• Thanks America!

    From Shitty@VERT/ALCO to All on Thu Nov 7 10:30:00 2024
    Thanks for electing Trump! I love Trump a lot. I went to 2 of his rallies over the summer, and those Trump rallies really are the most fun events ever (if you love Trump!)

    Trump won by a landslide. He won every single battleground state!

    Kamala got fewer votes than Biden got in 2020, in every single state (according to media reports.)

    This was the best election ever. We needed this very badly!

    Now, if/when the media insults Trump, they're not only insulting Trump, but they're insulting the majority of American voters! (Way to go ignorant leftists! Keep it red!)

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Shitty on Thu Nov 7 09:42:31 2024
    Re: Thanks America!
    By: Shitty to All on Thu Nov 07 2024 10:30 am

    Now, if/when the media insults Trump, they're not only insulting Trump, but they're insulting the majority of American voters! (Way to go ignorant leftists! Keep it red!)

    But how many voters chose Trump as the lesser of 2 evils? I have a feeling some of the people who voted for Trump did so not because they really like him, but because they dislike him less than the opponents.

    Nightfox

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  • From Denn@VERT/OUTWEST to Nightfox on Thu Nov 7 13:25:09 2024
    Re: Thanks America!
    By: Shitty to All on Thu Nov 07 2024 10:30 am

    But how many voters chose Trump as the lesser of 2 evils? I have a feeling some of the people who voted for Trump did so not because they really like him, but because they dislike him less than the opponents.

    Nightfox

    Some who voted Trump don't like Trump, but they absolutely hate Kamala.

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Shitty on Thu Nov 7 14:57:08 2024
    Re: Thanks America!
    By: Shitty to All on Thu Nov 07 2024 10:30 am


    Kamala got fewer votes than Biden got in 2020, in every single state (according to media reports.)



    well everyone will get fewer votes than biden. they say he got more than obama did. i think a lot of those votes were bogus.
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  • From Bf2k+@VERT/TACOPRON to Shitty on Fri Nov 8 06:32:34 2024
    Re: Thanks America!
    By: Shitty to All on Thu Nov 07 2024 10:30 am

    Now, if/when the media insults Trump, they're not only insulting Trump, but they're insulting the majority of American voters! (Way to go ignorant leftists! Keep it red!)

    They've already started more stupidity... like telling women that because a man won, women should divorce their husbands.

    These idiots just don't understand why they lost...

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  • From Bf2k+@VERT/TACOPRON to Nightfox on Fri Nov 8 06:35:01 2024
    Re: Thanks America!
    By: Nightfox to Shitty on Thu Nov 07 2024 09:42 am

    But how many voters chose Trump as the lesser of 2 evils? I have a feeling some of the people who voted for Trump did so not because they really like him, but because they dislike him less than the opponents.


    Or like me, some people vote for the plan... not the person. I vote for things like $1.80/gal gas, closed borders and no men in women's sports... just to name a few things.

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  • From Bf2k+@VERT/TACOPRON to MRO on Fri Nov 8 06:37:20 2024
    Re: Thanks America!
    By: MRO to Shitty on Thu Nov 07 2024 02:57 pm

    well everyone will get fewer votes than biden. they say he got more than obama did. i think a lot of those votes were bogus.

    They absolutely were! It's been well-documented although the shameful news media will never talk about it.

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  • From Dr. What@VERT/THEGATEB to Shitty on Fri Nov 8 07:48:00 2024
    Shitty wrote to All <=-

    Kamala got fewer votes than Biden got in 2020, in every single state (according to media reports.)

    But that's mostly because Biden got like 14 million votes from people who didn't exist, or voted multiple times, etc.

    People were watching and, mysteriously, there were 18 million less votes than in 2020 - which puts the number of votes cast about correct according to the last 5 years (other than 2020, of course).


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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Bf2k+ on Fri Nov 8 11:18:50 2024
    Re: Thanks America!
    By: Bf2k+ to Nightfox on Fri Nov 08 2024 06:35 am

    Or like me, some people vote for the plan... not the person. I vote for things like $1.80/gal gas, closed borders and no men in women's sports... just to name a few things.

    One thing that worries me a bit is that I've heard Trump wants to impose tariffs on imported goods, especially from China, where his tariffs would be higher. A lot of our electronic goods are made in China, and I'm worried this would mean higher prices for a lot of our goods. If you need a new refrigerator, washer, dryer, computer, etc., you may be paying more for it. Let alone things we might buy with disposable income, such as a game console, Raspberry Pi & accessories, and other such things.

    We've already experienced high inflation over the past few years, and we don't need further price increases.

    Nightfox

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  • From Shitty@VERT/ALCO to Nightfox on Sat Nov 9 10:03:00 2024
    Now, if/when the media insults Trump, they're not only insulting Trum but they're insulting the majority of American voters! (Way to go ign leftists! Keep it red!)

    But how many voters chose Trump as the lesser of 2 evils? I have a feeling some of the people who voted for Trump did so not because they really like him, but because they dislike him less than the opponents.

    That describes every election. There has never been 2 totally awesome candidates. There has never been a time when the decision was difficult to make.

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  • From Shitty@VERT/ALCO to MRO on Sat Nov 9 10:05:00 2024
    Kamala got fewer votes than Biden got in 2020, in every single state (according to media reports.)



    well everyone will get fewer votes than biden. they say he got more than obama did. i think a lot of those votes were bogus.

    Look at all the money they stole from us. Trillions of dollars, with nothing to show for it.

    When someone has "obtain trillions of dollars" on their agenda, mysterious things are bound to happen at the polls.

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  • From Shitty@VERT/ALCO to Bf2k+ on Sat Nov 9 10:07:00 2024
    Now, if/when the media insults Trump, they're not only insulting Trump, they're insulting the majority of American voters! (Way to go ignorant leftists! Keep it red!)

    They've already started more stupidity... like telling women that
    because a man won, women should divorce their husbands.

    These idiots just don't understand why they lost...

    Exactly. They took a dump, and now they're rolling around in it. It's disgusting, but their antics will only help us even more now that most of America has awaken.

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  • From Shitty@VERT/ALCO to Dr. What on Sat Nov 9 10:09:00 2024
    Kamala got fewer votes than Biden got in 2020, in every single state (according to media reports.)

    But that's mostly because Biden got like 14 million votes from people who didn't exist, or voted multiple times, etc.

    People were watching and, mysteriously, there were 18 million less votes than in 2020 - which puts the number of votes cast about correct
    according to the last 5 years (other than 2020, of course).

    I heard about that and it's fascinating, and it needs investigating. 18 million voters didn't just decide not to vote this year "because of climate change."

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  • From Shitty@VERT/ALCO to Nightfox on Sat Nov 9 10:10:00 2024
    just to name a few things.

    One thing that worries me a bit is that I've heard Trump wants to impose tariffs on imported goods, especially from China, where his tariffs
    would be higher. A lot of our electronic goods are made in China, and
    I'm worried this would mean higher prices for a lot of our goods. If
    you need a new refrigerator, washer, dryer, computer, etc., you may be paying more for it. Let alone things we might buy with disposable
    income, such as a game console, Raspberry Pi & accessories, and other
    such things.

    We've already experienced high inflation over the past few years, and we don't need further price increases.

    Some things are more important than a good price on a new refrigerator, like being alive long enough to eat the food that's stored in it.

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Shitty on Sat Nov 9 09:57:46 2024
    Re: Re: Thanks America!
    By: Shitty to Nightfox on Sat Nov 09 2024 10:03 am

    That describes every election. There has never been 2 totally awesome candidates.

    That's true.

    There has never been a time when the decision was difficult to
    make.

    I disagree there.. I think this election and the last election were fairly difficult, and many more elections were difficult decisions.

    Nightfox

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Shitty on Sat Nov 9 09:59:31 2024
    Re: Re: Thanks America!
    By: Shitty to Nightfox on Sat Nov 09 2024 10:10 am

    Some things are more important than a good price on a new refrigerator, like being alive long enough to eat the food that's stored in it.

    I've seen a lot of people complain about cost of living and prices rising fairly fast over the past few years, and some have blamed it on the Biden administration. It has been one of the main concerns over the last few years. If people want inflation to slow down under a new president, then Trump's tariffs are concerning.

    Nightfox

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  • From Dr. What@VERT/THEGATEB to Shitty on Sat Nov 9 13:19:00 2024
    Shitty wrote to Dr. What <=-

    People were watching and, mysteriously, there were 18 million less votes than in 2020 - which puts the number of votes cast about correct
    according to the last 5 years (other than 2020, of course).

    I heard about that and it's fascinating, and it needs investigating. 18 million voters didn't just decide not to vote this year "because of climate change."

    What's even more funny is that even the Wokies are demanding an investigation.

    But from their point of view, the problem was in 2024, and not in 2020.

    In any case, this does not bode well for the instigators of the 2020 election fraud.


