On 01/11/2022 16:33, SH wrote:
On 01/11/2022 15:49, sintv wrote:
Now free to view on Sky. Not sure about Freesat yet
https://rxtvinfo.com/2022/itv2-3-and-4-hd-to-go-free-to-air
Suitably equipped folk have today seen test PIDs etc in the Freesat SI,
so they are on their way to the platform too
On 01/11/2022 16:35, Mark Carver wrote:
On 01/11/2022 16:33, SH wrote:
On 01/11/2022 15:49, sintv wrote:
Now free to view on Sky. Not sure about Freesat yet
https://rxtvinfo.com/2022/itv2-3-and-4-hd-to-go-free-to-air
Suitably equipped folk have today seen test PIDs etc in the Freesat
SI, so they are on their way to the platform too
given the withdrawal of several HD channels from Freeview, the fact
that you can get them still on Freesat and now with the encrytpion of
ITV 2/3/4 HD being removed...... isn't that going to contribute to the
death knell for freeview if enough people migrate to Freesat?
On 01/11/2022 16:41, SH wrote:
On 01/11/2022 16:35, Mark Carver wrote:Freesat isn't, and never will be (now) mass market.
On 01/11/2022 16:33, SH wrote:
On 01/11/2022 15:49, sintv wrote:
Now free to view on Sky. Not sure about Freesat yet
https://rxtvinfo.com/2022/itv2-3-and-4-hd-to-go-free-to-air
Suitably equipped folk have today seen test PIDs etc in the Freesat
SI, so they are on their way to the platform too
given the withdrawal of several HD channels from Freeview, the fact
that you can get them still on Freesat and now with the encrytpion of
ITV 2/3/4 HD being removed...... isn't that going to contribute to the
death knell for freeview if enough people migrate to Freesat?
On 01/11/2022 15:49, sintv wrote:
Now free to view on Sky. Not sure about Freesat yet
https://rxtvinfo.com/2022/itv2-3-and-4-hd-to-go-free-to-air
Now free to view on Sky. Not sure about Freesat yet
On 01/11/2022 16:42, Mark Carver wrote:
On 01/11/2022 16:41, SH wrote:
On 01/11/2022 16:35, Mark Carver wrote:Freesat isn't, and never will be (now) mass market.
On 01/11/2022 16:33, SH wrote:
On 01/11/2022 15:49, sintv wrote:
Now free to view on Sky. Not sure about Freesat yet
https://rxtvinfo.com/2022/itv2-3-and-4-hd-to-go-free-to-air
Suitably equipped folk have today seen test PIDs etc in the Freesat
SI, so they are on their way to the platform too
given the withdrawal of several HD channels from Freeview, the fact
that you can get them still on Freesat and now with the encrytpion
of ITV 2/3/4 HD being removed...... isn't that going to contribute
to the death knell for freeview if enough people migrate to Freesat?
I've just retuned the TV on both its freesat option and its Other
satellite (as Astra2/Eurobird)
no sign of ITV 2/3/4 HD in freesat (yet)
I find the [non Freesat] mode annoying as (a) there is no LCN so you have
to manually reorder and delete after every retune and (b) you get *every single* FTA TV channel resulting in about 10 off ch 4 channels (advert regions), every BBC region and every ITV region, along with UTV, STV,
S4C, S4C2, BBC ALba etc and I can't understand a word of Gaelic or
Welsh! :-)
Freesat isn't, and never will be (now) mass market.
On 01/11/2022 15:49, sintv wrote:
Now free to view on Sky. Not sure about Freesat yet
https://rxtvinfo.com/2022/itv2-3-and-4-hd-to-go-free-to-air
On 01/11/2022 16:33, SH wrote:
On 01/11/2022 15:49, sintv wrote:
Now free to view on Sky. Not sure about Freesat yet
https://rxtvinfo.com/2022/itv2-3-and-4-hd-to-go-free-to-air
EXCELLENT!!!!
:)
Now free to view on Sky. Not sure about Freesat yet
https://rxtvinfo.com/2022/itv2-3-and-4-hd-to-go-free-to-air
Just done a re-scan
I can see various ITV2HD, ITV3HD, ITV4HD but the last two still show "encrypted"
flag.
On 01/11/2022 16:42, Mark Carver wrote:
Freesat isn't, and never will be (now) mass market.Why do you say that?
I get the impression that it's growing.
--
Brian Gregory (in England).
On Tuesday, 1 November 2022 at 17:23:52 UTC, Brian Gregory wrote:
On 01/11/2022 16:42, Mark Carver wrote:
Freesat isn't, and never will be (now) mass market.Why do you say that?
I get the impression that it's growing.
--
Brian Gregory (in England).
It will be swamped by TV over the internet. I think we'll be lucky if it's retained once a politically acceptable percentage of people have fast internet.
Bill
[buggered attributions] wrote:
Now free to view on Sky. Not sure about Freesat yet
Just done a re-scan (note to self, tuner card doesn't lieke PC going to
sleep to save power, just turn it off next time)
https://rxtvinfo.com/2022/itv2-3-and-4-hd-to-go-free-to-air
Not that I can remember the last time I watched any of the matching SD channels
I can see various ITV2HD, ITV3HD, ITV4HD but the last two still show "encrypted" flag.
I have gigabit fibre to the home, and I still have my metal tree at the
top of my house with both Freeview and freesat.....
Only two advantages of goign to TV over internet is reducing the risk of
a lightning strike and selling off the scrap aluminium and steel to the
metal recyclers......
I wonder how many of the archive programmes on ITV3 will be in HD (as
opposed to upscaled SD). I suppose some of the more recent programmes
will be - assuming that ITV3 buy the rights to HD masters where are available.
