Giovanni Drogo schrieb am Donnerstag, 14. Januar 2010 um 17:26:07 UTC+1:

The Milan-Munich night train (Kurswagen) is gone since several years,
and I've recently discovered that there is not a single day train from Villach to Tarvisio (despite a new line was built in Italy southwards of Tarvisio).

There will be an overnight service from Munich to Genoa via
Villach - Tarvisio Boscoverde - Milan from next December.
In the current timetable, it is Munich <-> Milan.

Regards, ULF

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Giovanni Drogo schrieb am Donnerstag, 22. September 2022 um 09:55:18 UTC+2:

On Tue, 20 Sep 2022, Ulf Kutzner wrote:

Giovanni Drogo schrieb am Donnerstag, 14. Januar 2010 um 17:26:07 UTC+1:

The Milan-Munich night train (Kurswagen) is gone since several years,

There will be an overnight service from Munich to Genoa via

Thanks for the answer after 12 years !!! :-)

Great to have you here again...

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On Tue, 20 Sep 2022, Ulf Kutzner wrote:

Giovanni Drogo schrieb am Donnerstag, 14. Januar 2010 um 17:26:07 UTC+1:

The Milan-Munich night train (Kurswagen) is gone since several years,

There will be an overnight service from Munich to Genoa via

Thanks for the answer after 12 years !!! :-)

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On Thu, 22 Sep 2022, Ulf Kutzner wrote:

Great to have you here again...

Never been away. mtre is still in my .newsrc, so I do a daily cursory
scan (in "catchup mode", only new messages). But usually no new posts
are found.

Unfortunately most Usenet newsgroups are deserted (except some comp.*
and a few others, and, unfortunately, some pestered by spammers or
fanatics).

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Giovanni Drogo <drogo@rn.bastiani.ta.invalid> wrote:

On Thu, 22 Sep 2022, Ulf Kutzner wrote:

Great to have you here again...

Never been away. mtre is still in my .newsrc, so I do a daily cursory
scan (in "catchup mode", only new messages). But usually no new posts
are found.

Unfortunately most Usenet newsgroups are deserted (except some comp.*
and a few others, and, unfortunately, some pestered by spammers or
fanatics).

uk.railway isn't doing too badly. Also discussing Trenitalia crossborder problems: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/sep/19/why-cant-i-book-a-train-how-avanti-west-coast-hit-the-buffers
(the border being the English/Scottish one)

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Giovanni Drogo schrieb am Donnerstag, 22. September 2022 um 09:55:18 UTC+2:

On Tue, 20 Sep 2022, Ulf Kutzner wrote:

Giovanni Drogo schrieb am Donnerstag, 14. Januar 2010 um 17:26:07 UTC+1:

The Milan-Munich night train (Kurswagen) is gone since several years,

There will be an overnight service from Munich to Genoa via

Thanks for the answer after

A bit faster this time, as developments are:

The coming overnight service has been rescheduled/extended to La Spezia.

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On Fri, 18 Nov 2022, Ulf Kutzner wrote:

The Milan-Munich night train (Kurswagen) is gone since several years,

There will be an overnight service from Munich to Genoa via

A bit faster this time, as developments are:
The coming overnight service has been rescheduled/extended to La Spezia.

When ? With the next winter timetable ? And which route ?
So far I see only an EN235 departing Milan around 9 pm (21:25 Lambrate)
which goes via Villach-Salzburg (not Brenner) reaching Munich at 09:21
(the old service via Verona-Brenner arrived much earlier before 7 am).

The Lambrate departure timetables marks it as TI (Trenitalia) buyt I
suspect it is OeBB

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Giovanni Drogo schrieb am Samstag, 19. November 2022 um 20:51:53 UTC+1:

On Fri, 18 Nov 2022, Ulf Kutzner wrote:

The Milan-Munich night train (Kurswagen) is gone since several years, >>> There will be an overnight service from Munich to Genoa via

A bit faster this time, as developments are:
The coming overnight service has been rescheduled/extended to La Spezia.

When ? With the next winter timetable ?

As far as I understand.

And which route ?

Via Geno(v)a - Rapallo.

So far I see only an EN235 departing Milan around 9 pm (21:25 Lambrate)
which goes via Villach-Salzburg (not Brenner) reaching Munich at 09:21
(the old service via Verona-Brenner arrived much earlier before 7 am).

The Lambrate departure timetables marks it as TI (Trenitalia) buyt I
suspect it is OeBB

Maybe Trenitalia may sell tickets?

Regards, ULF

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On Sun, 20 Nov 2022, Ulf Kutzner wrote:

And which route ?

Via Geno(v)a - Rapallo.

I meant which route across the Alps (the other was obvious, I do not
know if any through train nowadays goes through the Pontremolese,
although there used to be some Milano-Livorno). In the past all through
trains from (Milano or Bologna to) Verona to Munich travelled via
Brenner (this applied to the old night Kurswagen, the daytime EC like
Leonardo da Vinci, and to the recent - some 5 years ago - daytime EC's
from Bologna, which required change at Verona for Milan, I took it
from/to Fortezza/Franzenfeste to change for S.Candido/Innichen ... I
guess it was an OeBB train operated by Trenord in Italy).

