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  • C64 Refurb

    From Daniel@1:340/7 to All on Mon May 4 13:36:00 2020
    Hi folks,

    My C64 has been in it's box for many months now. Priorities took hold and life has changed drastically.

    I'm getting close to starting my c64 breadbin restore project. You may recall past posts of mine lamenting about not getting a good video output and possibly
    frying a chip. Though, the conversation may have occured on a forum. I don't recall.

    That said, I will be approaching this as a complete restoration project.

    My list of things-to-do:

    1. Build or purchase a new C64 power supply
    *which ever is cheaper and/or better
    2. Retrobrite the shell
    3. Thorough cleaning of everything
    3. Recap the mainboard
    *obtain a cap kit
    4. Replace a potentially burned out chip from my stupid mistake

    I have yet to replace a chip on a board and so I ask this with respect to best practices of the restoration community. Is socketing the chip a recommended thing to do?

    On another note, I believe the rig linked below is meant solely for the original power supply. Would it be prudent to build a rig like this for any power supply? Or are the modern equivalents built with this sort of protection in its design?

    https://console5.com/store/commodore-64-power-saver-circuit-kit.html

    I will be documenting this restoration project on my phlog as well as on here. I hope enough of you are around to assist me with knowledge transfer as I run into any inevitable roadblocks.

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at: gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (1:340/7)
  • From Dave Vandermeer@1:229/275 to Daniel on Wed May 6 11:19:27 2020
    On 04 May 2020, Daniel said the following...

    I have yet to replace a chip on a board and so I ask this with respect
    to best practices of the restoration community. Is socketing the chip a recommended thing to do?


    I'd say a big yes on this. Much easier to use a chip puller than to desolder every pin on the chip when/if you need to replace it. (like a 6502)

    --- Mystic BBS v1.12 A45 2020/02/18 (Linux/64)
    * Origin: Internal Dimension [idbbs.dlinkddns.com:59] (1:229/275)
  • From Daniel@1:340/7 to Dave Vandermeer on Fri May 22 20:26:00 2020
    Dave Vandermeer wrote to Daniel <=-

    On 04 May 2020, Daniel said the following...

    I have yet to replace a chip on a board and so I ask this with respect
    to best practices of the restoration community. Is socketing the chip a recommended thing to do?


    I'd say a big yes on this. Much easier to use a chip puller than to desolder every pin on the chip when/if you need to replace it. (like a 6502)

    Cool thanks. Do you have a C64 that you've rebuilt or do you just do maintenance mode on it?

    Daniel Traechin

    ... Visit me at gopher://gcpp.world
    --- MultiMail/Linux v0.49
    * Origin: Digital Distortion: digdist.synchro.net (1:340/7)
  • From Computer Nerd Kev@3:770/3 to Daniel on Mon May 4 23:25:06 2020
    Daniel <nospam.Daniel@f1.n770.z3145.fidonet.org> wrote:

    I have yet to replace a chip on a board and so I ask this with respect to
    best
    practices of the restoration community. Is socketing the chip a recommended thing to do?

    The advantage is that if the chip fails it's easy to replace, the
    disadvantage is that if the chip seems to have failed, the first
    suspect is that it's just a poor contact in the socket. So easier
    to fix but _possibly_ less reliable. More of a problem if the board
    is likely to be bumped around a lot. You'll have to decide for
    yourself what you prefer.

    You might also consider installing heatsinks on some of the chips
    seeing as you're doing everything else.

    On another note, I believe the rig linked below is meant solely for the original power supply. Would it be prudent to build a rig like this for any power supply? Or are the modern equivalents built with this sort of
    protection
    in its design?

    https://console5.com/store/commodore-64-power-saver-circuit-kit.html

    In theory the originals had protection built into their design, it
    just tends to fail because they run too hot so the regulator chip
    dies an early death. Poor quality capacitors can also fail early
    and cause excessive supply ripple, more so if also overheated.

    So if you're sure that the replacement power supply is well heat
    sinked and uses high quality genuine components, it might be
    over-kill to use a protection circuit. On the other hand if it's
    something that someone's cobbled together from cheap Chinese
    PSU modules bought off Ebay, then I'd suggest more caution.

    My design also indicates ripple and low 5VDC or 9VAC voltage: http://computernerdkev.heliohost.org/comiemon/comiemon.htm http://computernerdkev.heliohost.org/comiemon/relay.htm

    --
    __ __
    #_ < |\| |< _#

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)
  • From Daniel@3:770/3 to All on Tue May 5 08:57:11 2020
    On 5/4/20 4:25 PM, Computer Nerd Kev wrote:

    I just happened to look at c.s.cbm when I saw this reply. Just so you
    know, there is a one-way exchange between fidonet and this newsgroup so,
    while I posted this on fidonet, your reply never made it to me. And
    other than the reply-to address, BBS fidonet gateway information is
    stripped from my original post so you have no way of knowing that the OP
    comes from a BBS. I believe they used to have two-way communication I
    figure they disabled it due to increased SPAM issues during usenet's
    heyday. If I hadn't inadvertently clicked on this newsgroup (I generally don't), I may not have seen your reply for a long time. I'm glad I did,
    must've been a psychic thing.

    Daniel <nospam.Daniel@f1.n770.z3145.fidonet.org> wrote:

    I have yet to replace a chip on a board and so I ask this with respect to best
    practices of the restoration community. Is socketing the chip a recommended >> thing to do?

    The advantage is that if the chip fails it's easy to replace, the disadvantage is that if the chip seems to have failed, the first
    suspect is that it's just a poor contact in the socket. So easier
    to fix but _possibly_ less reliable. More of a problem if the board
    is likely to be bumped around a lot. You'll have to decide for
    yourself what you prefer.

    I'll probably do a socket if it comes down to replacing the chip.

    You might also consider installing heatsinks on some of the chips
    seeing as you're doing everything else.

    Funny you mention that. The thought never occured to me in doing this
    until I saw this earlier. I just forgot to mention it on my to-do-list

    https://www.thefuturewas8bit.com/64-repair

    In theory the originals had protection built into their design, it
    just tends to fail because they run too hot so the regulator chip
    dies an early death. Poor quality capacitors can also fail early
    and cause excessive supply ripple, more so if also overheated.

    If I buy a c64 PSU, it'll come from sites specific to the C64 or
    retroware. Something like this:

    https://commodore4ever.net/collections/power-supplies/products/commodore-64-vic -20-power-supply-atom-retro

    https://www.c64psu.com/c64psu/43-157-commodore-64-c64-psu-power-supply.html

    So if you're sure that the replacement power supply is well heat
    sinked and uses high quality genuine components, it might be
    over-kill to use a protection circuit. On the other hand if it's
    something that someone's cobbled together from cheap Chinese
    PSU modules bought off Ebay, then I'd suggest more caution.

    My design also indicates ripple and low 5VDC or 9VAC voltage: http://computernerdkev.heliohost.org/comiemon/comiemon.htm http://computernerdkev.heliohost.org/comiemon/relay.htm

    Taking a look, thanks.

    --
    Daniel

    Visit me at: gopher://gcpp.world

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: Agency HUB, Dunedin - New Zealand | Fido<>Usenet Gateway (3:770/3)