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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANTIR to Nightfox on Sat Nov 9 16:48:17 2024
    Re: Thanks America!
    By: Nightfox to Bf2k+ on Fri Nov 08 2024 11:18 am

    One thing that worries me a bit is that I've heard Trump wants to impose tariffs on imported goods, especially from China, where his tariffs would be higher. A lot of our electronic goods are made in China, and I'm worried this would mean higher prices for a lot of our goods. If you need a new refrigerator, washer, dryer, computer, etc., you may be paying more for it. Let alone things we might buy with disposable income, such as a game console, Raspberry Pi & accessories, and other such things.

    Welcome to the EU, where this problem is a given!

    IMO the issue there is not the presence or lack of tariffs, but the fact a former industrial powerhouse such as the US depends on importing that stuff today.


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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANTIR to Nightfox on Sat Nov 9 16:55:18 2024
    Re: Re: Thanks America!
    By: Nightfox to Shitty on Sat Nov 09 2024 09:59 am

    I've seen a lot of people complain about cost of living and prices rising fairly fast over the past few years, and some have blamed it on the Biden administration. It has been one of the main concerns over the last few years. If people want inflation to slow down under a new president, then Trump's tariffs are concerning.

    Spain used to be sanctioned as heck back in the day. The result of having international commerce restricted isn't inflation as much as just a lack of choice for products.

    What I mean is maybe you don't get to buy the medical gear you used to buy from outside because commerce is either sanctioned or the price is too bad. What ends up happening is you end up picking among 2 or 3 local brands which you would not have picked otherwise.

    This is not a great arrangement. After all, there is a reason why you would not have picked the local brands to begin with, until they forced you.


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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Arelor on Sat Nov 9 16:05:38 2024
    Re: Thanks America!
    By: Arelor to Nightfox on Sat Nov 09 2024 04:48 pm

    One thing that worries me a bit is that I've heard Trump wants to impose
    tariffs on imported goods, especially from China, where his tariffs would
    be higher. A lot of our electronic goods are made in China, and I'm
    worried this would mean higher prices for a lot of our goods. If you need

    Welcome to the EU, where this problem is a given!

    IMO the issue there is not the presence or lack of tariffs, but the fact a former industrial powerhouse such as the US depends on importing that stuff today.

    Yes, naturally that is an issue, but at least in the short term, I think prices will go up and make things less affordable. Also, I'm not sure the tariffs would even do much to solve the issue. The reason companies are having their products made in other countries is due to the lower cost, and I worry it would be unlikely that companies would decide to move manufacturing back home. But maybe if prices are too high due to tariffs, that could happen eventually..

    Nightfox

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  • From paulie420@VERT/BEERS20 to Nightfox on Sat Nov 9 16:20:00 2024
    If people want inflation to slow down under a new president, then
    Trump's tariffs are concerning.

    I do agree here - I rely on electonics from China and... we've had big issues before when oil/gas goes up, or when customs has tightened the border; I'm worried that big tariffs are going to throw a wrench in the containers that I have in China, on the water and at port.

    Guess we'll see.



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  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to Shitty on Sat Nov 9 19:23:00 2024
    Hello Shitty!

    Look at all the money they stole from us. Trillions of dollars, with nothing to show for it.

    When someone has "obtain trillions of dollars" on their agenda, mysterious things are bound to happen at the polls.

    Most of the funds raised by the democrats probably went to pay
    for the appearances/performances of the mega music stars.

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Shitty on Sat Nov 9 23:27:09 2024
    Re: Re: Thanks America!
    By: Shitty to MRO on Sat Nov 09 2024 10:05 am

    Kamala got fewer votes than Biden got in 2020, in every single state (according to media reports.)



    well everyone will get fewer votes than biden. they say he got more than obama did. i think a lot of those votes were bogus.

    Look at all the money they stole from us. Trillions of dollars, with nothing to show for it.

    When someone has "obtain trillions of dollars" on their agenda, mysterious things are bound to happen at the polls.


    we gave over 50 billion in aid to ukraine. we won't get a penny of that back. meanwhile the president of ukraine and his wife are wealthy now and drive luxury cars.
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  • From SYS64738@VERT/GEO to paulie420 on Sun Nov 10 01:06:36 2024
    I do agree here - I rely on electonics from China and... we've had big issues before when oil/gas goes up, or when customs has tightened the border; I'm worried that big tariffs are going to throw a wrench in the containers that I have in China, on the water and at port.

    Guess we'll see.

    That is concerning. However, I think this is long-term economic planning. On the short-term, tariffs will cause the price of imports to be higher. In regards to commodities like food, it will make the American products more competitive than the foreign-grown products. Thus, making things better for Americans. Items that we no longer produce (electronics & etc.) will go up in the short-term, As America rebuilds its electronics industry, this price hike will trend downwards until the foreign competitors will be forced to compete against lower priced America goods.

    How long will we have to endure this? As long as it take for us to regain control of a majority of the global electronics market. Also, keep in mind that America is a large (if not the largest) consumer of electronics in the world. So, there is leverage to be had there as well. Of course, when we start drilling oil in earnest again, that will be the trump (no pun intended) card for leveraging any global trade deal.

    Of course, we put ourselves into this present position where we depend on producers overseas for our electronics when we kept buying the cheaper products instead of the American made products. Politicians cutting deals with Taiwan, China, and other countries are a lot to blame for this also.

    In short, we may have to bare the whole tariff thing until we're able to control more of the market, but in the long term it will be worth it IMO.

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  • From Denn@VERT/OUTWEST to Dr. What on Sun Nov 10 09:26:08 2024
    What's even more funny is that even the Wokies are demanding an investigation.

    But from their point of view, the problem was in 2024, and not in 2020.

    In any case, this does not bode well for the instigators of the 2020 election fraud.

    Pretty funny that 18 million votes are gone this time, old Joe more popular than Obama?
    I don't think so.
    My bet is democrats are busy right now destroying evidence.

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  • From jimmylogan@VERT/DIGDIST to Arelor on Sun Nov 10 12:33:52 2024
    Arelor wrote to Nightfox <=-


    Welcome to the EU, where this problem is a given!

    IMO the issue there is not the presence or lack of tariffs, but the
    fact a former industrial powerhouse such as the US depends on importing that stuff today.

    yeah - my thought is this might raise some interest in local production
    again!



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  • From jimmylogan@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Sun Nov 10 12:33:52 2024
    MRO wrote to Shitty <=-

    we gave over 50 billion in aid to ukraine. we won't get a penny of
    that back. meanwhile the president of ukraine and his wife are wealthy
    now and drive luxury cars. ---

    This is a talking point I've heard from my liberal friends - that suddenly
    we signed a death blow for Ukraine. Most people think we need to take
    care of our own first.



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  • From hollowone@VERT/BEERS20 to Nightfox on Sun Nov 10 12:39:00 2024
    One thing that worries me a bit is that I've heard Trump wants to impose tariffs on imported goods, especially from China, where his tariffs
    would be higher. A lot of our electronic goods are made in China, and
    I'm worried this would mean higher prices for a lot of our goods. If
    you need a new refrigerator, washer, dryer, computer, etc., you may be paying more for it. Let alone things we might buy with disposable
    income, such as a game console, Raspberry Pi & accessories, and other
    such things.


    Short term, maybe yes... long term... unless production is moved to countries without such aggressive tariffs.

    -h1

    ... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to SHITTY on Sun Nov 10 11:05:00 2024
    But how many voters chose Trump as the lesser of 2 evils? I have a feeling some of the people who voted for Trump did so not because they really like him, but because they dislike him less than the opponents.

    That describes every election. There has never been 2 totally awesome candidates. There has never been a time when the decision was difficult to make.

    There have never been 2 totally awesome candidates, but there have been
    three straight elections now where there were either 2 totally not-good choices, or 2 totally questionable ones.


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  • From Mike@VERT/CAPCITY2 to Nightfox on Sun Nov 10 01:13:28 2024
    On 09.11.2024 10:07, Nightfox wrote to Shitty:

    @TZUTC: -0800
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    Re: Re: Thanks America!
    By: Shitty to Nightfox on Sat Nov 09 2024 10:10 am

    Some things are more important than a good price on a new refrigerator, like being alive long enough to eat the food that's stored in it.

    I've seen a lot of people complain about cost of living and prices rising fairly fast over the past few years, and some have blamed it on the Biden administration. It has been one of the main concerns over the last few years.
    If people want inflation to slow down under a new president, then Trump's tariffs are concerning.

    Nightfox

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    Hello from germany

    Some notes about this from a "german".

    Here in germany the prices exploded because of two things:
    Corona & the war in the ukraine...

    For a lot of food things of the daily use we pay 30% more than before.
    Or in the package are less contens for the same price as before.

    You see... Not only a problem in the staates... Here the same.

    We are welcome to discuss why the respective governments did not ban these price increases! or ????? Simple explanation: They earned money through the respective taxes.
    Who does this particularly affect? The middle class...

    Here in Germany, politicians are surprised that there are so many shops go bankrupt
    because significantly fewer people can still buy. Oh wonder, oh wonder!
    In my opinion, politicians at the time should have frozen prices to prevent damage to
    citizens. Actually their oath of office, right?

    Volkswagen wants to close 3 factories in Germany and lay off 10,000 workers. Audi 4500. German cars are quite expensive here!

