In article <iabmhhlsngkplpsuaggi5lfv27ltaf490m@4ax.com>,
Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

Yesterday one of my daughters was reading through a book of poetry by
Spike Milligan with the grandson, and that day of all days came upon
this one-

I went to Buckingham Palace
to try and see the Queen.
They said "Oh dear, she isn't here,"
but I saw where she had been.

I think we'll be seeing where she's been for many years. Sometimes a
poet can say it best.

It occurs to me that the second Elizabethan Age has also been
effectively the Age of Television, something which has been through
many changes and is probably in the process of going through one of
its biggest changes since it was invented. There's definitely a sort
of "end of an era" feel to all this.

According to one of the recent Jubilee programmes, it was the Queen who insisted her Coronation be on televsion. The establishment thought it
should remain a semi-secret ceremony.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

Yesterday one of my daughters was reading through a book of poetry by
Spike Milligan with the grandson, and that day of all days came upon
this one-

I went to Buckingham Palace
to try and see the Queen.
They said "Oh dear, she isn't here,"
but I saw where she had been.

I think we'll be seeing where she's been for many years. Sometimes a
poet can say it best.

It occurs to me that the second Elizabethan Age has also been
effectively the Age of Television, something which has been through
many changes and is probably in the process of going through one of
its biggest changes since it was invented. There's definitely a sort
of "end of an era" feel to all this.

Rod.

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On 09/09/2022 13:56, charles wrote:

Spike Milligan

There is a quiet little village near Rye on the Sussex/Kent border
called Winchelsea. It used to be a major port in its day, but the
harbour silted up, people moved away, and one of the striking things I
remember about it is that after you drove past the sign marking the
border of the town, it was some distance further before you saw any
houses at all. Spike is buried in the churchyard there, and part of the inscription on his gravestone is in Welsh, which I couldn't possible
attempt to remember, but supposedly it means: "I told you I was ill!"

One of the better photos: https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-the-grave-of-spike-milligan-in-the-churchyard-of-st-thomas-the-martyr-73728355.html

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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In message <iabmhhlsngkplpsuaggi5lfv27ltaf490m@4ax.com>, Roderick
Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> writes

Yesterday one of my daughters was reading through a book of poetry by
Spike Milligan with the grandson, and that day of all days came upon
this one-

I went to Buckingham Palace
to try and see the Queen.
They said "Oh dear, she isn't here,"
but I saw where she had been.

I think we'll be seeing where she's been for many years. Sometimes a
poet can say it best.

It occurs to me that the second Elizabethan Age has also been
effectively the Age of Television, something which has been through
many changes and is probably in the process of going through one of
its biggest changes since it was invented. There's definitely a sort
of "end of an era" feel to all this.

Rod.

If Charles is to reign for as long as his mother, he will need to live
till he's 143.
--
John Hall
"Home is heaven and orgies are vile,
But you *need* an orgy, once in a while."
Ogden Nash (1902-1971)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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That is indeed true. The coronation sold a lot of TVs ahead of it, He worked for Redeffusion who made them at the time. My family were testers for new models.Ors was a back projection model.
I remember the rather black and creamy white pictures with a bit of what we now call flaring on some bright bits. I was only three though so other
things tended to occupy my time.
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"charles" <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote in message news:5a253b4bc4charles@candehope.me.uk...

In article <iabmhhlsngkplpsuaggi5lfv27ltaf490m@4ax.com>,
Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

Yesterday one of my daughters was reading through a book of poetry by
Spike Milligan with the grandson, and that day of all days came upon
this one-

I went to Buckingham Palace
to try and see the Queen.
They said "Oh dear, she isn't here,"
but I saw where she had been.

I think we'll be seeing where she's been for many years. Sometimes a
poet can say it best.

It occurs to me that the second Elizabethan Age has also been
effectively the Age of Television, something which has been through
many changes and is probably in the process of going through one of
its biggest changes since it was invented. There's definitely a sort
of "end of an era" feel to all this.

According to one of the recent Jubilee programmes, it was the Queen who insisted her Coronation be on televsion. The establishment thought it
should remain a semi-secret ceremony.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

"Java Jive" <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote in message news:tffmnj$12tr1$1@dont-email.me...

On 09/09/2022 13:56, charles wrote:

Spike Milligan

There is a quiet little village near Rye on the Sussex/Kent border called Winchelsea. It used to be a major port in its day, but the harbour silted up, people moved away, and one of the striking things I remember about it
is that after you drove past the sign marking the border of the town, it
was some distance further before you saw any houses at all. Spike is
buried in the churchyard there, and part of the inscription on his
gravestone is in Welsh, which I couldn't possible attempt to remember, but supposedly it means: "I told you I was ill!"

