• Living in US / Inheriting assets in Switzerland - IRS reporting

    From tb@21:1/5 to All on Fri Feb 24 10:55:19 2023
    The following question was posted on an online forum for Swiss
    citizens. What do the tax experts here have to say?
    Thanks.

    ***quote***
    I am Swiss, but a US resident. My father passed away end of October
    2022 and I inherited some assets in Switzerland (jointly with my
    siblings). We are just now, in February 2023, finalizing the
    inheritance inventory and the sealing of the inheritance.

    My question is, with regards to reporting the inheritance to the IRS in
    the US, do I report the receipt of the inheritance for the year 2022,
    because I automatically became a joint owner of the inheritance
    immediately on my father's death, even though the inheritance was not
    sealed and I could still reject it, and I could not dispose of the
    assets yet - or do I only report the receipt of the inheritance for the
    year 2023 once the inheritance has been sealed, when I can actually
    control the assets?
    ***unquote***

    --
    tb

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  • From Stuart O. Bronstein@21:1/5 to nospam@example.invalid on Fri Feb 24 12:25:34 2023
    "tb" <nospam@example.invalid> wrote:

    The following question was posted on an online forum for Swiss
    citizens. What do the tax experts here have to say?
    Thanks.

    ***quote***
    I am Swiss, but a US resident. My father passed away end of
    October 2022 and I inherited some assets in Switzerland (jointly
    with my siblings). We are just now, in February 2023, finalizing
    the inheritance inventory and the sealing of the inheritance.

    My question is, with regards to reporting the inheritance to the
    IRS in the US, do I report the receipt of the inheritance for the
    year 2022, because I automatically became a joint owner of the
    inheritance immediately on my father's death, even though the
    inheritance was not sealed and I could still reject it, and I
    could not dispose of the assets yet - or do I only report the
    receipt of the inheritance for the year 2023 once the inheritance
    has been sealed, when I can actually control the assets?
    ***unquote***

    Inheritances are not normally subject to income tax in the US. And
    there is no estate tax in the US when the decedent is neither a US
    citizen nor has assets in the US.

    What does matter is how large the gift is, and where it is kept. If
    the gift to a US citizen from abroad exceeds $100,000, then IRS Form
    3520 is required to report the transaction. This is not a tax form -
    no tax is due. It is a reporting requirement only.

    In addition to that, if a US citizen or permanent resident had any
    "financial assets" that, in the aggregate, exceeded $10,000 at any
    time during the year, they are also required to file a Report of
    Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (FBAR) on FinCEN Form 114.

    And yes, if your father died in 2022, you report for 2022 because
    that is when you became the legal owner (even though it wasn't
    actually under your control at that time).


    --
    Stu
    http://DownToEarthLawyer.com


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    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>

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  • From Alan@21:1/5 to Stuart O. Bronstein on Fri Feb 24 20:53:40 2023
    On Friday, February 24, 2023 at 9:26:43 AM UTC-8, Stuart O. Bronstein wrote:
    "tb" <nos...@example.invalid> wrote:

    The following question was posted on an online forum for Swiss
    citizens. What do the tax experts here have to say?
    Thanks.

    ***quote***
    I am Swiss, but a US resident. My father passed away end of
    October 2022 and I inherited some assets in Switzerland (jointly
    with my siblings). We are just now, in February 2023, finalizing
    the inheritance inventory and the sealing of the inheritance.

    My question is, with regards to reporting the inheritance to the
    IRS in the US, do I report the receipt of the inheritance for the
    year 2022, because I automatically became a joint owner of the
    inheritance immediately on my father's death, even though the
    inheritance was not sealed and I could still reject it, and I
    could not dispose of the assets yet - or do I only report the
    receipt of the inheritance for the year 2023 once the inheritance
    has been sealed, when I can actually control the assets?
    ***unquote***
    Inheritances are not normally subject to income tax in the US. And
    there is no estate tax in the US when the decedent is neither a US
    citizen nor has assets in the US.

    What does matter is how large the gift is, and where it is kept. If
    the gift to a US citizen from abroad exceeds $100,000, then IRS Form
    3520 is required to report the transaction. This is not a tax form -
    no tax is due. It is a reporting requirement only.

    In addition to that, if a US citizen or permanent resident had any
    "financial assets" that, in the aggregate, exceeded $10,000 at any
    time during the year, they are also required to file a Report of
    Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (FBAR) on FinCEN Form 114.