    A Gallon Diesel costs more than 6 bucks. Plus Gas about 7,50 bucks/Gallon. Electricity 36 ct/kwh (American ct, not euro ct!!)

    You see... You are not alone with this! I think a lot countries have the same problems,
    since corona and the war in the ukraine.

    Back to Donald Trump: He has promised a lot of things to get elected. And everybody
    knows what happens in his 1st period of office/terms. And!!!! how this ends.... And what happens after the 6th of january....

    Here in europe most of "us" think, his 2nd period of office/terms will get even worse.
    And... in my opinion... I hope they won't be right! This is not because I like him, but he
    will left a totally chaos in your country and the world.

    Greetings

    Mike



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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to SYS64738 on Sun Nov 10 14:56:00 2024
    How long will we have to endure this? As long as it take for us to regain control of a majority of the global electronics market.

    I would like the US to start manufacturing more of the things that we
    consume. However, I do have one foot in reality which tells me that, in
    order for that to happen, companies will have to do one of two things:

    (1) have a cost of manufacturing that is lower than the cost of
    manufacturing + importing into the USA;
    (2) will have to charge us a lot more for the products made here.

    The reason is that it is doubtful most unions are going to accept wages
    that are lower than the wages the company pays foreign workers + the cost
    to import the goods.


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  • From Bf2k+@VERT/TACOPRON to Dr. What on Sun Nov 10 15:11:38 2024
    Re: Re: Thanks America!
    By: Dr. What to Shitty on Sat Nov 09 2024 01:19 pm

    In any case, this does not bode well for the instigators of the 2020 election fraud.

    I hope you are right about this. They need to be imprisoned.

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Shitty on Sun Nov 10 14:17:37 2024
    Re: Re: Thanks America!
    By: Shitty to Nightfox on Sun Nov 10 2024 11:53 am

    I disagree there.. I think this election and the last election were
    fairly difficult, and many more elections were difficult decisions.

    What made this year's election difficult to choose?

    Is it that incredibly long list of things that Harris did for us? <jk>

    No; this year the democratic candidate was someone (Kamala) who was simply appointed as the democratic candidate without a process to choose her, and she didn't seem to know what she was doing, and Trump who just doesn't seem like a very good person (he's someone who mocked a disabled reporter a few years ago, for instance).

    Nightfox

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Shitty on Sun Nov 10 14:19:06 2024
    Re: Re: Thanks America!
    By: Shitty to Nightfox on Sun Nov 10 2024 12:04 pm

    I don't believe that the prices of food and electric are dependent on our relationship with China, and those are the costs that I'm concerned with.

    Yeah, I wouldn't worry about those.

    The prices of TVs are at an all time low. If that were to change, and if TVs double in price because of Trump tariffs, then I'm ok with that, provided that my electric and food prices are lowered.

    Electronics are in everything though. Not just TVs & such, but phones, cars, household appliances, etc., and I'm concerned there may be a ripple effect that could make a lot of consumer products more expensive.

    Nightfox

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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Mike on Sun Nov 10 14:22:07 2024
    Re: Re: Thanks America!
    By: Mike to Nightfox on Sun Nov 10 2024 01:13 am

    Volkswagen wants to close 3 factories in Germany and lay off 10,000 workers. Audi 4500. German cars are quite expensive here!

    Aside from inflation issues & such, it sounds like Volkswagen isn't doing very well. I always liked Volkswagens, and drove Volkswagens for about 20 years, but I didn't really like where Volkswagen has been going the last few years with their car designs. They had started using a lot of flat touch panels in their cars instead of physical buttons & knobs, and in the US, the stopped selling the base model Golf, and many of the vehicles they're selling in the US seem to be bigger vehicles such as SUVs (which I'm not particularly interested in).

    Nightfox

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  • From Denn@VERT/OUTWEST to MRO on Sun Nov 10 15:26:02 2024
    Re: Re: Thanks America!
    By: Shitty to MRO on Sat Nov 09 2024 10:05 am

    we gave over 50 billion in aid to ukraine. we won't get a penny of that back. meanwhile the president of ukraine and his wife are wealthy now and drive luxury cars.

    My guess is that many politicians like Mitch McConnell and Nancy Pelosi got huge cuts of the billions that was laundered through ukraine.
    I have no proof, this is pure speculation on my part.

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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANTIR to Mike on Sun Nov 10 17:23:59 2024
    Re: Re: Thanks America!
    By: Mike to Nightfox on Sun Nov 10 2024 01:13 am

    In my opinion, politicians at the time should have frozen prices to prevent damage to
    citizens. Actually their oath of office, right?

    Germany tried price caps to put a stop to runaway inflation when it concerned basic products - milk, vegetables, that sort of stuff - soon after WWII and it worked very poorly.

    Spain also underwent price capping for groceries around the same time.

    China had a crisis not long ago because they capped the price of electricity.

    The issue with price capping is that you make it less interesting for people to produce the capped goods so they stop doing it altogether. In the case of China, maybe the problem is they want to keep producing, but can't afford to, because the capped prices don't allow to pay their suppliers.

    Somethinc good came out of Spanish price capping, though. Everybody started using black markets and learnt to operate beyond the law.


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  • From hollowone@VERT/BEERS20 to Mike on Mon Nov 11 05:37:00 2024

    Here in germany the prices exploded because of two things:
    Corona & the war in the ukraine...


    Problems in Germany are more multilayer than just blaming Corona and
    Russian invasion of the Ukraine (as that how it should be properly named to point who to blame for it in the first place).

    Immigration politics blew in your faces, NordStreams and other gas deals with Russia blew in your faces... as nobody in the Baltic Sea area wanted them
    in the first place and you just tried to trick your Eastern neighbors
    together with Russians, against general interest of EU as whole... if that project didn't start and any trading with Russia had to continue through Ukraine, we would have no war in the first place. So you can kiss Schroeder's ass for your current inflation, my friend.

    All the social politics still exploited way too much by the former DDR
    part of your country that still is not compatible with Western Germany ethos
    it seems.

    Germany is not one consistent country like it would like to show itself to
    the world... You're internally so divided and moments of weakness in the
    world like we have today just exposes that heavily, yet many of you still
    think you can lead EU toward its better future while you can't secure your
    own.

    Germany is not a voice of Europe for a while and that is also a big
    surprise to many of you.

    First of all there is no single voice of Europe and that what also recent decade has shown very well (With Brexit included).

    Your cars are crap comparing to their past glory. Chinese BYD is superior
    to Audi in many ways... And even on top of your tech.. Czechs currently make the best German cars (Skoda) not Germans.. so I'm not suprised for closing the plants, maybe moving them to more competent engineering countries can help rescue the position... I drive SKoda and if they only could just fucking replace the crappy DSG transmission to some tech other than VW as electromechanics in it can't stand 60k KM without serious life risking failure.

    I live in Poland, work with Germans and I am quite often in Germany since
    like forever... (if I can call Mahmud, Mayur and Ermanno Germans tho, so more in German territory than Germans these days, unless in small town Bavaria, Turks from the 80s fairly included, often good fellows), and I can't fucking drive 100km on your highways without seeing reconstructions taking long years... the most famous one - A4 close to Dresden, you can't repair 30km of the crucial part of the belt road, heading west, for 15 years now... primarily because of the bureaucracy you're so famous of, internationally, plus this is Saxony...

    and as "meinen Bayerische Freunde haben gesagt: Sachsen Leute, andere Leute" which just proves there is no unity between Germans if you're close enough to discover.

    I live in Poland, which is currently, I think, the most Trump-compatible country in EU and albeit inflation and turbulences... we're still growing and with completely different view on the EU politics and problematics than DE, which in our general opinion lost its vision for the future and together
    with France is putting EU into its doom.

    So ...

    Here in europe most of "us" think, his 2nd period of office/terms will
    get even worse.

    ... Is actually not the case.


    My opinion is that electing this or that US president is the right of American people, not anybody else... and if anybody outside US, particularly in Europe, cries because of the results, it only means that that particular country and EU as a whole is weak... not Trump particularly strong.

    Problem solving should start home not by commenting other countries with negativity.. and this is actually what Trump understands well as I hear him.

    I strongly believe it will be an interesting wake up call for Europe or a final confirmation that it doesn't work and should be reformed or disbanded. I still believe the last scenario would be really bad for most Europeans... so I really hope for the wake up call.

    For Americans... I'm sure you'll have hell of a TV Show for the next years to come. I start making some popcorn and freezing my coke so I'm prepared to consume it all together.

    -h1

    ... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.
  • From hollowone@VERT/BEERS20 to Arelor on Mon Nov 11 05:39:00 2024
    Germany tried price caps to put a stop to runaway inflation when it concerned basic products - milk, vegetables, that sort of stuff - soon after WWII and it worked very poorly.

    Agreed, socialism is not what any country needs today to self-regulate. DDR Germans should know about it too, very well, but it seems they actually quite often miss it.