On 01/11/2022 16:35, Mark Carver wrote:
On 01/11/2022 16:33, SH wrote:
On 01/11/2022 15:49, sintv wrote:
Now free to view on Sky. Not sure about Freesat yet
https://rxtvinfo.com/2022/itv2-3-and-4-hd-to-go-free-to-air
Suitably equipped folk have today seen test PIDs etc in the Freesat SI,given the withdrawal of several HD channels from Freeview, the fact that
so they are on their way to the platform too
you can get them still on Freesat and now with the encrytpion of ITV
2/3/4 HD being removed...... isn't that going to contribute to the death knell for freeview if enough people migrate to Freesat?
(I expect a similar death knell for satellite TV/Radio once every person
has access to gigabit fibre internet or 5G mobile......)
On 01/11/2022 16:42, Mark Carver wrote:
Freesat isn't, and never will be (now) mass market.Why do you say that?
I get the impression that it's growing.
--
Brian Gregory (in England).
On Tuesday, 1 November 2022 at 16:41:17 UTC, SH wrote:
On 01/11/2022 16:35, Mark Carver wrote:Try that if you live in flats and aren't allowed a dish.
On 01/11/2022 16:33, SH wrote:given the withdrawal of several HD channels from Freeview, the fact that
On 01/11/2022 15:49, sintv wrote:Suitably equipped folk have today seen test PIDs etc in the Freesat SI,
Now free to view on Sky. Not sure about Freesat yet
https://rxtvinfo.com/2022/itv2-3-and-4-hd-to-go-free-to-air
so they are on their way to the platform too
you can get them still on Freesat and now with the encrytpion of ITV
2/3/4 HD being removed...... isn't that going to contribute to the death
knell for freeview if enough people migrate to Freesat?
On Tuesday, 1 November 2022 at 17:23:52 UTC, Brian Gregory wrote:
On 01/11/2022 16:42, Mark Carver wrote:
Freesat isn't, and never will be (now) mass market.Why do you say that?
I get the impression that it's growing.
--
Brian Gregory (in England).
Me too. Many TVs now come with Freesat or at least DVB-S2 receivers, and every tim $ky hike their subscriptions, more people cancel and turn to FTA satellite.
I remember a few years ago a new neighbour had a problem getting his new
LG TV going. Simple Freeview tune sorted that, but I noticed an
f-connector on the back. As the previous owner had installed $ky, I
hooked it up, found it worked, tuned the satellite side (which was even capable of multi satellite) and to his amazement ten minutes later he had hundreds of TV channels.
Philips said that they had done so to comply with a new ruling by Freeview/Freesat that TVs were no longer permitted to allow users to
create a subset of channels, and that *all* channels had to be
presented in LCN order. I believed that, but I've since learned that
no such requirement was made by Freeview/Freesat and therefore Philips
were telling me a load of bollocks.
On 01/11/2022 16:35, Mark Carver wrote:
On 01/11/2022 16:33, SH wrote:
On 01/11/2022 15:49, sintv wrote:
Now free to view on Sky. Not sure about Freesat yet
https://rxtvinfo.com/2022/itv2-3-and-4-hd-to-go-free-to-air
Suitably equipped folk have today seen test PIDs etc in the Freesat SI,
so they are on their way to the platform too
given the withdrawal of several HD channels from Freeview, the fact that
you can get them still on Freesat and now with the encrytpion of ITV 2/3/4
HD being removed...... isn't that going to contribute to the death knell
for freeview if enough people migrate to Freesat?
(I expect a similar death knell for satellite TV/Radio once every person
has access to gigabit fibre internet or 5G mobile......)
On 01/11/2022 16:41, SH wrote:
On 01/11/2022 16:35, Mark Carver wrote:Freesat isn't, and never will be (now) mass market.
On 01/11/2022 16:33, SH wrote:
On 01/11/2022 15:49, sintv wrote:
Now free to view on Sky. Not sure about Freesat yet
https://rxtvinfo.com/2022/itv2-3-and-4-hd-to-go-free-to-air
Suitably equipped folk have today seen test PIDs etc in the Freesat SI,
so they are on their way to the platform too
given the withdrawal of several HD channels from Freeview, the fact that
you can get them still on Freesat and now with the encrytpion of ITV
2/3/4 HD being removed...... isn't that going to contribute to the death
knell for freeview if enough people migrate to Freesat?
In many ways its analogue days were its haydays, it seemed everyone had a dish back then.
"Andy Burns" <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote in message news:jsd5b8Fh8ojU1@mid.individual.net...
[buggered attributions] wrote:
Now free to view on Sky. Not sure about Freesat yet
Just done a re-scan (note to self, tuner card doesn't lieke PC going
to sleep to save power, just turn it off next time)
https://rxtvinfo.com/2022/itv2-3-and-4-hd-to-go-free-to-air
Not that I can remember the last time I watched any of the matching SD
channels
I can see various ITV2HD, ITV3HD, ITV4HD but the last two still show
"encrypted" flag.
Just rescanned 11097 and ITV3 is now showing as unencrypted and can be watched/recorded. I'll do the muxes for ITV2 and ITV4 when I've finished recording something.
That is for TVHeadend with a PCTV 491e USB tuner.
I wonder how many of the archive programmes on ITV3 will be in HD (as
opposed to upscaled SD). I suppose some of the more recent programmes
will be - assuming that ITV3 buy the rights to HD masters where are available.
"R. Mark Clayton" <notya...@gmail.com> wrote in messagehttps://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/114505200743?chn=ps&norover=1&mkevt=1&mkrid=7101533165274578&mkcid=2&itemid=114505200743&targetid=4584826055637456&device=c&mktype=&googleloc=&poi=&campaignid=412354546&mkgroupid=1299623041023876&rlsatarget=pla-4584826055637456&
When we bought our present Philips TV about 2 years ago, I was surprised and pleased to see that it had an F connector as well as a Belling Lee connector, and therefore that it could be configured to receive off both Freeview and Freesat. Sadly the F connector is in a recessed panel which makes it very difficult to tighten/loosen the nut on the F connector on the rare occasions when the TV needs to be moved away from the satelllite and terrestrial cables.