    And yes, if your father died in 2022, you report for 2022 because
    that is when you became the legal owner (even though it wasn't
    actually under your control at that time).


    --
    Stu
    http://DownToEarthLawyer.com

    I don't profess to be an expert on this subject, but I believe that Stu's last paragraph is incorrect. There is no inheritance until either someone receives a distribution or obtains control over the inheritance. In other words, until this US resident
    was able to withdraw, transfer, move, etc. the inheritance there is no filing or reporting requirement as there is no inheritance. It seems to me based on the statements in the post, that this is a 2023 inheritance because his control (the legal ability
    to access) did not happen in 2022. That said, don't forget about FATCA and Form 8938 requirements. If the amount exceeds the peak value and/or the year-end value in 2023, then the 8938 is required in addition to the FBAR. Healthy penalties for failing
    to file the FBAR and the 8938.

    --
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Stuart O. Bronstein@21:1/5 to Alan on Sat Feb 25 12:42:52 2023
    Alan <tempuser@vacationmail.com> wrote:
    Stuart O. Bronstein wrote:
    "tb" <nos...@example.invalid> wrote:

    The following question was posted on an online forum for Swiss
    citizens. What do the tax experts here have to say?
    Thanks.

    ***quote***
    I am Swiss, but a US resident. My father passed away end of
    October 2022 and I inherited some assets in Switzerland
    (jointly with my siblings). We are just now, in February 2023,
    finalizing the inheritance inventory and the sealing of the
    inheritance.

    My question is, with regards to reporting the inheritance to
    the IRS in the US, do I report the receipt of the inheritance
    for the year 2022, because I automatically became a joint owner
    of the inheritance immediately on my father's death, even
    though the inheritance was not sealed and I could still reject
    it, and I could not dispose of the assets yet - or do I only
    report the receipt of the inheritance for the year 2023 once
    the inheritance has been sealed, when I can actually control
    the assets? ***unquote***
    Inheritances are not normally subject to income tax in the US.
    And there is no estate tax in the US when the decedent is neither
    a US citizen nor has assets in the US.

    What does matter is how large the gift is, and where it is kept.
    If the gift to a US citizen from abroad exceeds $100,000, then
    IRS Form 3520 is required to report the transaction. This is not
    a tax form - no tax is due. It is a reporting requirement only.

    In addition to that, if a US citizen or permanent resident had
    any "financial assets" that, in the aggregate, exceeded $10,000
    at any time during the year, they are also required to file a
    Report of Foreign Bank and Financial Accounts (FBAR) on FinCEN
    Form 114.

    And yes, if your father died in 2022, you report for 2022 because
    that is when you became the legal owner (even though it wasn't
    actually under your control at that time).

    I don't profess to be an expert on this subject, but I believe
    that Stu's last paragraph is incorrect. There is no inheritance
    until either someone receives a distribution or obtains control
    over the inheritance. In other words, until this US resident was
    able to withdraw, transfer, move, etc. the inheritance there is no
    filing or reporting requirement as there is no inheritance. It
    seems to me based on the statements in the post, that this is a
    2023 inheritance because his control (the legal ability to access)
    did not happen in 2022. That said, don't forget about FATCA and
    Form 8938 requirements. If the amount exceeds the peak value
    and/or the year-end value in 2023, then the 8938 is required in
    addition to the FBAR. Healthy penalties for failing to file the
    FBAR and the 8938.

    I based my last statement on the fact that (at least in the US, and
    from what I can tell probably in Switzerland too) an inheritance is
    legally considered the property of the beneficiary immediately after
    the testator's death, subject to estate administration. And
    generally the IRS follows state laws when it comes to rules on
    ownership. For example when there is community property, the IRS
    requires half of community income to be reflected on each spouse's
    tax return.

    It is possible that, for Form 3520 and FBAR that the rule only
    requires reporting when the person has actual control over funds
    rather than just the legal right to them. But I haven't been able to
    find confirmation either way with a brief research on the subject.

    --
    Stu
    http://DownToEarthLawyer.com


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    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>
    << The foregoing was not intended or written to be used, >>
    << nor can it used, for the purpose of avoiding penalties >>
    << that may be imposed upon the taxpayer. >>
    << >>
    << The Charter and the Guidelines for submitting posts >>
    << to this newsgroup as well as our anti-spamming policy >>
    << are at www.asktax.org. >>
    << Copyright (2011) - All rights reserved. >>
    << ------------------------------------------------------- >>

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