Samsung has rejected seamless updates. Does Apple use this method? I know
it downloads updates in the background while I continue to use the phone
but I don’t know if that’s the same thing.


https://www.androidpolice.com/samsung-galaxy-s23-seamless-updates/

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On 2023-02-04 08:09, badgolferman wrote:

Samsung has rejected seamless updates. Does Apple use this method? I know
it downloads updates in the background while I continue to use the phone
but I don’t know if that’s the same thing.

Not sure that it matters how they compare. As you point out the
downloading part takes place as you do other things.

As to the word "seamless": to me that would be the OS being updated on
the fly w/o interruption.

Feasible? Certainly. Needless complexity? Probably.

As to Android seamless updates, they are not actually seamless. They
strive to minimize the downtime while preserving the current loaded
(former) OS while the future load (new) OS is being installed. If
something goes boink with the new load, the current OS can continue or
be re-booted into (some assumption here).

Then re-boot. So there is a seam of downtime - just reduced.

IAC these things do well to be re-booted from time to time and an update
does accomplish that - whether or not it's called seamless.

I don't use automatic iOS updates, so not sure how seamless it is - but
if all you need to do is acknowledge that it is coming and leave the
phone wired up for the night, that would seem seamless enough.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

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Am 04.02.23 um 14:09 schrieb badgolferman:

Samsung has rejected seamless updates. Does Apple use this method? I know
it downloads updates in the background while I continue to use the phone
but I don’t know if that’s the same thing.

https://www.androidpolice.com/samsung-galaxy-s23-seamless-updates/

I know only one end user OS that masters this task to the full extent:
Suse Linux Tumbleweed.

Google doesn't at all, Apple iOS/macOS doesn't, Windows doesn't. Over
the last two years became the worst of all of them.

And btw: In my opinion this is not a relevant issue with toys like
mobile devices or desktop systems. Quite different is the situation with servers.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

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On 2/4/2023 5:09 AM, badgolferman wrote:

Samsung has rejected seamless updates. Does Apple use this method? I know
it downloads updates in the background while I continue to use the phone
but I don’t know if that’s the same thing.

https://www.androidpolice.com/samsung-galaxy-s23-seamless-updates/

Yes, Apple does "seamless" updates and Android does not.

I never thought about this much because the total time for an update
doesn't differ much, in fact if you don't allow the iOS update to
download before the update it can actually take longer than an Android
update because of the way that iOS does updates.

I added this to the document <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JznrWfGJDA8CYVfjSnPTwfVy8-gAC0kPyaApuJTcUNE/>
as 51i on page 16.

I also went through the document this morning and made some other
corrections due to out-of-date information. Apple now has high-refresh
LTPO displays on some models (beginning with the iPhone 13 Pro/Pro Max)
so 23a is now struck-out. Wi-Fi calling now works on the iPhone with
Google-Fi (iOS 15.4 or newer), though 5G still requires a kludgy
workaround and requires the use of a physical SIM card.

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Am 04.02.23 um 16:13 schrieb Alan Browne:

As to Android seamless updates, they are not actually seamless. They
strive to minimize the downtime while preserving the current loaded
(former) OS while the future load (new) OS is being installed. If
something goes boink with the new load, the current OS can continue or
be re-booted into (some assumption here).

Installation and optimisation of Android even for small updates can take
very long compared to other systems. This is an issue since about two years.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

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In article <trm17l$21tlu$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

I never thought about this much because the total time for an update
doesn't differ much, in fact if you don't allow the iOS update to
download before the update it can actually take longer than an Android
update because of the way that iOS does updates.

your attempt to twist things fails.

the download happens in the background, which means no additional time
is needed.

I also went through the document this morning and made some other
corrections due to out-of-date information.

yet so much incorrect information remains.

Apple now has high-refresh
LTPO displays on some models

what apple has is a *variable* refresh rate to minimize battery
consumption when high refresh is not needed (i.e., looking at static
content, such as a photo), something which android does not have.

high refresh rate on android drains the battery faster and why many
people keep it off.

