5 to Keith F. Lynch on Wed May 24 13:40:48 2023
    On 5/18/23 9:05 PM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:

    Speaking of which, I also watched the coronation. It's interesting
    that they once again played Zadok the Priest for its intended purpose,
    for just the tenth time ever.

    I didn't follow the coronation, but during one bit which I happened to
    catch, The middle part of "Jupiter" from Holst's "The Planets" was sung
    as a hymn. Apparently the British have filked it.

    --
    Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

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  • From smw@21:1/5 to Gary McGath on Wed May 24 20:30:12 2023
    In <u4li7f$31fqi$1@dont-email.me> Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> writes:

    I didn't follow the coronation, but during one bit which I happened to
    catch, The middle part of "Jupiter" from Holst's "The Planets" was sung
    as a hymn. Apparently the British have filked it.

    Yes, they have:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Vow_to_Thee,_My_Country
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6ZvylOSy5A

    One of the concert bands I play with [ https://306wingconcertband.ca ] has
    an arrangement of it in our repertoire.

    - Steven
    --
    ___________________________________________________________________________ Steven Winikoff | "If you eat a live toad first thing in the
    Montreal, QC, Canada | morning, nothing worse will happen all day smw@smwonline.ca | long." -- California saying
    http://smwonline.ca |
    | "...to you or the toad."
    | -- Niven's restatement of California saying

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  • From Keith F. Lynch@21:1/5 to Gary McGath on Wed May 24 22:06:49 2023
    Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
    Keith F. Lynch wrote:
    Speaking of which, I also watched the coronation. It's interesting
    that they once again played Zadok the Priest for its intended
    purpose, for just the tenth time ever.

    Do you mean the coronation of a king or something more specific?

    King or Queen. Handel composed it about 300 years ago for the
    then-upcoming coronation of George II. It was used for him, and
    for the nine British coronations since then: George III, George IV,
    William IV, Victoria, Edward VII, George V, George VI, Elizabeth II,
    and Charles III. (Edward VIII didn't get a coronation.)

    It's used when the monarch is oiled (!) by a priest, as Zadok
    allegedly did with King Solomon. Coronations are very much religious ceremonies. Europe was scandalized when Napoleon crowned himself
    rather than letting a priest do it.

    It expresses the wish each time that it will be the last time.
    ("May the king live forever.") So far that hasn't happened.

    The last British king only made it to 56. But it's too soon to be
    sure that Charles III won't live forever.

    It's certainly been pointed out that if a monarch does live forever,
    that would spare the expense of future royal coronations and funerals.

    Trivia question: When and for whom was Britain's last royal funeral
    (i.e. funeral of a monarch) before that of Elizabeth II?

    Again I recommend Horrible Histories for lots of cool songs about lots
    of history. It can be found on YouTube. Thanks mostly to their very
    catchy Monarch Song I have memorized all the English/British rulers of
    the past thousand-odd years, without intending to.

    It's not quite filk, since I think all their tunes are original, but
    they're often based on other well-known tunes. For instance compare
    their "Borgia Family" song to the Addams Family TV show theme song.

    Another bit of trivia I independently discovered is that Elizabeth II
    ruled for more years than all the kings since the death of George III
    (whom the US fought its revolution against two and half centuries ago)
    put together.
    --
    Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
    Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

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  • From Gary McGath@21:1/5 to Keith F. Lynch on Wed May 24 19:59:59 2023
    On 5/24/23 6:06 PM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:

    It expresses the wish each time that it will be the last time.
    ("May the king live forever.") So far that hasn't happened.

    The last British king only made it to 56. But it's too soon to be
    sure that Charles III won't live forever.

    It's always too soon to say he will live forever.

    It's certainly been pointed out that if a monarch does live forever,
    that would spare the expense of future royal coronations and funerals.

    Trivia question: When and for whom was Britain's last royal funeral
    (i.e. funeral of a monarch) before that of Elizabeth II?

    I would assume George VI's funeral, around 1952. Wikipedia confirms
    that's when his funeral was. I was an infant then.


    Again I recommend Horrible Histories for lots of cool songs about lots
    of history. It can be found on YouTube. Thanks mostly to their very
    catchy Monarch Song I have memorized all the English/British rulers of
    the past thousand-odd years, without intending to.