    -h1

    ... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.
  • From Mike@VERT/CAPCITY2 to Arelor on Mon Nov 11 09:11:54 2024
    On 10.11.2024 17:29, Arelor wrote to Mike:

    @TZUTC: -0600
    @MSGID: 27486.dove-deb@723:320/1 2b9720b0
    @PID: Synchronet 3.20a-Linux master/96855645d Nov 02 202 GCC 11.2.0
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    @CHRS: CP437 2
    @NOTE: FSEditor.js v1.105
    Re: Re: Thanks America!
    By: Mike to Nightfox on Sun Nov 10 2024 01:13 am

    In my opinion, politicians at the time should have frozen prices to prevent
    damage to
    citizens. Actually their oath of office, right?

    Germany tried price caps to put a stop to runaway inflation when it concerned
    basic products - milk, vegetables, that sort of stuff - soon after WWII and it
    worked very poorly.

    Spain also underwent price capping for groceries around the same time.

    China had a crisis not long ago because they capped the price of electricity.

    The issue with price capping is that you make it less interesting for people to
    produce the capped goods so they stop doing it altogether. In the case of China, maybe the problem is they want to keep producing, but can't afford to,
    because the capped prices don't allow to pay their suppliers.

    Somethinc good came out of Spanish price capping, though. Everybody started using black markets and learnt to operate beyond the law.


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    ooops WWII ... long time ago hahaha

    But what is better? Inflation or price stability?
    I think price stability, because the price spiral wouldn't continue!
    If the market goes crazy, "just" because of Corona/Ukraine and, for example, cooking oil
    costs twice as much from one day to the next!!!...the goverment should intervene
    and force the company to charge the old price again! Because, in this case, the warehouses in Germany were still filled with the cooking oil. I could call a lot of these
    examples where Article raised in the price from day to the next day!

    And if the price is high, it stays high for a long time. A company does not voluntarily
    lower the price of a product!

    And what happens.... The worker want more income...

    And so this spiral keeps turning!!

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  • From Mike@VERT/CAPCITY2 to Nightfox on Mon Nov 11 09:20:18 2024
    On 10.11.2024 14:30, Nightfox wrote to Mike:

    @TZUTC: -0800
    @MSGID: 27482.dove-deb@723:320/1 2b9720ac
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    @NOTE: SlyEdit 1.89c (2024-10-19) (ICE style)
    Re: Re: Thanks America!
    By: Mike to Nightfox on Sun Nov 10 2024 01:13 am

    Volkswagen wants to close 3 factories in Germany and lay off 10,000 workers. Audi 4500. German cars are quite expensive here!

    Aside from inflation issues & such, it sounds like Volkswagen isn't doing very
    well. I always liked Volkswagens, and drove Volkswagens for about 20 years, but I didn't really like where Volkswagen has been going the last few years with their car designs. They had started using a lot of flat touch panels in
    their cars instead of physical buttons & knobs, and in the US, the stopped selling the base model Golf, and many of the vehicles they're selling in the US
    seem to be bigger vehicles such as SUVs (which I'm not particularly interested
    in).

    Nightfox

    ---
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    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (723:320/1)


    A lot of faults which the mangement has done in the past!!! And they paid a lot Billions as punishment. And... you are right, wrong direction with their cars!

    Who pays? The people who work on the assembly line!!!

    And that's not ok!! Hope you agree with that?

    Mike

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  • From Mike@VERT/CAPCITY2 to Hollowone on Mon Nov 11 18:38:34 2024
    On 11.11.2024 05:37, Hollowone wrote to Mike:

    @TZUTC: 0000
    @MSGID: 27489.dove-deb@723:320/1 2b97c95f
    @PID: Synchronet 3.20a-Linux master/989524a94 Nov 11 202 GCC 12.2.0
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    @CHRS: CP437 2

    Here in germany the prices exploded because of two things:
    Corona & the war in the ukraine...


    Problems in Germany are more multilayer than just blaming Corona and
    Russian invasion of the Ukraine (as that how it should be properly named to point who to blame for it in the first place).

    Immigration politics blew in your faces, NordStreams and other gas deals with
    Russia blew in your faces... as nobody in the Baltic Sea area wanted them
    in the first place and you just tried to trick your Eastern neighbors together with Russians, against general interest of EU as whole... if that project didn't start and any trading with Russia had to continue through Ukraine, we would have no war in the first place. So you can kiss Schroeder's
    ass for your current inflation, my friend.

    All the social politics still exploited way too much by the former DDR
    part of your country that still is not compatible with Western Germany ethos it seems.

    Germany is not one consistent country like it would like to show itself to the world... You're internally so divided and moments of weakness in the world like we have today just exposes that heavily, yet many of you still think you can lead EU toward its better future while you can't secure your own.

    Germany is not a voice of Europe for a while and that is also a big
    surprise to many of you.

    First of all there is no single voice of Europe and that what also recent decade has shown very well (With Brexit included).

    Your cars are crap comparing to their past glory. Chinese BYD is superior
    to Audi in many ways... And even on top of your tech.. Czechs currently make the best German cars (Skoda) not Germans.. so I'm not suprised for closing the
    plants, maybe moving them to more competent engineering countries can help rescue the position... I drive SKoda and if they only could just fucking replace the crappy DSG transmission to some tech other than VW as electromechanics in it can't stand 60k KM without serious life risking failure.

    I live in Poland, work with Germans and I am quite often in Germany since like forever... (if I can call Mahmud, Mayur and Ermanno Germans tho, so more
    in German territory than Germans these days, unless in small town Bavaria, Turks from the 80s fairly included, often good fellows), and I can't fucking drive 100km on your highways without seeing reconstructions taking long years... the most famous one - A4 close to Dresden, you can't repair 30km of the crucial part of the belt road, heading west, for 15 years now... primarily
    because of the bureaucracy you're so famous of, internationally, plus this is
    Saxony...

    and as "meinen Bayerische Freunde haben gesagt: Sachsen Leute, andere Leute" which just proves there is no unity between Germans if you're close enough to
    discover.

    I live in Poland, which is currently, I think, the most Trump-compatible country in EU and albeit inflation and turbulences... we're still growing and
    with completely different view on the EU politics and problematics than DE, which in our general opinion lost its vision for the future and together with France is putting EU into its doom.

    So ...

    Here in europe most of "us" think, his 2nd period of office/terms will get even worse.

    ... Is actually not the case.


    My opinion is that electing this or that US president is the right of American
    people, not anybody else... and if anybody outside US, particularly in Europe,
    cries because of the results, it only means that that particular country and EU
    as a whole is weak... not Trump particularly strong.

    Problem solving should start home not by commenting other countries with negativity.. and this is actually what Trump understands well as I hear him.

    I strongly believe it will be an interesting wake up call for Europe or a final
    confirmation that it doesn't work and should be reformed or disbanded. I still
    believe the last scenario would be really bad for most Europeans... so I really
    hope for the wake up call.

    For Americans... I'm sure you'll have hell of a TV Show for the next years to
    come. I start making some popcorn and freezing my coke so I'm prepared to consume it all together.

    -h1

    ... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.
    --- SBBSecho 3.20-Linux
    * Origin: capitolcityonline.net * Telnet/SSH:2022/HTTP (723:320/1)

    Hi Hollowone

    You are absolutely right! Imigration of so much people is a problem for every social
    system like our's. And I don't know, if other car manufactors would have the same problems, like VW and Audi. But that's the actual news here in germany.

    But we wrote about VW, the higher prices for living (in the states) and the possible
    reason, why the american people voted for a person like Donald Trump. 1st thing I
    wanna give a feedback, that we also have "problems" with the higher prices for living since... guess!

    And believe me... I personally don't think the German government is in charge here
    in Europe. We are all a part of europe! And when a German politician conveys this
    feeling, it is not necessarily in the interest of the German population and probably
    not what ÿusÿ wanted either!

    The politicans here are very slow for any decicion and far far away from the normal
    citizens worries and needs! (but that's my personal opinion only!!!).
    And that explains why nothing is moving forward here in Germany (also my opinion)!

    We'll see where this leads soon, when new elections are held in hopefully early 2025.

    If the new goverment is like the before, nothing will change here! I think it would be
    good for the politicians to think "back to the roots". So, where the economic, social and
    school systems were still functioning... We would be then in the 70s and 80s!!

    And I have no problems with an east or west germany. We are germany! Not more, not
    less! That is what I feel about this!

    Have a nice day

    Mike

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dumas Walker on Tue Nov 12 09:30:58 2024
    Re: Re: Thanks America!
    By: Dumas Walker to SHITTY on Sun Nov 10 2024 11:05 am


    There have never been 2 totally awesome candidates, but there have been three straight elections now where there were either 2 totally not-good choices, or 2 totally questionable ones.


    well trump was president and he did a good job.
    our system is just broken. there's too much division and it's too easy to game the system if the differnet parties don't want to get along.

    I have followed govt meetings in the past about subjects I was interested in. they basically do nothing. Furthermore all our politicians server other masters like pharm companies and their own parties.
    ---
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dumas Walker on Tue Nov 12 09:33:35 2024
    Re: Re: Thanks America!
    By: Dumas Walker to SYS64738 on Sun Nov 10 2024 02:56 pm

    (2) will have to charge us a lot more for the products made here.

