RE: Social Media Subsitute
BY: All

Since Facebook and Reddit are getting rid of certain confrences due to censorship, maybe we need to come up with a way to encourage those people to consider the bbs so we can have more future users for our bbses and traffic for fidonet.



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Hello Matt,

Since Facebook and Reddit are getting rid of certain confrences due to
censorship, maybe we need to come up with a way to encourage those
people to consider the bbs so we can have more future users for our
bbses and traffic for fidonet.

I'm not sure we here in the BBS or Fidonet world are ready to be the next Facebook or Reddit but there are still many BBSs available for anyone to call into if they choose.

I think another option would be apps designed for Fidonet messaging for the Android or IPad users since that seems to be the way people do their messaging these days on their tablet or phone.

I'm not sure how that would work but something to think on.

Ttyl :-),
Al

--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

Since Facebook and Reddit are getting rid of certain confrences due to censorship, maybe we need to come up with a way to encourage those
people to consider the bbs so we can have more future users for our
bbses and traffic for fidonet.

It's what I did almost a year ago. Got sick & tired of being banned when some fundamentalist got their feelings hurt by something I wrote or reposted. Was
a FidoNet hub during the Golden Age of the early 90's & remembered I was
never treated like how FB & such treat people.

ACME BBS-Member of fsxNet/WWIVNet/SciNet/AmigaNet/VKRadio/FidoNet/MicroNet.

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On 02 Aug 20 11:31:59, Matt Munson said the following to All:

Since Facebook and Reddit are getting rid of certain confrences due to censorship, maybe we need to come up with a way to encourage those people consider the bbs so we can have more future users for our bbses and

traffic

for fidonet.

Ahh, this idea again. This has been discussed soooooo many times over the years.

Once again, the only newcomers who will join Fido these days will be
tech-guys looking for a nice bit of nostalgia. Not casual users fed up with social media. Fidonet doesn't have fancy graphics or an easy interface or "hook" to keep people interested. Its just a silly message exchange using software that one must have quite the tech skillset to configure properly.

There has to be software dumbed down enough so non-techies can easily join
and thats coming from a Fido developer point of view. I did the best I could with D'Bridge but its nowhere near easy enough for the non-techie.

No sane person in their right mind will configure a mailer, tosser, nodelist compiler, message editor etc. Nobody does that. Its 2020, not 1990.

If someone writes that wonderful dumbed-down app, *then* we can talk about Fido being a serious alternative to social media.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

On 03/08/2020 7:23 a.m., Nick Andre : Matt Munson wrote:

There has to be software dumbed down enough so non-techies can
easily join and thats coming from a Fido developer point of
view. I did the best I could with D'Bridge but its nowhere near
easy enough for the non-techie.

D'B is a good all-inclusive "kit" for something to join the Fidonet fray.

But it wouldn't cooperate for me. :( It just kept certain outbound messages on
Hold and never sent them anywhere. I had to give up on it.

No sane person in their right mind will configure a mailer,
tosser, nodelist compiler, message editor etc. Nobody does that.
Its 2020, not 1990.

So.. most people here are insane? LOL The future does not look very bright at all.

If someone writes that wonderful dumbed-down app, *then* we can
talk about Fido being a serious alternative to social media.

Even a dumbed-down app would need basic core of credentials at configuration, not unlike what D'B requires at install. There won't be a one-click one-step solution. Some understanding of the terminologies used would also be a benefit to the member/user.

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On 02/08/2020 2:31 p.m., Matt Munson : All wrote:

Since Facebook and Reddit are getting rid of certain confrences due to censorship, maybe we need to come up with a way to encourage those people

to

consider the bbs so we can have more future users for our bbses and

traffic

for fidonet.

Sounds like FB and Reddit may be getting complaints from other users for legit reasons and rightly so? I would imagine that most fidonet sysops wouldn't put
up with the same thing either. Individual systems bear the cost of maintaining fidonet existence. FB and Reddit are monetized.