    It's not quite filk, since I think all their tunes are original, but
    they're often based on other well-known tunes. For instance compare
    their "Borgia Family" song to the Addams Family TV show theme song.

    I just listened to "The Borgia Family," because of my interest in the
    early modern period. Good one.

    Another bit of trivia I independently discovered is that Elizabeth II
    ruled for more years than all the kings since the death of George III
    (whom the US fought its revolution against two and half centuries ago)
    put together.

    George III himself was on the throne for a long time. The US fought not
    only the Revolution but the War of 1812 against him.


    --
    Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

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  • From Dorothy J Heydt@21:1/5 to garym@mcgath.com on Thu May 25 00:26:59 2023
    In article <u4m8e0$356cl$1@dont-email.me>,
    Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
    George III himself was on the throne for a long time. The US fought not
    only the Revolution but the War of 1812 against him.

    (Hal Heydt)
    That period would also include the undeclared Naval war in the
    Caribbeann with the US and UK on one side and the French on the
    other.

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  • From Gary R. Schmidt@21:1/5 to Gary McGath on Thu May 25 13:20:15 2023
    On 25/05/2023 09:59, Gary McGath wrote:
    On 5/24/23 6:06 PM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:

    It expresses the wish each time that it will be the last time.
    ("May the king live forever.")  So far that hasn't happened.

    The last British king only made it to 56.  But it's too soon to be
    sure that Charles III won't live forever.

    It's always too soon to say he will live forever.

    It's certainly been pointed out that if a monarch does live forever,
    that would spare the expense of future royal coronations and funerals.

    Trivia question:  When and for whom was Britain's last royal funeral
    (i.e. funeral of a monarch) before that of Elizabeth II?

    I would assume George VI's funeral, around 1952. Wikipedia confirms
    that's when his funeral was. I was an infant then.

    The Queen Mum, I'd reck.

    Cheers,
    Gary B-)

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  • From Tim Merrigan@21:1/5 to kfl@KeithLynch.net on Wed May 24 21:32:15 2023
    On Wed, 24 May 2023 22:06:49 -0000 (UTC), "Keith F. Lynch"
    <kfl@KeithLynch.net> wrote:

    Trivia question: When and for whom was Britain's last royal funeral
    (i.e. funeral of a monarch) before that of Elizabeth II?

    Richard III

    --

    Qualified immunity = virtual impunity.

    Tim Merrigan

    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com

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  • From Keith F. Lynch@21:1/5 to Gary R. Schmidt on Thu May 25 04:23:05 2023
    Gary R. Schmidt <grschmidt@acm.org> wrote:
    Gary McGath wrote:
    Keith F. Lynch wrote:
    The last British king only made it to 56. But it's too soon to be
    sure that Charles III won't live forever.

    It's always too soon to say he will live forever.

    True. But it's never too soon to say that he might. If not, maybe
    his eldest son, who will likely be styled William V. Or his eldest
    son's eldest son, who will likely rule as George VII before the end
    of this century.

    Trivia question: When and for whom was Britain's last royal funeral
    (i.e. funeral of a monarch) before that of Elizabeth II?

    I would assume George VI's funeral, around 1952.

    Good guess, but wrong.

    The Queen Mum, I'd reck.

    Elizabeth's mother was never a monarch. Neither was her husband.
    --
    Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
    Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Keith F. Lynch@21:1/5 to Tim Merrigan on Thu May 25 04:43:34 2023
    Tim Merrigan <tppm@ca.rr.com> wrote:
    "Keith F. Lynch" <kfl@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
    Trivia question: When and for whom was Britain's last royal funeral
    (i.e. funeral of a monarch) before that of Elizabeth II?

    Richard III

    Correct. After he was killed in battle at Bosworth Field in 1485, his
    funeral was held -- 530 years later in 2015, after his body was found
    in a car park (ObUS: parking lot).