On 02/11/2022 16:01, Brian Gaff wrote:
In many ways its analogue days were its haydays, it seemed everyone had aI can assure you Brian, something like 40% of homes have a dish around
dish back then.
here. There's no obvious correlation with <cough> social demographic
(never has been, that's always been largely a myth)
I'm willing to bet that there are more dishes with nothing active
connected in the living room, than there are with Freesat receivers, and
the vast majority will have active Sky boxes.
Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 02/11/2022 16:01, Brian Gaff wrote:Interestingly a new estate has gone up behind me with hardly a dish nor a
In many ways its analogue days were its haydays, it seemed everyone had a >>> dish back then.I can assure you Brian, something like 40% of homes have a dish around
here. There's no obvious correlation with <cough> social demographic
(never has been, that's always been largely a myth)
I'm willing to bet that there are more dishes with nothing active
connected in the living room, than there are with Freesat receivers, and
the vast majority will have active Sky boxes.
DTT antenna to be seen. All houses have both a VM and an OR fibre
connection. I’m curious as to what people are using to get their TV reception. Presumably VM and perhaps BT have made offers that are hard to turn down. VM are very secretive about what they are offering, as when you enter these properties on their normal sales website they ask you to phone up.
On Tuesday, 1 November 2022 at 17:23:52 UTC, Brian Gregory wrote:
On 01/11/2022 16:42, Mark Carver wrote:
Freesat isn't, and never will be (now) mass market.Why do you say that?
I get the impression that it's growing.
--
Brian Gregory (in England).
It will be swamped by TV over the internet. I think we'll be lucky if it's retained once a politically acceptable percentage of people have fast internet.
No doubt. Remember the old maxim - "if you aren't paying for it, you are the product".
There's a Croudace estate near us where the posher homes have a Sky dish
pre installed and wired to (and done at First Fix too !).
They also have Ethernet tie lines from the FTTP ONT to the living room and master bedroom
And we are moving inexorably to *us* becoming the product. When channels
are streamed, and the only way to watch them is by logging on (not necessarily through paid subscription, it could be "free"), then
everything you do is monitorable. Not just what you watch, but when and
how you watch. Even if not logged in, I am pretty sure that individual TVs have individual signatures, probably built into their OS (in the same way that internet browsing can pretty much identify a single computer by its unique signature). In fact, if it's an Android OS TV, then I'd be certain that Google's grubby hands are all over the signature somewhere.
That isn't possible with Freeview/Freesat OTA transmissions, which is why they will become unacceptable in the long run.
If we get FTTP (eg if BT start force-feeding it to existing customers)Openreach have a number of requirements.
I dread to think how they will provide it to us. The phone line to the
house terminates at an old GPO lozenge box on the gable end in the
*middle* of the house, where a single-storey (with loft) part of the
house meets a two-storey (plus loft) part. Gaining access to that
termination point would be a major job for BTOR, involving crawl
boards up a tiled roof. Goodness where the cable goes from there. I
don't know how the cable goes from there to the point where I can see
it entering the living room alongside a window. If BTOR want to
install an ONT at that first-entry point to the living room, it will
need power, and there are no mains sockets within reach so it would
mean taking up carpets and digging a channel in the concrete floor to
lay a spur from a socket on the other side of the living room door.
On 01/11/2022 16:41, SH wrote:
On 01/11/2022 16:35, Mark Carver wrote:
On 01/11/2022 16:33, SH wrote:
On 01/11/2022 15:49, sintv wrote:
Now free to view on Sky. Not sure about Freesat yet
https://rxtvinfo.com/2022/itv2-3-and-4-hd-to-go-free-to-air
Suitably equipped folk have today seen test PIDs etc in the Freesat
SI, so they are on their way to the platform too
given the withdrawal of several HD channels from Freeview, the fact
that you can get them still on Freesat and now with the encrytpion of
ITV 2/3/4 HD being removed...... isn't that going to contribute to the death knell for freeview if enough people migrate to Freesat?
Freesat isn't, and never will be (now) mass market.
"Jeff Layman" <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote in message news:tk0012$1dv2r$1@dont-email.me...
And we are moving inexorably to *us* becoming the product. When
channels are streamed, and the only way to watch them is by logging
on (not necessarily through paid subscription, it could be "free"),
then everything you do is monitorable. Not just what you watch, but
when and how you watch. Even if not logged in, I am pretty sure that
individual TVs have individual signatures, probably built into their
OS (in the same way that internet browsing can pretty much identify a
single computer by its unique signature). In fact, if it's an Android
OS TV, then I'd be certain that Google's grubby hands are all over
the signature somewhere.
That isn't possible with Freeview/Freesat OTA transmissions, which is
why they will become unacceptable in the long run.
Freeview/Freesat OTA transmissions also have the problem (for
broadcasters) that people can record and keep their own copies of TV programmes, and can even (if they know how) edit out commercials and continuity announcements.
If we get FTTP (eg if BT start force-feeding it to existing customers) I >dread to think how they will provide it to us.
In article <jsd0jpFg7efU2@mid.individual.net>,
Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 01/11/2022 16:41, SH wrote:Stats?
On 01/11/2022 16:35, Mark Carver wrote:Freesat isn't, and never will be (now) mass market.
On 01/11/2022 16:33, SH wrote:
On 01/11/2022 15:49, sintv wrote:Suitably equipped folk have today seen test PIDs etc in the Freesat
Now free to view on Sky. Not sure about Freesat yet
https://rxtvinfo.com/2022/itv2-3-and-4-hd-to-go-free-to-air
SI, so they are on their way to the platform too
given the withdrawal of several HD channels from Freeview, the fact
that you can get them still on Freesat and now with the encrytpion of
ITV 2/3/4 HD being removed...... isn't that going to contribute to the
death knell for freeview if enough people migrate to Freesat?
NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
Freeview/Freesat OTA transmissions also have the problem (for broadcasters) >> that people can record and keep their own copies of TV programmes, and can >> even (if they know how) edit out commercials and continuity announcements. >> The world is inexorably moving to a model where you never "own" a copy ofSurely if there's a picture on the screen we can record it! At the
anything, and simply stream it when you want to watch it. That means that
broadcasters can control how long the copy is made available and can
restrict you to playing through their own crappy player that cannot skip
commercials or allow you to freeze-frame or play at faster-than-normal
speed.
silliest level one could just point a camera at it.
Freeview/Freesat OTA transmissions also have the problem (for broadcasters) that people can record and keep their own copies of TV programmes, and can even (if they know how) edit out commercials and continuity announcements. The world is inexorably moving to a model where you never "own" a copy of anything, and simply stream it when you want to watch it. That means that broadcasters can control how long the copy is made available and can
restrict you to playing through their own crappy player that cannot skip commercials or allow you to freeze-frame or play at faster-than-normal
speed.
On 03/11/2022 11:52, Chris Green wrote:
NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
Freeview/Freesat OTA transmissions also have the problem (for broadcasters)Surely if there's a picture on the screen we can record it! At the silliest level one could just point a camera at it.
that people can record and keep their own copies of TV programmes, and can >> even (if they know how) edit out commercials and continuity announcements. >> The world is inexorably moving to a model where you never "own" a copy of >> anything, and simply stream it when you want to watch it. That means that >> broadcasters can control how long the copy is made available and can
restrict you to playing through their own crappy player that cannot skip >> commercials or allow you to freeze-frame or play at faster-than-normal
speed.
Thanks to HDCP flags in HDMI interfaces, that's often the only solution
now anyway, unless you enter the murky world of HDMI 'laundering' devices
Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 03/11/2022 11:52, Chris Green wrote:There must be a video signal of some sort feeding the screen and
NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:Thanks to HDCP flags in HDMI interfaces, that's often the only solution
Freeview/Freesat OTA transmissions also have the problem (for broadcasters)Surely if there's a picture on the screen we can record it! At the
that people can record and keep their own copies of TV programmes, and can >>>> even (if they know how) edit out commercials and continuity announcements. >>>> The world is inexorably moving to a model where you never "own" a copy of >>>> anything, and simply stream it when you want to watch it. That means that >>>> broadcasters can control how long the copy is made available and can
restrict you to playing through their own crappy player that cannot skip >>>> commercials or allow you to freeze-frame or play at faster-than-normal >>>> speed.
silliest level one could just point a camera at it.
now anyway, unless you enter the murky world of HDMI 'laundering' devices
that's "post HDMI". We'll get some sort of clever recorder that can
use the screen driver output to record from.
On 02/11/2022 16:01, Brian Gaff wrote:
In many ways its analogue days were its haydays, it seemed everyone
had a dish back then.
I can assure you Brian, something like 40% of homes have a dish around
here. There's no obvious correlation with <cough> social demographic
(never has been, that's always been largely a myth)
In article <jsfiupFrcs7U2@mid.individual.net>, Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 02/11/2022 16:01, Brian Gaff wrote:TBH now you've said that I can't recall seeing *any* on the houses in and around our street. When I emerge from 'shielding' (I hope!) I'll have a
In many ways its analogue days were its haydays, it seemed everyoneI can assure you Brian, something like 40% of homes have a dish around
had a dish back then.
here. There's no obvious correlation with <cough> social demographic
(never has been, that's always been largely a myth)
look to see if that's only because I've not been looking.
On 03/11/2022 12:45, Chris Green wrote:
No we won't, because any manufacturer that markets such a thing will be
There must be a video signal of some sort feeding the screen and
that's "post HDMI". We'll get some sort of clever recorder that can
use the screen driver output to record from.
taken to court by the Holywood studios etc
You should see the hoops I have to jump through to get HDMI/EDID
strippers approved for broadcaster use.
On 03/11/2022 14:41, Mark Carver wrote:
On 03/11/2022 12:45, Chris Green wrote:
No we won't, because any manufacturer that markets such a thing will
There must be a video signal of some sort feeding the screen and
that's "post HDMI". We'll get some sort of clever recorder that can
use the screen driver output to record from.
be taken to court by the Holywood studios etc
You should see the hoops I have to jump through to get HDMI/EDID
strippers approved for broadcaster use.
Mmmm ... not so sure about that. AIUI, this works pretty well for current versions of Windows ...
https://obsproject.com/download
... but I've only used an older W7 compatible version ...
https://web.archive.org/web/20220509151916/https://cdn-fastly.obsproject.com/downloads/OBS-Studio-27.2.4-Full-Installer-x64.exe
... which made a very reasonable recording for me of my nephew's
funeral, which sadly I was most unexpectedly in too much pain to
attend in person as planned.
On 03/11/2022 16:21, Java Jive wrote:
Mmmm ... not so sure about that. AIUI, this works pretty well for
current versions of Windows ...
https://obsproject.com/download
... but I've only used an older W7 compatible version ...
https://web.archive.org/web/20220509151916/https://cdn-fastly.obsproject.com/downloads/OBS-Studio-27.2.4-Full-Installer-x64.exe
... which made a very reasonable recording for me of my nephew's
funeral, which sadly I was most unexpectedly in too much pain to
attend in person as planned.
Yes, you can do what you like with your own produced content,
but try
and connect via HDMI interface from a Set Top Box or anything else that
is spitting out 'creative content' from a broadcaster or film studio
etc, and if that device doesn't receive a flag back from the HDMI
handshake that its connected to a screen, it'll shut down the signal.
Of course there are no ends of ways to circumvent this, and stuff on the internet, but no one is going to be able to sell something that you can
buy off the shelf in Currys or John Lewis and make yourself an HD copy
of tonight's EastEnders.
I have no doubt that at some point we'll be offered ways to copy
streamed video.
On 03/11/2022 12:45, Chris Green wrote:
Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:No we won't, because any manufacturer that markets such a thing will be
On 03/11/2022 11:52, Chris Green wrote:There must be a video signal of some sort feeding the screen and
NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:Thanks to HDCP flags in HDMI interfaces, that's often the only solution
Freeview/Freesat OTA transmissions also have the problem (forSurely if there's a picture on the screen we can record it! At the
broadcasters)
that people can record and keep their own copies of TV programmes,
and can
even (if they know how) edit out commercials and continuity
announcements.
