For the last couple of weeks More4 programmes recorded on my Humax
Aura Freeview box have been experiencing signal break up, ranging from
being a minor irritation to unwatchable. The other channels, mainly
BBC and Channel 4, have been OK.
Any ideas? Signals received from Waltham, about 18 miles.
If it had been affecting all channels I would point the finger at
nearby woodland that required the aerial to be raised a few years ago.
If it had been affecting all channels I would point the finger at
nearby woodland that required the aerial to be raised a few years ago.
For the last couple of weeks More4 programmes recorded on my Humax
Aura Freeview box have been experiencing signal break up, ranging from
being a minor irritation to unwatchable. The other channels, mainly
BBC and Channel 4, have been OK.
Any ideas? Signals received from Waltham, about 18 miles.
If it had been affecting all channels I would point the finger at
nearby woodland that required the aerial to be raised a few years ago.
Could be HDMI interference. Try moving all your leads including the RF cable.
On 02/12/2022 18:24, Peter Johnson wrote:
If it had been affecting all channels I would point the finger at
nearby woodland that required the aerial to be raised a few years ago.
Obstructions, and particularly unwanted reflections, will affect different frequencies differently, which means that they can knock out individual multiplexes. Some multiplexes may be marginal, in the first place, so any loss of strength may be enough to take them out.
On 02/12/2022 18:24, Peter Johnson wrote:
For the last couple of weeks More4 programmes recorded on my HumaxCould be HDMI interference. Try moving all your leads including the RF
Aura Freeview box have been experiencing signal break up, ranging from
being a minor irritation to unwatchable. The other channels, mainly
BBC and Channel 4, have been OK.
Any ideas? Signals received from Waltham, about 18 miles.
If it had been affecting all channels I would point the finger at
nearby woodland that required the aerial to be raised a few years ago.
cable.
On 02/12/2022 18:24, Peter Johnson wrote:
For the last couple of weeks More4 programmes recorded on my Humax
Aura Freeview box have been experiencing signal break up, ranging from
being a minor irritation to unwatchable. The other channels, mainly
BBC and Channel 4, have been OK.
Any ideas? Signals received from Waltham, about 18 miles.
If it had been affecting all channels I would point the finger at
nearby woodland that required the aerial to be raised a few years ago.
Are you sure Channel 4 is not affected too, because More 4 and C4 (along
with ITV 1, and C5) all share the same mux (for SD versions).
However are you referring to C4 HD or C4 SD ? C4 HD is on a different
mux to More 4 SD ?
If More 4's mux is affected, I'd expect the same for the SD versions of
ITV, C4, and C5
On Fri, 2 Dec 2022 18:28:38 +0000, Mark CarverIt's the PSB 2 Mux, that's UHF Ch 34. If you have a signal strength
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 02/12/2022 18:24, Peter Johnson wrote:I knew there would be something else that I should have mentioned. C4
For the last couple of weeks More4 programmes recorded on my HumaxAre you sure Channel 4 is not affected too, because More 4 and C4 (along
Aura Freeview box have been experiencing signal break up, ranging from
being a minor irritation to unwatchable. The other channels, mainly
BBC and Channel 4, have been OK.
Any ideas? Signals received from Waltham, about 18 miles.
If it had been affecting all channels I would point the finger at
nearby woodland that required the aerial to be raised a few years ago.
with ITV 1, and C5) all share the same mux (for SD versions).
However are you referring to C4 HD or C4 SD ? C4 HD is on a different
mux to More 4 SD ?
If More 4's mux is affected, I'd expect the same for the SD versions of
ITV, C4, and C5
is viewed in HD. Looks as though I'll have to blame the trees. They
must have made a growth spurt during the autumn. I'll try C4 SD to
confirm it though.
On Fri, 2 Dec 2022 18:28:38 +0000, Mark Carver
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 02/12/2022 18:24, Peter Johnson wrote:
For the last couple of weeks More4 programmes recorded on my Humax
Aura Freeview box have been experiencing signal break up, ranging from
being a minor irritation to unwatchable. The other channels, mainly
BBC and Channel 4, have been OK.
Any ideas? Signals received from Waltham, about 18 miles.
If it had been affecting all channels I would point the finger at
nearby woodland that required the aerial to be raised a few years ago.
