XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, alt.privacy

sms wrote:

For this purpose the 13 is a total overkill. Why didn't you buy a SE?
That would have saved you a couple of Franklins.

That's right. Just shit all over his decision and new shiny toy.

Many people don't realize how much better the Mini 13 is than the SE2 or
SE3, and some of the advantages apply even if used only for phone calls.

The advantages of the 13 Mini are significant:
1. AMOLED versus LCD
2. mmWave 5G
3. Significantly larger screen
4. Smaller physical size (at least width and height, though slightly
thicker)
5. Higher capacity battery and longer battery life
6. Magsafe

The 13 Mini screen is only slightly smaller than the 6s Plus (5.42"
diagonal versus 5.5" diagonal) so not sure why the OP found the keyboard
to be noticeably smaller.

I wanted my wife to choose the 12 Mini at work but she chose the SE2, as
did most of her colleagues, for one reason, she works in the health care environment and it was the height of Covid and FaceID was a deal
breaker. That was before there was a modification to FaceID to make it
work with masks.

You say security is important when buying an iPhone, do you not?

The problem with deciding to choose between an older model Apple device and
a newer model Apple device is Apple designs in those unpatchable flaws.

Hence, I would suggest anyone contemplating an older Apple design, read the news first and choose only an iPhone that does NOT have unpatchable flaws.

Apple has never designed a best in class SOC (Apple can't), and if you need
a single explanation for how inept Apple's CPU/GPU/SE design teams are,
then just read this one article
<https://iphoneislam.com/en/2022/12/because-of-a-mistake-apple-canceled-the-super-graphics-processor-on-the-iphone-14-pro/112338>

With the concept that Apple designs flaws into every CPU/SE chip being a critical factor in determining whether to buy an older model or not...
let's look at the choices that Steve kindly supplied for the OP.

I don't see Joerg's posts but people should know he has never added even an iota of on-topic technical value to _any_ thread in his life. He can't.

Hence, I appreciate badgolferman tried to put Joerg in his place, which,
let's face it, is really in the killfile as Joerg _can't_ add any value.

As for the shiny new toy, I commend the OP for letting folks know what he
has, so they can help him and so that he can ask questions if he needs it.

Regarding Steve's comment that the Mini 13 is better than the SE2 or SE3,
if you care about security, then you might want to get the ones that do NOT have permanently flawed unpatchable security holes in them (probably they
all have these unpatchable flaws like in the M1 and M2 (based on the M1)
<https://techcrunch.com/2022/06/10/apple-m1-unpatchable-flaw/>

So anyone who cares about security would almost certainly agree CPUs with
known unpatchable flaws are instantly worthless (like a popped balloon).

Hence, your choice is _limited_ to Bionic CPUs that do NOT have known unpatchable security holes built into them - which limits your choice.
<https://9to5mac.com/2020/08/01/new-unpatchable-exploit-allegedly-found-on-apples-secure-enclave-chip-heres-what-it-could-mean/>

Steve, do you know if any of the choices you compared above do NOT contain known published unpatchable security holes in their Bionic CPU or SE?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, alt.privacy

On 2023-01-22 08:38, Andy Burnelli wrote:

sms wrote:

For this purpose the 13 is a total overkill. Why didn't you buy a SE?
That would have saved you a couple of Franklins.

That's right.  Just shit all over his decision and new shiny toy.

Many people don't realize how much better the Mini 13 is than the SE2
or SE3, and some of the advantages apply even if used only for phone
calls.

The advantages of the 13 Mini are significant:
1. AMOLED versus LCD
2. mmWave 5G
3. Significantly larger screen
4. Smaller physical size (at least width and height, though slightly
thicker)
5. Higher capacity battery and longer battery life
6. Magsafe

The 13 Mini screen is only slightly smaller than the 6s Plus (5.42"
diagonal versus 5.5" diagonal) so not sure why the OP found the
keyboard to be noticeably smaller.

