2022 FTSC election, call for nominations
========================================


An election for FTSC standing members starts on Sunday, 30th of
January 2022 at 20:00 UTC.

As per FTA-1000.002 the number of FTSC members should be no less than
7 and no more than 30. Presently there are 8 FTSC members; 1 of those
have terms expiring. That leaves room for a maximum of 30-(8-1)=23
members to be elected.

From FTA-1001.007

3.2 FTSC Standing Members
-------------------------

FTSC members are appointed for a two year renewable term. [50 % of
appointments on initial formation of the FTSC shall be for a 3 year
renewable term, to ensure continuity of the Committee on expiry of
the terms.]

To be selected as a FTSC member, an individual must be a Fidonet
node, and should be actively involved in Fidonet. Examples include
having put out a Fidonet-related product or having updated a product
in the preceding two years, or having experience as a Coordinator,
Echomail Coordinator or mail or file Hub.

Standing members may be nominated Fidonet-wide by all of the
following methods:

1. Any RC.
2. A nominating committee established for the purpose by the FTSC.
3. A nominating committee established for the purpose by the ZCC.

A nominating committee may not consist of any current member or
officer of the FTSC.

Standing members are appointed on the basis of a vote by all RCs
who are nodelisted as holding those positions at the time the
nominations are published. A successful candidate must receive
approval by a majority of votes.
Publication of the nomination and the voting procedure, and posting
of RC votes, shall take place openly in the FTSC_PUBLIC echo, and
voting shall close three weeks after publication of the vote.

The status of RC's will be determined by nodelist.028 of this year by
the list as issued by the ZC in the zone where they reside.

All RCs and members of a nominating committee are hereby
invited to nominate members. Nominations must be posted in the
FTSC_PUBLIC echo.

Nominations start at Sunday, 30 January 2022, 20:00 UTC and end at
Sunday, 20 February 2022, 20:00 UTC.

Nominators are advised to sound out prospective nominees before
filing a nomination. There is little or no point in nominating
someone that has not shown interest and expressed willingness to
accept.

Note to candidates: The main task of the FTSC is to document current
practise. Contrary to what the name suggests, the FTSC does not create standards out of the blue. Current Fidonet practise evolves and when
it has stabilized, it may become a standard through FTSC documentation.
Also, the FTSC is not an enforcement body. Those who wish to join the
FTSC in order to "engineer Fidonet" may be in for a disappointment.
Our main job is that of a clerk. We write the technical manual, we do
not design the machine. To avoid disappointment, sysops interested in
joining the FTSC are strongly advised to read the following documents:

http://ftsc.org/docs/fta-1000.002
http://ftsc.org/docs/fta-1001.007

Andrew Leary
FTSC Election Coordinator

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)

Hello Andrew!

*** Thursday 20.01.22 at 06:34, Andrew Leary wrote to All:

[snip]

From FTA-1001.007

3.2 FTSC Standing Members
-------------------------

[snip]

To be selected as a FTSC member, an individual must be a Fidonet
node, and should be actively involved in Fidonet. Examples include
having put out a Fidonet-related product or having updated a product
in the preceding two years, or having experience as a Coordinator,
Echomail Coordinator or mail or file Hub.

I ask again, why are FidoNet Points excluded from being selected?

Regards,
Martin

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: ====== >>> (2:310/31.3)

Hello Martin!

23 Jan 22 07:25, you wrote to me:

I ask again, why are FidoNet Points excluded from being selected?

Points are considered to be roughly equivalent to BBS users. Membership in the FTSC requires technical knowledge that MOST users would not have; in fact even many nodes do not possess the expertise to be an effective FTSC member. That is why FTA-1001 specifies nodes that are actively involved in FidoNet, having put out or updated a FidoNet-related project in the preceding 2 years, or having experience as a Coordinator, EchoMail Coordinator, or mail or file Hub.

Regards,

Andrew

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)

I ask again, why are FidoNet Points excluded from being selected?

Methinks we've had enough of Happy Amateurs, who only yearn for the title.

Although, being reduced to mere secretaries, that can only document "features" already in use, could be cause of reviewing the criteria for being on the FTSC...



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)

Andrew,

Membership in
the FTSC requires technical knowledge that MOST users would not have; in fact even many nodes do not possess the expertise to be an effective
FTSC member.

<hear hear>

I know of several RCs as well as ZCs (past 'and' present) who do not even qualify as an RC resp. a ZC.

The Khrap at the bottom of the barrel has become very thin...

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 20 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello Andrew!

*** Sunday 23.01.22 at 02:58, Andrew Leary wrote to Martin Foster:

I ask again, why are FidoNet Points excluded from being selected?

