as R18C, i'd like to nominate the following just-expired members...

Andrew Leary 1:320/219
mark lewis 1:3634/12
Richard Menedetter 2:310/31

xxcarol has already been nominated and she has accepted.

i would also nominate nicholas boel but he seems to be very busy elsewhere and has not voiced an interest in continuing to be a member of the FTSC :(


)\/(ark
--- SBBSecho 3.06-Linux
* Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)

Hello mark!

02 Feb 19 20:15, you wrote to all:

as R18C, i'd like to nominate the following just-expired members...

Andrew Leary 1:320/219
mark lewis 1:3634/12
Richard Menedetter 2:310/31

ACK.

Andrew
FTSC Election Coordinator

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)

Hello everybody!

02 Feb 19 20:15, mark lewis wrote to all:

as R18C, i'd like to nominate the following just-expired members...

Andrew Leary 1:320/219

Accepted.

Andrew

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)

Good ${greeting_time}, All!

02 Feb 2019 20:15:10, mark lewis wrote to you:

as R18C, i'd like to nominate the following just-expired members...
mark lewis 1:3634/12

Yet another bottom hit: self-nomination.
Until now here were only votes for self.


--
Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

... :wq!
--- /bin/vi
* Origin: http://openwall.com/Owl (2:5020/545)

Good ${greeting_time}, Andrew!

02 Feb 2019 20:28:40, Andrew Leary wrote to mark lewis:

as R18C, i'd like to nominate the following just-expired members...
Andrew Leary 1:320/219

ACK.
Andrew
FTSC Election Coordinator

And - immediately - next bottom hit: self-approvement by election coordinator.


--
Alexey V. Vissarionov aka Gremlin from Kremlin
gremlin.ru!gremlin; +vii-cmiii-ccxxix-lxxix-xlii

... god@universe:~ # cvs up && make world
--- /bin/vi
* Origin: http://openwall.com/Owl (2:5020/545)

Hi mark!

02 Feb 2019 20:15, from mark lewis -> All:

Richard Menedetter 2:310/31

Thanx, I accept the nomination.

CU, Ricsi

... A man who lives in a glass house should dress in the basement.
--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: What part of "NO" didn't you understand...? (2:310/31)

Alexey,

And - immediately - next bottom hit: self-approvement by election coordinator.

There's a reason why I suggested to have an external election coordinator.

The previous election someone even nominated himself, ACK-ed himself, accepted himself and acknowledged the self-acceptance of the self-ACK-ed self-nomination... that person was the administrator, election-coordinator, nominating RC and candidate, all in one juggling nodenumbers.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

Hello, Alexey!

Replying to a message of Alexey Vissarionov to All:

And - immediately - next bottom hit: self-approvement by election coordinator.

For a hobby, you take this (and yourself) way too seriously.

Later,
Sean

--- FleetStreet 1.27.1
* Origin: Outpost BBS Local Console (1:18/200)

Hello Ward.

03 Feb 19 23:29, you wrote to Alexey Vissarionov:

There's a reason why I suggested to have an external election
coordinator.

We, actual FTSC members, seem more time worrying about voting than actually documenting current practices. I think we could do better than this.

Later,
Sean

--- GoldED/2 3.0.1
* Origin: Outpost BBS Local Console (1:18/200)

Hi Sean,

There's a reason why I suggested to have an external election
coordinator.

We, actual FTSC members, seem more time worrying about voting than
actually documenting current practices. I think we could do better than this.

Perhaps a good moment then to lead by example ...

Enjoy the remainder of your Sunday.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

Hello Richard!

03 Feb 19 20:51, you wrote to mark lewis:

02 Feb 2019 20:15, from mark lewis -> All:

Richard Menedetter 2:310/31

Thanx, I accept the nomination.

ACK.

Andrew
FTSC Election Coordinator

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)

On 2019 Feb 03 22:42:44, you wrote to All:

as R18C, i'd like to nominate the following just-expired members...
mark lewis 1:3634/12

Yet another bottom hit: self-nomination.

there's no rule against it and i verified before hand...

Until now here were only votes for self.

there have been self-nominations in the past...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... Help fight continental drift.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Mark,

there have been self-nominations in the past...

Sure, it doesn't make it less inappropriate.

It's like "Nobody is going to nominate me and I badly want in, so let me nominate myself". It's a weakness, just as a confirmed candidate running his own election.

If you wanted to be a candidate, all you had to do was ask me to find an RC willing to nominate you and it would happen.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

Yet another bottom hit: self-nomination.

I agree.

Until now here were only votes for self.

An even lower bottom hit IMnsHO.