I wanted my wife to choose the 12 Mini at work but she chose the SE2,
as did most of her colleagues, for one reason, she works in the health
care environment and it was the height of Covid and FaceID was a deal
breaker. That was before there was a modification to FaceID to make it
work with masks.

You say security is important when buying an iPhone, do you not?

The problem with deciding to choose between an older model Apple device and
a newer model Apple device is Apple designs in those unpatchable flaws.

You claim Apple doesn't design its silicon, so please explain.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, alt.privacy

On 1/22/2023 9:55 AM, Alan wrote:

On 2023-01-22 08:38, Andy Burnelli wrote:

sms wrote:

For this purpose the 13 is a total overkill. Why didn't you buy a SE? >>>>> That would have saved you a couple of Franklins.

That's right.  Just shit all over his decision and new shiny toy.

Many people don't realize how much better the Mini 13 is than the SE2
or SE3, and some of the advantages apply even if used only for phone
calls.

The advantages of the 13 Mini are significant:
1. AMOLED versus LCD
2. mmWave 5G
3. Significantly larger screen
4. Smaller physical size (at least width and height, though slightly
thicker)
5. Higher capacity battery and longer battery life
6. Magsafe

The 13 Mini screen is only slightly smaller than the 6s Plus (5.42"
diagonal versus 5.5" diagonal) so not sure why the OP found the
keyboard to be noticeably smaller.

I wanted my wife to choose the 12 Mini at work but she chose the SE2,
as did most of her colleagues, for one reason, she works in the
health care environment and it was the height of Covid and FaceID was
a deal breaker. That was before there was a modification to FaceID to
make it work with masks.

You say security is important when buying an iPhone, do you not?

The problem with deciding to choose between an older model Apple
device and
a newer model Apple device is Apple designs in those unpatchable flaws.

You claim Apple doesn't design its silicon, so please explain.

At the time my wife's employer moved from dumb phones to smart phones,
Android was a security nightmare (though now that's flipped, according
to security experts).

The company is not going to pay to rewrite their custom applications for Android.

They are not going figure out how to remote manage Android devices.
Apple's MDM (Mobile Device Management) is excellent, and it's why so
many corporations are iPhone-only.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, alt.privacy

In article <tqjvc1$af1$1@gioia.aioe.org>, sms
<scharf.steven@geemail.com> wrote:

At the time my wife's employer moved from dumb phones to smart phones, Android was a security nightmare (though now that's flipped, according
to security experts).

logical fallacy, and it hasn't..

The company is not going to pay to rewrite their custom applications for Android.

no surprise there, since ios development is easier.

They are not going figure out how to remote manage Android devices.
Apple's MDM (Mobile Device Management) is excellent, and it's why so
many corporations are iPhone-only.

it's one of many reasons, security being the main one.

too bad you don't understand how apple's mdm works, or you'd fix many
of the bogus claims in your 'document'.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, alt.privacy

nospam wrote:

do try to keep your story straight.

FACT:

Apple iPhones looked good when they were sold, but then the security holes
that are completely unpatchable were published in almost every Bionic CPU.

And in the Secure Enclave.

A salient strategic point is that to buy an older iPhone is to purchase a
phone that has known unpatchable holes (it's like buying a popped balloon).

The only question is which iPhones are _not_ like a popped balloon is?

ASSESSMENT:

Logically and sensibly, the security question remains perfectly valid:
Steve, *do you know if any of the choices you compared do NOT contain*
*known published unpatchable security holes* in their Bionic CPU or SE?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, alt.privacy

On 2023-01-22 11:37, Andy Burnelli wrote:

Alan Browne wrote:

You claim Apple doesn't design its silicon, so please explain.

Not relevant as the referenced flaw is common to all ARM's of that
base type.

I don't see Alan Baker's posts but he always makes the same idiotic claim. Given Alan Baker's extremely low IQ, it's not worth explaining it to him.