One of the better photos: https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-the-grave-of-spike-milligan-in-the-churchyard-of-st-thomas-the-martyr-73728355.html

Irish Gaelic, isn't it? Given that Spike was Irish, he's have known the language. Harry Secombe is the one who would have known Welsh.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

"Java Jive" <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote in message news:tffmnj$12tr1$1@dont-email.me...

On 09/09/2022 13:56, charles wrote:

Spike Milligan

There is a quiet little village near Rye on the Sussex/Kent border called Winchelsea. It used to be a major port in its day, but the harbour silted up, people moved away, and one of the striking things I remember about it is that after you drove past the sign marking the border of the town, it was some distance further before you saw any houses at all. Spike is buried in the churchyard there, and part of the inscription on his gravestone is in Welsh, which I couldn't possible attempt to remember, but supposedly it means: "I told you I was ill!"

One of the better photos: https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-the-grave-of-spike-milligan-in-the-churchyard-of-st-thomas-the-martyr-73728355.html

Irish Gaelic, isn't it? Given that Spike was Irish, he's have known the language. Harry Secombe is the one who would have known Welsh.

I doubt if Milligan knew any Irish/Erse (he was born in India) nor did
Secombe knew any welsh.

--
Chris Green
·

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In message <jkjsui-o2qm2.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>, Chris Green <cl@isbd.net>
writes

NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

"Java Jive" <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:tffmnj$12tr1$1@dont-email.me...

On 09/09/2022 13:56, charles wrote:

Spike Milligan

There is a quiet little village near Rye on the Sussex/Kent border called >> > Winchelsea. It used to be a major port in its day, but the harbour silted >> > up, people moved away, and one of the striking things I remember about it >> > is that after you drove past the sign marking the border of the town, it >> > was some distance further before you saw any houses at all. Spike is
buried in the churchyard there, and part of the inscription on his
gravestone is in Welsh, which I couldn't possible attempt to remember, but >> > supposedly it means: "I told you I was ill!"

One of the better photos:

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-the-grave-of-spike-milligan-in-the-churchyard-of-st-thomas-the-martyr-73728355.html

Irish Gaelic, isn't it? Given that Spike was Irish, he's have known the
language. Harry Secombe is the one who would have known Welsh.

I doubt if Milligan knew any Irish/Erse (he was born in India) nor did >Secombe knew any welsh.

It's Irish Gaelic. The UK was being reluctant to recognise Spike's
British citizenship, but the Irish welcomed him with open arms.
--
Ian

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Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:

Irish Gaelic, isn't it? Given that Spike was Irish, he's have known the
language. Harry Secombe is the one who would have known Welsh.

I doubt if Milligan knew any Irish/Erse (he was born in India) nor did >Secombe knew any welsh.

It's Irish Gaelic. The UK was being reluctant to recognise Spike's
British citizenship, but the Irish welcomed him with open arms.

Erse is Irish/Gaelic and Milligan didn't speak it.

--
Chris Green
·

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On 09/09/2022 22:03, Chris Green wrote:

Erse is Irish/Gaelic and Milligan didn't speak it.

Countryfile visited Winchelsea when I was still resident in England,
leading to an "Oh! I remember that place!" moment. I'm pretty sure the presenter said it was Welsh.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 09/09/2022 22:03, Chris Green wrote:

Erse is Irish/Gaelic and Milligan didn't speak it.

You tend to find than many Irish and Scots will be able to say the odd
phrase - I always suspect that a great many of those ticking the Gaelic
box on the census in Scotland, can't manage much more than Slàinte Mhath
- ditto for similar in Northern Ireland and Wales.

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Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:

On 09/09/2022 22:03, Chris Green wrote:

Erse is Irish/Gaelic and Milligan didn't speak it.

Countryfile visited Winchelsea when I was still resident in England,
leading to an "Oh! I remember that place!" moment. I'm pretty sure the presenter said it was Welsh.

The presenter said what was Welsh?

If you mean the inscription on the headstone of his grave then, yes,
it's Gaelic (i.e. Erse, or Irish, all basically the same thing). He
didn't speak it though. The reason the inscription is in Gaelic is
that the local church authorities didn't want "I told you I was ill"
in plain English (well that's the story anyway).

--
Chris Green
·

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On Sat, 10 Sep 2022 08:53:56 +0100, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:

On 09/09/2022 22:03, Chris Green wrote:

Erse is Irish/Gaelic and Milligan didn't speak it.

