As Ward pointed out an election is overdue and even more so now that
Janis has left Fidonet at least according to the current Nodelist and Dailies.
Any one up to take the election on and do the honours to find volunteers to
take up the Moderation etc ?
This echo is up for renewal as far as ELIST is concerned so I will Temporarily look after the Moderatorship for it but the new mod will also need to deal with this as well after election.
Hi Vincent,
On 2022-02-02 14:28:04, you wrote to All:
As Ward pointed out an election is overdue and even more so now
that Janis has left Fidonet at least according to the current
Nodelist and Dailies.
Any one up to take the election on and do the honours to find
volunteers to take up the Moderation etc ?
This echo is up for renewal as far as ELIST is concerned so I
will Temporarily look after the Moderatorship for it but the new
mod will also need to deal with this as well after election.
A moderator isn't obligated to do anything regarding the ELIST!
Here's an idea, why not let the area as it is, without moderator and elisting, and see what happens!?
Here's an idea, why not let the area as it is, without moderator and elisting, and see what happens!?
Here's an idea, why not let the area as it is, without moderator and
elisting, and see what happens!?
one of the things that will happen is that it will be removed from the backbone distribution list... some systems may elect to drop it in their bitbucket at that time... other systems may elect to maintain a link to it in another of their message area groups... depending on their setup and connections, this may mean that some systems will have to switch feeds for the area...
A moderator isn't obligated to do anything regarding the ELIST!
Here's an idea, why not let the area as it is, without moderator and
elisting, and see what happens!?
No the moderator soes NOT need to do any thing but -
It will be deleted from ELIST system once expired.
The whole idea behind the renewals currently every six months is to
ensure dead echo's are removed on the basis that the mod has gone and
so will the echo unless taken up by another person.
This is not me saying this it's been there for over 20+ years all the
way back to the ECHOBASE system. Like wise the same as Ben had it.
Hi Vincent,
On 2022-02-02 15:09:46, you wrote to me:
A moderator isn't obligated to do anything regarding the ELIST!
Here's an idea, why not let the area as it is, without moderator
and elisting, and see what happens!?
No the moderator soes NOT need to do any thing but -
It will be deleted from ELIST system once expired.
I see a plus. ;-)
The whole idea behind the renewals currently every six months is
to ensure dead echo's are removed on the basis that the mod has
gone and so will the echo unless taken up by another person.
Nope. The echo will happily continue to exist without a moderator.
There are plenty of examples!
This is not me saying this it's been there for over 20+ years all
the way back to the ECHOBASE system. Like wise the same as Ben
had it.
Yes, causing problems and agrevation all that time...
Yes, causing problems and agrevation all that time...
What problems ?
Hopefully by putting all echo's within the system will allow areas
that do not have a description to be added to with such and that can
only help all sysop's.
Hi Vincent,
On 2022-02-02 16:05:05, you wrote to me:
Yes, causing problems and agrevation all that time...
What problems ?
I'm not going to regurgitate all the history of miss-use and the role
the elist played in the so called "zone wars"...
Hopefully by putting all echo's within the system will allow
areas that do not have a description to be added to with such and
that can only help all sysop's.
You don't seem to get that some people don't want anything to do with
the elist. Just going ahead and list those areas anyway on your own initiative is going to cause annoyance at least...
The whole idea behind the renewals currently every six months is to
ensure dead echo's are removed on the basis that the mod has gone ...
Look, if you have no use for then don't use it, period.
There are bunches of echoes with moderators that are as dead as Napoleon Bonaparte.
Look, if you have no use for then don't use it, period.
About the elist ... look ... it's a free world and it's your privilege to p almost whatever almost where-ever, but some of us (incl myself) don't like that this elist-thing is forced down on us from about every other angle as it's unavoidable and a tool for survival.
In Z2 the elist has never been a thing especially after what happened to Peter Witschi which prompted many of us to not even touch it with a 10ft pole. It was a power-struggle, it was one of the corner stones of the
Zone Warz .... It has a very bitter taste ...
