The polls have closed in the FTSC Standing Member Election. 17 RCs from 3 Zones cast valid ballots. A total of 3 ballots were rejected -- 2 received after the polls closed and 1 from an ineligible voter.

There were six candidates and the votes are as follows:

----------------------------------------------
| Name | Node nr | Yes| No |
|----------------------|-------------|----|----|
| | | | |
| Carol Shenkenberger | 1:275/100 | 14 | 2 |
| Andrew Leary | 1:320/219 | 15 | |
| mark lewis | 1:3634/12 | 13 | 2 |
| Richard Menedetter | 2:310/31 | 16 | |
| Ozz Nixon | 1:275/362 | 15 | 1 |
| Nick Andre | 1:229/426 | 14 | 2 |
----------------------------------------------

RCs Casting Ballots
-------------------

RC33
RC25
RC17
RC24
RC50
RC29
RC19
RC40
RC14
RC41
RC16
RC31
RC13
RC10
RC20
RC54
RC18

Ballots Rejected/Reason
-----------------------

Ozz Nixon - Not an RC/eligible voter
RC28 - Received after polls closed
RC57 - Received after polls closed

All candidates received approval by a majority of the voters casting ballots, and will therefore be accepted into the FTSC unless something drastic happens during the next week which allows opportunity to contest the votes.

The period for contesting votes ends on Sunday, 10 March 2019 at 20:00 UTC. If no votes are contested, the new members will be installed on Monday, 11 March 2019.

Andrew Leary
FTSC Election Coordinator

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)

The polls have closed in the FTSC Standing Member Election. 17 RCs from
3 Zones cast valid ballots. A total of 3 ballots were rejected -- 2 received after the polls closed and 1 from an ineligible voter.

Meaning an entire zone is missing in action ...

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

Ward Dossche wrote to Andrew Leary:

The polls have closed in the FTSC Standing Member Election. 17 RCs

from

3 Zones cast valid ballots. A total of 3 ballots were rejected -- 2 received after the polls closed and 1 from an ineligible voter.

Meaning an entire zone is missing in action ...

Or at least chose not to participate in the election.


--- MBSE BBS v1.0.7.12 (GNU/Linux-x86_64)
* Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)

Meaning an entire zone is missing in action ...

Or at least chose not to participate in the election.

You are one of the biggest optimists in this hobby ... 8-)

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

Ward Dossche wrote to Andrew Leary <=-

The polls have closed in the FTSC Standing Member Election. 17 RCs from
3 Zones cast valid ballots. A total of 3 ballots were rejected -- 2 received after the polls closed and 1 from an ineligible voter.

Meaning an entire zone is missing in action ...

No, it doesn't mean that at all. The zone is there, they just
succumbed to apathy and did not participate.




... Ignorance can be cured. Stupid is forever.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Meaning an entire zone is missing in action ...

No, it doesn't mean that at all. The zone is there, they just
succumbed to apathy and did not participate.

As your knowledge and understanding re: the functioning of Fidonet's cogwheels approaches zero, I can only confirm my initial statement ... an entire zone is missing in action, not just during this election.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

Meaning an entire zone is missing in action ...

No, it doesn't mean that at all. The zone is there, they just
succumbed to apathy and did not participate.

As your knowledge and understanding re: the functioning of Fidonet's cogwheels
approaches zero, I can only confirm my initial statement ... an entire zone is
missing in action, not just during this election.

Strange... I still connect with 3 solid links in Z4. It is not a huge number of links, but even your own network is extremely small in number these days :)

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
* Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)

Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-

>WD> Meaning an entire zone is missing in action ...

No, it doesn't mean that at all. The zone is there, they just
succumbed to apathy and did not participate.

As your knowledge and understanding re: the functioning of
Fidonet's cogwheels approaches zero, I can only confirm my
initial statement ... an entire zone is missing in action, not
just during this election.

As your credibility approaches zero, I can only confirm my
statement above ... the Zone is there but chooses not to be very
active. Simple fact, easily verified.

Hard to believe an actual ZC acts/speaks this way. Just about
everything you post is in some way nit-picking or negative. I bet
you're a real fun guy at parties, eh?

Please get your act together and act in a manner consistent with
your position.



... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Hi Janis,

I can only confirm my initial statement ... an entire zone is
missing in action, not just during this election.

Strange... I still connect with 3 solid links in Z4. It is not a huge number of links, but even your own network is extremely small in number these days :)

I do not dispute that but you know as well as I do that after Nick Andre has been in office for 8+ months now, ZC4 claims he's sending stuff to ZC1 direct but actually is sending it to you. I tried explaining him in english and spanish there has been a change of ZC but to no avail. I've had help from within the zone and there's still no change. And you know he's totally absent in the ZCC.

As for solid links, you've always had those. But do you have contact? I also have a number of people on autopilot on my system who solidly download whatever, never upload anything, never participate. I've got an RC who only talks via Messenger and anotherone I finally got hold of via LinkedIn. Both link, connect and download daily...

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

Ozz Nixon - Not an RC/eligible voter

Correct

RC28 - Received after polls closed

Correct:

Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2019 21:55:40 +0100

RC57 - Received after polls closed

Not Correct:

Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2019 21:28:23 +1300
Message-ID: <10868$FTSC_PUBLIC@JamNNTPd>
X-JAM-From: Paul Hayton <3:770/100>
X-JAM-To: All




..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Bj”rn!

05 Mar 19 00:20, you wrote to me:

RC57 - Received after polls closed

Not Correct:

Date: Sun, 3 Mar 2019 21:28:23 +1300
Message-ID: <10868$FTSC_PUBLIC@JamNNTPd>
X-JAM-From: Paul Hayton <3:770/100>
X-JAM-To: All

This message was missed, due to the incorrect addressee. If Paul chooses to challenge this ballot's exclusion, I will certainly consider amending the results. However, it will make no difference, as all candidates had well over a majority of ballots cast anyway.

Andrew

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)

However, it will make no difference, as all candidates had well over
a majority of ballots cast anyway.

ACK



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

On 05 Mar 2019 at 04:29a, Andrew Leary pondered and said...

This message was missed, due to the incorrect addressee. If Paul
chooses to challenge this ballot's exclusion, I will certainly consider amending the results. However, it will make no difference, as all candidates had well over a majority of ballots cast anyway.

No challenge from me, it was human error and as you say no impact on results. :)

Best, Paul

--- E:avon@bbs.nz ------ W:bbs.nz ---
--- K:keybase.io/avon --------------

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A43 2019/03/03 (Windows/32)
* Origin: Agency BBS | Dunedin, New Zealand | agency.bbs.nz (3:770/100)

Hello Andrew,

On Monday March 04 2019 03:28, you wrote to All:

Ballots Rejected/Reason
-----------------------

RC28 - Received after polls closed

The period for contesting votes ends on Sunday, 10 March 2019 at 20:00 UTC.