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Re: Re: FTSC member election
By: Ward Dossche to Alexey Vissarionov on Sun Feb 03 2019 11:29 pm

And - immediately - next bottom hit: self-approvement by election
coordinator.

There's a reason why I suggested to have an external election

coordinator.

The previous election someone even nominated himself, ACK-ed himself, accepted himself and acknowledged the self-acceptance of the self-ACK-ed self-nomination... that person was the administrator, election-coordinator, nominating RC and candidate, all in one juggling nodenumbers.

There's a reason why the larger Fidonet of Yore limited hats but I'm afraid we no longer can do that cleanly.

I do agree with you that dusting off the 'rules' is a good idea, but it's hard to do in the middle of an election. Frankly, one of the other RC's will do the
honors if there is a problem.

xxcarol
--- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
* Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)

Re: FTSC member election
By: mark lewis to Alexey Vissarionov on Mon Feb 04 2019 12:55 pm

there have been self-nominations in the past...

Correct. It has not been uncommon to just ask here 'who wants to run' as you might recall in the 90's.

I see no harm in it. Anyone seen if Paul Quinn might be willing? Ozz Nixon might be worth investigating as well?

xxcarol
--- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
* Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)

I see no harm in it.

I guess that you also see no harm in voting for self?

It may be a specific Nordic country thing, but here we have what is called Jantelagen:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_of_Jante

I've been running in many elections during my 30 years in Fidonet, but I have never ever voted for myself. In one FTSC election I even lost with the single vote that I could have given myself. This was one of the many times when Black Hole Bob managed to get his RC gang to vote against any Z2 candidate.



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Re: FTSC member election
By: Bj”rn Felten to Carol Shenkenberger on Tue Feb 05 2019 01:09 am

I see no harm in it.

I guess that you also see no harm in voting for self?

In the cases we have, we knew they would be recommenended so it was a mere procedure to follow.

Conversely I mentioned a node here I feel will do well. I emailed him and he's
happy. He needs an RC recommendation but suspect it will be along pretty soon from someone. As an NC, I can suggest a candidate but not get them on the list.

Perhaps you have oters who might be overlooked to suggest?
xxcarol
--- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
* Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)

Hi! xxCarol,

On 04 Feb 19 18:43, you wrote to mark lewis:

By: mark lewis to Alexey Vissarionov on Mon Feb 04 2019 12:55 pm

there have been self-nominations in the past...

Correct. It has not been uncommon to just ask here 'who wants to run'
as you might recall in the 90's.

I see no harm in it. Anyone seen if Paul Quinn might be willing? Ozz Nixon might be worth investigating as well?

I'm happy to nominate any brave soul I consider suitable. OTOH, I'm double-double thinking about even voting this time around. E.g., we seem to have ended up with an administrator wanting to be a member as well. Did I get that right? Is that even kosher?

Cheers,
Paul.

... "Always bet on black", John Cutter (1992).
--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20130515
* Origin: Quinn's Rock - Live from Paul's Xubuntu desktop! (3:640/1384)

Re: FTSC member election
By: Paul Quinn to Carol Shenkenberger on Tue Feb 05 2019 11:43 am

Correct. It has not been uncommon to just ask here 'who wants to
run' as you might recall in the 90's.

I see no harm in it. Anyone seen if Paul Quinn might be willing?
Ozz Nixon might be worth investigating as well?

I'm happy to nominate any brave soul I consider suitable. OTOH, I'm double-double thinking about even voting this time around. E.g., we seem to have ended up with an administrator wanting to be a member as well.

Did

I get that right? Is that even kosher?

Grin, It's an oddity of the rules that Andrew has to run also. That is why after thisis over, we dust off the rules and fix then up a bit. It's really silly to vote in a new coordinator one month then have to vote thatthey are even a member the next month.

I think you should run. You have a voice of sanity. I can't nominate you as am not an RC, but if you say you consider it, I bet RC's start tossing your name in right away.

xxcarol
--- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
* Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)

Re: FTSC member election
By: Carol Shenkenberger to mark lewis on Mon Feb 04 2019 06:43 pm

I see no harm in it. Anyone seen if Paul Quinn might be willing? Ozz

Nixon

might be worth investigating as well?

All,

Yes, I would like to contribute, and accept any nomination (Ward? Mark?). So this is a Pre-Acceptence to a potentially pending Nomination ;-)

Back to coding...
O.
--- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
* Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)

Ozz,

Yes, I would like to contribute, and accept any nomination (Ward?
Mark?).
So this is a Pre-Acceptence to a potentially pending Nomination ;-)

I have no mandate to nominate but if no-one does, I will ask my RC to do so.

