• USB to ethernet adapter between W98 and Win7?

    From Louis Ohland@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 2 07:25:07 2023
    Or...

    Win7 USB [Dell 7010] -- USB to evilnet adapter -- Evilnet Win98 [8590]

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From IBMMuseum@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 2 08:18:57 2023
    Win7 USB [Dell 7010] -- USB to evilnet adapter -- Evilnet Win98 [8590]

    The USB drivers go back as far as XP typically, but not much further (and it has to be USB 2.0 for 10/100, and USB 3.0/USB-C for gigabit). We have a second network we add via USB - although it is convoluted and we are moving away to simplify the networks.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Louis Ohland@21:1/5 to IBMMuseum on Thu Feb 2 10:53:52 2023
    RTL8153 does auto correct, nice to eliminate need for crossover cables.

    The RTL8153 is directly supported under Win7 x64.

    My ASSumption is the W98 box shovels out 10Mbit, the RTL8153 changes
    that into USB. What could go wrong?

    IBMMuseum wrote:
    Win7 USB [Dell 7010] -- USB to evilnet adapter -- Evilnet Win98 [8590]

    The USB drivers go back as far as XP typically, but not much further (and it has to be USB 2.0 for 10/100, and USB 3.0/USB-C for gigabit). We have a second network we add via USB - although it is convoluted and we are moving away to simplify the
    networks.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From IBMMuseum@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 2 09:13:38 2023
    RTL8153 does auto correct, nice to eliminate need for crossover cables.

    Get an Ethernet switch ($20 - many people are throwing old ones out; I have a box with about 15 - 20 of the things) - get rid of any need to have a crossover cable.

    As said earlier, USB-to-Ethernet is going to be based on the USB version on the W9x system - find a PCI USB 2.0 board that has Windows 98 drivers and your issue is closer to a solution (the USB-to-Ethernet will also need Windows 9x support) - the
    motherboard USB of a Windows 98 system will be version 1.1 at most. Doesn't the Windows 98 system have an Ethernet NIC you can put in?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Tomas Slavotinek@21:1/5 to Louis Ohland on Thu Feb 2 18:40:15 2023
    On 02.02.2023 17:53, Louis Ohland wrote:
    RTL8153 does auto correct, nice to eliminate need for crossover cables.

    The RTL8153 is directly supported under Win7 x64.

    My ASSumption is the W98 box shovels out 10Mbit, the RTL8153 changes
    that into USB. What could go wrong?

    Nothing... what you describe is a pretty standard setup. USB ethernet
    dongles are generally trouble-free. I use them to create a simple and controlled environment for firmware development.

    Crossover cables are history. Nearly all modern ethernet devices support auto-crossover.

    10 Mbit won't cause any trouble either...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Louis Ohland@21:1/5 to IBMMuseum on Thu Feb 2 11:43:58 2023
    Dave, the Win7-based Dell 7010 has USB 3.0 and 2.0 ports, front and
    back. Any USB to ethernet adapter will be plugged into a USB 2.0 port.
    The intent is to run the ethernet cable over to a 3c529 ensconced in a Win98-based Model 90.

    It is not my goal to add even more equipment than I absolutely have to. Especially since a switch would need power. Add another power brick or a
    larger hub with a PSU.

    IBMMuseum wrote:
    RTL8153 does auto correct, nice to eliminate need for crossover cables.

    Get an Ethernet switch ($20 - many people are throwing old ones out; I have a box with about 15 - 20 of the things) - get rid of any need to have a crossover cable.

    As said earlier, USB-to-Ethernet is going to be based on the USB version on the W9x system - find a PCI USB 2.0 board that has Windows 98 drivers and your issue is closer to a solution (the USB-to-Ethernet will also need Windows 9x support) - the
    motherboard USB of a Windows 98 system will be version 1.1 at most. Doesn't the Windows 98 system have an Ethernet NIC you can put in?


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tomas Slavotinek@21:1/5 to IBMMuseum on Thu Feb 2 18:42:05 2023
    On 02.02.2023 18:13, IBMMuseum wrote:
    RTL8153 does auto correct, nice to eliminate need for crossover cables.