I object against going on record as having submitted a vote after the polls closed. The sysops of R28 decided to not participate in the election. My message was a statement to that effect. It was not a vote. The intent of the statement was to avoid R28 being labelled as a region with no active RC or active sysops.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Hello Andrew,

On Monday March 04 2019 03:28, you wrote to All:

Ballots Rejected/Reason
-----------------------

RC28 - Received after polls closed

The period for contesting votes ends on Sunday, 10 March 2019 at 20:00 UTC.

I object against going on record as having submitted a vote after the polls closed. The sysops of R28 decided to not participate in the election. My message was a statement to that effect. It was not a vote. The intent of the statement was to avoid R28 being labelled as a region with no active RC or active sysops.


Cheers, Michiel
RC28


--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:28/0)

Hello Michiel!

08 Mar 19 00:46, you wrote to Election Coordinator:

I object against going on record as having submitted a vote after the polls closed. The sysops of R28 decided to not participate in the election. My message was a statement to that effect. It was not a
vote. The intent of the statement was to avoid R28 being labelled as a region with no active RC or active sysops.

Your objection is noted. You did not submit a vote; I will note that in the final results posting.

Andrew

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)

Hello Andrew,

On Friday March 08 2019 04:40, you wrote to me:

Your objection is noted. You did not submit a vote; I will note that
in the final results posting.

OK.

So out of 32 listed RCs, 17 casted a valid vote. One vote was too late and 14 RCs did not vote.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

MvdV> Hello Andrew,

MvdV> On Friday March 08 2019 04:40, you wrote to me:

Your objection is noted. You did not submit a vote; I will note that
in the final results posting.

MvdV> OK.

MvdV> So out of 32 listed RCs, 17 casted a valid vote. One vote was too
MvdV> late and 14 RCs did not vote.

Now we can move over to Fidonews and wait for the inevitable arguing about the validity of the election. :)


--- NiKom v2.5.0
* Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (2:201/120.0)

Joacim Melin wrote to Michiel van der Vlist <=-

Your objection is noted. You did not submit a vote; I will note that
in the final results posting.

> MvdV> OK.

> MvdV> So out of 32 listed RCs, 17 casted a valid vote. One
> MvdV> vote was too late and 14 RCs did not vote.

Now we can move over to Fidonews and wait for the inevitable
arguing about the validity of the election. :)

Yep, and ALL the bitching will be from the same 2-3 individuals,
as usual. :(



... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Joacim Melin wrote to Michiel van der Vlist <=-

Your objection is noted. You did not submit a vote; I will note that
in the final results posting.

>> MvdV> OK.

>> MvdV> So out of 32 listed RCs, 17 casted a valid vote. One
>> MvdV> vote was too late and 14 RCs did not vote.

Now we can move over to Fidonews and wait for the inevitable
arguing about the validity of the election. :)

Yep, and ALL the bitching will be from the same 2-3 individuals,
as usual. :(

I'm not sure what these gentlemen actually think they bring to Fidonet except their year long bitch fests about things that no-one else gives a damn about. It's like we where 25000+ nodes again.. except we are not.


--- NiKom v2.5.0
* Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (2:201/120.0)

Hello Joacim,

On Saturday March 09 2019 15:11, you wrote to me:

MvdV>> So out of 32 listed RCs, 17 casted a valid vote. One vote was
MvdV>> too late and 14 RCs did not vote.

Now we can move over to Fidonews and wait for the inevitable arguing
about the validity of the election. :)

I will not contest the validity of the election. But there is a reason R28 decided to not cast a vote. And it is not lazyness, indifference, apathy or inertia...


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Joacim Melin <=-

Now we can move over to Fidonews and wait for the inevitable arguing
about the validity of the election. :)

I will not contest the validity of the election. But there is a
reason R28 decided to not cast a vote. And it is not lazyness, indifference, apathy or inertia...

OK.... would you mind sharing what the reason *WAS*?



... If it walks out of your refrigerator, let it go.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Hello Dan,

Your objection is noted. You did not submit a vote; I will note that AL>>>> in the final results posting.

MvdV>>> OK.

MvdV>>> So out of 32 listed RCs, 17 casted a valid vote. One
MvdV>>> vote was too late and 14 RCs did not vote.

Now we can move over to Fidonews and wait for the inevitable
arguing about the validity of the election. :)

Yep, and ALL the bitching will be from the same 2-3 individuals,
as usual. :(

Sorry, but it is not bitching at all,
It is placing the points on the i from FidoNet.
We are not FydaNet, i.e. saying Yes and am Amen to everything without a note.
^ ^
It has to be correct reported, to avoid discussion later on.

Greetings from Henri.

---
* Origin: Connectivity is the Future; UniCorn BBS 31 26 4425506 (2:280/1208)

Hello Dan,

On Sunday March 10 2019 07:43, you wrote to me:

I will not contest the validity of the election. But there is a
reason R28 decided to not cast a vote. And it is not lazyness,
indifference, apathy or inertia...

OK.... would you mind sharing what the reason *WAS*?

Not until after the final results are published via the official Fidonet channels.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Dan Clough <=-

I will not contest the validity of the election. But there is a
reason R28 decided to not cast a vote. And it is not lazyness,
indifference, apathy or inertia...

OK.... would you mind sharing what the reason *WAS*?

Not until after the final results are published via the official
Fidonet channels.

All right, fair enough.

Cheers!



... Press any key to continue or any other key to quit
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Re: Objection
By: Michiel van der Vlist to Dan Clough on Mon Mar 11 2019 11:31 am

I will not contest the validity of the election. But there is a
reason R28 decided to not cast a vote. And it is not lazyness,
indifference, apathy or inertia...

OK.... would you mind sharing what the reason *WAS*?

Not until after the final results are published via the official Fidonet channels.

OK..... how about now? Thanks!
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Hello Dan,

On Thursday March 21 2019 12:03, you wrote to me:

I will not contest the validity of the election. But there is a
reason R28 decided to not cast a vote. And it is not lazyness,
indifference, apathy or inertia...

OK.... would you mind sharing what the reason *WAS*?

Not until after the final results are published via the official
Fidonet channels.

OK..... how about now? Thanks!

The prime "official Fidonet channel" is Fidonews. I have not seen the results published there...


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Dan Clough <=-

I will not contest the validity of the election. But there is a
reason R28 decided to not cast a vote. And it is not lazyness,
indifference, apathy or inertia...

OK.... would you mind sharing what the reason *WAS*?

Not until after the final results are published via the official
Fidonet channels.

OK..... how about now? Thanks!

The prime "official Fidonet channel" is Fidonews. I have not seen
the results published there...

Really? FidoNews is the "offical" channel for reporting of FTSC
election results? Not the FTSC echo itself, eh?

That seems a little.... strange.

Well, OK. Assuming the results get published in the next FidoNews
(are you listening, Bjorn?), we can hope to hear from you then...

