hi,

so Stephan Lachnit submitted an MR for developers-reference on Monday to document how to grant DM upload permissions, which I gladly merged, even
though I was aware of "#653399: developers-reference: Please include a paragraph about Debian Maintainers (DM)" still being unresolved.

Which lead me to (quoting from #-devel that day)

< h01ger> stephanlachnit: now i'm wondering how much of
https://wiki.debian.org/DebianMaintainer i should copy into
developers-reference... i've seen you also documented the dcut
commands there, which makes sense as it is now, though i'm not
convinced it's good to have all the docs in two places
< h01ger> so i'm also pondering about mostly adding a pointer to that wiki
page to devref
< h01ger> (the wiki and devref are both GPL2 licenced, so that part is easy :) < h01ger> feedback from anyone is welcome of course, not just stephan :)

So what do you all think?

I'm leaning towards explaining the basics in devref (mostly by copying bits from the wiki page) and adding a pointer to the wiki page, but if there's consensus that the wiki page is supposed to be made obsolete by *moving*
the contents to src:devref and leaving a pointer on the wiki page, I could
also do that.


--
cheers,
Holger

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ holger@(debian|reproducible-builds|layer-acht).org
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ OpenPGP: B8BF54137B09D35CF026FE9D 091AB856069AAA1C
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The vision of self driving cars is nothing compared to the vision of no cars at all.

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On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 12:49 PM Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> wrote:

So what do you all think?

I'm leaning towards explaining the basics in devref (mostly by copying bits from the wiki page) and adding a pointer to the wiki page, but if there's consensus that the wiki page is supposed to be made obsolete by *moving*
the contents to src:devref and leaving a pointer on the wiki page, I could also do that.

As already mentioned on IRC, I think in this case I would move the
information for the DDs to the devref and reference it on the wiki
with "if you are a DD, see also section X in devref". Currently when I
search something related to general DD tasks I first look in the
devref and not in the wiki. In particular most of the DebianMaintainer
wiki page is for those wanting to become a DM, I only found the
granting permissions section after looking a second time.

In general I would put information specific for people who are already
DDs in the devref written with the assumption that everyone who reads
it is a DD. The wiki on the other hand is more "public facing", so I
would put here more introductory content (like "what can I do as a DM"
and "how I can become a DM").

Regards,
Stephan

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"Holger" == Holger Levsen <holger@layer-acht.org> writes:

Holger> So what do you all think?

Holger> I'm leaning towards explaining the basics in devref (mostly
Holger> by copying bits from the wiki page) and adding a pointer to
Holger> the wiki page, but if there's consensus that the wiki page
Holger> is supposed to be made obsolete by *moving* the contents to
Holger> src:devref and leaving a pointer on the wiki page, I could
Holger> also do that.

developers-reference is available offline, is in my experience better organized, and is where I look for stuff like that.
I am able to place more trust in devref than wiki.debian.org.
Some parts of wiki.debian.org are great; some parts are horribly out of
date.

I'd say that as best we are able, things normal Debian developers need
to do should be in devref. So, what are DMs, how to grant permissions,
how to revoke are things I'd hope would be in devref.

Beyond that, I think wiki.debian.org could be fine.

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Holger Levsen dijo [Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 11:49:05AM +0000]:

hi,

so Stephan Lachnit submitted an MR for developers-reference on Monday to document how to grant DM upload permissions, which I gladly merged, even though I was aware of "#653399: developers-reference: Please include a paragraph about Debian Maintainers (DM)" still being unresolved.
(...)
I'm leaning towards explaining the basics in devref (mostly by copying bits from the wiki page) and adding a pointer to the wiki page, but if there's consensus that the wiki page is supposed to be made obsolete by *moving*
the contents to src:devref and leaving a pointer on the wiki page, I could also do that.

I agree with Stephan's and Sam's reasoning, I think the detailed
information should be in the devref.

A wiki is by definition open to edition by any (authorized?) user; the
devref has named editors (as you are very well aware ;-) ) and can be
seen as verified and curated information. I think the information
should be concisely explained in the devref, leaving the Wiki for more full/detailed information on specific points, examples, or documenting
changes as they are discussed or implemented, while waiting for them
to arrive to the devref's next edition.

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--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Fri, Feb 11, 2022 at 12:25:36AM -0600, Gunnar Wolf wrote:

I agree with Stephan's and Sam's reasoning, I think the detailed
information should be in the devref.

A wiki is by definition open to edition by any (authorized?) user; the
devref has named editors (as you are very well aware ;-) ) and can be
seen as verified and curated information. I think the information
should be concisely explained in the devref, leaving the Wiki for more full/detailed information on specific points, examples, or documenting changes as they are discussed or implemented,

Ok, thanks for your feedback, Gunnar, Sam, Stephan & Jochen! I'll take
this route soon.

while waiting for them
to arrive to the devref's next edition.

fwiw, I've switched the release modell of src:developers-reference to
'release early, release often', which means I basically aim to release
directly after each substancial change. By looking at the version number
in bullseye, which is 11.0.21, you can easily see this ment I did
21 uploads in the two years of developing bullseye.

(This poses challenges to translations to say the least, which I plan to address eventually.)

More help (best in form of patches or commits) absolutly very welcome!
Any member of the Debian group on salsa can and should commit freely
& with responsibility :)


--
cheers,
Holger

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⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ holger@(debian|reproducible-builds|layer-acht).org
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ OpenPGP: B8BF54137B09D35CF026FE9D 091AB856069AAA1C
⠈⠳⣄

People call vaccine mandates "Orwellian" even though Orwell died at 46 of tuberculosis, which is now preventable with a vaccine.

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