• Kinetic Energy formula check - a series of short burn rockets, and see

    From Dave@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jan 8 09:36:08 2023
    XPost: sci.physics, alt.sci.physics, uk.politics.misc

    Kinetic Energy formula check - a series of short burn rockets, and see
    how the velocity adds up.

    Is it v or v^2?

    Is this formula E=0.5mv^2 correct, or is it more like E= mv?

    Also can calculate the kinetic energy before and after each stage -
    check velocity from the experimental apparatus.

    Ideally use an airtrack - no rotational inertia to be concerned with.
    Needs good design so each rocket burn adds the same energy.

    Remember this correction is for basic, military and professional
    education - nothing to do with university.

    This is bread and butter basic physics.

    Copyright release on the above in exact and equivalent:
    (and rights and patents) all public domain - attribution annon.:

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  • From Dave@21:1/5 to Dave on Sun Jan 8 10:13:45 2023
    XPost: sci.physics, alt.sci.physics, uk.politics.misc

    On 23 08, Dave wrote:
    Kinetic Energy formula check - a series of short burn rockets, and see
    how the velocity adds up.

    Is it v or v^2?

    Is this formula E=0.5mv^2 correct, or is it more like E= mv?

    Also can calculate the kinetic energy before and after each stage -
    check velocity from the experimental apparatus.

    Ideally use an airtrack - no rotational inertia to be concerned with.
    Needs good design so each rocket burn adds the same energy.

    Remember this correction is for basic, military and professional
    education - nothing to do with university.

    This is bread and butter basic physics.

    Copyright release on the above in exact and equivalent:
    (and rights and patents) all public domain - attribution annon.:
    Is this one of the reasons why France split between Engineering Schools
    and universities? Likely universities are constituted to teach whatever
    they like. Let the students deal with this.

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  • From Jim Pennino@21:1/5 to Dave on Sun Jan 8 08:16:31 2023
    XPost: sci.physics, alt.sci.physics, uk.politics.misc

    In sci.physics Dave <dwickford@yahoo.com> wrote:
    Kinetic Energy formula check - a series of short burn rockets, and see
    how the velocity adds up.

    Is it v or v^2?

    Is this formula E=0.5mv^2 correct, or is it more like E= mv?

    Read:

    https://www.toppr.com/guides/physics/motion/equations-of-motion/

    and learn how the derivation of the equations of motion is done using
    the algebraic method, the graphical method, and the calculus method.

    No vacuum chambers or precision timers required, just the basic
    assumptions that distances are meters, acceleration is constant and in
    units of m/s^2 and time is in seconds.

    <snip crackpot babble>

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  • From Thomas Heger@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jan 9 09:07:50 2023
    XPost: sci.physics, alt.sci.physics, uk.politics.misc

    Am 08.01.2023 um 10:36 schrieb Dave:
    Is it v or v^2?

    Is this formula E=0.5mv^2 correct, or is it more like E= mv?


    That should depend on the used units for E, m and v.

    As unit systems have different degrees of internal consistency, you
    should certainly be able to find an example for both factors.


    I usually use SI units only and would get 0.5 as factor, but have not
    verified the exponent 2 myself.

    In general I would prefer the quantity momentum over energy, because v
    is frame dependent, hence also kinetic energy.

    Then I would like to compare conservation of momentum and conservation
    of energy, but suggest choosing conservation of momentum over
    conservation of energy.

    TH

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  • From Joe@21:1/5 to Thomas Heger on Mon Jan 9 14:13:13 2023
    XPost: sci.physics, alt.sci.physics, uk.politics.misc

    On Mon, 09 Jan 2023 09:07:50 +0100
    Thomas Heger <ttt_heg@web.de> wrote:

    Am 08.01.2023 um 10:36 schrieb Dave:
    Is it v or v^2?

    Is this formula E=0.5mv^2 correct, or is it more like E= mv?


    That should depend on the used units for E, m and v.

    As unit systems have different degrees of internal consistency, you
    should certainly be able to find an example for both factors.


    I usually use SI units only and would get 0.5 as factor, but have not verified the exponent 2 myself.

    In general I would prefer the quantity momentum over energy, because
    v is frame dependent, hence also kinetic energy.

    Then I would like to compare conservation of momentum and
    conservation of energy, but suggest choosing conservation of momentum
    over conservation of energy.