Thanks.


... Can you tell me how to get, how to get to Sesame Street?
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Really? FidoNews is the "offical" channel for reporting of FTSC
election results? Not the FTSC echo itself, eh?

Fidonews is the only time-track throughout Fidonet's history that is searchable.

If it didn't appear in Fidonews, it didn't happen.

Well, OK. Assuming the results get published in the next FidoNews
(are you listening, Bjorn?), we can hope to hear from you then...

The writing of such an article is not Bjorn's job.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

Hello Dan,

On Friday March 22 2019 23:16, you wrote to me:

OK..... how about now? Thanks!

The prime "official Fidonet channel" is Fidonews. I have not
seen the results published there...

Really? FidoNews is the "offical" channel for reporting of FTSC
election results?

Fidonews is the official channel for any Fidonet related announcement. Together with the nodelist, it is the glue that keeps us together.

Not the FTSC echo itself, eh?

Echomail is not covered by P4 according to the powers that be in your neck of the woods.

So... How are you doing with moving forward to IPv6?


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Ward Dossche wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Really? FidoNews is the "offical" channel for reporting of FTSC
election results? Not the FTSC echo itself, eh?

Fidonews is the only time-track throughout Fidonet's history that
is searchable.

Perhaps, but irrelevant to the question that was asked. Where is
it specified that FidoNews is the "official" channel for anything?

If it didn't appear in Fidonews, it didn't happen.

Right.

Well, OK. Assuming the results get published in the next FidoNews
(are you listening, Bjorn?), we can hope to hear from you then...

The writing of such an article is not Bjorn's job.

Yes, you're correct on that.

This little conversation is a PERFECT example of the bullshit that
goes on in FidoNet. The dude who's Region "didn't want to vote"
can't just come out and tell me *WHY*. He has to come up with
some reason to delay it, and then that evolves into this chickshit
"reason". There's always something. Everybody's got a secret.



... All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Dan Clough <=-

OK..... how about now? Thanks!

The prime "official Fidonet channel" is Fidonews. I have not
seen the results published there...

Really? FidoNews is the "offical" channel for reporting of FTSC
election results?

Fidonews is the official channel for any Fidonet related
announcement.

Would you mind telling me where that is specified? Or is that a
secret too?

Not the FTSC echo itself, eh?

Echomail is not covered by P4 according to the powers that be in
your neck of the woods.

I'm not talking about echomail or P4. The simple question is why
did your Region choose not to vote in the FTSC election. The
results have been published by the FTSC administrator, and are
final. There's no reason you can't just tell me why you chose not
to vote. Why do you want to play these silly games?

So... How are you doing with moving forward to IPv6?

I'll answer that when you answer my question, and I'll do it
promptly with no further delaying tactics.



... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

On 2019 Mar 23 09:15:00, you wrote to Ward Dossche:

Fidonews is the only time-track throughout Fidonet's history that
is searchable.

Perhaps, but irrelevant to the question that was asked. Where is
it specified that FidoNews is the "official" channel for anything?

that would be policy... probably they are thinking about section 4.5 but there are other earlier sections that also speak of the fidonews newsletter...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... I can't believe it's not bacon!
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

mark lewis wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Perhaps, but irrelevant to the question that was asked. Where is
it specified that FidoNews is the "official" channel for anything?

that would be policy... probably they are thinking about section
4.5 but there are other earlier sections that also speak of the
fidonews newsletter...

Yes, I see that. FidoNews is mentioned many times as something
which the various *Cs are required to provide/forward. It says
that FidoNews is "an important medium by which FidoNet sysops
communicate with each other". OK, fine. That is all true.

It does *NOT* state that FidoNews is the medium used to promulgate
any election results. In fact, P4 does state, in section 8.2,
that changes to Policy itself are *officially* distributed by
notification in the weekly NodeDiff file.

There is nothing in there about FTSC positions, elections, etc;
and that is expected.

So, can someone tell me why the one RC who went out of his way to
inform everyone that his Region did not want to vote in the FTSC
member election, feels like he has to wait for some "official"
pronouncement of those results before he can reveal the reasons
that he/they didn't want to vote?



... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Hello Ward!

23 Mar 19 09:04, you wrote to Dan Clough:

@MSGID: 2:292/854 0b072316
@REPLY: 792.fido_ftscpubl@1:123/115 20faecc1

Really? FidoNews is the "offical" channel for reporting of FTSC
election results? Not the FTSC echo itself, eh?

Fidonews is the only time-track throughout Fidonet's history that is searchable.

If it didn't appear in Fidonews, it didn't happen.

Well, OK. Assuming the results get published in the next FidoNews
(are you listening, Bjorn?), we can hope to hear from you then...

The writing of such an article is not Bjorn's job.

The article was submitted to Bjorn on March 12th. Unfortunately, it was rejected by the software used to produce the FidoNews, due to some lines that were over 70 characters. The article has been corrected and resubmitted; I expect that it should be published in tomorrow's issue.

Andrew

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)

Hello Dan,

On Saturday March 23 2019 09:21, you wrote to me:

Fidonews is the official channel for any Fidonet related
announcement.

Would you mind telling me where that is specified?

Yes, I mind.

The simple question is why did your Region choose not to vote in the
FTSC election.

[..]

There's no reason you can't just tell me why you chose not to vote.

No reason I can't but several reasons I won't. One of them is that I do not enjoy arguing with you.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Fidonews is the official channel for any Fidonet related
announcement.

Would you mind telling me where that is specified?

Yes, I mind.

Yeah, I didn't think you could. That's because it *ISN'T*.

The simple question is why did your Region choose not to vote in the
FTSC election.

[..]

There's no reason you can't just tell me why you chose not to vote.

No reason I can't but several reasons I won't. One of them is
that I do not enjoy arguing with you.

I don't enjoy arguing with you, either.

I see in another post that the election results should be in the
upcoming FidoNews, so perhaps you can tell us why after you see
that, as you said you would.



... So easy, a child could do it. Child sold separately.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

so perhaps you can tell us why after you see
that, as you said you would.

He will. In the official channel.



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Dan,

On Sunday March 24 2019 08:43, you wrote to me:

Fidonews is the official channel for any Fidonet related
announcement.

Would you mind telling me where that is specified?

Yes, I mind.

Yeah, I didn't think you could. That's because it *ISN'T*.

You saying it isn't so does not make it so and I did not say I could not. I just won't.

There's no reason you can't just tell me why you chose not to
vote.

No reason I can't but several reasons I won't. One of them is
that I do not enjoy arguing with you.

I don't enjoy arguing with you, either.

Then why are you?

I see in another post that the election results should be in the
upcoming FidoNews, so perhaps you can tell us why after you see
that, as you said you would.