    The reason is that it is doubtful most unions are going to accept wages
    that are lower than the wages the company pays foreign workers + the cost
    to import the goods.

    unions don't even factor into this. infact, there's a lot of unions that don't even pay workers well.

    the thing is, in a lot of cases china just does everything better at a cheaper price.

    Look up china's industrial revolution. It just took a little over 30 years for them to turn everything around.
    ---
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  • From The Lizard Master@VERT/NITEEYES to Dr. What on Tue Nov 12 05:09:55 2024
    Re: Re: Thanks America!
    By: Dr. What to Shitty on Sat Nov 09 2024 01:19 pm

    People were watching and, mysteriously, there were 18 million less votes than in 2020 - which puts the number of votes cast about correct according to the last 5 years (other than 2020, of course).

    I heard about that and it's fascinating, and it needs investigating. 18 million voters didn't just decide not to vote this year "because of climate change."

    What's even more funny is that even the Wokies are demanding an investigation.

    But from their point of view, the problem was in 2024, and not in 2020.

    In any case, this does not bode well for the instigators of the 2020 election fraud.

    Votes are still being counted and the total gap is closing. Voting is anonymous, but who voted and where is not. There's nothing here for either side. If anyone is curious, ask the folks that stayed home this time.

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  • From hollowone@VERT/BEERS20 to Mike on Tue Nov 12 12:54:00 2024
    You are absolutely right! Imigration of so much people is a problem for every social
    system like our's. And I don't know, if other car manufactors would have the same problems, like VW and Audi. But that's the actual news here in germany.

    I'm sure it's hard to swallow. Germany was always famous of its mechanical engineering excellence, sometimes hard to believe how quickly these qualities disappeared and companies at at this or that crisis + layoffs.

    reason, why the american people voted for a person like Donald Trump.
    1st thing I
    wanna give a feedback, that we also have "problems" with the higher
    prices for living since... guess!

    Prices come up and down for many reasons and I'd not exactly connect them with one president only.. World many miss has ended in 2001, it was globally exposed in 2008, militarily tested since 2014 and politically correct global love may actually not come back to the agenda in XXI century.

    That's pity, but true.

    Simple people try to make their voice, regardless how much toward successful outcome we're just changing historic eras now... in more than a single country in the world.

    Can be difficult to adapt, but should not be surprising, considering last 20 years and its major events.

    We'll see where this leads soon, when new elections are held in
    hopefully early 2025.

    Doesn't it seem that every election in every country these days seems to be historically important? And missing one and 4-7 years in effect may actually doom "you" and "your country" in the global arena if missed the opportunity?

    I sometimes get that feeling regardless who "you" and "your country" could be in particular example.


    Have a nice day

    Likewise.

    -h1

    ... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.
  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MRO on Tue Nov 12 18:29:00 2024
    Hello MRO!

    ** On Tuesday 12.11.24 - 09:33, MRO wrote to Dumas Walker:


    the thing is, in a lot of cases china just does everything better at a cheaper price.

    "everything" even includes paying workers very low wages. they
    are a highly repressed and surveilled peoples. maybe the top engineers/designers do well but the quality of life of factory
    workers is very low. production in China is not on an even
    playing field with other country's worker/employer policies.

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  • From hollowone@VERT/BEERS20 to Ogg on Tue Nov 12 22:46:00 2024
    "everything" even includes paying workers very low wages. they
    are a highly repressed and surveilled peoples. maybe the top engineers/designers do well but the quality of life of factory
    workers is very low. production in China is not on an even
    playing field with other country's worker/employer policies.

    That perspective comes purely from our outside view. Considering how their cities and infrastructure looks comparing to 30-50 years ago.. I'd say standard of living in China significantly improved even for simple people.

    When I discussed China 20 years ago it was obvious that they are one big offshore country with little to no domestic market... but it'd be funny to observe they have a domestic market, then global numbers in many cases may change.. Like Microsoft's situation I was discussing then with their 95% dominance in the windows Market... I'd say just 500M of Chinese using their own local operating system would change this value dramatically.

    Things like that are happening today, from OS to BYD cars.. still changing lives of 1B of people is not what happens over night and they of course have a very oppressive system in the way we see the values...

    But I talked to many Chinese that you'd consider middle class and they seem to be happy and confident. and if they only had 5% of such people in their country, we're still talking about 70 millions of happy and prospering people, which may be already more than US-counterpart.

    If they had 20% of such then they'd have more happy and regular-life-rich people than whole population of USA...

    Such numbers trigger a lot of imagination.

    -h1

    ... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Ogg on Wed Nov 13 08:39:09 2024
    Re: Thanks America!
    By: Ogg to MRO on Tue Nov 12 2024 06:29 pm

    Hello MRO!

    ** On Tuesday 12.11.24 - 09:33, MRO wrote to Dumas Walker:


    the thing is, in a lot of cases china just does everything better at a cheaper price.

    "everything" even includes paying workers very low wages. they
    are a highly repressed and surveilled peoples. maybe the top engineers/designers do well but the quality of life of factory
    workers is very low. production in China is not on an even
    playing field with other country's worker/employer policies.

    that's what you've been told. how do you know that's not bullshit.

    you're in canada, right? to me your country is just as bad as you described china.

    internet says avg wage for chinese employee is over 50k usd. that's pretty decent for an avg wage.

    furthermore, there are many differences. food prices, living costs, apartment prices.

    do you realize chinese people are buying property abroad like crazy? in the usa and canada?

    they aren't poor people wearing their little triangle hats.
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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANTIR to Mike on Wed Nov 13 08:22:33 2024
    Re: Re: Thanks America!
    By: Mike to Arelor on Mon Nov 11 2024 09:11 am

    But what is better? Inflation or price stability?
    I think price stability, because the price spiral wouldn't continue!
    If the market goes crazy, "just" because of Corona/Ukraine and, for example, cooking oil
    costs twice as much from one day to the next!!!...the goverment should intervene
    and force the company to charge the old price again! Because, in this case, the warehouses in Germany were still filled with the cooking oil. I could call a lot of these
    examples where Article raised in the price from day to the next day!

    That is not the dichotomy. The real question is "what is better, expensive goods or scarcity?"

    Blaming the pandemic and the Ukrainian crisis is easy, but both the US and the EU have done everythign they could to crash their respective economies and they started well before the 2020's. You can only go so far after you debase your currency and start printing fiat money like crazy. The US in particular has been overproducing American Dollar to sell to developed countries so they could partake in international trades and deals; now the world is flooded with more USD than the world's population needs to use. Hence price crash.

    I take price manipulation of agricultural products quite seriously because I have horses and I take a hit every time hay and grain fluctuates. My experience is that when somebody is an asshole and keeps hay with the expectation of selling it for more than it is worth he ends up crawling to me and begging me to buy it for cheap some months afterwards, because this sort of stuff takes a lot of room to store and they need the warehouse clean so they can keep the next's season production. This is when I am very skeptical about claims of "Economic Warfare" with oil and corn and the like.

    But the reading people does not take is this one: if I am keeping oil unsold because I don't think it is a good moment to sell it, and I am forced to sell it, the next year NOBODY will produce oil at all. From a finantial perspective, keeping prime mater in storage is a bit like saving your money because you are scared things are going to go bad and you may need to use your savings in the future. When they take your savings away from you you stop saving.


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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANTIR to MRO on Wed Nov 13 08:27:59 2024
    Re: Re: Thanks America!
    By: MRO to Dumas Walker on Tue Nov 12 2024 09:33 am

    the thing is, in a lot of cases china just does everything better at a cheaper price.

    Actually I am concerned because China has stopped being a factory for cheap junk and they are now producing quality stuff.

    Meanwhile any industrial process in Europe downs itself in corporative and administrative paperwork, and the vibes I get from workers in many sectors is apathy runs wild. Nobody cares if stuff gets done at all. We in the West have build an Empire of Mediocrity where apt workers are perceived as a threat by their mates and they will be pulled down, therefore nobody wants to be an apt worker anymore.

    Payback is a bitch and we are getting it all.


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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANTIR to Ogg on Wed Nov 13 08:35:28 2024
    Re: Thanks America!
    By: Ogg to MRO on Tue Nov 12 2024 06:29 pm

    "everything" even includes paying workers very low wages. they
    are a highly repressed and surveilled peoples. maybe the top engineers/designers do well but the quality of life of factory
    workers is very low. production in China is not on an even
    playing field with other country's worker/employer policies.

    True, but there is another reading.

    A friend of mine once worked for a company that performed engineering tasks with a chinesse associate in Asia. He once ran the numbers because he was sure he could save a ton of money and issues by replacing chinesse workers by machines. It turns out he was utterly wrong.

    Those workers didn't protest, didn't strike, didn't complain, their equipment was inexpensive. It turns out replacing 20 guys with a helmet, wheelchart and shovel each by a single guy with a heavy vehicle wasn't a sound decision at all.

    I think in the long run Chinesse workers will see their living standards raise. In fact some say China is starting to see the begining of this crisis. This is probably one of the reasons why the Uniparty there has started pushing for traditional family models in order to have a woman take care of the kids while the man works outside.