    TH

    The whole question revolves around kinetic energy being a different
    thing from momentum, not just being a different word for it. To begin
    with, we have no idea of the absolute kinetic energy or the absolute
    momentum of an object, because we have no idea how fast an object is
    moving, and according Einstein, we never can know it. So we work on
    relative quantities, generally relative to 'stationary with respect to
    the bit of Earth's surface where the action takes place'.

    The kinetic energy of an object of mass m moving at velocity v is the
    amount of energy required to raise the mass from a stationary position
    to the velocity v, or to slow it down to stationary. You can start from
    first principles with length and time, going through force,
    acceleration and work, or you can work directly with velocity as the independent variable.

    The integral of momentum mv from zero to v with respect to v is 0.5 * m
    * v^2. It's a definite integral, over a particular range, so there is no constant of integration.

    The same principle applies to other forms of 'moving', such as the
    current in an inductor and the voltage change across a capacitor. The
    energy stored in the former is 0.5 * L * i^2, in the latter is 0.5 * C
    * V^2. Both arise from the same kinds of integral, calculating the
    total energy required to achieve a particular voltage or current
    value. In the latter case, there is a quantity called 'charge', which
    is equal to C * V and is analogous to mechanical momentum.

    Momentum is useful in particular situations, for example solving
    problems involving snooker balls. Anything involving resonance is best understood in terms of energy, as resonance is the repeated conversion
    of one type of energy to another, and back again.

    Almost all mechanical, electric or electronic engineering would simply
    not work if engineers did not know how to calculate energy, as the OP
    suggests.

    --
    Joe

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  • From Thomas Heger@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 11 10:42:12 2023
    XPost: sci.physics, alt.sci.physics, uk.politics.misc

    Am 09.01.2023 um 15:13 schrieb Joe:
    ...

    Momentum is useful in particular situations, for example solving
    problems involving snooker balls. Anything involving resonance is best understood in terms of energy, as resonance is the repeated conversion
    of one type of energy to another, and back again.

    My problem with momentum and energy is, that momentum is known to be a conserved quantity and energy assumed to be.

    But momentum is m*v, while kinetic energy is 1/2 *m *vē.

    How could both quantities possibly be both conserved for the same
    object, with same mass m and same velocity v, if one curve of that
    quantity over v is linear with v and one quadratic ????

    If v gets smaller a little, than both curves cannot possibly coincide
    with their respective conservation curve, hence one quantity is not
    conserved, if v is altered. But we can easily alter v, because v is
    frame dependent. And choosing a different coordinate system should not
    alter the state of an object, hence neither energy nor momentum.

    TH

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  • From Thomas Heger@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jan 11 11:22:00 2023
    XPost: sci.physics, alt.sci.physics, uk.politics.misc

    Am 11.01.2023 um 10:42 schrieb Thomas Heger:
    Am 09.01.2023 um 15:13 schrieb Joe:
    ...

    Momentum is useful in particular situations, for example solving
    problems involving snooker balls. Anything involving resonance is best
    understood in terms of energy, as resonance is the repeated conversion
    of one type of energy to another, and back again.

    My problem with momentum and energy is, that momentum is known to be a conserved quantity and energy assumed to be.

    But momentum is m*v, while kinetic energy is 1/2 *m *vē.

    How could both quantities possibly be both conserved for the same
    object, with same mass m and same velocity v, if one curve of that
    quantity over v is linear with v and one quadratic ????

    If v gets smaller a little, than both curves cannot possibly coincide
    with their respective conservation curve, hence one quantity is not conserved, if v is altered. But we can easily alter v, because v is
    frame dependent. And choosing a different coordinate system should not
    alter the state of an object, hence neither energy nor momentum.


    This is actually wrong, because momentum is not independent of the state
    of an object, against which a flying object hits. The velocity v is
    therefore not arbitrary and should be relative to the stationary object,
    which serves as target.

    This is also the case for kinetic energy, which is also depending on the
    state of motion of a possible target.


    TH

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  • From Sylvia Else@21:1/5 to Dave on Sat Jan 28 09:01:49 2023
    XPost: sci.physics, alt.sci.physics, uk.politics.misc

    On 08-Jan-23 8:36 pm, Dave wrote:
    Kinetic Energy formula check - a series of short burn rockets, and see
    how the velocity adds up.

    During a rocket burn there is a frame dependent split between the energy
    ending up the exhaust and the thing being propelled. So trying to
    analyse kinetic energy by looking at rocket burns will get you nowhere.

    Sylvia.

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