You tend to find than many Irish and Scots will be able to say the odd
phrase - I always suspect that a great many of those ticking the Gaelic
box on the census in Scotland, can't manage much more than Slàinte Mhath
- ditto for similar in Northern Ireland and Wales.

It's a useful phrase though.

Rod.

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On 10/09/2022 09:06, Chris Green wrote:

Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:

On 09/09/2022 22:03, Chris Green wrote:

Erse is Irish/Gaelic and Milligan didn't speak it.

Countryfile visited Winchelsea when I was still resident in England,
leading to an "Oh! I remember that place!" moment. I'm pretty sure the
presenter said it was Welsh.

The presenter

... John Craven, BTW, I couldn't bring his name to mind yesterday
evening ...

said what was Welsh?

Obviously, the line of the inscription on his tomb that we're discussing.

If you mean the inscription on the headstone of his grave then, yes,
it's Gaelic (i.e. Erse, or Irish, all basically the same thing). He
didn't speak it though.

I'm no expert on the various flavours of Gaelic across the three nations
- five if you include Manx & Cornish, I know even less about those -
but my understanding is that, although, say, Irish Gaelic and Scottish
Gaelic speakers understand each other readily enough, they spell similar sounding words very differently, and consequently it should be possible
to say in which of them is the line of the inscription, although I
wouldn't be able to do this myself. As I said, I'm pretty sure John
Craven said it was in Welsh; I hope he was speaking on good authority,
but I suppose it could be that he was just repeating local rumour which
may or may not be correct.

The reason the inscription is in Gaelic is
that the local church authorities didn't want "I told you I was ill"
in plain English (well that's the story anyway).

Yes, that's my rather ridiculous recollection also!

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 10/09/2022 11:34, Java Jive wrote:

I'm no expert on the various flavours of Gaelic across the three nations
 -  five if you include Manx & Cornish, I know even less about those  -
 but my understanding is that, although, say, Irish Gaelic and Scottish Gaelic speakers understand each other readily enough, they spell similar sounding words very differently, and consequently it should be possible
to say in which of them is the line of the inscription, although I
wouldn't be able to do this myself.  As I said, I'm pretty sure John
Craven said it was in Welsh; I hope he was speaking on good authority,
but I suppose it could be that he was just repeating local rumour which
may or may not be correct.

So let's look it up and/or try to work it out ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spike_Milligan

"Death

The headstone of Spike Milligan's grave in the grounds of St Thomas' Winchelsea, East Sussex. The name of his last wife was added along with
birth and death dates and an additional epitaph. Spike Milligan's
epitaph includes the phrase Dúirt mé leat go raibh mé breoite, Irish for
"I told you I was ill".[69] The headstone is positioned roughly midway
between the New Inn and the church door.

Even late in life, Milligan's black humour had not deserted him. After
the death of Harry Secombe from cancer, he said, "I'm glad he died
before me, because I didn't want him to sing at my funeral." (A
recording of Secombe singing was played at Milligan's memorial service.)
He also wrote his own obituary, in which he stated repeatedly that he
"wrote the Goon Show and died".[70]

Milligan died from kidney failure, at the age of 83, on 27 February
2002, at his home near Rye, Sussex.[56] On the day of his funeral, 8
March 2002, his coffin was carried to St Thomas Church in Winchelsea,
East Sussex, and was draped in the flag of Ireland.[71] He had once
quipped that he wanted his headstone to bear the words "I told you I was
ill." He was buried at St Thomas' churchyard but the Chichester diocese
refused to allow this epitaph.[72] A compromise was reached with the
Gaelic translation of "I told you I was ill", Dúirt mé leat go raibh mé breoite and in English, "Love, light, peace". The additional epitaph Grá
mhór ort Shelagh can be read as "Great love for you Shelagh".

According to a letter published in the Rye and Battle Observer in 2011, Milligan's headstone was removed from St Thomas' churchyard in
Winchelsea and moved to be alongside the grave of his wife,[73] but was
later returned.[74]"

... but, unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be quite the last word,
because there is also a photo of the gravestone, and the inscription
doesn't actually match what is stated above ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spike_Milligan#/media/File:Spike_Milligan's_gravestone.jpg

"Dúirt mé leat go mé breoite"

... which I agree looks like Irish Gaelic, but then I wouldn't know what
the Welsh would look like anyway. However, there are ways of finding
such things out ...