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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to THE LIZARD MASTER on Wed Nov 13 10:00:00 2024
    Votes are still being counted and the total gap is closing. Voting is anonymous, but who voted and where is not. There's nothing here for either side. If anyone is curious, ask the folks that stayed home this time.

    So far I have not met anyone that admitted to staying home and not voting
    who did vote in 2020 (or who didn't, for that matter).

    Anyone here who is an eligible US voter who wants to discuss the reasons
    they voted in 2020 but not in 2024?


    * SLMR 2.1a * "Energize"he said & a pink bunny with a drum materialized
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Dumas Walker on Wed Nov 13 09:52:29 2024
    Re: Re: Thanks America!
    By: Dumas Walker to THE LIZARD MASTER on Wed Nov 13 2024 10:00 am

    Anyone here who is an eligible US voter who wants to discuss the reasons they voted in 2020 but not in 2024?

    I was actually the opposite - I'll admit I didn't vote in 2020 but I voted this time. Last time, the only presidential candidates were Biden and Trump, and there were no alternate candidates. I felt like it was literally down to only 2 bad choices, and I didn't particularly like either.

    Nightfox

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Arelor on Wed Nov 13 13:01:43 2024
    Re: Re: Thanks America!
    By: Arelor to MRO on Wed Nov 13 2024 08:27 am

    Re: Re: Thanks America!
    By: MRO to Dumas Walker on Tue Nov 12 2024 09:33 am

    the thing is, in a lot of cases china just does everything better at a cheaper price.

    Actually I am concerned because China has stopped being a factory for cheap junk and they are now producing quality stuff.

    Meanwhile any industrial process in Europe downs itself in corporative and administrative paperwork, and the vibes I get from workers in many sectors is apathy runs wild. Nobody cares if stuff gets done at all. We in the West have build an Empire of Mediocrity where apt workers are perceived as a threat by their mates and they will be pulled down, therefore nobody wants to be an apt worker anymore.

    Payback is a bitch and we are getting it all.


    yep you snooze you lose. Most the people i see 30 and under have an aweful work ethic. I thought i didn't give a shit until i saw these people.

    Look at how china has taken over everything important. Why was everyone so quiet while this happened?
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Arelor on Wed Nov 13 13:03:50 2024
    Re: Thanks America!
    By: Arelor to Ogg on Wed Nov 13 2024 08:35 am

    wheelchart and shovel each by a single guy with a heavy vehicle wasn't a sound decision at all.

    I think in the long run Chinesse workers will see their living standards raise. In fact some say China is starting to see the begining of this crisis. This is probably one of the reasons why the Uniparty there has started pushing for traditional family models in order to have a woman take care of the kids while the man works outside.


    from what i've seen of chinese working class, a lot of them are just functional alcoholics. they dont have a problem with busting their ass, going home to eat rice and then getting drunk as hell every night in a little apartment.

    but damn look at how they eat at their companies. the vids i've seen are pretty impressive. I eat a peanutbutter sandwich on one slice of bread for lunch at work.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dumas Walker on Wed Nov 13 13:05:35 2024
    Re: Re: Thanks America!
    By: Dumas Walker to THE LIZARD MASTER on Wed Nov 13 2024 10:00 am

    Votes are still being counted and the total gap is closing. Voting is anonymous, but who voted and where is not. There's nothing here for either side. If anyone is curious, ask the folks that stayed home this time.

    So far I have not met anyone that admitted to staying home and not voting who did vote in 2020 (or who didn't, for that matter).

    Anyone here who is an eligible US voter who wants to discuss the reasons they voted in 2020 but not in 2024?



    you just met one. it's me. i voted in 2020 but didn't in 2024 because I knew whoever pulls the strings really decides the outcome. there was a reason why the fix was in and trump won this time. there was a reason why there wasn't some trick pulled by democrats. Those rich guys in charge made it happen.
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to MRO on Wed Nov 13 12:15:33 2024
    Re: Re: Thanks America!
    By: MRO to Arelor on Wed Nov 13 2024 01:01 pm

    Look at how china has taken over everything important. Why was everyone so quiet while this happened?

    I wonder how much of that is due to their work ethic and how much is just due to companies choosing to have their products made in China due to the lower cost of labor.

    But also, I've heard one of the reasons why there are a lot of chip manufacturing facilities in China is because there's a lot of knowledge and skill there to do it well. I'm sure we could replicate that in the US though.

    Also, I've seen a video of a fully automated shipping port that I thought was pretty impressive. Shipping containers can be dropped there, and it's all sorted by robots, and ships can come pick up and drop off containers fairly easily.

    Nightfox

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  • From Ogg@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MRO on Wed Nov 13 18:29:00 2024
    Hello MRO!

    internet says avg wage for chinese employee is over 50k usd. that's
    pretty decent for an avg wage.

    my internet search indicated 97000 yuan for the average factory
    worker. that's about $13k USD. hard to buy luxury properties
    abroad with that kind of money.

    furthermore, there are many differences. food prices, living costs, apartment prices.

    sure.

    do you realize chinese people are buying property abroad like crazy? in
    the usa and canada?

    Of course there is a segment of china that is rich, but not the
    vast majority of workers.

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  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to MRO on Thu Nov 14 10:01:00 2024
    Look at how china has taken over everything important. Why was everyone so quiet while this happened?

    IMHO, some of the powers that be c2008-2016 wanted this to happen so they
    could turn around and make the USA seem "green" while all the pollution we
    once created was now being created somewhere else.


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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Ogg on Thu Nov 14 11:06:30 2024
    Re: Thanks America!
    By: Ogg to MRO on Wed Nov 13 2024 06:29 pm

    Hello MRO!

    internet says avg wage for chinese employee is over 50k usd. that's pretty decent for an avg wage.

    my internet search indicated 97000 yuan for the average factory
    worker. that's about $13k USD. hard to buy luxury properties
    abroad with that kind of money.

    oh i think google pulled up the results of some spam site
    anyways, their cost of living is differnet. there are many differences.

    Also not all factory jobs are the same and pay the same. i've worked in mfg
    for 29 years. i've made more money than what they are hiring now for people with advanced degrees on indeed.

    How do they buy properties? by pooling resources. the family works together. that's another thing we as westerners dont understand. one family member gets
    a shot, then money is made off the property, then the next year or 2 another family member gets their shot.

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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Dumas Walker on Thu Nov 14 11:07:13 2024
    Re: Re: Thanks America!
    By: Dumas Walker to MRO on Thu Nov 14 2024 10:01 am

    Look at how china has taken over everything important. Why was everyone so quiet while this happened?

    IMHO, some of the powers that be c2008-2016 wanted this to happen so they could turn around and make the USA seem "green" while all the pollution we once created was now being created somewhere else.

    yeah could be. 'china is the biggest polluter!!' no shit, they make everything!
    ---
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  • From Weed Hopper@VERT/LOCALYOC to Shitty on Tue Nov 12 12:08:10 2024
    Re: Re: Thanks America!
    By: Shitty to Nightfox on Sat Nov 09 2024 10:10 am

    just to name a few things.

    One thing that worries me a bit is that I've heard Trump wants to impos tariffs on imported goods, especially from China, where his tariffs would be higher. A lot of our electronic goods are made in China, and I'm worried this would mean higher prices for a lot of our goods. If you need a new refrigerator, washer, dryer, computer, etc., you may be paying more for it. Let alone things we might buy with disposable income, such as a game console, Raspberry Pi & accessories, and other such things.

    We've already experienced high inflation over the past few years, and w don't need further price increases.

    Some things are more important than a good price on a new refrigerator, like being alive long enough to eat the food that's stored in it.

    First I want to mention that the last time Trump was in office, tarrifs did not have any negative impact on pricing. China ate the cost and they will this time as well. In additon, O'Biden left the tarrifs in place because they are generating huge sums of money.

    I agree about being alive long enough to eat the food, but I also listened to someone explaining tarrifs the other day and the bottom line is they tend to be good for the country because it protects our industries from markets being flooded with products that have artificially lower cost. These products harm our competing industries.

    I'm definitely not an economy expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I do know that tarrifs funded the federal government prior to income taxes being implemented and the country seemed to be doing fine.

    Someone out there that knows more than me can do a better job of explaining

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  • From Weed Hopper@VERT/LOCALYOC to Nightfox on Tue Nov 12 12:10:05 2024
    Re: Re: Thanks America!
    By: Nightfox to Shitty on Sat Nov 09 2024 09:59 am

    Re: Re: Thanks America!
    By: Shitty to Nightfox on Sat Nov 09 2024 10:10 am

    Some things are more important than a good price on a new refrigerator, like being alive long enough to eat the food that's stored in it.

    I've seen a lot of people complain about cost of living and prices rising fairly fast over the past few years, and some have blamed it on the Biden administration. It has been one of the main concerns over the last few year If people want inflation to slow down under a new president, then Trump's tariffs are concerning.

    Nightfox


    The tarrifs he put in place when he was in office before didn't raise any prices. China ate the cost. O'Biden left the tarrifs in place due to the amount of revenue they generate.