So, censored ex-FB and ex-Reddit users are not a good fit for fidonet.

They can probably find joy a 4chan ..which I find is a very interesting platform: very well organized and anonymous.

--
/|ug

--- TB(Stealth)/Win7
* Origin: nntp://rbb.fidonet.fi - Lake Ylo - Finland (2:221/360.0)

Matt Munson wrote to All <=-

Since Facebook and Reddit are getting rid of certain confrences due to censorship, maybe we need to come up with a way to encourage those
people to consider the bbs so we can have more future users for our
bbses and traffic for fidonet.

As many have stated earlier, those who will don't need any encouragement and those who need, will not bring anything in the scene.
Sure there is small communities that can use BBS as a alternative for web forums (which are mostly shite anyway), but that's about it.


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Re: Social Media Subsitute
By: August Abolins to Matt Munson on Mon Aug 03 2020 07:55 pm

So, censored ex-FB and ex-Reddit users are not a good fit for fidonet.

I think you are painting censored users with a rough brush here.

People gets banned or mob-lynched-banned for lots of reasons. There is people who got their Facebook account suspended because their REAL name sounded offensive in some language in the other side of the world.

Not to mention that lots of censored rooms/pages/whatever that get erradicated because they are "dens of dangerous derranged people" are sometimes therapy groups more than anything else. Picking an extreme example: it is better for Reddit to censor a sub for non-practicing pedophiles, but I don't think it is good idea to force otherwise legit users out of the network. That is the equivalent of closing an anti-suicide support subreddit because it does not look good in your platform to have depressed people who needs a reason to stay alive.

For me, this is the real reason why things such as federated messaging platforms (such as Fido) and darknets are so important. Unpopular people has the need of their own corner of the Internet. Specially if they are really unpopular, because when they are universally hated, the only support they may find is in some obscure IRC server or network.


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On 03 Aug 20 19:37:47, August Abolins said the following to Nick Andre:

D'B is a good all-inclusive "kit" for something to join the Fidonet fray.

But it wouldn't cooperate for me. :( It just kept certain outbound

messag

on
Hold and never sent them anywhere. I had to give up on it.

I'm not sure where we left off with that, but D'B will not connect to a point system of another node. I'm not sure if thats what the problem was or not but we can always circle back if theres time.

So.. most people here are insane? LOL The future does not look very

bright

all.

LOL C'mon... whats normal about continuing to use a silly message network nowadays in 2020?

Even a dumbed-down app would need basic core of credentials at

configuratio

not unlike what D'B requires at install. There won't be a one-click

one-st

solution. Some understanding of the terminologies used would also be a

bene

to the member/user.

The thing is, you can instantly join FB and Reddit and 4chan and all that. You just can't do that in Fido.

I think we talked about this before; likely any new app will just be an extension off someone's BBS.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Hello Richard!

** On Monday 03.08.20 - 17:00, Richard Falken wrote to August Abolins:

So, censored ex-FB and ex-Reddit users are not a good fit for fidonet.

I think you are painting censored users with a rough brush here.

[snip]

For me, this is the real reason why things such as federated
messaging platforms (such as Fido) and darknets are so important. Unpopular people has the need of their own corner of the Internet. Specially if they are really unpopular, because when they are
universally hated, the only support they may find is in some obscure
IRC server or network.

Well said. Noted. I jumped to conclusions and assumed that the ousted groups were only the types being offensive in some way.

4chan could probably be a fine home for those ex-people.

4chan is an interesting messaging model. It is very fast. It has a
mobile version of the interface - with no ads (I got a DNS spoffing
warning when switching it). It is totally anonymous. Access is instant. Perfect for people are on their pcs with 24/7 internet connections.

Hard for me to wrap my head around the messaging style, and I would miss
the offline capability of fidonet style.


