Robbing the Poor to Pay the Rich
Pity poor President Biden, who can’t even seem to get the redistribution
of wealth right. His plan to cancel $10,000 in student loan debt for borrowers earning up to $125,000 per year is very possibly the single
biggest transfer from poor to rich in American history.

Somewhere, Bernie Sanders is weeping.

The average college graduate earns more than $1.2 million more over a
lifetime than his or her non-college peer. The unemployment rate for
college graduates is 2.9 percent and hasn’t risen above five percent in nearly two years, compared with an unemployment rate of 4.6 percent for
high school graduates.

Those income earners, however, will be helping to foot the bill for
their more affluent peers. Researchers at the University of Chicago determined that President Biden’s plan will shift an estimated $192
billion in earned income to the top 20 percent of wage earners. Just
$29 billion would go to the bottom 20 percent.
The Federal Reserve estimates that across the income spectrum, President Biden’s plan will lead to more than 31 percent of all borrowers (approximately 12 million in total) having their entire student loan
debt eliminated; roughly $321 billion forgiven in an instant.

https://www.maciverinstitute.com/2022/08/robbing-the-poor-to-pay-the-rich/
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On 25 Aug 2022, Seth Hurst said the following...

Robbing the Poor to Pay the Rich
Pity poor President Biden, who can’t even seem to get the
redistribution of wealth right. His plan to cancel $10,000 in student loan debt for borrowers earning up to $125,000 per year is very possibly the single biggest transfer from poor to rich in American history.

That the poor pay a disproportionate share of taxes in this country is
another problem that needs to be addressed.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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redistribution of wealth right. His plan to cancel $10,000 in student loan debt for borrowers earning up to $125,000 per year is very

I would of tapered it down to 400% the poverty level for full amount. and 600% the poverty level for half the benefit.

I think the things we need to do is
1. forgive the penalties and interest if you paid the principal amount plus 10%.
2. Stop the federal student loan program for graduate school and parent plus loans.
3. Phase out the federal student loan program for any BA degree that isnt: Science, technical, engineering, mathematics, foreign languages and business/econ.
4. Refinance existing student loans with 2 simple interest rates, 1% and 2%. 5. Stop foreign aid to Ukraine and Israel to help pay for this crapfest.

... A truly wise man never argues with a Unicorn

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A48 2022/07/15 (Windows/32)
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Seth Hurst wrote to FidoNet.ALL-POLITICS <=-

https://www.maciverinstitute.com/2022/08/robbing-the-poor-to-pay-the-ric

I truly cannot understand why anyone pays attention to the Maciver
Institute. It's so right-wing biased that the supposed "think tank" is more
a "GOP think tank."



"But you ain't got no legs, Lt. Dan"
- Forrest Gump

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Brightening the BBS world since 1990
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On 25 Aug 2022, Jeff Thiele said the following...

That the poor pay a disproportionate share of taxes in this country is another problem that needs to be addressed.

Right..... based on Kamala said
"based on equity, understanding that we fight for equality, but we also need to fight for equity"
If your out of work with no money, what taxes would they pay?

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On 30 Aug 2022, Rebecca Marie said the following...

Seth Hurst wrote to FidoNet.ALL-POLITICS <=-

https://www.maciverinstitute.com/2022/08/robbing-the-poor-to-pay-the-

I truly cannot understand why anyone pays attention to the Maciver
Institute. It's so right-wing biased that the supposed "think tank" is more a "GOP think tank."

Oh I wouldn't worry about Maciver. There are plenty of liberal universities where the kitchens are fully stocked with Swiss Miss Hot Chocolate and there are more than enough crayola crayons for everyone to share.

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On 06 Oct 2022, Gregory Deyss said the following...

That the poor pay a disproportionate share of taxes in this country is another problem that needs to be addressed.

Right..... based on Kamala said
"based on equity, understanding that we fight for equality, but we also need to fight for equity"
If your out of work with no money, what taxes would they pay?

Being "out of work with no money" is just one example of being poor, and certainly not the only one. A farmer who worked all season only to see some
of his crop fail for reasons beyond his control could also be considered poor, as could someone working a minimum-wage job to support a family. In fact,
most people on public assistance do have jobs.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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On 06 Oct 2022, Jeff Thiele said the following...