(beginning with the iPhone 13 Pro/Pro Max)
so 23a is now struck-out. Wi-Fi calling now works on the iPhone with Google-Fi (iOS 15.4 or newer), though 5G still requires a kludgy
workaround and requires the use of a physical SIM card.

that's a limitation of google-fi (or whatever carrier the user has),
not ios/android itself.

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On 2/4/2023 8:30 AM, sms wrote:

On 2/4/2023 5:09 AM, badgolferman wrote:

Samsung has rejected seamless updates. Does Apple use this method? I know
it downloads updates in the background while I continue to use the phone
but I don’t know if that’s the same thing.


https://www.androidpolice.com/samsung-galaxy-s23-seamless-updates/

Yes, Apple does "seamless" updates and Android does not.

I never thought about this much because the total time for an update
doesn't differ much, in fact if you don't allow the iOS update to
download before the update it can actually take longer than an Android
update because of the way that iOS does updates.

I suspect that the reluctance for Google to do seamless updates on
Android is the need to reserve storage space for the second partition.

This is not an issue on phones with a lot of storage, like every iPhone currently being sold, or on mid-range to flagship Android models, but
there are still very low end Android phones being produced with only
16GB of storage so reserving a 4GB partition for updates would be a
significant percentage of the total storage.

I believe that the smallest amount of storage on iPhones sold directly
from Apple is 64GB, and that this has been the case for a few years.
Plus the iOS image is significantly smaller than the Android image for
obvious reasons.

I suppose Google could limit seamless updates to phones with at least
64GB of storage but there' not a reason to spend a lot of effort on this feature since almost no one really cares about it. You do an update and
a few minutes later it's done. Splitting up the time between "download"
and "install" is not buying you much.

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Am 04.02.23 um 17:55 schrieb nospam:

In article <trm17l$21tlu$1@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

I never thought about this much because the total time for an update
doesn't differ much, in fact if you don't allow the iOS update to
download before the update it can actually take longer than an Android
update because of the way that iOS does updates.

your attempt to twist things fails.

the download happens in the background, which means no additional time
is needed.

The download time is here where I live not an issue at all. In addition
that has nothing to do with seamless.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

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Am 04.02.23 um 17:30 schrieb sms:

Yes, Apple does "seamless" updates and Android does not.

Wrong. "Seamless updates" mean no downtime.
Again you have no clue at all.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

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In article <trm2h3$21tlu$2@dont-email.me>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

Plus the iOS image is significantly smaller than the Android image for obvious reasons.

conveniently neglecting to mention what they are.

is the smaller and more efficient code size of ios listed in your
'document'? rhetorical question.

I suppose Google could limit seamless updates to phones with at least
64GB of storage but there' not a reason to spend a lot of effort on this feature since almost no one really cares about it.

there you go again, when any time android can't do something, 'nobody
really cares about it' despite evidence to the contrary, yet you're
happy to mention things that favour android which really do not matter
at all.

You do an update and
a few minutes later it's done. Splitting up the time between "download"
and "install" is not buying you much.

actually, it does, which is one reason why it's split.

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On 2023-02-04 11:30, sms wrote:

On 2/4/2023 5:09 AM, badgolferman wrote:

Samsung has rejected seamless updates. Does Apple use this method? I know
it downloads updates in the background while I continue to use the phone
but I don’t know if that’s the same thing.


https://www.androidpolice.com/samsung-galaxy-s23-seamless-updates/

Yes, Apple does "seamless" updates and Android does not.

You still have to re-start the iOS device.

Nothing seamless about that.