    A related bit of royal weirdness is that several British people alive
    today were probably conceived in the same bed that Henry VIII was
    conceived in: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/henry-viis-marriage-bed-may-have-spent-15-years-british-hotels-honeymoon-suite-180971485/
    (Henry VIII was the son of the guy who defeated Richard III.)
    --
    Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
    Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Keith F. Lynch@21:1/5 to Gary R. Schmidt on Thu May 25 12:35:50 2023
    Gary R. Schmidt <grschmidt@acm.org> wrote:
    Keith F. Lynch wrote:
    Elizabeth's mother was never a monarch. Neither was her husband.

    A Queen Regnant, no, but definitely a Monarch.

    And I am sure her husband was a King Regnant, something about his
    brother abdicating the throne in 1936 or thereabouts, thus ascending on December 11th, IIRC, with the formal Coronation at Westminster Abbey on
    May 12th, 1937.

    Sorry, by "her" I meant QEII, not her mother. Prince Philip
    (1921-2021) was never king.
    --
    Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
    Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Gary R. Schmidt@21:1/5 to Keith F. Lynch on Thu May 25 22:16:25 2023
    On 25/05/2023 14:23, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
    Gary R. Schmidt <grschmidt@acm.org> wrote:
    Gary McGath wrote:
    Keith F. Lynch wrote:
    The last British king only made it to 56. But it's too soon to be
    sure that Charles III won't live forever.

    It's always too soon to say he will live forever.

    True. But it's never too soon to say that he might. If not, maybe
    his eldest son, who will likely be styled William V. Or his eldest
    son's eldest son, who will likely rule as George VII before the end
    of this century.

    Trivia question: When and for whom was Britain's last royal funeral
    (i.e. funeral of a monarch) before that of Elizabeth II?

    I would assume George VI's funeral, around 1952.

    Good guess, but wrong.

    The Queen Mum, I'd reck.

    Elizabeth's mother was never a monarch. Neither was her husband.

    A Queen Regnant, no, but definitely a Monarch.

    And I am sure her husband was a King Regnant, something about his
    brother abdicating the throne in 1936 or thereabouts, thus ascending on December 11th, IIRC, with the formal Coronation at Westminster Abbey on
    May 12th, 1937.

    I am sure it was in all the 'papers, I cannot understand how you could
    have missed it!

    Cheers,
    Gary B-)

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  • From Keith F. Lynch@21:1/5 to Gary McGath on Fri May 26 00:06:37 2023
    Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
    I just listened to "The Borgia Family," because of my interest in
    the early modern period. Good one.

    I also recommend "Born to Rule," the "All New Monarch Song," "Sweet
    King Richard III," and "The Wives of Henry VIII." All of those are
    are mostly early modern.

    Another bit of trivia I independently discovered is that Elizabeth II
    ruled for more years than all the kings since the death of George III
    (whom the US fought its revolution against two and half centuries ago)
    put together.

    Though it's a close-run thing. The kings will pull ahead on November
    3rd of next year. (Unless King Charles, his son William, and *his*
    son George all die before then, in which case Charlotte (currently age
    8) becomes queen. Or, more likely, unless the UK votes to abolish the monarchy.)

    George III himself was on the throne for a long time.

    Right. Longer than any other British (or English) king before or
    since. But shorter than either of the latest two British queens.
    And the current king won't break George III's record unless he
    lives to age 133. Or his mother's record unless he lives to 143.

    The US fought not only the Revolution but the War of 1812 against
    him.

    Right, technically speaking. But that was during the Regency period,
    so it was actually the future George IV who was prosecuting the war.

    If you toss Victoria in the balance, making it a race between kings
    and queens, that more than compensates for the whole of George III's
    reign. I used my mad computer skills to figure out just how far back
    you'd have to go for kings and queens to have ruled for an equal
    amount of time since then. The answer, as of today (May 25th), is
    January 16th, 1755, during the reign of George II. This date moved
    back by one day per day during the whole of Elizabeth II's rule,
    reaching May 2nd, 1754 when she died, and it has been moving forward
    by one day per day ever since.
    --
    Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
    Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Scott Dorsey@21:1/5 to Keith F. Lynch on Fri May 26 14:00:35 2023
    In article <u4ot6d$1sg$1@reader2.panix.com>,
    Keith F. Lynch <kfl@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
    Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
    I just listened to "The Borgia Family," because of my interest in
    the early modern period. Good one.

    I also recommend "Born to Rule," the "All New Monarch Song," "Sweet
    King Richard III," and "The Wives of Henry VIII." All of those are
    are mostly early modern.