Granted, I wasn't here when that happened. I was too busy playing on the world wide web. I literally have to rely on second-hand opinions. But some these opinions are not kind to you, Ward! And your recent activity in some echoes are not helping.
Granted, I wasn't here when that happened. I was too busy playing on the world wide web.
I literally have to rely on second-hand opinions. But some of
these opinions are not kind to you, Ward! And your recent activity in
some echoes are not helping.
I am forced to listen to 'his story' in order to learn about Fido's history.
Please don't blame me when I get my facts wrong...
Ward Dossche wrote to Shaun Buzza <=-
There's a lot you don't know, Shaun, and I suggest you start
researching and get back to me when you're done in 5 or 6 years
... then perhaps you will be entitled to an opinion, but not now.
Just my two cents... since childhood I questioned everything. Question school, teachers, narratives, authority, politicians, the media. And rumors.
Sometimes, you should not rely on second-hand opinions of a person by
many and instead go direct to that person in question for clarification.
And sometimes, what happens is that person often proves themselves "correct" on some things and is actually a very polite awesome person to know privately.
In 1994? Gimme a break ... I've been in IT since 1970.
Ask me if I give a shite on both counts ...
Have I missed anything?
How are you doing on the article you promised to write?
You're right about Shaun (the McNoob). He's another flash-in-the-pan sysop who feels entitled and is mouthy. Likely he won't be around long though, I'd say 2-3 months and he'll tire of it and be gone.
Hopefully by putting all echo's within the system will allow
areas that do not have a description to be added to with such and
that can only help all sysop's.
You don't seem to get that some people don't want anything to do with
the elist. Just going ahead and list those areas anyway on your own
initiative is going to cause annoyance at least...
Look, if you have no use for then don't use it, period.
Here's an idea, why not let the area as it is, without moderator and
elisting, and see what happens!?
one of the things that will happen is that it will be removed from
the backbone distribution list... some systems may elect to drop it
in their bitbucket at that time... other systems may elect to
maintain a link to it in another of their message area groups...
depending on their setup and connections, this may mean that some
systems will have to switch feeds for the area...
In other words: this unnecessary NAB administration system is only
causing problems...
This is not me saying this it's been there for over 20+ years all the
way back to the ECHOBASE system. Like wise the same as Ben had it.
Yes, causing problems and agrevation all that time...
The benefit how ever is a block of echo's that do show the
Descriptions for each one where as the backbone does not, at least currently.
This is not me saying this it's been there for over 20+ years all
the way back to the ECHOBASE system. Like wise the same as Ben had
it.
Yes, causing problems and agrevation all that time...
wrong... certain people caused the problems and aggrivation... the system, itself, did not...
Hi mark,
On 2022-02-03 06:41:28, you wrote to me:
This is not me saying this it's been there for over 20+ years all
the way back to the ECHOBASE system. Like wise the same as Ben had
it.
Yes, causing problems and agrevation all that time...
wrong... certain people caused the problems and aggrivation... the
system,
itself, did not...
The echolist keepers were part of the problem and aggrivation. I call them part of the system.
Bye, Wilfred.
--- FMail-lnx64 2.1.0.18-B20170815
* Origin: FMail development HQ (2:280/464)
Yes, causing problems and agrevation all that time...
wrong... certain people caused the problems and aggrivation... the
system, itself, did not...
The echolist keepers were part of the problem and aggrivation. I call
them part of the system.
Why or how did the echolist keepers cause problems?
Why or how did the echolist keepers cause problems?
Hi Vincent,
On 2022-02-02 19:19:02, you wrote to me:
Hopefully by putting all echo's within the system will allow
areas that do not have a description to be added to with such
and that can only help all sysop's.
You don't seem to get that some people don't want anything to do
with the elist. Just going ahead and list those areas anyway on
your own initiative is going to cause annoyance at least...
Look, if you have no use for then don't use it, period.
Well there's your problem. If you start listing those areas without consulting and consent, where anyone can send in mutations, you are
forcing the people that don't want to have to do anything with the
elist...