On 06 Oct 2022, Gregory Deyss said the following...

That the poor pay a disproportionate share of taxes in this count another problem that needs to be addressed.

Right..... based on Kamala said
"based on equity, understanding that we fight for equality, but we al need to fight for equity"
If your out of work with no money, what taxes would they pay?

Being "out of work with no money" is just one example of being poor, and certainly not the only one. A farmer who worked all season only to see some of his crop fail for reasons beyond his control could also be considered poor, as could someone working a minimum-wage job to support
a family. In fact, most people on public assistance do have jobs.

A greater amount of people on public assistance are jobless.
This I have seen within my former job for the ACP Affordable Connectivity Program. As proof of wages was required or having the association with a selected Federal Program. I can tell you from personal experience most of these individuals had no employment. I spoke to "consumers" from all over the U.S. It was the states of Michigan, Ohio and Alabama that seemed to have the greatest disparity and the highest poverty.

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On 06 Oct 2022, Gregory Deyss said the following...

Being "out of work with no money" is just one example of being poor, certainly not the only one. A farmer who worked all season only to se some of his crop fail for reasons beyond his control could also be considered poor, as could someone working a minimum-wage job to suppo a family. In fact, most people on public assistance do have jobs.

A greater amount of people on public assistance are jobless.
This I have seen within my former job for the ACP Affordable Connectivity Program. As proof of wages was required or having the association with a selected Federal Program. I can tell you from personal experience most
of these individuals had no employment. I spoke to "consumers" from all over the U.S. It was the states of Michigan, Ohio and Alabama that
seemed to have the greatest disparity and the highest poverty.

I also have a job dealing with these statistics, and I can tell you that having, or actively seeking, a job is in most cases a requirement for public assistance.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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On 06 Oct 2022, Jeff Thiele said the following...

I also have a job dealing with these statistics, and I can tell you that having, or actively seeking, a job is in most cases a requirement for public assistance.

Does not seem logical for someone to be denied from DSS just because they are unemployed. Many have no job and there are some within the population that wouldn't want a job even if it was offered.

. ______ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿
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On 06 Oct 2022, Gregory Deyss said the following...

Does not seem logical for someone to be denied from DSS just because
they are unemployed. Many have no job and there are some within the population that wouldn't want a job even if it was offered.

Were you asleep during the welfare reform bill(s) passed during the Clinton administration? That's exactly what they said -- able-bodied people need to
be seeking or holding jobs in order to qualify for public assistance.

Jeff.

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On 06 Oct 2022, Jeff Thiele said the following...

Were you asleep during the welfare reform bill(s) passed during the Clinton administration? That's exactly what they said -- able-bodied people need to be seeking or holding jobs in order to qualify for public assistance.

Yes of course I do remember that and I remember thinking "good for him"
when it was passed.

oh my, what do we have here? Gasp!
Found on the Web at https://thedailyhatch.org/2012/08/06/why-did-obama-but-the-welfare-reform-that- clinton-put-in/

The Obama Administration issued a new directive stating that the traditional TANF work requirements can be waived or overridden by a legal device called the section 1115 waiver authority under the Social Security law (42 U.S.C. 1315).

Section 1115 states that the Secretary may waive compliance with any of the requirements of specified parts of various laws. But this is not an open-ended authority: Any provision of law that can be waived under section
1115 must be listed in section 1115 itself. The work provisions of the TANF program are contained in section 407 (entitled, appropriately, mandatory work requirements). Critically, this section, as well as most other TANF requirements, are deliberately not listed in section 1115; they are not waiveable.

In establishing TANF, Congress deliberately exempted or shielded nearly all
of the TANF program from the section 1115 waiver authority. They did not want the law to be rewritten at the whim of Health and Human Services (HHS) bureaucrats. Of the roughly 35 sections of the TANF law, only one is listed
as waiveable under section 1115. This is section 402.

Section 402 describes state plans reports that state governments must file to HHS describing the actions they will undertake to comply with the many requirements established in the other sections of the TANF law. The authority to waive section 402 provides the option to waive state reporting requirements only, not to overturn the core requirements of the TANF program contained in the other sections of the TANF law.