--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

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On 2023-02-04 11:24, Joerg Lorenz wrote:

Am 04.02.23 um 14:09 schrieb badgolferman:

Samsung has rejected seamless updates. Does Apple use this method? I know
it downloads updates in the background while I continue to use the phone
but I don’t know if that’s the same thing.


https://www.androidpolice.com/samsung-galaxy-s23-seamless-updates/

I know only one end user OS that masters this task to the full extent:
Suse Linux Tumbleweed.

Google doesn't at all, Apple iOS/macOS doesn't, Windows doesn't. Over
the last two years became the worst of all of them.

And btw: In my opinion this is not a relevant issue with toys like
mobile devices or desktop systems. Quite different is the situation with servers.

While I wouldn't categorize mobile devices and desktop systems as
"toys", you are correct that there are systems that do need to upgrade
more seamlessly.

That said, in a server farm, you can upgrade and re-boot servers with no
issue - just don't do them all at once. If the change is so big, that
all of the servers have to be on the same s/w at the same time, then
you'll have to stop service to assure that in any case.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

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On 2023-02-04 12:36, nospam wrote:

In article <2GwDL.68882$Sgyc.19141@fx40.iad>, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

Yes, Apple does "seamless" updates and Android does not.

You still have to re-start the iOS device.

Nothing seamless about that.

it is when it automatically happens overnight while the user is
sleeping.

the user wakes up to a new os, which has been the case for *years* and
not just ios either.

Yes, I pointed that out to the OP earlier.

That is still not "seamless" as the word implies.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

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In article <dLwDL.592977$iS99.158024@fx16.iad>, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

Nothing seamless about that.

it is when it automatically happens overnight while the user is
sleeping.

the user wakes up to a new os, which has been the case for *years* and
not just ios either.

Yes, I pointed that out to the OP earlier.

That is still not "seamless" as the word implies.

it is to the user.

phones aren't servers with remote users at all hours of the day/night.

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In article <2GwDL.68882$Sgyc.19141@fx40.iad>, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

Yes, Apple does "seamless" updates and Android does not.

You still have to re-start the iOS device.

Nothing seamless about that.

it is when it automatically happens overnight while the user is
sleeping.

the user wakes up to a new os, which has been the case for *years* and
not just ios either.

the user can optionally disable that, if they prefer manual control.

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On 2023-02-04 12:52, nospam wrote:

In article <dLwDL.592977$iS99.158024@fx16.iad>, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

Nothing seamless about that.

it is when it automatically happens overnight while the user is
sleeping.

the user wakes up to a new os, which has been the case for *years* and
not just ios either.

Yes, I pointed that out to the OP earlier.

That is still not "seamless" as the word implies.

it is to the user.

Which I made clear to the OP.

phones aren't servers with remote users at all hours of the day/night.

Never said they were. The word seamless stands wrong.

Why Apple don't use that word.

--
“Donald Trump and his allies and supporters are a clear and present
danger to American democracy.”
- J Michael Luttig - 2022-06-16
- Former US appellate court judge (R) testifying to the January 6
committee

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Am 04.02.23 um 18:36 schrieb nospam:

In article <2GwDL.68882$Sgyc.19141@fx40.iad>, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

Yes, Apple does "seamless" updates and Android does not.

You still have to re-start the iOS device.

Nothing seamless about that.

it is when it automatically happens overnight while the user is
sleeping.

Wrong. Seamless is a concept that has absolutely nothing to do with the sleeptimes of the device-owner.


--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

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Am 04.02.23 um 18:52 schrieb nospam:

In article <dLwDL.592977$iS99.158024@fx16.iad>, Alan Browne <bitbucket@blackhole.com> wrote:

Nothing seamless about that.

it is when it automatically happens overnight while the user is
sleeping.

the user wakes up to a new os, which has been the case for *years* and
not just ios either.

Yes, I pointed that out to the OP earlier.

That is still not "seamless" as the word implies.

it is to the user.

*ROTFLSTC*

phones aren't servers with remote users at all hours of the day/night.

You do not understand the concept of seamless.

--
Gutta cavat lapidem (Ovid)

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