The world is inexorably moving to a model where you never "own" a
copy of
anything, and simply stream it when you want to watch it. That
means that
broadcasters can control how long the copy is made available and can >>>>> restrict you to playing through their own crappy player that cannot
skip
commercials or allow you to freeze-frame or play at faster-than-normal >>>>> speed.
silliest level one could just point a camera at it.
now anyway, unless you enter the murky world of HDMI 'laundering'
devices
that's "post HDMI". We'll get some sort of clever recorder that can
use the screen driver output to record from.
taken to court by the Holywood studios etc
On 03/11/2022 12:45, Chris Green wrote:
Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 03/11/2022 11:52, Chris Green wrote:There must be a video signal of some sort feeding the screen and
NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:Thanks to HDCP flags in HDMI interfaces, that's often the only solution
Freeview/Freesat OTA transmissions also have the problem (for broadcasters)Surely if there's a picture on the screen we can record it! At the
that people can record and keep their own copies of TV programmes, and can
even (if they know how) edit out commercials and continuity announcements.
The world is inexorably moving to a model where you never "own" a copy of
anything, and simply stream it when you want to watch it. That means that
broadcasters can control how long the copy is made available and can >>>> restrict you to playing through their own crappy player that cannot skip >>>> commercials or allow you to freeze-frame or play at faster-than-normal >>>> speed.
silliest level one could just point a camera at it.
now anyway, unless you enter the murky world of HDMI 'laundering' devices
that's "post HDMI". We'll get some sort of clever recorder that can
use the screen driver output to record from.
No we won't, because any manufacturer that markets such a thing will be
taken to court by the Holywood studios etc
You should see the hoops I have to jump through to get HDMI/EDID
strippers approved for broadcaster use.
Freeview/Freesat OTA transmissions also have the problem (for broadcasters) that people can record and keep their own copies of TV programmes, and can even (if they know how) edit out commercials and continuity announcements. The world is inexorably moving to a model where you never "own" a copy of anything, and simply stream it when you want to watch it. That means that broadcasters can control how long the copy is made available and can
restrict you to playing through their own crappy player that cannot skip commercials or allow you to freeze-frame or play at faster-than-normal
speed.
We need to enjoy "proper" broadcasting while we can...
Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 03/11/2022 12:45, Chris Green wrote:On what grounds? There could be perfectly good reasons for doing it.
Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:No we won't, because any manufacturer that markets such a thing will be
On 03/11/2022 11:52, Chris Green wrote:that's "post HDMI". We'll get some sort of clever recorder that can
NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:Thanks to HDCP flags in HDMI interfaces, that's often the only solution >>>> now anyway, unless you enter the murky world of HDMI 'laundering' devices >>> There must be a video signal of some sort feeding the screen and
Freeview/Freesat OTA transmissions also have the problem (for broadcasters)Surely if there's a picture on the screen we can record it! At the
that people can record and keep their own copies of TV programmes, and can
even (if they know how) edit out commercials and continuity announcements.
The world is inexorably moving to a model where you never "own" a copy of
anything, and simply stream it when you want to watch it. That means that
broadcasters can control how long the copy is made available and can >>>>>> restrict you to playing through their own crappy player that cannot skip >>>>>> commercials or allow you to freeze-frame or play at faster-than-normal >>>>>> speed.
silliest level one could just point a camera at it.
use the screen driver output to record from.
taken to court by the Holywood studios etc
If I have a video camera watching my back garden then they're my
images the TV is showing. There's nothing anyone else should 'own'
between the camera and my TV.
On 03/11/2022 14:41, Mark Carver wrote:
On 03/11/2022 12:45, Chris Green wrote:
Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:No we won't, because any manufacturer that markets such a thing will
On 03/11/2022 11:52, Chris Green wrote:There must be a video signal of some sort feeding the screen and
NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:Thanks to HDCP flags in HDMI interfaces, that's often the only
Freeview/Freesat OTA transmissions also have the problem (forSurely if there's a picture on the screen we can record it! At the >>>>> silliest level one could just point a camera at it.
broadcasters)
that people can record and keep their own copies of TV
programmes, and can
even (if they know how) edit out commercials and continuity
announcements.
The world is inexorably moving to a model where you never "own" a
copy of
anything, and simply stream it when you want to watch it. That
means that
broadcasters can control how long the copy is made available and can >>>>>> restrict you to playing through their own crappy player that
cannot skip
commercials or allow you to freeze-frame or play at
faster-than-normal
speed.
solution
now anyway, unless you enter the murky world of HDMI 'laundering'
devices
that's "post HDMI". We'll get some sort of clever recorder that can
use the screen driver output to record from.
be taken to court by the Holywood studios etc
I have a Panasonic HDD/DVD recorder which happily burns TV programmes
onto DVD, after editing if required. Admittedly that is only SD, but
they make (or made) a Blu-ray version for HD.
In article <jsfiupFrcs7U2@mid.individual.net>, Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 02/11/2022 16:01, Brian Gaff wrote:
In many ways its analogue days were its haydays, it seemed everyoneI can assure you Brian, something like 40% of homes have a dish around
had a dish back then.
here. There's no obvious correlation with <cough> social demographic
(never has been, that's always been largely a myth)
TBH now you've said that I can't recall seeing *any* on the houses in and around our street. When I emerge from 'shielding' (I hope!) I'll have a
look to see if that's only because I've not been looking.
'Freeview' + the net seem fine to me.
You can do so now from the comfort of your desk !
Here's a random street in your area
<https://www.google.com/maps/@56.6366199,-2.8945017,3a,34.4y,310.46h,91.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sB_jm68UquWm0sLgdvKVBRw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192>
I don't claim to have gone into the details of how OBStudio works,
though I believe it records off the screen somehow, I know only that it
does. Also, I wasn't claiming it was HD, though I think theoretically
that would be possible, it's just simply that my PC doesn't have an HD screen.