The new Obama dictate asserts that because the work requirements, established in section 407, are mentioned as an item that state governments must report about in section 402, all the work requirements can be waived. This removes
the core of the TANF program; TANF becomes a blank slate that HHS bureaucrats and liberal state bureaucrats can rewrite at will.

Congressional Research Service: There Are No TANF Waivers

In a December 2001 document, Welfare Reform Waivers and TANF, the non-partisan Congressional Research Service clarified that the limited authority to waive state reporting requirement in section 402 does not grant authority to override work and other major requirements in the other sections of the TANF law (sections that were deliberately not listed under the section
1115 waiver authority):

Technically, there is waiver authority for TANF state plan requirement; however, [the] major TANF requirements are not in state plans. Effectively, there are no TANF waivers.

Obviously, if the Congress had wanted HHS to be able to waive the TANF work requirements laid out in section 407, it would have listed that section as waiveable under section 1115. It did not do that.

Define Work
In the past, state bureaucrats have attempted to define activities such as
hula dancing, attending Weight Watchers, and bed rest as work. These dodges were blocked by the federal work standards. Now that the Obama Administration has abolished those standards, we can expect work in the TANF program to mean anything but work.

The new welfare dictate issued by the Obama Administration clearly guts the law. The Administration tramples on the actual legislation passed by Congress and seeks to impose its own policy choices pattern that has become all too common in this Administration.

The result is the end of welfare reform.

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On 07 Oct 2022, Gregory Deyss said the following...

The Obama Administration issued a new directive stating that the traditional TANF work requirements can be waived or overridden by a
legal device called the section 1115 waiver authority under the Social Security law (42 U.S.C. 1315).

[...]

The new welfare dictate issued by the Obama Administration clearly guts the law. The Administration tramples on the actual legislation passed by Congress and seeks to impose its own policy choices pattern that has become all too common in this Administration.

However, here in reality, the bulk of TANF recipients do face work requirements.

Jeff.

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On 07 Oct 2022, Jeff Thiele said the following...

On 07 Oct 2022, Gregory Deyss said the following...

The Obama Administration issued a new directive stating that the traditional TANF work requirements can be waived or overridden by a legal device called the section 1115 waiver authority under the Socia Security law (42 U.S.C. 1315).

[...]

The new welfare dictate issued by the Obama Administration clearly gu the law. The Administration tramples on the actual legislation passed Congress and seeks to impose its own policy choices pattern that has become all too common in this Administration.

However, here in reality, the bulk of TANF recipients do face work requirements.

Face work? More like face sanctions sometimes for three months for being non-compliant in their assigned work duties.
Furthermore, TANFs work programs rarely move parents into jobs that lift their families out of poverty.
[TANFs "early years" witnessed unprecedented declines in the number of families receiving cash assistance and declines in poverty.]
However, the TANF caseload has failed to adequately respond to need.
That last line should spell it out for you, and why do you think that it has failed to adequately to the need. Hmm?

I went over it and explained clearly how Clinton's initiative is
currently being skirted. Yet you want to cling onto the notion.. perhaps the reason why you were so persistent had something to do with your sarcastic tone? When you asked me if I was sleeping. This reads like you had NO idea that this was all undone by Obama. Naturally, you wouldn't know because you have no
need for these kinds of social services.

The fact that had to cutout the url and much of what I said proves that I
was right. Most of us know that you and people like you never want to admit that you were wrong, specially by someone like me.

. ______ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿
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On 07 Oct 2022, Gregory Deyss said the following...

Face work? More like face sanctions sometimes for three months for being non-compliant in their assigned work duties.

"face work requirements" was what I said, not "face work."

Furthermore, TANFs work programs rarely move parents into jobs that lift their families out of poverty.

That is simply not true. Here is a report from 2022: https://www.cbo.gov/publication/58199

I went over it and explained clearly how Clinton's initiative is
currently being skirted. Yet you want to cling onto the notion.. perhaps the reason why you were so persistent had something to do with your sarcastic tone? When you asked me if I was sleeping. This reads like you had NO idea that this was all undone by Obama. Naturally, you wouldn't know because you have no need for these kinds of social services.