    Get an Ethernet switch ($20 - many people are throwing old ones out; I have a box with about 15 - 20 of the things) - get rid of any need to have a crossover cable.

    As said earlier, USB-to-Ethernet is going to be based on the USB version on the W9x system - find a PCI USB 2.0 board that has Windows 98 drivers and your issue is closer to a solution (the USB-to-Ethernet will also need Windows 9x support) - the
    motherboard USB of a Windows 98 system will be version 1.1 at most. Doesn't the Windows 98 system have an Ethernet NIC you can put in?

    Dave, the Win98 box is a Model 90. So, no need to worry about USB
    versions or driver support there... :)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Louis Ohland@21:1/5 to Tomas Slavotinek on Thu Feb 2 12:04:47 2023
    Tom, though 10Mbit is so 1990s, it sure beats the stuffing out of ZEERO
    Mbit/s. Potentially orders of magnitude cheaper than a 5 port AnywhereUSB.

    Tomas Slavotinek wrote:
    On 02.02.2023 17:53, Louis Ohland wrote:
    RTL8153 does auto correct, nice to eliminate need for crossover cables.

    The RTL8153 is directly supported under Win7 x64.

    My ASSumption is the W98 box shovels out 10Mbit, the RTL8153 changes
    that into USB. What could go wrong?

    Nothing... what you describe is a pretty standard setup. USB ethernet
    dongles are generally trouble-free. I use them to create a simple and controlled environment for firmware development.

    Crossover cables are history. Nearly all modern ethernet devices support auto-crossover.

    10 Mbit won't cause any trouble either...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tomas Slavotinek@21:1/5 to Louis Ohland on Thu Feb 2 19:28:52 2023
    On 02.02.2023 19:04, Louis Ohland wrote:
    Tom, though 10Mbit is so 1990s,

    And so are our PS/2s...

    it sure beats the stuffing out of ZEERO
    Mbit/s. Potentially orders of magnitude cheaper than a 5 port AnywhereUSB.

    Yea, I find 10 Mbit acceptable. File transfers, music streaming, light
    internet browsing...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ryan Alswede@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 2 11:45:01 2023
    This topic made me remember this disc. Anybody ever try it. Support anything good or just buzz words.

    https://archive.org/details/Microsoft_Windows_95_With_USB_Support_Microsoft_000-59944_1997

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Tomas Slavotinek@21:1/5 to JWR on Thu Feb 2 21:22:30 2023
    On 02.02.2023 21:16, JWR wrote:
    On 02-02-2023 20:45, Ryan Alswede wrote:
    This topic made me remember this disc.   Anybody ever try it.  Support
    anything good or just buzz words.

    https://archive.org/details/Microsoft_Windows_95_With_USB_Support_Microsoft_000-59944_1997

    IIRC that was W95 OSR2 ("B"-version) or OSR2.1

    It worked. Somewhat. Mind you, USB was still pretty new and not very
    common.
    Plug-and-play was pretty ambitious, but still worked sometimes.
    Disconnecting USB-hardware without notifying Windows first ==> unplug-and-pray

    Yeah, it shipped with OSR 2.1 and 2.5 but had to be installed manually
    IIRC. It's extremely limited, even compared to Win98's USB support. No
    native HID support, mass-storage devices will work, but require 3rd
    party drivers... meh.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JWR@21:1/5 to Ryan Alswede on Thu Feb 2 21:16:28 2023
    On 02-02-2023 20:45, Ryan Alswede wrote:
    This topic made me remember this disc. Anybody ever try it. Support anything good or just buzz words.

    https://archive.org/details/Microsoft_Windows_95_With_USB_Support_Microsoft_000-59944_1997



    IIRC that was W95 OSR2 ("B"-version) or OSR2.1

    It worked. Somewhat. Mind you, USB was still pretty new and not very common. Plug-and-play was pretty ambitious, but still worked sometimes.
    Disconnecting USB-hardware without notifying Windows first ==> unplug-and-pray

    --
    Jelte,
    Admirer of the letter of IBM with blue Ishiki

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Grant Taylor@21:1/5 to Louis Ohland on Thu Feb 2 14:16:36 2023
    On 2/2/23 6:25 AM, Louis Ohland wrote:
    Win7 USB [Dell 7010] -- USB to evilnet adapter -- Evilnet Win98 [8590]

    The biggest issue I see is that the SMB networking in the Windows 7
    system probably will not want to talk to the SMB networking in the
    Windows 98 system.

