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  • [Stretch] Status for architecture qualification

    From John Paul Adrian Glaubitz@21:1/5 to Philipp Kern on Tue Jun 14 14:10:02 2016
    On 06/14/2016 09:06 AM, Philipp Kern wrote:
    Yeah, but that's unfortunately one of the universal truths of this port.
    I mean in theory sometimes they turn up on eBay and people try to make
    them work[1].

    Hilarious talk, thanks a lot for the link :).

    It also seems true for other ports where we commonly relied on sponsors
    to hand us replacements. But maybe it's only ppc64el these days, maybe
    there are useful builds available for the others (including arm64 and
    mips) on the market now.

    The hardware sponsoring is the main thing that keeps us from making sparc64
    an official port, I would say.

    The state of the port itself is great: We recently even got LibreOffice running on sparc64 (patches not yet merged) and the port is quite popular, according
    to popcon, sparc64 has already more users than arm64 and some of the mips
    ports :). If we were to add sparc64 to Debian, we could rebuild the archive within a few weeks.

    We have one user who has two Sun T2 servers which are new-in-box (NIB),
    would those be ok to set up as machines for DSA?

    Adrian

    --
    .''`. John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
    : :' : Debian Developer - glaubitz@debian.org
    `. `' Freie Universitaet Berlin - glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de
    `- GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546 0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913

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  • From Niels Thykier@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jun 5 17:50:01 2016
    Copy: debian-admin@lists.debian.org (DSA)
    Copy: team@security.debian.org (Debian Security Team)
    Copy: debian-release@lists.debian.org (debian-release)
    Copy: debian-ports@lists.debian.org

    This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --WwkFKkkllbAbcVMEjUaXrDKG8NeXt00eG
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    Steven Chamberlain:
    Hi,


    Hi,

    John Paul Adrian Glaubitz wrote:
    I have invested lots of time and effort to get sparc64 into a usable state in Debian.
    We are close to 11.000 installed packages. Missing packages include Firefox, >> Thunderbird/Icedove, golang and LibreOffice to name the most important ones.

    Is there some way to define 'core'[0] packages as blockers for testing migration, and arch release qualification; but other packages not?


    There is no current definition and I doubt it will be trivial to agree
    on a definition. Also, the moment you want to keep the set
    self-contained (by including build-depends) it very easily explodes
    unless you patch packages to disable "optional" features.

    Many of these ports would be useful if just a base system was released,
    and preferably having stable/security updates for that part (otherwise
    it is difficult for users to try it, developers to work on it, or DSA to support buildds for it; all of which are limitations on ports' further growth).


    Assuming we use your definition as basis, you probably also want the
    packages necessary to support a DSA maintained buildd. Otherwise it
    seems it fail one of your own proposed requirements.

    Trying to have *every* package build and stay built on every port, and supported for the lifetime of stable, is a lot of work without much
    purpose sometimes. And it's unreasonable for any one port to block
    testing migration of a package on all arches, unless it is something
    really essential.

    This might be done either:
    * in the official archive, with relaxed rules for testing migration
    and more frequently de-crufting of out-of-date packages;

    I suspect this will be a lot of work and an uphill battle as the our
    current tooling is not really written for this case. At the very least,
    I fear a lot of extra special cases in Britney that I cannot easily deal
    with.

    * creating a mini testing/stable suite based on debian-ports.org?
    where maybe only the core packages are candidates to migrate.


    At least short term, this probably a lot more tractable. I am happy to
    provide help with setting up a Britney instance for ports. Though we
    would need some way to provide a architecture specific version of the
    "core" packages.

    [0]: I'd define core packages as everything needed to install, boot, and
    then build packages on that arch. The rebootstrap project gives us some
    idea of what those are; but add to that the kernel and any bootloaders. Being able to rebootstrap, should be part of the arch release
    qualification anyway IMHO.

    Regards,


    Hmm, the rebootstrap idea is interesting as a new requirement. I will
    look into it.

    Thanks,
    ~Niels




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  • From Lennart Sorensen@21:1/5 to Geert Uytterhoeven on Tue Jun 21 00:20:01 2016
    On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 10:35:20PM +0200, Geert Uytterhoeven wrote:
    Yeah, apparently it's cheaper to bootstrap a complete new little endian platform than to fix portability issues in existing software...

    I believe a big reason is that Nvidia cards expect little endian data,
    and the overhead of converting between the host and the nvidia cards is
    big enough to matter.

    power8+ and power9 will have nvlink connections on the CPU for a reason
    after all.

    --
    Len Sorensen

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  • From Brock Wittrock@21:1/5 to riccardo.mottola@libero.it on Fri Jun 17 20:00:01 2016
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    I run all sorts of PowerPC machines with various versions of Debian and I
    don't see that coming to end anytime soon. These are excellent and
    reliable machines. Biggest issues/hurdles are just graphics at the moment
    for both ATI/AMD and Nvidia cards, but even if that is never resolved/fixed
    or performance dwindles to nothing, I will continue to use these machines
    in text/console only mode if I have to. Please do not drop this
    architecture!


    Brock

    On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 3:24 AM, Riccardo Mottola <
    riccardo.mottola@libero.it> wrote:

    Hi,

    Dan DeVoto wrote:

    In addition to the debian powerpc mailing list, powerpc users are active
    on the Ubuntu forums. I'm running Debian Sid on a Powerbook and everything >> works except 3D acceleration. I don't see a need to drop it.


    I hope that my iBook G3 will serve me for years to come! Low power consumption fanless with a SSD disk make superquiet and quite nice!

    Riccardo



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    <div dir="ltr"><div><div>I run all sorts of PowerPC machines with various versions of Debian and I don&#39;t see that coming to end anytime soon.  These are excellent and reliable machines.  Biggest issues/hurdles are just graphics at the moment for
    both ATI/AMD and Nvidia cards, but even if that is never resolved/fixed or performance dwindles to nothing, I will continue to use these machines in text/console only mode if I have to.  Please do not drop this architecture!<br><br></div><br></div><div>
    Brock<br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Jun 17, 2016 at 3:24 AM, Riccardo Mottola <span dir="ltr">&lt;<a href="mailto:riccardo.mottola@libero.it" target="_blank">riccardo.mottola@libero.it</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<
    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi,<span class=""><br>

    Dan DeVoto wrote:<br>
    <blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
    In addition to the debian powerpc mailing list, powerpc users are active on the Ubuntu forums.  I&#39;m running Debian Sid on a Powerbook and everything works except 3D acceleration.  I don&#39;t see a need to drop it.<br>
    </blockquote>
    <br></span>
    I hope that my iBook G3 will serve me for years to come! Low power consumption fanless with a SSD disk make superquiet and quite nice!<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br>

    Riccardo<br>

    </font></span></blockquote></div><br></div>

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