I didn't say that.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20130111
* Origin: Michiel's laptop (2:280/5555.1)

Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Dan Clough <=-

I see in another post that the election results should be in the
upcoming FidoNews, so perhaps you can tell us why after you see
that, as you said you would.

I didn't say that.

When I asked you when you would share the reason for not voting,
you said (paraphrasing from memory): "Not until after the results
are released in official channels". That certainly implies that
you *would* share after the official release.

Are you saying now that you are not going to tell the reason?


... Press any key to continue or any other key to quit
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Hello Dan,

On Sunday March 24 2019 16:27, you wrote to me:

Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Dan Clough <=-

I didn't say that.

When I asked you when you would share the reason for not voting,
you said (paraphrasing from memory): "Not until after the results
are released in official channels". That certainly implies that
you *would* share after the official release.

No, it does not imply that. Your logic is flawed.

(not until after event X) != (after event X)

Are you saying now that you are not going to tell the reason?

No, I am not saying that. What I am saying is that I did not say when.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Are you saying now that you are not going to tell the reason?

No, I am not saying that. What I am saying is that I did not say
when.

Yeah, OK. Just read your reason in the new FidoNews.

Seems to me that not voting doesn't accomplish anything, save
perhaps making you feel better or that you "took a stand".

If you really were not in favor of some/all of the candidates,
wouldn't a "NO" vote have sent a better message, and perhaps had
an influence on the outcome?

Is it allowable for somebody (you) to actively "campaign" against
somebody? Like do some public advertisements stating why you feel
they should not be elected?

Certainly some private Netmails to other RCs could have been sent,
right?

Perhaps you didn't want others to know that you were against
particular candidates?

Anyway... it's over until the next election. Thanks for at least
writing up the reason for publication.



... Forbidden fruit is responsible for many a bad jam.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Hello Dan,

On Sunday March 24 2019 21:26, you wrote to me:

If you really were not in favor of some/all of the candidates,
wouldn't a "NO" vote have sent a better message, and perhaps had
an influence on the outcome?

That and other things have been tried over the last decade. No result.

If nothing works, the only thing left is to just walk away from the game. That way one at least stops wasting one's most precious commodity: time.

So... How are you doing with moving forward to IPv6?

I'll answer that when you answer my question, and I'll do it promptly
with no further delaying tactics.

So?


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Dan Clough <=-

So... How are you doing with moving forward to IPv6?

I'll answer that when you answer my question, and I'll do it promptly
with no further delaying tactics.

So?

I'm not doing well with that at all. In fact I have done nothing
with it.

It's a subject that I know only the basics about, such as why it
is needed. Not sure if my options depend on what my internet
service provider offers, or what. I'll look into it, and am all
ears if you have some advice/info to offer.



... Error - Operator out of memory!
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Hi Dan!

25 Mar 2019 08:03, from Dan Clough -> Michiel van der Vlist:

It's a subject that I know only the basics about, such as why it
is needed. Not sure if my options depend on what my internet
service provider offers, or what. I'll look into it, and am all
ears if you have some advice/info to offer.

You either have native support for it from your ISP (good!).
If not you can use a tunnel (not so good ;).

You can get a free tunnel from https://ipv6.he.net/

CU, Ricsi

... I avoid all sports which cannot be played while holding a hot dog.
--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: Short Books: The software engineer's guide to fashion. (2:310/31)

Hello Dan,

On Monday March 25 2019 08:03, you wrote to me:

I'm not doing well with that at all. In fact I have done nothing
with it.

So much for "moving forward"...

It's a subject that I know only the basics about, such as why it
is needed. Not sure if my options depend on what my internet
service provider offers, or what. I'll look into it, and am all
ears if you have some advice/info to offer.

The first step would be to join us in the IPv6 echo. That is where the expertise is. It is available at your uplink.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Michiel,

I read your "reasoning" in today's FidoNews. Personally, I have a lot of respect for a whole Region that can come together and work as one... so Kudos!

Now, as a n00b to the polical aspects of Fidonet, I do ponder when does the slate get cleared and people move forward? To be honest, I am 52 and until the recent FTSC election I have had no experience in "first hand involvement" in an election process.

I was raised in Germany (Bitburg in the house!), I am an American Citizen, however, I do not participate in American voting (for my own reasons). However, I have owned and operated businesses with a few hundred employees - and I know getting 90% or more of the people inspired and happy is a challenge.

This hobby is *very* dear to me - I am motivated by the nostalgic feeling I experience everytime there is a new message, user waiting verification, etc. I still get excited. I started rewriting all of my previous efforts from scratch to hopefully preserve that great feeling for others.

I joined in Fido as a way to see who is doing what in the BBS community. From day one (v2.0 of BBSing for me) Jan-1-2017, I have ran my own code where possible. I did not join to perpetuate a historic wrong doing (if that is the case, only have your side of the story, which I accept as there was some type of wrong doing to Mr. Felten). And I know the n00b-ness will wear off, however, I would hope it goes away because it has been an enjoyable hobby -- not that the constant fighting has pushed me away [honestly was damn close -- and I know in some of your eyes and experience, I have not experienced anything yet].

Anyway, I respect R28's unity (again Kudos), and look forward to learning more, probably stepping on many toes along the way, however, that is how I learn. I like your last statement "no longer playing this silly game"...

O.


--
.. Ozz Nixon
... Author ExchangeBBS (suite)
.... Since 1983 BBS Developer

--- FMail-W32 2.0.1.4
* Origin: ExchangeBBS WHQ (1:275/362.0)

Hi Dan!

25 Mar 2019 08:03, from Dan Clough -> Michiel van der Vlist:

It's a subject that I know only the basics about, such as why it
is needed. Not sure if my options depend on what my internet
service provider offers, or what. I'll look into it, and am all
ears if you have some advice/info to offer.

You either have native support for it from your ISP (good!).
If not you can use a tunnel (not so good ;).

You can get a free tunnel from https://ipv6.he.net/

CU, Ricsi

Where do I find the offer for a free tunnel? I can't get IPv6 at home yet.


--- NiKom v2.5.0
* Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (2:201/120.0)

You can get a free tunnel from https://ipv6.he.net/

CU, Ricsi

Where do I find the offer for a free tunnel?

https://tunnelbroker.net/

'Tommi

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.
* Origin: smapinntpd/linux @ nntps://news.fidonet.fi (2:221/1)

On 25 Mar 19 16:09:02, Michiel Van Der Vlist said the following to Dan Clough:

I'm not doing well with that at all. In fact I have done nothing
with it.

So much for "moving forward"...

Wow, truly first-world problems...

It would be nice if you would stop acting like such an insufferable jackass over your constant obsession with IPV6. Its just an Internet thing. Its not the end of the world. The sun rises and sets whether Dan has IPV6 or not.