On Thursday, 3 November 2022 at 16:47:31 UTC, Java Jive wrote:
I don't claim to have gone into the details of how OBStudio works,
though I believe it records off the screen somehow, I know only that it
does. Also, I wasn't claiming it was HD, though I think theoretically
that would be possible, it's just simply that my PC doesn't have an HD
screen.
All I know is that you can put the material on your screen and then record your screen. It doesn't record the sound though. I've only had half an hour with OBS so I haven't explored it more than that.
On Thursday, 3 November 2022 at 15:05:19 UTC, Mark Carver wrote:
You can do so now from the comfort of your desk !Very Scottish looking. I always think such places typify Scotland and are very depressing.
Here's a random street in your area
<https://www.google.com/maps/@56.6366199,-2.8945017,3a,34.4y,310.46h,91.75t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sB_jm68UquWm0sLgdvKVBRw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192>
Remember in the early days of computer software all of the crazy 'copy protection' that was applied, after a few years when it was repeatedly overcome by users it has disappeared.
Freesat isn't, and never will be (now) mass market.Stats?
About 2 million homes (compared with 8 million for Sky, 18 million for Freeview, and 3.5 million for Virgin)
In article <jshk26F6fi7U4@mid.individual.net>, Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Ta! Source?About 2 million homes (compared with 8 million for Sky, 18 million forFreesat isn't, and never will be (now) mass market.Stats?
Freeview, and 3.5 million for Virgin)
Most people do not realise that they do not have a copy of a streamed programme stored in their box and are just recalling it to be streamed
again.
On 03/11/2022 14:46, Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article <jshk26F6fi7U4@mid.individual.net>, Mark Carver
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Ta! Source?About 2 million homes (compared with 8 million for Sky, 18 million forFreesat isn't, and never will be (now) mass market.Stats?
Freeview, and 3.5 million for Virgin)
No single source, just a few minutes googling Ofcom and other industry websites.
They seem to be the ballpark figures
I have no doubt that at some point we'll be offered ways to copy
streamed video.
Most people do not realise that they do not have a copy of a streamed >programme stored in their box and are just recalling it to be streamed
again.
On 03/11/2022 19:11, MB wrote:
Most people do not realise that they do not have a copy of a streamed
programme stored in their box and are just recalling it to be streamed
again.
It depends. I've just tried watching a programme on my SkyQ box that was downloaded through streaming. It played back.
I yanked out the ethernet cable, and it carried on playing back without
a murmur.
Which box are you referring to ?
Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 03/11/2022 12:45, Chris Green wrote:On what grounds? There could be perfectly good reasons for doing it.
Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:No we won't, because any manufacturer that markets such a thing will be
On 03/11/2022 11:52, Chris Green wrote:that's "post HDMI". We'll get some sort of clever recorder that can
NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:Thanks to HDCP flags in HDMI interfaces, that's often the only solution >>>> now anyway, unless you enter the murky world of HDMI 'laundering' devices >>> There must be a video signal of some sort feeding the screen and
Freeview/Freesat OTA transmissions also have the problem (for broadcasters)Surely if there's a picture on the screen we can record it! At the
that people can record and keep their own copies of TV programmes, and can
even (if they know how) edit out commercials and continuity announcements.
The world is inexorably moving to a model where you never "own" a copy of
anything, and simply stream it when you want to watch it. That means that
broadcasters can control how long the copy is made available and can >>>>>> restrict you to playing through their own crappy player that cannot skip >>>>>> commercials or allow you to freeze-frame or play at faster-than-normal >>>>>> speed.
silliest level one could just point a camera at it.
use the screen driver output to record from.
taken to court by the Holywood studios etc
If I have a video camera watching my back garden then they're my
images the TV is showing. There's nothing anyone else should 'own'
between the camera and my TV.
You should see the hoops I have to jump through to get HDMI/EDID
strippers approved for broadcaster use.
So the technology exists already. :-)
On 03/11/2022 17:31, Max Demian wrote:
On 03/11/2022 14:41, Mark Carver wrote:
On 03/11/2022 12:45, Chris Green wrote:
Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:No we won't, because any manufacturer that markets such a thing will
On 03/11/2022 11:52, Chris Green wrote:There must be a video signal of some sort feeding the screen and
NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:Thanks to HDCP flags in HDMI interfaces, that's often the only
Freeview/Freesat OTA transmissions also have the problem (forSurely if there's a picture on the screen we can record it! At the >>>>>> silliest level one could just point a camera at it.
broadcasters)
that people can record and keep their own copies of TV
programmes, and can
even (if they know how) edit out commercials and continuity
announcements.
The world is inexorably moving to a model where you never "own" a >>>>>>> copy of
anything, and simply stream it when you want to watch it. That
means that
broadcasters can control how long the copy is made available and can >>>>>>> restrict you to playing through their own crappy player that
cannot skip
commercials or allow you to freeze-frame or play at
faster-than-normal
speed.
solution
now anyway, unless you enter the murky world of HDMI 'laundering'
devices
that's "post HDMI". We'll get some sort of clever recorder that can
use the screen driver output to record from.
be taken to court by the Holywood studios etc
I have a Panasonic HDD/DVD recorder which happily burns TV programmes
onto DVD, after editing if required. Admittedly that is only SD, but
they make (or made) a Blu-ray version for HD.
And how would you go about feeding it with something in HD from a PVR or
STB ?
I'll eat my hat if you can show me something with a DVB tuner, that can record HD content to BluRay ?
On 03/11/2022 14:46, Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article <jshk26F6fi7U4@mid.individual.net>, Mark Carver
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Ta! Source?About 2 million homes (compared with 8 million for Sky, 18 million forFreesat isn't, and never will be (now) mass market.Stats?
Freeview, and 3.5 million for Virgin)
No single source, just a few minutes googling Ofcom and other industry websites.