Irish Gaelic:

https://www.google.com/search?q=translate+english+to+Irish+Gaelic&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

"I told you I was ill" -> "Dúirt mé leat go raibh mé tinn"

Scottish Gaelic:

https://www.google.com/search?q=translate+english+to+Scottish+Gaelic&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

"I told you I was ill" -> "Thuirt mi ribh gu robh mi tinn"

Welsh:

https://www.google.com/search?q=translate+english+to+welsh&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8

"I told you I was ill" -> "Dywedais wrthych fy mod yn sâl"

So while I am proved right about the differences in spelling, John
Craven is proved wrong about the line in the actual inscription, the
Irish translation is easily the closest to it, so that's what it must be.

--

Fake news kills!

I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
www.macfh.co.uk

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 09/09/2022 22:03, Chris Green wrote:

Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:

Irish Gaelic, isn't it? Given that Spike was Irish, he's have known the >>>> language. Harry Secombe is the one who would have known Welsh.

I doubt if Milligan knew any Irish/Erse (he was born in India) nor did
Secombe knew any welsh.

It's Irish Gaelic. The UK was being reluctant to recognise Spike's
British citizenship, but the Irish welcomed him with open arms.

Erse is Irish/Gaelic and Milligan didn't speak it.

The BBC website says it is Gaelic, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/southern_counties/3742443.stm
and then mentions his Irish passport, so the inference is it is Irish
Gaelic.

Google Translate reckons it is Irish.

Jim

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Indy Jess John <bathwatchdog@omitthisgooglemail.com> wrote:

On 09/09/2022 22:03, Chris Green wrote:

Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:

Irish Gaelic, isn't it? Given that Spike was Irish, he's have known the >>>> language. Harry Secombe is the one who would have known Welsh.

I doubt if Milligan knew any Irish/Erse (he was born in India) nor did >>> Secombe knew any welsh.

It's Irish Gaelic. The UK was being reluctant to recognise Spike's
British citizenship, but the Irish welcomed him with open arms.

Erse is Irish/Gaelic and Milligan didn't speak it.

The BBC website says it is Gaelic, http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/southern_counties/3742443.stm
and then mentions his Irish passport, so the inference is it is Irish
Gaelic.

Google Translate reckons it is Irish.

Yes, but the original point was that although Spike was Irish he
didn't speak any Gaelic/Irish/Erse (whatever you fancy calling it).

--
Chris Green
·

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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In message <tfhfqj$1b3bi$1@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> writes

On 09/09/2022 22:03, Chris Green wrote:

Erse is Irish/Gaelic and Milligan didn't speak it.

You tend to find than many Irish and Scots will be able to say the odd
phrase - I always suspect that a great many of those ticking the Gaelic
box on the census in Scotland, can't manage much more than Slàinte
Mhath - ditto for similar in Northern Ireland and Wales.

On my many trips to the RoI, in twenty years I only ever heard Irish
being spoken 'naturally' on two occasions. Once was while sitting on a
seat in a park in Cork (when two guys walked past talking in it), and
another near Kildare (when one of the guys I was working with was
holding a conversation on a brick-sized mobile phone).
--
Ian

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In message <n9msui-e60n2.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu>, Chris Green <cl@isbd.net>
writes

Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:

Irish Gaelic, isn't it? Given that Spike was Irish, he's have known the >> >> language. Harry Secombe is the one who would have known Welsh.

I doubt if Milligan knew any Irish/Erse (he was born in India) nor did
Secombe knew any welsh.

It's Irish Gaelic. The UK was being reluctant to recognise Spike's
British citizenship, but the Irish welcomed him with open arms.

Erse is Irish/Gaelic and Milligan didn't speak it.

No - but it was sort-of his final joke. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spike_Milligan#Nationality
--
Ian

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On 10/09/2022 15:15, Chris Green wrote:

Indy Jess John <bathwatchdog@omitthisgooglemail.com> wrote:

On 09/09/2022 22:03, Chris Green wrote:

Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:

Irish Gaelic, isn't it? Given that Spike was Irish, he's have known the >>>>>> language. Harry Secombe is the one who would have known Welsh.

I doubt if Milligan knew any Irish/Erse (he was born in India) nor did >>>>> Secombe knew any welsh.

It's Irish Gaelic. The UK was being reluctant to recognise Spike's
British citizenship, but the Irish welcomed him with open arms.

Erse is Irish/Gaelic and Milligan didn't speak it.

The BBC website says it is Gaelic,
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/southern_counties/3742443.stm
and then mentions his Irish passport, so the inference is it is Irish
Gaelic.

Google Translate reckons it is Irish.

