Hello Everybody,

I told you he was nuts.
And nobody wanted to believe me.
Do you believe me now?

“Supposing we hit the body with a tremendous, if it's ultraviolet or
very powerful light. And I think he said that hasn't been checked but
he was going to test it. Then I said what it if you brought the light
inside of the body which you could do either through the skin or some
other way and I think you said you were going to test that, too. Sounds interesting. Then I see the disinfectant, knocks it out in one minute.
Is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside, or
almost a cleaning because you see it gets on the lungs. That you're
gonna have to use medical doctors. Because it sounds interesting. The
way the light killed that in one minute is pretty powerful.”
~ Donald J. Trump, 4/23/2020, live and on camera

--Lee

--
Nobody Beats Our Meat

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
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Immature.

Hello Everybody,

I told you he was nuts. And nobody wanted to believe me. Do you believe
me now?

“Supposing we hit the body with a tremendous, if it's ultraviolet or very powerful light. And I think he said that hasn't been checked but he was going to test it. Then I said what it if you brought the light inside of the body which you could do either through the skin or some other way and I think you said you were going to test that, too. Sounds
interesting. Then I see the disinfectant, knocks it out in one minute. Is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside, or almost a cleaning because you see it gets on the lungs. That you're gonna have
to use medical doctors. Because it sounds interesting. The way the light killed that in one minute is pretty powerful.” ~ Donald J. Trump, 4/23/2020, live and on camera

--Lee

-- Nobody Beats Our Meat

-+- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
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--- WinPoint Beta 5 (359.1)
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Lee Lofaso wrote to All <=-

Hello Everybody,

I told you he was nuts.
And nobody wanted to believe me.
Do you believe me now?

You're a hateful person.


... Visit me at: gopher://gcpp.world
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
* Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (1:340/7)

Hello Daniel,

I told you he was nuts.
And nobody wanted to believe me.
Do you believe me now?

You're a hateful person.

You're right. Absolutely right.
Here is what real doctors are saying
about the president's comments -

"It could definitely kill you."
~ Dr. Colleen Kraft, 4/24/2020

"This is a reminder that under no circumstances
should any disinfectant product be administered
into the body through injection, ingestion, or
any other route."
~ Maryland's Emergency Managemet Agency, 4/24/2020

"Household cleaners and disinfectants can cause
health problems when not used properly. Follow
the instructions on the product label to ensure
safe and effective use."
~ US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, 4/24/2020

Feel better now?

--Lee

--
I Take A Sheet In The Pool

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Re: Re: Psych Report Needed
By: Daniel to Lee Lofaso on Fri Apr 24 2020 12:00:00

Lee Lofaso wrote to All <=-

Hello Everybody,

I told you he was nuts.
And nobody wanted to believe me.
Do you believe me now?

Daniel> You're a hateful person.

no, he's a troll and a pretty damned good one, too... if i were to be a troll when i grow up, it'd be a troll like lee... though i daresay i'd probably be only 1/2 as good as he -=B-)

FWIW: it'll take some time but you and others not so familiar with lee will understand one day... maybe... his postings now are on the extremely tame side of the scale ;)


)\/(ark
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)

Lee Lofaso wrote to Daniel <=-

Hello Daniel,

I told you he was nuts.
And nobody wanted to believe me.
Do you believe me now?

You're a hateful person.

You're right. Absolutely right.
Here is what real doctors are saying
about the president's comments -

Well, at least you recognize that you're hateful. Do you realize your side owns
hate now more than ever? You're a testement to it. I've come across a number of
leftists who are true sociopaths and it fits into the pathology. The narcicistic youth is falling in to the trap too.

Love creates, hate destroys. Remember that.


... Visit me at: gopher://gcpp.world
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
* Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (1:340/7)

mark lewis wrote to Daniel <=-

Re: Re: Psych Report Needed
By: Daniel to Lee Lofaso on Fri Apr 24 2020 12:00:00

Lee Lofaso wrote to All <=-

Hello Everybody,

I told you he was nuts.
And nobody wanted to believe me.
Do you believe me now?

Daniel> You're a hateful person.

no, he's a troll and a pretty damned good one, too... if i were to be a troll when i grow up, it'd be a troll like lee... though i daresay i'd probably be only 1/2 as good as he -=B-)

FWIW: it'll take some time but you and others not so familiar with lee will understand one day... maybe... his postings now are on the
extremely tame side of the scale ;)

I peruse newsgroups. I see the left's seething hate pretty clearly. Actually, when Bush was president I thought we'd never see such rancor again. The left hates Trump so badly, regardless, that they actually like Bush now. He's actually popular. Blows my mind after eight years of constant rancor from the left. Today, though, it's pathological.

I recommend the book 'hate inc.' It's written by a rolling stone writer who discusses how the leftist media loves trump because he more-or-less saved them from financial destruction. They figured out that the left owns hate and if they write stories aren't even subtlely biased, and feeds on the left's hate, they'll make money. they're making money hand over fist over their web presence. Their cable presence is secondary now. It's all about the websites.

... Visit me at: gopher://gcpp.world
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
* Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (1:340/7)

The left hates Trump so badly, regardless,

How can you hate an incompetent, narcissistic clown, with the language of a 4th grader and the intelligence of a 1st grader?



..

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Bjorn Felten wrote to Daniel <=-

The left hates Trump so badly, regardless,

How can you hate an incompetent, narcissistic clown, with the
language of a 4th grader and the intelligence of a 1st grader?

You sound hateful as well Bjorn. May I ask if you live in the US?


... Visit me at: gopher://gcpp.world
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
* Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (1:340/7)

May I ask if you live in the US?

Good heavens no. I couldn't live in a country where all politicians are bribed.



..

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Re: Re: Psych Report Needed
By: Daniel to Bj�rn Felten on Sun Apr 26 2020 03:05:00

How can you hate an incompetent, narcissistic clown, with the
language of a 4th grader and the intelligence of a 1st grader?

Daniel> You sound hateful as well Bjorn. May I ask if you live in the US?

FWIW: you have the tools available with which to answer your question... his origin line says zone 2 and his nodelist entries say sweden ;)


)\/(ark
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Linux
* Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)

Daniel wrote to Lee Lofaso <=-

You're a hateful person.

As it takes hate to hate, I'm offended by your hatefulness.


... Honor thy error as a hidden intention
--- MultiMail/DOS v0.52
* Origin: http://realitycheckbbs.org | tomorrow's retro tech (1:218/700)

Hello Björn,

The left hates Trump so badly, regardless,

How can you hate an incompetent, narcissistic clown, with the language of 4th grader and the intelligence of a 1st grader?

It was a direct quote, with no changes. Trump said what he
said. Nobody can change that. Anybody can independently verify
what he said.

Nancy Pelosi corrected him today about those comments -

"Disinfectant in the body - you know what they call that?
They call that embalming - that's the medical term."
~ Nancy Pelosi to Jake Tapper, CNN, 4/26/2020

IOW, Trump wants us to self-embalm. I mean, mortuaries
are being overwhelmed. It saves them a step. Know what
I mean?

Show up at the hospital pre-embalmed!

The doctors, nurses, and other health care professionals
will thank you for it!

Only, Nancy Pelosi is wrong.

Injecting disinfectant is known as euthanasia. Why? Because
that is exactly what will happen to you if you inject whatever
brand of disinfectant you use.

Gotta kill yourself first before you can be embalmed.

At least one [anonymous] blogger has already figured that out -

Sorry folks, but I’ve got to go Godwin here.

One of the worst Nazis in the Third Reich was Dr. Josef Mengele, who
committed a long string of crimes against humanity that he called
“medical experiments.” After he starved you for a month, used weird chemicals to try to change your eye color, or did whatever he wanted
to do to you, he would kill you with an injection of phenol to the
heart before he dissected your body.

Trump probably doesn’t know this, but phenols are the active
ingredients in many common household cleaners and disinfectants.

And so, injecting disinfectant is known as euthanasia. Because that
is exactly what will happen to you if you inject fucking Lysol.

End of blogger rant.

Personally, I'd rather get hit by Thor's hammer rather than become
a cast of the walking dead.

--Lee

--
As Good As It Looks

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Bj�rn,

May I ask if you live in the US?

Good heavens no. I couldn't live in a country where all politicians are bribed.

We have contests here in the various states.
For years and years, Louisiana was number one.
I even used a tagline that read -

Louisiana has the best politicians that can be bought.

However, many other states have since claimed the title, and I got
tired of updating the tagline. So I simply dropped it, and let all
the states be equal.

--Lee

--
As Good As It Looks

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
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Bj!rn Felten wrote to Daniel <=-

May I ask if you live in the US?

Good heavens no. I couldn't live in a country where all politicians
are bribed.

Wow, absolute rubbish. There's right and wrong. And then, there's 'not even wrong.' You fit in the 'not even wrong' category. Your simple sentence said quite a bit, believe it or not.

I'm so very glad you don't live here. It's bad enough that the liberals have turned our education system into a joke. We have a growing population of kids who think earth is flat. So we can live without people like you.


... Visit me at: gopher://gcpp.world
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
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mark lewis wrote to Daniel <=-

Re: Re: Psych Report Needed
By: Daniel to Bj.rn Felten on Sun Apr 26 2020 03:05:00

How can you hate an incompetent, narcissistic clown, with the
language of a 4th grader and the intelligence of a 1st grader?