Points are considered to be roughly equivalent to BBS users. Membership in the FTSC requires technical knowledge that MOST users would not have; in fact even many nodes do not possess the expertise to be an effective FTSC member. That is why FTA-1001 specifies nodes that are actively involved in FidoNet, having put out or updated a FidoNet-related project in the preceding 2 years, or having experience as a Coordinator, EchoMail Coordinator, or mail or file Hub.

Thank you for answering my question, much appreciated.

Regards,
Martin
--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: Bitz-Box - Bradford - UK (2:310/31.3)

Hello Bj”rn!

*** Sunday 23.01.22 at 11:32, Bj”rn Felten wrote to Martin Foster:

I ask again, why are FidoNet Points excluded from being selected?

Methinks we've had enough of Happy Amateurs,

LOL!

who only yearn for the title.

I don't recall stating anywhere that I'm interested in being on the FTSC.
In fact, nothing could be further from the truth.

Regards,
Martin
--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: Bitz-Box - Bradford - UK (2:310/31.3)

After another year of nothing, it's elections season again.

Andrew wrote (2022-01-23):

Hello Martin!

I ask again, why are FidoNet Points excluded from being selected?

Points are considered to be roughly equivalent to BBS users. Membership in the FTSC requires technical knowledge [...]

That is some oversimplification that is not grounded in reality. To getting elected requires you to be a node and make your intention to get elected public in FTSC_PUBLIC.

Technical knowledge is nowhere mentioned in FTA-1001

[...] technical knowledge that MOST users would not have;

But SOME do.

in fact even many nodes do not possess the expertise to be an effective FTSC member.

in fact even many FTSC members do not possess the expertise (or motivation) to be an effective FTSC member.

That is why FTA-1001 specifies nodes that are actively
involved in FidoNet, having put out or updated a FidoNet-related project in the preceding 2 years, or having experience as a Coordinator, EchoMail Coordinator, or mail or file Hub.

What if, if a point has that experience? Why wouldn't they qualify? And why do nodes get elected that are running broken FTN software from 20 years ago?

Why are points that are actively involved in FTN software / projects / technology excluded?

Why are points that are having experience as a coordinator, echomail coordinator, or mail or file hub are excluded?

Why should nodelist clerks just collect another head and then show no interest of achieving anything as an FTSC member?

But that doesn't matter anyway. The FTSC is still dead and the election process is a farce.

Happy election season!

---
* Origin: Birds aren't real (2:280/464.47)

Good ${greeting_time}, Martin!

23 Jan 2022 07:25:00, you wrote to Andrew Leary:

To be selected as a FTSC member, an individual must be a Fidonet
node, and should be actively involved in Fidonet. Examples include
having put out a Fidonet-related product or having updated a
product in the preceding two years, or having experience as a
Coordinator, Echomail Coordinator or mail or file Hub.

I ask again, why are FidoNet Points excluded from being selected?

Points aren't the Fidonet members. In general, they don't exist at all.


--
Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

... that's why I really dislike fools.
--- /bin/vi
* Origin: ::1 (2:5020/545)

Good ${greeting_time}, Oli!

Oli... WTF is that? Looks as a catty or doggy name from here.

23 Jan 2022 13:05:02, you wrote to Andrew Leary:

I ask again, why are FidoNet Points excluded from being selected?

Points are considered to be roughly equivalent to BBS users.
Membership in the FTSC requires technical knowledge [...]

That is some oversimplification that is not grounded in reality.
To getting elected requires you to be a node and make your intention
to get elected public in FTSC_PUBLIC.
Technical knowledge is nowhere mentioned in FTA-1001

But the experience is. However, that's already appeared to be not really enough...

[...] technical knowledge that MOST users would not have;

But SOME do.

The candidates MUST (as in FTA-1006) have both knowlegde _and_ experience.

in fact even many nodes do not possess the expertise to be an
effective FTSC member.

in fact even many FTSC members do not possess the expertise (or motivation) to be an effective FTSC member.

To be honest, more than a half of today's FTSC are mentally impaired.

That is why FTA-1001 specifies nodes that are actively involved in
FidoNet, having put out or updated a FidoNet-related project in the
preceding 2 years, or having experience as a Coordinator, EchoMail
Coordinator, or mail or file Hub.

What if, if a point has that experience?

So why that point doesn't run a node yet?

There are plenty of possibilities: IBN (at VPS|VDS), IMI... even Pvt (for experienced technicians, who are unable to run any sort of classic node).

Why wouldn't they qualify?

They are welcome to run a node. That's really simple, especially for really experienced people,

And why do nodes get elected that are running broken FTN software
from 20 years ago?

That's a flaw in the election process: idiots _do_ sneak in, and nothing can serve as a barrier for that.

Why are points that are actively involved in FTN software / projects / technology excluded?

Involved? Where?

git clone what?
git blame who?