    You /might/ be able to beat Win7 into submission by tweaking settings / disabling encryption / etc.

    You might want to plan on something other than SMB transfers.



    --
    Grant. . . .
    unix || die

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Louis Ohland@21:1/5 to Grant Taylor on Tue Feb 7 07:13:42 2023
    https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/previous-versions//bb727013(v=technet.10)?redirectedfrom=MSDN

    Grant Taylor wrote:
    On 2/2/23 6:25 AM, Louis Ohland wrote:
    Win7 USB [Dell 7010] -- USB to evilnet adapter -- Evilnet Win98 [8590]

    The biggest issue I see is that the SMB networking in the Windows 7
    system probably will not want to talk to the SMB networking in the
    Windows 98 system.

    You /might/ be able to beat Win7 into submission by tweaking settings / disabling encryption / etc.

    You might want to plan on something other than SMB transfers.




    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Louis Ohland@21:1/5 to Grant Taylor on Tue Feb 7 06:43:48 2023
    Repressed memories.

    Grant Taylor wrote:
    The biggest issue I see is that the SMB networking in the Windows 7
    system probably will not want to talk to the SMB networking in the
    Windows 98 system.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Louis Ohland@21:1/5 to Grant Taylor on Tue Feb 7 07:20:41 2023
    https://msfn.org/board/topic/154025-connecting-a-windows-98-and-windows-7-through-a-network/?do=findComment&comment=1169256

    Grant Taylor wrote:
    On 2/2/23 6:25 AM, Louis Ohland wrote:
    Win7 USB [Dell 7010] -- USB to evilnet adapter -- Evilnet Win98 [8590]

    The biggest issue I see is that the SMB networking in the Windows 7
    system probably will not want to talk to the SMB networking in the
    Windows 98 system.

    You /might/ be able to beat Win7 into submission by tweaking settings / disabling encryption / etc.

    You might want to plan on something other than SMB transfers.




    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Louis Ohland@21:1/5 to Grant Taylor on Tue Feb 7 07:18:59 2023
    https://msfn.org/board/topic/154025-connecting-a-windows-98-and-windows-7-through-a-network/?do=findComment&comment=1014332

    That is closer...

    Grant Taylor wrote:
    On 2/2/23 6:25 AM, Louis Ohland wrote:
    Win7 USB [Dell 7010] -- USB to evilnet adapter -- Evilnet Win98 [8590]

    The biggest issue I see is that the SMB networking in the Windows 7
    system probably will not want to talk to the SMB networking in the
    Windows 98 system.

    You /might/ be able to beat Win7 into submission by tweaking settings / disabling encryption / etc.

    You might want to plan on something other than SMB transfers.




    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Louis Ohland@21:1/5 to Grant Taylor on Tue Feb 7 07:22:56 2023
    https://www.techrepublic.com/article/dsclientexe-connects-windows-9x-nt-pcs-to-active-directory/

    Grant Taylor wrote:
    On 2/2/23 6:25 AM, Louis Ohland wrote:
    Win7 USB [Dell 7010] -- USB to evilnet adapter -- Evilnet Win98 [8590]

    The biggest issue I see is that the SMB networking in the Windows 7
    system probably will not want to talk to the SMB networking in the
    Windows 98 system.

    You /might/ be able to beat Win7 into submission by tweaking settings / disabling encryption / etc.

    You might want to plan on something other than SMB transfers.