Yes, but the original point was that although Spike was Irish he
didn't speak any Gaelic/Irish/Erse (whatever you fancy calling it).

He was already dead by the time the Gaelic inscription was thought of,
so somebody else created it, not him.

Jim

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On 10/09/2022 16:12, Ian Jackson wrote:

In message <tfhfqj$1b3bi$1@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> writes

On 09/09/2022 22:03, Chris Green wrote:

Erse is Irish/Gaelic and Milligan didn't speak it.

You tend to find than many Irish and Scots will be able to say the odd
phrase - I always suspect that a great many of those ticking the
Gaelic box on the census in Scotland, can't manage much more than
Slàinte Mhath - ditto for similar in Northern Ireland and Wales.

On my many trips to the RoI, in twenty years I only ever heard Irish
being spoken 'naturally' on two occasions. Once was while sitting on a
seat in a park in Cork (when two guys walked  past talking in it), and another near Kildare (when one of the guys I was working with was
holding a conversation on a brick-sized mobile phone).

But there are signs the Irish are following the Welsh in using the
language as a way of giving an edge in getting jobs*. Ireland gives
extra points in recruitment to those who are fluent; and legislation
requires by 2030 20% of recruits to be fluent.

* https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-57776429



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

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On 10/09/2022 16:12, Ian Jackson wrote:

On my many trips to the RoI, in twenty years I only ever heard Irish
being spoken 'naturally' on two occasions. Once was while sitting on a
seat in a park in Cork (when two guys walked past talking in it), and another near Kildare (when one of the guys I was working with was
holding a conversation on a brick-sized mobile phone).

I know Gaelic speakers but I have never Gaelic being spoken in the
street here in the Highlands (hear regularly just about every other
language!).


Only heard it on the street on some of the Western Isles.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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In article <tfid4q$1gsg3$1@dont-email.me>,
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:

On 10/09/2022 16:12, Ian Jackson wrote:

On my many trips to the RoI, in twenty years I only ever heard Irish
being spoken 'naturally' on two occasions. Once was while sitting on a
seat in a park in Cork (when two guys walked past talking in it), and another near Kildare (when one of the guys I was working with was
holding a conversation on a brick-sized mobile phone).

I know Gaelic speakers but I have never Gaelic being spoken in the
street here in the Highlands (hear regularly just about every other language!).

Only heard it on the street on some of the Western Isles.

I was asked by a waitress in a hotel on North Uist whether I spoke Gaelic.
She wanted to say something rude about the Italian visitors on the next
table. It had to wait until the visitors had left the room.

I have an acquaintance (living in Lewis) who says her dog is bilingual. At home the dog is instructed in Gaelic, but if it's staying with a friend
it's in English.

--
from KT24 in Surrey, England - sent from my RISC OS 4té
"I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

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On 10/09/2022 17:33, charles wrote:

I have an acquaintance (living in Lewis) who says her dog is bilingual. At home the dog is instructed in Gaelic, but if it's staying with a friend
it's in English.

My Welsh cousin's dog was bilingual, I still remember some of Welsh
commands used.

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On 10/09/2022 17:33, charles wrote:

I have an acquaintance (living in Lewis) who says her dog is bilingual. At home the dog is instructed in Gaelic, but if it's staying with a friend
it's in English.

On that basis my dog only knows a language that is unknown to me.

Bill

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On 10/09/2022 04:33 pm, Robin wrote:> On 10/09/2022 16:12, Ian Jackson wrote:>>> Chris Green wrote:

Erse is Irish/Gaelic and Milligan didn't speak it.

You tend to find than many Irish and Scots will be able to say the
odd phrase - I always suspect that a great many of those ticking the
Gaelic box on the census in Scotland, can't manage much more than
Slàinte Mhath - ditto for similar in Northern Ireland and Wales.

On my many trips to the RoI, in twenty years I only ever heard Irish
being spoken 'naturally' on two occasions. Once was while sitting on a
seat in a park in Cork (when two guys walked  past talking in it), and
another near Kildare (when one of the guys I was working with was
holding a conversation on a brick-sized mobile phone).

But there are signs the Irish are following the Welsh in using the
language as a way of giving an edge in getting jobs*.  Ireland gives
extra points in recruitment to those who are fluent; and legislation
requires by 2030 20% of recruits to be fluent.

* https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-57776429

That has been the case - to my knowledge - for at least fifty years.

The prized jobs of Garda constable or civil service clerical officers
required a pass in Irish as far back as the 1960s. And probably for some
time before that.

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