    Ever one was an 'enery. She wouldn't take a Willie or a Sam. No sir.
    --scott

    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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  • From Gary McGath@21:1/5 to Keith F. Lynch on Fri May 26 13:05:42 2023
    On 5/25/23 8:06 PM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
    Gary McGath<garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
    I just listened to "The Borgia Family," because of my interest in
    the early modern period. Good one.
    I also recommend "Born to Rule," the "All New Monarch Song," "Sweet
    King Richard III," and "The Wives of Henry VIII." All of those are
    are mostly early modern.


    The only unfortunate thing is that some of them are designated "kids'
    videos," which means I can't save them to a list for future reference.
    This is somehow supposed to protect children.

    --
    Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

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  • From Tim Merrigan@21:1/5 to kfl@KeithLynch.net on Fri May 26 12:54:41 2023
    On Fri, 26 May 2023 00:06:37 -0000 (UTC), "Keith F. Lynch"
    <kfl@KeithLynch.net> wrote:

    Though it's a close-run thing. The kings will pull ahead on November
    3rd of next year. (Unless King Charles, his son William, and *his*
    son George all die before then, in which case Charlotte (currently age
    8) becomes queen. Or, more likely, unless the UK votes to abolish the >monarchy.)

    I thought that under the new inheritance law, Charlotte, being second
    born, would be second in line, before George.
    --

    Qualified immunity = virtual impunity.

    Tim Merrigan

    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com

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  • From Keith F. Lynch@21:1/5 to Tim Merrigan on Sat May 27 00:51:45 2023
    Tim Merrigan <tppm@ca.rr.com> wrote:
    "Keith F. Lynch" <kfl@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
    (Unless King Charles, his son William, and *his* son George all
    die before then, in which case Charlotte (currently age 8) becomes
    queen. Or, more likely, unless the UK votes to abolish the monarchy.)

    I thought that under the new inheritance law, Charlotte, being second
    born, would be second in line, before George.

    Huh? Charlotte is second born *because* George is first born. Who
    did you think was William's first-born child?

    So if King Charles dies, his first-born child William becomes king,
    and if William dies -- before or after Charles -- William's first-born
    child George becomes king. Only if all three are dead does Charlotte
    become queen.

    It still feels weird that all these people, except Charles, are
    younger than me. I remember reading a newspaper article announcing
    the birth of William, and saying that people in the county neighboring
    mine -- Prince William County -- were thrilled, even though it was
    named for a different British prince of that name -- in 1731. Fairfax
    County, where I live, split off from it in 1742. My reading that
    article feels very recent, though he's in his 40s now.
    --
    Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
    Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Tim Merrigan@21:1/5 to kfl@KeithLynch.net on Fri May 26 19:02:44 2023
    On Sat, 27 May 2023 00:51:45 -0000 (UTC), "Keith F. Lynch"
    <kfl@KeithLynch.net> wrote:

    Tim Merrigan <tppm@ca.rr.com> wrote:
    "Keith F. Lynch" <kfl@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
    (Unless King Charles, his son William, and *his* son George all
    die before then, in which case Charlotte (currently age 8) becomes
    queen. Or, more likely, unless the UK votes to abolish the monarchy.)

    I thought that under the new inheritance law, Charlotte, being second
    born, would be second in line, before George.

    Huh? Charlotte is second born *because* George is first born. Who
    did you think was William's first-born child?

    So if King Charles dies, his first-born child William becomes king,
    and if William dies -- before or after Charles -- William's first-born
    child George becomes king. Only if all three are dead does Charlotte
    become queen.

    It still feels weird that all these people, except Charles, are
    younger than me. I remember reading a newspaper article announcing
    the birth of William, and saying that people in the county neighboring
    mine -- Prince William County -- were thrilled, even though it was
    named for a different British prince of that name -- in 1731. Fairfax >County, where I live, split off from it in 1742. My reading that
    article feels very recent, though he's in his 40s now.

    Sorry, I was thinking of Louis. And I forgot about William

    So it's William > George > Charlotte > Louis > Harry > Archie >
    Lilibet, unless I missed someone.
    --

    Qualified immunity = virtual impunity.