Someone with your superior high level of intelligence should realise that there are parts of the world where the ISP's do not see it as a big priority
to "move forward" and neither the customers or your fellow Fidonetters can do anything about it.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

You can get a free tunnel from https://ipv6.he.net/ >>
CU, Ricsi

Where do I find the offer for a free tunnel?

https://tunnelbroker.net/

'Tommi

Thanks buddy.


--- NiKom v2.5.0
* Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (2:201/120.0)

Hi Joacim!

25 Mar 2019 18:17, from Joacim Melin -> Richard Menedetter:

You either have native support for it from your ISP (good!).
If not you can use a tunnel (not so good ;).
You can get a free tunnel from https://ipv6.he.net/

Where do I find the offer for a free tunnel?
I can't get IPv6 at home yet.

At the he.net address I added in my first mail ;))

I am using it too, as my ISP offers either DS-Lite or public IPv4.
As i do not want to give up my public IPv4 address I use a he.net tunnel.

CU, Ricsi

... So drunk I held onto the lawn to keep from falling off the earth.
--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: Be as good at receiving as you are at giving. (2:310/31)

Hello Nick,

On Monday March 25 2019 14:20, you wrote to me:

@MSGID: 1:229/426 14ED0388

No reply kludge...

It would be nice if you would stop acting like such an insufferable jackass over your constant obsession with IPV6.

[..]

--- Renegade vY2Ka2

No "next key" in Renegade?


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Richard Menedetter wrote to Dan Clough <=-

It's a subject that I know only the basics about, such as why it
is needed. Not sure if my options depend on what my internet
service provider offers, or what. I'll look into it, and am all
ears if you have some advice/info to offer.

You either have native support for it from your ISP (good!).
If not you can use a tunnel (not so good ;).

You can get a free tunnel from https://ipv6.he.net/

Thank you, Richard, for that info! I'll be checking things out,
appreciate the reply.



... Toto, I don't think we're in DOS any more...
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

Michiel van der Vlist wrote to Dan Clough <=-

I'm not doing well with that at all. In fact I have done nothing
with it.

So much for "moving forward"...

Well, to be fair, I have never said a single word about "moving
forward" with IPv6. I don't think the subject is extrememly
relevant to the previous discussions in here about moving Fido
forward. It's not IPv4 which is hindering FidoNet in any way.

It's a subject that I know only the basics about, such as why it
is needed. Not sure if my options depend on what my internet
service provider offers, or what. I'll look into it, and am all
ears if you have some advice/info to offer.

The first step would be to join us in the IPv6 echo. That is
where the expertise is. It is available at your uplink.

I'll inquire about it. Thanks.



... Beware of programmers who carry screwdrivers.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

On 26 Mar 19 00:15:30, Michiel Van Der Vlist said the following to Nick Andre:

@MSGID: 1:229/426 14ED0388

No reply kludge...

You're more than welcome to fix it; Renegade is open-source. Already told you I don't have the time. Complaints about the Reply kludge, to me is the same
as the Spelling/Grammar/Nodelist Police or lacking a precious IPV6 address.

It would be nice if you would stop acting like such an insufferable jackass over your constant obsession with IPV6.

No "next key" in Renegade?

Yeah but sometimes its more fun hitting Reply. I need focus away from the immediate sensitivity the follows shaving my backside.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

I need focus away from the
immediate sensitivity the follows shaving my backside.

You must have long arms.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

I need focus away from the
immediate sensitivity the follows shaving my backside.

You must have long arms.

Or an assistant?

I barely can find the time to shave my face -- why anyone would spend his time shaving his backside is beyond me.




..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

I barely can find the time to shave my face -- why anyone would spend
his time shaving his backside is beyond me.

Real men have beards ... I never understood the concept of shaving ...

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

Real men have beards ... I never understood the concept of shaving ...

In the wintertime I keep mine. To us used to -20C and wind chill of -30C and below, it works very well as insulation.

In the summertime however I respect the wishes of previously my beloved Anita and now still my children and grandchildren, who prefer to see what I really look like.



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Dan,

On Monday March 25 2019 21:48, you wrote to me:

So much for "moving forward"...

Well, to be fair, I have never said a single word about "moving
forward" with IPv6.

True, you never specifically mentioned IPv6, but you were /very/ vocal about "moving forward" in general. From FTA-1000.002, §1:

2. Encouraging new technologies in Fidonet software development.

Promoting IPv6 is in line with that.

I don't think the subject is extrememly relevant to the previous discussions in here about moving Fido forward.

Fidonet is irrelevant in the greater scheme of things. If the plug on Fidonet were pulled tonight, the sun would still rise next morning. Relevancy is irrelevant. This is a hobby. A hobby is about doing things that one enjoys, not about things relevant.

It's not IPv4 which is hindering FidoNet in any way.

The exhaustion of the IPv4 address pool is already affecting those running servers in some parts of the world. Some ISPs in Europe have started issuing a DS-Lite connection to new customers. That means they have no public IPv4 address. Fidonet involves running servers and so it will be a matter of time before it affects Fidonet.

I have been promoting IPv6 in Fidonet for about a decade now. Not because I felt a compelling need, but because I found it interesting and I enjoyed exploring the technology. With moderate success. Considering that there is a lot of inertia in Fidonet, 77 active nodes supporting IPv6 is not overwhelming, but it is not bad either.

You want Fidonet to move forward. You run into a lot of opposition. Promoting Ipv6 is my hobby horse. That is also moving forward. We have that in common. Where IPv6 differs from what you have addressed so far is that moving your system towards IPv6 can be done without any cooperation or even against the opposition of the powers that be. You do not need the fiat of your NC, RC or ZC. Or that of the FTSC, the NAB, the Fidonews editor or whoever has a say in whatever in Fidonet. All that is needed to make this step forward is that you make some changes to your own system. The only thing in Fidonet, that you and only you are Lord and Master of. Look at it from a pragmatic POV. If you want to move forward, this is what you can do tomorow.

The first step would be to join us in the IPv6 echo. That is
where the expertise is. It is available at your uplink.

I'll inquire about it. Thanks.

See you there...

Cheers, Michiel

---
* Origin: he.net certified sage (2:280/5555)

Hi Dan!

25 Mar 2019 21:44, from Dan Clough -> Richard Menedetter:

You can get a free tunnel from https://ipv6.he.net/

Thank you, Richard, for that info! I'll be checking things out, appreciate the reply.

Tommi sent the direct link:
https://tunnelbroker.net/

There should be a link from ipv6.he.net to tunnelbroker ... but it is easier to directly go to tb.net ;)

CU, Ricsi

... If you stand close enough to him, you can hear the ocean!
--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: A phaser is the universal communicator. - Worf (2:310/31)

Good ${greeting_time}, Ward!

26 Mar 2019 10:01:08, you wrote to Bj”rn Felten:

I barely can find the time to shave my face -- why anyone would
spend his time shaving his backside is beyond me.

Real men have beards ... I never understood the concept of shaving ...