Are you sure Channel 4 is not affected too, because More 4 and C4 (along
with ITV 1, and C5) all share the same mux (for SD versions).
However are you referring to C4 HD or C4 SD ? C4 HD is on a different
mux to More 4 SD ?
If More 4's mux is affected, I'd expect the same for the SD versions of
ITV, C4, and C5
I knew there would be something else that I should have mentioned. C4
is viewed in HD. Looks as though I'll have to blame the trees. They
must have made a growth spurt during the autumn. I'll try C4 SD to
confirm it though.
DVB-T2 used on HD is a different format to DVB-T1 used on SD and is muchAll other things being equal, which is unlikely.
more resilient with poor or degraded signals. I would have expected the issues to be with the SD channels if tree growth is the cause.
DVB-T2 used on HD is a different format to DVB-T1 used on SD and is much
more resilient with poor or degraded signals.
On Sat, 3 Dec 2022 19:38:01 +0000, Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:I'm inclined to agree, it's not dramatically different, and arguable
DVB-T2 used on HD is a different format to DVB-T1 used on SD and is muchI wouldn't say "much more". In fact my personal experience (of 2
more resilient with poor or degraded signals.
receiving systems) is it's ever so slightly worse.
For the last couple of weeks More4 programmes recorded on my Humax
Aura Freeview box have been experiencing signal break up, ranging from
being a minor irritation to unwatchable. The other channels, mainly
BBC and Channel 4, have been OK.
Any ideas? Signals received from Waltham, about 18 miles.
If it had been affecting all channels I would point the finger at
nearby woodland that required the aerial to be raised a few years ago.
On Friday, 2 December 2022 at 18:24:03 UTC, Peter Johnson wrote:clears the problem.
For the last couple of weeks More4 programmes recorded on my HumaxMy dozy Toshiba TV overwrites channels from local transmitters with ones further (~75km) away if they are higher frequency during the scan, resulting in a lot of blocky video and unintelligible (Welsh) audio. A rescan on the individual transponders
Aura Freeview box have been experiencing signal break up, ranging from
being a minor irritation to unwatchable. The other channels, mainly
BBC and Channel 4, have been OK.
Any ideas? Signals received from Waltham, about 18 miles.
If it had been affecting all channels I would point the finger at
nearby woodland that required the aerial to be raised a few years ago.
On 07/12/2022 17:21, R. Mark Clayton wrote:clears the problem.
On Friday, 2 December 2022 at 18:24:03 UTC, Peter Johnson wrote:
For the last couple of weeks More4 programmes recorded on my HumaxMy dozy Toshiba TV overwrites channels from local transmitters with ones further (~75km) away if they are higher frequency during the scan, resulting in a lot of blocky video and unintelligible (Welsh) audio. A rescan on the individual transponders
Aura Freeview box have been experiencing signal break up, ranging from
being a minor irritation to unwatchable. The other channels, mainly
BBC and Channel 4, have been OK.
Any ideas? Signals received from Waltham, about 18 miles.
If it had been affecting all channels I would point the finger at
nearby woodland that required the aerial to be raised a few years ago.
Depends how 'dozy' the telly is, it shouldn't overwrite anything, but
rather dump what it sees as 'surplus' at EPP Ch 800 onwards.
Always worth checking there for stronger/correct regional versions
On 07/12/2022 17:21, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
On Friday, 2 December 2022 at 18:24:03 UTC, Peter Johnson wrote:Depends how 'dozy' the telly is, it shouldn't overwrite anything, but
For the last couple of weeks More4 programmes recorded on my HumaxMy dozy Toshiba TV overwrites channels from local transmitters with
Aura Freeview box have been experiencing signal break up, ranging from
being a minor irritation to unwatchable. The other channels, mainly
BBC and Channel 4, have been OK.
Any ideas? Signals received from Waltham, about 18 miles.
If it had been affecting all channels I would point the finger at
nearby woodland that required the aerial to be raised a few years ago.
ones further (~75km) away if they are higher frequency during the
scan, resulting in a lot of blocky video and unintelligible (Welsh)
audio. A rescan on the individual transponders clears the problem.
rather dump what it sees as 'surplus' at EPP Ch 800 onwards.