../|ug

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* Origin: The future is not what it used to be. (2:221/1.58)

On 08-02-20 21:53, Alan Ianson wrote to Matt Munson <=-

I think another option would be apps designed for Fidonet messaging for the Android or IPad users since that seems to be the way people do
their messaging these days on their tablet or phone.

Definitely needed. Well, offline mail is an option, especially for boards that
support QWK over FTP.


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On 04 Aug 2020, Tony Langdon said the following...

Definitely needed. Well, offline mail is an option, especially for
boards that support QWK over FTP.

Yep, QWK is well supported and has been up and running for about the same amount of time as FTN networks. It has a dependency on a BBS though. I don't think that's a bad thing myself but folks today are not (in any numbers at
all) going to sign up at a BBS to join the conversations that are going on.

In the 80's and most of the 90's if you wanted to get online you got on a BBS but that's not the case anymore. BBSs are among my favorite things but they don't have the place in the world that they once did.

I think the idea of apps for a tablet or phone, or other device is interesting but it's not easy. We'd need a way to serve those apps also so we'd have to design, implement and maintain that on top of what we are already doing. We would need to experiment with all that to find what can work.

I'm not a programmer but I wonder.. since BBSs already have "the stuff" if
such a service could be done and if it is desirable.

Ttyl :-),
Al

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On 08-04-20 22:36, Alan Ianson wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

Yep, QWK is well supported and has been up and running for about the
same amount of time as FTN networks. It has a dependency on a BBS
though. I don't think that's a bad thing myself but folks today are not (in any numbers at all) going to sign up at a BBS to join the conversations that are going on.

Well, I'm not sure what you're proposing, or if it even makes any sense, because the BBS is the entry point to the network. Sure, you can run a point, but there's a lot more complexity there. And for those of us who want mobile access to existing accounts, the point paradigm is totally wrong. That would be like logging into social media and finding all your stateuses and group memberships are different on every device you own!

The BBS at least provides something that can keep track of those variables across multiple devices.

In the 80's and most of the 90's if you wanted to get online you got on
a BBS but that's not the case anymore. BBSs are among my favorite
things but they don't have the place in the world that they once did.

I think the idea of apps for a tablet or phone, or other device is interesting but it's not easy. We'd need a way to serve those apps also
so we'd have to design, implement and maintain that on top of what we
are already doing. We would need to experiment with all that to find
what can work.

You may be going a bit Internet centric with this and overthinking it. :) What's wrong with a network where you choose your home base (i.e. BBS?). With cooperation from BBS authors, you could simplify the signup process to "username and password", with the rest of the info being stored in your profile
on the device and sent to the BBS during a registration "handshake". And of course, if you register on your mobile device, you can simply login later from your PC. :)


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Hello Tony,

Well, I'm not sure what you're proposing, or if it even makes any
sense,

OK, I'll explain again.

because the BBS is the entry point to the network.

Yes, I am thinking such a server could be a stand along thing, or part of a BBS since a BBS does have the "stuff". None of this exists outside of my mind currently and may never exist. It's just an idea on my part.

Sure, you can run a point, but there's a lot more complexity there.
And for those of us who want mobile access to existing accounts, the
point paradigm is totally wrong. That would be like logging into
social media and finding all your stateuses and group memberships are different on every device you own!

I am thinking of a simple app for a tablet, phone or other device or PCs designed for FTN messaging. The interface might look like Aftershock but I am thinking of something very simple so folks don't need to learn all the FTN fun and games. Folks might just need to enter their name and the info for a server to connect to.

We would need to design/implement/maintain all that.

You'll notice there is no authentication in the above. We may need that as well for netmail, if we implement that (I think we should but it makes it more complex).

The BBS at least provides something that can keep track of those
variables across multiple devices.

If this was connected to a BBS login of some sort that should be doable.

In the 80's and most of the 90's if you wanted to get online you
got on a BBS but that's not the case anymore. BBSs are among my
favorite things but they don't have the place in the world that
they once did.