Daniel> You sound hateful as well Bjorn. May I ask if you live in the
US?

FWIW: you have the tools available with which to answer your
question... his origin line says zone 2 and his nodelist entries say sweden ;)

That would be worth what it is, but I don't see that from my newsreader. I may have to poke aroudn the config file to find that. And I'll have to learn about nodelist entries and what they mean.

... Visit me at: gopher://gcpp.world
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
* Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (1:340/7)

Kurt Weiske wrote to Daniel <=-

Daniel wrote to Lee Lofaso <=-

You're a hateful person.

As it takes hate to hate, I'm offended by your hatefulness.

That made no sense, but I'll give it a shot. Of course it takes hate to hate; that's what you do. It's natural for a hateful person to be offended. The emotion is related. I don't even dislike you, and I don't know a thing about you other than the seething hate that bleeds into your opinions.

I'll tell you what I hate: Political ideaologies that lead to oppression, fascism, control, and fear. Leftism has descended into a maw of such ideaologies and it is sad and dangerous. I don't hate individuals especially people like you. I hold hope that you will all wake up.

Friends I made in college who held leftist ideaologies woke up after they started paying taxes while contibuting to society as working adults. Many of them have been in my life for decades now and I love each of them. They dismiss
their college aged memories as a sign of youth and naivety while marvelling at how they've grown as individuals. And it's a marvel that I got to watch them grow into the people they are. I cherish their friendships.

So, Lee, I hope you feel better. Being hateful can't feel good. Remember this: Love creates, hate destroys.




... Visit me at: gopher://gcpp.world
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Hi Daniel!

26 Apr 2020 22:26, from Daniel -> Bj�rn Felten:

It's bad enough that the liberals have turned our education system
into a joke. We have a growing population of kids who think earth is
flat.

I need some help here.

We both agree that the education (and health) system of the USA is a joke.

But if I take a look at the correlation between ridicolous theories and the political view of the proponents of those, I see a clear and overwhelming correlation.

The vaaaaaaaaaast majority of those (flat eearthers, chemtrail evangelists, anti vaccers, other weirdos) vote republican.
The republican president thought about injecting bleach to cure Covid19 and to "internally" use UV for the same purpose.

I have never heared anything as ridicolous from any high ranking democratic poltician.
Soo currently I fail to see the correlation you hint at.
(To be honest I see the exact opposit correlation!)

I am quit happy to live in a country with a more or less working educational, health and social system.
But we need to be vigilant, as the next clown can come any time, and the situation can change very rapidly to the worse.

CU, Ricsi

... The best way to make a long story short is to stop listening.
--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: Memory...?...What memory? (2:310/31)

The republican president thought about injecting bleach to cure Covid19 and to "internally" use UV for the same purpose.

My favourite is when he claimed that the Revolutionary Army (from the 1700s!) took over airports.

http://tyt.com/dumb



..

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Good heavens no. I couldn't live in a country where all politicians
are bribed.

Wow, absolute rubbish.

Yes, not all your politicians are bought. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is *one* wonderful exception.

This is one of the many things that the rest of the world cannot understand why you accept. How can you not see that your system with politicians sponsored by major corporations is the ultimate corruption?

If even the slightest suspicion of a Swedish politician taking money, from even a small local pop&mom business, arose, he or she would be kicked out so fast they wouldn't even know what hit them.



..

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Hi Bj�rn!

27 Apr 2020 11:59, from Bj�rn Felten -> Richard Menedetter:

The republican president thought about injecting bleach to cure
Covid19 and to "internally" use UV for the same purpose.

My favourite is when he claimed that the Revolutionary Army (from
the 1700s!) took over airports.

Healthcare is also a great exampole:
"You're going to have such great health care, at a tiny fraction of the cost - and it's going to be so easy."

My first thought was ... OUCH ... he is soooooo very, very, very far from the truth of it being so easy!!! (Especially of you want to do it for a TINY fraction of the cost!)

What came next???
"Nobody knew health care could be so complicated"

Well (nearly) EVERYBODY knew ... except Trump.

Dunning Kruger effect at full work ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect

CU, Ricsi

... MS-DOS is to a real OS as "creation science" is to paleontology.
--- GoldED+/LNX
* Origin: All words are pegs on which to hang ideas. (2:310/31)

Richard,

Well (nearly) EVERYBODY knew ... except Trump.

I think it is a set-up and he has a deal with major networks to give their stand-up commedians a constant stream of material.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 4
* Origin: If you build it he will come (2:292/854)

I think it is a set-up and he has a deal with major networks to give
their stand-up commedians a constant stream of material.

He sure is entertaining himself. I start everyday, watching his latest stupidities -- two hours of rambling masqueraded as information from the White House. Although, I watch a few summaries of it (the best parts) readily available on the 'net, not all of it. DUH!

Just imagine that all the major TV companies are actually sending it live in it's entirety. Amazing...



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
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Hello Daniel,

You're a hateful person.

As it takes hate to hate, I'm offended by your hatefulness.

That made no sense, but I'll give it a shot. Of course it takes hate to hate;
that's what you do. It's natural for a hateful person to be offended. The emotion is related. I don't even dislike you, and I don't know a thing

about

you other than the seething hate that bleeds into your opinions.

[..]

So, Lee, I hope you feel better. Being hateful can't feel good. Remember this: Love creates, hate destroys.

"Do you not know that to be a lover of the world means enmity
with God? Therefore, whoever wants to be a lover of the world
makes himself an enemy of God." ~James 4:3

What does all this mean? It really is quite simple -

"Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." ~James 4:7

-Lee

--
Stop Workin', Start Jerkin'

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
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Hello Bj�rn,

I think it is a set-up and he has a deal with major networks to give
their stand-up commedians a constant stream of material.

He sure is entertaining himself.

What he does not seem to realize is he is only entertaining himself.
Even after his aides pointed that out to him, and begged him to limit
his performances at the White House, he refused to believe a word of
what they said. And so, the show must go on. Starring the one and
only Donald Trump. Playing himself.

I start everyday, watching his latest stupidities -- two hours of

rambling

masqueraded as information from the White House.

Wow! An international audience! Who'd a thunk it?

Although, I watch a few summaries of it (the best parts) readily

available

on the 'net, not all of it. DUH!

Most of the networks have already tired of the Trump Show, choosing
to cut away for regular programming.

Just imagine that all the major TV companies are actually sending it live

in

it's entirety. Amazing...

Not any more. Except maybe FoxNews.

This morning, Trump decided to cancel his afternooon show so he
could present a Monday Night Special this evening. Then he changed
his mind, without giving a reason. Maybe he found some new chairs
for reporters to sit in? I don't know. And I don't care.

His aides can't shut him up. Reporters can't shut him up.
Nobody can shut him up. Perhaps somebody should just hand him
a microphone and just let him speak. And speak. And speak.
All he really needs is an empty room.

--Lee

--
Our Nuts, Your Mouth

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Richard Menedetter wrote to Daniel <=-

Hi Daniel!

Hello.

26 Apr 2020 22:26, from Daniel -> Bj.rn Felten:

It's bad enough that the liberals have turned our education system
into a joke. We have a growing population of kids who think earth is
flat.

I need some help here.

We both agree that the education (and health) system of the USA is a
joke.

Alright you stirred the pot. The failure in our education system is multiphasic. Most educators, especially in the primary years, are leftist nouveau hippies. The children are taught by leftist ideologues and enter the college system to receive a radioactive dose of extremism. This is especially true in the Social Sciences. Discounting that and add focus to our STEM programs, we are among the best. After some reflection, I'm not convinced they can be blamed for producing conspiralists. This phenomenon is a relatively new addition to our culture and the blame goes to Youtube, recommendation algorithms, and plentiful access to mobile devices. My godsons were believers in something called slenderman. At the time they were eleven and thirteen but they've grown out of it since. They're both bright and intensely intelligent. One wants to pursue a career in aviation after riding in my plane. He is earning top grades while playing football - a fascination he never had as a child. The older one is set on robotics. He has a fascination with black hole singularities and calls me every so often to talk about it. Despite the slenderman debacle, it had all to do with creepypasta vids on youtube with an added dose of overactive imagination. The latter, of which, will suite him well
in engineering. The younger one was a child and, well, children are children.

The big cause of our education system's failure is in the ideaology and belief systems of its teachers. My neice explained what they were learning in science class and I couldn't believe my ears. I spoke to my sister but she was already on it. My neice is now in a STEM school learning real science on top of the other curriculum. She dissected a frog before Chistmas break yet I had to wait until junior high for that. In some cases our system is improving.

There is no doubt the US health system, bar none, is the best in the world. Despite Obama's socialized assault and blatant lies about his changes, we are still superior. Luckily, our system is capitalistic and has the robustness to absorb major hits, but not too many. I'm glad we have term limits or we'd be in
severe trouble. Trump is making changes to reverse Obama's failures but it'll take a second term to complete the job. WIth luck, the left will lose control of congress. And since their typical short-sighted changes were made on filibuster rules, they won't have the power to obstruct real lawmaking after republicans take control. I can't wait.