Always worth checking there for stronger/correct regional versions
On Thu 08/12/2022 08:45, Mark Carver wrote:
On 07/12/2022 17:21, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
On Friday, 2 December 2022 at 18:24:03 UTC, Peter Johnson wrote:Depends how 'dozy' the telly is, it shouldn't overwrite anything, but
For the last couple of weeks More4 programmes recorded on my HumaxMy dozy Toshiba TV overwrites channels from local transmitters with
Aura Freeview box have been experiencing signal break up, ranging from >>>> being a minor irritation to unwatchable. The other channels, mainly
BBC and Channel 4, have been OK.
Any ideas? Signals received from Waltham, about 18 miles.
If it had been affecting all channels I would point the finger at
nearby woodland that required the aerial to be raised a few years ago.
ones further (~75km) away if they are higher frequency during the
scan, resulting in a lot of blocky video and unintelligible (Welsh)
audio. A rescan on the individual transponders clears the problem.
rather dump what it sees as 'surplus' at EPP Ch 800 onwards.
Always worth checking there for stronger/correct regional versions
This suggests that it is an old TV. Most TVs over the last decade or
more will offer the person doing the tuning the option of which
region, and which sub area they want to watch when the autotune is
completed.
The 800+ does often work when the TV is seeing the same region and
subregion during the tune and the TV doesn't offer area selection.
This can happen around here for users in certain locations where such
as Idle Hill (Bradford), Keighley, and even Tapton Hill (Sheffield)
cross swords with Emley Moor. If I am wrong I'm sure Bill will be
along to correct me, given where he lives!
My experience is opposite. None of my brother-in-law's tellies in
his house in Leamington Spa ever 'see' the town's relay (which is
easily available off the side of his Sutton Coldfield aerial) they
just store the Sutton Coldfield muxes, with nothing lurking in the
800+ range
Round here in Hanningtonland, often Crystal Palace, Rowridge,
and/or Oxford get dumped into the 800+ range.
A friend of mine of who has Oxford directly 'behind' Hannington for
his aerial ends up with some Oxford channels incorrectly assigned
to the main EPG, and Hannington dumped at 800+
On Thu 08/12/2022 08:45, Mark Carver wrote:
On 07/12/2022 17:21, R. Mark Clayton wrote:This suggests that it is an old TV. Most TVs over the last decade or
On Friday, 2 December 2022 at 18:24:03 UTC, Peter Johnson wrote:Depends how 'dozy' the telly is, it shouldn't overwrite anything, but rather dump what it sees as 'surplus' at EPP Ch 800 onwards.
For the last couple of weeks More4 programmes recorded on my HumaxMy dozy Toshiba TV overwrites channels from local transmitters with
Aura Freeview box have been experiencing signal break up, ranging from >>> being a minor irritation to unwatchable. The other channels, mainly
BBC and Channel 4, have been OK.
Any ideas? Signals received from Waltham, about 18 miles.
If it had been affecting all channels I would point the finger at
nearby woodland that required the aerial to be raised a few years ago.
ones further (~75km) away if they are higher frequency during the
scan, resulting in a lot of blocky video and unintelligible (Welsh)
audio. A rescan on the individual transponders clears the problem.
Always worth checking there for stronger/correct regional versions
more will offer the person doing the tuning the option of which region,
and which sub area they want to watch when the autotune is completed.
The 800+ does often work when the TV is seeing the same region and
subregion during the tune and the TV doesn't offer area selection. This
can happen around here for users in certain locations where such as Idle
Hill (Bradford), Keighley, and even Tapton Hill (Sheffield) cross swords
with Emley Moor. If I am wrong I'm sure Bill will be along to correct
me, given where he lives!
In article <jve2tdFcqtjU8@mid.individual.net>,
Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
My experience is opposite. None of my brother-in-law's tellies in
his house in Leamington Spa ever 'see' the town's relay (which is
easily available off the side of his Sutton Coldfield aerial) they
just store the Sutton Coldfield muxes, with nothing lurking in the
800+ range
Round here in Hanningtonland, often Crystal Palace, Rowridge,
and/or Oxford get dumped into the 800+ range.