They seem to be the ballpark figures
On 04/11/2022 08:51, Mark Carver wrote:
On 03/11/2022 14:46, Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article <jshk26F6fi7U4@mid.individual.net>, Mark Carver
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Ta! Source?About 2 million homes (compared with 8 million for Sky, 18 million for >>>> Freeview, and 3.5 million for Virgin)Freesat isn't, and never will be (now) mass market.Stats?
No single source, just a few minutes googling Ofcom and other
industry websites.
They seem to be the ballpark figures
Ofcom's "Media Nations" 2022 had just 1.8 million households for all
the "others" - i.e. those with Freesat /or/ internet without
subscription /or/ no TV at all. Their source was the BARB
Establishment Survey. And that was down from 2.9 million in 2016.
FWIW those with /only/ TV through an aerial was 4.4 - down from 7.4 in
2016.
On 04/11/2022 08:51, Mark Carver wrote:The problem with FreeSat is that a royalty is charged to be in the Electronic Program Guide, we currently have two TV's with FTA receivers hooked up and used to have a separate box, but have never had anything with FreeSat. All the programs in FreeSat
On 03/11/2022 14:46, Jim Lesurf wrote:
In article <jshk26...@mid.individual.net>, Mark Carver
<mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Ta! Source?About 2 million homes (compared with 8 million for Sky, 18 million for >>> Freeview, and 3.5 million for Virgin)Freesat isn't, and never will be (now) mass market.Stats?
No single source, just a few minutes googling Ofcom and other industry websites.
They seem to be the ballpark figures
Ok, how does OFCOM measure/detect the viewers who originally signed up
to Sky, and then downgraded to a Freesat From Sky card (if such a thing still exists) or simply swapped the Sky box with a Freesat box bought
from the local Tescos?
Also what about people who buy a TV that have both Freesat AND Freeview Tuners onboard and the TV owner only connects up one of the 2 tuners
rather than both?
And Have OFCOM measured/detected the number of people who stream live TV over internet rather than via Freeview/Freesat?
(Genuine question as all of my TVs are twin tuner and all are connected
to Freeview, Freesat AND Internet for TV over IP.)
S.
On 03/11/2022 19:20, Mark Carver wrote:
On 03/11/2022 17:31, Max Demian wrote:
On 03/11/2022 14:41, Mark Carver wrote:
On 03/11/2022 12:45, Chris Green wrote:
Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:No we won't, because any manufacturer that markets such a thing
On 03/11/2022 11:52, Chris Green wrote:There must be a video signal of some sort feeding the screen and
NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:Thanks to HDCP flags in HDMI interfaces, that's often the only
Freeview/Freesat OTA transmissions also have the problem (forSurely if there's a picture on the screen we can record it! At the >>>>>>> silliest level one could just point a camera at it.
broadcasters)
that people can record and keep their own copies of TV
programmes, and can
even (if they know how) edit out commercials and continuity
announcements.
The world is inexorably moving to a model where you never "own" >>>>>>>> a copy of
anything, and simply stream it when you want to watch it. That >>>>>>>> means that
broadcasters can control how long the copy is made available
and can
restrict you to playing through their own crappy player that
cannot skip
commercials or allow you to freeze-frame or play at
faster-than-normal
speed.
solution
now anyway, unless you enter the murky world of HDMI 'laundering'
devices
that's "post HDMI". We'll get some sort of clever recorder that can >>>>> use the screen driver output to record from.
will be taken to court by the Holywood studios etc
I have a Panasonic HDD/DVD recorder which happily burns TV
programmes onto DVD, after editing if required. Admittedly that is
only SD, but they make (or made) a Blu-ray version for HD.
And how would you go about feeding it with something in HD from a PVR
or STB ?
From the built-in DVB-T2 tuner.
I'll eat my hat if you can show me something with a DVB tuner, that
can record HD content to BluRay ?
Possibly with this one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0086WVPWG/
This review implies you can record from Freeview HD to Blu-ray: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/customer-reviews/R3NWW2VUN2GDQK/ref=cm_cr_dp_d_rvw_ttl
'll eat my hat if you can show me something with a DVB tuner, that can
record HD content to BluRay ?
Everybody (well, the BBC at laest) expected well over 30 million to
watch the Queen's Funeral (live). The figure was high 20s million, (and
the for Beeb themselves it was only in the teens I think ?)
On 04/11/2022 13:51, Mark Carver wrote:
Everybody (well, the BBC at laest) expected well over 30 million to
watch the Queen's Funeral (live). The figure was high 20s million, (and
the for Beeb themselves it was only in the teens I think ?)
I bet the streaming rivals wish they could get high twenty millions
for something - have they started published audited figures yet?
Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
'll eat my hat if you can show me something with a DVB tuner, that can
record HD content to BluRay ?
Well, I know we can capture HD from freeview using a computer and an HD dongle. I would assume I could then have a BD burner drive and copy that to
a disc if I wished. Not tried it because I just record things to view when convenient.*
It would be a 'data' disc, though, not a video disc. Which makes me wonder if I could then get my BD+DVD+etc commercial player to play such disc. It will play files on USB sticks, but the control interface is crap compared with VLC's. So far I've not bothered to find out as would only be of
academic interest.
* OK, I also skip the ads. :-)
They have, but it's all a bit meaningless comparing against linear TV. I
saw one quote that something on Netflix that had 110k viewers at the
same time as GBBO on C4 that had 3.8 million. However the Netflix prog
will have some sort of audience at any time day of night, (as will GBBO
via All4).
A fairer comparison would be over a week Netflix vs iplayer vs All4 etc.
Anyway, the point is today there's a multitude of different things to
watch whenever and however, so the days of 30 million for an event are probably over
On 04/11/2022 13:51, Mark Carver wrote:
Everybody (well, the BBC at laest) expected well over 30 million to
watch the Queen's Funeral (live). The figure was high 20s million, (and
the for Beeb themselves it was only in the teens I think ?)
I bet the streaming rivals wish they could get high twenty millions for >something - have they started published audited figures yet?