But if I take a look at the correlation between ridicolous theories and the political view of the proponents of those, I see a clear and overwhelming correlation.

New word. Let's call them conspiralists. I used the word above.

I have never heared anything as ridicolous from any high ranking democratic poltician.
Soo currently I fail to see the correlation you hint at.
(To be honest I see the exact opposit correlation!)

What a big assumption. How would you know what their political beliefs are? Do you know any conspiralists? The two conspiralists I know, both colleagues, are bigtime leftists with Obama and Clinton bumper stickers on their cars. Secondly, Democrats say ridiculous things day and night. You agree with them, so naturally you regard their positions as agreeable.

They're so ridiculous that, without exerting effort, AOC has effectively splintered that party. Barside politics is RI-DI-CU-LOUS. And the press gives here intense attention because they agree with her. I love her for it. They are
done. Leftist ideaology is so weak and frail that a kid was able to redefine them in a year's time. The rest of us, the silent majority, don't watch leftist
media or contribute to biased polls. We resist oppression, excessive control, sexism and racism.

Tell me, did you exhibit the same rancor toward Obama during his disastrous eight years? I'd bet a five dollar footlong you didn't.

I am quit happy to live in a country with a more or less working educational, health and social system.

How nationalistic of you. I am sure your country's system is spot on. Every country on earth models their system after yours. I'm sure that your country produces endless innovation and technological revolutions. I'm sure people fly to your country in droves for its healthcare. Each Fall season, droves of eighteen year olds migrate to your country to attend college. Wait... That's my
country, the US.

But we need to be vigilant, as the next clown can come any time, and
the situation can change very rapidly to the worse.

We? You're not American so who's we? You have zero say on what happens here. 'We need to be vigilant.' Guess what sunshine? The majority gets the voice in the US despite the left's attempts of fraud and ballot manipulation.

The left is facing a cornucopia of problems including a narcissistic and misplaced arrogance of their own intellect. To remove any opposing view from contention, leftists bombast about the idiocy of those who disagree. It would be farcical if it wasn't sad. Your anti-American snobbishness aside, I am thankful that you are among a loud minority.


... Visit me at: gopher://gcpp.world
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
* Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (1:340/7)

Bjorn Felten wrote to Daniel <=-

Good heavens no. I couldn't live in a country where all politicians
are bribed.

Wow, absolute rubbish.

Yes, not all your politicians are bought. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez
is *one* wonderful exception.

I love her too. She destroyed h er own party without ever trying to do so. She's a hero on the right.

This is one of the many things that the rest of the world cannot understand why you accept. How can you not see that your system with politicians sponsored by major corporations is the ultimate corruption?

Such arrogance that you claim to speak for the rest of the world. You have your
fingers on the pulse of all the culture's intentions and interests? I think not. But even then, they're not Americans nor do they vote. You must be a globalist, no-borders sort of person?

It's something I'll repeat from another thread. Leftists are so arrogant about their intellect that perspective is completely gone. When you focus on minute details that don't equate to anything beyond an emotional response, you completely miss the big picture because you're looking only through a microscope.

If even the slightest suspicion of a Swedish politician taking
money, from even a small local pop&mom business, arose, he or she would
be kicked out so fast they wouldn't even know what hit them.

Yeah okay whatever. An attempt to compare the Swedish government to the US is an example of this lack of perspective. And, honestly, I'll never denegrate the
intellect of anyone regardless of political interest but man, it must be hard to see with the eyes shut so tight.

... Visit me at: gopher://gcpp.world
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On 27 Apr 20 15:43:00, Daniel said the following to Bj*Rn Felten:

Such arrogance that you claim to speak for the rest of the world. You have fingers on the pulse of all the culture's intentions and interests? I think not. But even then, they're not Americans nor do they vote. You must be a globalist, no-borders sort of person?

You're wasting your time conversing with that troll. It won't be long before you are compared to a certain WWII dictator or you are a stupid American.

It's something I'll repeat from another thread. Leftists are so arrogant ab their intellect that perspective is completely gone. When you focus on

minut

I'll add to this that the problem with leftists is that they claim to be accepting of different opinion and "diversity", but scream murder whenever encountering someone who would dare vote conservative. Totally emotion-driven.

Nick

--- Renegade vY2Ka2
* Origin: Joey, do you like movies about gladiators? (1:229/426)

Hello Daniel,

I am quit happy to live in a country with a more or less working
educational, health and social system.

How nationalistic of you. I am sure your country's system is spot on.

Every

country on earth models their system after yours. I'm sure that your

country

produces endless innovation and technological revolutions. I'm sure people fly to your country in droves for its healthcare. Each Fall season, droves of
eighteen year olds migrate to your country to attend college. Wait...

That's

my country, the US.

The state of Louisiana offers free college tuition for its residents.
The state of Louisiana used to offer free medical care as well, until
the last Republican governor dismantled the hospital system that had
worked so well for decades.

Most people in the USA cannot afford to get sick, being either
under-insured or having no health insurance at all. And having
to repay those college loans at exorbitant interest rates puts
them even further in debt.

Talk about the land of the free, and the home of the brave.
More like the place to die young, as nobody is able to grow old.

But we need to be vigilant, as the next clown can come any time, and
the situation can change very rapidly to the worse.

We? You're not American so who's we? You have zero say on what happens

here.

'We need to be vigilant.' Guess what sunshine? The majority gets the voice in
the US despite the left's attempts of fraud and ballot manipulation.

Richard is German. I am Cajun. Not sure who or what you are.
Hillary Clinton received almost 3 million votes more than her
nearest opponent. Yet the loser was declared the winner. Goes
to show you how screwed up US presidential elections are.

--Lee

--
We Put Big Loads In Tight Places

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

When you focus on minute
details that don't equate to anything beyond an emotional response, you completely miss the big picture because you're looking only through a microscope.

That's OK. Just don't forget to inject your daily doses of bleach and you'll be fine.



..

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* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Lee Lofaso wrote to Daniel <=-

The state of Louisiana offers free college tuition for its residents.
The state of Louisiana used to offer free medical care as well, until
the last Republican governor dismantled the hospital system that had worked so well for decades.

Thank you for this example of socialism as a failed ethos. The college tuition program costs three hundred million dollars a year yielding a twenty percent success, the second lowest in the country. It's also the 25th least populated state in the Union. A leftist would call that a socialist mecca. Moreover, most students attending the system never complete the programs nor do they surpass remedial offerings. They effectively attend college to reattend high school level courses. In effect, the poor tax payers in Louisiana must pay twice to yield the same education. Ah yes, socialism at its best. They pay taxes for high school level education, then they pay a second time at the college level for repeated courses. What an expensive and a sad experiment. Further, the twenty percent grad rate is a dismal display of wasted tax monies.
If I lived in Louisiana, I'd demand the system be dismantled and, instead, promote existing scholarship programs that already exist. This country is chock
full of scholarships, many of which go unused.

The colleges are pocketing the remainder of the monies and I'm sure they're happy to do so. Meanwhile, students from other states attending Louisiana universities aren't offered this program. They have to pay out-of-state costs like all others. Those students have much higher success. I am a product of local college education. I was bullied in high school to such a degree that I dropped out. The military wanted a high school diploma as a minimum, but a short-lived program allowed me in if I had high ASVAB scores. After my eight years of service, I attended our local city college, then transferred to our local University. I applied to all the state universities and was accepted to all of them. I only attended the local university because I didn't want to move. I used the GI bill and Navy College Fund to pay for most of my school. The GI Bill is a pay-in program that everyone has an opportunity to contribute to if they plan on college, while the college fund is a benefit earned for serving the military in a highly needed field. See the word 'earned?' For extra
money, the schools employed me as a math tutor. I also tutored children struggling with math at all levels. It paid pretty well and I got through just fine. I didn't need socialism to get through college. I earned my way, as did most graduates in the US.

Most people in the USA cannot afford to get sick, being either
under-insured or having no health insurance at all. And having

That problem is unrelated to our government and its systems. It's a symptom of individual potential and cultural norms. Socialists don't agree, but not everyone has potential.

to repay those college loans at exorbitant interest rates puts
them even further in debt.

The college loan problem is a complicated one but there are many solutions that
exist. Employing a failed ethos won't help a failed system.

Talk about the land of the free, and the home of the brave.
More like the place to die young, as nobody is able to grow old.

Just once I'd like to hear a leftist speak their mind and not repeat speaking points that they've heard from others.

Richard is German. I am Cajun. Not sure who or what you are.

Great way of framing that statement. 'Not sure who or what you are.' Just a tinge of dismissal there.

Hillary Clinton received almost 3 million votes more than her
nearest opponent. Yet the loser was declared the winner. Goes
to show you how screwed up US presidential elections are.

Oh okay, you don't know how our election system works. Fair enough. Trump slayed Clinton in 2016. Most people I know saw it coming a mile away. Hillary is one of the least electable candidates in history. It wasn't a 49-state slaughter the likes of Reagan, but it was an ass whoopin'. These three million extra votes you tout came out of ballot harvesting (easy fraud) that was conducted in Los Angeles and New York City. This is well documented but, big picture. That isn't an example of a coutnry-wide trend pointing to a flaw of the system, but more of a regional symptom. So, when we talk about election fraud, 2016 is a solid lesson that'll go into the history books. The beauitiful
truth about our election system, despite the fraud, is the concept. Our framers
knew the history about past failures of pure democracies of dead governments. I'm sure you know the cliche of knowing ones' history and not repeating it. The
entire country had a voice.