Now as I said EN235 goes via Villach-Salzburg (not Brenner)

The Lambrate departure timetables marks it as TI (Trenitalia) buyt I
suspect it is OeBB

Maybe Trenitalia may sell tickets?

This should not have any reference to the indication of the "operator"
on the timetables. AFAIK a ticket office, at least one at an RFI station
but not only (I bought a Milano-Chivasso-Aosta at Sesto SG where the
ticket office is Trenord, and the return at Aosta ... the trains I guess
are TN+TI and TI+TN ... but I would not swear on the Milan-Turin IR
being TN, although some Milan-Bologna IR are TPER), sells all kinds of
tickets.

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Giovanni Drogo schrieb am Samstag, 19. November 2022 um 20:51:53 UTC+1:

On Fri, 18 Nov 2022, Ulf Kutzner wrote:

The Milan-Munich night train (Kurswagen) is gone since several years, >>> There will be an overnight service from Munich to Genoa via

A bit faster this time, as developments are:
The coming overnight service has been rescheduled/extended to La Spezia.

When ? With the next winter timetable ? And which route ?
So far I see only an EN235 departing Milan around 9 pm (21:25 Lambrate)
which goes via Villach-Salzburg (not Brenner) reaching Munich at 09:21
(the old service via Verona-Brenner arrived much earlier before 7 am).

The Lambrate departure timetables marks it as TI (Trenitalia) buyt I
suspect it is OeBB

Strange, by the way, as it should be, for the period to come,
Rogoredo.

Regards, ULF

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Giovanni Drogo schrieb am Sonntag, 20. November 2022 um 22:52:50 UTC+1:

On Sun, 20 Nov 2022, Ulf Kutzner wrote:

And which route ?

Via Geno(v)a - Rapallo.

I meant which route across the Alps (the other was obvious, I do not
know if any through train nowadays goes through the Pontremolese,
although there used to be some Milano-Livorno). In the past all through trains from (Milano or Bologna to) Verona to Munich travelled via
Brenner (this applied to the old night Kurswagen, the daytime EC like Leonardo da Vinci, and to the recent - some 5 years ago - daytime EC's
from Bologna, which required change at Verona for Milan, I took it
from/to Fortezza/Franzenfeste to change for S.Candido/Innichen ... I
guess it was an OeBB train operated by Trenord in Italy).

Now as I said EN235 goes via Villach-Salzburg (not Brenner)

Salzburg isn't that far from Munich but carriages shall be switched
at Villach Hbf from train 295.

Regards, ULF

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On Mon, 21 Nov 2022, Ulf Kutzner wrote:

When ? With the next winter timetable ? And which route ?
So far I see only an EN235 departing Milan around 9 pm (21:25 Lambrate)

Strange, by the way, as it should be, for the period to come,
Rogoredo.

Not strange (the station) if it *will be* a relation between Ligury (La
Spezia, Genova) and Austria and Germany. It could serve Milan only
stopping at Rogoredo, then turning east after PM Trecca, unless it
reverses somewhere. The *current* train shoulds originate at Centrale
and stop also at Lambrate.

In the '80s (I should have an old timetable in a drawer) there were
sleeper relations to Chiasso-Basel-(Frankfurt, Amsterdam) (I believe Milan-Munich were always Kurswagen reattached in Verona). There were at
least two in the late evening (the Amsterdam one left earlier), one
departed from Centrale, the other came from Genova or Bologna and
stopped at Lambrate ... I remember quite well the sleepers were at the
tail, often beyond the end of the platform !).

One can go through Lambrate coming from Genova or Bologna, if one goes
north (Chiasso) but not if one goes east (Verona), as the branch is
between Rogoredo and Lambrate.

There are some Rome-Turin Frecciarossa which, to avoid reversal at
Centrale, do stop at Rogoredo (they stop also at Garibaldi, I suppose to
avoid reversal ythey go through the "umbrella handle" ... but the few
times I was on one of those it was simpler to alight at Rogoredo and
take the underground ... I had an idea it was quicker anyhow).

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Giovanni Drogo schrieb am Sonntag, 20. November 2022 um 22:52:50 UTC+1:

On Sun, 20 Nov 2022, Ulf Kutzner wrote:

The Lambrate departure timetables marks it as TI (Trenitalia) buyt I
suspect it is OeBB

Maybe Trenitalia may sell tickets?

This should not have any reference to the indication of the "operator"
on the timetables. AFAIK a ticket office, at least one at an RFI station
but not only (I bought a Milano-Chivasso-Aosta at Sesto SG where the
ticket office is Trenord, and the return at Aosta ... the trains I guess
are TN+TI and TI+TN ... but I would not swear on the Milan-Turin IR
being TN, although some Milan-Bologna IR are TPER), sells all kinds of tickets.

The TI website offers tickets for EC 326 from 9,90 Genova -> Rogoredo
for December 12th.

Looks like commercially there is a TI EC added to or within the
ÖBB NJ.

Regards, ULF

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