    I could be wrong, but I think tarrifs will ultimately serve this country well.

    ---
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  • From Weed Hopper@VERT/LOCALYOC to Dr. What on Tue Nov 12 12:11:18 2024
    Re: Re: Thanks America!
    By: Dr. What to Shitty on Sat Nov 09 2024 01:19 pm

    Shitty wrote to Dr. What <=-

    People were watching and, mysteriously, there were 18 million less vote than in 2020 - which puts the number of votes cast about correct according to the last 5 years (other than 2020, of course).

    I heard about that and it's fascinating, and it needs investigating. 18 million voters didn't just decide not to vote this year "because of climate change."

    What's even more funny is that even the Wokies are demanding an investigatio

    But from their point of view, the problem was in 2024, and not in 2020.

    In any case, this does not bode well for the instigators of the 2020 electio fraud.


    ... Expert: "ex"=a has-been. "spert"=a drip under pressure.

    I know this will never happen, but the perpetrators should be found out, tried, and then hanged for Treason.

    ---
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  • From Weed Hopper@VERT/LOCALYOC to Arelor on Tue Nov 12 12:17:28 2024
    Re: Thanks America!
    By: Arelor to Nightfox on Sat Nov 09 2024 04:48 pm

    Re: Thanks America!
    By: Nightfox to Bf2k+ on Fri Nov 08 2024 11:18 am

    One thing that worries me a bit is that I've heard Trump wants to impose tariffs on imported goods, especially from China, where his tariffs would higher. A lot of our electronic goods are made in China, and I'm worried this would mean higher prices for a lot of our goods. If you need a new refrigerator, washer, dryer, computer, etc., you may be paying more for i Let alone things we might buy with disposable income, such as a game console, Raspberry Pi & accessories, and other such things.

    Welcome to the EU, where this problem is a given!

    IMO the issue there is not the presence or lack of tariffs, but the fact a former industrial powerhouse such as the US depends on importing that stuff today.


    --
    gopher://gopher.richardfalken.com/1/richardfalken



    I'm old enough to remember when American companies made their products in America. The products were affordable and a lot better made than the products you can buy now. Everything is designed to break.

    I also remember the lies told. "Oh, the quality will remain the same when we ship the jobs overseas, but the cost will be lower." I don't remember the specific lie about the fired factory workers that would occur when the jobs were moved, but I vaguely rememeber some mumbo jumbo about us moving from a factory based economy to an idea based economy.

    Bring back manufacturing, impose tarrifs, reduce taxes and I bet the economy starts to roar.

    ---
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  • From Mike@VERT/CAPCITY2 to Arelor on Thu Nov 14 08:08:18 2024
    On 13.11.2024 08:28, Arelor wrote to Mike:

    @TZUTC: -0600
    @MSGID: 27503.dove-deb@723:320/1 2b9a6c70
    @PID: Synchronet 3.20a-Linux master/96855645d Nov 02 202 GCC 11.2.0
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    @CHRS: CP437 2
    @NOTE: FSEditor.js v1.105
    Re: Re: Thanks America!
    By: Mike to Arelor on Mon Nov 11 2024 09:11 am

    But what is better? Inflation or price stability?
    I think price stability, because the price spiral wouldn't continue!
    If the market goes crazy, "just" because of Corona/Ukraine and, for example,
    cooking oil
    costs twice as much from one day to the next!!!...the goverment should intervene
    and force the company to charge the old price again! Because, in this case,
    the warehouses in Germany were still filled with the cooking oil. I could call a lot of these
    examples where Article raised in the price from day to the next day!

    That is not the dichotomy. The real question is "what is better, expensive goods or scarcity?"

    Blaming the pandemic and the Ukrainian crisis is easy, but both the US and the
    EU have done everythign they could to crash their respective economies and they
    started well before the 2020's. You can only go so far after you debase your currency and start printing fiat money like crazy. The US in particular has been overproducing American Dollar to sell to developed countries so they could
    partake in international trades and deals; now the world is flooded with more
    USD than the world's population needs to use. Hence price crash.

    I take price manipulation of agricultural products quite seriously because I have horses and I take a hit every time hay and grain fluctuates. My experience
    is that when somebody is an asshole and keeps hay with the expectation of selling it for more than it is worth he ends up crawling to me and begging me
    to buy it for cheap some months afterwards, because this sort of stuff takes a
    lot of room to store and they need the warehouse clean so they can keep the next's season production. This is when I am very skeptical about claims of "Economic Warfare" with oil and corn and the like.

    But the reading people does not take is this one: if I am keeping oil unsold because I don't think it is a good moment to sell it, and I am forced to sell
    it, the next year NOBODY will produce oil at all. From a finantial perspective,
    keeping prime mater in storage is a bit like saving your money because you are
    scared things are going to go bad and you may need to use your savings in the
    future. When they take your savings away from you you stop saving.


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    Dear Arelor

    First of all.. Thank you for your feedback!
    I'll just stick to the original topic and express my personal feelings and opinions,
    especially here in Germany!

    And I think, that raising prices for food, fuels, oil and in my example cooking oil,
    electricity and and and... was the wrongest way. Next step was... people "crying"
    for more income. Which income groups were hit the most? The middle class!

    The poor, who are financially supported by the state anyway, and the rich certainly not!

    So... Savings are a fine thing, if you have it!
    I'm always a bit skeptical when the media says that Germans have X amount of savings.
    A look at my accounts tells me otherwise.

    Likewise when our Federal Statistical Office reports the inflation rate every month.
    Shopping for groceries tells me often something different!

    But thats only my personal impressions here in gemany!!

    Greetings

    Mike


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  • From hollowone@VERT/BEERS20 to Arelor on Thu Nov 14 13:20:00 2024
    My experience is that when somebody is an asshole and keeps
    hay with the expectation of selling it for more than it is worth he ends up crawling to me and begging me to buy it for cheap some months afterwards,

    I had the same with fire wood last year and this year. Normally I want to buy enough for the winter as quickly as possible right after summer, cause in the past being late meant higher prices.

    These days being late gives me 25-30% discount as sellers were stuck with unsold stuff.

    -h1

    ... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.
  • From hollowone@VERT/BEERS20 to Arelor on Thu Nov 14 13:25:00 2024

    Actually I am concerned because China has stopped being a factory for cheap junk and they are now producing quality stuff.


    I'd more say, they have both, but yes; I'm quite often surprised that many Chinese premium products are really premium and with fairly acceptable price tag.

    Haier's washing machines and fridges as most notable discovery of last years!

    -h1

    ... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.
  • From hollowone@VERT/BEERS20 to Ogg on Thu Nov 14 13:33:00 2024

    my internet search indicated 97000 yuan for the average factory
    worker. that's about $13k USD. hard to buy luxury properties
    abroad with that kind of money.


    We're talking about simple jobs here within a country that most likely has lower costs of living than US, significantly.

    but from my experience from even 10-15 years ago in US.. seeing people on 1.5k USD monthly check was not that are at all...


    We had that 13-15k USD a year per capita by the end of 90s.. in Poland, now it's 3 times of that as average and just 20 years passed..

    Unfortunately costs of living also raised.. proportionally.

    -h1

    ... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.
  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Weed Hopper on Thu Nov 14 16:41:53 2024
    Re: Thanks America!
    By: Weed Hopper to Arelor on Tue Nov 12 2024 12:17 pm


    I'm old enough to remember when American companies made their products in America. The products were affordable and a lot better made than the products you can buy now. Everything is designed to break.


    are you sure a lot of that is just not delusional nostalgia that affects a lot of us? things just SEEMED better in the old days.

    specific lie about the fired factory workers that would occur when the jobs were moved, but I vaguely rememeber some mumbo jumbo about us moving from a factory based economy to an idea based economy.


    i remember something like that in the mid to late 90s. the thing is they knew nothing back then. they also thought that computers would take over everything and take away jobs from all the workers. that never happened.

    Bring back manufacturing, impose tarrifs, reduce taxes and I bet the economy starts to roar.

    i've been in mfg for 29 years. in my state mfg is still going strong. what we need to focus on is being good at things instead being the 3rd best at things.

    Bring back manufacturing, impose tarrifs, reduce taxes and I bet the economy starts to roar.

    politicians need to stop being on the take. american companies need to stop pulling bullshit on prices. This includes farmers (milk, eggs, chicken) soda, meat,etc. prices are high as fuck and many times there's no reason other than profit.

    so we have problems domestic and abroad with manufacturing.
    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Weed Hopper on Thu Nov 14 16:17:18 2024
    Re: Re: Thanks America!
    By: Weed Hopper to Nightfox on Tue Nov 12 2024 12:10 pm

    The tarrifs he put in place when he was in office before didn't raise any prices. China ate the cost. O'Biden left the tarrifs in place due to the amount of revenue they generate.

    I could be wrong, but I think tarrifs will ultimately serve this country well.

    It was my understanding that the entity (country/consumer) buying the goods from China would be the one that has to pay the tariffs. But I could be wrong.