I know because of my job, and I know that you are trying very hard to insert two logical fallacies in this conversation:

1. Basing all public assistance on the specificities of a single one, such as DSS or TANF, and
2. Overexaggerating the effect of the Obama-era introduction of work requirement waivers for TANF.

The fact that had to cutout the url and much of what I said proves that I was right. Most of us know that you and people like you never want to admit that you were wrong, specially by someone like me.

I did that for brevity, not because I didn't want anyone to read it. If
they're interested in it, they can go back to your previous post.

As for admitting one is wrong, you might consider it. The Obama
administration did not "gut" TANF work requirements, but allowed for waivers
in certain circumstances. In fact, the only reference to TANF waivers that I can find are related to waiving a person's lifetime limit on the number of months they can receive TANF benefits, not the work requirement. (Remember
that the "T" in "TANF" stands for "Temporary.")

There were apparently some changes to TANF work requirements in the Deficit Reduction Act of 2005, but that would have been under Bush II, not Obama.

Jeff.

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On 07 Oct 2022, Jeff Thiele said the following...

I know because of my job, and I know that you are trying very hard to insert two logical fallacies in this conversation:

Wait a minute, A logical fallacy is an argument that can be disproven through reasoning. This is different from a subjective argument or one that can be disproven with facts; for a position to be a logical fallacy, it must be logically flawed or deceptive in some way.

It was not my intention to be flawed or deceptive in anyway.
You could of made your point without the sarcasm when you asked me if I was sleeping? I simply pointed out that Obama largely effected Welfare reduction act of 1996.

In fact I am glad that you have a job where you can help people and make a positive difference. In that regard, we are very similar.

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On 08 Oct 2022, Gregory Deyss said the following...

I know because of my job, and I know that you are trying very hard to insert two logical fallacies in this conversation:

Wait a minute, A logical fallacy is an argument that can be disproven through reasoning. This is different from a subjective argument or one that can be disproven with facts; for a position to be a logical
fallacy, it must be logically flawed or deceptive in some way.

As indeed were the two arguments that I pointed out.

It was not my intention to be flawed or deceptive in anyway.
You could of made your point without the sarcasm when you asked me if I was sleeping? I simply pointed out that Obama largely effected Welfare reduction act of 1996.

I could have, but where's the fun in that? Obama didn't affect welfare work requirements to nearly the degree that you're suggesting he did, if at all.

In fact I am glad that you have a job where you can help people and make
a positive difference. In that regard, we are very similar.

Same.

Jeff.

--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Raspberry Pi/32)
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//Hello Gregory,//

on *06.10.22* at *23:12:40* You wrote in area *ALL-POLITICS*
to *Jeff Thiele* about *"Re: Robbing the Poor to Pay the Rich"*.

a family. In fact, most people on public assistance do have jobs.

A greater amount of people on public assistance are jobless. This I have seen within my former job for the ACP Affordable Connectivity Program. As proof of wages was required or having the association with a selected Federal Program. I can tell you from personal experience most of these individuals had no employment. I spoke to "consumers" from all over the U.S. It was the states of Michigan, Ohio and Alabama that seemed to have the greatest disparity and the highest poverty.

. ______ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿
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--- Mystic BBS v1.12 A46 2020/08/26 (Windows/64)
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The facts are the majority of people on public assistance are working.

--- WinPoint 411.0
* Origin: Original *WinPoint* Origin! (1:129/328.5)

On 10 Oct 2022, Gary Ailes said the following...

a family. In fact, most people on public assistance do have jobs.

A greater amount of people on public assistance are jobless. This I h seen within my former job for the ACP Affordable Connectivity Program proof of wages was required or having the association with a selected Federal Program. I can tell you from personal experience most of thes individuals had no employment. I spoke to "consumers" from all over t U.S. It was the states of Michigan, Ohio and Alabama that seemed to h the greatest disparity and the highest poverty.

The facts are the majority of people on public assistance are working.

For those on those who are on public assistance, what can they afford, I am not on public assistance and even I struggle at times. Inflation is at a 40 year high and it drives the cost up for everyday items.

.÷______ ÚÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿ ÉÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ» ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¿
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