I thank our constitution for having an electoral system.

By the way, whole words are disappearing when multimail word wraps my posts. Don't think I didn't notice your insertions of these missing words in your responses. That's a subtle example of my earlier statement about the left's self-appointed arrogance and condescending tone when debating people with whom they disagree.

... Visit me at: gopher://gcpp.world
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Bj!rn Felten wrote to Daniel <=-

When you focus on minute
details that don't equate to anything beyond an emotional response, you completely miss the big picture because you're looking only through a microscope.

That's OK. Just don't forget to inject your daily doses of bleach
and you'll be fine.

You're a funny guy. Didn't your mom teach you not to lie? I know we're on a bbs
echo, but let's get real here.

Bill Clinton walked on the moon. If I continue to repeat this false statement, it won't be more true.

Also, context is a very important thing that leftists don't conceive as important. Do you ever see things in its full context? Or do you just want to hate all the time? You must be fun at the bar.


... Visit me at: gopher://gcpp.world
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That's OK. Just don't forget to inject your daily doses of bleach
and you'll be fine.

You're a funny guy. Didn't your mom teach you not to lie? I know we're
on a bbs echo, but let's get real here.

So that's how you Trumpsters explain what the world is laughing at now? No longer the obvious lie that it was "a sarcastic question"? I see...




..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Daniel,

The state of Louisiana offers free college tuition for its residents. >LL>The state of Louisiana used to offer free medical care as well, until >LL>the last Republican governor dismantled the hospital system that had >LL>worked so well for decades.

Thank you for this example of socialism as a failed ethos.

Works great. A wealthy oil tycoon got it all started, decades ago.
The state legislature then expanded the program to what it is today.
No politician (except those who are suicidal) wants to cut it.

[..]

The colleges are pocketing the remainder of the monies and I'm sure they're
happy to do so. Meanwhile, students from other states attending Louisiana universities aren't offered this program.

The state of Georgia has a similar program. Also works great.
No politician (except those who are suicidal) wants to cut it.

Most people in the USA cannot afford to get sick, being either >LL>under-insured or having no health insurance at all. And having

That problem is unrelated to our government and its systems.

Access to quality health care is the first of all human rights.
Countries with universal health care have healthier citizens.
That is why so many people in the USA are suffering needlessly.

It's a symptom of individual potential and cultural norms.

If something is not affordable, it is not accessible. Denying
people the most basic of human rights (the right to life) is beyond
sick and despicable.

Socialists don't agree, but not everyone has potential.

Everything should be free.

to repay those college loans at exorbitant interest rates puts
them even further in debt.

The college loan problem is a complicated one but there are many solutions
that exist. Employing a failed ethos won't help a failed system.

The system of forcing people to repay loans at exorbitant rates
is beyond criminal. The solution is to forgive the loans and allow
folks to resume their lives with a clean slate.

Talk about the land of the free, and the home of the brave.
More like the place to die young, as nobody is able to grow old.

Just once I'd like to hear a leftist speak their mind and not repeat
speaking points that they've heard from others.

My name is not Bernie Sanders. And neither is it AOC.
I am not affiliated with any political party. And I am
not a socialist. So what am I? I only know the ascii
values of the letters of my name add up to 666. I'll let
you and others try to figure out what that means.

Richard is German. I am Cajun. Not sure who or what you are.

Great way of framing that statement. 'Not sure who or what you are.' Just a
tinge of dismissal there.

I am not American. Same as Richard.

Hillary Clinton received almost 3 million votes more than her
nearest opponent. Yet the loser was declared the winner. Goes
to show you how screwed up US presidential elections are.

Oh okay, you don't know how our election system works. Fair enough.

The loser won the last election. With help from Russia.
That makes the "winner" an illegitimate president.

[..]

The entire country had a voice.

Vladimir Putin had a voice.

I thank our constitution for having an electoral system.

The constitution was subverted.

By the way, whole words are disappearing when multimail word wraps my posts.
Don't think I didn't notice your insertions of these missing words in your responses. That's a subtle example of my earlier statement about the left's self-appointed arrogance and condescending tone when debating people with whom they disagree.

Don't look at me.
I don't use multimail.
And I don't take orders from Vladimir Putin.

--Lee

--
I Take A Sheet In The Pool

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
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Thank you for this example of socialism as a failed ethos.

Thank you for not giving even *one* *single* of filed ethos. As usual with Donald. DUH!



..

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Lee Lofaso wrote to Daniel <=-

Hello Daniel,

The state of Louisiana offers free college tuition for its residents.
The state of Louisiana used to offer free medical care as well, until
the last Republican governor dismantled the hospital system that had
worked so well for decades.

Thank you for this example of socialism as a failed ethos.

Works great. A wealthy oil tycoon got it all started, decades ago.
The state legislature then expanded the program to what it is today.

I suppose a socialist considers all failures as success. I'm done with you, the
deception has infiltrated your mind to the grain. Have a blast, wherever you live and we're glad you're not a voter here.


... Visit me at: gopher://gcpp.world
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Hello Daniel,

The state of Louisiana offers free college tuition for its residents.
The state of Louisiana used to offer free medical care as well, until
the last Republican governor dismantled the hospital system that had
worked so well for decades.

Thank you for this example of socialism as a failed ethos.

Works great. A wealthy oil tycoon got it all started, decades ago.
The state legislature then expanded the program to what it is today.

I suppose a socialist considers all failures as success. I'm done with

you,

the deception has infiltrated your mind to the grain. Have a blast, wherever lyou ive and we're glad you're not a voter here.

Government provides, business denies.

--Lee

--
Nobody Beats Our Meat

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Government provides, business denies.

In Daniel- and Nick-land tax payer money should go all away into businesses. But you knew that already, yes?




..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Bj�rn,

That's OK. Just don't forget to inject your daily doses of bleach
and you'll be fine.

You're a funny guy. Didn't your mom teach you not to lie? I know we're
on a bbs echo, but let's get real here.

So that's how you Trumpsters explain what the world is laughing at now?

No

longer the obvious lie that it was "a sarcastic question"? I see...

No. I do not believe you do.

"The ideal tyranny is that which is ignorantly self-administered
by its victims. The most perfect slaves are, therefore, those which
blissfully and unawaredly enslave themselves." ~Dresden James

Now do you understand?

--Lee

--
Big Or Small We Lay Them All

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Bj-rn Felten wrote to Daniel <=-

That's OK. Just don't forget to inject your daily doses of bleach
and you'll be fine.

He's afraid of needles. Clorox Chewables are the way to go.


... Remember quiet evenings
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Lee Lofaso wrote to Daniel <=-

Hello Daniel,

The state of Louisiana offers free college tuition for its residents.
The state of Louisiana used to offer free medical care as well, until
the last Republican governor dismantled the hospital system that had
worked so well for decades.

Thank you for this example of socialism as a failed ethos.

Works great. A wealthy oil tycoon got it all started, decades ago.
The state legislature then expanded the program to what it is today.

I suppose a socialist considers all failures as success. I'm done with

you,

the deception has infiltrated your mind to the grain. Have a blast, wherever lyou ive and we're glad you're not a voter here.

Government provides, business denies.

History shows otherwise. Have you tried living in Cuba? You'd love it.

... Visit me at: gopher://gcpp.world
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He's afraid of needles. Clorox Chewables are the way to go.

LOL! I can sympathize with that. I'm not all that keen on having needles pricked into me.

So drinking soluables seems much better for those people.



..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Kurt,

That's OK. Just don't forget to inject your daily doses of bleach
and you'll be fine.

He's afraid of needles. Clorox Chewables are the way to go.

There's always the other end.
No.
Don't even think that ...

--Lee

--
We Put Big Loads In Tight Places

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Bj�rn,

Government provides, business denies.

In Daniel- and Nick-land tax payer money should go all away into

businesses.

But you knew that already, yes?

Well, with nobody around who has anything left to spend ...

--Lee

--
Change Is Cumming

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Eric,

The state of Louisiana offers free college tuition for its residents.
The state of Louisiana used to offer free medical care as well, until
the last Republican governor dismantled the hospital system that had
worked so well for decades.

Thank you for this example of socialism as a failed ethos.

Works great. A wealthy oil tycoon got it all started, decades ago.
The state legislature then expanded the program to what it is today.

I suppose a socialist considers all failures as success. I'm done EO>with

you, the deception has infiltrated your mind to the grain. EO>Have a

blast,

wherever lyou ive and we're glad you're not a voter EO>here.

Government provides, business denies.

History shows otherwise. Have you tried living in Cuba? You'd love it.

Been there. Done that. Best sand bar on the planet.

--Lee

--
We Make Your Wet Dreams Come True

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
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Re: Psych Report Needed
By: Lee Lofaso to Eric Oulashin on Fri May 01 2020 12:28 pm

Been there. Done that. Best sand bar on the planet.

I didn't write what you are replying to, so I'm not sure why your reply is directed at me.

Eric
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
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Hello Eric,

Been there. Done that. Best sand bar on the planet.