A friend of mine of who has Oxford directly 'behind' Hannington for
his aerial ends up with some Oxford channels incorrectly assigned
to the main EPG, and Hannington dumped at 800+
It looks to me like TVs (certainly mine) scan from C21 upwards and
therefore see the lower frequencies first. These get stored in the
normal numbers and then when another transmitter/mux shows up later
in the scan, it gets dumped in the 800s. There may also be an
"adequate quality flag" such that a poor yet tuned mux *may* get
overwritten if a better signal is found later which seems logical but
I'm uncertain if I've observed that or not but for some reason, I
think I have.
I've always thought that TVs should provide a means for users to
block the tuning of certain UHF channels or indeed allow only the the
wanted channels such that you can get what you want without complex filtering.
On Thu 08/12/2022 15:11, Bob Latham wrote:
It looks to me like TVs (certainly mine) scan from C21 upwards
and therefore see the lower frequencies first. These get stored
in the normal numbers and then when another transmitter/mux shows
up later in the scan, it gets dumped in the 800s. There may also
be an "adequate quality flag" such that a poor yet tuned mux
*may* get overwritten if a better signal is found later which
seems logical but I'm uncertain if I've observed that or not but
for some reason, I think I have.
I've always thought that TVs should provide a means for users to
block the tuning of certain UHF channels or indeed allow only the
the wanted channels such that you can get what you want without
complex filtering.
As already noted, most TVs of the last 10 years or more, when they
finish the autotune if they have found other services they will
offer you up to three choices. Sitting here about half way between
Emley Moor and Bilsdale and within about 5deg of a straight line,
if I go autotune when it finishes I will get the first option:-
NE
Yorkshire
so I select Yorkshire. The next option is:-
Leeds
York
so I select Leeds (for local TV. Leeds comes from Emley Moor whereas
York comes from a cellular mast at Bilborough Top next to the A64
on the SW edge of York and within the beamwidth of most of York
residents watching Emley.)
I don't get a third option.
All of the unselected TTTV channels are dumped at 800 and above.
As already noted, most TVs of the last 10 years or more, when they
finish the autotune if they have found other services they will offer
you up to three choices. Sitting here about half way between Emley Moor
and Bilsdale and within about 5deg of a straight line, if I go autotune
when it finishes I will get the first option:-
NE
Yorkshire
so I select Yorkshire. The next option is:-
Leeds
York
so I select Leeds (for local TV. Leeds comes from Emley Moor whereas
York comes from a cellular mast at Bilborough Top next to the A64 on the
SW edge of York and within the beamwidth of most of York residents
watching Emley.)
I don't get a third option.
All of the unselected TTTV channels are dumped at 800 and above.
On 08/12/2022 16:05, Woody wrote:I would take a wild guess and say that the 'Emley' signal was either a reflection off the Wolds of the Scarborough Tx, or it was Belmont that
As already noted, most TVs of the last 10 years or more, when they
finish the autotune if they have found other services they will offer
you up to three choices. Sitting here about half way between Emley
Moor and Bilsdale and within about 5deg of a straight line, if I go
autotune when it finishes I will get the first option:-
NE
Yorkshire
so I select Yorkshire. The next option is:-
Leeds
York
so I select Leeds (for local TV. Leeds comes from Emley Moor whereas
York comes from a cellular mast at Bilborough Top next to the A64 on
the SW edge of York and within the beamwidth of most of York residents
watching Emley.)
I don't get a third option.
All of the unselected TTTV channels are dumped at 800 and above.
I'm surprised that once you have (indirectly) selected the transmitter
as Emley, the Bilsdale channels and the York local channel are even made visible with 800+ LCNs. I would have expected them not to be listed at all.
I've never lived anywhere that can receive muxes from more than one transmitter (*), so I don't know how TVs respond.
The problem comes when some muxes are strongest/least-noisy from one transmitter and some muxes are best from another transmitter. It is
probably best for a viewer in that situation to be able to choose (for example) Emley's PSB1 for BBC channels and Bilsdale's PSB2 for ITV
channels. My parents have a holiday cottage near Leyburn and due to an
aerial cable fault one regionalised mux (so one of the PSBs) was much stronger from Emley Moor than from Bilsdale, with a Bilsdale-facing
aerial. How the Emley signal managed to get over the hills separating Airedale from Wharfedale from Nidderdale from Wensleydale is a mystery:
the television engineer said he'd never seen anything like it. There may
have been some atmospheric lift at the time, but Bilsdale's muxes should still have been stronger than "lifted" Emley ones. Replacing the
downlead restored sanity: he chose to do that rather than first trying
to remake the connections at the aerial and at the wall socket, as being
the quicker/cheaper solution. This was with an old and primitive set-top
box as opposed to a modern TV with built-in digital tuner, so there was
no menu that allowed region/transmitter to be chosen.