    Tim Merrigan

    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
    www.avg.com

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  • From Keith F. Lynch@21:1/5 to Gary McGath on Sat May 27 16:46:16 2023
    Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
    Keith F. Lynch wrote:
    I also recommend "Born to Rule," the "All New Monarch Song," "Sweet
    King Richard III," and "The Wives of Henry VIII." All of those are
    are mostly early modern.

    The only unfortunate thing is that some of them are designated
    "kids' videos," which means I can't save them to a list for future
    reference. This is somehow supposed to protect children.

    Whatever app you're using, if it doesn't let you save whatever you
    want to a list, why don't you bury it at a crossroads at midnight and
    salt the earth.

    Those videos aren't just for children. For instance the Wives of
    Henry VIII song ends with a snippet of Greensleeves. I'm sure very
    few children would recognize that tune, and even fewer would know that
    the authorship of that song is traditionally (albeit wrongly) credited
    to Henry VIII.
    --
    Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
    Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

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  • From Jay E. Morris@21:1/5 to Keith F. Lynch on Sun May 28 06:50:42 2023
    On 5/27/2023 11:46 AM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
    Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
    Keith F. Lynch wrote:
    I also recommend "Born to Rule," the "All New Monarch Song," "Sweet
    King Richard III," and "The Wives of Henry VIII." All of those are
    are mostly early modern.

    The only unfortunate thing is that some of them are designated
    "kids' videos," which means I can't save them to a list for future
    reference. This is somehow supposed to protect children.

    Whatever app you're using, if it doesn't let you save whatever you
    want to a list, why don't you bury it at a crossroads at midnight and
    salt the earth.

    Those videos aren't just for children. For instance the Wives of
    Henry VIII song ends with a snippet of Greensleeves. I'm sure very
    few children would recognize that tune, and even fewer would know that
    the authorship of that song is traditionally (albeit wrongly) credited
    to Henry VIII.

    Youtube won't let you save it to your Youtube list.

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  • From Paul Dormer@21:1/5 to Lynch on Tue May 30 11:56:00 2023
    In article <u4ot6d$1sg$1@reader2.panix.com>, kfl@KeithLynch.net (Keith F. Lynch) wrote:

    The US fought not only the Revolution but the War of 1812 against
    him.

    Right, technically speaking. But that was during the Regency period,
    so it was actually the future George IV who was prosecuting the war.

    Although by George III's time, the monarch had little say in government
    policy and it was Lord North and his cabinet who were actually
    prosecuting the war. Indeed, I've seen it said that Americans made
    George III the villain because Lord North wasn't so well known.

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  • From Keith F. Lynch@21:1/5 to Paul Dormer on Sun Jun 4 17:11:22 2023
    Paul Dormer <prd@pauldormer.cix.co.uk> wrote:
    kfl@KeithLynch.net (Keith F. Lynch) wrote:
    Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
    The US fought not only the Revolution but the War of 1812 against him.

    Right, technically speaking. But that was during the Regency period,
    so it was actually the future George IV who was prosecuting the war.

    Although by George III's time, the monarch had little say in
    government policy and it was Lord North and his cabinet who were
    actually prosecuting the war. Indeed, I've seen it said that
    Americans made George III the villain because Lord North wasn't
    so well known.

    According to Wikipedia, the PM during the War of 1812 was no longer
    Frederick North, but Robert Jenkinson. And there were nine other PMs
    between them.

    One good thing about monarchs is that there are fewer of them per
    century, so they're easier to remember.

    Why was England's Edward I called Edward I rather than Edward IV?
    He was preceded by three previous English kings named Edward:
    Edward the Elder, Edward the Martyr, and Edward the Confessor.

    As such, Edward is in the lead for regnal names, with eleven of them
    ruling England or Britain, starting in the 9th century and ending with
    two in the 20th.

    And why does the adjective "Edwardian" refer only the reign of the
    penultimate one, Ed VII? Why not instead honor the one who was killed
    by a red-hot poker shoved where the sun don't shine?