I didn't write what you are replying to, so I'm not sure why your reply

is

directed at me.

At the bottom of the page was a node number with your name on it ...

--Lee

--
Often Licked, Never Beaten

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Re: Psych Report Needed
By: Lee Lofaso to Eric Oulashin on Sat May 02 2020 04:52:49

I didn't write what you are replying to, so I'm not sure why your reply is directed at me.

At the bottom of the page was a node number with your name on it ...

--Lee

--
Often Licked, Never Beaten
--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

well, look at that... this node number has Björn Felten's node number on it... signature notwithstanding, it must be Björn that wrote it and not some fake entity supposedly known as Lee Lofaso... see how that works? GoodJob!<tm> thanks for playing!


)\/(ark
--- SBBSecho 3.11-Linux
* Origin: SouthEast Star Mail HUB - SESTAR (1:3634/12)

Hello mark,

[..]

well, look at that... this node number has Bj�rn Felten's node number

Amazing, isn't it? Sysops own node numbers! Who'd a thunk it?

--Lee

--
Sleep With Someone New

--- MesNews/1.08.05.00-gb
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Re: Psych Report Needed
By: Lee Lofaso to mark lewis on Sat May 02 2020 11:48 pm

Amazing, isn't it? Sysops own node numbers! Who'd a thunk it?

I've had my node number for a while, the lease is almost up on it.
--- SBBSecho 3.10-Win32
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On 27/04/2020 15:26, 1340/7 wrote:

; May I ask if you live in the US?

 BF>>     Good heavens no. I couldn't live in a country where all politicians
 BF>> are bribed.

Wow, absolute rubbish. There's right and wrong. And then, there's 'not

even

wrong.' You fit in the 'not even wrong' category. Your simple sentence

said

quite a bit, believe it or not.

I'm so very glad you don't live here. It's bad enough that the liberals

have

turned our education system into a joke. We have a growing population of

kids

who think earth is flat. So we can live without people like you.

I'm sure that Björn is absolutely heartbroken about your dismissal.

I know this may shock you but not everyone in the world wants to live in USA.

--
Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68
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David Drummond wrote to Daniel <=-

On 27/04/2020 15:26, 1340/7 wrote:

D>> May I ask if you live in the US?

BF>> Good heavens no. I couldn't live in a country where all

politicians

BF>> are bribed.

Wow, absolute rubbish. There's right and wrong. And then, there's 'not

even

wrong.' You fit in the 'not even wrong' category. Your simple sentence

said

quite a bit, believe it or not.

I'm so very glad you don't live here. It's bad enough that the liberals

have

turned our education system into a joke. We have a growing population of

kids

who think earth is flat. So we can live without people like you.

I'm sure that Bj.rn is absolutely heartbroken about your dismissal.

Interesting. Was this outlandish comment designed to hurt me or is this your way of dismissing me? Both?

I know this may shock you but not everyone in the world wants to live
in USA.

It's not shocking at all. That's your right, whereverthat is, and I'm delighted
you are living in a country that makes you happy. It's a sign of nationalism and hate that drives someone to discuss personal disdain for other countries in
a public forum. It's mindblowing, especially when I hear it from those on the left. You know, the side who falsely self-assigns values such as openmindedness, acceptance, unity, etc.

Daniel Traechin
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On 5/05/2020 03:32, 1340/7 wrote:

; I'm so very glad you don't live here. It's bad enough that the liberals have
; turned our education system into a joke. We have a growing population of kids
; who think earth is flat. So we can live without people like you.

 DD>> I'm sure that Bj.rn is absolutely heartbroken about your dismissal.

Interesting. Was this outlandish comment designed to hurt me or is this

your

way of dismissing me? Both?

Probably both. Indifference to your opinion may also be in there.

 DD>> I know this may shock you but not everyone in the world wants to live
 DD>> in USA.

It's not shocking at all. That's your right, whereverthat is, and I'm

delighted

you are living in a country that makes you happy. It's a sign of

nationalism

and hate that drives someone to discuss personal disdain for other

countries in

a public forum. It's mindblowing, especially when I hear it from those on

the

left. You know, the side who falsely self-assigns values such as openmindedness, acceptance, unity, etc.

Nationalism is one of the great faults of the modern world. When the one world government comes into its own, when we're all pulling for humankind as a whole instead of competing on silly patriotic fronts, the world will be a better place for all.

By being glad that Björn doesn't live in USA shows how open minded and accepting you are?

BTW - I am not "on the left". I am right handed. I have no political affiliations what-so-ever. I do not support any political party. I do not even vote for any of them (as most Fidonetters already know, I am not actually entitled to vote).

--
Regards
David

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* Origin: Bucca, QLD (3:640/305)

Re: Psych Report Needed
By: David Drummond to Daniel on Thu May 07 2020 08:12 am

Nationalism is one of the great faults of the modern world. When the one world government comes into its own, when we're all pulling for humankind as a whole instead of competing on silly patriotic fronts, the world will be a better place for all.

By being glad that Björn doesn't live in USA shows how open minded and accepting you are?

BTW - I am not "on the left". I am right handed. I have no political affiliations what-so-ever. I do not support any political party. I do not even vote for any of them (as most Fidonetters already know, I am not actually entitled to vote).

--
Regards
David

Do people really believe that a one world government is workable, or even desirable? This kind of belief seems to be a peculiarly Western belief, which arises with more decadent thinkers. There is no humanity pulling all together,
this should be painfully obvious now, and if people still believe in this, they
will be eaten alive by those with stronger group loyalties.

I would rather humanity in distinct nations, a patchwork world of seperate peoples with their own culture, their own home, with ownership over their own nation, than the nightmare dystopia of a technocratic one-world mega-beaurocracy.

This sooner this foolish idea that it is in our destiny to form "one world", the better.
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Hello David!

07 May 20 08:12, David Drummond wrote to Daniel:

Nationalism is one of the great faults of the modern world.

A true statement, and truly understated.


Regards,
Gerrit

... 8:21AM up 108 days, 22:18, 7 users, load averages: 0.64, 0.46, 0.43

--- Msged/BSD 6.1.2
* Origin: Shock to the System (2:240/12)

Hello Dennisk!

07 May 20 12:21, Dennisk wrote to David Drummond:

This sooner this foolish idea that it is in our destiny to form "one world",
the better.

We'll see how evolution works on this. Lately, "the world" is changing so fast that it'll probably take some time to catch up. Running the modern world with the mechanics of a stone-age society in our minds won't work forever.

Meanwhile, can you come up with anything you like that nationalism has achieved for us (or just you) since, say, the French Revolution?


Regards,
Gerrit

... 8:23AM up 108 days, 22:20, 7 users, load averages: 0.38, 0.43, 0.41

--- Msged/BSD 6.1.2
* Origin: America, America the western dream is gone (2:240/12)

Gerrit Kuehn wrote to Dennisk <=-

Hello Dennisk!

07 May 20 12:21, Dennisk wrote to David Drummond:

This sooner this foolish idea that it is in our destiny to form "one world",
the better.

We'll see how evolution works on this. Lately, "the world" is changing
so fast that it'll probably take some time to catch up. Running the
modern world with the mechanics of a stone-age society in our minds
won't work forever.

Meanwhile, can you come up with anything you like that nationalism has achieved for us (or just you) since, say, the French Revolution?

Regards,
Gerrit

... 8:23AM up 108 days, 22:20, 7 users, load averages: 0.38, 0.43,
0.41

--- Msged/BSD 6.1.2
* Origin: America, America the western dream is gone (2:240/12)

Evolution works on groups, so if you don't work for your group, you are out. There is a conflict between ideals and the hard, physical reality of nature.

As for what has Nationalism done? Well, the assertion of national sovreignty liberated many countries from their colonial masters, it helped drive the break
up of Communist states and helped drive a political alternative to monarchy and
absolutism. I would also argue that Nation states based on heredity are best situated to offer people freedom, rather than "propositional" states, which must impose their propositions on the population.

You may be under the impression that Nationalism is just Nazi Germany and Mussolini, but that position doesn't hold water. I take Nationalism in its literal sense, that is, the organisation of political and economic insitutions around a nation of people, FOR a nation of people. That gives the institutions
and economic a locus, a focus, a definite people to which they must serve. When a state becomes an empire, it is not longer a nation state.

Otherwise, you just have beaurocracies at the top, with the people just being interchangeable cogs, who serve the institution. One must always ask the quesiton, who is the government FOR?? We have in the past had systems where the instution was the purpose of life (monarchies, empires, Communism), but a system, such as that explicitely created when the USA was founded, that the country exists by the people, of the people, FOR the people, is the best system
that we have. And that essentially is a Nationalistic position, because it is a recognition that we, the identifiable group of people, create the state for *our* posterity and wellbeing.

What is the alternative? Beaurocracies at the top, where the instution, not a people, is the focus of human enterprise? Where we exist to serve some abstract entity, rather than those entities serving us?

Lastly, in my lifetime, the number of nation states has increased, not decreased. Countries have broken apart, some have gained independence. I haven't seen any mergers, and experiments such as the EU, are looking very shaky indeed.

... Dennis Katsonis
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Gerrit Kuehn wrote to David Drummond <=-

07 May 20 08:12, David Drummond wrote to Daniel:

Nationalism is one of the great faults of the modern world.