+1


--
Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

... GPG: 8832FE9FA791F7968AC96E4E909DAC45EF3B1FA8 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net
--- /bin/vi
* Origin: http://openwall.com/Owl (2:5020/545)

On 2019 Mar 26 09:51:14, you wrote to Ward Dossche:

I barely can find the time to shave my face -- why anyone would spend
his time shaving his backside is beyond me.

i hear it is less painful than waxing... less costly, too -=B-)

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... We had a quicksand box. I was an only child...eventually.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Hello Ward.

I need focus away from the
immediate sensitivity the follows shaving my backside.

You must have long arms.

A company now sells "Self Help Toilet Aids" which can assist
people with such a function. Although I haven't heard of
someone using a shaver. :-)


Jeff

--- GoldED+/W32-MINGW 1.1.5-b20070503
* Origin: Region 14 IP Server - ftn.region14.org (1:14/5)

I'd like to ask a question, without any preconceived opinions or otherwise: move Fidonet forward... where? I mean, the network as such isn't exactly growing, the technology is more or less based on the same stuff as 10-20 years ago (which is fine by me) if you don't include Binkd as one example, the arguing and the politics are still the same as always.

I say Fidonet isn't going anywhere. it will remain the same until the last person leaving shuts off the light. Not to say that things can't *improve*, such as removing certain people in power who abuse that power or maybe merge all zones into one since it's pretty fucking silly to have all these zones, networks and whatnot as if Fidonet will suddenly grow to 20000 BBS:es again. If Fidonet is to stand a fighting chance to survive it needs to be a friendlier place, a more accessible place. Have a look at how easy you can join FSXNet, how welcoming that network is and how friendly the atmosphere there are... and compare it to this network who yells to every newcomer to get off it's lawn.

So maybe I failed to not have opinions but I care deeply about this stuff.

And no - I will not discuss this in Fidonews, which is the dung heap of Fidonet.


--- NiKom v2.5.0
* Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (2:201/120.0)

On 26 Mar 19 19:38:07, Joacim Melin said the following to Michiel Van Der Vlist

Joacim,

I say Fidonet isn't going anywhere. it will remain the same until the last person leaving shuts off the light. Not to say that things can't

*improve*,

such as removing certain people in power who abuse that power or maybe

merg

all zones into one since it's pretty fucking silly to have all these

zones,

networks and whatnot as if Fidonet will suddenly grow to 20000 BBS:es

again

The point you and others fail to realise is that having one-zone will not magically transform Fido into some wonderful friendly utopia... Othernets work good because of content, not because they are one zone.

Please cite for me "people in power who abuse that power"... and be specific.

There are no more zone-wars, no more my zone is better than yours, the Nab is largely irrelevant now thanks to the FidoWeb.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Nick Andre wrote to Michiel Van Der Vlist <=-

Complaints about the Reply kludge, to
me is the same as the Spelling/Grammar/Nodelist Police or lacking a precious IPV6 address.

You know, you're not allowed to question Fidolords though I am a grammar
nazi.

Yeah but sometimes its more fun hitting Reply. I need focus away from
the immediate sensitivity the follows shaving my backside.

Perhaps some people are just pimples on the ass of humanity.

Later,
Sean

___ MultiMail/Win v0.51

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Outpost BBS - bbs.outpostbbs.net (1:18/200)

Ward Dossche wrote to Nick Andre <=-

You must have long arms.

Worse yet, a hairy ass.

Later,
Sean

___ MultiMail/Win v0.51

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Outpost BBS - bbs.outpostbbs.net (1:18/200)

Bjorn Felten wrote to Ward Dossche <=-

Off-topic here, but for some reason, your origin line is being split
apart by something. I'm seeing it as this:

-+- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE;
rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125

Just wanted to let you know.

Later,
Sean

___ MultiMail/Win v0.51

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Outpost BBS - bbs.outpostbbs.net (1:18/200)

Ward Dossche wrote to Bjorn Felten <=-

Real men have beards ... I never understood the concept of shaving ...

I can't grow a beard. I can grow a moustache and some facial hair
enough to rock a Fu Manchu but I can't grow any hair on the rest of my
jaws or cheeks. So I've remained clean shaven since I joined the Army
in 1995. My hair is very slow-growing so I can shave once or twice a
week and get away with that.

Later,
Sean

___ MultiMail/Win v0.51

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Outpost BBS - bbs.outpostbbs.net (1:18/200)

mark lewis wrote to Bjorn Felten <=-

i hear it is less painful than waxing... less costly, too -=B-)

Nick's Brazilian Ass Waxing?

Later,
Sean

___ MultiMail/Win v0.51

--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Outpost BBS - bbs.outpostbbs.net (1:18/200)

+1

--- FMail-W32 2.0.1.4
* Origin: Modern Pascal, LLC. (1:275/362.0)

On 2019 Mar 26 16:10:14, you wrote to Bj”rn Felten:

Off-topic here, but for some reason, your origin line is being split
apart by something. I'm seeing it as this:

-+- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE;
rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125

Just wanted to let you know.

that looks like a tear line and it is 79 or 80 characters long counting the three dashes and not counting the line ending... that's at least one reason it may be being wordwrapped...

FWIW: it looks ok over here but my terminal is 125x54 at this time...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... Real Men need sex; it's essential to our health.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

On 2019 Mar 26 16:13:18, you wrote to me:

i hear it is less painful than waxing... less costly, too -=B-)

Nick's Brazilian Ass Waxing?

maybe so! i dunno but it is funny :)

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... It's amazing what you can do with a little apple juice.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Hey Michiel!

2. Encouraging new technologies in Fidonet software development.
Promoting IPv6 is in line with that.

Al draagt een aap een gouden ring, het is en blijft een lelijk ding.

What do the ipv6 gurus think about your obsolete datetime stamp and your corrupted TZUTC kludge dealie? I am willing to bet they are both verboden.
;-)

Life is good,
Maurice

--- BBBS/Li6 v4.10 Toy-4
* Origin: Prism bbs (1:261/38)

On 2019-03-26 12:30:46 +0000, Michiel van der Vlist -> Dan Clough said:

I have been promoting IPv6 in Fidonet for about a decade now. Not
because I felt a compelling need, but because I found it interesting
and I enjoyed exploring the technology. With moderate success.
Considering that there is a lot of inertia in Fidonet, 77 active nodes supporting IPv6 is not overwhelming, but it is not bad either.

I updated my AAAA records for exchangeBBS... but, I do not have an IPv6 enabled VPS environment...

:-)

--
.. Ozz Nixon
... Author ExchangeBBS (suite)
.... Since 1983 BBS Developer

--- FMail-W32 2.0.1.4
* Origin: ExchangeBBS WHQ (1:275/362.0)

On 2019-03-26 11:14:36 +0000, Richard Menedetter -> Dan Clough said:

Hi Dan!