    ObFandom: Fan Writers of America elects past presidents of the club,
    but never current presidents. I suggest that the US choose former
    figurehead monarchs of the US, based on what's the smallest set of US
    citizens such that at least one was alive at every moment from 1776
    until just before the present. For instance perhaps there's someone
    born in 1770 who lived until 1880, and another who was born in 1870
    and lived until 1980, and another born in 1970 who died yesterday.
    That third monarch will be retroactively replaced tomorrow by someone
    who dies today. This will make it easy to learn the list of all
    (except the one most recent) US monarchs.
    --
    Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
    Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

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  • From Gary McGath@21:1/5 to Keith F. Lynch on Sun Jun 4 14:51:20 2023
    On 6/4/23 1:11 PM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
    Why was England's Edward I called Edward I rather than Edward IV?
    He was preceded by three previous English kings named Edward:
    Edward the Elder, Edward the Martyr, and Edward the Confessor.

    The current nominal King of Canada is called Charles III, even though
    there was no King Charles I or II of Canada. However, Charles IX, a
    French king, ruled over an area called Canada, part of what is now
    Quebec, in the 16th century.

    George III was the first British monarch to rule over lands called
    Canada, if you count Upper Canada and Lower Canada. Victoria was the
    first British monarch over a land called Canada without qualifying
    adjectives.

    --
    Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

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  • From Peter Trei@21:1/5 to smw on Tue Jun 6 11:41:29 2023
    On Wednesday, May 24, 2023 at 4:31:18 PM UTC-4, smw wrote:
    In <u4li7f$31fqi$1...@dont-email.me> Gary McGath <ga...@mcgath.com> writes:

    I didn't follow the coronation, but during one bit which I happened to >catch, The middle part of "Jupiter" from Holst's "The Planets" was sung
    as a hymn. Apparently the British have filked it.
    Yes, they have:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Vow_to_Thee,_My_Country https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6ZvylOSy5A

    One of the concert bands I play with [ https://306wingconcertband.ca ] has an arrangement of it in our repertoire.

    They also played 'Jupiter' (without singing) while guests were filing in.

    I've heard the hymn sung only once, about 35 years ago, and have assiduously. avoided it ever since, since it destroys my enjoyment of the music as music. I've pretty well managed to supress it, finally.

    I have a similar problem with 'Lord of the Dance', and have been trying for a long
    time to replace it in my head with 'Simple Things', the original and much better lyric.
    I don't think I'll ever hear 'Appalachian Spring' without words in my head.

    pt

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  • From Gary McGath@21:1/5 to Peter Trei on Tue Jun 6 21:04:10 2023
    On 6/6/23 2:41 PM, Peter Trei wrote:
    I have a similar problem with 'Lord of the Dance', and have been trying for a long
    time to replace it in my head with 'Simple Things', the original and much better lyric.
    I don't think I'll ever hear 'Appalachian Spring' without words in my head.

    "Simple Gifts."

    --
    Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

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  • From Keith F. Lynch@21:1/5 to Gary McGath on Wed Jun 7 03:49:53 2023
    Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
    Keith F. Lynch wrote:
    Why was England's Edward I called Edward I rather than Edward IV?
    He was preceded by three previous English kings named Edward:
    Edward the Elder, Edward the Martyr, and Edward the Confessor.

    The current nominal King of Canada is called Charles III, even
    though there was no King Charles I or II of Canada.

    Newfoundland, which is currently part of Canada, was already an
    established English colony at the time of Charles I and Charles II.
    --
    Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
    Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Gary McGath@21:1/5 to Keith F. Lynch on Wed Jun 7 10:27:49 2023
    On 6/6/23 11:49 PM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
    Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
    Keith F. Lynch wrote:
    Why was England's Edward I called Edward I rather than Edward IV?
    He was preceded by three previous English kings named Edward:
    Edward the Elder, Edward the Martyr, and Edward the Confessor.

    The current nominal King of Canada is called Charles III, even
    though there was no King Charles I or II of Canada.

    Newfoundland, which is currently part of Canada, was already an
    established English colony at the time of Charles I and Charles II.

    But no land under British rule was called Canada until the British took
    Quebec from France, so Charles I and II weren't kings of Canada.