I think the idea of apps for a tablet or phone, or other device
is interesting but it's not easy. We'd need a way to serve those
apps also so we'd have to design, implement and maintain that on
top of what we are already doing. We would need to experiment
with all that to find what can work.

You may be going a bit Internet centric with this and overthinking it.

Well, yes.. how were you thinking of doing it? :)

What's wrong with a network where you choose your home base (i.e.
BBS?). With cooperation from BBS authors, you could simplify the
signup process to "username and password", with the rest of the info
being stored in your profile on the device and sent to the BBS during
a registration "handshake". And of course, if you register on your
mobile device, you can simply login later from your PC. :)

Yes, that sounds good. If we can do it and make the user experience easy to get up and running it could work.

Synchronet probably has all the stuff needed to do that on the server side. Of course it needs to be written and supported.. not to mention apps for users.

Ttyl :-),
Al

--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: The Rusty MailBox - Penticton, BC Canada (1:153/757)

On 08-05-20 22:52, Alan Ianson wrote to Tony Langdon <=-

Yes, I am thinking such a server could be a stand along thing, or part
of a BBS since a BBS does have the "stuff". None of this exists outside
of my mind currently and may never exist. It's just an idea on my part.

I figured since the BBS is already there, it _could_ be the home base for such an app, though I don't see a problem with a dedicated server, which would effectively be a BBS without the interactive UI, so QWK or Bluewave are still viable transports. You're simply creating a slimmed down BBS, nothing wrong with that, for people who only want to use mobile apps and offline mail.

I am thinking of a simple app for a tablet, phone or other device or
PCs designed for FTN messaging. The interface might look like
Aftershock but I am thinking of something very simple so folks don't
need to learn all the FTN fun and games. Folks might just need to enter their name and the info for a server to connect to.

I was thinking similar, just that I figured there's potentially servers out there already. :)

We would need to design/implement/maintain all that.

You'll notice there is no authentication in the above. We may need that
as well for netmail, if we implement that (I think we should but it
makes it more complex).

Authentication will be needed, so you can receive not only netmail, but echomail as well.

The BBS at least provides something that can keep track of those
variables across multiple devices.

If this was connected to a BBS login of some sort that should be
doable.

Precisely.

You may be going a bit Internet centric with this and overthinking it.

Well, yes.. how were you thinking of doing it? :)

I was thinking leveraging the existing installed base of BBSs. At least Synchronet, and maybe a MPL for Mystic, or perhaps a MPY might be able to provide some of the server side functionality (mainly initial registration)

What's wrong with a network where you choose your home base (i.e.
BBS?). With cooperation from BBS authors, you could simplify the
signup process to "username and password", with the rest of the info
being stored in your profile on the device and sent to the BBS during
a registration "handshake". And of course, if you register on your
mobile device, you can simply login later from your PC. :)

Yes, that sounds good. If we can do it and make the user experience
easy to get up and running it could work.

My idea was:

Initial registration - in the app, you have your details (Username, real name, birthdate, etc, etc). Some fields would be optional, and sex/gender would be one of those (needs reworking anyway for the 2020s - I don't even bother asking
that on my main BBS). So when you connect to the BBS, you're given an option to register. The registration asks for your username (defaulting to the one in
your app setup), and a password, which it saves upon initial registration.

Once registered, you can then browse messages, to see what might be of interest, "subscribe" to areas (i.e. mark them for QWK download/syncing), and "get mail" or "sync", which basically downloads new messages in your subscribed
areas, plus any netmail. You could have the app instantly upload any replies or work offline.

Synchronet probably has all the stuff needed to do that on the server side. Of course it needs to be written and supported.. not to mention
apps for users.

I suspect what Synchronet doesn't already have could be done in JS fairly easily. :)

There may also be a place for your dedicated server. That would suit sysops who want to support just mobile users and not bother with the UI stuff.


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