I think it's your responsability to find out what the status of an
area and it's "owner"/moderator is, before you start adding them to
your database. And if you can't contact them, and get a response, you
should regard that as a NO when it comes to elisting them.
On 2022 Feb 02 16:05:04, you wrote to Wilfred van Velzen:
The benefit how ever is a block of echo's that do show the
Descriptions for each one where as the backbone does not, at
least currently.
the backbone.na and backbone.no files use the short one-line
description of an echo's listing... this one-line description and/or
the echotag are what are displayed to users on BBSes and in the
various message reading tools... the moderators are responsible for
this data...
That said I will be setting up the same s/w with some changes to support the backbone which...
Vince,
That said I will be setting up the same s/w with some changes to
support the backbone which...
Which bacbone? There is no backbone anymore ... years ago we shifted
to doing business in a different, but if you're happy doing this then
who am I to say you can't ...
It doesn't change that backbones are pretty useless these days ...
It doesn't change that backbones are pretty useless these days ...
Yes it is and it is a pain for sysops who wish to keep their system up to d with a full set of echo areas for their users or downlinks.
On 03 Feb 22 17:49:46, Vincent Coen said the following to Ward
Dossche:
It doesn't change that backbones are pretty useless these days ...
Yes it is and it is a pain for sysops who wish to keep their
system up to d with a full set of echo areas for their users or
downlinks.
Areas can get auto-added here to D'Bridge from links I specify
permission to, automatically added into my BBS, and automatically
available for Areafixing by others connecting here.
No config files, no scripts, no headaches, no "pain" at all.
No config files, no scripts, no headaches, no "pain" at all.
So what do you do for areas that are not on your system ?
It doesn't change that backbones are pretty useless these days ...
Yes it is and it is a pain for sysops who wish to keep their system up to date with a full set of echo areas for their users or downlinks.
there again there's a lot of echo's that do not require or need a 'moderator'
On 03 Feb 22 19:31:50, Vincent Coen said the following to Nick Andre:
No config files, no scripts, no headaches, no "pain" at all.
So what do you do for areas that are not on your system ?
Await them to be added or someone wants me to add them upon their
creation.
Hi Vincent,
On 2022-02-03 17:49:46, you wrote to Ward Dossche:
It doesn't change that backbones are pretty useless these days ...
Yes it is and it is a pain for sysops who wish to keep their
system up to date with a full set of echo areas for their users
or downlinks.
%+ALL is pretty standard these days!
there again there's a lot of echo's that do not require or need a
'moderator'
No areas _require_ a moderator these days.
Using the backbone file or others I have the system auto create them and linked
to the primary uplink - I do not need to do a thing.
See you in SIX months, when I review my twit filter again, ya wanker!
Terry,
Why or how did the echolist keepers cause problems?
The question is to Wilfred, but let me answer it.
Many many moons ago there was an echolist people worked with. There als was an echolist strictly focused on Z2.
When the echolist-keeper decided to close shop, and I have no idea
anymore when that was but at least 20 years ago ... more I think ... it was broadly decided that it would be best to have only 1 echolist,
merge both together. Peter Witschi from Switzerland was asked to
achieve that and he set to work.
Not slightly later someone else popped-up out of the blue saying he was going to run an echolist in North America because the then current echolist would be unacceptable for Z1. Peter Witschi, a very fine
person, was countered in his endeavours and left in disgust.
That was the time several sysops (among which myself) decided we had no use for an echolist ... haven't used it for decades, echomail still
flows ...
\%/@rd
--- DB4 - Jan 26 2022
* Origin: Hou het veilig, hou vol. Het komt allemaal weer goed
(2:292/854)
What I personally would like to see is an updated BACKBONE (it can be called
anything I really don't care) which is an updated list of current echo areas
and would only be used by sysops who want to use it.
That said I will be setting up the same s/w with some changes to
support the backbone which...
Which bacbone? There is no backbone anymore ...
years ago we shifted to doing business in a different,
but if you're happy doing this then who am I to say you can't ...