    --
    Gary McGath http://www.mcgath.com

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  • From Scott Dorsey@21:1/5 to garym@mcgath.com on Wed Jun 7 20:59:39 2023
    In article <u5q456$15bfh$1@dont-email.me>,
    Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
    On 6/6/23 11:49 PM, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
    Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
    Keith F. Lynch wrote:
    Why was England's Edward I called Edward I rather than Edward IV?
    He was preceded by three previous English kings named Edward:
    Edward the Elder, Edward the Martyr, and Edward the Confessor.

    The current nominal King of Canada is called Charles III, even
    though there was no King Charles I or II of Canada.

    Newfoundland, which is currently part of Canada, was already an
    established English colony at the time of Charles I and Charles II.

    But no land under British rule was called Canada until the British took >Quebec from France, so Charles I and II weren't kings of Canada.

    A few years ago my nephew was asked in class if Canada had a president or
    a king and he stood up and said "It's Mario Lemieux!"
    --scott

    --
    "C'est un Nagra. C'est suisse, et tres, tres precis."

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  • From Keith F. Lynch@21:1/5 to Gary McGath on Wed Jun 7 21:37:16 2023
    Gary McGath <garym@mcgath.com> wrote:
    But no land under British rule was called Canada until the British
    took Quebec from France, so Charles I and II weren't kings of Canada.

    I wish the British had fireproofed Quebec. I'm annoyed by all the
    smoke from there this week. It shouldn't be possible to comfortably
    stare directly at the sun, the air should be clean, the sky should
    be blue, and the daily high temperature in June here in Virginia
    shouldn't be in the 70s. I'm only comfortable when it's over 80
    (27 C).
    --
    Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
    Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Peter Trei@21:1/5 to Gary McGath on Thu Jun 8 09:36:56 2023
    On Tuesday, June 6, 2023 at 9:04:13 PM UTC-4, Gary McGath wrote:
    On 6/6/23 2:41 PM, Peter Trei wrote:
    I have a similar problem with 'Lord of the Dance', and have been trying for a long
    time to replace it in my head with 'Simple Things', the original and much better lyric.
    I don't think I'll ever hear 'Appalachian Spring' without words in my head.
    "Simple Gifts."

    Thankyou!

    pt

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  • From Peter Trei@21:1/5 to Keith F. Lynch on Thu Jun 8 09:43:52 2023
    On Wednesday, June 7, 2023 at 5:37:18 PM UTC-4, Keith F. Lynch wrote:
    Gary McGath <ga...@mcgath.com> wrote:
    But no land under British rule was called Canada until the British
    took Quebec from France, so Charles I and II weren't kings of Canada.
    I wish the British had fireproofed Quebec. I'm annoyed by all the
    smoke from there this week. It shouldn't be possible to comfortably
    stare directly at the sun, the air should be clean, the sky should
    be blue, and the daily high temperature in June here in Virginia
    shouldn't be in the 70s. I'm only comfortable when it's over 80
    (27 C).

    Wunderground.com has a map that shows live pollutant levels.
    At the moment, here in northern MA, the air is fine, but that could
    change quickly (its also 59F and showery). But the air gets rapidly
    worse as you move south, and is especially bad in Keith's neck of the
    woods. The pollution continues all the way down into Georgia.

    pt

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  • From Keith F. Lynch@21:1/5 to Keith F. Lynch on Thu Jun 8 22:20:09 2023
    Keith F. Lynch <kfl@KeithLynch.net> wrote:
    I wish the British had fireproofed Quebec. I'm annoyed by all the
    smoke from there this week. It shouldn't be possible to comfortably
    stare directly at the sun, the air should be clean, the sky should
    be blue, and the daily high temperature in June here in Virginia
    shouldn't be in the 70s. I'm only comfortable when it's over 80
    (27 C).

    It does have upsides. At about noon today I climbed on the roof of
    my brother's house to clean the roof gutters, as I do every June and
    December. Although it was sunny and there were no clouds in the sky,
    the roof wasn't too hot to touch. In past years I've had to do this
    early in the morning. And right now the sun is shining directly on my
    computer screen, but I don't need to block the sun or even turn up the
    screen's brightness.

    If only my eyes weren't so itchy and my N95 masks weren't turning
    visibly dirty in a matter of hours.
    --
    Keith F. Lynch - http://keithlynch.net/
    Please see http://keithlynch.net/email.html before emailing me.

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