Alan Baker's child-like argument is essentially since Apple doesn't
fabricate CPUs or the secure enclave, then unpatchable flaws can't exist.

Nope.

That's not my argument at all.

So you're either ignorant or a liar.

My argument is that you want to claim two things simultaneously that are
in complete contradiction with each other:

1. That Apple doesn't design its silicon.

2. That Apple's designs of its silicon are flawed.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, alt.privacy

nospam wrote:

They are not going figure out how to remote manage Android devices.
Apple's MDM (Mobile Device Management) is excellent, and it's why so
many corporations are iPhone-only.

it's one of many reasons, security being the main one.

Given that nobody has more zero-day holes than Apple iPhones have, how can
you make that assessment, nospam, that "security" is better than Android?

Given almost all the Apple Bionic CPUs (and the secure enclave) have traditionally been found to contain unpatchable security holes, nospam,
how can you make the claim that iPhones are any more secure than Android?

Given even the Cellebrite Pegasus tool has _only_ infected the kernel in iPhones, and, in fact, many times it has infected the kernel, and yet,
Pegasus can NOT infect the Android kernel (as far as has been published),
how can you make that assessment, nospam, on security differences?

Given iOS 15 is not fully patched, as per Apple's own recently forced admission, such that only iOS 16 will get all known security patches,
how can you make any assessment at all about Apple iPhone security when you don't know even that simple fact, which you've proven to be ignorant of?

*Do you know _nothing_ about iPhones that you know none of this nospam?*

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, alt.privacy

Alan Browne wrote:

You claim Apple doesn't design its silicon, so please explain.

Not relevant as the referenced flaw is common to all ARM's of that base
type.

I don't see Alan Baker's posts but he always makes the same idiotic claim. Given Alan Baker's extremely low IQ, it's not worth explaining it to him.

Alan Baker's child-like argument is essentially since Apple doesn't
fabricate CPUs or the secure enclave, then unpatchable flaws can't exist.

As for Alan Browne's attempt to excuse Apple's unpatchable hardware flaws,
his desperate excuse that everyone designs as badly as Apple, and, in fact, since iOS is involved, Apple is even worse than everyone else, also doesn't fly.

The classic iKook argument that Apple is worse than everyone else is their child-like attempt to excuse every one of Apple's flaws as being common.

The fact Alan Browne just tried to tell us that Apple is worse than
everyone else STILL does not change the strategic point which is that to
buy an older iPhone is to buy a worthless iPhone in terms of security.

That's true mainly for two reasons:
a. Apple iPHones almost always have non-patchable holes in the CPU/SE
b. Apple promises security fixes _only_ for the latest release (16 today)

In summary, the strategic point both Alan's fail to grasp is that to buy an older iPhone is to purchase a phone that has known unpatchable holes.

Which is like buying a popped balloon.
It looked great when it was advertised - but it popped in the real world.

Logically and sensibly, the security question remains perfectly valid:
Steve, *do you know if any of the choices you compared do NOT contain*
*known published unpatchable security holes* in their Bionic CPU or SE?

Because, if they do, they're as worthless to anyone as a popped balloon.
--
Posted out of the goodness of my heart to disseminate useful information
which, in this case, is to knock some sense into the iKooks' belief system.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, alt.privacy

On 2023-01-22 11:47, Andy Burnelli wrote:

nospam wrote:

do try to keep your story straight.

FACT:

Apple iPhones looked good when they were sold, but then the security
holes that are completely unpatchable were published in almost every
Bionic CPU.

Which you also claim that Apple didn't design.

And in the Secure Enclave.

A salient strategic point is that to buy an older iPhone is to purchase
a phone that has known unpatchable holes (it's like buying a popped
balloon).

The only question is which iPhones are _not_ like a popped balloon is?