[snip]
In article <tmt1vl$t557$1@dont-email.me>,
Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
On Thu 08/12/2022 15:11, Bob Latham wrote:
It looks to me like TVs (certainly mine) scan from C21 upwards
and therefore see the lower frequencies first. These get stored
in the normal numbers and then when another transmitter/mux shows
up later in the scan, it gets dumped in the 800s. There may also
be an "adequate quality flag" such that a poor yet tuned mux
*may* get overwritten if a better signal is found later which
seems logical but I'm uncertain if I've observed that or not but
for some reason, I think I have.
I've always thought that TVs should provide a means for users to
block the tuning of certain UHF channels or indeed allow only the
the wanted channels such that you can get what you want without
complex filtering.
As already noted, most TVs of the last 10 years or more, when they
finish the autotune if they have found other services they will
offer you up to three choices. Sitting here about half way between
Emley Moor and Bilsdale and within about 5deg of a straight line,
if I go autotune when it finishes I will get the first option:-
NE
Yorkshire
so I select Yorkshire. The next option is:-
Leeds
York
so I select Leeds (for local TV. Leeds comes from Emley Moor whereas
York comes from a cellular mast at Bilborough Top next to the A64
on the SW edge of York and within the beamwidth of most of York
residents watching Emley.)
I don't get a third option.
All of the unselected TTTV channels are dumped at 800 and above.
I've never been offered any choice of that type by the 6 TVs in my
house. Perhaps that's if the transmitters are for different TV
regions. I believe Brierley Hill and Wrekin are entirely the same
output as Sutton Coldfield, perhaps that's why.
In article <tmt1vl$t557$1@dont-email.me>,
Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
On Thu 08/12/2022 15:11, Bob Latham wrote:I've never been offered any choice of that type by the 6 TVs in my
It looks to me like TVs (certainly mine) scan from C21 upwardsAs already noted, most TVs of the last 10 years or more, when they
and therefore see the lower frequencies first. These get stored
in the normal numbers and then when another transmitter/mux shows
up later in the scan, it gets dumped in the 800s. There may also
be an "adequate quality flag" such that a poor yet tuned mux
*may* get overwritten if a better signal is found later which
seems logical but I'm uncertain if I've observed that or not but
for some reason, I think I have.
I've always thought that TVs should provide a means for users to
block the tuning of certain UHF channels or indeed allow only the
the wanted channels such that you can get what you want without
complex filtering.
finish the autotune if they have found other services they will
offer you up to three choices. Sitting here about half way between
Emley Moor and Bilsdale and within about 5deg of a straight line,
if I go autotune when it finishes I will get the first option:-
NE
Yorkshire
so I select Yorkshire. The next option is:-
Leeds
York
so I select Leeds (for local TV. Leeds comes from Emley Moor whereas
York comes from a cellular mast at Bilborough Top next to the A64
on the SW edge of York and within the beamwidth of most of York
residents watching Emley.)
I don't get a third option.
All of the unselected TTTV channels are dumped at 800 and above.
house. Perhaps that's if the transmitters are for different TV
regions. I believe Brierley Hill and Wrekin are entirely the same
output as Sutton Coldfield, perhaps that's why.
This suggests that it is an old TV. Most TVs over the last decade or
more will offer the person doing the tuning the option of which region,
and which sub area they want to watch when the autotune is completed.
The 800+ does often work when the TV is seeing the same region and
subregion during the tune and the TV doesn't offer area selection.
My now quite old Topfield, with its enhanced firmware/software, allows
me to tune to a specific transmitter. I've never seen that option on
any telly I've dealt with, presumbably because the telly manufactureres
wish to think the telly knows best.
On Saturday, 3 December 2022 at 19:38:04 UTC, Woody wrote:
DVB-T2 used on HD is a different format to DVB-T1 used on SD and is muchAll other things being equal, which is unlikely.
more resilient with poor or degraded signals. I would have expected the
issues to be with the SD channels if tree growth is the cause.
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