A true statement, and truly understated.

Modern?


... What are you really thinking about just now?
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Nationalism is one of the great faults of the modern world.

A true statement, and truly understated.

Modern?

Depends on where you set the limit.

How about: when the apes *imagined* that they understood the difference between black and brown apes?




..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello Kurt!

07 May 20 07:03, Kurt Weiske wrote to Gerrit Kuehn:

Nationalism is one of the great faults of the modern world.

A true statement, and truly understated.

Modern?

Depends on what you call "modern". I'd say over here in Europe nationalism as we know it today started around the time of the French Revolution to have something to replace the king.


Regards,
Gerrit

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Hello Dennisk!

07 May 20 22:50, Dennisk wrote to Gerrit Kuehn:

Evolution works on groups, so if you don't work for your group, you
are out.

So where does it say how large this group has to be? In previous times the typical group size people lived in was something like 100 people (give or leave 50). That's the size where you can still know everybody personally. Beyond that size, the game is different. However, plenty of our mind is still working in this archaic mode, and the more crowded and the more connected and entwined the world gets, the lesser this fits reality and life.

There is a conflict between ideals and the hard, physical reality of nature.

An interesting note here might be that we all have ideals, we all have ethics, religion and so on. These are there to make large groups of people work. Without them, our societies would fall apart into clans or tribes of around 100 people like it used to be.

As for what has Nationalism done? Well, the assertion of national sovreignty
liberated many countries from their colonial masters, it helped drive
the break
up of Communist states and helped drive a political alternative to monarchy and
absolutism. I would also argue that Nation states based on heredity
are best
situated to offer people freedom, rather than "propositional" states, which
must impose their propositions on the population.

That's one side of the coin, although I don't see how you are going to proof you last statement, but well.

You may be under the impression that Nationalism is just Nazi Germany
and
Mussolini, but that position doesn't hold water. I take Nationalism
in its
literal sense, that is, the organisation of political and economic insitutions
around a nation of people, FOR a nation of people. That gives the institutions
and economic a locus, a focus, a definite people to which they must
serve.

You're able to think like this because you live in a nation that hasn't been plagued by bloody wars for centuries. Wars that have primarily been caused and fed by nationalism of one or the other colour. Even the colonialism you said above to be ended by nationalism is usually driven by it.

country exists by the people, of the people, FOR the people, is the
best system
that we have. And that essentially is a Nationalistic position,
because it is
a recognition that we, the identifiable group of people, create the
state for
*our* posterity and wellbeing.

Limited to people living in that particular country and given their share in wellbeing. Wellbeing for people in a system like that is essentially created by other people being not-so-well off. These can be outside your country, or even inside.
A nation is not an island, and it nowadays hardly can exist without the rest of the world around it. That's part of the game change I was talking about earlier. The whole planet has become so "global" in the 20th and 21st century, why should we run it with concepts mainly invented in the 18th/19th century? Concepts that /brought/ us wars, racism, colonialism, and slavery (to name just a few) in dimensions never seen before.

Nationalism requires to divide people into more or less arbitrary groups, you said it to be based on "heredity". What sense does that make? I can look back in my ancestry, and just by going back 4 generations I'll find people from more or less all over Europe. So what sense does it make that I am "German", a nation mainly invented about 150 years ago by the warlords of that time on their recently conquered territory that used to consist of around 40 countries 200 years ago (and hundreds of these before that)?

What is the alternative? Beaurocracies at the top, where the
instution, not a
people, is the focus of human enterprise? Where we exist to serve
some
abstract entity, rather than those entities serving us?

Nope, but that is just /how/ a country is run, not /why/.

Lastly, in my lifetime, the number of nation states has increased, not decreased. Countries have broken apart, some have gained
independence. I
haven't seen any mergers, and experiments such as the EU, are looking
very
shaky indeed.

How old are you? FRG and GDR merged in 1990. North and South Vietnam merged in 1976.

But "mergers" are usually driven by a powerful player (see my comment on German history above), often under the claim of "forming a nation". Europe has seen plenty of it, and the EU has been formed to overcome exactly that. Up to now it worked out pretty well on that part.
Russia merging with Crimera, or China with with Tibet or HongKong (or maybe soon with Taiwan) are perfect examples of the road nationalism goes.


Regards,
Gerrit

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Hello Bj�rn,

Nationalism is one of the great faults of the modern world.

A true statement, and truly understated.

Modern?

Depends on where you set the limit.

How about: when the apes *imagined* that they understood the difference between black and brown apes?

Me Tarzan. You Jane.

--Lee

--
Get Her Wet Here

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Gerrit Kuehn wrote to Dennisk <=-

Hello Dennisk!

07 May 20 22:50, Dennisk wrote to Gerrit Kuehn:

Evolution works on groups, so if you don't work for your group, you
are out.

So where does it say how large this group has to be? In previous times
the typical group size people lived in was something like 100 people
(give or leave 50). That's the size where you can still know everybody personally. Beyond that size, the game is different. However, plenty of our mind is still working in this archaic mode, and the more crowded
and the more connected and entwined the world gets, the lesser this
fits reality and life.

I don't know exactly, but 150 is based on personal interactions with no political/social infrastructure or technology. I've worked in companies with more than 150 people on site, and human society has existed in groups larger than 150 from the neolitic era. These things sort themselves out organically. We can see the China must use force and coercion to keep the country together, otherwise it would fracture. Clearly here, we can say that China as a political entity is encompassing more people than it should as some, such as the Tibetans, would prefer to be under their own political entity. Same for the Kurds. One could argue that the USA itself is seperate nations held together.

The problem I have, is this assumption of "archaic". Such a statement needs explanation, otherwise it is just an arbitrary assertion, a prejudice. We also
eat and love, these are "archaic" too. We have families, this is also "archaic". To use the term in a negative manner and to imply that an idea must
go, one has to make a case for why it is no longer relevant. The Western belief in the inevitability of an "one world" seems rooted in fancy, in fiction
and idealism, rather than a sober analysis of reality. It is not an empricial observation. What needs to happen, is usually different to what is assumed would happen.

There is a conflict between ideals and the hard, physical reality of nature.

An interesting note here might be that we all have ideals, we all have ethics, religion and so on. These are there to make large groups of
people work. Without them, our societies would fall apart into clans or tribes of around 100 people like it used to be.

I agree. I do not advocate tribalism. However, these religions, these large groups need some sort of anchor, some uniting commonality that makes the enterprise valid. At some level, I need to be able to work with others and we must have some agreement as to whom the political/economic enterprise is for. If we are completely nationless, without group belonging, this is hard to do.

As for what has Nationalism done? Well, the assertion of national sovreignty
liberated many countries from their colonial masters, it helped drive
the break
up of Communist states and helped drive a political alternative to
monarchy and
absolutism. I would also argue that Nation states based on heredity
are best
situated to offer people freedom, rather than "propositional" states,
which
must impose their propositions on the population.

That's one side of the coin, although I don't see how you are going to proof you last statement, but well.

If membership of your country is based on shared principles only, then you cannot be free to disagree or change, because then you are no longer "one of us". If membership is based on shared national identity, then you CAN disagree, but you are still "one of us". The political division in the USA is a good example of where shared values are deemed more important than shared nationality. It is clearly toxic. No longer is your neighbour still "one of us" just because he happens to vote Trump or Biden.

I have observed that the more and more our society talks of "Values" being what
unite us rather than shared nationality, the more and more laws and limitations
to speech are brought in and more and more retribution against "wrongthink" there is. That is not freedom.

You may be under the impression that Nationalism is just Nazi Germany
and
Mussolini, but that position doesn't hold water. I take Nationalism
in its
literal sense, that is, the organisation of political and economic insitutions
around a nation of people, FOR a nation of people. That gives the institutions
and economic a locus, a focus, a definite people to which they must
serve.

You're able to think like this because you live in a nation that hasn't been plagued by bloody wars for centuries. Wars that have primarily
been caused and fed by nationalism of one or the other colour. Even the colonialism you said above to be ended by nationalism is usually driven
by it.

Perhaps. And I don't deny that it can't turn pathological, and certaintly national chauvinism IS a pathology, this idea of national superiority. But what I'm saying, is not so much that ending nationalism is not desirable, but more not practical. Much in the same way that removing money isn't so much not
desirable, but not practical. We certaintly can work towards better political and cultural systems, but the idea that humanity will dissolve into one people is dangerous, and it simply will not happen.

country exists by the people, of the people, FOR the people, is the
best system
that we have. And that essentially is a Nationalistic position,
because it is
a recognition that we, the identifiable group of people, create the
state for
*our* posterity and wellbeing.

Limited to people living in that particular country and given their
share in wellbeing. Wellbeing for people in a system like that is essentially created by other people being not-so-well off. These can be outside your country, or even inside.
A nation is not an island, and it nowadays hardly can exist without the rest of the world around it. That's part of the game change I was
talking about earlier. The whole planet has become so "global" in the
20th and 21st century, why should we run it with concepts mainly
invented in the 18th/19th century? Concepts that /brought/ us wars, racism, colonialism, and slavery (to name just a few) in dimensions
never seen before.