Which CPU can you point to that doesn't have any holes, Arlen?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, alt.privacy

On 2023-01-22 11:42, Andy Burnelli wrote:

nospam wrote:

They are not going figure out how to remote manage Android devices.
Apple's MDM (Mobile Device Management) is excellent, and it's why so
many corporations are iPhone-only.

it's one of many reasons, security being the main one.

Given that nobody has more zero-day holes than Apple iPhones have, how can you make that assessment, nospam, that "security" is better than Android?

Given that you've never proven that assertion...

Given almost all the Apple Bionic CPUs (and the secure enclave) have traditionally been found to contain unpatchable security holes, nospam,
how can you make the claim that iPhones are any more secure than Android?

You're language is so...

...carefully couched.

Given even the Cellebrite Pegasus tool has _only_ infected the kernel in iPhones, and, in fact, many times it has infected the kernel, and yet, Pegasus can NOT infect the Android kernel (as far as has been
published), how can you make that assessment, nospam, on security differences?

You should explain that to Amnesty International:

'This report documents the forensic traces left on iOS and Android
devices following targeting with the Pegasus spyware.'

<https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/research/2021/07/forensic-methodology-report-how-to-catch-nso-groups-pegasus/>

'In Amnesty International’s experience there are significantly more
forensic traces accessible to investigators on Apple iOS devices than on
stock Android devices'

Note the use of the word "more" and all its implications.

You should also tell these folks:

'Understanding the Pegasus affair

Pegasus is a malware capable of compromising most mobile devices with
Android and iOS operating systems.'

<https://irisbh.com.br/en/government-hacking-and-the-digital-insecurity-industry/>

<https://www.google.com/search?q=pegasus+spyware+removal+android>>

Given iOS 15 is not fully patched, as per Apple's own recently forced admission, such that only iOS 16 will get all known security patches,
how can you make any assessment at all about Apple iPhone security when you don't know even that simple fact, which you've proven to be ignorant of?

Got a cite for iOS 15 not being fully patched?

No, huh?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

XPost: misc.phone.mobile.iphone, alt.privacy

On 2023-01-22 11:42, Andy Burnelli wrote:

nospam wrote:

They are not going figure out how to remote manage Android devices.
Apple's MDM (Mobile Device Management) is excellent, and it's why so
many corporations are iPhone-only.

it's one of many reasons, security being the main one.

Given that nobody has more zero-day holes than Apple iPhones have, how can you make that assessment, nospam, that "security" is better than Android?

Given that you've never proven that assertion...

Given almost all the Apple Bionic CPUs (and the secure enclave) have traditionally been found to contain unpatchable security holes, nospam,
how can you make the claim that iPhones are any more secure than Android?

You're language is so...

...carefully couched.

Given even the Cellebrite Pegasus tool has _only_ infected the kernel in iPhones, and, in fact, many times it has infected the kernel, and yet, Pegasus can NOT infect the Android kernel (as far as has been
published), how can you make that assessment, nospam, on security differences?

You should explain that to Amnesty International:

'This report documents the forensic traces left on iOS and Android
devices following targeting with the Pegasus spyware.'

<https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/research/2021/07/forensic-methodology-report-how-to-catch-nso-groups-pegasus/>

'In Amnesty International’s experience there are significantly more
forensic traces accessible to investigators on Apple iOS devices than on
stock Android devices'

Note the use of the word "more" and all its implications.

You should also tell these folks:

'Understanding the Pegasus affair

Pegasus is a malware capable of compromising most mobile devices with
Android and iOS operating systems.'

<https://irisbh.com.br/en/government-hacking-and-the-digital-insecurity-industry/>

<https://www.google.com/search?q=pegasus+spyware+removal+android>>

Given iOS 15 is not fully patched, as per Apple's own recently forced admission, such that only iOS 16 will get all known security patches,
how can you make any assessment at all about Apple iPhone security when you don't know even that simple fact, which you've proven to be ignorant of?

Got a cite for iOS 15 not being fully patched?

No, huh?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)