25 Mar 2019 21:44, from Dan Clough -> Richard Menedetter:

RM>> You can get a free tunnel from https://ipv6.he.net/

Thanks, implemented... as far as I could. Waiting on a support call of why I cannot enable IPv6 in the environment they provide.


--
.. Ozz Nixon
... Author ExchangeBBS (suite)
.... Since 1983 BBS Developer

--- FMail-W32 2.0.1.4
* Origin: ExchangeBBS WHQ (1:275/362.0)

Richard Menedetter wrote to Dan Clough <=-

Tommi sent the direct link:
https://tunnelbroker.net/

There should be a link from ipv6.he.net to tunnelbroker ... but
it is easier to directly go to tb.net ;)

Thanks.



... Windows 3.1 - From the people who brought you EDLIN.
=== MultiMail/Linux v0.51
--- SBBSecho 3.07-Linux
* Origin: Palantir * palantirbbs.ddns.net * Pensacola, FL * (1:123/115)

You know, you're not allowed to question Fidolords though I am a grammar nazi.

That should be "Nazi" ...
"
\%/@rd


{I'm sorry Sean, I didm't do it, it was my other me ... 8-) }

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

Joacim,

"certain people in power who abuse that power" ...

Is that hypothetically speaking? Because if it isn't I would like you to expand a bit on this. Like ... names perhaps ?

Take care,

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

In the summertime however I respect the wishes of previously my
beloved Anita and now still my children and grandchildren, who prefer to see what I really look like.

They all must be alcoholics to appreciate such a sight...

:-)

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

Joacim,

"certain people in power who abuse that power" ...

Is that hypothetically speaking? Because if it isn't I would like you
to expand a bit on this. Like ... names perhaps ?

Take care,

I'm sure you would but I've had my share of harassment and threats via netmail this year and I'm considering dropping Fidonet entirely to be honest, including scrapping www.fidonet.io which started the harassments in the first place.

I can say this much: there are a lot of rules in Fidonet, some actually written down and others seems to be invented by moderators, RC, NC or whatever. There as been a more or less ongoing argument about this for as long as I can remember and the minute someone, me or someone else, suggests a change they are basically idiots and should either shut up or go away. Or both.

Fidonet is not a very welcoming environment, and it is mostly not run by very welcoming, friendly people. It is, as it stands now, not designed to be easy to join and easy to get going with. There are *A LOT* of friendly sysops and others (Hi Tommi!) who will gladly help you with whatever you are trying to get to work but once you start to rub certain people the wrong way you become a target of harassment.

I'm tired of this. To quote a person from the BBS documentary whos wife left him because he was on the computer all the time: "This was supposed to be a hobby, it was supposed to be fun.". Fidonet is not fun.



--- NiKom v2.5.0
* Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (2:201/120.0)

Hello Ozz,

On Tuesday March 26 2019 18:48, you wrote to me:

I updated my AAAA records for exchangeBBS... but, I do not have an
IPv6 enabled VPS environment...

<sigh> That's mounting the horse behind the cart. :(

D:\FIDO6\BINKD>ping exchangebbs.com

Ping exchangebbs.com [2001:470:1f18:12d::2] mit 32 Bytes Daten:

Zeitüberschreitung der Anforderung.
Zeitüberschreitung der Anforderung.
Zeitüberschreitung der Anforderung.
Zeitüberschreitung der Anforderung.

Ping-Statistik für 2001:470:1f18:12d::2:
Pakete: Gesendet = 4, Empfangen = 0, Verloren = 4 (100% Verlust),


Advertising IPv6 connectivity when you do not actually have it, is BAD. Properly configured clients will first try IPv6 and if that does not result in a connect, they will try IPv4 after some time. For binkp connects this is just mildly annoying, the Fidonet robots are very patient. But humans are not. Your BBS users will get very annoyed having to wait for the fall back to IPv4.

D:\FIDO\NODELIST>ping 2001:470:1f18:12d::1

Ping wird ausgeführt für 2001:470:1f18:12d::1 mit 32 Bytes Daten:

Antwort von 2001:470:1f18:12d::1: Zeit=146ms
Antwort von 2001:470:1f18:12d::1: Zeit=142ms
Antwort von 2001:470:1f18:12d::1: Zeit=140ms
Antwort von 2001:470:1f18:12d::1: Zeit=139ms

Ping-Statistik für 2001:470:1f18:12d::1:
Pakete: Gesendet = 4, Empfangen = 4, Verloren = 0 (0% Verlust),
Ca. Zeitangaben in Millisek.:
Minimum = 139ms, Maximum = 146ms, Mittelwert = 141ms

The tunnel starting point pings, you tunnel end point does not. The tunnel is not properly configured.


Cheers, Michiel

--- GoldED+/W32-MSVC 1.1.5-b20170303
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

Hello Joacim,

On Tuesday March 26 2019 19:38, you wrote to me:

I'd like to ask a question, without any preconceived opinions or otherwise: move Fidonet forward... where?

Why do you think I have the answer? It is not me that insists on radical changes.

I mean, the network as such isn't exactly growing,

And neither is the local fish club, the amateur stage club and the HAM community. Things come and go.

the technology is more or less based on the same stuff as 10-20 years
ago (which is fine by me)

I would not mind if those proudly advertising that they still use 25+ year old stuff would change their mind. I would not mind a 32 bits version of Allfix. I would not mind some changes to Golded that make it easier to write Cyrillics. And I would like to see more IPv6 capable nodes. Other than that... Most is fine as it is...

the arguing and the politics are still the same as always.

It was pretty quit in here until a couple of returnees came barging in demanding change...

I say Fidonet isn't going anywhere. it will remain the same until the
last person leaving shuts off the light.

That is what happens when old people run an antiquated show. I have no problem with it.

Not to say that things can't *improve*, such as removing certain
people in power who abuse that power

Who will decide who may stay and who has to go? The inquisition? And then? Hire an elimination squad?

or maybe merge all zones into one since it's pretty fucking
silly to have all these zones,

You think you are the first with that idea? Go find my Fidonews articles. I wrote two articles about removing a level of hierarchy. Too lazy to look it up for you.

networks and whatnot as if Fidonet will suddenly grow to 20000 BBS:es again. If Fidonet is to stand a fighting chance to survive it needs
to be a friendlier place, a more accessible place. Have a look at how
easy you can join FSXNet, how welcoming that network is and how
friendly the atmosphere there are...

If FSXnet is so great, why are you here?

and compare it to this network who yells to every newcomer to get off
it's lawn.

You come storming in out of nowhere and DEMAND that we old farts who have been here for over a quarter of a century CHANGE so that Fidonet becomes an alternet for FSXnet? And you are surprised that we are not all that enthousiastic? How about storming into the Den of a Harley club and demand that they stop drinking beer, replace the bikes by famlily cars and start sipping wine...

So maybe I failed to not have opinions but I care deeply about this
stuff.