    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Louis Ohland@21:1/5 to Louis Ohland on Tue Feb 7 07:36:01 2023
    DSClient.exe English version 5.0.2920.5 (this is the latest as far as I
    know based on KB Article 323466)

    https://web.archive.org/web/20190118172717/https://www.mdgx.com/files/DSCLIENT.EXE

    Louis Ohland wrote:
    https://www.techrepublic.com/article/dsclientexe-connects-windows-9x-nt-pcs-to-active-directory/


    Grant Taylor wrote:
    On 2/2/23 6:25 AM, Louis Ohland wrote:
    Win7 USB [Dell 7010] -- USB to evilnet adapter -- Evilnet Win98 [8590]

    The biggest issue I see is that the SMB networking in the Windows 7
    system probably will not want to talk to the SMB networking in the
    Windows 98 system.

    You /might/ be able to beat Win7 into submission by tweaking settings
    / disabling encryption / etc.

    You might want to plan on something other than SMB transfers.




    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Louis Ohland@21:1/5 to Grant Taylor on Tue Feb 7 07:52:56 2023
    https://www.betaarchive.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35892

    Grant Taylor wrote:
    On 2/2/23 6:25 AM, Louis Ohland wrote:
    Win7 USB [Dell 7010] -- USB to evilnet adapter -- Evilnet Win98 [8590]

    The biggest issue I see is that the SMB networking in the Windows 7
    system probably will not want to talk to the SMB networking in the
    Windows 98 system.

    You /might/ be able to beat Win7 into submission by tweaking settings / disabling encryption / etc.

    You might want to plan on something other than SMB transfers.




    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Louis Ohland@21:1/5 to Grant Taylor on Tue Feb 7 07:47:52 2023
    https://web.archive.org/web/20140815230743/http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;239869

    Grant Taylor wrote:
    On 2/2/23 6:25 AM, Louis Ohland wrote:
    Win7 USB [Dell 7010] -- USB to evilnet adapter -- Evilnet Win98 [8590]

    The biggest issue I see is that the SMB networking in the Windows 7
    system probably will not want to talk to the SMB networking in the
    Windows 98 system.

    You /might/ be able to beat Win7 into submission by tweaking settings / disabling encryption / etc.

    You might want to plan on something other than SMB transfers.




    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Grant Taylor@21:1/5 to Louis Ohland on Tue Feb 7 09:54:58 2023
    On 2/7/23 6:20 AM, Louis Ohland wrote:
    https://msfn.org/board/topic/154025-connecting-a-windows-98-and-windows-7-through-a-network/?do=findComment&comment=1169256

    *nod*

    Enabling backwards compatibility in the newer Windows 7 system.

    I'm not sure how many versions of Windows you can do that to. I suspect
    that at some point Microsoft removed support for -- shall we say --
    ancient clients. ;-)

    I'd be shocked if you could still enable the same old version support in Windows 11.



    --
    Grant. . . .
    unix || die

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Grant Taylor@21:1/5 to Louis Ohland on Tue Feb 7 09:52:55 2023
    On 2/7/23 6:22 AM, Louis Ohland wrote:
    https://www.techrepublic.com/article/dsclientexe-connects-windows-9x-nt-pcs-to-active-directory/

    My understanding of the (Active) Directory Services client for 9x / NT
    is that it adds some features like searching AD (LDAP) and DFS client
    support.

    I thought that it used the existing SMB client as is and didn't modify it.



    --
    Grant. . . .
    unix || die

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From IBMMuseum@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 7 09:52:46 2023
    A factor for Louis using the USB-to-Ethernet adapter as a second NIC on his Windows 7 machine will be that SMB1 would be enabled globally on the system - including for the primary NIC uplink. It would be nice if it were per connection instead. Having a
    good firewall that is locked down can lower the risk of SMB1 being opened, however.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Louis Ohland@21:1/5 to Louis Ohland on Tue Feb 7 12:25:12 2023
    https://web.archive.org/web/20140815230743/http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;239869

    When you install Active Directory Client Extensions on a computer that
    is running Windows 98, the system files that provide NTLM 2 support are
    also automatically installed. These files are Secur32.dll, Msnp32.dll, Vredir.vxd, and Vnetsup.vxd. If you remove Active Directory Client
    Extension, the NTLM 2 system files are not removed because the files
    provide both enhanced security functionality and security-related fixes.