    Nightfox

    ---
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  • From Nightfox@VERT/DIGDIST to Weed Hopper on Thu Nov 14 16:25:31 2024
    Re: Thanks America!
    By: Weed Hopper to Arelor on Tue Nov 12 2024 12:17 pm

    I'm old enough to remember when American companies made their products in America. The products were affordable and a lot better made than the products you can buy now. Everything is designed to break.

    What products, specifically? I think over the last 70 or 80 years or so, manufacturing quality has probably gone up across the baord everywhere. I think there are a lot of products where the process to build them are improved over time. I've seen this in what people say about guitars - A lot of the budget guitars sold in the US are made in other countries (Mexico, China, Indonesia, and Korea, among others). It used to be that a lot of people would say US-made guitars are better in quality, but these days, I've seen a lot of reviews of such guitars saying their build quality is excellent.

    Similarly, with cars, in the 80s, I remember hearing about quality problems with cars from American companies. I think American car makers have learned and have gotten better since then. But also, some American car companies have factories in Mexico and other countries that make some of their cars.

    Nightfox

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  • From Accession@VERT/PHARCYDE to MRO on Thu Nov 14 18:18:54 2024
    Hello MRO,

    On Thu, Nov 14 2024 16:41:53 -0600, you wrote:

    are you sure a lot of that is just not delusional nostalgia that affects a lot of us? things just SEEMED better in the old days.

    Perfect example = Tonka trucks.

    Regards,
    Nick

    ... He who laughs last, thinks slowest.
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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANTIR to Ogg on Fri Nov 15 03:35:48 2024
    Re: Thanks America!
    By: Ogg to MRO on Wed Nov 13 2024 06:29 pm


    my internet search indicated 97000 yuan for the average factory
    worker. that's about $13k USD. hard to buy luxury properties
    abroad with that kind of money.


    As far as I know, the Chinesse people you see abroad got permission from their Uniparty. I suspect only the "good Chinesse" gets to go abroad.


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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANTIR to hollowone on Fri Nov 15 03:51:26 2024
    Re: Re: Thanks America!
    By: hollowone to Arelor on Thu Nov 14 2024 01:20 pm


    I had the same with fire wood last year and this year. Normally I want to buy enough for the winter as quickly as possible right after summer, cause in the past being late meant higher prices.

    These days being late gives me 25-30% discount as sellers were stuck with unsold stuff.


    It used to be like that with hay. If you got it recent, it was cheaper. If you got it off-season, sellers thought you were buying because you were low on supplies and tried to squeeze as many EUR as they could out of you.

    The end result is lots of shepherds, cowboys and horse aficionados ended up setting their own fields because they got tired of dealing with this crap.

    Wood fire is not popular for house heating in Spain, though. Firewood is regarded as a poorman's resource. Nearly everybody uses gas for house heating, or fuel-oil. People who wants solid fuels tend to use pellets, which are a bit of a scam if you ask me.

    I burn horse poop because I am a cheap ass. \o/


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  • From Arelor@VERT/PALANTIR to MRO on Fri Nov 15 04:07:33 2024
    Re: Thanks America!
    By: MRO to Weed Hopper on Thu Nov 14 2024 04:41 pm

    I'm old enough to remember when American companies made their products in America. The products were affordable and a lot better made than the products you can buy now. Everything is designed to break.


    are you sure a lot of that is just not delusional nostalgia that affects a lot of us? things just SEEMED better in the old days.

    I don't know about the manufactured products, but I get a very bad feeling when I listen to old radio shows (think 1930) and compare their commercials with the ones we have now.

    The feeling you get when listening to a commercial or sponsored segment from back in the 30s or 40s is that whoever made it wanted to do a good job and also wanted to provide a service to the end user. They took much more care to explain what the product was, how it worked that sort of thing. Lots of business deals were considered a long term thing so they really tried to attract customers. There was a coal supply company that would do free maintenance on your chimney and stoves if you were a known customer. They also sent you a sample ton on request.

    Think of it. A sample ton of coal.

    Advertisements today are made for people with null attention spans and the idea is to get people to jump ship on impulses.


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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Accession on Fri Nov 15 07:30:07 2024
    Re: Re: Thanks America!
    By: Accession to MRO on Thu Nov 14 2024 06:18 pm

    Hello MRO,

    On Thu, Nov 14 2024 16:41:53 -0600, you wrote:

    are you sure a lot of that is just not delusional nostalgia that affects a lot of us? things just SEEMED better in the old days.

    Perfect example = Tonka trucks.

    Regards,
    Nick

    oh i used to play for hours in the dirt with my tonka truck. and when it got rusty my grandpa gave me a pen with yellow paint and I'd draw over the rust.
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  • From MRO@VERT/BBSESINF to Arelor on Fri Nov 15 07:33:42 2024
    Re: Thanks America!
    By: Arelor to MRO on Fri Nov 15 2024 04:07 am

    The feeling you get when listening to a commercial or sponsored segment from back in the 30s or 40s is that whoever made it wanted to do a good job and also wanted to provide a service to the end user. They took much more care to explain what the product was, how it worked that sort of thing. Lots of business deals were considered a long term thing so they really tried to attract customers. There was a coal supply company that would do free

    people used to think differently back then. now we are impulse shoppers. i'm a super consumer. i buy things to make myself happy. it wasnt like that back then. it's simple.

    business deals were considered a long term thing so they really tried to attract customers. There was a coal supply company that would do free maintenance on your chimney and stoves if you were a known customer. They also sent you a sample ton on request.

    Think of it. A sample ton of coal.

    i'm sure that didn't last long. or you got one free visit. that shit costs money. a company would go out of business doing that.

    Advertisements today are made for people with null attention spans and the idea is to get people to jump ship on impulses.


    back in the day people had less money. so you had to woo the housewife watching to really get her to talk to the breadwinner to make a big purchase. People think the old days were like leave it to beaver. It wasn't. people worked hard. genx people should have talked to their grand parents more.
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  • From hollowone@VERT/BEERS20 to Arelor on Fri Nov 15 07:06:00 2024
    Wood fire is not popular for house heating in Spain, though. Firewood is regarded as a poorman's resource. Nearly everybody uses gas for house heating, or fuel-oil. People who wants solid fuels tend to use pellets, which are a bit of a scam if you ask me.

    Well we do have gas a primary heater resource too, but it's coming back to fashion to have a chimney and fire it up in the winter, just for the style.

    ANd I like it too so I buy 3-4 cubics every year so I can have a nice winter time reading and glass of wine at the fire place.

    Nothing replaces the heat from wood being on fire... the temperature, the smell of it... its humidity... all things lovely and if you conside a cubic of oak costs you about 200 EUR and gas still has subsidies here then I'd not call it poor's man way :)

    It's more about blaming me to produce extra CO2 than being poor as general feedback.

    -h1

    ... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to HOLLOWONE on Fri Nov 15 09:44:00 2024
    I'd more say, they have both, but yes; I'm quite often surprised that many Chinese premium products are really premium and with fairly acceptable price tag.

    Haier's washing machines and fridges as most notable discovery of last years!

    Since Haier recently purchased GE's appliance division, they are making
    Haier products (mostly labeled as GE) in the US now.


    * SLMR 2.1a * I won't use Windows, I won't use Windows, I won't....
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  • From hollowone@VERT/BEERS20 to Dumas Walker on Sat Nov 16 11:44:00 2024

    Since Haier recently purchased GE's appliance division, they are making Haier products (mostly labeled as GE) in the US now.

    Yep, they acquired a lot of US/EU brands recently.

    -h1

    ... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to HOLLOWONE on Sun Nov 17 12:54:00 2024
    Since Haier recently purchased GE's appliance division, they are making Haier products (mostly labeled as GE) in the US now.

    Yep, they acquired a lot of US/EU brands recently.

    Which is something I think we should be concerned about.


    * SLMR 2.1a * Welcome to last years meeting of the Procrastinators Club
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  • From hollowone@VERT/BEERS20 to Dumas Walker on Tue Nov 19 03:01:00 2024
    Yep, they acquired a lot of US/EU brands recently.

    Which is something I think we should be concerned about.

    Well... they have the real money, not the printed ones... I think since 2008 more than US, I'd say.. and they keep spending it wisely to expand influence and grab back tech spec so their native brands can be top notch advanced.

    I think that's part of the strategy.

    -h1

    ... Xerox Alto was the thing. Anything after we use is just a mere copy.
  • From Dumas Walker@VERT/CAPCITY2 to HOLLOWONE on Wed Nov 20 09:05:00 2024
    Yep, they acquired a lot of US/EU brands recently.

    Which is something I think we should be concerned about.

    Well... they have the real money, not the printed ones... I think since 2008 more than US, I'd say.. and they keep spending it wisely to expand influence and grab back tech spec so their native brands can be top notch advanced.

    I think that's part of the strategy.

    Meanwhile they (the Chinese) are also up to things like this:

    https://gcaptain.com/details-of-baltic-sea-cable-incident-remain-murky-as- danish-coast-guard-shadows-chinese-vessel/

    https://tinyurl.com/vsy8jsf8


    * SLMR 2.1a * Pass the tequila, Manuel...
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