It doesn't change that backbones are pretty useless these days ...
I knew there were a lot of dead echos but I didn't have the report tools for my system to really see how bad it was until a friend wrote a
utility for me recently to do this.
A final question, did Zone 2 keep it's own Echolist after disagreement or did it die a death?
Which bacbone? There is no backbone anymore ...
once again, you know not of what you speak ;)
It doesn't change that backbones are pretty useless these days ...
on the contrary...
N203_STAT is available to anyone interested. It used to be about net
203 only (that means a net in region 20 in zone 2) but nowadays I'm
in the middle of the Fidoweb, and my system automatically creates
any new echo sent to it and ditto removes any dead echoes.
..
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125 * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
Which bacbone? There is no backbone anymore ...
once again, you know not of what you speak ;)
People have been trying to convince me for 28 years of that ... not
really doing a very good job if I may add ... :-)
It doesn't change that backbones are pretty useless these days ...
on the contrary...
Well ...
1/ First of all backbone-systems need to learn not to send packets to
the wrong destination
2/ Same backbone-systems need to learn to properly route netmails
amongst eachother, and not send them via me ...
Good thing there's a Fidoweb as a safety-net to take care of all the nonsens ...
N203_STAT is available to anyone interested. It used to be about net
203 only (that means a net in region 20 in zone 2) but nowadays I'm
in the middle of the Fidoweb, and my system automatically creates any
new echo sent to it and ditto removes any dead echoes.
Unfortunately some Mailers cannot automatically add and remove echo
areas automatically which mine can't do. [...]
I would appreciate a copy of your STAT to compare with mine, if easy to do please send a list of active echo areas as well to troati @ gmail . com.
As a matter of interest what security have
you setup to manage this function for the adding of new echo areas?
I would appreciate a copy of your STAT to compare with mine, if easy to do please send a list of active echo areas as well to troati @ gmail . com.
Thanks,
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)
People have been trying to convince me for 28 years of that ... not ml>WD> really doing a very good job if I may add ... :-)
:lol: i hear ya... same here, too :lol:
1/ First of all backbone-systems need to learn not to send packets ml>WD> to the wrong destination
not all software is built the same... some tossers do even allow
forwarding of PKTs not addressed to one of their AKAs... this is not specific to any system(s) operating in a meshed backbone layout...
2/ Same backbone-systems need to learn to properly route netmails
amongst eachother, and not send them via me ...
some operators prefer to use their own routing... even if it is not efficient... this is done all the time by operators and is not specific
to any system(s) operating in a meshed backbone layout...
Good thing there's a Fidoweb as a safety-net to take care of all the ml>WD> nonsens ...
funny thing, that, eh? does the Fidoweb call it "echo-routed netmail" as the various backbones have done since they first started accepting routed netmail from any connecting system? :)
I bet that really scares the shit out of Dan. How will he ever
survive that?
Just a reality check here:
Who won the 2020 POTUS election?
there is also the STATS echo where some systems post their various stats...
* Origin: The File Bank BBS! (3:640/1321)
I knew that I have seen this net address somewhere. You're on the
same net as one of my oldest Fido friends, Paul Quinn. I think that
we still have a direct connection -- netmail as well as echomail.
Just FYI... :)
..
--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125 * Origin: news://eljaco.se:4119 (2:203/2)
there is also the STATS echo where some systems post their various
stats...
Do you know how many echoes today are filled with information only
about what files are distributed via your hopelessly outdated star
system?
I mean, like, robots sending info about what now has been reduced to something of no real interest, save from a handful of eager followers.
How long will you try to uphold this myth of importance? Really? Just asking...
After all, every *C is supposed to (according to P4) make nodediffs
and fidonews available,
what else of such importance are you dealing with, with this plethora
of roboechoes?
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 374 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 130:53:13 |
| Calls: | 7,956 |
| Calls today: | 1 |
| Files: | 13,008 |
| Messages: | 5,812,917 |