Actually I look only at R50 (and friendly regions like R40, R45 and R46), but here we have a properly functioning "ladder" raising people from BBS user to point, from point to a node etc.

Do you?

Why are points that are having experience as a coordinator, echomail coordinator, or mail or file hub are excluded?

To be a ^Hub, [NRZ]C or [NRZ]EC one have to be a sysop of an individual node first.

Why should nodelist clerks just collect another head and then show no interest of achieving anything as an FTSC member?

The nodelist clerks SHOULD NOT (again as in FTA-1006) participate in FTSC.

The FTSC is for the software developers. The nodelist clerks are welcome as invited guests here, but their voices are just colsultative, not imperative.

(If someone thinks the word "imperative" is wrong: ¨¤¨ ­ åã©).

But that doesn't matter anyway. The FTSC is still dead and the
election process is a farce.

- Hullo! Reanimation dept? Is Joe still alive?
- Still no.

Happy election season!

Have fuc^Hn :-)


--
Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

... that's why I really dislike fools.
--- /bin/vi
* Origin: ::1 (2:5020/545)

To be honest, more than a half of today's FTSC are mentally impaired.

I doubt that you have the correct language experience, although quite vocal but that is something else, to fathom what you exactly said. It may be correct in Trump's America, but not here. OK?

Truly insulting someone is an art ... learn it if you want to play.

If you meant to say that more than half of the FTSC members are not qualified following the established rules, then that is not an insult but an opinion ... which I share.

\%/@rd

--- DB4 - Jan 20 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed (2:292/854)

Hello Alexey!

*** Monday 24.01.22 at 02:22, Alexey Vissarionov wrote to Oli:

[snip]

Why are points that are actively involved in FTN software / projects /
technology excluded?

Involved? Where?

For starters, you may like to have a look here ..... https://sourceforge.net/projects/openxp5/

That project has been in *active* development for over 8 years and ever
since the project was started, all the project members have been FidoNet Points.

Have a nice day .....

Regards,
Martin

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: Bitz-Box - Bradford - UK (2:310/31.3)

Hello Alexey!

*** Monday 24.01.22 at 01:20, Alexey Vissarionov wrote to Martin Foster:

To be selected as a FTSC member, an individual must be a Fidonet
node, and should be actively involved in Fidonet. Examples include
having put out a Fidonet-related product or having updated a
product in the preceding two years, or having experience as a
Coordinator, Echomail Coordinator or mail or file Hub.

I ask again, why are FidoNet Points excluded from being selected?

Points aren't the Fidonet members. In general, they don't exist at all.

If Points don't exist, how is it that there's a Z2 Pointlist.

Regards,
Martin

--- OpenXP 5.0.51
* Origin: Bitz-Box - Bradford - UK (2:310/31.3)

//Hello Alexey,//

on *23.01.22* at *23:22:22* You wrote in rea *FTSC_PUBLIC*
to *Oli* about *"2022 FTSC Standing Member Election - Call for Nominations"*.

I ask again, why are FidoNet Points excluded from being selected?

Good point ;) After seeing the call I for a second considered dropping my name in before reading that part and returning to sanity.

To be honest, more than a half of today's FTSC are mentally impaired.

Oh it really seems I do qualify ;)

What if, if a point has that experience?

So why that point doesn't run a node yet?

Because that clever point may not enjoy to go through the configuration of a node system puzzled together from at more than half a dozen pieces of legacy software to get ... well ... at least no added value compared to using the pont software he or she already has ;) Back in the days, some nodes where in fact also running point software for the added comfort.

They are welcome to run a node. That's really simple, especially for really experienced people,

Sure, but why bother. Raising the bar on a job that means basically just work. Not to offend anyone, but standardization work itself is just painful and FTSC is nowadays not something that gets you to the edge of technology or even respect from your colleagues. Actually it might be better not to tell them at all to avoid the jokes.

That's a flaw in the election process: idiots do sneak in, and nothing
can serve as a barrier for that.

Always. Anyplace. Any election. But as I tend to say: democracy sometimes means that the majority of people get the government they DESERVE :)

Why are points that are actively involved in FTN software / projects /
technology excluded?

Involved? Where?

Here for example.

Actually I look only at R50 (and friendly regions like R40, R45 and R46), but here we have a properly functioning "ladder" raising people from BBS user to point, from point to a node etc.

[There is something in me wanting to joke here. Me must resist.]

The FTSC is for the software developers.

Finally you get to the point. So why is this not reflected in the requirements?

But that doesn't matter anyway. The FTSC is still dead and the election
process is a farce.

This is actually a serious. Without people willing to actually advance the technology (both in terms of standards and implementation), this is just about managing typos.

Regards,
Tim
--- WinPoint 395.1
* Origin: Original WinPoint Origin! (2:240/1120.29)