On 04/11/2022 09:15 am, Jim Lesurf wrote:
Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
'll eat my hat if you can show me something with a DVB tuner, that
can record HD content to BluRay ?
Well, I know we can capture HD from freeview using a computer and an
HD dongle. I would assume I could then have a BD burner drive and copy
that to a disc if I wished. Not tried it because I just record things
to view when convenient.*
It would be a 'data' disc, though, not a video disc. Which makes me
wonder if I could then get my BD+DVD+etc commercial player to play
such disc. It will play files on USB sticks, but the control interface
is crap compared with VLC's. So far I've not bothered to find out as
would only be of academic interest.
* OK, I also skip the ads. :-)
Use an external CD-R drive connected via its USB lead?
On Fri, 4 Nov 2022 16:38:29 +0000, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
On 04/11/2022 13:51, Mark Carver wrote:
Everybody (well, the BBC at laest) expected well over 30 million to
watch the Queen's Funeral (live). The figure was high 20s million, (and
the for Beeb themselves it was only in the teens I think ?)
I bet the streaming rivals wish they could get high twenty millions for
something - have they started published audited figures yet?
Perhaps some of them will, just not all at once. There must be plenty
of books that have been read by tens of millions, even though not
everyone will have read them at exactly the same time. Modern
technology is enabling television material to be consumed in much the
same way as literature - as and when it suits the reader - and this
will require new methods of measuring its success.
On 04/11/2022 17:36, Mark Carver wrote:
They have, but it's all a bit meaningless comparing against linear TV.
I saw one quote that something on Netflix that had 110k viewers at the
same time as GBBO on C4 that had 3.8 million. However the Netflix prog
will have some sort of audience at any time day of night, (as will
GBBO via All4).
A fairer comparison would be over a week Netflix vs iplayer vs All4
etc.
Anyway, the point is today there's a multitude of different things to
watch whenever and however, so the days of 30 million for an event are probably over
I would have thought they would give the figures in way that allowed for
that because they are trying to persuade advertisers that worth
advertising there,
Interestingly a new estate has gone up behind me with hardly a dish nor a DTT antenna to be seen. All houses have both a VM and an OR fibre connection. I’m curious as to what people are using to get their TV reception. Presumably VM and perhaps BT have made offers that are hard to turn down. VM are very secretive about what they are offering, as when you enter these properties on their normal sales website they ask you to phone up.
In article <skmc3j-fpfa.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>, Chris Green <cl@isbd.net> wrote:
Remember in the early days of computer software all of the crazy 'copy
protection' that was applied, after a few years when it was repeatedly
overcome by users it has disappeared.
Blu Ray videos remain 'difficult' to jailbreak.
Jim
I've just retuned the TV on both its freesat option and its Other
satellite (as Astra2/Eurobird)
no sign of ITV 2/3/4 HD in freesat (yet)
I suspect that maybe you were too busy
finding things to denigrate in GMSVs of Scotland rather than setting up OBStudio properly :-)
All I know is that you can put the material on your screen and then record your screen. It doesn't record the sound though. I've only had half an hour with OBS so I haven't explored it more than that.It recorded the sound for me. I suspect that maybe you were too busy
finding things to denigrate in GMSVs of Scotland rather than setting up OBStudio properly :-)
On Friday, 4 November 2022 at 01:04:34 UTC, Java Jive wrote:quarters immediately." That sort of thing.
I suspect that maybe you were too busyPS:
finding things to denigrate in GMSVs of Scotland rather than setting up
OBStudio properly :-)
1. I always think 'I suspect' sounds pretentious, like you're a magistrate or a bonkers old headmaster. "I suspect, Orifice Minor, that you've been indulging in anal sex in the dormitory. If you feel those urges again I suggest you come to my private
2. What's GMSV mean? I know it's some weird medical thing but...Google Maps Street View
Bill
Oh. It was a rather bonkers thing for him to say then, really. I guess he was upset by what I said about the street of shitty little hovels near where he lives.2. What's GMSV mean? I know it's some weird medical thing but...Google Maps Street View
Bill
On Monday, 7 November 2022 at 17:10:50 UTC, Mark Carver wrote:[Quoting broken: wrightsaerials@aol.com wrote]
2. What's GMSV mean? I know it's some weird medical thing but...
Google Maps Street View
Oh. It was a rather bonkers thing for him to say then, really. I guess he was upset by what I said about the street of shitty little hovels near where he lives.
Sadly the F connector is in a recessed panel which
makes it very difficult to tighten/loosen the nut on the F connector on the rare occasions when the TV needs to be moved away from the satelllite and terrestrial cables.
No idea what you're on about. Who said anything about Forfar or York? Is it football results? 'East Fife 4 Forfar 5', that sort of thing?Oh. It was a rather bonkers thing for him to say then, really. I guess he was upset by what I said about the street of shitty little hovels near where he lives.Forfar to Lairg is the same order of magnitude distance as Forfar to
York, so if I'm near to Forfar, so are you.
And I've seen shitty hovels in every English major conurbation that I'veYou're very easy to wind up.
ever visited, and could probably find some very close to you, but I've
got better things to do.
On Monday, 7 November 2022 at 17:51:35 UTC, Java Jive wrote:[Quoting broken again by Bill Wright. He said:]
Oh. It was a rather bonkers thing for him to say then, really. I guess he was upset by what I said about the street of shitty little hovels near where he lives.
Forfar to Lairg is the same order of magnitude distance as Forfar to
York, so if I'm near to Forfar, so are you.
No idea what you're on about.
Who said anything about Forfar or York? Is it football results? 'East Fife 4 Forfar 5', that sort of thing?
And I've seen shitty hovels in every English major conurbation that I've
ever visited, and could probably find some very close to you, but I've
got better things to do.
You're very easy to wind up.
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 297 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 02:06:22 |
| Calls: | 6,666 |
| Calls today: | 4 |
| Files: | 12,212 |
| Messages: | 5,335,600 |