    Enabling NTLM 2 for Windows 95, Windows 98, or Windows 98 Second Edition clients
    Important This section, method, or task contains steps that tell you how
    to modify the registry. However, serious problems might occur if you
    modify the registry incorrectly. Therefore, make sure that you follow
    these steps carefully. For added protection, back up the registry before
    you modify it. Then, you can restore the registry if a problem occurs.
    For more information about how to back up and restore the registry,
    click the following article number to view the article in the Microsoft Knowledge Base:
    322756 How to back up and restore the registry in Windows

    To enable a Windows 95, Windows 98, or Windows 98 Second Edition client
    for NTLM 2 authentication, install the Directory Services Client. To
    activate NTLM 2 on the client, follow these steps:

    Start Registry Editor (Regedit.exe).
    Locate and click the following key in the registry:
    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Control
    Create an LSA registry key in the registry key listed above.
    On the Edit menu, click Add Value, and then add the following
    registry value:
    Value Name: LMCompatibility
    Data Type: REG_DWORD
    Value: 3
    Valid Range: 0,3
    Description: This parameter specifies the mode of authentication
    and session security to be used for network logons. It does not affect interactive logons.
    Level 0 - Send LM and NTLM response; never use NTLM 2 session security. Clients will use LM and NTLM authentication, and never use
    NTLM 2 session security; domain controllers accept LM, NTLM, and NTLM 2 authentication.
    Level 3 - Send NTLM 2 response only. Clients will use NTLM 2 authentication and use NTLM 2 session security if the server supports
    it; domain controllers accept LM, NTLM, and NTLM 2 authentication.


    Louis Ohland wrote:
    From my readings, you can uninstall it, but the components needed will remain...

    Grant Taylor wrote:
    My understanding of the (Active) Directory Services client for 9x / NT
    is that it adds some features like searching AD (LDAP) and DFS client
    support.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Louis Ohland@21:1/5 to Grant Taylor on Tue Feb 7 12:15:41 2023
    From my readings, you can uninstall it, but the components needed will remain...

    Grant Taylor wrote:
    My understanding of the (Active) Directory Services client for 9x / NT
    is that it adds some features like searching AD (LDAP) and DFS client support.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Louis Ohland@21:1/5 to Louis Ohland on Tue Feb 7 12:47:09 2023
    https://knowledge.broadcom.com/external/article/152500/configuring-windows-vista-and-windows-7.html


    Cause

    Windows Vista and Windows 7 requires a group policy change to use the
    NTLMv1 protocol instead of NTLMv2. Other versions of Windows can also
    have this issue if your organization's security policy does not support
    NTLMv1. If you do not make this change, it can affect authentication for
    users at your site.


    Resolution

    You must perform this procedure on every computer that runs has this
    issue in
    your network.

    Alternatively, you can use the Active Directory group policy to make
    this change for all computers.

    To configure NTLM compatibility for Windows Vista or Windows 7

    1 Click Start > All Programs > Accessories > Run and type secpol.msc in the Open box, and then click OK.

    2 Click Local Policies > Security Options > Network Security: LAN Manager authentication level.

    3 Click SendLM& NTLM - use NTLMv2 session security if negotiated.

    4 Click Apply.

    But. Is this per interface or per computer?

    Louis Ohland wrote:
    From my readings, you can uninstall it, but the components needed will remain...

    Grant Taylor wrote:
    My understanding of the (Active) Directory Services client for 9x / NT
    is that it adds some features like searching AD (LDAP) and DFS client
    support.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Louis Ohland@21:1/5 to IBMMuseum on Wed Feb 8 18:35:54 2023
    Yeah, I'm hoping that a Group policy might allow binding a protocol to
    an individual adapter... hope is not an improved planning process...

    IBMMuseum wrote:
    A factor for Louis using the USB-to-Ethernet adapter as a second NIC on his Windows 7 machine will be that SMB1 would be enabled globally on the system - including for the primary NIC uplink. It would be nice if it were per connection instead. Having a
    good firewall that is locked down can lower the risk of SMB1 being opened, however.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)