Nationalism requires to divide people into more or less arbitrary
groups, you said it to be based on "heredity". What sense does that
make? I can look back in my ancestry, and just by going back 4
generations I'll find people from more or less all over Europe. So what sense does it make that I am "German", a nation mainly invented about
150 years ago by the warlords of that time on their recently conquered territory that used to consist of around 40 countries 200 years ago
(and hundreds of these before that)?

What is the alternative? Beaurocracies at the top, where the
instution, not a
people, is the focus of human enterprise? Where we exist to serve
some
abstract entity, rather than those entities serving us?

Nope, but that is just /how/ a country is run, not /why/.

Lastly, in my lifetime, the number of nation states has increased, not decreased. Countries have broken apart, some have gained
independence. I
haven't seen any mergers, and experiments such as the EU, are looking
very
shaky indeed.

How old are you? FRG and GDR merged in 1990. North and South Vietnam merged in 1976.

But "mergers" are usually driven by a powerful player (see my comment
on German history above), often under the claim of "forming a nation". Europe has seen plenty of it, and the EU has been formed to overcome exactly that. Up to now it worked out pretty well on that part.
Russia merging with Crimera, or China with with Tibet or HongKong (or maybe soon with Taiwan) are perfect examples of the road nationalism
goes.

China is an empire I would argue. The Han Chinese are a nation, but they have incorporated others. But the very fact that people even say Tibet, or recognise that it exist, means there is some type of Tibetan nation, even if they don't have a state.

Jews didn't have a country until the 1940's, but they clearly existed as a people before that. Kurds don't have a state, but they clearly exist as an identifiable group. If nations didn't exist, these terms would be met with confusion, but they aren't, so these terms mean something. There clearly are Kurds, and if they had a state which encompassed them, that would be a nation-state. Now, it is possible for them to propser within a larger political apparatus, as long as that apparatus acknowledges and protects their existence.

And EU, which acknowledged and protected the existence of the identifiable groups within it, could function. But all to often, this idea of a one world also means the dissolution of these groups.

Regards,
Gerrit

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... Dennis Katsonis
--- MultiMail/Linux v0.52
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Depends on what you call "modern". I'd say over here in Europe
nationalism as we know it today started around the time of the French Revolution to have something to replace the king.

I'm looking forward to the times when our royal household will be declared useless.

"What? Work for money?"

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 4
* Origin: If you build it he will come (2:292/854)

On 7/05/2020 12:21, 3633/416 wrote:

Do people really believe that a one world government is workable, or even desirable?

As long as it wasn't the Yanks or ScoMo running it, it could be a positive thing. What we have now is not getting us anywhere.

This kind of belief seems to be a peculiarly Western belief, which
arises with more decadent thinkers.

Could it be that Westerners have a more "global" view unlike say the tribes in PNG who haven't met anyone outside their jungle valley?

  There is no humanity pulling all together, this should be painfully

obvious now, and if people still believe in

this,

And that is the problem with the modern world (and the older ones before it). Until we can all get along with each other for the common good of all we will continue to fight among each other, kill each other and generally fate humankind to its demise.

they will be eaten alive by those with stronger group loyalties.

The "world" out weighs those fractious groups.

I would rather humanity in distinct nations, a patchwork world of seperate peoples with their own culture, their own home, with ownership over
their own nation, than the nightmare dystopia of a technocratic one-world mega-beaurocracy.

And still fighting each other at the drop of a hat? Obviously there is some work to do on the administrative part of the "one world" plan.

This sooner this foolish idea that it is in our destiny to form "one world",

the better.

No, fuck that! I'm coming your way as soon as they let me travel to wipe out everyone in your state!

See how dedicated I am about the "oneness"?

--
Regards
David

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On 8/05/2020 08:45, 2292/854 wrote:

Depends on what you call "modern". I'd say over here in Europe
nationalism as we know it today started around the time of the French
Revolution to have something to replace the king.

I'm looking forward to the times when our royal household will be
declared useless.

"What? Work for money?"

Best do away with all of our politicians too then.

--
Regards
David

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David Drummond wrote to Dennisk <=-

On 7/05/2020 12:21, 3633/416 wrote:

Do people really believe that a one world government is workable, or even desirable?

As long as it wasn't the Yanks or ScoMo running it, it could be a
positive thing. What we have now is not getting us anywhere.

There is a longer list if people I wouldn't want running it. In fact, I can't think of anyone I would want in charge.

This kind of belief seems to be a peculiarly Western belief, which
arises with more decadent thinkers.

Could it be that Westerners have a more "global" view unlike say the tribes in PNG who haven't met anyone outside their jungle valley?

But they don't. They THINK they do. Most Westerners are ignorant of how the rest of the world works and thinks. People in the major cities don't even relate to people who live in rural areas only a couple of hundred kilometers away.

+� There is no humanity pulling all together, this should be painfully

obvious now, and if people still believe in

this,

And that is the problem with the modern world (and the older ones
before it). Until we can all get along with each other for the common
good of all we will continue to fight among each other, kill each other and generally fate humankind to its demise.

We fight for resources and dominance. At the moment, the USA and China are heading towards war, because China wants to be the dominant power. Good luck convincing China that it is not their turn to dominate, that they should play nice and share. China isn't going to go for that, not on your life. Do you think they aren't playing us?

they will be eaten alive by those with stronger group loyalties.

The "world" out weighs those fractious groups.

I would rather humanity in distinct nations, a patchwork world of seperate peoples with their own culture, their own home, with ownership over
their own nation, than the nightmare dystopia of a technocratic one-world mega-beaurocracy.

And still fighting each other at the drop of a hat? Obviously there is some work to do on the administrative part of the "one world" plan.

This sooner this foolish idea that it is in our destiny to form "one world",

the better.

No, fuck that! I'm coming your way as soon as they let me travel to
wipe out everyone in your state!

What for? How does it follow that me thinking that some African nation has the
right to self-determination and self-governance, and the right to maintain their culture and uniqueness, necessitates me wiping them out?

It makes no sense. People who believe that nations have the right to continue aren't the ones who want to wipe them out.

See how dedicated I am about the "oneness"?

--
Regards
David

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... Dennis Katsonis
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I'm looking forward to the times when our royal household will be
declared useless.

"What? Work for money?"

Best do away with all of our politicians too then.

That's half of the country's work force ... well ... force.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 4
* Origin: If you build it he will come (2:292/854)

I'm looking forward to the times when our royal household will be
declared useless.

The president alternative doesn't seem all that appealing nowadays. We have a rather scary example across the pond...



..

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I'm looking forward to the times when our royal household will be
declared useless.

The president alternative doesn't seem all that appealing nowadays. We
have a rather scary example across the pond...

That is an undisputable fact.

The person in that office overthere is granted too much power and can rule by decree in a political system which is not geared to change that.

There is a word for that.

When one thinks about it then the parallels between that country and North Korea are striking, they also have a supreme leader who rules without being challenged.

But a monarchy? Our royals are related to a person who ranks very high on the hitparade of greatest massmurderers ever and they now still bask in the wealth reaped from the backs of 12 million or more murdered black people ...

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 4
* Origin: If you build it he will come (2:292/854)

But a monarchy? Our royals are related to a person who ranks very high
on the hitparade of greatest massmurderers ever and they now still bask
in the wealth reaped from the backs of 12 million or more murdered black people ...

LOL! Point taken. The Swedish royalty have been rather civil since we got one of Napoleons generals as king 200 years ago.

And, of course monarchy is a blast from the past. But, just as democracy is the worst form of Government except for all the others, so is monarchy IMHO. If for nothing else, the royal families keep megalomaniac presidents away. That alone is worth the extra millions in tax money.



..

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Hello Ward!

08 May 20 08:45, Ward Dossche wrote to Gerrit Kuehn:

Depends on what you call "modern". I'd say over here in Europe
nationalism as we know it today started around the time of the French
Revolution to have something to replace the king.

I'm looking forward to the times when our royal household will be declared useless.

Your royal household is somewhat special and was established after the French Revolution (and your king was /elected/ as 3rd choice after the others didn't accept). So I guess you wanted it this way, and you certainly could decide to take a different route.


Regards,
Gerrit

... 2:31PM up 112 days, 4:28, 7 users, load averages: 0.53, 0.48, 0.42

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Hello Bj�rn,

I'm looking forward to the times when our royal household will be
declared useless.

The president alternative doesn't seem all that appealing nowadays. We

have

a rather scary example across the pond...

The vice president's closest aide.
The president's valet.
The president's daughter's very best friend forever.
How many other White House staffers unknown.
None of them wearing a mask.
All testing positive for coronavirus.

Meanwhile, Joe Biden showed the world he has a mask.
And is still hiding in the basement, waiting until it
is safe to come out and play.

--Lee

--
We Make Your Wet Dreams Come True

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Hello Ward,

I'm looking forward to the times when our royal household will be
declared useless.

The president alternative doesn't seem all that appealing nowadays. BF>We

have a rather scary example across the pond...

That is an undisputable fact.

Well, it is true his hair is quite a mess. Not that it is real hair.

The person in that office overthere is granted too much power and can

rule

by decree in a political system which is not geared to change that.

The presidency (in the US) is a very weak office. Had you bothered
to read the US Constitution, you would have known that.