And no - I will not discuss this in Fidonews, which is the dung heap
of Fidonet.

I am not going to continue to discuss it here, it is not a matter that desires interaction between the Fidonet community and the FTSC.


Cheers, Michiel

--- Fmail, Binkd, Golded
* Origin: http://www.vlist.org (2:280/5555)

You're right, Michiel. I'll go somewhere else. FSXnet is nice, welcoming and not hostile. And who am to think I can just appear out of nowhere after years being a member and try to help and move things forward, being how the old guard seem to be doing such a nice job with that?

Just make sure to turn out the light after the last BBS leaves. Probably won't be long now...

Goodbye.


--- NiKom v2.5.0
* Origin: Delta City (deltacity.se, Vallentuna, Sweden) (2:201/120.0)

Hej Joacim!

Det viktigaste är inte att vinna, utan att kämpa väl.

Livet är gott,
Maurice

... Gråt inte för mig jag har vi.
--- GNU bash, version 5.0.3(1)-release (aarch64-raspi3b+-linux-gnu)
* Origin: Little Mikey's EuroPoint - Ladysmith BC, Canada (2:280/464.113)

Hello Ward,

I barely can find the time to shave my face -- why anyone would spend
his time shaving his backside is beyond me.

Real men have beards ...

Yes.

I never understood the concept of shaving ...

It is not only time consuming, but also painfull to many people.

For the same reason I do not understand the concept of wearing ties.
It is proven that kill's men.
I was allways hating wearing ties from the beginning when I was a child.

So at FidoNet meetings I donot even wear a tie either,
to stay on topic here ;-).

Henri.

---
* Origin: Connectivity is the Future; UniCorn BBS 31 26 4425506 (2:280/1208)

Hi Michiel!

28 Mar 2019 00:45, from Michiel van der Vlist -> Joacim Melin:

If FSXnet is so great, why are you here?

First ... it is not either or.
You can do both.
And sadly I am sure that you managed to tip the balance (in the wrong direction).

You come storming in out of nowhere and DEMAND that we old farts who
have been here for over a quarter of a century CHANGE so that Fidonet becomes an alternet for FSXnet?

Basically transforming a bit to a more inclusive place would be a good thing. Minus the obsessive focus on a buggy piece of BBS software and the missing atmosphere of constructive debate there. (Something that is much too strong here in Fidonet [minus the constructive part].)

Just my 2 cents.

CU, Ricsi

... Some thoughts are best guillotined before actions result!
--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: Humor is the shock absorber of life. (2:310/31)

Hi Ozz!

26 Mar 2019 18:48, from Ozz Nixon -> Michiel van der Vlist:

I updated my AAAA records for exchangeBBS...
but, I do not have an IPv6 enabled VPS environment...

??? I do not understand.
VPS as in virtual private server?
And if it is not IPv6 enabled why did you add a AAAA record??
It is utterly pointless and misleading.

fido@vserv:~$ host exchangebbs.com
exchangebbs.com has address 50.63.13.245
exchangebbs.com has IPv6 address 2001:470:1f18:12d::2
exchangebbs.com mail is handled by 0 mail.exchangebbs.com.
fido@vserv:~$ ping6 -c 1 2001:470:1f18:12d::2
PING 2001:470:1f18:12d::2(2001:470:1f18:12d::2) 56 data bytes

-+- 2001:470:1f18:12d::2 ping statistics ---
1 packets transmitted, 0 received, 100% packet loss, time 0ms

fido@vserv:~$ nmap -6 2001:470:1f18:12d::2 -Pn

Starting Nmap 6.47 ( http://nmap.org ) at 2019-04-07 12:49 CEST
Nmap scan report for tunnel528378-pt.tunnel.tserv1.phx2.ipv6.he.net (2001:470:1f18:12d::2)
Host is up (0.14s latency).
Not shown: 993 filtered ports
PORT STATE SERVICE
25/tcp closed smtp
6666/tcp closed irc
6667/tcp closed irc
6668/tcp closed irc
6669/tcp closed irc
7000/tcp closed afs3-fileserver
9999/tcp closed abyss

Nmap done: 1 IP address (1 host up) scanned in 13.52 seconds

CU, Ricsi

... Does history record any case in which the majority was right? -Heinlein
--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: Santa's Rules #16: Never feed your reindeer chili! (2:310/31)

Hi Ozz!

26 Mar 2019 18:50, from Ozz Nixon -> Richard Menedetter:

RM>> You can get a free tunnel from https://ipv6.he.net/

Thanks, implemented... as far as I could. Waiting on a support call of
why I cannot enable IPv6 in the environment they provide.

??? again
Either you get native support from your provider.
Or _YOU_ implement a tunnel yourself.

For the second case you do not need a "support call".
For the first case you do not need a tunnel.

So I fear that you misunderstood something very throughly!

CU, Ricsi

... May contain information unsuitable for persons with no sense of humour.
--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: Lawyers could be an important source of protein. (2:310/31)

... Minus the obsessive focus on a buggy piece of BBS software ...

Whichone might that be ?

Ward
--- AfterShock/Android 1.6.8
* Origin: Baby-Glacier (2:292/854.1)

Hi Ward!

07 Apr 2019 13:50, from Ward Dossche -> Richard Menedetter:

Minus the obsessive focus on a buggy piece of BBS software ...

Whichone might that be ?

I give you a hint ...
The creator of Fsxnet was asking for hints regarding a bug of said BBS software regarding SEEN-BYs.

CU, Ricsi

... What is life, except excuse for death, or death but an escape from life. --- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: The mailman bringeth ... The trashmen taketh away! (2:310/31)

Good ${greeting_time}, Richard!

07 Apr 2019 12:50:14, you wrote to Ozz Nixon:

I updated my AAAA records for exchangeBBS...
but, I do not have an IPv6 enabled VPS environment...

??? I do not understand.
VPS as in virtual private server?

VPS stands for Virtual Private Space. That means containers like OpenVZ (mainstream Linux kernel has parts of it as control groups and namespaces).

When you need something resembling a server, that normally would be VDS - Virtual Dedicated Server, based on a hypervisor and thus capable of running almost any OS.

In order to have IPv6 in VPS, the host system must support it.
In order to have IPv6 in VDS, having a bridged interface is enough.


--
Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

... GPG: 8832FE9FA791F7968AC96E4E909DAC45EF3B1FA8 @ hkp://keys.gnupg.net
--- /bin/vi
* Origin: http://openwall.com/Owl (2:5020/545)

Re: Objection
By: Richard Menedetter to Ozz Nixon on Sun Apr 07 2019 12:53 pm

For the second case you do not need a "support call".
For the first case you do not need a tunnel.

My challenge is I implemented the "tunnel" without success. :-( This VPS is on GoDaddy's network - so, I may not be able to get the tunnel 100% up - as GD does a lot of "security" tweaks as they feel fit. :-(

O.
--- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
* Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)