The thing is, however, people running and being elected (which is the case for most if not all) need to be part of the exercise and not just be lurking in the background. FTSC-membership is not an honorary title, it's a work-commitment.

It's also not a case of 'the more the merrier'...

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

Hi! xxCarol,

On 02/05/2019 01:48 PM, you wrote:

I think you should run. You have a voice of sanity. I can't
nominate you as I am not an RC, but if you say you consider it, I bet
RC's start tossing your name in right away.

No. No, no... no. I reject that notion as vehemently as Mr Peabody, the Shinbone editor, rejected the statehood convention representative nomination in Duke's "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" flick.

No, no... no...

Cheers,
Paul.

--- Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0
* Origin: Confucius say, Sh*t happens. (3:640/1384.125)

Hi Ozz,

On 2019-02-05 01:45:54, you wrote to Carol Shenkenberger:

Yes, I would like to contribute, and accept any nomination (Ward?
Mark?). So this is a Pre-Acceptence to a potentially pending
Nomination ;-)

* Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)

I'm curious, why are you sending this from Carol's bbs, and not from your own node?


Bye, Wilfred.

--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)

Hello Carol!

04 Feb 19 22:48, you wrote to Paul Quinn:

Grin, It's an oddity of the rules that Andrew has to run also. That
is why after thisis over, we dust off the rules and fix then up a bit. It's really silly to vote in a new coordinator one month then have to
vote thatthey are even a member the next month.

Technically, the FTSC Administrator is not required to be a member of the FTSC. Long standing precedent, however, has had the adminstrator come from the ranks of the FTSC Standing Members.

Andrew


--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20180707
* Origin: Phoenix BBS * phoenix.bnbbbs.net (1:320/219)

Re: Re: FTSC member election
By: Ward Dossche to Ozz Nixon on Tue Feb 05 2019 08:14 am

The thing is, however, people running and being elected (which is the

case

for most if not all) need to be part of the exercise and not just be lurking in the background. FTSC-membership is not an honorary title, it's a work-commitment.

Thanks for the perspective Ward. I am not a lurker (sounds fun though), I am dedicated to the BBS community, and have been busy building my own mailers, revisions to JAMAPI, helping other authors, etc. During this, I have found areas that should be explained a little more detail, deprecated, or working examples or test systems to help validate. So, to my personally, it is a honorable title - as it could help others through the documenation of their proposals.

Regards,
Ozz
--- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
* Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)

Re: Re: FTSC member election
By: Wilfred van Velzen to Ozz Nixon on Tue Feb 05 2019 09:15 am

I'm curious, why are you sending this from Carol's bbs, and not from your own node?

Hey Wilfred,

Mainly as I have my mailer and BBS tore apart. I ran 2017 with GoldEd, 2018 with d'Bridge and this year I am building QuickBBS 3.0ml and PCBoard 16 - implementing JAMAPI in both. So, like last year when I switched to d;Bridge - had to borrow Carol's system to help communicate without fear of making a mess.

;-)

Regards,
Ozz
--- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
* Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)

Hey Ozz,

Thanks for the perspective Ward. I am not a lurker (sounds fun though), I am dedicated to the BBS community, and have been busy building my own mailers,
revisions to JAMAPI, helping other authors, etc. During this, I have
found areas that should be explained a little more detail, deprecated, or working
examples or test systems to help validate. So, to my personally, it is a honorable title - as it could help others through the documenation of
their proposals.

Thank you. You answered eloquently the question which wasn't asked yet. 8-)

You got my vote ... if they'd let me.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 3.99 SR41
* Origin: Ceci n'est pas un courriel (2:292/854)

Re: Re: FTSC member election
By: Ward Dossche to Ozz Nixon on Tue Feb 05 2019 06:36 pm

Thank you. You answered eloquently the question which wasn't asked yet. 8-)

haha... practicing. ;-)
--- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
* Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)

Re: FTSC member election
By: Paul Quinn to Carol Shenkenberger on Tue Feb 05 2019 05:39 pm

I think you should run. You have a voice of sanity. I can't
nominate you as I am not an RC, but if you say you consider it, I
bet RC's start tossing your name in right away.

No. No, no... no. I reject that notion as vehemently as Mr Peabody, the Shinbone editor, rejected the statehood convention representative nomination in Duke's "The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance" flick.

LOL! Ok. No harm in asking.

xxcarol
--- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
* Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)

Re: Re: FTSC member election
By: Wilfred van Velzen to Ozz Nixon on Tue Feb 05 2019 09:15 am

* Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)

I'm curious, why are you sending this from Carol's bbs, and not from your own node?

