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  • Re: Introducing Declarative Debian

    From Judit Foglszinger@21:1/5 to All on Sat Apr 1 22:10:01 2023
    debian-is-ubuntu
    dpkg-is-snap
    jellyfish-is-the-future

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  • From Christoph Biedl@21:1/5 to All on Sat Apr 1 22:10:01 2023
    Heya,

    perhaps it this happens more often that one might think: Huge changes
    come in silence and small steps, and it takes a while to realize
    something big is happening. And it seems we're just witnessing another
    story of that kind.

    It's about the naming of Debian packages, more precisely: about making a statement in that very name. Perhaps not the first of that kind, but
    certainly one that got broader attention was "python-is-python3". Since
    then, there have been more, for example “borgbackup-is-borgbackup2” and “usr-is-merged”. It should however be noted there a several packages
    name "node-is-*" - that's just a coincidence, caused by the function
    these packages provide.

    Still it's about time to make this a formal concept, something I call "Declarative Debian". Instead of dealing with all the difficulties about packaging, licenses, problematic upstreams, endless discussions about
    the right way to do things - let's just declare what we want to achieve,
    and we're done.

    Examples that come to mind include names like

    * everything-is-fine
    * systemd-is-the-salvation
    * freedom-is-slavery
    * sid-is-stable

    But perhaps these goals are a bit too big for the moment. So at first
    I'd like to gather more input on this and would appreciate suggestions
    where to head for next. In the quest for final truth.

    Christoph


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  • From Jeremy Stanley@21:1/5 to Christoph Biedl on Sun Apr 2 01:50:01 2023
    On 2023-04-01 21:53:17 +0200 (+0200), Christoph Biedl wrote:
    [...]
    Examples that come to mind include names like

    * everything-is-fine
    * systemd-is-the-salvation
    * freedom-is-slavery
    * sid-is-stable

    But perhaps these goals are a bit too big for the moment. So at first
    I'd like to gather more input on this and would appreciate suggestions
    where to head for next. In the quest for final truth.

    I'll be perfectly satisfied with bookworm-is-released. ;)
    --
    Jeremy Stanley

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  • From Didier 'OdyX' Raboud@21:1/5 to All on Sun Apr 2 15:54:55 2023
    Copy: micha@debian.org (Micha Lenk)

    Le dimanche, 2 avril 2023, 15.41:12 h CEST Micha Lenk a crit :
    I'm not quite sure I got the concept. Is this just (also) another way of expressing things we currently express with virtual packages?

    For example:
    * httpserver-is-apache
    * imapserver-is-dovecot

    You need to think larger!

    * christoph-got-you-to-think-about-this-seriously
    * april-s-fool-is-less-and-less-fun-in-an-era-of-fakenews
    * I-genuinely-giggled-though

    --
    OdyX
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  • From Micha Lenk@21:1/5 to All on Sun Apr 2 15:50:01 2023
    Hi Christoph,

    Am 1. April 2023 21:53:17 MESZ schrieb Christoph Biedl <debian.axhn@manchmal.in-ulm.de>:
    [...]
    Examples that come to mind include names like

    * everything-is-fine
    * systemd-is-the-salvation
    * freedom-is-slavery
    * sid-is-stable

    But perhaps these goals are a bit too big for the moment. So at first
    I'd like to gather more input on this and would appreciate suggestions
    where to head for next. In the quest for final truth.

    I'm not quite sure I got the concept. Is this just (also) another way of expressing things we currently express with virtual packages?

    For example:
    * httpserver-is-apache
    * imapserver-is-dovecot

    What benefits could be in the bag of declarative Debian?

    You made me curious. :)

    Kind regards,
    Micha

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  • From Gunnar Wolf@21:1/5 to All on Thu Apr 6 03:30:01 2023
    Didier 'OdyX' Raboud dijo [Sun, Apr 02, 2023 at 03:54:55PM +0200]:
    For example:
    * httpserver-is-apache
    * imapserver-is-dovecot

    You need to think larger!

    * christoph-got-you-to-think-about-this-seriously
    * april-s-fool-is-less-and-less-fun-in-an-era-of-fakenews
    * I-genuinely-giggled-though

    However, I insist on consistent naming. At least we should require all declarative-named packages to follow a proper foo-is-bar name until
    the secret project to include ChatGPT as a dependency for apt is
    finally ready to be announced.

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  • From Peter Pentchev@21:1/5 to Gunnar Wolf on Thu Apr 6 07:30:01 2023
    On Wed, Apr 05, 2023 at 07:22:32PM -0600, Gunnar Wolf wrote:
    Didier 'OdyX' Raboud dijo [Sun, Apr 02, 2023 at 03:54:55PM +0200]:
    For example:
    * httpserver-is-apache
    * imapserver-is-dovecot

    You need to think larger!

    * christoph-got-you-to-think-about-this-seriously
    * april-s-fool-is-less-and-less-fun-in-an-era-of-fakenews
    * I-genuinely-giggled-though

    However, I insist on consistent naming. At least we should require all declarative-named packages to follow a proper foo-is-bar name until
    the secret project to include ChatGPT as a dependency for apt is
    finally ready to be announced.

    How are we doing on the main prerequisite for that? I mean, yeah,
    an effort to get all DDs and DMs to sign an "I, for one, welcome our
    new robotic overlords" pledge is hard enough, but doing it as
    a good phishing campaign with a large chance of success makes
    it a lot harder.

    G'luck,
    Peter

    --
    Peter Pentchev roam@ringlet.net roam@debian.org pp@storpool.com
    PGP key: http://people.FreeBSD.org/~roam/roam.key.asc
    Key fingerprint 2EE7 A7A5 17FC 124C F115 C354 651E EFB0 2527 DF13

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  • From Sanjay A. Nair@21:1/5 to All on Thu Apr 6 11:00:01 2023
    We could try baiting them with anime chicks or something.


    --
    S. A. Nair
    Random guy on internet, scripter, student.


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