There is a word for that.

Are you calling Donald J. Trump a weakling?

When one thinks about it then the parallels between that country and

North

Korea are striking, they also have a supreme leader who rules without

being

challenged.

The US Constitution only specifies the creation of the Supreme
Court, leaving the creation (and dissolution) of other federal courts
to Congress' discretion.

We all know what happened the last time the Congress challenged
Donald J. Trump. The Senate held a trial, without calling witnesses,
and declared Trump a saint (or something to that effect).

But a monarchy? Our royals are related to a person who ranks very high on the hitparade of greatest massmurderers ever and they now still bask in

the

wealth reaped from the backs of 12 million or more murdered black people ...

Up until Abraham Lincoln, almost all our presidents owned black
people as property. These are the people who made America great.

--Lee

--
If it doesn't get all over the place, it doesn't belong in your face.

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On 11/05/2020 05:18, 2203/2 wrote:

Up until Abraham Lincoln, almost all our presidents owned black
people as property.

I was under the impression that he had owned (black) slaves as well.

--
Regards
David

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68
* Origin: Bucca, QLD (3:640/305)

Gerrit,

Your royal household is somewhat special and was established after the French Revolution (and your king was /elected/ as 3rd choice after the others didn't accept). So I guess you wanted it this way, and you
certainly could decide to take a different route.

Long after the French revolution ... close to 40 years after.

I hope you won't take any offence over this but the current generation of Belgians is as much to blame for turning this country into a kingdom or for the attrocities of Leopold II in the Congo as the current generations of Germans is to be blamed for world war 2 and the attrocities of the Nazis.

I'm here and now because two people decided to have ... well ... you know what. It was none of my choice.

There is no majority in Belgium anymore among the commoners to maintain the royal household, but there's no political majority and it would be such a legalistic upset that no-one wants to eat that hot potato.

\%/@rd

--- D'Bridge 4
* Origin: If you build it he will come (2:292/854)

Hello Ward!

11 May 20 08:57, Ward Dossche wrote to Gerrit Kuehn:

So I guess you wanted it this way, and
you certainly could decide to take a different route.

I hope you won't take any offence over this but the current

Not at all, I wasn't meaning to say you should do (or should have done long ago) anything in particular. I just said that this is (now) all in the hands of the Belgian people and could be changed any time, if desired.

There is no majority in Belgium anymore among the commoners to
maintain the royal household, but there's no political majority and
it would be such a legalistic upset that no-one wants to eat that hot potato.

As long as this is the case, changing it is obviously not urgently required.


Regards,
Gerrit

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The presidency (in the US) is a very weak office. Had you bothered
to read the US Constitution, you would have known that.

It usually surprised the friends I encountered in the US when I was working there, that I, an ignorant Swede, actually *had* not only read it, but even understood it.

I usually started with asking them if they them selves knew what the first ten amendments are called. You'd be surprised to know how few knew the correct answer.

And, of course, after all those TV-shows from the WH we all know that the POTUS hasn't even read your constitution. There's even audio recordings where he admits that it's written in a language that he doesn't understand.

Don't you have any tests at all that a POTUS candidate has to pass? At least in par with the test you have to take to become a US citizen.

But I must admit I miss the daily WH press "conferences" now that Joe Orange obviously has been grounded(?) when not even the most fanatical and corrupt GOP:ers can defend his latest stupidities and blatant lies.

Or has he finally understood that the virus can invade even the WH unless you carefully follow the recommendations from the experts. Not a good idea to fire all of the experts who questioned your genius, in order to create a corps of yeah-sayers was it...?


..

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* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

I was under the impression that he had owned (black) slaves as well.

Where did you get that impression? I was under the impression that even his parents were strongly against slavery.


..

--- Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; sv-SE; rv:1.9.1.16) Gecko/20101125
* Origin: news://eljaco.se (2:203/2)

Hello David,

Up until Abraham Lincoln, almost all our presidents owned black
people as property.

I was under the impression that he had owned (black) slaves as well.

Honest "Babe" Lincoln was not the kind of person everybody thinks.
Even though she was, by all accounts, the finest wrestler in all the
land, having lost only one match in her entire career.

Lincoln was an abolitionist for twenty years before becoming
president. Her twin brother died in childbirth, and she paid him
homage by duping the entire world into believing she was a man.
As well as managing to legally marry another woman, and live as
a couple in the White House. Even got folks to falsely believe
she ended slavery in the US. Anyway, all that is beside the point,
as only men could own slaves. Which is why she was so jealous of
John Wilkes Booth, who owned an entire stable, and when she got
a look at them at Ford's theater we all know what happened next.

--Lee

--
More Doctors Smoke Camels than Any Other Cigarette

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On 12/05/2020 02:11, 2203/2 wrote:
 DD>> I was under the impression that he had owned (black) slaves as well.

   Where did you get that impression?

I don't know. That is the thing with impressions, the buggers sneak up on you.

I was under the impression that even his parents were strongly against

slavery.

I do not closely follow all of the socio-political opinions of my parents. Would Abe?

https://www.history.com/news/how-many-u-s-presidents-owned-slaves

Perhaps it is Washington that I was thinking of...

--
Regards
David

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Honest "Babe" Lincoln was not the kind of person everybody thinks.

The rest of this conspiracy shit of yours may very well be believed by a Trumpster group, but out here we are a wee bit more educated.




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Perhaps it is Washington that I was thinking of...

That may very well be it. By then (almost a century earlier) it was mostly European misfits that managed to create the not so nice society of that time.


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Hello David,

Up until Abraham Lincoln, almost all our presidents owned black
people as property.

I was under the impression that he had owned (black) slaves as well.

Abraham Lincoln (not the fictional character) was an abolitionist
for twenty years prior to becoming president. Contrary to popular
opinion, he did not free the slaves during his tenure. It was only
after his death, with passage and ratification of the 13th Amendment
that slavery and involuntary servitude came to an end. Even then,
slavery did continue to exist in other forms, such as in prisons (as
allowed in the 13th Amendment), and indentured servants (until the
time of FDR, who banned the practice).

I never looked into what Lincoln's parents views were, except to
note that his twin brother died in childbirth. What influenced his
views on slavery may have been due to his parents beliefs, perhaps
not. What was most important to him during his tenure as president
was not the issue of slavery, but rather of keeping the country
together.

--Lee

--
Probably the best beer in the world

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Hello Bj�rn,

Perhaps it is Washington that I was thinking of...

That may very well be it.

George Washington had the teeth of his slaves for dentures.
Probably also some other teeth from other sources. But being
a wealthy man, he could afford a natural set ...

By then (almost a century earlier) it was mostly European misfits that managed to create the not so nice society of that time.

Imposing our own standards of today on those of the past is not fair.
Imagine what others a hundred years from now will think of us.

--Lee

--
NO MASKS REQUIRED. THIS IS A NO-FEAR ZONE.

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Hello Bj�rn,

I was under the impression that he had owned (black) slaves DD>as well.

Where did you get that impression? I was under the impression that even

his

parents were strongly against slavery.

Fake news! Fake news!

The entity known as Abraham Lincoln was *not* born in a log cabin!

And also never ended slavery!

In fact, the USA still practices slavery today.
In our prisons, having prisoners work for less than peanuts.
One governor of Louisiana had the brilliant idea to get prisoners
to make the gurneys used for executing other prisoners. But that
started a riot, and he had to shelve that idea. Then the state
ran out of drugs to use to execute the prisoners. So now we have
no beds or drugs to kill our prisoners with.

Been well over ten years since the last time a prisoner was
executed. And that one had volunteered to die, by rejecting all
his appeals.

Time to bring Gertrude (the state's electric chair) out of retirement
and put her to use.

--Lee

--
Travel should take you places

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Hello Bj�rn,

Honest "Babe" Lincoln was not the kind of person everybody thinks.

The rest of this conspiracy shit of yours may very well be believed by a Trumpster group, but out here we are a wee bit more educated.

I first read about it in a supermarket tabloid.
In the days before the internet.
So it must be true.

--Lee

--
Work sets you free.

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The rest of this conspiracy shit of yours may very well be believed by a
Trumpster group, but out here we are a wee bit more educated.

I first read about it in a supermarket tabloid.
In the days before the internet.
So it must be true.

LOL! Yeah, I kinda figured it had to be something like that. :)



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Then the state
ran out of drugs to use to execute the prisoners. So now we have
no beds or drugs to kill our prisoners with.

I heard about one state where the killing drugs were about to expire, and they rushed to kill as many as possible before the "best before" date. Didn't know there actually was something like that.

What an awful world to live in. The society uses it's monopoly on violence to actually, legally murder it's own citizens? Yikes... :(

Well, to be honest, it wasn't until 1921 that Sweden abandoned the death penalty in peace time and 1973(!) in war time. The last execution here was by guillotine in November 1910.


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Hello Bj�rn,

Nationalism is one of the great faults of the modern world.

A true statement, and truly understated.

Modern?

Depends on where you set the limit.

How about: when the apes *imagined* that they understood the difference between black and brown apes?

Tarzan was not black or brown.

What did the apes think of that?

Tarzan, Lord of the Jungle.

When he yelled, apes listened.

--Lee

--
Why not enjoy the go?

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