Probably was playing BRE here?

xxcarol
--- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
* Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)

Re: Re: FTSC member election
By: Ozz Nixon to Wilfred van Velzen on Tue Feb 05 2019 12:17 pm

I'm curious, why are you sending this from Carol's bbs, and not from
your own node?

Hey Wilfred,

Mainly as I have my mailer and BBS tore apart. I ran 2017 with GoldEd, 2018 with d'Bridge and this year I am building QuickBBS 3.0ml and PCBoard 16 - implementing JAMAPI in both. So, like last year when I switched to d;Bridge - I had to borrow Carol's system to help communicate without

fear

of making a mess.

Grin, I thought you were playing BRE again!

For the rest, Ozz takes down the outbound tossing on his end when he's working anythng that could cause a backflash like we just saw from another net recently. It's never obvious to me on when he's doing that as we don't read the same echos. The information comes from a late 2017 or so message from him.

xxcarol
--- SBBSecho 2.12-Win32
* Origin: SHENK'S EXPRESS telnet://shenks.synchro.net (1:275/100)

On 2019 Feb 04 22:09:18, you wrote to me:

there have been self-nominations in the past...

Sure, it doesn't make it less inappropriate.

and yet our friend nominated and voted for himself in another FTSC related election ;)

If you wanted to be a candidate,

that was already voiced and stated in the earlier posts about this election... four said yes, they would like to run again... one got nominated almost immediately... nothing happened with the other three so i queried and was told i could self nominate as well as nominate more than one person... since it had been several days since the start of the period and nothing else appeared to be being done, i decided to make my post...

all you had to do was ask me to find an RC willing to nominate you

i am an RC. do i not count?

and it would happen.

how many RCs are on the FTSC or have been this last time around? any of them could have but no one did... the statements of willingness had already been made...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... I won't drop your name at anti-IMF rallies hoping to get laid.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

On 2019 Feb 04 23:46:30, you wrote to Alexey Vissarionov:

Yet another bottom hit: self-nomination.

I agree.

is this a pot and kettle thing? our friend has nominated and voted for himself in at least one past FTSC related election...

Until now here were only votes for self.

An even lower bottom hit IMnsHO.

i didn't set the bar...

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... Thou shall flirt shamelessly with all members of the opposite sex.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

On 2019 Feb 04 18:43:52, you wrote to me:

there have been self-nominations in the past...

Correct. It has not been uncommon to just ask here 'who wants to run' as you might recall in the 90's.

that was asked in the other echo and responded to by all except one... those positions of willingness were also forwarded in here as part of the original election related posts...

I see no harm in it.

thank you :)

Anyone seen if Paul Quinn might be willing? Ozz Nixon might be worth investigating as well?

i'll leave this alone for now as i know that there is movement afoot elsewhere ;)

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... It is pleasant to do nothing.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

On 2019 Feb 05 11:43:20, you wrote to Carol Shenkenberger:

double-double thinking about even voting this time around. E.g., we seem to have ended up with an administrator wanting to be a member as well.

Did

I get that right? Is that even kosher?

the outgoing chair was a member as well as the chair... there's no rules against that in the charter... it may even be mentioned as specifically allowed...

http://ftsc.org/docs/

)\/(ark

Always Mount a Scratch Monkey
Do you manage your own servers? If you are not running an IDS/IPS yer doin' it wrong...
... VIRGIN WOOL: Wool from a sheep that could outrun the farmer.
---
* Origin: (1:3634/12.73)

Hi! mark,

On 02/08/2019 06:22 AM, you wrote:

to have ended up with an administrator wanting to be a member as

well. Did I get that right? Is that even kosher?

the outgoing chair was a member as well as the chair... there's no rules against that in the charter... it may even be mentioned as specifically allowed...

Yes...

Publication: FTA-1003
Revision: 24

I should have looked first. My bad. But OTOH, at every voting round I find it awkward nor knowing who is 'up' for a refresh of membership aside from new volunteers. Advice of the list of members whose term has been exhausted ought to be a part of the process of the new election.

Thank you for the head smack. ;)

Cheers,
Paul.

--- Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:31.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/31.4.0
* Origin: =-DING!-= Dinner's Ready! (3:640/1384.125)

Hallo mark!

07.02.2019 15:11, mark lewis schrieb an Ward Dossche:

and it would happen.

how many RCs are on the FTSC or have been this last time around? any
of them could have but no one did... the statements of willingness had already been made...

Some more than you imagine. Also, not every echomail need a comment.

)\/(ark

Bye/2 Torsten

... MAILBOX01 on OS2: up 3d 1h 11m load: 33 proc, 127 threads (tbupv1.1)
--- GoldED+ 1.1.5-18
* Origin: DatenBahn BBS Hamburg (2:240/5832)